Understandably, flight attendants at Alaska Airlines are angry that their union has failed to negotiate a new contract ahead of the incoming Trump administration, but barking at a first class passenger who requested a cup of coffee is just a bit much…
Alaska Airlines Flight Attendant Shames First Class Passenger Over Pre-Departure Beverage Request
View From The Wing flags an exchange that arose on Alaska flight 142 from Juneau (JNU) to Seattle (SEA) earlier this week:
Passenger gets on the plane and asks the flight attendant if she could get a coffee, she is in seat 3a. The FA responds, maybe, it depends on how nice I’m feeling, I don’t get paid until the door closes and we don’t work for free… I mean, a “no, I’m sorry, we don’t offer beverages until we are in the air” would work, but …. it, let’s be rude and introduce our drama to a random person…”
I’m deliberately not going to delve into the thickets of flight attendant contract negotiation here, but only point out:
- Flight attendants are not paid during boarding time
- They should be paid for boarding time
- Their unions negotiated higher pay for flight duty time in exchange for no boarding pay because it benefits senior flight attendants (who can hold lines on longer, nonstop flights and therefore may work the same number of overall hours but be paid significantly more than those who operate several shorter hops)
- After non-unionized Delta Air Lines flight attendants were given boarding pay, unionized carriers like American Airlines have negotiated similar boarding pay into their recently ratified contracts
- Alaska Airlines flight attendants have been unable to reach an agreement with Alaska on a new contract for several years
That last point is key: Alaska Airlines flight attendants are cranky (and understandably so). With a new more “pro-business” administration coming in January, I would not expect much help from government arbitrators at the National Mediation Board, at least anything more than has already been offered.
But even if there is genuine valid concern over the stalled contract, taking it out on customers is unacceptable. Alaska has asked its flight attendants to serve pre-departure beverages. Asking for coffee prior to takeoff may specifically be too much (due to the time involved in brewing a pot of coffee), but the request could have been handled in a far better way.
The snark and the bitterness are unacceptable and grievances should be addressed toward the union, not passengers. I strongly support flight attendants earning a living wage and think the disparity between junior and senior flight attendants should be addressed immediately through boarding pay, but internal matters should not be litigated with first class passengers. It’s tacky…
image: Alaska Airlines
Most definitely ! … Save the snarky comments for the ”untouchable” masses in the back of the bus !
The FA was correct because hot coffee is dangerous before and after take-off ; boarding passengers could bump her and spill hot coffee on her foot , for example ; and passenger didn’t ask using the “Alert method” .
1. The FA was not correct as their reasoning had nothing to do with safety and was solely predicated on their lack of compensation for the refusal to provide beverage service prior to departure.
2. I’m not sure how many times you need to be told this, but I’ll try again, you do not place a space prior to punctuation in a sentence. Given how often you comment, you should have noticed by now that you’re the only person that writes this way.
3. Is your hobby reading multiple FF blogs and posting the most obtuse opinions? Is it trolling? I’m starting to wonder as it seems far too subtle.
Dead on. Totally obtuse answer. If the FA cited safety, fine. They cited “not being paid, so no service”.
As the kitchen maid said to Antoinette , “I am no longer your groveling servant” .
Thank you for avoiding a relevant reply . Rather than relevance , it is confusing to a reader to see a misuse of the words ‘obtuse’ and ‘punctuation’ . Yawn .
However she didn’t have to be a bitch about it. She could have simply stated “I’m sorry sir or madam we are not allowed to serve any beverages until the plane is in the air”.
The tradition for paying only after the door closes is indeed quite odd and counter to what an uninformed passenger would anticipate. But that is how labor brass likes it, as it allocates a larger slice of the salary pie to those with seniority. This FA should save her commentary for Sara Nelson.
How dare the FA’s be held to the contract they negotiated and signed.
How dare the serfs thumb their noses at the Duke !
If F/A feel they are not getting paid/working until the door is closed, then they should NOT close bins, prepare cabin for departure (carry on bags are stored) coordinate briefings before boarding aircraft, discussing important info with cockpit. Again, all of this is being done BEFORE aircraft door is closed.
Oh it’s going to be a huge wake up call for passengers especially anyone who’s working on an AFA airline. I don’t know if you heard the news
So , what is the “news” ?
Oh you’ll find out shortly and you’ll see the difference soon enough
Oh honey this is the only the start. It will be happening very soon at United as well with the most recent news. Remember you have a choice in carriers. Enjoy your flights 🙂
So , what is the “most recent news” ?
The economy is slowing and hopefully this brings layoffs for you.
