I may be a glutton for punishment, but would never voluntarily choose a middle seat in the middle section in the last row of an aircraft, especially on an 11-hour flight from Los Angeles to Munich.
But that’s exactly where I ended up this week, and I am searching for answers…
My business partner, John, and took a brief trip to Europe last week. As is often the case, there was only one first class award seat available and business class was fully booked.
This has happened so many times this year and I’ve always deferred to John’s wish to fly first class. It hasn’t been pure generosity, because I usually end up flying on United…I have to re-qualify for my status somehow and you don’t earn any miles when you redeem points.
For whatever reason (and for the life of me, I really question my sanity), I did not feel like making extra stops and playing the upgrade waitlist game. So I did what I suppose most of the world does and just booked a ticket in Lufthansa economy class.
(yes, business class or premium economy would have been a fine compromise, but both cabins were sold out)
The one thing that sealed the deal is that I would be able to visit first class lounges with John, since he was in first class and we were traveling together. A nice steak can make up for a long flight…
And I had survived a similar flight earlier this year, albeit in a window seat with an open middle.
> Read More: Lufthansa A380 Economy Class Los Angeles To Frankfurt Review
> Read More: What I Did AFTER I Flew Lufthansa Economy Class…
From Tolerable to Intolerable
I checked in online and assigned myself an aisle seat in the middle of the economy class cabin, 81C.
When we arrived at LAX, we proceeded to the first class check-in counter so an escort could take us through security and to the aircraft.
Much to my dismay, when they checked my passport the agent informed me that I was not checked in for the flight! It was now just 30 minutes from departure (yes, we cut it close in LA…)
I showed the agent my mobile boarding pass…how could I have received this if I did not check in?
She had no answer.
But she said it was now too late for me to check-in.
I insisted upon speaking to a supervisor, who finally overrode the system and checked me back in. We were now 20 minutes from scheduled departure.
Our escort led us through security and to the gate, which featured a biometric scanner. Thus, my passport and boarding pass were not checked or scanned.
> Read More: Lufthansa Boards A380 in 20 Minutes with Biometric Boarding
Onboard, I found a man in my seat, 81C. I asked if he was in the right seat and he said yes. Rather than argue, I asked a flight attendant for assistance and handed her my mobile phone.
She demanded the man in 81C produce his boarding pass. He did…and it also said 81C.
Small problem: by this time, the aircraft door had closed.
Our flight to Munich was nearly full and after looking at her iPad and performing a visual inspection of the cabin, the flight attendant informed me there were no aisle or window seats open.
No kidding…
I asked if there were any no-shows in premium economy and was told that both premium economy and business class were full.
The flight attendant motioned for me to sit down in an open middle seat in row 94, the last row of the A380 lower deck.
#torture
After the safety video, a male flight attendant came by and said my seat had somehow been officially re-assigned to 88B, a bulkhead middle seat. But he added:
There is an infant in row 88. I’m sure you don’t want to sit there. You can, but the bassinet will protrude into your space. I don’t think it will be comfortable for you. I recommend you stay here.
I sensed passive aggressiveness based on his tone, but thought about how much I would have valued an open middle seat if traveling with an infant so I decided to stay.
It certainly was not the flight crew’s fault my seat was re-assigned. But I just hated that they really didn’t care…they did not even offer an apology.
A Long Flight
We took off I braced myself for a long flight. I’ve reviewed Lufthansa’s A380 economy class before, but this was a whole new experience.
Legroom: horrible. Recline: limited. But worst of all was sitting in between other passengers with virtually no shoulder space and everyone fighting for the armrest.
Not to be overly dramatic, but I clearly understand why most people hate flying. I could not sleep a wink on this flight. There was nowhere to turn, nowhere to stretch, and nowhere to find a remotely comfortable position. I’m only 6’1″…
Dinner and breakfast were exactly the same thing that was served when I took this flight last May. Greasy and not very tasty, I find the food in United economy class much better.
The A380 has no power plugs in economy class, though I knew that going in and brought a back-up powerbank to keep my laptop charged. Thank goodness for that and for functioning wi-fi, though my screen had to remain half-closed in order for me to use it when the person in front of me reclined his seat.
CONCLUSION
What a joy it was to get off that flight. Flying in economy class is one thing. Flying in the last row in a middle seat on a transatlantic flight is a whole other matter.
