As we look through the rearview mirror at the COVID-19 pandemic, it is important to learn lessons for future crises, both real and manufactured. Recent testimony by Dr. Anthony Fauci on Capitol Hill suggests how little science was at the root of so many restrictions that negatively impacted not only travel, but humanity itself.
Fauci Testimony Traces Root of Travel Restrictions, Social Distancing Requirements, Masking For Children
During the pandemic, my son, who was three at the time, hadk to go to school with a mask on. Did you ever wonder what the scientific basis for that was?
On Masking
In closed-door testimony in January before the House COVID Select Subcommittee, Fauci, the former Chief Medical Advisor to the President of United States, was asked about why children had to wear masks.
Majority Counsel: “Do you recall reviewing any studies or data supporting masking for children?”
Dr. Fauci: “You know, I might have, Mitch, but I don’t recall specifically that I did. I might have.”
Majority Counsel: “Since the — there’s been a lot of studies that have come out since the pandemic started, but specifically on this there have been significant on kind of like the learning loss and speech and development issues that have been associated with particularly young children wearing masks while they’re growing up. They can’t see their teacher talk and can’t learn how to form words. Have you followed any of those studies?”
Dr. Fauci: “No. But I believe that there are a lot of conflicting studies too, that there are those that say, yes, there is an impact, and there are those that say there’s not. I still think that’s up in the air.”
The immense learning loss that occurred due to COVID-19 measures has been well-documented. Children posed a far lower risk of becoming seriously ill than adults and I saw firsthand the absurdity of forcing three-year-olds to wear masks.
On Social Distancing
How about social distancing? Why six feet instead of one foot or 10 feet?
Majority Counsel: “Do you recall when discussions regarding, kind of, the at least a 6 foot threshold began?”
Dr. Fauci: “The 6 foot in the school?”
Majority Counsel: “Six foot overall. I mean, 6-foot was applied at businesses—”
Dr. Fauci: “Yeah.”
Majority Counsel: “—it was applied in schools, it was applied here. At least how the messaging was applied was that 6-foot distancing was the distance that needed to be—“
Dr. Fauci: “You know, I don’t recall. It sort of just appeared. I don’t recall, like, a discussion of whether it should be 5 or 6 or whatever. It was just that 6 foot is—”
Majority Counsel: “Did you see any studies that supported 6 feet?”
Dr. Fauci: “I was not aware of studies that in fact, that would be a very difficult study to do.”
On Travel
What about the absurd travel restrictions that prohibited Europeans and Chinese from coming to the USA despite 1.) our transmission rates being much higher and 2.) more contagious variants had already taken hold here?
Majority Counsel: “Did you agree with President Trump’s decision to restrict travel from China?”
Dr. Fauci: “I did, and I said there were caveats to restrictions. I agreed with it, but I said we have to be careful because sometimes when you do restrictions they have negative consequences in that you don’t have open access to help or even information. But fundamentally, I agreed at that time, since we had almost no infections that we knew of in our country, that at least a temporary restriction would be important.”
Majority Counsel: “Did you also agree with the EU travel restriction?”
Dr. Fauci: “I agreed with the suggestion that that be done, yes.”
Majority Counsel: “Did you agree with the U.K. travel restriction?”
Dr. Fauci: “Yes, I did.”
Such foolishness on the part of the Trump Administration and continued during the initial months of the Biden Administration is proof that fear is a powerful public policy tool.
* * *
Fauci will face public scrutiny later today on Capit0l Hill. While I see no sinister motives in his leadership record, I hope we can agree that irrational and unscientific fear was a huge driver of public health policy during the pandemic. There is nothing admirable about that and the “we did the best we could with the information we had” excuse is not a valid defense.
The poor handling of the pandemic undermined public confidence in institutions and will make the public, including me, much more skeptical of any future “emergency orders” should a more serious threat arise in the future. It also unnecessarily increased vaccine skepticism across the board. This isn’t left-right politics, for such skepticism has united those from across the political spectrum.
Why talk about this today? Because travel depends upon free movement and our ability to travel also depends on a proper discernment of fear versus reality, particularly in relation to public policy. Perhaps the saddest long-term development of the pandemic is that we (rightfully) are now far more skeptical of the institutions in place to protect us.
This isn’t some sort of right wing conspriacy theory:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/06/02/six-foot-rule-covid-no-science/
Nothing new , actually . I’ve always suspected that every covid rule was political , and designed to herd the sheep into submission .
