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Home » Law In Travel » Sean Duffy And Elon Musk Fight Over Firing Air Traffic Controllers In Explosive Trump Cabinet Meeting
Law In Travel

Sean Duffy And Elon Musk Fight Over Firing Air Traffic Controllers In Explosive Trump Cabinet Meeting

Matthew Klint Posted onMarch 8, 2025 31 Comments

a group of men sitting at a table

Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy and Elon Musk, a senior advisor to the President, openly argued in a recent cabinet meeting, seemingly at odds over air traffic control staffing in a quibble that was exacerbated by President Trump’s suggestion about new hires.

In This Post:

Toggle
  • Report: Duffy And Musk At Odd Over Air Traffic Controllers
    • Trump Wants MIT Geniuses As Air Traffic Controllers
    • A Warning To The Secretary Of State
    • CONCLUSION

Report: Duffy And Musk At Odd Over Air Traffic Controllers

The New York Times offers an explosive account of Trump’s cabinet meeting on February 26, 2025. I want to focus in particular on a purported exchange between Duffy and Musk, since it involves aviation (the hiring and firing of air traffic controllers):

Musk and Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy went back and forth about the state of the Federal Aviation Administration’s equipment for tracking airplanes and what kind of fix was needed. Howard Lutnick, the commerce secretary, jumped in to support Musk.

Duffy said the young staff of Musk’s team was trying to lay off air traffic controllers. What am I supposed to do? Duffy said. I have multiple plane crashes to deal with now, and your people want me to fire air traffic controllers?

Musk told Duffy that his assertion was a “lie.” Duffy insisted it was not; he had heard it from them directly. Musk, asking who had been fired, said: Give me their names. Tell me their names.

Duffy said there were not any names, because he had stopped them from being fired. At another point, Musk insisted that people hired under diversity, equity and inclusion programs were working in control towers. Duffy pushed back and Musk did not add details, but said during the longer back and forth that Duffy had his phone number and should call him if he had any issues to raise.

Wow. In fairness, Musk recently claimed on the Joe Rogan Experience that no controllers were fired or would be fired, other than for incompetence, and that the Federal Aviation Administration was actively recruiting qualified applicants.

Objectively, I’ve seen no evidence that any air traffic controllers (ATCs) were fired or that any Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) workers have tried to fire ATCs. There is also no evidence that any air traffic controller was hired due to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) considerations.

I was agnostic toward Duffy early on…but quickly soured when he used a press conference in the aftermath of the American Airlines crash over Washington National Airport to lavishly praise President Trump when his proper response should have been a sober-minded promise to get to the bottom of the crash and ensure that there were no repeat incidents.

Then he seemed to relish in taking part of Musk’s counterproductive fear campaign to make federal workers justify their roles:

Mr. President, 5 things I did last week:

1. Terminated NYC elitist, anti-worker congestion pricing.
2. Launched an investigation into the $16 billion in taxpayer dollars wasted on a high-speed rail project that, after 17 years, has yet to lay a single mile of track.
3. Saved $10…

— Secretary Sean Duffy (@SecDuffy) February 24, 2025

He later downplayed the termination of 400 FAA employees, claiming they served in non-essential roles.

But if he is finally showing some backbone and can truly focus on smartly managing the FAA, hiring more ATCs, and investing in the infrastructure needed to bring the antiquated US air traffic control system into the 21st century, then he will certainly earn my praise.

(of course as Musk tries to win a $2.4 billion FAA telecommunications contract, you do have to wonder whether all of this is simply driven by personal business concerns…)

Trump Wants MIT Geniuses As Air Traffic Controllers

The conversation then took an even odder turn when President Trump suggested that Duffy focus on hiring “geniuses” from MIT to fill the shortage of air traffic controllers.

The exchange ended with Trump telling Duffy that he had to hire people from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as air traffic controllers. These air traffic controllers need to be “geniuses,” he said.

I don’t think you need to be a genius to be an air traffic controller: just competent. There are multiple barriers to entry to being an air traffic controller including age limits, education, and the stress of the job. Hiring more people, carefully training them, and modernizing the technology they use to do their jobs will result in sufficient manpower for these roles.