Was it worth avoiding extra connections? No way.
Lufthansa, you really let me down.
Shouldn’t your business partner have ‘shared’ with you? I don’t mean to pass judgement on a situation I’m not fully familiar with but if there was 1 first class seat left on you volunteered yourself in economy, (and then ended up with the worst seat in the house), shouldn’t he have let you rest in first class for a few hours at the end of the flight?
Lufthansa doesn’t take kindly to sharing a premium seat. I think on United it would have been no problem. But what a bad flight…it truly surprised me how bad it was.
That’s really strange. I fly BA all the time and I’ve never had a problem sharing with someone. It’s not something I like to do (I’d rather take two premium economy seats if I’m travelling with someone than one Y one J) but I wonder why it’s a problem?
Reminds me of a time I flew in the last row of ANA F from NRT to the US, my dad was in business class and the flight attendant literally stopped him from even coming to my seat to ask me a question about something on arrival, let alone switch seats altogether
I had the same problem a couple of years ago also. I selected a window seat by the window. The seat was taken and I was told, that I have to sit in the middle on the last row. The seat did not recline at all and the armrests were stationary. When I had to get up, I had to clime over the armrest. It was very upsetting, but I had to be in Frankfurt in the morning! There was not a friendly face in sight. Thank goodness I was not hungry…
I see you are a very big fan of United. Probably it is worth the effort to kiss their asses. Well, I traveled this year from Budapest to Honolulu (2 segments Lufthansa or Swiss and the last with UA). For us UA was the worst experience, comparable with jokes like Ryanair. Water and some prepacked unidentified junk food on first flight, and 5 hours delay with no explanations on return flight. Oh, yes, they offered us one piece of 10 usd woucher for the 5 hour delay. Good enough to buy nothing in an US airport. And in my humble opinion, the food on Lufthansa and Swiss flights was well above than UA. But I must mention that I never eat burgers, so we might have different tastes. The only thing I agree with you is the torture of a long flight in a middle seat. But that cannot be connected with an flight company name. All are the same
Sending food and drink back would be fair game, no?
The wife and daughter were in Business Class on Air Canada to LHR while I was in Economy as there were only 2 seats remainomg. . My daughter brought some of her courses that she did not eat to me and the FA sternly warned my wife that she was not allowed to do that.
Lufthansa has earned my wrath. I purchased a round trip economy ticket BOS-WAW-BOS via FRA for my cousin who has done that trip annually. She was hospitalized while in Poland and could not return on the original date. I advised LH immediately and was advised to provide documentation for rebooking without penalty. I checked daily for approval. 4 days later I had no choice but to book a full fare, one way ticket at $2081 assuming it would be refunded once the medical document was processed. BIG, EXPENSIVE MISTAKE. When my cousin checked in in Warsaw on the new departure date, there were TWO return reservations on the same flight. The confused agent called over her supervisor and they decided to keep my money from BOTH tickets. Dealing with their customer service was defeating. First of all there is no phone contact whatsoever. Feedback only. Frustrating, repetitive and eventually pointless. Btw I enrolled my cousin in Lufthansa’s frequent flyer program 3 times. She has yet to receive a card or credit for the miles she has logged with them. Even their reservations department will keep you on hold for 2 hours 45 minutes to check in. It became a game of “Survivor “. LH outlasted, outwitted and finally defeated me. They are truly VILE and DISHONEST.
Been there, done that… when will airlines wake up that we don’t want to be squashed in like sardines… Yes,beancounters have ruined International travel and their product is awful.
I had the same experience on a Lufthansa flight from Frankfurt to Vancouver last week and not looking forward to the return flight.
You ,sir a lucky one – I was flying from NJ to Munich and like you said united was fine comparing to crap of Lufthansa ,anyway traveling with my wife and 2 kids 6-7 yo ,long story to bit shorter story – missed my connecting flight in Munich cause they changed gate in terminal 2 from 19 to …81! What ? No announcement ,no nothing ,missed it ,that’s all they would not let me on the plane ,there was still 12 minutes to depart ,no help on airport from Lufthansa or nobody else ,they tried to rebook me for $ 1300!!! Took train for $340 for all 4 of us ,simple 13 hr ride …got to my destination ,great right ? Not really ,when show up on airport to fly back to Munich and then to Newark ,we were not on the list ! What ? Apparently Lufthansa canceled all my 4 tickets cause we didn’t take plane in Munich 3 weeks earlier ,said they can rebook us for $12000 yes 12 thousand to first class ,just went on Expedia and bought us $2400 tickets for next day ,now I dont even know who to talk to ,Lufthansa offered $500 ,what? Trying better business bureau but still not answer ,not in my lifetime I will go back on Lufthansa airplane
That’s a real nightmare. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I went over to Chengdu, China a couple of weeks ago on a half empty A350 with a full 3 seats for little old me and had the bizarre luck to have the exact same situation coming back yesterday from Jinan, China to LAX. Going home and play the
Lottery this afternoon.
