My family flew from Zurich to San Francisco on United after a few weeks in Europe. United was great. My son Augustine…not so much.
Yesterday I wrote about how nice the flight was in terms of service, seat, food, etc. But I left out something. A key detail, really. My little two-year-old was not a happy passenger. In fact, he whined and cried for much of the flight…
The curse of westbound flights from Europe is that they tend to leave in the late morning or early afternoon. That means the little one is wide awake and even a darkened cabin and lie-flat bed does not lead to sleeping.
Everything started out well enough. We boarded and Augustine was thrilled to be back on airplane again. He took his seat dutifully and nicely thanked a FA for a glass of water prior to departure.
During the extended taxi (we were delayed a bit), he fell asleep. We were hoping this would have occurred after takeoff, because we knew this would be it for his afternoon nap. The roaring engines woke him up as we took off and he was suddenly alert again.
Still, he was on good behavior. He read a book and played with his toy airplane while we waited for lunch. Lunch came and Augustine ate. So far, so good.
But things only went downhill from there. The cabin lights were dimmed and I prepared Augustine’s bed. Nope. He began to squirm and whine. He didn’t want to sit down: he wanted to roam the plane. He refused to lay down and he refused to sit still. Here we were locked into a metal tube and the little sucker knew that our options for addressing his disobedience were quite limited. He took full advantage of that.
I put on The Lion King on the IFE, but he wasn’t interested in watching: he wanted to roam like Simba. We tried a couple other Disney films and he just would not sit still.
Exasperated, we made several laps around the economy class cabin. But each time we returned, Augustine squirmed and whined when he was placed in his bed. I’m sure the other passengers loved us…
I took him back to economy class and we tried to sit in an open row there. Nope. He wiggled his way out of the seatbelt and took off running.
Fast-forward eight hours into the flight. The kid finally had enough (after all, it was now almost 10:00 PM CET) and promptly fell asleep. He slept through the landing…the gentle thud on the SFO tarmac did not wake him up. We had to gently shake him awake when we pulled up to the gate…
CONCLUSION
Go ahead and queue the debate over whether children belong in premium cabins. What makes disturbing people in business class more pernicious than disturbing people in economy class? I paid for his own business class ticket…he’s too old to be a lap child. If we are going to be inconvenienced while he’s in this “stage” of life that makes flying difficult, we might as well be inconvenienced in a seat we can at least stretch out in and hope that he gets some rest in.
But the key is departure time. United has a 5:25 PM flight from Frankfurt to San Francisco. Next time, we’ll use that one. By the time dinner is served, it will be his bed time and hopefully he’ll fall asleep. The outbound flight on SWISS from Los Angeles to Zurich, which leaves after 7:00 PM, was far less problematic.
Some of you may suggest that Augustine not fly until he is a bit older and able to keep himself entertained with the onboard IFE. That day will come soon enough, but I’m not willing to keep him away from his grandparents in Germany until that happens. He’ll be returning this summer.
Maybe it wasn’t as bad as I imagined. When he finally fell asleep, I went back to the galley to get a grilled cheese sandwich and some tomato soup. The passenger seated in front of me was also in the galley. I apologized to him that my son had been loud and he looked at me surprised and said, “Hey man, your son is doing just fine. Don’t worry about.”
That little affirmation helped me greatly, even though I am positive the man was just being nice.
But I must admit I am sad. My little traveler is not a very good traveler. At least not yet…
Stay tuned: on Saturday, Augustine will offer a rebuttal of my assessment as he publishes his own review of this flight.
LOL – you just had to burst my bubble. Our son was a perfect little angel when we flew to Florida last month, so I’d finally decided to loosen the reigns and let him fly a little more. Guess I should be prepared for the Attila the Hun routine next week… 🙂
He was a perfect gentleman on our connection from San Francisco to Burbank.
How were you able to keep him sleeping when you had to turn the flat bed back into an upright seat and have him seatbelted in prior to landing? My 2 your old had a similar experience that you describe, but when they made us put the seat back upright 45 MINUTES before landing that woke the 2 year old and he proceeded to scream as loud as he could for the final 45 minutes of the flight. That was definitely not a pleasant way to end our journey.
He was in such a deep sleep that even when we put his seat up he remained asleep sitting up. As an aside, we did not have to put the seat up until about 10 minutes prior to landing.
