This should be a fun comments section… Any time I write about Southwest, I am inundated with customers who defend their brand. But many are factually incorrect. Is it that they are misinformed or simply unaware of how Southwest Airlines compares to other carriers?
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Yes, yes, “Bags Fly Free”
Customers place a disproportionate amount of value on their bags. It’s true, the first two checked pieces fly free on Southwest and it’s also true that other carriers charge between $30-40 for each of those two pieces. However, how many travelers check two bags on every flight? Further, how many of those could have packed in a carry-on instead of checking one of those bags but didn’t solely because it was free?
One reader reached out and said that two free checked bags represents $200 in value on every trip they take. I can’t make that math work, and while this reader flies purely for leisure, most business travelers wouldn’t check a bag regardless of cost due to both lack of need and gumption.
Yes, they are free but they don’t add as much value as some flyers might think. and don’t necessarily overcome the Southwest premium on tickets. Additionally, it’s possible that I am so far removed from the general (non-miles/points) flying public that I simply don’t realize that Southwest flyers are checking two full bags for every member of their party. If a family of four takes a trip for a week to Disney, are they really checking (8) 50 lb bags with carry-ons too? If not, as I suspect, then the premium price for Southwest tickets applies to all flyers but the applicable benefits only apply to some of the travelers.
No Change Fees Doesn’t Mean Free Changes
One commenter wrote in that they would change their airfare at the airport and on the fly leaving Co-workers in the dust when meetings finished early. No, they didn’t – at least it’s really unlikely that happened. Why? Because unless they bought their flight that morning, the fare would have changed.
When Southwest says, “No Change Fees” that means that Southwest will allow travelers to change or cancel their flight without adding change or cancellation fees. In the case of a cancellation, the funds stay with Southwest as a store credit. So far, so good, they live up to their claim.
However, the difference in fare is still the responsibility of the customer in the event of a change. Many commenters have discussed how great the deals are on Southwest, snagging the $50 and $100 tickets that made their airline famous. But when you examine close-in bookings, Southwest is just as expensive if not more so than the other airlines. So while there is no insult to injury in an added change fee like the other carriers, there is still an increase in the cost of a ticket, in many cases 4-8x the price paid and often more expensive than a ticket on another airline. That makes it more expensive than some think. It also makes it impossible to leave your co-workers in the dust while you jump on an earlier flight for free. It also speaks to a lack of knowledge about the other carriers (below.)
Every Seat is Essentially As Bad As Any Economy Seat
Southwest used to have an amazing 34” of seat pitch, which I personally loved over the years, that distance has shrunk to just 31-32”. Other carriers offer 29-32” in standard economy but also offer additional legroom seats other than just the bulkhead and exit rows like American’s Main Cabin Extra or United’s Economy Plus which offer between 34-36″ of seat pitch. Standard seat pitch at American is 31″, Alaska 31-32″ like Southwest, United, and Delta at 30-32″ – JetBlue leads the field at 34″ standard.
Why is this important? Because some business flyers believe they are still getting more space which used to be true. The fact of the matter is they are getting less, and if they fly enough to have A-level status with Southwest, they would have access to seats that give them more space, for free, on other carriers.
They Don’t Understand The Benefits at Other Carriers
Many Southwest flyers, especially business loyalists, left the other carriers so long ago that they don’t know about the benefits at American, United, and Delta. For example Delta, United and American open their flights to change on the same day for $75 to any guest, elites at the mid-tier or above universally pay nothing to change to another flight on the same day. Southwest offers same-day changes for free to status holders but unavailable to any other passenger.
Southwest business customers that flew American, Delta or United before they opened upgrades to all classes are passing up more space and better service opportunities.
Some Southwest customers love that they can always find an award seat on Southwest flights and this has been the case for many years. However, there is a mountain-sized asterisk with that statement. That’s just to say that there is a seat available, but the other carriers typically will give you an award seat as well, just not at the lowest level. They issue variably priced awards just like Southwest does so you too can get access to those seats, just not for saver level prices.
Irrational Exuberance/Ignoring Limitations
Southwest customers LUV their airline. Some love it so much that they don’t carefully evaluate the full breadth of available options. I recently wrote about how I don’t even shop Southwest for business trips because I forget they are there (not on the OTAs so they don’t factor into my price/schedule comparisons.) Likewise, I don’t think many Southwest customers are shopping outside of the airline and don’t realize what life is like outside the carrier.
Give credit to the Southwest marketing machine that converted the airline from a Low Cost Carrier to a value carrier – one that doesn’t nickel and dime their customers while the rest do. What their customers failed to notice is that they are missing out on other benefits that come with flying the flag carriers while the Southwest prices have crept ever further north.
Many fans of Southwest also forget other destinations. Not everyone has a desire to leave the continent, but some do if even just occasionally. With Southwest, that’s not an option. Flying a moderate amount of trips on American or United would earn enough for a trip to northern South America or Europe. I just spoke with a friend, one such Southwest super fan, that is paying out of pocket for a trip to Ireland next year. They spend enough money on Southwest flights and the credit card that they maintain Companion Pass without the sign up bonuses and yet, even the super fans have a desire to go some place outside the Southwest network but of course can’t use their points for such. With that amount of business, any other carrier would have gotten them there on points, perhaps in lie flat business class.
Additionally, the lack of Southwest partners limits Southwest customers to just Southwest destinations even within the caribbean. While United members could utilize Avianca or Copa to get almost anywhere in the caribbean or Central America and Delta members could utilize Aeromexico, Southwest customers have a choice of less than ten cities, if not they have to fly with another carrier. That may seem fine until a wedding pops up that requires another destination outside of Southwest’s network.
Conclusion
I don’t hate Southwest, I actually rather like the airline – my wife has Companion Pass and we are flying them next week. But we know that we are flying them for specific reasons, we aren’t blinded by the free bag benefits. Some of their customers should realize that they are leaving a lot on the table for a benefit that they may or may not fully utilize and are likely paying a premium to receive.
What do you think? Are you a Southwest enthusiast that thinks I am wrong? Do you agree with my assessments?
All good points, but you left out the companion pass. This is unique to Southwest and provides a strong incentive to frequent flyers.
I did leave it out of my evaluation but mentioned that a friend has it but can’t use it or any of their points to get to Europe, and I also mentioned that my wife has it and we are using it next week to fly on Southwest.
Ha, maybe your wife can write a “guest column” on the point of view that its worth flying Southwest. If she has the companion pass, she is obviously a frequent flyer. I tend to agree with your views.
She has written them in the past, here’s the latest one I wrote on Companion Pass. http://bit.ly/2yD8sMR
How about Southwest being better for convenience of schedule and frequency of flights? That’s why I stick with them.
The part that you missed is that all the other airlines are terrible in terms of customer service, ridiculous add on bag /overhead bin charges, on time performance and flight attendant personality. I will pay a premium to not fly United or American any day.
Mark, again, you’re making my point for me. Delta stopped charging for carry-ons on basic economy fares some time ago, American more than six months ago – this is what I mean about not knowing what the other airlines are doing and assuming Southwest is the best when they have the same policies. In terms of on-time performance, Southwest beats American and United but if just fourth place in North America behind West Jet, Alaska and Delta in that order (http://bit.ly/2LJ0bjL) which was only 1% more likely to arrive on-time than American I might add.
You can absolutely pay a premium to fly Southwest over American and United – I fully support that decision and will do so next week. The point of the piece, however, is that many fly Southwest not because they are willing to pay a premium but because they don’t understand what the other carriers offer and that they are, in fact, paying more to fly Southwest.
Kyle,
Your points are well taken. I flew CMH to BOS last week with my mom on Southwest. This route is also flown by DL on Embraer RJs. Even before the free bags were taken into account, it was cheaper to fly WN than DL’s basic economy fare booking approximately 6 weeks in advance. One of the points you missed regarding he baggage is the ease of finding overhead bin space on Southwest flights because many passengers will check their bags when the price is free. This also allows Southwest to turn their flights around much faster than legacy carriers, since fewer customers are searching for overhead bin space. Our WN flight (B737-700) was on the ground at CMH for a grand total of 25 minutes and departed on time after the previous flight arrived late. That also means something to business travelers. I would love to see American, Delta or Unites turn around that quickly.
I agree on using Southwest for direct flight options and that’s exactly why will fly them next week. Preference, not cost savings or benefits we won’t use.
Generally agree that WN isn’t what it used to be from price and service perspective. But if you are an elite and can board early in A, and don’t care about the lack of first class, they are as good an option as any other. The difference is Rapid Rewards which is far and away the best domestic/carribean miles program. If you have a family/kids that enjoy travelling, the free travel easily puts WN out front.
That’s a lot of “don’t care about”s but we agree on much of this. In fairness, American Airlines owns the Caribbean and Latin America.
Your friend can infact use their SW points to fly other places. It’s in their rewards options. Also, I think it depends on what type of business you’re in. My husband is a frequent flyer for business and he is a field service engineer so he checks his tool box and another bag every week along with carrying on a personal item.
