Air France and American Express seem to be engaging in a conspiracy to rip off customers in contravention of EU law. This is really an upsetting story that may have ramifications in the United States if flight restrictions remain in effect for a longer period due to COVID-19.
Air France Won’t Refund Ticket After Flight Cancellation
A man purchased several Air France tickets for travel in 2020. His flights were cancelled. The passenger, who is an Air France Platinum member and spends thousands of Euros on Air France each year, contacted Air France to receive a refund. Air France refused, stating, “Due to the nature of the flight cancellations as per extraordinary circumstances, a refund is not currently offered.”
Here’s a screenshot of the Twitter exchange:
Seems like a perfect opportunity to call American Express and dispute the charge, right?
Wrong.
American Express France Won’t Initiate Chargebacks Against Air France
In France, American Express and Air France are partners. After Air France refused to refund the ticket for his cancelled flight (despite a clear and unequivocal mandate from the European Union to do so), the passenger reached out to American Express in France (he is not a U.S. cardholder) to initiate a dispute.
American Express refused. According to the passenger:
“So I just called the Platinum line. No refunds for non-refundable tickets. Period.
“I then called AMEX France to request a chargeback. They refused to open the case stating that they have been instructed, as Air France is a partner, to not open any cases.
All reimbursement cases have to be processed by AXA as an insurance claim.“So now even AMEX Platinum is washing its hands. Unbelievable situation.”
(AXA is a French insurance company that underwrites insurance on many American Express tickets)
This represents an even more sinister shift in the game airlines are playing against consumers.
Credit card companies are supposed to have our backs, not the backs of merchants who prey on customers in an inherently weaker position. If this becomes the new norm, we will see a protest against credit card companies that will be even harsher than against the airlines.
CONCLUSION
Shame on American Express for playing this game. Look AMEX, you are aiding Air France in breaking the law by refusing to put pressure on them to refund a cancelled flight. The law is clear. Air France will lose. AMEX lose. But in the meantime, consumers are losing.
This is pretty shocking. And shows the level to which Corporations, even in light of bailouts and Govt. assistance, are stooping to so as to preserve cash. I’m starting to think Bernie Sanders is right.
Not to get political, but just about anyone who has worked long enough in corporate quickly realizes that upstairs they’re run by greedy scum, who are slaves to shareholders and their own inflated salaries. Maybe we don’t need to be as far left as Bernie but he has the right ideas.
please stop posting, depressing posts….can you write a happy one
Check back this afternoon! 😉
Watch now the government will go and offer the airlines financial help. The airline industry should actually have criminal charges against them.
You would think they would offer to help out stranded tourists.
We are currently in the middle a of month long trip and are currently stranded in Puerta Princesa. Our trip origanally had 12 flights and 12 hotels booked. Because of obvious reasons our origanl trip plans are out the window. We are now attempting to return to the states which requires canceling flights and rebooking. You would think the airlines would be more understanding during these tough times. Most will not issue any refunds. If you rebook with them they charge a rebooking fee. Right now they want to charge me over $4000 for a flight from Manila to LA.
On the other hand the hotel industry has been very understanding, we have received full refunds from all our booking and even offered a free room if we are stranded.
Thats wy countries like Venezuela went towards socialism, because blood suckers companies that don’t care about people, employes or clients..Pity because the left are not better. Take a look at Venezuela now.
There are corrupt people on all sides, that doesn’t mean that democratic socialism won’t work, it just has to be in the right hands
I’m out 13K, with Singapore airlines offering me a non transferable credit good from Dubai only. I’ve contested the charge with Amex. If they don’t stand with me, I’m going to have to terminate my relationship with Amex.
Air Canada is doing the exact same thing. Credits only. It is just ridiculous.
Guess the result of all this once everything has settled is that people should review who they partner with to do business and what cards they keep in their wallet. American Express wont issue a charge back than maybe its time to ditch them for one that was more customer focused during all of this. Take United & Delta for example in the US, I have read nightmare stories of people on many blogs trying to get a refund from United but nothing but praise on Flyertalk about Delta issuing refunds even on non-refundable fares and upgrades. Along with my own experience of Delta issuing me a refund instead of a voucher without having to press the issue or speak to a supervisor.