Quoting you: “What makes disturbing people in business class more pernicious than disturbing people in economy class?”
The same thing that makes an out of control kid disturbing people in a fine dining restaurant more pernicious than the same thing happening at McDonalds.
Bad analogy. More like a cheap hotel versus a luxury hotel (or whatever you might call United Business Class).
Why do you consider this a bad analogy? In a hotel, you can move to another area. In a fine restaurant, you’re pretty much stuck where you are.
But in the hotel you can keep the tyke in the room, where he is disturbing at most the adjoining rooms….unlike the plane, where he was running around the cabin and screaming for most of the flight. as per your account.
To be clear, he was only loud when in his seat. When he was up and about, he was quiet.
So he only screamed for much of the flight, and was quiet while running through the aisles.
I’d still like to know why you don’t like the initial analogy.
For the same reason as Gabriela below.
People taking their kids to a fine dining place are making a choice about the restaurant when there are usually a hundred other options. People flying usually are doing so because there’s no way to drive from LA to Germany and why aren’t they allowed to be a little more comfortable if they are willing to pay for it?
One still has the choice not to take an out of control toddler to a premium cabin.
And obviously one is allowed to do so. That doesn’t make it a good idea. And just for the record, I’ll advocate the flight crew coming down *hard* on disruptive adults.
Other adults on the plane have the choice of chartering a private plane if being part of a society that includes children bothers them.
Bravo, I’ve had to tell this to people who don’t seem to fly J (let alone F) often and therefore have an overstated expectation of what premium travel is. It’s still a commercial flight, you aren’t shielded from society, and you have no legitimate expectation of privacy. It’s not your home, you’re still surrounded by hundreds of people. Fly private next time if you want to avoid the hassle of humanity around you.
I don’t ever want kids of my own, but if a parent gets a kid in a premium cabin and does their best to keep the kid quiet, there’s nothing wrong with that.
I hate those who generally fly LcCs who don’t even attempt to get their kids to behave.
Fully agree with this too. If I or another parent with kids on a premium cabin are doing the utmost to ensure our children behave, then that’s all that can be done, really. In my book it’s far worse when parents do nothing with unruly kids on a LCC “because it’s cheap” than a kid crying in J or F if the parents are pulling all the stops to calm the kid down.
I don’t know, Doug – you sound like a sour douche bag. I reckon most people would prefer sharing the flight with a lively kid with a smile on their face rather than your miserable mug….
I traveled to japan with my son at the time was 4 1/2. We went business class, he had some moments where he was cranky and wanted to cry, but he did ok….. Until the end of the flight were he barfed up all over the business class seat and cried. JAL did there best to help us out. It was very scary for me because my wife wasn’t on the flight with us. He was fine later. Still though he knows the routine and how to travel long distance and overall and understands how to behave in first class lounge and on the plane.
I traveled to japan with my son at the time was 4 1/2. We went business class, he had some moments where he was cranky and wanted to cry, but he did ok….. Until the end of the flight were he barfed up all over the business class seat and cried. JAL did there best to help us out. It was very scary for me because my wife wasn’t on the flight with us. He was fine later. Still though he knows the routine and how to travel long distance and overall and understands how to behave in first class lounge and on the plane.
Don’t worry it will get better, its just trying to get the timing of the flight, and the more they fly the better they will be. Its bad when its a 7 or 8 year old throwing a tantrum. That’s embarrassing.
lol, oh well. It is what it is…he has people he needs to see and you have to get there somehow. It’s up to each person to protect their own happiness and peace. Get some noise-cancelling headphones if you’re easily bothered by a loud child (I’ve personally been infinitely more inconvenienced and annoyed by high-pitched adult voices yammering on for the whole flight). I know it’s not a perfect solution, but life isn’t perfect. Do the best you can and try to be understanding to other people’s situations.
Well said
Yup! Always choose the bedtime flight if possible for long-hauls with small kids! I wish I followed my advice though, I’m flying with my family LAX-SIN on the SQ morning flight next month . The price we pay for redemption bookings I guess…
You never know. In my experience, sometimes the fact that it’s the child’s bedtime and they don’t have their bed/cot makes things worse. Also, the prospect of my child keeping fellow pax awake on a night flight is, to me, more terrifying than on a daytime flight.
He has as much right as anyone else to business class or whichever restaurant he (or mom and dad) wish to take him. Frankly I have no issue with kids in business for first class. I always do my best to help the parents when I can by assisting with the many bags they carry or even hold the little one if needed.