Yes, but at a terrible value and your bags would fly free elsewhere too. Why? Because if he is a frequent business flyer, he will hit the revenue and mileage requirement minimums for any of the other carriers and they will give him free bags too, but a better valuation on his points, more flexibility in where he can use them, and nearly a guarantee for more space at his seat. Given that, what reason would he have to continue flying Southwest?
This is my exact point. He would get all of that with the others and more, but because his bags fly free, he doesn’t even consider the other airlines that will give him the same.
I have flown southwest for a number of years. Only once I did I have to pay cash. All other flights with points. Love their attitude and the “off the cuff” Instructions to passengers plus ability to cancel and get points and fees returned immediately. My fave in country airline for sure!
SW serves secondary airports ignored or abandoned by the majors. Case in point, Chicago Midway International Airport. I can get to the Loop 25-40 minutes faster than O’Hare International depending on the time of day and weather conditions from Washington-Reagan. United and American only fly to O’Hare. Southwest also has revitalized Houston-Hobby, Dallas-Love, Oakland and Burbank…all excellent alternatives to nearby hubs.
Um, I think this is a matter of preference. While Hobby might be revitalized, I’d argue that Bush is just as quick and easy to get into the city. Both are garbage in traffic but which traffic do you want to sit in? Around Hobby? Not my first choice.
Game, set and match
Nice work Kyle
No Change Fees Doesn’t Mean Free Changes – If you are an Alist Preferred member, you can change your flight at the airport without paying difference in fare. E.g. I bought a $99 flight day of, and then switched to a more expensive flight that departed earlier without having to pay the difference in fare. This is also convenient when traveling for business and you can hop on an earlier or later flight without paying the fare difference.
This is stated in the post, but as I also stated – all other major carriers offer their elites the same. Therefore the “no change fee” really only applies to non-elites for which Southwest offers nothing while other carriers allow any flyer to switch to an earlier like-for-like flight for a $75 fee and no difference in fare. Non-elites flying Southwest changing their flights on the same day are almost certain to pay more than a $75 difference in their originally booked itinerary.
This kind of makes my point, Southwest flyers are very in tune with the benefits that they love about Southwest but believe that the other carriers don’t offer it when, in fact, they do and it’s enhanced on other carriers (because even non-elites can do it for a fee that is less than a change fee) and their elite levels start 10,000 miles fewer than Southwest.
A few weeks ago I changed my Southwest flight, same day, for no cost. I am not A-list and the original fare had been booked several months in advance. You can’t always do that but it happens regularly. Your claim: “the “no change fee” really only applies to non-elites for which Southwest offers nothing” is clearly an exaggeration.
…or your experience is clearly rare and unlikely to be repeated.
I have tried flying on other airlines and the customer service was horrible, I hate assigned seating, and there was way less space for my knees on Delta than any of the others in my opinion. I also like to fly at my own pace. Sometimes I have several flights in a couple of months and sometimes I have a handful for the entire year. I don’t want the hassle of trying to meet all these criteria to get what I want on the other airlines. They can keep their points and their class system and just give me better flight experience up front.
If you hate seat assignments and prefer Southwest’s customer service, that I understand. However, Delta has the same seat pitch as Southwest so it would be just as cramped on a Southwest aircraft as it would be on Delta. I can also appreciate wanting to stay out of the status rat race.
No, that is incorrect. You didnt change your ticket without a fee. What you did was took advantage of the same day standby offered to A list and A list preferred members. Some agents will clear you at the ticket counter if the flight is wide open, knowing, that with your status you’ll be at the top of the standby list. Either that or you $99 fare was an “anytime” fare and that enabled you to change without a fee.
…and a $99 anytime fare would be worth a blog post by itself!
Another consideration is that non-Southwest airlines fly smaller planes sometimes and normal carry-on bags have to be gate checked – and often times are beat up through the process. Also, it takes quite a bit of time after getting off the plane to wait for them.
That depends, many carriers lean heavy on E-170/175/190/195s and the new A-220 all of which are reactions but store full size carry-ons. I actually prefer them now because they usually replace one A320 with two E-175s which gives me 2-3x the upgrade chances and more times to get to my destination. Further, that also allows those airlines to fly into cities that Southwest still doesn’t serve.
Sure, if you’re a “business flyer” there are plenty of opportunities to rack up points and get your elite status etc. (And if your business is paying for travel you’ll likely get to use those points for personal use!) However, the casual flyer is lucky if they end up with enough points for a magazine subscription on the major airlines. Most non-business travelers are looking for convenience, an itinerary that fits their schedule, at a decent price. If you are comparing non pre-board Southwest to Major Airlines Basic Economy deals, Southwest offers much more!
1. You get to choose your seat-having a window or aisle seat can be worth more than a couple inches in leg room. (No charge). With BE you’re almost guaranteed a middle seat and don’t even get a seat number when booking. 2. Southwest also allows you to sit with your party/family. (No charge). If your family is traveling BE, you’ll probably all be split up into random middle seats. 3. As for carry on vs checked bag, well it’s hard to really put a price on the convenience of checking…sure you might be able to squeeze everything in to a carryon, but why deal with dragging luggage through the airport while trying to make your connection (particularly if traveling with kids), or worrying about where to put it if you need to use bathroom or want to grab a bite to eat or a drink at a bar. Not to mention having to put your liquids in their proper bottles and baggies that have to be taken out for TSA and then repacked. (Hopefully you don’t need more than 3oz of anything!) 4. If you are a family traveling with young children-you will indeed need to check bags, and quite possibly 2 bags-for car seats/strollers etc. [Also many people with heath conditions require items that must be checked, so regardless of size, you will always pay a bag fee.] While I fly other airlines equally as often as Southwest (mostly due to airport location/nonstops or timing) I do think that Southwest has some perks that have been overlooked in your article. Particularly for a non business traveler, who doesn’t have the miles/points for any free upgrades or waived bag fees… Southwest offers (families) decent pricing, the ability and CONVENIENCE of free checked bags (and baby gear), and the benefit of all sitting together while traveling, or if each prefers a(n) window/aisle, they are free to do that. And lastly, the free change fee… for someone like myself with a chronic illness, you don’t always know when you might get sick, and paying $150-$200 to feel like crap AND miss out on a planned trip, because of things beyond your control-well, it sucks-to say the least. I’m just throwing in my 2 cents. To be honest, I really don’t have enough knowledge about airlines to even add a comment-but I can’t sleep, it’s 4am, and somehow I happened upon your article…
Good morning Julietta. You’ve said a lot that I’d like to respond to but I will try to bullet point it to keep it brief.
– Any $100 flight on any of the majors would earn enough miles for a magazine subscription (though I assume this was tongue in cheek.)
– You can’t compare Southwest to Basic Economy from other carriers just like I can’t compare Southwest to other airlines first class.
Let me cite an example I used yesterday to illustrate the point. Southwest offers a decent rate in mid-August from Pittsburgh to Orlando at $298 roundtrip. But Spirit offers a direct flight as well for $75 roundtrip (using the Spirit airport hack http://bit.ly/2V800Cw). That doesn’t include bags so if you want to add another two bags in each direction you can ($120 roundtrip), seat assignment (which you can’t guarantee with Southwest even though you get to pick it when onboard), add another $40 for that and you’re still only at $235. Split that over four passengers and it’s a savings of an entire ticket with the same benefits of a Southwest flight.
1) You can choose your seat but you can’t guarantee it, you may not get what you want and there’s no way to ensure that other than paying for priority boarding which is the same as a seat assignment cost.
2) Other carriers won’t split an adult from a child and in almost every case, they won’t split a family unit unless they have to. Southwest would, however, be no different in this regard. If you board last and there are only middle seats, they would force someone to move to accommodate one parent with one child, but they wouldn’t force people to move simply because you wanted to sit together.
3) It’s rather easy to put a price on the convenience of a checked bag – it’s $30. In the example I cited above, you have room in your budget to still pay for checked bags and come in under the cost of Southwest with free checked bags. That’s the point of the article, some Southwest customers aren’t evaluating that they are paying a premium for the same thing that could get at another carrier for less money – and still think they got the better deal. Also, the 3 oz limitation is true, but I don’t really need more than that and I travel with my daughter all the time (28 countries in the last five years). Putting it in plastic is something I rarely see anymore.
4) Clarification of fact – strollers and car seats check for free on any carrier, they don’t count as a checked bag. This alone would not be reason enough to choose Southwest because every carrier will offer that to you for free. TO state that every family indeed need to check a bag – this is also not the case. As stated before, we fly all the time with our five-year-old and have been flying with her from eight weeks old. We check bags if we are going to be away for seven days or longer for convenience but not out of necessity.
Your statement following that is one that I want to address: “Southwest offers (families) decent pricing,” *Southwest is substantially higher than the competition on many routes. “the ability and CONVENIENCE of free checked bags” it’s not free, you’re paying for it just not piecemeal. “(and baby gear),” *all carriers give this for free. “and the benefit of all sitting together while traveling, or if each prefers a(n) window/aisle, they are free to do that.” *depending on when you board the plane. If you don’t pay for priority boarding or early-bird checkin you have no more guarantee than any customer would flying basic economy which is not a fair comparison.
Thank you for your comments and for reading… even at 4 AM.