United was horrible about redepositing my miles. Flight was canceled and they still wanted to charge me $75 to put the miles back into my account. I wrote e-mails, Tweeted, called…no one would budge. I felt bad for the agent I spoke with…she was genuinely sorry but said there was nothing she could do. She told me that they received an email that day instructing them to not waive the redeposit fee. Didn’t matter one bit that I was a million miler.
I had a cancelled conference in April for which I was flying Delta. After the conference cancelled, I went online and was able to request a refund without talking to anyone. The purchase price of the ticket was returned in a mattern of days to my account without any fees deducted. I am such a huge fan of Delta after this. Unfortunately, I do not live in a Delta Hub city (DFW).
Please keep posting this type of information. It is very important you do so as you could save consumer losses.
@ Matthew — Yes, please! I will be terminating all business with certain companies after this passes.
+1
Similar situation happened to me last week. Non refundable ticket. Cancelled by Air France. Did not offer refund. Told me to go to AXA. I contacted Amex, no charge back because it was non refundable. I escalated to a supervisor, no go. Not sure if it’s because they’re overwhelmed or what but I got so upset I canceled the last cards I had with them. Will file DOT, AG and CFPB complaints. Unfortunately those have proven useless in the past. The flight does not originate or end in the US, so my options are very limited. It seems Amex is the most unfriendly company when it comes to actually fighting for a chargeback on behalf of the customer nowadays. Chase seems to be a second close.
I agree that Chase is a second close. But that was a couple of years ago so I won’t go into the details.
How would an average card holder know whether AmEx US has a “partnership” with any airline similar to that of AmEx France’s partnership with AF? It’s not clear from the any AmEx Travel wording to what extent AmEx partners with airlines aside from selling tickets on their behalf through AmEx websites. I’m worried we’ll start to see this in the US and elsewhere as more and more passengers and infrequent travelers start wising up and ask for chargebacks since some airlines are being less than forthcoming.
Membership Reward airlines are technically partners. Delta/Air France/KLM is a big partner in the USA too. I don’t know of any reported cases yet where U.S. cardholders have been denied a chargeback, but I’m curious if anyone will chime in.
Excellent point about MR. I think Joe Consumer would be forgiven, though, if they were caught completely off-guard by this new(?) policy of not issuing chargebacks based solely of “partnerships” for MR transfers. Shady as hell all around.
I found a simple solution…brought my AMEX balance to the exact, to the penny, cost of my canceled ticket…filed complaint with AMEX…it’s now their problem!
Disputes are part of U.S. law (15 U.S. Code § 1666) so you’d think you’d have a better chance of the issue being investigated if it was put on a U.S. AMEX.
Doesn’t guarantee you won’t get the runaround, but at least they have to initiate a dispute.
I recently ran into this with Delta for a trip in April 2020. They cancelled my original flight at 6pm and instead put me on a flight that day at 5am (which I wouldn’t be able to take). I contested the change and the only thing they would issue me was a voucher with flights to be completed by October 2020 (based on the booking date). When I inquired about the extension to 31 Dec 2020, they informed me that, since I purchased a basic economy ticket, it is the only form of compensation that they are authorized to provide. American Express would not file a claim with Delta, citing their partnership and suggested that I work it out with the carrier.
Matthew have you reached out to AMEX or AF for comment?
Yes I did. No response…
Matthew, it’s Amex France that is doing this. Not sure about the US.
I made that clear. Hopefully it doesn’t spread to USA…
I think not Air France and Amex have a legitimate right to not refund the ticket, and it is an insurance issue that falls under the purview of AXA as the insurance provider. And I am a consumer. Sorry, but both companys cannot be faulted for this.
Another AF PR agency, laughable response. AF has taken customers’ money and not provided a service. It is in violation of EU law, French consumer protection law, the March 18th EU commission notice and good faith.
Why is this an insurance issue? This situation is regulated by law.
American Express is distracting consumers… sending them to Axa who will deny the claims as force majeure. Let’s be serious.
American Express France is also violating its contract with customers as one of its benefits is offering the possibility to dispute charges.
They don’t have any leg to stand on when the flight has been cancelled by them. It doesn’t matter what the reason is, the flight the customer booked is no longer available. Therefore the vendor has no right to keep the customers money. Would be different if the flight had not been canceled and customer simply no longer wanted to fly.
