What a sad day when Delta Air Lines is forced to issue a statement seeking to extinguish the malicious spread of misinformation online about the identity of the pilots involved in the Endeavor Air CRJ-900 crash in Toronto. What is it about the rabid ideological division in the USA that has triggered such a retreat into a twilight zone of blatant falsehood?
Delta Air Lines Corrects Misinformation About Pilots Of Delta Flight 4819
On Thursday evening, Delta issued the following update on the crash of DL4819:
Endeavor Air and Delta are correcting disinformation in social media containing false and misleading assertions about the flight crew of Endeavor Air 4819.
– Captain: Mesaba Airlines, a progenitor company of Endeavor Air, hired the captain in October 2007. He has served both as an active duty Captain and in pilot training and flight safety capacities. Assertions that he failed training events are false. Assertions that he failed to flow into a pilot position at Delta Air Lines due to training failures are also false.
– First Officer: Hired in January 2024 by Endeavor Air and completed training in April. She has been flying for Endeavor since that time. Her flight experience exceeded the minimum requirements set by U.S. Federal regulations. Assertions that she failed training events are false.
Both crew members are qualified and FAA certified for their positions.
What would prompt such a statement? Well, as you might infer from the statement, certain corners of the internet have gone crazy with unsupported claims that both pilots were unqualified DEI hires.
Per Delta, the captain has been flying commercially since 2007: over 17 years. Contrary to the salacious innuendo, he did not have training failures. The first officer was very junior, though of course she had 1,500 hours of flight time before ever sitting down in the right seat in the flight deck.
The female pilot was junior. That’s. All. We. Know.
So can people please stop saying that DEI caused this crash? At least for now?!
Unless you have proof otherwise, a female pilot is not a DEI hire. Do you have any idea how desperate regional carriers are for pilots with enough hours to fly a regional jet? The peak of the pilot shortage may be over, but there’s still a great deficit of pilots on the regional level and carriers will take who they can get.
Could it be that the female pilot was inexperienced and crashed the plane? Yes…that is a possibility. But that does mean she was a “DEI hire” (whatever that actually means…)? No!
And while I will not dignify the mistruths online about these pilots, I understand why some take offense to posts like this:
https://twitter.com/EndeavorAir/status/1533886722286788610
(to which I would direct you to this post)
But it’s far too early to make such speculations and the idea that a female pilot is somehow unfit because she is female is disgusting.
Let’s let the investigators do their work…the truth will come out and I will certainly condemn Delta and Endeavor if it somehow can be shown that the crash was due to pilot error and the pilot landing the aircraft was “unqualified” but given a pass due to DEI.
But absent such evidence, we should all just wait for a clearer picture to emerge of what happened and stop the self-serving echo-chamber of lies about how the pilots and their qualifications. Please.
image: Delta
If anything, this proves that 1500 hrs is not a guarantee of enough experience in the cockpit.
Raise that to 5000 hrs!!!
@Sean … +1 . Another problem is the flight deck is too automated for unexpected situations . The entire function of pilot has become too easy . However , nature and mechanics have a habit of throwing fast balls .
It never pays to speculate on news events like this until at least 72 hours go by. I’m a little surprised that a Junior Pilot would only be out of training 8 months but you have to start somewhere. I don’t care who is flying the plane as long as they are qualified, not drunk, not high on drugs, not hungover (unfit to fly), and not being distracted with non-pilot tasks.
Interesting that in the photo of the all female crew , they use the preferred pronoun of “they” .
As if “they” , a group of all females , is more able than a 50 year old bloke named “Chuck” , who doesn’t own a mobile phone , and smokes Marlboros .
“They” call themselves “girlpower” . Myself , I would rather have “fighter-pilot-quick-reaction-power” .
Yet their only “superiority” over “Chuck” , is fast gossip on their mobile phones and comparing each other’s hairstyles .
Since they became the pilots , the airlines have needed to install yellow tennis balls on strings , to hang in front of the planes , to show when they are getting close to the gate .
The last major commercial crash in the USA,prior to 2025, Colgan air 2009, landing in Buffalo,also involved a rookie female co pilot.Just putting it out there.Of course nothing is more chilling than the manuscript of Air France Rio to CDG,that same year,all male unimaginably irresponsible flight crew.