“Understandably, flight attendants at Alaska Airlines are angry that their union has failed to negotiate a new contract ahead of the incoming Trump administration…”
Pardon me for some confusion, but what does the “incoming Trump administration” have to do with any of this? Seems more of a beef between the union leadership and the members. But if there is something more, please explain.
The National Mediation Board is likely to get new Board members with the new administration, and they likely will be more favorably inclined to management than union.
This seems like a premature unfounded assumption. So far, some of the appointments of the incoming administration have hardly seemed favorable to corporations, RFK Jr. for example is preparing to take on the extremely powerful pharma industry. It’s ridiculous that flight attendants who are CLEARLY working during boarding, aren’t getting paid for that and I hope they are able to successfully challenge that.
Most FAs are usually good in my experience but there are always bad apples, unfortunately.
It was a spur of the moment frustration thing, it was not the end of the world. Sure, they should not have taken out their feelings on a customer but when you are angry you are not thinking about how your actions are going to look like in someone else’s eyes.
A quick correction…
I am a Southwest flight attendant. We do not have boarding pay.
At Continental we always served pre-departure drinks including coffee. Everything was picked up before take-off. Any coffee left was promptly dumped down the drain and the pot was secured along with everything in the galley. We weren’t paid till the door was shut either.
So what? So if you aren’t working, why do you then have authority over boarding passengers?
So you just selectively do what you ant, and don’t help customers?
Embarrassing attitude.
They would not be “selective” if they simply said “No”.
“No”.
Mike Schmidt…
I don’t know if you were responding to me or not….
However, the original article/blog stated that airlines such as American and Southwest had recently secured boarding pay in their new contracts. I was just pointing out that that information was incorrect and the author has since corrected the article.
I was not trying to imply anything else.
Entitled, coddled, spoiled, unionized assholes.
In a normal country she’d be “not working for free” somewhere else by now.
What is a “normal country” to you? North Korea? Because in the US and Canada and all of Western Europe, the flight crews are unionized. In Mexico, the pilots are unionized. Cathay has a pilots union, and Singapore has a union for all non-executive staff.
Oh wait, you just wanted to trash unions because it makes you feel like a big man. Well, you’re 0-1, big man.
Yeah, because you’d work for free at your job everyday for a few hours, right?
On the other hand…
History doesn’t show that companies offer better wages and working conditions because everyone was “comfortable.”
Jeez. If this is true slap her back to the Stone Age and get her away from the public.
You pointed out the Union’s part in the negotiating process, but failed to point out that management also plays a pivotal role as well; so perhaps you could be less bias in your blog reporting.
I remember the days of getting a drink in first while the plane was boarding.-pre 9/11 .
Labor Unions = Bad, I got it.
If you don’t like it = Quit, I got it.
Forget that FA are human, I got it.
Use Social Media to be Political, I got it.
When I did it back when = I put up with it, I got it.
How we’ve become so GD petty, I don’t get, but we now deserve each other
Disgusting. Some FAs really should be made unemployed.
FA’s are paid basic plus air flying time, so boarding fee is part of their basic pay!
Funny, most responses are about discussing contracts, unions yada yada. Your point was simply about the manner in which the FA responded. But most US Passengers are so used to being treated poorly that they fail to make the difference between US airlines horrendous service and the courtesy we are used to on ME3 airlines and asian ones
Ridiculous. So if they are not working, they have no authority, either? And if an emergency should happen, they aren’t working so not obligated?
This type of FA attitude damages them, not the airlines. The nicer they are to the clients, the more the clients want them to get the pay they want, desire, request. The more they act like this, the less customers care.
The nicer they are to passengers , the more their pay will remain the same , and we would not have these discussions.
I’m always amazed by how much pre-departure drinks are so contentious. It always seems like an accident-prone inconvenience on narrowbody aircraft.
BUT this flight attendant was out of line, based on what you described. Passengers do not vote on contracts. We don’t handle crew scheduling, galley size, miscatering, oppressive work rules… we’re just trying to get somewhere. A petty, angry remark makes the flight attendant appear shallow and punitive.
Flight attendants have long struggled with public opinion. As safety professionals, they should seek to be professional in EVERY aspect of their performance. If it was going to be too difficult to serve a drink, the response is, “Things are a bit hectic, but I’ll make sure that you get coffee and plenty refills once we’re in the air. Thanks for being so understanding.”
As with so many customer service problems with airlines, there is an unshakable tendency to vilify passengers. Passengers often have unreasonable expectations, but shaming doesn’t fix that.