How much is AF paying you for this?
I’m in the process of a chargeback for a canceled AF flight LAX-London. Chase Sapphire agent seemed to agree with me that money should be returned instead of a voucher. But we’ll see if I will actually get my money back.
I hope it works out for you David. Keep us updated.
What Amex appears to neglect is that a lot of people–esp non-churners and non-travel geeks–are paying a premium for their CS. When that goes down the drain, they really have no advantage, and cardmembers can’t justify the annual fee any longer…
I’ve found AMEX pretty poor with chargebacks over the last few years. They used to be a consumer -focused company and treated customer service as their niche that set them apart. Personally, I had the most success with Citi.
This is the beginning of the next wave of fallout measures from the impact of the global situation.
To bolster the financial liquidity of travel organisations, most have a ‘Force Majeure’ clause written into their T&C’s or Conditions of Carriage. Providing this has been included and has been worded correctly, it relieves the organisation of a financial refund in the situation when a flight or service is cancelled due to an event outside of the organisations control. It hasn’t been utilised widely previously due to the negative PR (as agreed it’s not the norm), but also because there are likely to be legal challenges as to what is categorised as a event outside of the organisations control – unless it is explicitly stipulates this. But as airlines and organisations move further into survival mode, their level of risk aversion is decreased as if there are legal challenges, by the time these reach courts it’ll be months/years down the line when they’ll likely be in a better position (or not operating).
I booked an AF award ticket using Flying Blue miles. The flight was supposed to leave today, and obviously it was cancelled by the airline. I called and they refunded the miles to my account, and said it would take 20 business days to refund the taxes to my credit card. Taxes were $550 so not an insignificant amount. I’m glad AF is at least refunding taxes on award tickets to the CC on file, because I wouldn’t have had any luck disputing a “voucher refund” with Amex. This is a terrible Amex policy.
Who would have thought france was more capitalist than USA. big busineses conspiring to screw consumers. Love it.
We must protect air france. It’s a matter of national security.
It’s called clientilsm. Cozy relationships. Remember power is very concentrated in France.
What they are doing is counting on the fact that the courts are closed and will be for the foreseeable future. It’s bad faith.
I found a simple solution…brought my AMEX balance to the exact, to the penny, cost of my canceled ticket…filed complaint with AMEX…it’s now their problem!
Also if trump is successful in getting the economy reopened before he has fixed the virus issue people are quickly going to find out the downside of not having unions.
If everyone refuses top go back to virus infested work no one loses their jobs, But if some do and some don’t, some might get fired. Are you willing to take the chance? You wouldn’t need to worry in a union.
I really hope trump does reopen the economy prematurely. Would be interesting to see people making those choices.
Extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary measures. Air France and AMEX obviously believe that the circumstances are extraordinary enough to warrant blatantly breaking EU law, and that the current benefits outweigh the future consequences and civil penalties (if any).
I sincerely hope they’re wrong, and that when this is all over courts hand them judgements hefty enough that will make them think twice about pulling this kind of stunt again.
I just learnt that Canada just issued a decree relieving airlines of their obligation to refund passengers for flight cancellations. Perhaps the EU passed a similar reprieve? If so then it’s lawful (for now).
The Canadian Transportation Agency has coped out, perhaps there is no need for them.
https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/statement-vouchers
Passenger protection issues, don’t expect anything until at least June 30. https://rppa-appr.ca/eng/file-air-travel-complaint
I saw that…very bad news. I’ll cover it tomorrow.
Matthew: I was very happy to read your timely article. I didn’t realize that
so many others were having the same issue.
Using AX Platinum travel service, I booked a business class ticket on Air France,
in Jan.departing MIA CDG BCN to depart on 04/13/2020. I was attending a Barcelona Tennis Open , that has been canceled also.
When I first contacted AX travel service regarding canceling the trip,(with a DR note,) I was told to wait until the 1st of April to cancel my ticket, in case Air France canceled any part of the trip, I would be able to get the entire cost of the ticket reimbursed back to my AX card.