At what point does it become dehumanizing to NOT be given a seat assignment in advance? to fight for an aisle location, to stand with other grumbling flyers ( every single flight without exception) while they jockey for the seat they prefer? In case of an “incident” how are passengers identified? I have been flying SW for 10 years ( they are the only airline that flies into Islip from south Florida) it is like flying on a bus…Couples put their extra belongings on the middle seat hoping no one boarding late will choose it. I have seen one passenger get on early and “save” a seat for a later boarding passenger. You are given a choice of Early Bird ($25 each way)otherwise you must go online 24 hours in advance and sign in for a number in the boarding process. It turns normal people into petty, obnoxious, angry individuals. I actually prefer any airline BUT SW.
Beware what you read. Last year I flew Delta thought I got a great deal. Joke on me when I found out I couldn’t have a carry on unless it fit under the seat. Unless you buy a more expensive ticket you have to check your luggage. Plus, hard to get anything besides middle seat unless you pay for it.
One small correction: American and Delta both now allow full-size carry-ons and a personal item with Basic Economy fares, Delta changed the policy some time ago, American within the last six months I believe. United is the lone holdout on this policy at this point. But on the middle seat, you’re 100% correct.
@Kyle – unofortunately policy and practice are usually different. I was just on a ABQ-DFW (B737 equipment) leg last week where they asked for volunteers to check carry-on bags and when they did not get enough volunteers, they told all Group 9 (Basic Economy) customers to come to the desk to check their bag. So while the policy may be stated, how the field is implementing supports the contrarians argument. FYI – I am EXP on AA so I agree with your point and frequently argue it to my friends, so thanks for the article.
I get a yearly free companion pass with Delta and upgrades to first class.
Details, please.
I don’t agree with much of anything in this article. The main point you are missing with Southwest is that they have damn good customer service, and most of their employees seem happy. Most people realize Southwest is not like the other airlines, nor are they trying to be, but they are the largest domestic carrier (the most domestic destinations of any U.S. carrier) so for the purpose of getting around within the U.S. they are great. And yes two free bags, and no change fees mean A LOT! No Southwest is not like United, Delta, or American, but that is actually what has made them so successful. I fly often, and have flown all of them. I ofcourse do my international overseas trips on other airlines. However when it comes to domestic I prefer Southwest because the experience is always good. And that is what matters. Those other airlines could actually learn a lot from Southwest. Not that they are bad, but honestly they just don’t compare. There is a reason that Southwest is the only airline to be profitable ever since it was founded. They have never laid off a single employee. So I’m sorry this article is missing the bigger picture of factually why Southwest is so great. It’s also the only airline to ever make Forbes list of best companies to work for. No other airline has made the list. So there ya go.
The main point of the post was that some Southwest customers are blind or unaware to the shortcomings and how the carrier compares. You mention that Southwest is “factually” great. But you have made my case for me. You overlook the fact that you still have to fly another carrier to go overseas, you talk about free checked bags, but if you’re flying “all over” and international flights and you did this on one of the other airlines you’d likely have status and wouldn’t pay checked bag fees. You’d also have free same-day flight changes and at checkin a better seat experience than Southwest with more room and, in some cases, IFE.
While I appreciate you pointing out that Southwest has made Forbes list of best companies to work for, but then you’re “factually” incorrect that no other airline has made the list. Delta, in fact, has made the list the last three years http://bit.ly/2Zl1F6G. So there ya go.
I think the thing that makes Southwest the different from the other airlines is that it doesn’t have a punitive feel to its fees. Calling into customer service shouldn’t cost money. Making changes to a flight shouldn’t result in somfy that has no bearing on the flight cost (150.00 to reticket??). You shouldn’t have to rank up to the top level to be treated with equivalents to Southwest flexibility. How much money did they make off of the casual flyer that just needed a small change of day but now has change and bag fees?
Those are fair statements and valid points.
I have flown all of the major airlines for years out of Sky Harbor Airport where American and Southwest seem to be the prominent airline.
I have never had a bad experience with Southwest. They have always made wrong right as they really care and serve their customers. I wrote a big peace on the success and Servant Leadership that is a part of their culture. They have best in class customer service and truly care.
We have a lot of choices in Phoenix on who we want to fly with and Southwest beats them all in my opinion. However, if you just fly First Class then the benefits and culture at Southwest will be meaningless to you.
Perfectly said.
I agree some customers don’t see the shortcomings. In the end they do what all airlines do. They make your experience worse until you reach status. For Southwest that means A-list.
Having to check in 24 hours ahead of your flight on the nose or get a bad seat is annoying.
But in fairness they really do focus on customer service and flexibility. The bags flying free has other positives. You don’t have to try and pack all of your stuff for carry on. Easier going through TSA. Because the other passengers also don’t have to stuff it all in two small bags you are far less likely to be fighting for overhead space, gate checking, and the other delays related to everyone trying to carry everything on board.
Overall I like flying Southwest more than the other airlines but it depends on my status level on the airline. Having no status sucks, but maybe it sucks less on Southwest.
One of my co-workers lives in California and only travels the west coast and is Southwest A-List preferred…all of his destinations are served by Alaska and he still won’t take an Alaska flight unless they have an exclusive direct route (eg SJC to RNO). We took a flight from SNA to PDX and I got an upgrade after status matching with United to MVP 75K and he still will die on the “Southwest Airlines is better” hill.
It’s not the same anymore. I used to love Southwest and now…… eeh. I was able to check in just fine and get a good seat 24 hours prior. Now I have to compete with everyone that decides to pay advance check in. I barely get A seating or I’m given B seating. The one day I decided to pay advance check in, they canceled my flight. I was switched to another flight with C seating. I get it, not their fault they cancel a flight due to mechanical problems but honor the rest of us that paid or checked in early. It was canceled 2 hours before we were to take off. Snacks are crap and oh yeah free bags
Kyle, while I agree with your points, your post is incomplete and unfair because it does not mention the terrible service and experience that AA and United are famous for. By omitting this critical “benefit” of the legendary rude service, getting yelled at by ground staff, and all the other terrible things that AA and United leadership and staff dish out to their customers, your article is just a hit piece against Southwest.
There is a reason why many Southwest customers happily forgo the benefits of other airlines that you refer to in your article. All the benefits offered by the garbage airlines is not enough to convince me to fly them.
“Some of their customers should realize that they are leaving a lot on the table” Well Kyle, being treated like garbage is a benefit that I will happily leave on the table.
Not everyone has bad service on American and United, though I agree that most of my experiences have been positive on Southwest. In fairness, I have had excellent service on over 95% of my flights with Spirit as well, an airline that most people love to bash. I would also comment that American and United have different challenges than Southwest who operate shorter flights, no redeyes, don’t fly into O’Hare, Houston Intercontinental, Dallas/Fort Worth or Miami for example. Their fleet is all the same aircraft which can be an advantage for maintenance purposes, but a disadvantage on a trans-con flight, and their 737-only fleet also means they cannot get into smaller markets with smaller aircraft.
But the assumption that Southwest = great customer service and United/American = bad customer service is inherently flawed.
I also find it interesting that you call it a “hit” piece while others call it accurate and fair. Maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or maybe one of us is blind.
Perhaps this is true if you don’t have any elite status (I couldn’t say) but I am incredibly happy with the service I get from United. Calling the Premier Desk instead of standing in the customer service line is Ana amazing benefit when travel plans go awry.
I’m not a Southwest super fan, I fly all major airlines and pick what’s most convenient but all things being equal I’ll pick Southwest. Here’s why:
If you can concentrate your flying on one legacy airline enough to earn status yes they can be superior. But if you can’t its better to fly an airline where status doesn’t matter and that’s Southwest . Re: checked bags the free bag check does in fact benefit everyone because Southwest pax are more likely to check bags because it’s free so overhead space is not at a premium during boarding. You never hear the usual “we’re looking for volunteers to check bags and if you’re in a late boarding group you may not have space” announcement at an SWA gate. Finally you’ve overlooked that Southwest boarding is better, quicker, and just less stressful than any other airline because they are about making money on moving people efficiently, not charging extra fees to avoid hassle.
I agree with most of it, and especially that boarding is faster. However, again, Southwest does charge to avoid missing out on desirable seats, they sell early check-in and priority boarding and it’s relatively expensive. You can say they don’t charge for seat assignments but early check-in is just that and about the same cost – it’s not different, it’s just a different name.
Very truthful and fair article. I love southwest for their simple business model. They are NOT low fare for sure. You know what to expect and it is consistent service. The seating was fantastic but clearly has shrunk. I wouldn’t want to fly them to Hawaii.
The no rebooking fees is a big benefit for business travelers.
Bottom line – great airline to get points on if you travel domestically or the few places in Mexico and Caribbean. They aren’t the cheapest by far! I have focused on Delta the last 3 years for possible upgrades to Europe. Very happy with the service on Delta.
Agreed! I like SWA and fly them regularly on the west coast when Alaska (my preferred airline because I fly mostly NYC to/from PDX) isn’t competitive. Alas, as you outlined, SWA has gotten more expensive and less valuable for frequent fliers over the years. I will admit that I like to be able to change my ticket without a $125 change fee (I’m looking at you Alaska. Grrr!), but I rarely need to change my ticket. I also rarely check luggage, so that is of no benefit to me.
