A passenger on a 10-hour Lufthansa flight ran into a “Karen” seatmate seated behind her who demanded that she not recline. Here’s how she should have handed it.
“Lufthansa Karen” Demands That Passenger In Front Of Her Is Not Allowed To Recline Seat On 10-Hour Flight
A young traveler named Taylor asks a simple question and a good one on TikTok:
“Ya’ll this girl just shoved my seat forward and said I’m not allowed to recline for my 10 hour flight because it’s too much for her. What do I do?”
You might be tempted to curse her out or slam your seat back (perhaps waiting until she has been served a beverage). Perhaps you wish to engage with her and explain why you have the right to recline your seat, just as she does. Maybe you just want to ignore her.
But those are not good ideas.
Since Taylor asked how she should handle it, my advice would have been to immediately press the flight attendant call button located in the passenger service unit overhead.
Calmly tell a flight attendant what is going on and ask that this passenger be instructed not to touch your seat and also that reclining is permitted (and reasonable).
That has the dual effect of such instruction coming from a position of authority but also putting the flight attendants on notice that a problematic passenger may pose trouble later on. This is the sort of passenger who might start kicking or kneeing the seat later in the flight.
I call the lady a Karen because it is unreasonable under any condition to slam up the seat of the person seated in front of you. While I do understand that reasonable minds may disagree on whether you should recline your seat, the fact that these seats are designed to recline and have a button enabling recline proves definitively that you can indeed recline…at least when meals are not being served.
I realize that for passengers of size (both tall and wide), sitting in economy class can be very uncomfortable. Fortunately, there are alternative options including buying multiple seats (up to three at no additional cost on Southwest Airlines) or purchasing a premium cabin seat.
CONCLUSION
While we can always debate whether you should or should not recline your seat, you have no right to touch my seat if I should choose to recline. If you have a problem with that, try walking or buying first class.
Bottom line: don’t engage Karens like this because it probably won’t end well. If someone starts shoving your seat, quickly hit your flight attendant call button.
image: @tfutchh / Instagram
If someone reclines into me when I’m in coach I’d love not to touch their seat. Unfortunately I’m 6’4″ so both their back and my knees are going to hurt because there’s simply no place else for my knees to go. That’s why I always attempt to buy up to extra legroom seats but sometimes it just doesn’t happen. That said, I don’t think this entitled brat has that problem and if she can’t handle the emotional stress of a person reclining then she needs better meds.
10 hr flight, a seat is being reclined. So either book Premium or business, behind the first exit row as these seats don’t recline, or suck it up. You are not a Prince.
Exactly. I do suck it up and just deal. I’m simply saying that the person in front who’s reclining will get my knees in their back because I can’t put my knees anywhere else. What about this do you not understand?
@Christian … good points . However , anyone with issues ought to speak with the manager at the check-in counter . That’s what I do , as I am disabled , and they usually make it smooth sailing . Yet , @Sam is correct in not choosing coach in the first place .
As I said I try to buy up where possible. A hundred bucks for an eit row or bulkhead seat is a no-brainer. Problem is, sometimes the exit row or bulkhead seats are blocked or taken and the buy up to the better cabin is four figures, which is too rich for my blood.
If you don’t have enough space then you needed to book a bulkhead seat or another seat.
Your fault for not getting a seat suitable for your size. It’s NOT the passenger in front of you that needs to deal with UOUR probkems
Yes, that’s what they said. Who are you arguing with?
@Sam … you are correct , and I try to book a better seat up front . Yet @Christian also has a point , but the problem is caused by the airlines installing too many seats too close together . 707s and 747s never had these problems .
These problems are not new. With the regulated mainline carriers, yeah, rarely a big problem. But my dad was a dyed in the wool bargain hunter. While the US market was still regulated, he’d book my family onto charter flights to/from and in Europe. DC-8s, DC-10s, Comets, VC-10s, 707s, 747s…it didn’t matter. They were all tight and uncomfortable. My personal favorite hellscape was the seating on Martinair Holland DC-10s. The seat map was 2-5-2, with the middle seat of the middle seat set being 2″ narrower than the other seats. My dad, ever the skinflint, bought us all those middle seats, so we all sat in a column, shoved in these horrible middle seats. It was awful. On the other hand, seats were only $199 each…in 1979.
Unfortunately that is not how life works. If I’m too tall for you to recline back then it is both of our problem.
I think people your height should get a free upgrade to Econ plus. There are not that many people 6″2 or above. Regular econ should be at least 32 inches, but if they don’t have that econ plus shouldn’t cost as much as it does. It usually costs a lot more than regular econ. They also give some of the plus seats away to status people which is bad.
But you can touch the touchscreen IFE in front of you. It sometimes feels awkward but proper etiquette is to at least inform the passenger when you’re about to recline so they’re prepared for it (ie make sure they’re not using their laptop.) Also, during meal service, please do not recline your seat!
Problems like this would be reduced if the airlines presented a safety and manner video similar to what some Japanese airlines show. A great example is from JTA – one of Japan Airline’s leisure airlines.
@matthew I was in a similar’ish situation which I will relay below and I am curious what I should have done at the time.
I was flying ORD-PDX in AA First Class, after taking my seat, the child seated behind me started to kick my seat fairly hard. I tolerated the first few kicks figuring that the child might settle down in a few minutes, but as the kicking continued, I got up, turned around and politely asked the Father if he could do stop his child from kicking my seat.