When I received a notice two days ago, that a portion of my flight was canceled by Air France, I contacted AX Platinum service again. I was told by a different agent, what the previous posters were told. I would get a voucher and have to use it by January 2021. When I explained what a previous agent had told me, her answer was ” that with COVID 19, perhaps the rules are changing every day.” I had been told by the previous agent that
Delta was reimbursing the entire ticket back . I suggested that since Air France is a part of the Sky Team. shouldn’t Air France be following the same rules? She didn’t have an answer for me.
So far, I have not canceled my ticket, waiting to see if the rules will change. If
the airlines are getting a “bail-out” from the governments, perhaps they will
decide to protect the consumer.
It’s more than clear that American Express has no interest in whether their partners act in the best interests of its customers. If it did, it would have held Delta Airlines accountable for the fraudulent theft of value from its customers hard-earned points over the years. Why would they care about anybody else?
Another reminder of man’s greed and a lack of foresight.
Sadly true.
That the airlines don’t want to voluntarily follow the law is nothing new. I had to sue Ryanair in small claims court before they would pay out the 800 euros I was owed.
This is an open-and-shut case. EU law clearly states that a flight to or from the EU operated by an EU airline and canceled for whatever reason by the airline must be fully refunded if that’s what the passenger chooses. No questions, no vouchers. Full refund. He should lawyer up, they’ll pay out quick I reckon.
No lawyers are working and the courts are closed. They know it’s pointless.
There’s a legal remedy to this. At least in the United States, and I would imagine the EU has a similar law. Federal truth in lending law requires that credit card purchases be refunded when the purchased product or service is not delivered.
It falls under truth in lending because any transaction on a credit card is theoretically a loan, whether or not the card is a revolving card, and American Express Platinum -is- a revolving card anyway, because users are pretty much automatically signed up for “Pay Over Time” and “Sign and Travel” by Amex (or nagged on their site clicking a box to sign up in some cases, which inevitably everyone pretty much does even if they just pay it off every month as I do.
All that needs to happen is to dispute the charge as not received and quote the applicable statute(s). If Amex doesn’t remove it then a properly worded letter to their legal department is in order, with a copy going to the consumer protection agency governing the locality of the buyer, and to the United States consumer protection authorities in multiple departments including the US Department of Justice
Amex will back down, guaranteed. At least for a US customer. I can tell you what they could claim and why it won’t apply, but if they get the letter to their legal department, they’re likely to back down without argument further because they would lose in a court and because they are in violation of blackletter law, any pinotive damages in a lawsuit by any state or the US DOJ could be trebled for a number of reasons, including bad faith.
They might argue that this virus is an “Act of God” or of “Force Majeure,” legal terms of art that are part of your contract (“of adhesion,” which see also, as it inures to the consumer’s benefit) with Air France, a contract printed right on the back of the air ticket that you are never issued anymore thanks to e-ticketing. But that’s the job of air France to make that argument, not American Express, which is the lender in this case. So American Express may not have standing to argue that claim sans their suing of Air France as a 3rd party in any legal action.
And it doesn’t matter anyway because any provision of any contract that is unconscionable (or of adhesion) is unenforceable, and that’s a legal precedent going back 500 years if not more.
American Express could also try to force you into binding arbitration per your contract with them which I’m certain has that requirement, but again if that is considered adhesive, or if it summons you to “distant fora,” they will have trouble getting it dismissed in the court.
And your ultimate winning hand lies in the fact is you cannot sign a contract waving a provision of protection under law without it being definitionally an unconscionable provision. Therefore there is no way to waive your right to full refund for anything you do not receive that is paid for by a loan, including “non-revolving” (but actually revolving) credit cards such as American Express Platinum or any other credit card on this planet Earth.
American Express maintains merchant contracts with companies like Air France, and those contracts pretty much adhere to protecting American Express and it’s right to do a chargeback for any good or service not received by its card holder for any reason whatsoever because that is what is required for them to comply with truth in lending law, and a whole bunch of other laws.
So that means that American Express absolutely -must- charge back Air France to comply with law, which Air France cannot stop — they can fight the chargeback and on the third round it goes to a binding arbitration between them and American Express, and that arbitration can be binding because these are businesses dealing with each other and there is not a consumer involved. I have dealt with such chargebacks as a merchant and as a consumer and I can tell you that they almost never reach that third stage because the loser has to pay the cost of that arbitration between merchant and card issuer, and -their- rules are all pretty clear so Air France knows it’s going to lose as a matter of consumer protection law so they won’t take it past one, possibly two maximum rounds of re-dispute.