I have absolutely no clue if what you write is even remotely accurate or not, but I am not so sure it was all that sinister.
My impression from day 1 was that nobody had the foggiest idea of what should be done, so it was a lot of throwing darts at a dart board in hopes that something would stick.
We needed an FDR, there is nothing to fear but fear itself moment, that was the biggest thing lacking over the entire pandemic.
That’s the last thing we needed. FDR is by far the worst president in history. The only one close might be Wilson. If the “leaders” had projected confidence and maintained a consistent messaging, like Sweden, we wouldn’t have had the issues we did. I think once those in charge realized what they could do when they had the power, they didn’t want to relinquish it. Just look at how long Crusty Cuomo’s idiotic briefings went on for?
Angry Fauci demands that Congress address him as “The Science” .
Lord ScienceTM The Supreme.
Why are the words “made up” in quotation marks in your title? Quotation marks imply direct attribution – in this case to Fauci’s words. From your reporting, it appears he never said those words; they are your interpretation of his responses. That’s fine as long as you don’t mislead readers with your clickbait title.
You may quibble on semantics, but when Fauci says, “You know, I don’t recall. It sort of just appeared” I extrapolate that (reasonably, I think, though I realize you feel differently) as a clear confession he “made up” the rules.
And you also have to understand that I’ve never been personally anti-Fauci (though the comments from Isaac are very concerning) – but I think he is symptomatic of our flawed approach to the pandemic.
I’m with @Just Curious. You’re stretching things here. What you’re heavily downplaying is that Fauci was the one making all the tough decisions and as bad as Covid was it could have been much worse. We had pretty much zero info and had things been worse and he had been less stringent he would have been considered a mass murderer by the same anti-mask crowd who always want to blame somebody else. Damned if you do…
@Christian: As I said in my post, I don’t assign ill motives to Fauci. But I do think there is a stunning failure to learn from our mistakes and dismissing me as a right-wing zealot (not you, but others) shows an anti-intellectual, partisan bent that does not help prepare us for the next public health crisis.
You are with just curious with very little curiosity, info, data or even critical thinking to back it up. The data out of Italy *showed* like 90% of deaths were those over the age of 65 and then you people proceeded to shout us down and have us banned because “buuuuuht what about Gramma” and “why do you hate Gramma”. Then you shamed those of us with medical conditions over not wears a snot rag to make you feel better despite zero evidence to show they work. It was made up. It was made up to make children like you “feel better”, not fix anything. We were tortured for your feels, not based on logic, data, reason of even a plan carefully crated before a pandemic that said not to do any of these things. Then, when you are proven without a shadow of a doubt, now you want to play the game of “we didnt know”. That is bs. You did, we told you and you did it anyway.
Yea, Matt, but that is literally not what quotation marks mean.
He needed something with lots of clickbait because he knows his audience?
Judging by the number of comments, it worked.
I don’t think it is a conspiracy and I do think in hindsight things could have been done better (when is something ever not second guessed in hindsight, even the landing on the Hudson) but I do think that several times the questioning was cut off or nuances were ignored. Example of being cut off- ‘Dr. Fauci: “You know, I don’t recall. It sort of just appeared. I don’t recall, like, a discussion of whether it should be 5 or 6 or whatever. It was just that 6 foot is—”
and I’d guess he was going to say something about six feet is the known rate in which saliva travels when speaking loudly or when someone sneezes, or I don’t know because I’m not a doctor and was not able to hear the rest of his thought.
I’d also note that there was some conflicting moments as well, such as when it was assumed the rate was higher in USA at the time the travel ban was imposed despite Fauci stating that at the time he was consulted it was not known to be high in the USA and so he recommended the ban with the caveat there may be consequences re info sharing etc.
So, again, read these things and soundbites and bits and pieces and even the original questioning transcript with a little of a skeptical eye for both sides, not just using a confirmation bias one way or the other.
I am a big fan of your blog. This my 1st posting.
As a practicing internist for 36 years, and as someone who worked in the medical trenches through the worst of the pandemic, your article made me profoundly sad. As well meaning as you intended to be, from your libertarian perspective, your opinion reflects the general lack of accurate knowledge among many about the evolution of knowledge regarding COVID
In the first 6 months of COVID, transmission was believed to be “droplet based”. A 6 foot separation is widely accepted as a protection against the transmission of infections by larger droplets, which generally do not travel beyond 6 feet. In weekly updates to our large medical group, which were necessary as the science of COVID was evolving at a pace unmatched in medical history, our ID specialists supported this droplet theory based on the data at the time. Of course months later we learned, again by the process of scientific observation and experimentation, that COVID was an “airborne” virus, with a much greater range. We were building the plane as we were flying it, while faced with a virus with a clinical severity and rate of spread and prevalence unmatched in modern history.