I should note at this point that I was always told that an adult should never directly address another person’s child and instead address the parent involves their child. As my wife and I do not have children (it did not work out for us), I have always addressed the parent when I had an issue involving their child.
The Father said excuse me, I replied politely, you son is kicking my seat, would it be possible to stop him from doing that for the rest of the flight.
The Father looked me, then looked at his child, then looked at me again and asked, who is the adult? I said I do not understand and the Father replied, clearly my son is the adult, because a grown ass man is afraid to ask him to stop kicking his seat.
At this point, I cut off the conversation, rang the FA call button and waited for the FA. The FA comes by asks what I need, I explain that the child behind me is kickiny my seat and the Father is refusing to control his child. The FA says, I do not get paid enough to handle inter-passenger issues, so I am going to give the two of you two choices.
1) Solve the issue amongst yourselves
2) As we have not left the gate yet, I will ask to have the Police called and the Police can handle it.
So what will it be?
I said, I do not think the Police are necessary and we can handle it, she said fine, no more issues or I will call the Police and she walked away.
My seatmate (a perfect stranger) said good luck, that Father sounds like a complete asshole.
The rest of the flight went without incident, upon deplaning the Father looks at me and says you must feel like a big man needing a women’s help to stop some seatback kicking.
I ignored him, deplaned and went about my business, but what is one supposed to do if the FA does not want to get involved? Let the Police be called over seatback kicking?
Switch seats with the dad!
As The Dude would say, far out. I’m right now asking whether I’d call the bluff and ask for the police to be called. I’m that much of a dork about it at this point in my life.
My story is similar: I reclined my seat VERY gently and a German puschfrau SCREAMED at the top of her lungs “PUT YOUR SEAT BACK” and violently kicked my seat. Perhaps she was tall and it was uncomfortable but sheesh, couldn’t she be more mature about it? I simply put my seat up for the rest of the flight and let it go. My wife offered to switch seats with me. My opinion is that if someone has a “disability”, it’s on them to communicate it and reasonable people (such as myself) will honor it but sheesh, does one need to throw tantrums like this? I shouldn’t need to signal what I’m doing at all times to avoid, quite frankly, offending snowflakes. The seats recline and if I do so slowly, and at appropriate times, I shouldn’t need to ask permission like some blushing violet.
Germans have been at times the most polite people I have ever met and at other times, the rudest.
I think it’s appropriate to recline when I’m about to sleep which is what I do and that should be ok. The rest of the time I leave it upright for my own comfort to watch TV, read, or eat. If you’re in economy, you don’t deserve to be a jerk about it. Buy a business class or bulkhead seat.
I love Matt’s blog because he writes cool stuff but for me, I view a business class seat as 2 seats I could buy relatives to come and visit. Luxury for me is an interesting situation: I love to take care of others. Someone in an economy class seat traveling for the first time in their life for me, is a luxury. The look on their face at the airport is priceless.
I had a bit of an opposite experience with a much more proactive and professional FA last week flying on Air France on their A350-900 (which has quite a high degree of recline). After I put my seat back the guy behind me started banging hard on my seatback and I ignored him. He then tapped me on the head and told me to put my seat upright and I responded that I would not and that he should consider asking the FA to move him. He called the FA who complained that I was reclining my seat. The very professional FA asked me if I would consider moving back to the empty last row – near the toilet – and I responded that as she is an FA and I am a passenger that I would follow any of her instructions to me, but that I was within my rights and should not have to move because the person behind me makes aggressive demands and acts in an childish manner and that she should be asking him to move. She did ask him, and the guy refused to move or to swap seats with his wife so that he wasn’t behind me. The FA then said, take your bag and come with me, and brought me to Premium Economy where I sat for the rest of the flight. She defused the situation and made everybody “happy” (although to be candid I thought she had handed the guy behind me a victory for being a childish bully). Many US based FA’s can’t be bothered and often lack the people skills for a situation like this . . . as your story amply demonstrates.
@Interested Traveller: That’s CRAZY! I’m going to write about it.
@matthew, feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Call the FA and let them be judge, jury, and executioner. It’s accepted that 4 hours or less you do not recline. Anything longer recline away.
It’s “accepted?” Accepted by whom?
I love that bimbo’s big fake lips. Sexy.
The chance that this actually happened is near zilch. Look at the setup, her photo shoot at the airport and then the video. It’s fake, meant to get attention and tiktok followers. Can we please ignore this and not give these people a platform.
10 hours, Recline allowed, and expected.
That’s probably Europe to US, or similar. Plane will be bigger with a bit more leg room, but either way, recline expected.
If it was LAX to SFO, MCI to DFW, or even JFK to DFW before 10 pm, no, just don’t recline–even though you have a right, technically. But 10 hours.
ZZZZZZZZ…
I would bet anything that the complaining passenger had HER seat reclined.
I reclined on a flight from CDG to IAD on Air France and the man in front of me was reclined. An average sized girl in her 20’s behind me asked the flight attendant to tell me to put my seat up and she did. I didn’t want to make a scene but I was so pissed.
On what basis? Was it during meal service?
I thought your immediate advise would have been to follow your lead and taunt the aggressor with a racist and sexist characterization. Always amazed how the woke find labeling white women absolutely acceptable.
Dear Madame, I am 78 years old and still stand 6’4 inches tall. I was in the Air Force and later worked for a major bank. I have flown more miles than most people can imagine. There is an edecutte required, only for a few hours, when flying. If you cannot abide by that etticute then drive or pay for two seats!