Now, dogs or other forms of breathing anxiety relieve I am less supportive….
Fine with me. Even if he was loud, there are earplugs in the amenity kit. I recommend Paw Patrol for IFE.
it’s not that a kid has no rights or full rights – it’s the lack of recourse when things aren’t working out.
People keep comparing screaming kids to drunk businessmen, but guess what, a drunk businessmen is an adult, so in the event of any truly obnoxious behavior, sober or not, flight attendants are empowered to restrain him/her, and captains are even empowered to divert flights for safety and have law enforcement meet said individual right there at the gate.
guess what recourse is when a kid is screaming and the parents aren’t even pretending to try to their part ? we get a dismissive “grow a pair and deal with it” kind of attitude.
and you think that’s apples to apples ?
Well said.
Not really. No one’s talking about parent’s ignoring their children. We’re talking about trying to deal with a restless two-year-old. It’s not a matter of control or discipline at this age: it is one of disposition and personality. The drunk disruptive adult chooses to engage in that practice. It’s not like the little guy is full of cognition and deliberately making a choice to disturb others. There is no other way to travel easily between continents. Flying becomes a necessary means of transport, not a luxury restaurant.
Likewise, no one’s talking about prohibiting children of a certain age from flying. The discussion is about the wisdom of putting a child prone to such meltdowns in a premium cabin.
Where they are far less prone to a meltdown due to the extra space than in economy class?
A two year old in economy has the same size relative to his seat as I do in Cathay Pacific first class. An in any case, as you pointed out he continually screamed when he was in his business class seat.
Re-read what I wrote…
In any case, he’ll continue to fly in the forward cabin and hopefully this problem is resolved before his next trip to Germany.
It’s the age and things will change quickly. The only flights we struggled with was when our son was around Augustine’s age. By Three years old, he was back to being a good track buddy.
Consider some of the educational iPhone apps. Those were a life saver for us when traveling.
“‘Augustine screamed when he was placed in his bed.”, followed shortly by “Fast-forward eight hours into the flight. The kid finally had enough”
I I agree with your latter sentiment, especially for the sake of his fellow passengers.
“I took him back to economy class and we tried to sit in an open row there. Nope. He wiggled his way out of the seatbelt and took off running.”
Could I take my child up into business class and sit in an empty seat to calm him down? Nice to know you feel entitled to just go wherever you want and make flying even more uncomfortable for those in economy class.
Economy class departed with several open rows. I wasn’t sitting next to anyone and he wasn’t the only baby on the plane.
So I’ll vote against a screaming toddler in the premium cabin. Some of those passengers may be on a once in a lifetime trip in premium class (unlike, say, a fine dinner). Lots of money and maybe not something which can be easily afforded again. Having a toddler running laps around the cabin just would be unfair, in mind.
We walked around the economy cabin, not the forward business cabin.
It was a one-off and you live and learn. I think you did your best to calm him down even to taking him for walks to coach and giving him a try back there.
I think people who have objections to small children in business or first class, A-expect kids to learn how to behave in a bubble (as opposed to those of us teaching them by doing things like oh say traveling in business and first class from the start and expecting them to behave up to their age and ability) and B- can always fly Singapore or Emirates or any of those luxury airlines that have suites with walls and ceilings since apparently noise canceling headphones don’t work for them the way they do for the rest of us. Keep up the good work exposing Augustine to new things and teaching him how to behave. It will make him a better and more tolerant world citizen. Clearly something the folks commenting above have yet to learn.
Play dough with shaping and cutting tools, coloring books, tablets loaded with apps and plenty of snacks are some of the things we’ve used to keep our little ones occupied on long flights. It also doesn’t hurt to carry a Benadryl to use when all else fails, assuming you’ve tested it first on the ground.
Matthew,
I have five young kids and have flown with them many times. From experience I can tell you that I have had flights 15 hours long that have been easy and flights from BUR-PHX that have taken years off my life. The problem is not Augustine, its your expectations. When I fly with them Im ready for WWIII. I dont delude myself into thinking we will be dining in business in luxury like that family facing each other in the QSuites photo. If the flight turns out great, than Im pleasantly surprised, if not, then I got what I expected. Now that my kids are a bit older (my youngest is 5) I can finally enjoy business class properly with them. When they were younger I knew that a lie fly seat would make no difference since they couldn’t sit still anyways, so out of courtesy to other people in the cabin I flew coach. There’s nothing wrong with Augustine, he’s a kid. An old man cant do a 5K marathon and a 3 yr old cant sit still for 11 hours. That’s the way of the world….