It is a sad fact that the school and business closures caused economic and educational harm, and that often the restrictions went on for longer than necessary, but there was no alternative for the first 12-14 months of the pandemic. Our ERs and hospitals were overwhelmed. Our mortality (now 1.2 million +) was unmatched. Medical care for non-COVID care was severely disrupted as COVID care was consuming all our resources. NONE of us active in medicine have ever lived through a crisis of such magnitude.
There is no question that appropriate masking in the correct high risk exposure scenario made and continues to make a huge difference.
There is no question that the COVID vaccine, a marvel of scientific progress, has saved countless lives and greatly decreased morbidity.
Dr. Fauci didn’t “make up” the 6 foot guidance. The CDC (not the NIH) issued it, based on the best science available at the time. There has never been any disease in our modern history where the medical community has been forced to drink from a firehose of such volume of new information about the epidemiology, the clinical history and the treatment. The work of all the scientists and experts in the COVID field was exemplary.
I won’t go on, but I honestly wish you had not felt compelled to take on a subject which you are not qualified to discuss, as much as you may consider yourself an informed lay person. Ask any friend of yours who worked in the frontlines of Primary Care, Emergency Medicine and all inpatient specialties, how their December of 2020 and January of 2021 went, let alone the spring of 2020.
Very much appreciate your perspective. Thanks for reading and taking the time to write.
I have some thoughts about some of the points you brought up, but will address them tomorrow.
Thank you for your intelligent accurate remarks.
Feels like many of us don’t appreciate what doctors and nurses went through and how this was new for not only the US but the whole world.
Our medical policy makers were trying to stop the spread as they were learning how COVID was spread. Almost every other country also locked down and asked people to wear masks. So targeting mishandling on a single person or group in 1 country is not based in reality.
There was no “stopping the spread”. Stop with this nonsense. Anyone who understands basic calculus understands that the area under the curve will be the same even if you flatten it without a proper sterilizing vaccine. Which has never been achieved in less than a decade. So just stop with the excuses and lies.
That was the excuse, there was no actual science behind it. Also, you claiming to be overwhelmed was a lie, as evidenced by the regular tictoc dancing choreographies you people regularly posted on tictoc despite being so “overwhelmed” to not have time to eat. You don’t get to play both sides of this nonsense and pretend you didn’t know. There was a lancet study in early 2020 that showed at very best, all of the bs “protections” might result in a 10% reduction in caseloads.*might* also, you and your crowd refused to acknowledge that it was the elderly who where most vulnerable. So no, you don’t get to play the fake hero card.
That’s all fine and good to try and pull rank here, but as someone who has decades of experience in industrial hygiene (and respiratory protection), I knew all along that the masking requirement was – and is – utter nonsense. Doing this was NEVER going to stp the spread of a virus, nor did it. And I was absolutely savaged online as the most selfish and evil person on earth for sharing that educated opinion. Nurses, in particular, tried to excoriate me for the endorsement of killing grandma. Now we all know it was all utter nonsense. And Fauci LIED (or at least mislead) about all of this. Don’t justify his actions; he claimed “it’s the science” when it was truly only a matter of opinion. And not an unbiased opinion either. He belongs in prison.
It’s amusing to me how all of the little partisans are out in full force with the exact same message. “Buht we didn’t know” despite screaming at us about the ” scienceTM” when there was no such thing present. Period. End of story. These people have some nerve.
This is the best reply I’ve seen so far across the Boarding Area community which is foaming at the mouth about Dr. Fauci’s supposed admissions – most for which he was not directly the decisionmaker – yes he supported them based on the limited information and data at the time. Of course hindsight is better. Maybe you did this post slightly better than Brian Cohen who took what the Rs did on the committee whole hog and repeated it, but this is only barely better.