So really all American Express has to do is refund your money and chargeback are France and debit the money right out of their same merchant account or just deducted from their next payment into that merchant account.
And when it comes down to brass tacks, American Express would absolutely rather do that, because they can, and legally must, versus a fight that the federal government or your state government or both could bring to American Express causing all of the attendant bad publicity and possible damages that could be possibly tripled, and all the other headaches that every business wants to avoid if they’re smart. and American Express didn’t get to be one of the top banks by being stupid. They have no real reason to want to defend Air France on this if it means taking the lumps for Air France.
And it gets even better than that in terms of your protections and the fact that you really just need to write a pretty good letter and notify the right consumer protection agency is at state and federal levels and make sure that they’re writing letters also… Gets better because any legal action would have to take place in your own state, and, your state might be really consumer-friendly.
Because American Express does business in all 50 states, they do business in your state as well, and that means your state laws will also govern. And many state laws are far more protective than federal laws, especially in the blue States. And you’re protected on jurisdiction, which must be in the state where you, the consumer, live. And you cannot waive that in a contract of adhesion without it being likely dismissed as an onerous and unconscionable provision as well as the problem of their dragging you to a distant forum.
I am certain that there are similar mechanisms in Europe and I’m guessing that there are even greater consumer protections for the European consumer, and governments even much more willing to step in and fight for you once they are notified you have been defrauded in this way.
I would be shocked if such provisions did not exist.
only one caveat here and that is if you used a business American Express card, which they love to have you hold because then you are not technically a consumer, you are a business and this is a business-to-business transaction and now a different set of laws apply and most consumer protections are lost, at least federally in the United States and in many red states.
That’s why even if I was doing business travel I would never convert my AmEx cards to business cards nor what I add American Express business cards. I am an individual consumer and I get consumer protections and I demand consumer protections as codified in law and American Express will give me those consumer protections one way or another, and yes, I have had to take it a little bit further with them in one notable case where they were a little too chummy with the company that defrauded me and failed to provide the services.
In the end American Express granted the chargeback and issued me some warning about pulling my cards without notice if there were too many of these sort of things. That’s a joke. They make a fortune off me because I have so many annual fees four cards that I hold in for cards that my wife holds, and fees for additional users on each of those four cards (Platinum, Gold, Delta Platinum, Blue Cash Rewards).
In reply to their nasty little message I told them that a court would never look favorably upon that and it could come into evidence in someone’s case who was improperly denied a chargeback and help demonstrate an atmosphere at American Express where the goal is to defraud consumers or threaten them. I also mentioned that I pay about two grand a year in annual fees, and mentioned the dozens of thousands of dollars a year I spend on their cards and my wife spends on their cards.
so they are going to honor every last charge back that I make if I don’t receive the good or service, and they’re going to do it with a motherlovin’ SMILE and no more nasty messages, unless they wanted to come back and bite them.
Or they can shoot themselves in the foot and just dump me as a card holder. If they ever did that they had better be darn careful about what they put on my bureaus because that’s another area where retributive acts could cause trebled punitive damages.
Do your homework and you will win this. You’ll need to file a little bit of paperwork and if you hold in American Express Platinum I doubt you need legal aid. You might even find an attorneynwho specializes in this sort of thing and he might want 50% of the recovery and damages in excessive the first (whatever you paid), which you would receive back in full.
So do your homework or find an attorney who loves this sort of thing and will take it on contingency. You’ll win with the first letter he sends. They will pay you back in full and they will pay his fat fee to make him go away.
You’re correct but this is France. Attorneys cannot work on contingency to reduce frivolous lawsuits. And they are not cheap. They are allowed a max 10% success fee.
Those are horrible ways to reduce frivolous lawsuits, which are far fewer than presumed by a public being wrongly told such lawsuits are rampant and to blame for everything from high prices to defensive medicine.
Here’s an example of exactly why we need contingency lawsuits if we’re going to give the average person tools to fight corporate exploitation which, 8n this case, rises to the level of felony theft.
Yea, your article is wrong and AF is right : the EU confirmed that airlines are allowed to issue a voucher valid for 1 year, after which it becomes refundable if not used. Thanks bye.