We left Istanbul on September 23rd. to fly to Frankfurt with Lufthansa. We left the gate late for an unknown reason to the passengers.
Before we could get to Frankfurt the plane engines became very quiet. The pilot came on and said that we were going to Stuttgart because there was a thunderstorm in Frankfurt and that the airport was closed. Once they got more information we would be on our way and in the mean time they would refuel in Stuttgart.
We no sooner got refueled and we were on our way. We landed in Frankfurt , and made our to a Lufthansa desk because we had missed our connecting flight to Toronto.There was no one around to help direct us to that desk. Once we got there we all lined up , with only two people at the desk to help. It took between 15 to 30 minutes for each group to get new flights and a hotel and food voucher. We were lined up for a very long time.
Now we needed to stay overnight, come back to the airport, fly to Munich and then on to Toronto..
What we did find out was that there had never been a closing of the Frankfurt Airport due to a Thunder storm. So what was all that about.?
Frankfurt Airport is very difficult to get around in and needs better signage or personnel to help you along the way through the very long hallways and stairs. Lufthansa needs to put in more staff when things go wrong.
Dramatic, much?
You didn’t get bumped, you didn’t get water spilled on you, you didn’t get yelled at by crew, you didn’t miss a connection, you….
You get what you pay for.
Sorry, Sonny. Life is hard then you lose status.
Before you jump on me –
*G, 73 flights in the last 180 days. Flew F, J, Y and basic economy on six different airlines, bother domestic and Intel (TATL, TPAC)
How dare you compared yourself, a common worker to an entitled snowflake! How dare you! Climate change! How dare you!
I think you are the dramatic one, dear. She had a problem she felt was representative of her LH experience and might be useful to share with others, used relatively unemotional language to describe the issues and suggested some resolutions.
And no one gives a s**t about your 73 flights in six months. Lightweight.
I fly economy 3x yr and prefer Lufthansa for on time, good food and nice staff. During the Iceland Volcano problem UA erased my return MUC to LAX. I had no record of ticket. Efficient Lufthansa ticketer believed me and was not going to leave me stranded. Free ticket home. I always prefer Lufthansa now.
You need to check in in person for international flight because the airline wants to make sure your passport isn’t expired. Otherwise they’re on the hook to get you back to your country of departure.
That’s just not true, I’ve used mobile boarding pass for dozens of international flights. The passport can be scanned at the gate. Furthermore, some like United now have scanning capabilities right in their app, so you never need to hand your passport to anyone in the US.
It depends on the destination- you are both right! I have had both experiences, where they allow me to use my scanned passport to check in the night before (for instance to the EU) and where they won’t- like Tunisia (no visa required for either). It just depends!
Either way- what a misery flying in economy has become for the average person. It makes me wonder how much people will suffer for a cheap ticket that just gets them there- though that person is obviously not as likely to be a road warrior who travels a lot and gets sick of planes!
By not handing my passport to CBP(I’m without global entry) I am unable to return to my country. I am very much for handing my passport to someone in the US if it means getting me home.
At least for international flights departing the USA, that’s not the case. You can check-in online (I’ve done so many times with no issues), but you are required to present your passport to an agent for inspection. This can be done at the gate.