A story of why SWA has lost my favor: My family and I seamlessly took Delta to Cancun last year, but foolishly took SWA home because we had miles to spend. That journey from Cancun to PDX took 16 HOURS! 16 HOURS WITH THREE KIDS! It was a complete nightmare of layovers and transfers. From then on, we all agreed that we would just use our SWA miles along the west coast on short, easy flights.
Honestly, if SWA had more direct flights beyond the west coast (such as to JFK and they weren’t closing EWR in favor of the mess at LGA), we might use them more. They just really don’t meet my needs any longer.
Southwest often has the higher price now. But that is offset by a couple of factors that have nothing to do with free baggage:
(1) no change or cancel fee. On the other you lose $200 per ticket (essentially the whole amount one-way). On WN you simply bank it or if points you can redeposit. That’s worth much more than you think. Using points on WN is like buying a free option on a ticket.
(2) use of secondary airports like OAK->BUR. Avoiding LAX and SFO probably saves me a couple of hours RT when you favor traffic and delays. Time is money
(3) operational efficiency. On short haul WN generally gets me there on time. On UA or AA it is a big roll of the dice.
So yes you pay more and you forego seat upgrades to fly WN, but that cost is offset by benefits and the seats are tolerable for short flights.
I have a CP- IMO these are overrated particularly for families.
I stopped flying WN a few years when they stopped being the “Low Fare” leader and stopped competing with the car. Seriously, where I usually fly to for work is a 1 hour flight (with no luggage) where the last min. tix is $300+ ow on WN. I can just get in the car and drive it for less time, less money, and no airport hassle. I don’t see any benefit for their higher fares… and their new seats are “not tolerable” IMHO, for even a short flight.
Beware what you read. Last year I flew Delta thought I got a great deal. Joke on me when I found out I couldn’t have a carry on unless it fit under the seat. Unless you buy a more expensive ticket you have to check your luggage. Plus, hard to get anything besides middle seat unless you pay for it.
One small correction: American and Delta both now allow full-size carry-ons and a personal item with Basic Economy fares, Delta changed the policy some time ago, American within the last six months I believe. United is the lone holdout on this policy at this point. But on the middle seat, you’re 100% correct.
I’ll start off by saying, somebody who admits they spend thousands of dollars a year unnecessarily to remain loyal to Hyatt and AA/US accusing others of irrational exuberance is…ironic…but I digress.
I think there are a couple of flaws in your argument. First, you approach this from the perspective of someone who flies more than enough for at least mid-tier status on a legacy carrier. Your argument makes sense (though not as much as before, see below) for those travelers, but there are plenty of Southwest loyalists who don’t actually fly that often. The benefits you point out aren’t available in that case, or are at least watered down for the lowest level elites, i.e. you still have to pay for MCE, though at a discounted rate.
But I think the bigger issue where I think you need to reconsider the analysis is the proliferation of junk “Basic Economy” fares on the legacies. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe those fares allow you to apply any of the benefits you extoll except priority boarding and a free checked bag. In other words, no MCE/E+ or F upgrades, unless you fork over anywhere from $30 to $100 each way to “upgrade” to a regular economy fare. I’m curious how your “Southwest is more expensive 60% of the time” statistic holds up if you adjust for Basic fares. After all, what’s the point of sticking with UA/AA if you’re getting a middle seat by the lav unless you pay extra fees (or have no chance to avoid it at all on DL)? I’m either going with Spirit in that case, and save some real money, or paying $25 for Early Bird to guarantee a window seat up front.
While I agree with many of your points in your post……..
Many of you bloggers continue to fly on UA and AA on a regular basis. I have never had bad service on a WN flight, although they are not my first choice in travel. AS gets 90% of my domestic and Mexico dollars. However, I honestly don’t know is how much longer AA can keep doing business as usual with their abhorrent in flught service and attitude. I was recently on a SJU-SEA flight via ORD in extra comfort seating and was appalled at the attitude of the FA’s on both flights. I won’t get into it here, but the ORD-SEA segment was plain bizarre.
MeanMeosh – I almost linked your blog when I wrote this because I thought of you while typing it up. (https://www.travelcodex.com/author/roadmoretraveled/)
The exuberance part, I will concede, especially in the case of Hyatt – it’s the irrational with which I take exception. My loyalty comes after careful financial evaluations in relation to money I would have saved by staying elsewhere vs the benefits I get with the brand. I chronicled some of those for United in an earlier post today. The irrationality comes in when you spend more on the airfare to get free bags that you wouldn’t otherwise check or do not utilize the benefit and pay that premium across the entire traveling party. That’s irrational, but all loyalty is not irrational.
Some of what you’re saying is true and some of it is a misnomer. If we are speaking solely in regards to casual travelers (less than 25,000 miles annually) you’re right that some of these items are extra and at some point the extras add up to the premium (sometimes yes, sometimes no.) However, regular economy fares are the only thing I would compare to Southwest to keep things even. And if we are speaking in regards to travelers that fly more than 25k per year (every business traveler I know) they don’t pay for bags anyway. They also get access to those MCE seats included in their status at time of booking, so yes they pay more than a BE fare, but typically regular economy for an elite with American is still less than a Southwest ticket. Your miles may vary, but I did a mini-study on this some months ago out of PIT and found that to be the case.
Also the study cited in this report was prior to BE fares so it was an even comparison but just today I shopped Pittsburgh-Orlando in August. I found $115 roundtrip before I used my Spirit ticketing hack to save another $40 (http://bit.ly/2V800Cw) for a net price of $75 round trip. Add a checked bag on both sides of the trip for another $60 total and the cost is $135 round trip on Spirit. On Southwest direct flights for the same dates – $294. Even if I added another checked bag, I’d still only get to $195 roundtrip – multiple that by several other family members and you can beat the Companion Pass even with everyone checking two full bags. Try it for yourself.
I probably wasn’t clear in my reply, but I don’t disagree on the “bags fly free” fallacy. In reality, anyone who flies more than once a year on a legacy carrier and checks a bag can just get the co-branded credit card for $95 a year and come out ahead.
Where I continue to disagree is how BE fares have changed the landscape. Yes, the study you cite looked at fares before BE became a thing – but that’s actually the problem. Airlines just stripped out the benefits of their old lowest fares and called them BE, instituting a de facto $20 each way or whatever fare increase to get what you received before. Maybe the math still works in the legacies’ favor, but I’m not convinced. Granted, DFW is a weird market, but I personally am finding Southwest coming out ahead, or at least a push, more often than not when you look at standard Y and not BE. I’d also note that AAdvantage Gold doesn’t actually get access to MCE at the time of booking – they still have to pay, though with a discount (I think 50%). Free MCE only kicks in for Platinum and above. so those fees may or may not make a difference.
As far as the irrational part of your Hyatt obsession, I think you have to look no further than your colleague Matthew’s post about his upcoming trip to Bali – he refuses to even consider anything other than Hyatt because he’s on the hamster wheel of loyalty and needs the night credit, even though it’s probably going to cost him more. Holding yourself hostage to Hyatt in a place like Bali, when you can choose from hundreds of independent hotels or Asian chains that provide either a better product and/or substantially better pricing, to me is the exact definition of loyalty driving irrational decision making. (Just look at how you justify paying the ridiculous prices demanded by Hyatt in Bangkok, for example). I get that you see outsized value from suite upgrades and free breakfast. From my stodgy old accountant’s mindset, I’m sitting here thinking I could just outright buy an equivalent suite at an independent or Asian chain, and pay for my own breakfast, for the $1,200-1,500 a year you admit to overspending. (I am ribbing you all in good fun, by the way.)
You completely forgot elite standby for free the same day. So there is meaningful business friendly policies.
Southwest many times have saved me domestically. When other carriers only fly once a day and cancel. They have more options.
The biggest sticking point for going over to UA or the other majors (except AS) is that on cheap tickets you still get dinged for change fees. As a business pax. Meetings always change. So southwest is just more flexible if things change which do. And yes I’ve left colleagues in the dust cuz I can switch to their carriers or back to WN in a heart beat to get home.
Yes you will not get upgraded. But most lower level elites never get that either on the majors.
I have a mix of WN /AS for regional and longer haul travel. It’s my sweet spot for my needs. Global partners with AS as needed. But to say the all mighty upgrade is the key…..remember only a select few get an upgrade.
No, I believe I mentioned same-day standby policies for Southwest here:
“Southwest offers same-day changes for free to status holders but unavailable to any other passenger.” This is making my point for me, other carriers offer this to elites for free too but they also offer it for a fee to any passenger. That can also offset the cost of change fees and fare difference, something Southwest does not offer to non-elite passengers at all but Southwest’s would have a change in fare cost for non-elites and the other carriers would not.
In my city, Pittsburgh, it’s Southwest that flies just once daily to Houston Hobby compared with 4-5x on United, 4x daily to Chicago Midway vs. 7x daily on American or 6x daily on United, American 3x to Miami vs. 1x to FLL on Southwest, 2x daily to Dallas Love on Southwest vs. 5x to DFW. Maybe it’s different in your area, but for comparable destinations, if a flight is canceled, you’d be almost assuredly better off with another carrier.