If there hadn’t been many of these steps taken at the time, a lot more people would have likely died. There was effectively the equivalent of a 9/11 of deaths DAILY because of Covid. That’s a fact. And exactly for the reasons JA points out here in a very thoughtful way. The majority controlling that House committee sought to paint Dr. Fauci as THE villain and so many people are Pavlovian that somehow this was to restrict “freedom” – it was about saving lives – period. The best scientific and medical minds did the best they could with the information they had at the time. Plenty of people still traveled during this period, planes still flew throughout the pandemic – lots of them. Sure, there were measures to try to protect people who did travel, but gosh forbid we do something to help people instead of the tearing down of them we see today. Very disappointing.
Most of us knew these rules were arbitrary bullshit from the start, though I recall the rare form of idiot that took it all as gospel, including some on this very blog
@Chi … Yes . It was always transparently obvious that it was a scam regimentation . The actual Surgeon General of the U.S. received a summons in Hawaii for walking in an ocean-side park without a mask . The Hawaii police stopped traffic in a highway tunnel for forced testing . People who died from anything else were listed as “covid deaths” ,
We had a guy down here get into a motorcycle accident and was decapitated. He posthumously tested positive. You can guess what the cause of death was attritibuted as.
Capitol Hill (not Capital)
The issue wasn’t so much the early 2020 guidance, but doubling down in 2021 with vaccines in place
@Greg … the first issue was falsely denying that China was Responsible .
CHina was *partly* responsible. They weren’t the ones who came up with the GoF scheme to evade the US ban, that was Fauci, EHA, and UNC. The US government has just as much culpability.
True , but China came up with the virus in the first place , and then forbade any discussion of the Wuhan lab . Brave Chinese scientists were persecuted by the CCP for blowing the whistle .
Actually, if I recall correctly, It was a joint operation between WIV and UNC. UNC has patents from like 2016 (IIRC) on covid-19. It’s been a while since I read the stuff on it, but it’s quite deep between the two nations. I’m not absolving china and the CCP, as they are clearly a piece of sh….. I’m just saying that the eco health alliance and NIH are equally bad. Which is all the more reason I’m an anarchist as the government has shown constantly they can’t be trusted on anything. Tusla? Tuckasegee experiment? The list is vast and this is just what has been “declassified”, what about the things we don’t know about?
There was no science to the mandates from the very beginning.
Imagine that some of us tried to tell you that and you shunned us. Do you want to discuss this again? “oh, you can wear a mask, stop being a baby”. Remember, you were just as bad. Even the idiotic courts can’t be trusted given they ruled for these BS mandates during the time.
Also, you “think it wasn’t sinister”, you might want to look at where the NIH’s budget came from. Fauci is a POS, and has been. We told you this. He did the same hysterical nonsense during the HIV epidemic, and anyone like you who wants to give him a free pass are just as bad. This little efl troll should be tossed in the same cell as Epstein was in.
Still a different topic…come on, Brandon.
I’ve consistently been personally against mandatory masking, mandatory vaccines, and travel restrictions related to them.
But my point has always been 1.) we should respect lawful public policy and 2.) hold the leaders accountable who lead us poorly.
An airline or a government can lawfully and legally require masking. That doesn’t mean it is right (it’s not) or smart (it’s not), just lawful (it is). Big difference.
And the Trump and Biden administrations horribly mishandled the pandemic – this is not a partisan issue.
It wasn’t lawful. They (all but delta) violated the ACAA. Period. Also, this alone shows the emergency powers act should be repealed. There is zero rational for its existence other than to arbitrarily deprive ones liberty based on the whims of the stupid. If you can’t get a bs mandate with a sunset clause through congress, that’s a you problem.
I also find it telling you want to claim I made this a partisan issue. I WAS B!tc4ing about this when trump was president. We went from the orange idiot making these stupid decisions to the nursing home patient. I never made that political, you did. Please, look back on my posts, if you don’t believe me. We have been over this, I don’t vote. This proves it doesn’t matter. A bunch of useless bureaucrats will deprive us regardless of who is in office. The difference is now your “guy” is actively trying to prevent future presidents of firing incompetent morons like the little troll elf who believes he “is the science.”
Wasn’t referring to you. Was referring to the maggots who think I am a MAGAot because I take this position on pandemic public policy.
My apologies, I misread your post. Its just frustrating because we had people like emilytwatserface on tictoc claiming people with asthma didn’t have issues wearing masks. (at)emilylyoness
Despite actual studies showing the opposite. Then we have little partisans like Maryland and David claiming “we don’t understand science” because we don’t believe their partisan little lies.
today.uic(dot)edu/new-study-reports-mask-wearing-experiences-of-adults-with-asthma/
“Respect Public policy”. Sometimes public policy is wrong. Should people have respected racial segregation laws in the U.S. or laws in Germany allowing the expropriation of property from Jewish citizens?