I am not an air traveller but I got a bit of gist in terms of thoroughly preparing myself before embarking on an international flight because I might be surprised but unforseen circumstances. Thanks for all the deliberations ladies and gentlemen
Goodness take the connection – thanks for sharing
Matthew, I’m very sorry that you suffered middle seat at the last row, that is invariably the worst seat on any plane. As a 6’2″ man, I feel your pain. I’ve been in that situation a handful of times, and once on a transatlantic. I don’t travel for business much and don’t have “status” like you, but I still generally fly about once a month and have done so for about the last 15 years so I know the ins and outs of air travel, and all the hell that goes with it, and all that can go wrong. I’ve only flown Lufthansa a handful of times but it was always pleasant and efficient and in general I prefer European carriers (e.g., Swiss, British Airways, etc) to American ones because I think they offer a better overall experience. I’m surprised as a status member that the employees didn’t essentially kiss your a$$ more??!! I always thought airlines catered to their business clients with an elite status. It does seem that the largest issue here is a check in glitch. I’ve had that plenty of times, apps and online check-in certainly is not perfect. I’m sure you are kicking yourself now, but not showing up until 30 minutes before, regardless of online check-in, seems the biggest issue. I’m surprised you got luggage in, unless you didn’t check any, most airlines have a cut off for baggage for 45 minutes domestic and often 90-120 minutes for international, but it is airport-specific. I think the other take home is there are no guarantees, Alaska once gave up my chosen seat from the reservation because I chose to check in at the airport versus online at home, 24 hours ahead. It definitely makes a difference how the crew responds, I once had the last row in American when a Delta flight was cancelled, but the crew was awesome and was so nice and just kept pouring the wine! I’m curious if you reached out to Lufthansa or United for everything that went wrong, especially as a status member. I would think at a minimum, Lufthansa should apologize (at least for double assigning the seat) and offer you miles as compensation, e.g. 20,000 or something.
That sucks. Sorry about that… however I always say the only way to truly appreciate flying premium up in the air is to fly in economy. I don’t mind flying in economy but I agree with you that it’s a different experience when the flight is full and you’re sitting in the middle seat next to strangers. It looked like you had good legroom though. I’m surprised you even attempted to work w/your laptop given how cramped the space is. Hopefully the flight back home will be better.
I’m curious though — what do you think happened with your online checkin? I just find it bizarre that that happened.
In this case i need to be honest what you might have done wrong.
The main reason was probably that you arrived at the check-in counters after check-in deadline, I assumed the system canceled your acceptance and seat automatically. Theoretically passengers lose their seats and right to travel if they arrive at check-in counter after check-in deadline.
I find it rather surprising that you arrived at LAX check-in counters 30 minutes before departure…no good.
So make sure to arrive at the airport earlier next time to avoid surprises.
These longhaul experiences are why some people (myself, at least) get involved in the miles hobby to begin with! I can’t afford premium cash tickets on leisure travel, so even with my infrequent flying, it is worth the time to self-educate to avoid the back of the bus. It can be BAD. … I once had the same “you didn’t checkin, despite having a BP” thing happen on AA, PHL-YYZ. Was told that online checkin, even having provided passport number in the process, had been nullified because they needed to inspect the passport in person (US Citizen). Luckily they were calling my name over the loudspeaker system before check-in closed .
You are now truly my HERO.
I empathize with the situation, but why would you arrive at the airport 30 mins before an international flight? Isn’t that asking for trouble. I know that you were expecting to have your seat based on the app check in, but I’ve had this problem before when the GA decides to play God and switch your seat for the convenience of others or pulls you off if you haven’t boarded.
In my experience, LH F is great, but J and Y are poor compared to their rivals.
Welcome to the back of the bus!
Your experience shows why I’ve never been particularly impressed with LH, my recent F experience notwithstanding. The indifference bordering on hostility has been a constant in my deep coach experiences with them.
The breakfast doesn’t look that bad, but the four measly tater tots seem to reflect the experience as a whole.
I agree showing up earlier than 30 minutes before departure could conceivably have helped the situation, but it doesn’t sound like you had any reason to believe you would not have the seat you’d selected during flight check-in.
The airline throwing away your selected seat without warning is definitely not OK, but it seems we hear more and more about this sort of thing. I think you’ve written yourself about it happening to others. I recall it happened to my mom and me right about the same time it happened to a celebrity who didn’t handle the situation nearly as well as you did.
If I were faced with eleven hours in a last-row middle seat between other passengers I knew would have trouble leaving me a full seat’s worth of space, and IF I had some flexibility, I would be tempted to say “Thanks for offering this seat, but since my selected seat is not available, I ask that you please rebook me on another flight.”