On the change fee item, again, as a business passenger with just 25,000 miles per year, you get the same perk for free – if your colleagues didn’t know they could do this, that doesn’t make it any less possible, it just means they weren’t informed.
We agree that lower-level elites rarely get upgraded unless of course, they fly on Saturdays. However, what about the 12-20 additional space seats that offer more space than Southwest can? Those are available to any elite and they almost always receive them. If you’re not one of the first 15 onboard a Southwest flight you have the same regular economy seat as any American Airlines passenger, but with American, United or Delta you can nearly guarantee you never fly in truly cramped quarters. If you’re any level of elite flyer on any other carrier you will have more space than at Southwest whether the upgrade clears or not.
I think you have to factor in available nonstop options and frequency into any equation into your article. Southwest in San Diego is extremely beneficial with about 25-30 nonstop service options, albeit some are once a day. Nonetheless, if I lived in North Dakota, Southwest would not be my go to airline. We fly Southwest the majority of the time, but are willing to use points or low cash rates on other carriers for good mileage sale or a nonstop flight option at a reasonable cost. It is all a matter of perspective, but I agree you shouldn’t fly exclusively with one airline all of the time.
I agree with most of your points. It’s not really any cheaper unless you book fare sales or wanna get away fares and don’t change your flight. Also their lack of international options means I only use them for domestic travel. For infrequent travelers any airline offering a lower fare is fine, but I think Southwest beats the other airlines for a domestic only frequent flyer.
I fly almost every weekday and although Southwest is my preferred airline, it doesn’t service all routes so I also fly American, United, and Delta.
I prefer Southwest due to their fast boarding process which allows me to arrive to the airport closer to departure time and preferential boarding to frequent flyers. Sitting in the front and getting off the plane early is important to me and if I book last minute on a popular route then no upgrades are available and even worse only middle seats are. With Southwest I’m guaranteed seating in the front and never sit in the middle. Gaining elite status is also painfully slower with other carriers than with SWA.
Lastly, companion pass is an incredible perk that offers more value to me than a seat upgrade, but your typical flyer will never achieve it.
I know that I’m not your typical traveler so overall I think your article is spot on.
Southwest is a human Airlines managed by people who act human and are kind courteous and give you a relatively inexpensive flight to places that non-elite
Paying customers can afford I wouldn’t use them for flights lasting
Longer than 4 hours
But they are much nicer then American Airlines which I despise.
My Airline of choice is Delta but Southwest is what I fly the most because of price Plus I’m a Texan and I always defend my fellow Texans LOL
Kyle, I think it’s important to point out, at least on AA, that entry-level elites do NOT receive extra legroom seats for free at the time of booking. You still have to pay, though with a discount, unless this policy has changed recently. If an MCE seat is open at check-in, then you can select it for free. Maybe that makes a difference, maybe it doesn’t.
Couple of thoughts:
1) I fly a fair amount. I’m both a companion pass holder with Southwest, and a silver medallion member with Delta.
Part of my reason for using Southwest more than Delta is that my schedule changes all the time. Many times it’s after I’ve booked tickets, but a week or two before I am leaving. With Southwest, I can still get the “wanna get away” price.
Additionally, every time I’ve tried to change flights with Delta, I’ve been charged with the $200 change fee.
Finally, the “change my flight on the day of travel” pricing issue you talk about didn’t account for the free standby on other flights. I’ve used this regularly to get home earlier at no additional cost. This becomes even better with Southwest using MANY direct flights to their various airports, vs the requirement to fly to a hub, then to the destination. I can often get on an earlier nonstop flight earlier than my original flight, and worst case, get a layover that lands earlier, at no extra cost.
2) You CAN technically for international with Southwest points. Their shopping site allows you to buy tickets with American and other airlines for overseas destinations using points.
3) Southwest has free internet to a-list preferred.
However, to agree with you: Delta has better in-flight entertainment and better snack/food options.
I used to fly United, but their customer service is horrid now.
I appreciate your insight, but I could say that you were missing some things just like the sycophants are. 😉
@Alan –
2) Huh?
3) Most carriers will add free internet in the next year, Delta, United, and American have all been reliably rumored or confirmed. Delta has much better IFE, industry best as far as I’m concerned. Snack options on all other carriers are superior to Southwest and I am really surprised they haven’t done anything about this.
I swear I’m not making it up:
First go to southwest and login
Then go to: https://www.southwest.com/rapidrewards/redeem-more-rewards
Then click “explore rewards”.
Eventually you will get to the site below
https://www.qrttravel.com/search.jsp#/air
I can use my southwest points to buy tickets on United, American Airlines, Air Canada, and others.
Its the truth.
Folks, Alan here is right – you can use your points to fly other carriers.
However, the valuation I just found was so shockingly bad that there is no conscionable reason anyone ever would. For example, I searched MIA-MID (because I knew only American ran the route) and the cash price is $424. Regular economy was more than 61,000 points delivering a value per Rapid Rewards point of 0.6¢/per which is far worse than Southwest’s own rate of 1.4-1.6¢/per. The flight it directed me toward was with a connection in ATL on DL. If, for example, you used American Express Membership rewards, that cost would be 15,000 on British Airways (also earned by flying American Airlines flights), 25-30k in American’s program, and about the same with Delta or United depending on the price at the time of booking.
Alan is right, it IS possible to use Southwest points to book flights on other carriers, but the cost forfeits so much value I think I’d rather just choose some place else.
I have to change flights all the time, the $200 change flight cost at the other airlines is what makes me loyal to Southwest. You emphasized the $75 same day Flight option American has, but what about having to change your flight a week before? Or shortly after booking? I was once in line to board at Southwest and a family emergency happened. I cancelled my flight right then and got all my money back, and took care of my family without the stress of losing money. That peace of mind, of knowing I can change my flight at anytime, totally worth being in a cattle car airline.
If you often change your flights according to the information you’ve provided then Southwest is your carrier. In the example I cited, however, the lack of change fees doesn’t mean that a non-elite traveler can simply choose another flight without any cost and further, flights booked well in advance are much lower than flights booked close-in.
Note: Changing shortly after booking (if within 24 hours) is free to completely cancel and refund even non-refundable tickets on any US carrier and any other carrier departing, arriving, or transiting the United States by DOT mandate (CFR 399.88).
So I am Southwest guy, cause O’Hare is horrible and Southwest flies direct everywhere I need to go. But they are expensive, no doubt, butbinonly figured out the value when I used points to pay for all of my q4 travel. It literally made Southwest an affordable airline again. I tried going with United and American recently and buying a ticket is so complex unless you pay up and then I have to go to O’Hare, no thanks.. I took my kids to Paris and didn’t know where we were sitting until we got to the airport….how crazy is that? Ill just keep paying the Southwest vig, but I know I am paying it…but you did make me think about it.
Lol, the “Southwest vig” is the most Chicago phrase I have ever seen and I love it.
In fairness, if you didn’t know where you were sitting on your flight before you got to the airport for Paris (how is that different than Southwest?) you bought a Basic Economy seat and probably flew to another continent for less than Southwest would charge for a trip to Orange County. O’Hare is a mess, no argument from me.
I have had good and bad service on the legacy carriers. And I have had good and bad service on Southwest.
I fly Southwest only very grudgingly. I agree with your assessment about the seat pitch, Kyle, and the lack of seat assignments just doesn’t work for me. I don’t like ponying up extra money just for the benefit of getting on earlier and perhaps getting the window seat that I want.
All that said, I have to say that Southwest’s schedule and city pairings give them a very strong edge when I am flying within California. Southwest provides non-stops between airports that the other carriers require a connection to get between, if they serve them at all (I’m looking at you, United, when it comes to OAK and SJC). So, particularly when I’m traveling with family, I will bite the bullet and fly Southwest; it’s hard to make an argument otherwise. (Full disclosure: I just booked BUR-SMF via SFO on United … largely because I’m flying solo.)
Only thing I would add about Southwest is that they have no power outlets. Considering United and American both do, and all three carriers are reliant on streaming entertainment, I think that’s a massive difference.
Hi! SWA is a funass irreverent airline that’s what I luv. It feels like you’re part of a community when you fly them. They’re seating arrangement is laidback. You’ll end up sitting next to an oil man, a preacher or…ya never know (typically). Because their clientele is so “vetted” (loyal) the feeling of being in the same boat is pervasive and infectious. Their employees rock (typically). That’s what I luv when I fly them. Last I flew SWA everyone lamented that they’d abandoned their free peanuts. It was charming. (If I may give out props to United: flew them recently to Mexico City via Houston (from Austin) and they were like a new airline on that trip. I hope the refresh lasts.)
The lack of a ridiculous $185 or $200 fee PLUS the change in fare is a big deal. Southwest doesn’t charge a fee to change flights. They charge a fare difference, if there is one. They’ll also refund you if the new fare is less.
Being able to consistently fly on a large jet instead of a regional jet is also a big deal and I fly regularly.
I don’t care about assigned seats.