That is a very reasonable question. Brandon feels that the mask ordinances/rules violated ACAA and other public policy exemptions for the disabled. I did not see it that way. If I saw it as unconstitutional or contrary to a deeper law, I would not follow it.
Jim Crow may have been the law of the land, but it violated not only the spirit and the intent but also the direct verbiage of the 14th Amn. The laws in Germany may have been legal and even constitutional in the Third Reich, but violated natural law and were null and void.
What do you think?
I don’t really understand how you say it doesn’t? The relevant sections below. How would I, an individual who can’t wear a mask constitute a “direct threat” if I have no symptoms? If I had symptoms, I still should have been provided an assessment to prove that I am a direct threat. IE, test. The only part vague is it doesn’t define what R0 or IFR is considered a direct threat. Which it should. Either way, delta was the only one who even tried to comply with the law by forcing their pax to be seen by their doctors. Which even that almost violates the law by putting undue burden on the pax. What, in your opinion, was the correct course of action, matt? Should every one who requests a wheelchair be forced to see a MD by the airline to prove necessity? It’s pretty clear the airline is not allowed to do this. Even some fatty who “gets winded from walking, gets to a free pass for requesting a wheelchair. There is a reason some actual ADA advocates did take our side, because its unreasonable to prevent our travel because of some karens fear of getting sick with the cold. We knew it was the cold long before the airline ban took place. Then the government under the nursing home patient gave them aircover by implementing their own mandate, without going through congress.
I’m sorry, I will not now, or ever agree, that this was remotely legal with the ACAA on the books. If the ACAA didn’t exist, then sure. Even then, one could make the argument about the 14th amendment. It would be a loose argument, but one could make it. However, the airlines were in direct violation of the ACAA with their BS bans (delta excluded). I left a job due to this insanity where I was flying from CLT to PHL every week. Even after this, I am very hesitant to give the airlines business going forward due to their stupidity.
382.11 What is the general nondiscrimination requirement of this part?
(a) As a carrier, you must not do any of the following things, either directly or through a contractual, licensing, or other arrangement:
*(1) You must not discriminate against any qualified individual with a disability, by reason of such disability, in the provision of air transportation;*
(2) You must not require a qualified individual with a disability to accept special services (including, but not limited to, preboarding) that the individual does not request. However, you may require preboarding as a condition of receiving certain seating or in-cabin stowage accommodations, as specified in §§ 382.83(c), 382.85(b), and 382.123(a) of this part.
(3) You must not exclude a qualified individual with a disability from or deny the person the benefit of any air transportation or related services that are available to other persons, except where specifically permitted by this Part. This is true even if there are separate or different services available for individuals with a disability, except when specifically permitted by another section of this Part; and
(4) You must not take any adverse action against an individual (e.g., refusing to provide transportation) because the individual asserts, on his or her own behalf or through or on behalf of others, rights protected by this part or the Air Carrier Access Act.
(b) As an indirect carrier, you must comply with §§ 382.17 through 382.157 of this part when providing facilities or services to passengers that would have otherwise been provided by a direct air carrier.
You must not do any of the following things on the basis that a passenger has a communicable disease or infection, *unless you determine that the passenger’s condition poses a direct threat*:
(1) Refuse to provide transportation to the passenger;
(2) Delay the passenger’s transportation (e.g., require the passenger to take a later flight);
(3) Impose on the passenger any condition, restriction, or requirement not imposed on other passengers; or
(4) Require the passenger to provide a medical certificate.
(b) In assessing whether the passenger’s condition poses a direct threat, you must apply the provisions of § 382.19(c)(1)-(2) of this subpart.
*(1) In making this assessment, you may rely on directives issued by public health authorities (e.g., the U.S. Centers for Disease Control or Public Health Service; comparable agencies in other countries; the World Health Organization).
(2) In making this assessment, you must consider the significance of the consequences of a communicable disease and the degree to which it can be readily transmitted by casual contact in an aircraft cabin environment.*
Example 1 to paragraph (b)(2):
*The common cold is readily transmissible in an aircraft cabin environment but does not have severe health consequences. Someone with a cold would not pose a direct threat.*
Example 2 to paragraph (b)(2):
AIDS has very severe health consequences but is not readily transmissible in an aircraft cabin environment. Someone would not pose a direct threat because he or she is HIV-positive or has AIDS.