Are you kidding? They did exactly the opposite. Go peddle your fake news elsewhere.
For anyone’s reference, COVID-19 constitutes exceptional circumstances. As such, airlines do not need to provide *compensation* for canceled flights.
However, they still need to provide a choice of *refund* or *re-routing*.
The European Commission has issued a notice with guidelines on the interpretation of EU passenger rights amidst the COVID-19 crisis:
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/files/legislation/c20201830.pdf
Thanks AF’s PR department!
The EU did not confirm any such thing.
France issued an “ordonnance” or a decree stating that TRAVEL AGENCIES could issue a voucher for tour packages but that AIRLINES in the case of a ticket– i.e. not a package tour– were NOT covered by this ordonnance. AF still ignored this and instead said that they were covered by this.
Basically a lie.
Did anyone stop to think that if everyone asks for their money back right this instant, the airlines will become insolvent and no one will get their money back?
Now at least I can just use it to make my trip at a later moment and if that doesn’t suit me I get my money back a year from now. Not ideal but the best for everyone. Also anyone who wants an aviation industry in place when all of this is over.
How dare airlines pay themselves lavishly for years while cutting benefits and now have the audacity to ask for taxpayer bailouts while holding onto money illegally.
This might be a sympathetic argument if airlines hadn’t been spending all their cash on billions of dollars worth of stock buybacks including in 2019.
Let’s be honest here. Air France will be bailed out by the French government. It is keeping customers’ money to reduce the amount it needs to ask for.
Hi ,my question is why in hell did the passenger in the first place even book a tkt knowing very well that the situation is changing minute to minute and there a travel ban going on and US and Europe all have been saying stop traveling ..if this person inspite of repeated announcements by all the world to stay home still bought a tkt and whether flight was cancelled by Air France or not this guy isn’t entitled to any refun esp if he was being so stupid to purchase in the first place ..I have no sympathies for his stupidity..he’s being given a voucher which he can use to travel till November 2020 should be fine with him…stupid and callous person seriously
Err the ticket was booked months ago.
Interesting story.
I have had Amex in Spain for more than 10 years and I am also their platinum member. I think they are one of the best companies dealing with requests. Every time I had a problem they were very professional and helpful. They even put the despute amount right back to my account.
Amex is an American company, and Air France is French. They all have to obbey the national laws and comply. Air France has to refund without asking, but if they refuse,Would suggest direct law-suit. The EU rules are very clear and will need to pay with interests at a later stage.
The only negative experience was on 2 occasions when I had to ask for insurance and Amex put me through AXA, which always refuses any complaints stating that casi I not covered by insurance. In that case, I think Amex-Axe works the same as Amex-AF in France.
I have a similar situation with a French Amex card. It isn’t just Air France that they are protecting. I have had two long and ongoing cases this year against one hotel and one flight operator ‘Vueling’. Both refused to give me my money back despite breaching the contractual terms and conditions. As previously mentioned in this article the EU protects the rights to have a flight refund.
Amex initially rejected both cases when I brought a claim through the credit card. After several months of letter writing they have now accepted they were wrong to dismiss my claim against Vueling. However, they have partially refunded me the money – no idea why yet!
Against the hotel they claimed that an Emergency EU regulation protected the Hotel’s right to offer me a voucher. It does not as the Hotel never made an offer the conformed with the conditions of this emergency legislation. I am awaiting their latest reply.
Ultimately, I think Amex are trying to protect the users of their payment services i.e. the vendors. I believe they could be worried of a backlash and some vendors cancelling payment via Amex. Not to mention the relationships such as with Air France. In both my claims with Amex the decisions are made quickly in the vendors favour with rash judgements without reading the evidence. Several times they have replied in a manner that shows they did not read my letter. I had to point out the EU legislation as well as contractual law to them – strange that Amex who basically provide payment services aren’t familiar with contract law!?! They also take anything the vendors say at face value without asking for evidence. I can prove that some of the information provided by the Hotel is false yet Amex have used it in their judgement they sent to me.
It’s a very difficult time for everyone and I appreciate that includes small, medium and large business. However, it isn’t for private individuals to foot the bill. The only way to stop this is to vote with your wallet. I have been an Amex card holder for going on 10 years. I cancelled my Amex card and will not be rushing back.