What’s a 5k marathon?
Matthew,
Before you know it your beautiful little boy will be all grown up. Cherish every moment.
One day Augustine may announce that he is moving to Australia (or somewhere on the other side of the globe)– as our daughter did recently. What you are left with is memories like this the adventure you so humorously described here.
I was going to post something similar to this. Kids are genetically engineered to cause chaos, especially two year old boys. Any parent knows this. They are also genetically engineered to grow up, move away, and break your heart. One day you and big Augustine will look back at this post and have a laugh.
Yes, crying babies and children can be annoying onboard an aircraft – regardless of class of cabin btw – but I always temper any annoyance I conjure up (mind over matter) with the fact that they mere babies, innocent children. They are children – not kids btw. I too was a baby who flew at age 1 transcon many decades ago and my mom reminded me how I screamed. I have no memory of this, but to this day the thought of it makes me recoil and pity the passengers. ‘Suffer the children.’ Sage advice.
A grumpy kid is no big deal; it happens from time to time. Headphones, ear plugs lesson the problem.
The only thing that really bothers me: seat kicking ( and some of the little terrors seem to be able to reach , even in those capsule seats). That is a direct failing of the parents.
It’s good to note that Augustine was consuming water rather than the sugar-laden drinks more commonly served to kids.
When he’s a certain age your son may ask you to delete these posts, or at least remove the photos of him, which were taken and posted with his parents’ consent (but not his).
Probably not age 3, or 10, but maybe 13 or 14 — maybe sooner than you think!
Thanks for the tip.
I’d think he would be bothered more to realize the pictures show that his parents dressed him in sandals…..with socks. I suppose it could have been worse….like putting him in Crocs.
All kidding aside, for those that argue about kids in the premium cabin, one of the comments above got me thinking:
“those passengers may be on a once in a lifetime trip in premium class (unlike, say, a fine dinner). Lots of money and maybe not something which can be easily afforded again. Having a toddler running laps around the cabin just would be unfair, in mind”
Is it any different or “unfair” for the following situations:
-drunk/disturbed person and subsequent behavior that disturbs others
-medical situation that results in commotion while trying to identify personnel, attending to passenger, ultimately having a diversion
-in-flight emergency that requires diversion etc.
-cabin crew that talk too loudly, slam doors, etc or are not interested in providing good service
Regardless of someone seated in coach or First Class, it could very well be a trip of a lifetime….and yet there are various scenarios/situations that could ultimately spoil said trip. None of which can be predicted or avoided….at one point if you travel frequently you will experience it. I don’t see how a fussy toddler, with at least attempts by the parents to rectify the situation, is any more “unfair” than any of the scenarios I listed above. Travel is unpredictable and unless you choose to pay the money to charter a jet on your own, you’re more likely to encounter any number of issues which may make the flight less enjoyable. But that’s life and it is what it is. Again it’s one thing to encounter a fussy toddler and seeing the parents attempt to do everything possible to calm him or her down….it’s another where they don’t care or don’t consider the impact to others. Last week flying on a CRJ, the guy behind me decided he was going to hang on to the back of my seat with his hand so that he could watch something on his phone….annoying? yeah, but in the grand scheme of things I just ignored it….well and shot him the look of death a few times.
Screaming kids, loud FAs, inoperative IFE, miscatering, etc…..all things that you really can’t control or predict. But you can try and mitigate or minimize the impact by investing in noise-cancelling headsets, downloading movies to your own device, bringing your own food.
You’re not alone – it happens and everyone needs to be understanding at the very least. We are not in control and neither is the child in control of their emotions and feelings. A drunk person decidedly gets drunk fully aware of the impact he might end up having on his co passengers. A child doesn’t know when his shit is going to hit the fan. So to those who say don’t bring your kid to J/F if he’s going to be uncontrollable – you’re ignorant. We don’t know if the child is going to be good or bad. They don’t come with warning signs “Will get out of hand in flight. Proceed with caution”.