Guuuuurl, please – I sympathize, but you’re being too dramatic. This is what economy is flying is like for the vast majority of people. You get a seat, you have some calories and hydration, and there may be some form of video entertainment, and you are flown from one place to another safely and faster than any other form of transportation. Sometimes, it’s a little better than average (maybe you have a great meal, or nobody is sitting next to you) and sometimes it’s worse, but you seemed to have a pretty standard economy experience.
What I just still can’t understand, is how you are still sticked with Star Alliance, United and Lufthansa… LH first must be amazing, I admit. I have never had the opportunity to try it. But LH economy is terrible. The flight attendants are always arrogant, cold, I feel myself as ‘self-loading cargo’, not as a passenger. LH business is nothing to get excited about, mediocre at best. I just decided I won’t fly an airline which treats 99% of their passengers this way. I am not even excited about LH F anymore.
And United is the American Lufthansa. I never felt being a valued customer in their TATL econ cabins. When a passenger in front of me reclined brutally (no eye-contact / looking back before reclining, and he strongly jumped on the seat with the button pressed), resulted in breaking my MacBook’s display, I politely asked a flight attendant if is there any way to resolve the issue (I thought there might be an insurance covering it), he was blaming me, also accused me of lying, that my screen must have been already broken, etc.
And even on a day where nothing bad happens, UA or LH is still a negative experience.
I really would go out of my way to avoid flying with Star Alliance, expect TK. I just don’t understand why can’t they switch to SkyTeam.
And c’mon, UA kicked you out of a flight for taking pictures, and you are still loyal to them. Unbelievable.
I’m kind of torn. On one hand, that was rough while on the other hand, that’s the norm for the vast majority of passengers. I’m 6’4″, and flew Lufthansa economy last year and ended up with aching knees for days from the person ahead of me reclining. The price of flying coach, I suppose. From your description, what needs to be done is to make coach class better, and I couldn’t agree more.
Got the same experience DFW-MUC, where my BP showed the same seat and I was almost the last one to board, and was assigned the dreaded middle seat last row… 42F. Worse, the passengers in 42E and 42G were together! I politely asked if they could seat together but they both refused, asked the FA as well, and she couldn’t budge them. So for 8+hrs I had to listen to them chat during meals and them discussing the IFE!!!
That is an unfortunate experience but I have flown economy class on Lufthansa before and cannot justify the extra cost to upgrade to business, let alone first class when I have to pay my own way, being a small business owner. That being said… long rantbto follow…
I recently had a codeshare flight with Air Canada which landed me on a Lufthansa flight from Toronto to Munich. Sadly, the Toronto flight was delayed and I missed my connection in Munich by 5 minutes. I arrived in Munich and went to the Lufthansa help desk to check-in again and they had already booked me on the later flight from Munich to Krakow. So I collected my new boarding pass. I would have missed my ride in Krakow but could make alternative arrangements. So I waited the extra 3 hours as good passengers do, without complaint. But… As I was boarding my flight to Krakow from Munich I was informed by Lufthansa that my ticket has been cancelled and I got to wait and stand at the gate while they boarded each and every passenger…. It should be noted that I have 50K status and thus priority boarding… But this didn’t matter to Lufthansa and I was told to wait… For 20 mins… quietly… In shame… While everyone else walked past me and boarded. Once everyone, including the last minute scragglers, were on board. I stood there waiting for another 15 minutes while the plane just sat in the loading area and the ticket agent just waited on the phone for someone to explain why my ticket was canceled. Humiliation and frustration coursing through my veins. Eventually after 25 mins the supervisor I had requested appeared and also got on the phone. I honestly thought the plane was going to leave and I would miss my business meeting in Poland and forever live in Munich Airport, until the supervisor, realizing my frustration and boarding pass in hand which stated this was my flight, told me that I can board and that my seat was the same one on the ticket! No apology, just hurry onto the plane. One ‘Walk of Shame’ later I was seated at the back of the plane, in the middle seat with no reclining! Man, I feel your pain!
I took this flight last year when my wife and I needed to get to CPH on fairly short notice and used some United miles for 2 coach tickets. I was in the middle economy seat in the last row of upper deck mini-cabin, and found it to be surprisingly enjoyable for 11 hours in coach.