There’s some fear (and I find it reasonable) that AI may eventually replace human air traffic controllers, but that is true in almost any industry these days and that risk does not strike me as a clear and present danger to choosing a career that is both respectable and well-paid.

But I know a couple “geniuses” from MIT and they are not the type that like to stick to a single career choice…they like to jump from job to job in an effort to learn more and stretch themselves. They are not the right people to manage US air traffic.

A Warning To The Secretary Of State

And a warning to Marco Rubio, here. Rubio was the object of scorn in this cabinet meeting and if you watched President Trump’s address to Congress on March 4, 2025, there was more than a subtle threat directed toward Rubio. I view Rubio as a man of integrity (at least until he attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelinskyy too) and I have to imagine he is struggling with all that has unfolded over the last six weeks.

I know this Rubio bit isn’t directly travel-related, but as the President’s principal advisor on foreign policy and representing the U.S. in international affairs, Rubio plays an important role in the exchange of nations, which is at the heart of travel.

If you’ve read Goethe’s Faust, you know that sacrificing your soul to the devil does not end well.

Gerettet oder gerichtet?

To Rubio: be very careful. Do not forget you swore to protect and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Ultimately you serve the nation, not just the POTUS.

CONCLUSION

The NYT certainly has a left-wing bias and is no fan of President Trump or Elon Musk, but I find it hard to believe that its account of the explosive cabinet meeting last month and the heated exchange between Duffy and Musk was fabricated. I applaud the President for seemingly reigning in the power of Musk and hope that Duffy can do what he promised: help create a safer, leaner, smarter air traffic control system in the USA. Godspeed…


image: White House

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About Author

Matthew Klint

Matthew is an avid traveler who calls Los Angeles home. Each year he travels more than 200,000 miles by air and has visited more than 135 countries. Working both in the aviation industry and as a travel consultant, Matthew has been featured in major media outlets around the world and uses his Live and Let's Fly blog to share the latest news in the airline industry, commentary on frequent flyer programs, and detailed reports of his worldwide travel.

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31 Comments

  1. Bobo Bolinski Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 2:28 pm

    “I don’t think you need to be a genius to be an air traffic controller: just competent.”

    We used to have the same requirement to be president of the United States. Sadly, that’s no longer the case.

    • robbo Reply
      March 8, 2025 at 5:24 pm

      We just need a massive mandate by the people, it’s called Democracy. #letsgobrandon

    • Mrs C Reply
      March 11, 2025 at 11:35 am

      Agree 100%

  2. Christian Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 2:48 pm

    “ I don’t think you need to be a genius to be an air traffic controller: just competent”

    For our current president, anyone competent at a job is a genius by comparison. I concur with him.

  3. cairns Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 4:35 pm

    Of course they’re fighting. We’re six weeks into a new administration and egos are going to clash,

    As a wrote on another airline blog which made similar comments:

    In the coming months I’m sure the MSM will look for and avidly report any rift in the Trump administration they can find. They’ll do this in order to espouse their own agenda and sell whatever media they can.

    Trump promised to drain the swamp and make radical changes. He’s doing just what he promised (unlike just about every politician who was elected). He employed Musk- who is just the guy to make things happen- he’s never worked in government and is probably appalled at the fraud, laziness and waste which is an everyday occurrence and is literally inbred to our system. Mistakes will be made- by Musk and others.

    But finally, things are getting done. Only six weeks into the administration, Democrats are irate, holding up pre-made signs and refusing to stand for even a cancer survivor. They’re acting like petulant children. But they aren’t DOING anything.

    I think Trump can and will improve our ATC system, air safety and our government. The responsibility for the Helo/RJ crash a few months ago rests squarely on the shoulders of every previous administration and the fact that they all did little, if anything, to effect actual progress.

    Kicking ass now and taking names later has worked well for many industries and applying it to an atrophied, inbred, overpaid and ineffective government is long overdue.

    To add- anyone who thinks we should continue the status quo is a loser and a luddite. I’m actually enamored of a President who can and wiil answer questions much less walk to a lectern without falling on his ass.