I’m not blind to Sourhwest. It has flaws but the good points override the bad and make it the airline of choice.
Southwest was clearly the best for my family’s vacation destination. Non stop flight both ways and the best price. Before booking i checked the other airlines and they were more expensive and didn’t offer non stop fligjts . A two hour flight shouldn’t take 6 hours fourty five minutes (layovers). And we sat together regardless of their seating policy. People who complain and wine about southwest would complain about the the shade of green thier money was after winning the lottery.
Man, I status matched to A-list last month and really still dislike southwest. I did it because I have date-variable travel this month where southwests cancel policy was more valuable for me. I was 10 minutes late to boarding and got stuck behind the C group for boarding. I appreciate free messaging and 32” pitch, but my routes usually get me at least main cabin extra 24 hours before boarding. Long story short, I’m avoid southwest for business travel as much as possible!
One of the most pointless articles I’ve read lately. Obvious bias and hatred for SWA. Please, so your research and report truth and stop the ignorance
Critical reading is so important. Please see the following line in the conclusion: “I don’t hate Southwest, I actually rather like the airline – my wife has Companion Pass and we are flying them next week.”
Southwest does leave the continent with many more international destinations as well as Hawaii
The fare difference only applies to the discount fares. If you book their full Anytime or Business Select you can do same day changes or stand by for free. Not just for tier members. Great benefit when meetings end early. Southwest is not for everyone but the good outweighs any shortcoming IMO. No other airline lets me cancel for free and use that money for a future flight. That’s huge and a big reason why lots of business travelers will choose them
Clarification: Despite the considerable distance from the US mainland, Hawaii is still part of North America. Aruba is actually the closest Southwest comes to leaving the continent with the island’s close proximity to Venezuela.
Southwest’s Business Select fares are often north of $500 one-way and would be comparable to similar flexible/refundable fares on competing airlines.
Or first class!!
Since I live in Baltimore my first choice is always Southwest because of the destinations offered. Most of my trips are vacation trip so I always check a bag. But the great advantage of Southwest is I like to book a vacation almost a year in advance because of hotel rates and availability. Even though I can’t book the flight until 6 months prior to the vacation I enjoy the fact that if I decide to cancel my destination I’m getting money in the bank to go someplace else without a penalty fee. That’s the edge that Southwest has. I do fly Delta because of frequent flyer miles and enjoy one free check-in bag but I always have to go through Atlanta!
Thanks for your very balanced post re: pros/cons of Southwest! I have only chosen them once. Flew from PVD-MDW. Did not understand boarding system but got it after getting last row/middle seat. Return from OMA I was very happy that my 2 large bags were free! Conx @MDW was 3 hrs late! Got to PVD @ 4:30am. Slept outside train station until 6:00am to catch first train to BOS. Overall, great trip!! Staff was great with info. Loved my fare. Sometimes [redacted by Admin] happens. Deal!!!
I’m a travel agent (& a very experienced traveler) and I agree with you wholeheartedly. It makes me insane when people are willing pay $200+ more per person for “free bags” and tell me “it comes out about the same once I would’ve paid bag fees”…(it’s simple math people)! Also, I send a lot of people to Mexico on both Frontier and SW (from Denver) and I cannot believe how so many people willingly pay for one bag PER person on frontier, pay a seat fee (unnecessarily) and so forth …& then complain about how expensive it all adds up to be. My family of four just took a weeklong cruise (in Alaska=extra layers) & paid exactly one bag fee @ $30 each way. I always admonish folks not to be bullied into paying the extra fees! The real plus to SW, where they smoke the competition still in my opinion, is how cheerful and lovely they are. The flight attendants actually like their lives. I cannot say the same for most competitor brands anymore…. I feel like I’m just as likely to be abused on United or American these days.
Thoughtful and appreciated response.
You book people on Frontier? Have you no soul?
50+ business flights a year and regularly check 6-8 bags on each flight. Not all business travelers are keyboard jockeys. So yes free bags and free flight changes make an enormous difference for the working professional.
To be honest I wouldn’t care if Southwest cost 2x as much, as long as it means I can avoid the horrible excuse for an airplane that are the CRJ’s that United and Delta love to pack in. You can have your “status” I’ll have my sanity and dignity.
I have no objection to the rejection of regional jets, but there is something I believe you are still missing.
If you fly 50+ business flights per year you’d have status and not pay for the first 2-3 bags on other carriers in the US which is better than Southwest’s policy. Southwest also charges more for their third bag than other carriers. I would also note that depending on the airline and the credit card, you may be entitled to up to (8) included checked bags. Southwest doesn’t offer that at all.
If you want to avoid regional jets, ok. But perhaps you should evaluate all of the options before determining you have the best one.
I refuse to fly WN for one simple reason: NO ASSIGNED SEATS !!! I prefer knowing where I’m sitting before I go and I do have favorite seats, usually first class or Even More Space seats on my favorite airline, JetBlue. I will give Southwest props for no $200 change fees but that’s about it. Their fares are the same with the other mainline carriers. Nor do I care about free checked bags because everything I need to bring with me will easily fit into a duffle bag that fits perfectly underneath the seat in front of me. And no, I’m not a business traveler.
Some of us like flying with a company that seems to be managed by human beings. That is a big and almost unique factor in my flying WN. And 32 inches of pitch really does
Beat the 29 I had on my last UAL flight. Yes I measured it with a tape measure. Oh, the upgrade to 33 inch extra legroom on UAL was 86$ and available only as a middle seat.
Jake – I have no problem with having a preference for Southwest after evaluating other carriers, it’s when folks don’t know that other carriers offer the same services but insist on Southwest because of it anyway.
I also think you might need to get a new tape measure… you are the only source on the internet I could find that shows a 29″ seat pitch on United (http://bit.ly/2GBy8yd). The better question might be, why are you measuring seat pitch and taking a tape measure on board?
I think many of your points are fair, though I’m not sure your headline is supported by anything other than vague references to “many Southwest flyers” and anecdotal paraphrases from people you’ve spoken with. Personally, I think anyone who is loyal to a particular product over others in the marketplace ignore the shortcomings of their preferred brand against the others – the phenomenon isn’t unique to Southwest. Sure, people overvalue the benefits at Southwest, but so do Delta flyers.
I don’t think you have provided sufficient data to say fairly that there is a “premium” to fly WN. Perhaps at the last minute there is; I haven’t done that research. But when you’re booking a month out or more, I find that SW prices largely align with what the other airlines are offering. Really, its pretty hard to say what is or is not more expensive nowadays with all of the unbundling that’s taken place since the get-on-board price isn’t often going to reflect the consumer’s end price based on ancillary services purchased.
What I personally value with Southwest over the other carriers is the general principle of flexibility. Do I check a bag regularly? No, I probably do so on less than 10% of the flights I take. But I have that option available to me, for no extra charge, if I, for example, decide to bring my golf clubs on vacation with me or want to bring some local beers home with me. And I don’t need to fly enough to earn status (or sign up for a co-branded credit card) in order to have earned that benefit, a characteristic that currently applies to me and generally applies to the overwhelming majority of the public.
Same with the no change fees aspect of the ticket. I can book in a good price even if I am not 100% certain that I can or will be able to use the ticket. I’m a lawyer and my plans can change pretty quickly and unavoidably thanks to work. If the price drops or I need to cancel, I can keep the value for use on a future ticket without penalty. A wedding I planned to attend this year was cancelled – never hope for that, obviously, but I got my points refunded on one flight and a credit for the other with no fees for either. No other airline offers that flexibility to anyone other than folks who fly enough to earn status (50,000 miles on Delta and United, and a whopping 75,000 on AA – for same day changes only). Is a credit necessarily useful for someone that flies only once or twice a year? Maybe, maybe not. Can a change be more expensive? Certainly. And it generally is, whether on Southwest or a competing airline. But there isn’t a $200 change fee on top of it if that needs to happen for anything other than a same-day change.
As for cabin comfort, I generally find Southwest to be just as or more comfortable than its competitors. In the past year and a half, I have flown Southwest, Delta, United, Alaska, Frontier, and American in regular economy. I am 6’1. For general economy, give me the Southwest 737-800 with the updated interior any day of the week. I’m not sure that seat pitch tells the complete story, but even just taking those numbers at face value, Southwest is tied for the best non-Jet Blue carrier in the country (and B6’s value exists essentially if you are BOS of JFK based or are headed to one of those places).
On the points side, you can’t (intelligently) use Rapid Rewards points for travel on airlines besides Southwest and, by extension, to non-WN destinations such as Europe. The flipside is that the other carriers make finding award availability a game or price award seats exorbitantly. Want to go to Europe? Better hope your dates are flexible or that you have a ton of bank points to redeem for the cash equivalent. With RR, I do have the comfort of knowing that I can cash in my points for a free flight if I need it. Delta does and United soon will price awards dynamically, just like Southwest does now. Is Delta’s (and will United’s) availability be as robust as Southwest’s? No.