The good news is we have been and we still are considerate as fcuk! It pains me to know that other passengers are in pain as a result of my childs pain. I get that some parents think “my child comes first” and while I understand how it can apply in some cases, it shouldn’t be so in J/F. And that’s why we’re overarchingly considerate and try to remedy a situation the best way we can – even if at times, it might not work.
Take for instance, I think a couple years ago when our son was about 2 (ish? I forget the age) when we were waiting to take off from MNL to HK to get home to YYZ. He was overtired (yes, it’s a thing) because the flight had been delayed AND even more delayed on the tarmac. But before getting to the delay, he was that child you see with a smile and think he should be the poster child for happy kids. So at the gate, people would compliment him for being a good dude.
Once we boarded, there was no slowing him down, he was literally in the galley… on the floor.. bawling. You can’t hold him down. Me and my wife tried everything. The crew, the angels… tried. Even a couple other flyers tried. No avail. This went on for a good 20 minutes.
The passengers were patient. You could get and feel some looks, but it wasn’t all that bad. A gentleman from somewhere in Europe a doctor who was in the row behind us noticed we did everything in the book. He finally got up and said “I know you tried all techniques to calm him down – I know because I’m a doctor. Let him be now, he will settle down once we start moving.”
This assurance helped us, and I think in a small part, helped the others too. True to his word, as soon as the plane started backing to get on it’s way…. his cries reduced in volume. And finally went to sleep all the way till touchdown.
I appreciate that CX didn’t kick us off (although they acted like this is nothing new at all) because I thought someone might raise a stink and that’s what might end up happening.
Either way, no one knew about the Hulk baby when we boarded (and landed) in YYZ in peace. For the whole 17 hour flight. He was back to his old ways of being a good kid.
Point of this long ass story is that shit happens. Be happy that there’s parents like us who give a shit about your comfort too and do everything possible to calm our children down – like Matthew did. Because God forbid you are seated with a big time celebrity family (who could easily charter a private plane btw) whose children are unruly, entitled and spoilt brats. More importantly, the celebrity doesn’t care about you and doesn’t care about their children. Which means nothing is being done to settle those children down.
Those of you who are complaining that children shouldn’t fly premium really need a reality check around parents who do not care what you think. And will not shut their children up.
To Matthew: I’m sure you’ve heard the most annoying thing in the world that I’m about to repeat: It gets better as they age 😀
Oh my God, the Baby Augie from your Swiss F flight is now almost unrecognizable in these photos. They really do grow up fast, he’s now quite the little man.
First,
Your son is adorable. It’s amazing how fast they grow isn’t it? Second you did everything that could be asked of a parent in that situation. I think the response of your seatmate says it all.
I will offer that in my experience flying at his age was the toughest. They are too active to sit still in a seat and lack the attention span to sit and calmly watch movies on an iPad. We flew BOS-DEN with the twins at 18 months and my son and I spent over and hour pacing the aisle. He was in flight entertainment. But now at 5 things have changed dramatically for us just as Kyle has noted. They are experienced travelers and are getting easier and easier to fly with.
Side note departure time is no guarantee. We did a red eye SFO-JFK with the kids at 3 hoping they would sleep. We had them in their PJ’s and evrything but no dice. They were awake most of the flight. Of course they fell asleep like an hour out from landing so getting them up was “fun”.
And that time with his grandparents is ohhhh so valuable. BZ to you for knowing that.
What’s really unfair here is that you were solely responsible for entertaining and calming him while your wife was busy watching a movie in her Polaris suite, wearing her noise-cancelling headphones and sipping a glass of champagne.
LOL. She was with him for a couple weeks and needed a break!
On a serious note, it was a team effort.
Waiting with baited breath for his rebuttal!
I don’t have kids but fall on the side that they should be allowed in premium cabins. The “you wouldn’t bring your young kid to a fine-dining restaurant but its OK in a McDonald’s” argument is compelling, but flying on airlines is an essential service. As @Matthew indicated, it’s unfair to tell families they can’t bring their young kids on trips to visit overseas family-members, especially in this day where we have increasingly globalized families. And frankly, business class is not meant to be a refined “luxury” space any longer and so I agree with @Matthew about it being odd to think that economy class passengers should be subject to children’s noise but not business class passengers. So long as the parents are doing what they can to manage their child within reason, having children in business class is just a part of life. Noise cancelling headphones and earplugs can do wonders. I would highly encourage everyone to use them!
You must be doing well if you fly your two-year old in business class.