  4. Billy Bob Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 4:43 pm

    I’m sure MIT grads are going to be chomping at the bit to work on a civil servants salary. God, what a moron.

    • Andrew H. Reply
      March 8, 2025 at 7:27 pm

      “The average salary for an air traffic controller in the United States is around $137,380 per year, with salaries ranging from about $76,190 to $181,772 depending on experience and location.
      Here’s a more detailed breakdown:
      Median Salary: The median salary for air traffic controllers in 2023 was $137,380. ”

      Not exactly peanuts.

      • Ralph Reply
        March 8, 2025 at 8:18 pm

        For MIT grads?

        Yes. Peanuts

        • Andrew H. Reply
          March 9, 2025 at 9:17 am

          This is what my search turned up:

          https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology_(MIT)/Salary

          Do you have anything different ?

          • Billy Bob
            March 9, 2025 at 5:06 pm

            That site shows mechanical engineers maxing out at $105,000. There is NO WAY that is accurate

  5. cairns Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 4:54 pm

    I’ll try this again as the first post was apparently deleted:

    As I wrote in a similar blog:

    “In the coming months I’m sure the MSM will look for and avidly report any rift in the Trump administration they can find. They’ll do this in order to espouse their own agenda and sell whatever media they can.

    Trump promised to drain the swamp and make radical changes. He’s doing just what he promised (unlike just about every politician who was elected). He employed Musk- who is just the guy to make things happen- he’s never worked in government and is probably appalled at the fraud, laziness and waste which is an everyday occurrence and is literally inbred to our system. Mistakes will be made- by Musk and others.

    But finally, things are getting done. Only six weeks into the administration, Democrats are irate, holding up pre-made signs and refusing to stand for even a cancer survivor. They’re acting like petulant children. But they aren’t DOING anything.

    I think Trump can and will improve our ATC system, air safety and our government. The responsibility for the Helo/RJ crash a few months ago rests squarely on the shoulders of every previous administration and the fact that they all did little, if anything, to effect actual progress.

    Kicking ass now and taking names later has worked well for many industries and applying it to an atrophied, inbred, overpaid and ineffective government is long overdue.

    • Matthew Klint Reply
      March 8, 2025 at 5:07 pm

      Your comments have never been deleted.

    • Billy Bob Reply
      March 8, 2025 at 5:16 pm

      So is that your measure of things getting done? That democrats are irate?

      Musk has even admitted they haven’t found much fraud. The only fraud is musk gutting the agencies that have been investigating his companies.

      OK, so democrats didn’t stand for a cancer survivor. You know what’s more disgusting than that? Musk and trump gutting spending for pediatric cancer research.

      Trump is a loser’s vision of a success, and musk is a dumbass’s vision of a smart person

    • GUWonder Reply
      March 8, 2025 at 6:23 pm

      I doubt that your submitted comments have been deleted by Matthew.

      Sometimes the site will refresh while typing a comment and delete the comment before it’s submitted, but that is not LALF censoring you.

  6. Bob Smith Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 5:10 pm

    “Musk insisted that people hired under diversity, equity and inclusion programs were working in control towers.”

    Yeah, so what? If they are working in control towers they are qualified controllers.

    Actually, you don’t need MIT geniuses for controllers. You want somebody on the Asperger’s spectrum. They tend to be able to focus, pay attention to details, follow rules and procedures, not get overly excited when there is an issue, etc., for hours at a time better than your “neurotypical” person.

  7. cairns Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 5:45 pm

    No worries Matthew- sorry I didn’t mean to imply that you deleted it- think I got my address wrong.

  8. GUWonder Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 6:20 pm

    I am no fan of Duffy and have never been shy about my thoughts about him. But unlike Trump and Musk, Duffy is not a scammer. And unlike Musk, Duffy is not drug-damaged. This is why I trust Duffy’s account to be more accurate than Musk’s rantings on this.

    Musk’s relationship with truth and accuracy is on par with Trump’s.

  9. cairns Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 7:06 pm

    I would hope, Matthew, that you understand I never accused you of deleting my comments but rather attribute it to myself or an anomaly.

    I can’t imagine you’d do that to anyone and the fact you don’t is one of the many reasons I love this blog.