I think there are fair criticisms to be made on Southwest. In most airports, they run fewer departures thanks in large part to the P2P business model (though they do generally offer more nonstop destinations). Their booking engine does not allow for double connecting, further limiting your options. The airline does not run red eyes (I avoid those at all costs, but for others they are necessary part of life). Southwest flies to far fewer domestic destinations than the other Big 3 carriers – want to go to a smaller airport like Fresno, Rapid City, Bozeman/Yellowstone, Jackson Hole, etc.? You’ll need to look elsewhere. Those quirks give you the consumer fewer options. I find generally that there are *enough* choices, but from time to time, I definitely wish there were more of them – especially when there are no choices between departing at noon and 545 pm. As for onboard amenities, there is no in-seat power and no seatback entertainment, which is a big deal for some. Besides snacks, there is no onboard food, buy on board or otherwise. And, of course, there is no “first class” (though if you think about it, Southwest is 100% first class!).
That wound up being longer than I intended. I think that the perks included in a Southwest ticket are worth more than you make them out to be and worth less than the caricature Southwest customer in the post itself. And that same phenomenon prevails on other airlines as well.
only idiots and brain dead losers love Southwest – between no assigned seats, no red eye, barely a handful of transcon that’s hardly useful to anyone who cares about their time, no Canada, no partners, no interline protection during IRROPS, who the hell wants this Texas Trumpian junk of an airline ?
My experience with Delta is that when my brother passed away and I had to cancel a trip, they charged me $200.00 for a $320.00 ticket. A month later I had to cancel a flight with SW and they asked did I want a refund or credit towards next trip. Of course the ticket price may have been different but it was still a good deal. $200.00 is excessive and part of Delta’s greedy policies along with their baggage fees, upgrade fees, etc. I pay $95.00 per year for a worthless Delta Amex card for Main Cabin 1 and a free bag. What a rip. I gladly pay the Early Bird fee so I can choose my seat (row 5-7 aisle in most cases) compared to row 30+ and possibly middle seat to Delta. I still use Delta when it is a good value due to miles for traveling to Sault Ste Marie, MI since they are the only game in town (old NW route). Each airline has its strengths and weaknesses. SWA still strives to be customer friendly and is not hung up on their high mileage customers like the other airlines. I have had some really rude Delta attendants (formerly NW) and can say that SWA actually seems to appreciate me as a customer.
Great discussion and I doubt if anyone’s mind was changed.
OK …. I am one of those LUVers of Southwest and only fly their airline domestically. I understand your reasoning but I’m fortunate enough to have my employer pay for all my travel and I use points (and companion pass) to fly on personal trips. It is rare I fly with a bad flight crew. Over the years I can only think of twice when I was shocked at the lack of decorum by Southwest flight attendants. I send an email of complaint to Southwest and they always respond. The same applies for good service and I had one of my emails published on the Chairman’s page. My point is it is almost like family and they treat you that way making the flights fun and stress free. You can’t measure that in money which is why I’m a loyal customer. Did I mention the free drinks? The fact is with their reward program you CAN fly anywhere in the world using your points on other airlines (unless they have changed the program recently). Full disclosure: I don’t even look at other airlines due to the poor service and surly attitudes. The last time I flew another airline the flight was canceled for alleged equipment malfunction and I had to spend the night in Charlotte. There were no apologies, no explanation and certainly no caring by that airline you were not going to get home that night. Southwest ALWAYS does their level best to get you there on time and not cancel flights. When they have to you usually receive a $200 voucher often when it is weather related and not even their fault. Yes, they are more expensive now but the value received is worth the price difference. Their business plan is solid and their customer service is exceptional. Life is not just about a few pennies saved. Did I mention they don’t have those tiny commuter jets which is beyond cruel and unusual punishment? Bottom line: It all depends on what is important to you and what you as a traveler are comfortable with but I just don’t think you’ll find a better airline than Southwest domestically unless you always fly business or first class.
My wife and I fly Southwest Airlines out of Albany NY almost exclusively. They have more agility than most airlines. They are also friendly. We genuinely LUV Southwest. Here is a story helping to explain why:
We were on our plane in Albany at 5:30am on Friday 9/26/2014 for a 5:50 departure to Chicago where we would connect for Tulsa, Oklahoma. I tend to favor early flights, because they tend to run on time and the rest of the day is available for other things. Early into this flight the announcement came about the now infamous air traffic control arson (although not in detail). We would be landing in Detroit. Initially told that our delay would be 3 hours, shortly after we got off the plane in Detroit we were told that no alternate connections were being made available and that our plane would head back to Albany. Maddeningly, this Southwest plane did not have wifi and so I couldn’t investigate possibilities while we were in the air. Still, the wheels in my mind turned. Back on the ground in Albany, my wife stood in the customer service line and I fired up the laptop to confirm a hunch. I had a plan in mind as we reached the desk. No one was flying through Midway that day. While other people expected Southwest to recommend the alternatives (and there were many), I stepped up boldly and asked, “Can you put the two of us on a plane to Oklahoma City today returning on Sunday?” The answer back was a simple, “Yes.” It was almost too easy. Rebooked on a new itinerary through BWI taking effect in a few hours later, we then sat down for brunch. As we dined at the Albany airport, I cancelled the Tulsa dinner reservation that we were now not going to make, and I re-booked our rental car from a Tulsa pickup to Oklahoma City — and (surprisingly) I got the same rate from Alamo. After wasting many hours in airports on Friday morning, we connected for OKC later in Baltimore (with time for a snack) and finally drove up from Oklahoma City to Tulsa, which at an hour-and-a-half was longer than we expected to have spent in a car. But by 10:30pm we were sitting at the smoky Mercury Lounge with cold drinks in hand listening to Jacob Tovar and the Saddle Tramps [check them out on YouTube]. I was truly grateful for SW flexibility that day. College football on Route 66 awaited us on Saturday. The weekend had finally begun!
Kyle, while I understand what you’re saying, IMHO most of the points you make don’t fly. (Pun intended.)
Let me preface this by saying a) I have lived near Southwest’s California hubs most of my life; and b) admittedly, I don’t fly WN anywhere near as much as I used to. Now to the best of my knowledge, I’ve flown them approximately 90-100 times in my life. Every flight I have taken has been loaded with business travelers. There are certainly times when I have flown (e.g.) SNA-SJC or LAX-OAK for work in a single day (no bags at all), or perhaps stayed overnight (a carry-on). But I’ve also flown WN multiple times on business with two checked “bags” — often a case (or two) of wine, with either a suitcase or a carry-on, depending upon the length of my trip. So, too, have I traveled with my wife and two (then) small children to places like Disneyland or San Diego (at least six checked bags, possibly more). That DOES save $$$ — especially if one doesn’t have elite status on Airline X (or their credit card).
No change fees does mean exactly that: no change fees. OF COURSE you have to pay the difference in fares, but you have to on other airlines, too…PLUS the change fee.
I know the Companion Pass has saved my brother-in-law thousands of dollars annually.
Bottom line: Southwest works for those people for whom it works. It doesn’t if — like @henryLAX — you want to fly transcon, or to Canada, or to use Rapid Rewards points for international travel. But that’s a bit like saying Corvettes are horrible cars because you can’t pack up your spouse, kids, and bags and take off for a week to visit National Parks…Corvettes aren’t built for that, and neither is Southwest designed for people who want to fly where they don’t go!
P.S. I said above that I rarely fly WN anymore. That’s because 1) my kids are grown; 2) I fly less for business now; and 3) I *do* fly transcon, I *do* want to use my points for international travel, and I *do* appreciate access to partner airlines. I’ve flown VX/AS some 150 times, have elite status (and their credit card) — no bag fees, and I just returned from a trip to the East Coast where my wife and I *did* check two bags each. I’ve also used points to fly SFO-LHR- MAD r/t, and SFO-TPE-PNH-HKG-SFO — all in J. So my *needs* have changed, and thus, so has my preferred carrier.
I travel for business, in the San francisco/Oakland Bay Area. Generally, I only fly about 24 times a year, so not really enough to get some sort of status with many airlines. I fly generally on the West Coast, I also travel cross-country about three or four times a year. I intentionally avoid Southwest at their Oakland hub and will travel to San Francisco to fly on Alaska, JetBlue, or other Airline simply because Southwest is not cost effective. I can buy an Alaska fare, upgrade to a more comfortable seat, and get one bag checked free because I have an Alaska Air Visa; all for less than what I would pay for the mid-range Southwest fare. In many instances I can get all of this for cheaper than a low-end Southwest fare. So I completely agree with your Southwest assessment. Like, I’m also an example of someone who has flown on almost every airline out there, and there’s not a lot of difference in the airlines when you get to the bottom line.
Richard, I agree with you…I’m just not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
As a former “road warrior”, I have developed my preferences within the majors;
– American, never unless it’s the last flight out of a disaster situation (and my life is in danger).
– United, if no one else flies there.
– Allegiant on one specific route if they have a cheap fare.
– Delta, my go to for international and some domestic (note, their service took a serious dive south when NW personnel took over the senior positions at the merger, however it’s returned to prior levels).
– SW for most domestic because of their flexibility in fares, and the baggage (don’t need two bags, but nice to have option).