Example 3 to paragraph (b)(2):
SARS may be readily transmissible in an aircraft cabin environment and has severe health consequences. Someone with SARS probably poses a direct threat.
(c) If a passenger with a communicable disease meeting the direct threat criteria of this section gives you a medical certificate of the kind outlined in § 382.23(c)(2) describing measures for preventing transmission of the disease during the normal course of the flight, you must provide transportation to the passenger, unless you are unable to carry out the measures.
(d) If your action under this section results in the postponement of a passenger’s travel, you must permit the passenger to travel at a later time (up to 90 days from the date of the postponed travel) at the fare that would have applied to the passenger’s originally scheduled trip without penalty or, at the passenger’s discretion, provide a refund for any unused flights, including return flights.
*(e) If you take any action under this section that restricts a passenger’s travel, you must, on the passenger’s request, provide a written explanation within 10 days of the request.*
§ 382.23 May carriers require a passenger with a disability to provide a medical certificate?
(a) Except as provided in this section, you must not require a passenger with a disability to have a medical certificate as a condition for being provided transportation.
(b)
(1) You may require a medical certificate for a passenger with a disability—
(i) Who is traveling in a stretcher or incubator;
(ii) Who needs medical oxygen during a flight; or
(iii) Whose medical condition is such that there is reasonable doubt that the individual can complete the flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight.
(2) For purposes of this paragraph, a medical certificate is a written statement from the passenger’s physician saying that the passenger is capable of completing the flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight.
(3) To be valid, a medical certificate under this paragraph must be dated within 10 days of the scheduled date of the passenger’s initial departing flight.
Example to paragraph (b)(3):
A passenger who schedules a flight from New York to London on January 15 with a return on April 15 would have to show a medical certificate dated January 5 or later. The passenger would not have to show a second medical certificate dated April 5 or later.
(c)
(1) You may also require a medical certificate for a passenger if he or she has a communicable disease or condition that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight.
(2) For purposes of this paragraph, a medical certificate is a written statement from the passenger’s physician saying that the disease or infection would not, under the present conditions in the particular passenger’s case, be communicable to other persons during the normal course of a flight. The medical certificate must state any conditions or precautions that would have to be observed to prevent the transmission of the disease or infection to other persons in the normal course of a flight. A medical certificate under this paragraph must be dated within 10 days of the date of the flight for which it is presented.
(d) As a carrier, you may require that a passenger with a medical certificate undergo additional medical review by you if there is a legitimate medical reason for believing that there has been a significant adverse change in the passenger’s condition since the issuance of the medical certificate or that the certificate significantly understates the passenger’s risk to the health of other persons on the flight. If the results of this medical review demonstrate that the passenger, notwithstanding the medical certificate, is likely to be unable to complete the flight without requiring extraordinary medical assistance (e.g., the passenger has apparent significant difficulty in breathing, appears to be in substantial pain, etc.) or would pose a direct threat to the health or safety of other persons on the flight, you may take an action otherwise prohibited under § 382.21(a) of this part.
[Doc. No. DOT-OST-2004-19482, 73 FR 27665, May 13, 2008, as amended at 75 FR 44887, July 30, 2010]
§ 382.25 May a carrier require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice that he or she is traveling on a flight?
As a carrier, you must not require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice of the fact that he or she is traveling on a flight.
§ 382.27 May a carrier require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice in order to obtain certain specific services in connection with a flight?
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section and §§ 382.75 and 382.133(e)(4), (5), (f)(5) and (6), as a carrier you must not require a passenger with a disability to provide advance notice in order to obtain services or accommodations required by this part.
(b)
(1) You may require a passenger with a disability to provide up to 72 hours’ advance notice and check in one hour before the check-in time for the general public to receive carrier-supplied in-flight medical oxygen on international flights, and 48 hours’ advance notice and check-in one hour before the check-in time for the general public to receive carrier-supplied in-flight medical oxygen on domestic flights. This service is optional; you are not required to provide carrier-supplied in-flight medical oxygen, but you may choose to do so.
(2) You may require a passenger with a disability to provide 48 hours’ advance notice and check-in one hour before the check-in time for the general public to use his/her ventilator, respirator, CPAP machine or POC.