“This is a very full flight!” “I can’t believe you have to use the washroom!” “You should have known that was an untenable connection!” “No I can’t get you coffee. Can’t you see we’re boarding?” Passengers make regrettable choices all the time, but sneering condescension leaves everyone unhappy. Problem solving is part of any customer-facing job.
As for how much anyone is paid, that’s a problem between the company, the union, and the employees. Passengers have no say, so don’t make it our problem.
Flight attendants (not Delta) have historically strong collective bargaining protections, and we are moving from a strongly pro-union presidential administration to what we presume will be a less supportive administration. The unions will need to figure out how they are going to protect their employees in a different political climate. But that’s the union’s problem; it’s not about asking for coffee.
If it were up to me, I would be urging flight attendants to think about their health insurance as a union issue. Boarding pay matters, but health insurance matters a lot more.
As for me, I always bring coffee on board to sip during boarding. It’s worth a few bucks for coffee that tastes better.
Great you bring your own hot coffee , and sip it in the cold plane in Chicago at 6 am , on January 1 . I nearly froze boarding a cold plane at 6 am in Chicago during a blizzard . Great suggestion .
Meanwhile , the FA ought to simply have told the entitled passenger : “No”.
Simply “No” .
If you never worked as a FA or in the industry for that matter, your opinion is frivolous.
Oh, same for politics? You’ve never been a politician so your viewpoints on political matters are “frivolous?”
No thank you.
The author of this story unfortunately misses the big picture and doesn’t understand how flight crew pay works and airlines work Yes, “technically” Fight crew pay (including both pilots and flight attendants) starts when the door closes and the plane is ready for push back. It also stops when the plane is parked at the gate and the door is open. So to the uninformed observer they could twist things around to interpret that as FAs not getting paid for the whole boarding and deboarding process. They could also say that the pilots aren’t getting paid for their pre flight planning work, walk around plane inspections, setting up the plane for flight, checking weather, programming the computers and doing their checklists !!
What this author doesn’t get as he tries to spin his story to twist a technicality around……….is this is all baked into the hourly wage that pilots and flight attendants get. Could they change the pay structure so that it starts and finishes at different points? Sure they could. But in doing so they would all get less per hour total so in the end it would all come out the same. It’s the days worked and how much they make per month and year that matters. How contracts are negotiated and people paid can be structured in all sorts of ways writers like this just don’t get.
I’m in agreement with you – I know it is baked into the hourly rate. That’s what senior FAs wnated and what unions got for their senior FAs.
That is why I think is is dangerous that demagogues like Sara Nelson are crying about boarding pay now when it was their idea (no boarding pay) in the first place to extract higher wages when the door closed.
So if a flight attendant is injured helping a passenger with luggage during boarding are they covered by workers compensation?
I’ve addressed this:
https://liveandletsfly.com/flight-attendants-lift-carry-on/
Matthew, can you please explain to me why it is or was advantageous for senior flight attendants to not be paid for boarding time?
Jimbob…
I believe the theory is that senior flight attendants can hold trips where they only work one or two long haul flights a day and therefore only board one or two flights a day…
Whereas junior crewmembers are generally working trips that have three or four flights a day….
More flights to board for the junior flights mean more boarding pay for them.
If at work you should be paid. Union or not. I’m here wearing your uniform doing stuff required by you my employer is working. Period. If I am sitting legs crossed running my mouth, or playing double U casino not working. Getting some customer his coffee is working ,loading bags seating people dealing with their shitty attitudes working. Those are some of the many jobs a F/A has I am sure.One of very many I am sure As the phrase goes FU PAY ME! Or I go home. Enough said .
Yeah sure, she should have said, I’m not a waitress!
I’ve never been a fan of unions—Karl Marx warned us! Once the union boss gets perks like private jets and club memberships, they’re just factory owners in disguise. Delta flight attendants must laugh all the way to the bank—no union dues, no “mafia boss” lifestyles and Democratic Party to fund.
The results of DEI hiring.
This topic reminds me that organized labor would help to make the USA into a much better place to live but sadly declined due to a variety of factors in particular being the infiltration of organized crime. I’m surprised the FBI didn’t so something to root it out but perhaps there was little bi-partisan interest in doing so.
In addition… this brings to mind the interesting paradigm of modern labor that the human touch of someone bringing you food and drinks in a flying tube is extraordinary. FA’s resent their multi-faceted role of sky-warden, emergency service provider, and for most of the time, well, waiter.
Why didn’t the passenger fulfill their thirst by buying coffee in the terminal and bring it on? Time to learn to take care of yourself.