Points you didn’t mention. SW senior fare is discounted from full fare, and while not as low as their advanced booked fares, it is fully refundable as long as you cancel no later than 20 min before the flight. Some “stuff” we travel with can’t be brought on board in a checked bag. And in my experiences, SW seems to have less of the nut cases and inconsiderate passengers. An aside, you may want to review a separate blog that discusses the difference between “nonstop” and “direct”.
Because I have limited control over some of my bookings – volunteer travel especially as a transplant courier – I have status with multiple legacy carriers but not top tier because of the splits.
I often joke with flight deck and cabin crew about how much fun SWA can be because of their safety announcements and also because of the staff rotating to all positions except up front window seats starboard and port….
It’s seen as a compliment when I make the comparison and I routinely interact with cabin crew especially on long haul flights and offer to write comment cards and have tipped crew members for exceptional service. They did not turn it down, imagine that!!
SWA has one problem though and you find it in the Contract of Carriage…. if there are irrops of any kind with them your options are refund or next available seat on SWA… which might be 5 days from now….. not so with the legacy carriers where I can call the elite desk and they care care of me in any way possible. major storms? Take me to a nearby airport instead and I’ll rent a car. It’s not about cost, it’s about getting there.
And that’s important whether it’s for business, a wedding or vacation because we all have too much free time on our hands – NOT!
End of rant and btw I don’t like to fight over seats when boarding…. this free seating stuff is cool for a bus but not for a 4 hour flight….
Great article! I have flown on all the Major airlines here in the US over the years and even in the last year have flown on all except American which I have sworn to never fly again due to poor customer service (Loved US Air but they took the worst part of both airlines in the new combined entity).
I really find Southwest overhyped for many of the reasons you state in your article and found that they have fallen down on customer service multiple times in my experiences with them that I try to not fly them unless it’s to one specific destination that only they serve direct to which is South Florida to Islip, NY.
Even on vacation with my family of four including two teens, I only need one checked bag per person which I get for free on Delta as I’m a platinum card holder plus have status (even silver status first bag is free).
I really can’t stand having to check in 24 hours prior just to get A group and prefer to have assigned seats that I pick at my convenience. My family and I have never been separated due to this. But on Southwest, I completely missed the 24 hour time and wound up in the C group which caused all kinds of issues with my younger teenage daughter having a panic attack because she was going to be separated until someone was kind enough to move and allow her and my wife to sit together. Buying the guaranteed A group would have added to the cost of the trip and we were budget constrained at the time.
On that same flight as well as the return flight, they were some of the rudest flight attendants that I’ve experienced in a while, even asking a lady to put her non-removable colostomy bag under the seat even after showing them that it was attached! I felt embarrassed for the lady that had to explain this to the flight attendant multiple times and then she had to consort with the captain to see if this was allowed!
For the flight change fee, I’d rather pay the $75 dollars as Southwest also fell down with this as well. I was once a loyal Southwest flyer until the wanted me to pay $189 which was the difference in tickets to get on an earlier flight home which was under-booked. In the past I was able to go standby and basically get on if there were seats but this time they refused to allow me to do this. So I took my regular flight and stopped booking with them permanently.
Their fares aren’t that much better than other airlines either as I looked at a flight to Chicago recently and Delta had them beat by $60! I fly out of Fort Lauderdale which is a competitively priced airport, even to hubs like Chicago, especially if you don’t mind having layovers, which I don’t.
Southwest has their pluses and I know plenty of people who swear by them but the negatives outweigh the positives in my mind and for my purposes which is both business and pleasure. I am now a loyal Delta customer after US Airways disappeared and find that Delta’s customer service as well as aircraft have consistently improved year over year.
I only fly Southwest, and have for 30 + years. I have no need for the games other airlines play with fees, rude employees, and self absorbed clientele. Your attempt to belittle the real advantages of Southwest are pathetic.
Total agreement with you, sir.
I understand why you say somethings but for me, when I board a plane, it is to transport ME to another location as quickly as is feasible. Hard to beat SWAL in that category. I think if extreme comfort is your choice then go pay through the nose for a plane that has 1st class seating. Or maybe take the Train. Very comfortable but takes some time. (Try flying as a passenger in a C-130 or a C-141, etc. Lot of leg room but not too fun. Although I did enjoy some of them because it was such a different experience for me) SW offers a myriad of ways to fly cheaply and quickly with many time choices. Next time you want to get somewhere quickly, take one of the others and compare the schedules and your wallet before and after. I have the SWAL Rapid Rewards Visa credit card. I have not paid for a flight in at least 5 years. And now with my upgraded card, I get other benefits as well. It’s SWAL for me in every case for my needs.
The data shows that it’s cheaper to fly the planes with first class (all of them but Southwest, essentially.) But to say that Southwest is affordable because you accrue points and then use them to pay for flights is to make my point for me, you’ve not considered other options. Almost any carrier and Co-brand credit card would achieve the same goal. How is that a reason to fly Southwest over any other carrier?
Some things you missed: A-List/Preferred only offers free same-day standby, not confirmed, which can only be done at the airport. Pretty annoying if you want to firm your plans and not potentially sit at the aiport for hours. Additionally, if you have the credit card, you can use your RR points for international flights (so long that SW does not fly there). Redemption is price x 100 for the number of points you need. Take a look at the “more rewards” link under RR. I used 60K points for a $600 ticket to Ireland on Lufthansa,
Another commenter added this too and I agree, it’s true you can. You can also use IHG points for stays at Weston if you want to devalue your points by 300% but I was hoping logic would come into play. I was mistaken.
As an A-Lister Preferred customer on Southwest with a companion pass for over 10 years, I’ll tell you what I tell many Southwest Newbies.
We fly this airline because of its’ reasonable prices, the superior customer service, and most of all for its safety record which is second to none over its over 45 year history.
After all, isn’t that the most important measure of air travel?
Well, not second to none. That would be Spirit. Southwest has had two fatalities, one woman tragically sucked out of a window due to an uncontrolled engine failure and the other was after a runway slide at MDW into a car where a little boy was killed.
But customer service is excellent. No bones about that.
I fly at least 50 times every year, domestically. I also fly to Europe/Australia/Hong Kong and Beijing. On every single domestic flight I check the fares and for the last four or five years Southwest has NEVER been the cheapest. Never ever. Plus, when I fly AA/DAL or UA to Asia or Europe/Australia I rack up enough miles to get free upgrades to Business or even first on the international flights. You may have to book international in advance and slip your schedule a few days one way or the other but I haven’t flown economy international in those five years. SWA, for my needs, cannot compete on price or destination. I am happy that all the families do choose SWA because for some reason they think they are cheaper…it keeps the noise way down on the other carriers.
I believe Kyle is well under 6ft. I fly Southwest because there is zero chance I’ll be on a CRJ or ERJ!
I’m 5’8” but if you’re talking about deep coach on an E-170-175, maybe you have trouble but that’s only maybe 25 of the seats on an 80-passenger jet. On CRJ, even little old me has to duck my head, no one is comfortable on those. I’m glad they are going away.
Why are some people so against checking a bag? I hate schlepping a bag with me, plus I carry on so much electronics (laptop, tablet, a portable monitor plus all the cables/adaptors/chargers) that I would hate to try to carry-on another bag.
I for one don’t want to wait for it, don’t want it damaged, don’t want to have it re-routed or lost. Rolling my backpack on top of a my rollaboard is better for my back than a backpack or messenger bag and I can check in whenever I want. Two weeks ago it took just 25 minutes from my front door to 1D with security and parking. If I check a bag, it’s not just the time to stop at the counter but also an extra 20-30 minutes earlier I need to be at the airport to make the cutoff. Seems like more hassle to me.
When I lived in Indianapolis, I flew Southbwest via St. Louis to get to my destination. The last straw was when my 7:30 p..m. flight out of St. Louis was delayed an hour because it was the last flight of the day to Indianapolis, and there were 12 connecting passengers on a delayed flight from someplace else. I decided then that it was not worth it to have to sit through delays of the airline’s making without any compensation or much else. Since Southwest has no interline agreements, it cannot move passengers onto other airlines.
Since I moved, I don’t live within 3 hours of an airport served by Southwest. I don’t miss it at all.
I had status at AA, traveled overseas regularly for work and used AA exclusively. Even with status, making changes was pricey. Luckily it was all work related, so I was able to bill the charges.
I changed jobs and quit flying regularly, still had AA credit card. I needed to get to JFK for a flight to Stockholm 3 years ago; AA wanted $1000 and I couldn’t get a bump up. LUV for $300 to EWR and I get a train ride for another $20! win-win.
Had to get to LAX for a flight to Beijing on a Chinese carrier, not affiliated; AA wanted $600 more than LUV, couldn’t get me there in time for a mid-afternoon departure; would have needed to leave the day before. And I’m in the middle of the country!!
What am I paying the fees and CITI interest rates for ?? Can’t even get an MD-80 flight for the last week with the points I have!
Going to Munich next month; using United and Lufthansa. First time in 10 years….
AA hasn’t done anything to keep me. And unfortunately, LUV has been there when I needed it, was timely, and did have better seats.
I’ve used SWA points to get free travel on international flights (for use on other airlines). I also earned points on those airlines with the tickets. So yes, they have international travel rewards.