Blaming DEI is the MAGA shroud to mask nothing more than misogyny when it’s a woman and racism when it’s a person of color. Tacking to make sure that white dudes run the world.
Camel-a didn’t have what it takes , and neither did Brandon . We dodged a disaster . Now , Camel-a has retained a talent agent … despite her lack of talent and lack of literacy .
I voted for Hillary, Joe, and Kamala, and I’m a white male. The only House that Mango Mussolini should be in is the Big House, and Hillbilly Bear should go back to his wooden shack without a toilet in Appalachia. Hakeem should conduct an armed coup against Johnson and put his and Greene’s executions on pay-per-view with the funds donated to USAID. And MAGA Morons like you? I’ve always had the fantasy of turning Nebraska and Kansas into a gigantic concentration camp.
See, our side can play dirty too.
Now we must suffer the syphilitic tears of the mega while they pre-defend the actions of the president.
Your side is dirty it’s why you keep losing.
Nice fantasy about seizing power. You people are a minority and weak cowards the last election should have showed you that. You live in OUR country and WE tolerate you not the other way around. If push came to shove it wouldn’t end well for you people.
Well maga is correct.
Just look at the last few major incidents.
All involved dei.
The female chopper pilot in DC.
The atlas air pilot in houston
The female pilot on colgan.
Now the female in Toronto.
After a while there is a trend.
“ the idea that a female pilot is somehow unfit because she is female is disgusting”
I can think of a lot of things in our world that are far more “disgusting” than this. See Gaza yesterday, deaths from trafficking in Fentanyl and people being compared to the horrible people who killed 6 million Jews simply because they disagree with their politics.
Other than someone’s feelings being hurt by rumors, no one died. And Delta made it worse by commenting on it, which caused far more to hear about it.
Yep , far more disgusting is the transfer of millions of Treasury money to a female “community-organizer-cum-politician” for her “foundation to fight climate change” .
An excellent example of using decoys of fake-“crises” to enrich Dem politicians with Treasury money .
No female would be interested in doing what The Musk is doing : taking a chain saw to politician’s theft .
“The first officer was very junior, though of course she had 1,500 hours of flight time before ever sitting down in the right seat in the flight deck.
The female pilot was junior. That’s. All. We. Know.”
No. Actually we know she DIDN’T have 1500 hours because she has a limitation on her certificate.
HOLDER DOES NOT MEET THE PILOT-IN-COMMAND AERONAUTICAL EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS OF ICAO.
What, in your opinion, does that endorsement mean?
It’s a loophole to 1500 hours because the ATP is considered a “Restricted-ATP”. Not to debate the merits of whether the 1500 hour rule actually does anything or is it an arbitrary number to appease some politicians, but the ICAO standard is the ATP certificate and this basically says “you can fly as a crewmember but not be a captain.” It’s obtainable as low as 1000 hours depending on the training one receives.
CBS News says she earned her unrestricted ATP in January 2023. The FAA database isn’t always accurate either so don’t take it as Gospel.
The FAA Database is updated as soon as OKC processes a certificate. How can an unrestricted ATP be issued in 2023 when the Database says something issued in January 2025 is restricted? CBS News isn’t always gospel either. Whatever the Database says is what shows up in your airman record, so for FAA purposes, it pretty much is gospel unless you have a recently issued, temporary certificate.
diversity is our weakness
Go back to Russia then. They are really thriving with their non diversity
Na, you go. We are the majority, this is our country. We allow you to stay.
@AndyS, spoken like a true fascist, well done. Next time you’re in the minority, don’t you dare assert any of your constitutionally recognised rights (speech protections or otherwise).
This has nothing to do with gender or race. Based on the ATC communications from 4819, the Pilot Monitoring PM operates the radios which in this case was the male, which means the Pilot Flying PF was the rookie who happened to be female.
Well when you blast social media talking about your company’s obsession with female pilots and “unmanned” flights THATS WHAT YOU GET.
You are just mad because every girl in that photo would turn you down. Your blow up doll is in for a rough night
Oh I’ve had much better than THAT. What about you Billy Bob? Have you even been with a woman in the last ten years who wasn’t a prostitute, or your sister, or both?
You’ve had better than that? Sorry bud, you don’t get to count the girls youve jerked it to
17 years flying and STILL did make it to mainline? hmm?
Where have you seen that stated in relation to pilot hiring?