We had a fantastic flight attendant who refilled my wife’s water bottle numerous times, and I lucked out to a degree in that the last row on the upper deck is 2-3-2 rather than 2-4-2, and I was between my wife who I could lean on and a very nice, very petite woman on the other side, so my shoulders had some space. The flight attendant even let me stow my rather large carry-on behind my seat.
Recline was limited, and even though I almost never sleep in coach (and got zero shut-eye flying AA’s Main Cabin Extra from EZE to LAX last week, even after an Ambien), I managed to sleep maybe 2-3 hours on that flight. I also flew coach LAX-CDG on AF’s A380 earlier this summer (again in a middle seat between wife and another small woman), and it was just miserable.
Flight was likely full due to Oktoberfest.
On a flight from Frankfurt to IAD a couple of years ago they actually ran out of economy meals. I ended up getting a business class meal on real china which wasn’t actually too bad.
An experience reflecting the shortcomings of Star Alliance: One World and Sky Team have higher top tiers, with reciprocal benefits for members. Star Gold is pretty useless when traveling in economy : limited baggage, inconsistent access to fast track lanes and competing with zillions of other for recognition ( most of them freeloaders via credit cards). Your United status got you precisely nothing; I very much doubt you’d have ended up in such a seat as a top tier member of the other alliances.
Much as I love OMAAT, I really appreciate this blog for not making a stink about Economy, since for most of us we cannot scrape up enough points to always fly longhaul premium cabins. This story really highlights just how different the Economy experience can be from 2 different seats, and why planning ahead is still paramount for flights like these (although mistakes on both sides do still happen).
Refreshing to hear about your once-in-awhile experiences with the short end of the stick!
I’m guessing this wouldn’t have happened if you’d arrived at the airport early enough. More than likely the system flagged you for some sort of manual passport or document check, and they were probably paging you again and again at the gate for this. When despite numerous calls you didn’t present yourself by the start of boarding (35 mins pre-departure), they probably canceled you and reallocated the seat given there was no evidence whatsoever of you physically being at the airport. At least that’s my guess having worked at the airport in the past.
And even if that wasn’t it and you really hadn’t been checked in from the beginning, arriving at the airport 2-3 hours in advance of the flight would’ve given them the time to verify your seat assignment for you at check in, and even if it had been reassigned there probably still would’ve been aisle or window seats left.
I remember a while back you wrote a great article about lufthansa first class and this time you wrote a bad review of your economy seat. Well at least now you can say that you have experienced both side of the coin.
Recently did NY to TLV on Lufthansa via Munich, I was less than impressed by the whole experience.
A340 was fully booked and while I was lucky enough to get a window and a seat that reclines, the food, the service it was all meh, the flight to TLV on the A320 was without a meal, in seat screens or even a power point for portable devices…
Luckily Air Canada to the States on a dreamliner was wonderful and overall a great experience. So only a half bad trip.
I just flew in this very seat from Frankfurt to JFK. I thought it was funny at first, I mean, could that seat be more uncomfortable? Then my inflight entertainment went down mid flight!
NEVER AGAIN .
When they offered the 700 euro upgrade to business class I passed. I regretted that the whole way..and for the next couple of days!
Matt,
I’ve said this many times in reader comments here, on others’ blogs, and elsewhere (including tweets and posts on my LinkedIn homepage), so perhaps your comments about your recent Lufthansa flight to Munich from LAX will help illustrate the point given your many readers:
The simple truth is this: 31” row pitch is unacceptable for any flight longer than 3-hours – let alone an 11 hour “red eye”.
Period.
That’s all there is to it.
It’s NOT rocket science; it’s simply a matter of height and how much space is needed for our limbs to have sufficient movement over an extended period of time when seated to avoid pain, discomfort and to mitigate risk of developing deep vein thrombosis (DVT).
I wrote elsewhere recently about how my partner, who’s 5’4”; had Polio as a young child; who’s left leg was greatly impacted by this insidious disease; and who has permanently reduced/limited mobility – and how we were reminded a few weeks’ ago from our return LAX-JFK flight aboard Delta in a 31.5” pitch Main Cabin row just how difficult, even dangerous, it is for him to be in any seat/row with less than 32” pitch when he experienced several bouts of severe cramping during that flight, and then had an extended period several days thereafter where the cramping during that flight resulted in what he describes as a “flare up” so bad that he struggled to find a position comfortable enough to even sleep.
Yes, his “flare ups” can be that bad.