    • Maryland Reply
      March 8, 2025 at 8:31 pm

      * I’ll try this again as my first post was deleted* your words, own them. And now you say you never accused him. But you did.

  10. cairns Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 10:21 pm

    You’re a stinking sh*t and a coward Maryland. Matthew never posted what I wrote in the interim. I didn’t accuse him of deleting anything and he knows it.

    • Maryland Reply
      March 8, 2025 at 10:39 pm

      Lovely

    • Maryland Reply
      March 8, 2025 at 10:42 pm

      Please explain how I am a coward.

    • Ryan Reply
      March 9, 2025 at 12:12 pm

      You are correct when you wrote “Your comments where deleted” that you did not accuse Matthew of deleting them.
      But you flat out said your comments where deleted. When someone levels this accusation generically, its damn easy to assume that the accusation is being leveled, maybe unfairly, to the site owner.

      The nice and mature thing to do would have been to own up to your words.

      Instead, you chose the route of childish ad hominem attacks , referring to a valued poster as “stinking s*it and a coward”

      What does that say about you as a person? Are you proud of your behavior? Are you proud of yourself and your values on display?

    • GUWonder Reply
      March 9, 2025 at 1:22 pm

      Your comment was found lacking and then you decide to go onto launching baseless personal attacks in response. What’s really bothering you? Trump-Musk-Vance drive down your home prices yet after attacking the value of your holdings in the stock market with crazy Trumponomics?

      I am having a nice record year in equities with my move in January into Europe-based defense industry players. Someone has to stand up for democracy and against Putin. I may as well make money from it.

      Say hi to the grocery store parking lots for me, and let us know the price of eggs. 😉

  11. dee Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 11:05 pm

    Cairns–Well said…I agree–President Trump is taking needed action on Fraud and Abuse in our Government SYstem… The other side hates that this is happening…./

    • Ryan Reply
      March 9, 2025 at 12:22 pm

      You are dead wrong!

      Using your words, the other side hates the execution of what is happening.

      Right-sizing government is good.

      Firing a whole bunch of people without cause and without notice and without any understanding of their role in making things happen is really really stupid.

      Musk destroyed 75% of the value of twitter using this same playbook and now he’s using the same playbook against the country.

      Do you really want to be 75% poorer?

      We ALL know the playbook and where this ends.

  12. 747always Reply
    March 8, 2025 at 11:52 pm

    Musk claims no one has been fired for any reason other than incompetence.

    For a self proclaimed devout Christian, the author of this post sure believes the lies spewed forth by the lying Nazi

    • Matthew Klint Reply
      March 9, 2025 at 12:05 am

      I don’t believe him. I’m just reporting what he has claimed…

  13. James Harper Reply
    March 9, 2025 at 7:40 am

    Oh dear, the election of Criminal Trump is coming home to roost, never mind, it’s only three years, ten months and a week until you can replace him. In the meantime, enjoy the fruits of your stupidity.

    What I can’t wait for is the day Criminal Trump and Musk fall out. It will come as sure as the sun rises.

  14. Ryan Reply
    March 9, 2025 at 10:11 am

    I just don’t share the same values as our (lack of) leadership or MAGA at large. I value Fact, Science, Vaccines, Education, People, Community, Faith, Democracy and the ability to speak my mind. I value investment in our people, our economy. Current leadership, MAGA, oligarchs like Musk seem to support power and money above all else and they are willing to inflict indiscriminate pain across the population and our allies in support of that. Is their waste in government… sure. But firing people without cause and without an understanding of their role is not the answer. Its awful. I read comments from seemingly heartless people on this blog that come across as “Oh well, they are just lazy and incompetent”. That to me is a value i just don’t share and one who says that comes across to me as a narcisstic a**hole.

    I feel terrible for the people that didn’t vote for this man that have to suffer in support of MAGA’s misguided values. Do i feel bad for his supporters that suffer? Hmmm. I waffle on that one.

    All that being said, I for one can’t wait for the next painful four years to be over.

  15. Marv Reply
    March 12, 2025 at 1:58 pm

    Sean Duffy. Pete Hegseth etc. What a bunch of incompetent clowns. Heil Drumpf!

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