Sorry, was meant for Andrew H
“United Airlines has a commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in its hiring practices and workforce. The airline has taken steps to increase the representation of women and people of color in its workforce, including launching a flight school and creating employee resource groups. ”
And here is how Kirby tries to explain it…
“And while we do hire on merit, we can hire the absolute best of the best and have a naturally diverse workforce.”
Its a logical fallacy to say that they need to prioritize DEI hiring but at the same time say that the “best of the best” are naturally diverse.
If that’s the case then there is absolutely no need for any mention of DEI at United.
@Andrew … +1 .
JFC do we have to play out this “logical fallacy” a million times. The whole point of Kirby’s statement is that by expanding the pipeline from the ground floor, the sheer volume of best of the best expands. The pipeline is (unintentionally) biased towards white males.
We live in The Age Of Lies, and we are all drowning in bullshit. America made great again.
A lot of people (especially right-wing politicians) have seemingly turned DEI into their new scapegoat for everything.
When you overtly state that attributes other than competence factor into the hiring process then the logical conclusion is that standards will be lower.
@Andrew … +1 .
Because dei has shown to be a failure and In the case of aviation, deadly
Some basement-dwelling incel types are threatened by capable women and minorities and make up crazy stories to try to somehow justify their views. They don’t see how pathetic it looks when they make up lies to explain away their personal failures but that’s on them, not normal people. It’s weird though that the vast majority of the people making up or disseminating these lies belong to the political right.
Reality shows the right wing is right again. The failures of Dei are pilling up
“What is it about the rabid ideological division in the USA that has triggered such a retreat into a twilight zone of blatant falsehood?”
Matthew, maybe you should ask some of your progressive friends why some folks who drive Teslas around LA have a sticker on their car that basically says that just bc one drives a Tesla does not mean one likes the man (Musk), so to avoid having the car keyed. I would guess that the people keying cars like Teslas for political spite think themselves superior to those who are politically different. The nastiness exists on both sides of the political spectrum, and not just online. Unfortunate…
I am a GenXr and never believed the US would devolve into an Oligarchic/Fascist state in my lifetime. I am sad. We are better than this. Let’s do better.
People like you harm our society and we are correcting our social errors
Maybe one day we all can live in a world where investigation and actual facts lead us to a conclusion. Then reasonably discuss an issue. Obviously this is not today.
May America be as fortunate as the Delta Jet in Toronto, where everyone survived and is now safe – and the Right Wing disappears forever….
Not surprising you want the right wing to disappear. People like you flourish in ignorance and without any accountability. We are holding the failures of progressives accountable. This crash is another example of the failure of progressive politics as was the dca crash.
Andy – I have a great visual image of you. Small cranium and large BMI.
Paint your bathroom wall with your own brain matter.
He He He He – You Funny
Why was DL not forthcoming about releasing the names and qualifications right away?
Other recent incidents have had crew details released far faster. The captain was a sim instructor and had other flight safety qualifications. He was on the radio so typically the other person is doing the flying. A person with a distinct lack of experience in dealing with this set of challenging conditions. Why did the captain not take over prior to touchdown. No shame in a go around. Clearly lessons that should have been learned at Colgan have not been.
A. Releasing specific information about an accident is typically done only by the investigative body
B. What public benefit is there to releasing name, other than to subject the person to harassment. Similar with gender. Releasing information like flight hours and time licenced is far more relevant.
When Endeavor put that tweet out, they 100% owned themselves and admitted that DEI optics are way more important than actual merit. And then planes crash. Imagine that.
Imagine we only allow straight white men on the flight deck. Then I’m sure we all will be safe forever.
It probably would be much safer than lowering standards to allow “diversity”.
Or they just celebrated an occurrence that is very rare since flight decks are dominated by white males.
In looking at the X Post in this article, it’s the airline company, Endeavor Air, that’s directing the attention on gender with the headline that mentions “GirlPower’. They started the focus on gender instead of qualifications not the MAGA. Why didn’t the X post headline highlight their qualifications instead of their sex? Maybe there wasn’t much to boast about in that category? If anything strikes me in that picture is their age! Whether it’s male or female, I’d much rather have a seasoned pilot (male or female) at the stick rather than a group of youngsters.
That is the point. If it is established that pilot error is to blame for the crash, it is not because it was a woman, it was because she did not have adequate experience to land in those conditions.