He won’t exaggerate them; if anything he seldom discusses the pain he experiences, but it’s impossible for me to not see when he can’t fall asleep – or can’t stay asleep – which is always a tell-tale sign when he’s having a flare-up caused by the leg most impacted by his childhood bout with Polio – and the resultant Post Polio Syndrome that will always be a part of his life.
And that’s a big reason why I’ve become so passionate about how aircraft densification in the name of greed is immoral, cruel, sadistic, and even borderline criminal.
For flights under 3-hours, row pitch below 32” is one thing.
But for anything longer than 3-hours, and especially anything 5 hours and higher, it’s WHOLLY UNACCEPTABLE.
Period. No exceptions.
And I’m saying this strictly in the context of seeing the impacts as they apply to my partner, whom, as noted above, is 5’4”.
I’m 5’8” – and have found row pitches below 32” extremely uncomfortable and unsatisfactory for flights longer than 3 hours.
And I am concerned about the possibility of elevated risk of DVT for flights longer than 3 hours in general terms, but especially so when I find myself unable to extend my legs because the seats and rows are too damn small for my decidedly average height and build.
And that applies for those despicable 17”-17.2” wide seats, too, what with the distance between my shoulders measuring 19”.
I mean, seriously, and again, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that if the width between a person’s shoulders is 19”, there’s ZERO CHANCE they can fit into a space whose dimensions are 17” or 17.2” wide without spilling over into the space outside of the seats (and then also having physical contact with the person next them unless that person is a child or petite).
And that’s just unacceptable for a great many reasons that should NOT need to be discussed at length unless someone is desperately lacking in basic math skills!
Anyhow, except for certain “niche” markets where per capita incomes and average height/weight according to their own countries’ official statistical data provide a legitimate reason for 9-abreast Airbus A330s and Boeing 787s; 10-abreast Boeing 777s and Airbus A350s; or row pitches under 32” for flights longer than 3-hours, the simple truth remains, just as it has long been before greedy (not to mention extremely hypocritical) profiteers began telling their bald faced lies that these horrible and wholly unacceptable too small seats packed into no legroom rows are perfectly fine – and that flyers have only themselves to blame for being cheapskates for the misery that have brought to long haul flying.
Balderdash! (There’s another expression I’d prefer to use, but I don’t want to run afoul of language restrictions regarding profanity).
Firstly, if these ridiculously too damn small, too damn narrow, too damn hard seats packed into no legroom rows are perfectly fine, I say: PROVE IT C-Suiters and Board Members by committing to ONLY flying these seat yourselves!
Yeah, I didn’t think so…
I mean, did anyone else notice how neither Doug Parker (CEO of American Airlines) NOR Lester Holt (Anchor, NBC Nightly News) came even close to fitting into the (wAAy too narrow) Main Cabin seats aboard the 10-abreast Boeing 777 that was used as a prop for their interview back in May?
Heck, even when pivoted facing sideways NEITHER of these adults fit in their too small/narrow seats!
And two, can we please dispense with the outright lies that densified cabins are the “price” flyers must “pay” for (mythical) low fares?
Again, pure “BALDERDASH”.
Low fares? You mean the $600+ roundtrip Main Cabin fare I saw yesterday MCO-RDU-MCO later this month?
Or the $500+ roundtrip Main Cabin fares NYC-RDU-NYC I’ve routinely seen over the past few years?
Meanwhile, how about those obscenely generous, eye-popping, record breaking, multi-billion dollar annual stock buybacks?
How convenient it is that this rapacious greed is nearly always omitted from discussions about aircraft densification.
Anyhow, I’ll leave off with that – only to add a bit of “thanks” to Matt for sharing his recent “Misery Class” trip report aboard Lufthansa since for most of us, as in the 85% of flyers who nearly always fly in Misery…er Economy class, and without whom NO AIRLINE CAN EXIST, that’s what we experience whenever we fly…
It’s ugly, shameful, and until I see our airline overlords routinely doing it themselves, outrageous, hypocritical and immoral.
After all, if these sadistic, overly densified cabins are NOT “good enough” for their own precious derrière’s, then clearly they’re NOT good enough for sale to (and profiting from) others.
Actions speak louder than words – and these greedy jerks have made abundantly clear, these seats are beneath them.
@ Howard, the last time I checked, most airlines do offer options for seats with additional width and legroom. Playing devils advocate, how many seats would have to be removed to offer the space you feel is “deserved”? 5%? 10? Are you willing to pay that in addition to base fares? If so, you could just purchase the extra legroom seats and be strategic in finding the rows with a little additional shoulder room. Flying isn’t a right for anyone, it’s a privilege. I recently flew LH economy from LYS to Chicago via FRA. Do I particularly love a Lufthansa (or anyone else) coach seat on a 10 hour flight? Of course not. But the flight was $500 r/t. It was a good value for what I paid. I could have spent a little extra for an exit row, a $550 buy-up to premium economy, and even Business Class seats were available for ~$900 both ways. I fully agree that the seats in the back of the bus can be miserable but there are lots of options to avoid them – miles and points come to mind. If you find flying *that miserable*, I’m sure you can find a lovely destination within a few hours of your home.
@travelguy, I’m actually very nimble finding half decent seats for most of our flights.
But, where I disagree is this fiction that airfares are consistently/universally “so cheap” as the rationale given for seats so small, narrow & horrible that those who profit handsomely from selling them refuse to park their precious derrière’s in the seats they say are perfectly fine – for everyone but themselves.
Further, since when is $600 roundtrip for Main Cabin seats MCO-RDU-MCO “cheap”?
Maybe $600 is pocket change for someone born to vast wealth and privilege, but for most, that’s serious money to pay only to be stuffed into seats most average sized adults won’t fit into, and to find oneself treated as if unwanted dirt stuck on the bottom of someone else’s shoes.
It just is.
And it’s a blatant rip-off that has perverted the concept of $59 or maybe $79 all-in, bundled fares of the past, which might justify the extreme seat/row pitch shrinkage seen today.
But, those types of discounted fares are few and far between now, with total amounts paid (NOTE: TOTAL cost after ALL the last fees are paid long after the lowball, “bait & switch” base fare is paid) for roundtrip flights NYC-Florida easily $400-$600 for Main Cabin, which hardly resembles the era of ruinous fare wars when $79-$129 ($158-$258 roundtrip) were common.
And, when record setting, eye-popping, obscenely generous, multi-billion dollar annual stock buybacks are never big enough, while flyers are screwed/fleeced in ever more clever and inventive ways such as impossibly small seats or lavatories that at just 5’8” I have to crouch to fit into, and can’t turn around easily once inside just to squeeze in another row of seats to better fund even larger stock buybacks next year, then yeah, that’s NOT cheapAF flyers who are to blame for these despicable seats and too small to use loos.
It naked greed and gluttony that’s to blame.
And no, I’m NOT going to apologize or hold back in my criticism of that abject greed, selfishness and arrogance hiding behind myths and lies spread by hypocrites who NEVER sit in the seats they tell everyone else are perfectly fine to be stuffed into – except themselves, of course.
When they ALWAYS – oh, alright, 85% of the time to better match the ratio of fare paying passengers who make their pay packages possible and whom are paying the “vig” to the oligarchs who have reimagined the airline industry to serve THEIR, and mostly THEIR, own needs that makes these stock buybacks possible – fly as we fly, I might change my mind about these obscenely small seats packed into obscenely (even possibly health threatening) narrow, no legroom rows as being acceptable.
But, until then, I’ll continue to believe that these seats are nothing more than the naked greed grab that they are, and that it’s NOT the poor souls who pay $600 roundtrip to fly from Orlando to Raleigh/Durham and back who brought this on them-/ourselves, but just the simple gaslighting, blame shifting and outright, bald faced lies that the blaming of flyers as the cause of their own misery really is because $600 roundtrip for a 30” pitch Main Cabin seat MCO-RDU-MCO **IS** abject greed run amok, and saying otherwise IS a bald faced lie.
To most rational minds anyway.
Have a nice day! 🙂
I “thought about how much I would have valued an open middle seat if traveling with an infant so I decided to stay.”
You’re a good person Matthew. Let’s hear it for empathy in 2020. Happy New Year.
I bought 4 tickets and was supposed to travel on june 8th. Due to corona virus my flight was cancel. I called Lufthansa to refund me my money back but since I bought the tickets with Vayama they are not refunded me. Vayama at this point just disappear and noone can get ahold of them. Even do my bank statements shows Lufthansa got the money for my tickets they will still not refund me
Did you dispute?