(3) You may require a passenger with a disability seeking to travel with a service animal in the cabin of the aircraft to provide up to 48 hours’ advance notice through submission of the forms identified in § 382.75 (a) and (b) as a condition of permitting the service animal to travel in the cabin if the reservation is made more than 48 hours prior to a flight’s departure. In the alternative, you may require a passenger with a disability seeking to travel with a service animal in the cabin of the aircraft to provide the forms identified in § 382.75 (a) and (b) at the passenger’s departure gate on the date of travel as a condition of permitting the service animal to travel in the cabin.
(c) You may require a passenger with a disability to provide up to 48 hours’ advance notice and check in one hour before the check-in time for the general public to receive the following services and accommodations. The services listed in paragraphs (c)(1) through (c)(3) of this section are optional; you are not required to provide them, but you may choose to do so.
(1) Carriage of an incubator;
(2) Hook-up for a respirator, ventilator, CPAP machine or POC to the aircraft electrical power supply;
(3) Accommodation for a passenger who must travel in a stretcher;
(4) Transportation for an electric wheelchair on an aircraft with fewer than 60 seats;
(5) Provision of hazardous materials packaging for batteries or other assistive devices that are required to have such packaging;
(6) Accommodation for a group of ten or more qualified individuals with a disability, who make reservations and travel as a group; and
(7) Provision of an on-board wheelchair on an aircraft with more than 60 seats that does not have an accessible lavatory.
(8) Accommodation of a passenger who has both severe vision and hearing impairments (see § 382.29(b)(4)).
(d) If the passenger with a disability provides the advance notice you require, consistent with this section, for a service that you must provide (see paragraphs (b)(2) through (3) and (c)(4) through (8) of this section) or choose to provide (see paragraphs (b)(1) and (c)(1) through (c)(3) of this section), you must provide the requested service or accommodation except to comply with any applicable safety regulations.
(e) Your reservation and other administrative systems must ensure that when passengers provide the advance notice that you require, consistent with this section, for services and accommodations, the notice is communicated, clearly and on time, to the people responsible for providing the requested service or accommodation.
(f) If a passenger with a disability provides the advance notice you require, consistent with this section, and the passenger is forced to change to another flight (e.g., because of a flight cancellation), you must, to the maximum extent feasible, provide the accommodation on the new flight. If the new flight is another carrier’s flight, you must provide the maximum feasible assistance to the other carrier in providing the accommodation the passenger requested from you.
(g) If a passenger does not meet advance notice or check-in requirements you establish consistent with this section, you must still provide the service or accommodation if you can do so by making reasonable efforts, without delaying the flight.
Genuine question – do you think the “public health emergencies” that state and local politicians declared to justify the mask and social distancing mandates, along with lockdowns (which I still maintain were an unconstitutional taking without compensation under the 5th amendment) were lawful?
If the open-ended emergency powers were unlawful, then shouldn’t all of the underlying mandates also be unlawful?
This is my bigger issue with the whole mess. We now have the precedent of the “public health emergency”, sanctioned by the courts in many cases with essentially no limits, that can (and will) be abused for other nefarious purposes now that the camel’s nose is under the tent. You already have Trudeau’s health minister effectively arguing road trips should be banned in the name of “climate change”. How long will it be until an enterprising left-leaning politician actually tries the “public health emergency” to criminalize behavior in the name of climate change or gun violence? Or an enterprising right-leaning one does the same for some social behavior they don’t like?
There need to be REAL consequences coming, or it’s only a matter of time before this happens again.
That’s a fair and valid point MeanMeosh. This was a pivotal case. The fact that they can even get away with it with “no consequences” when found illegal is all the more absurd. Just look at the eviction moratorium Biden pushed through for a second time after the scotus ruled against him. Or Trudeaus bs bank account freezes. Until there are legal consequences for violating a “constitution”, it is a meaningless piece of paper.
Just compare how American, United, etc. handled mask exemptions to how Delta did it – the difference is night and day.
American, United, etc. deliberately made the mask exemption process as complex and confusing as possible (United required the passenger to have a doctor fill out the exemption form *every time*) and also added the additional burden of forcing the passenger to take (and pay for) a Covid test, while Delta had a far more simple (but more nerve-wracking) mask exemption process.
And don’t even get me started on JetBlue: https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=126224.0 (see reply 15 in particular)
Here are a few choice comments from another oh so popular travel blog. #NeverForget
“The scientific community is more or less in agreement that everyone wearing face masks when physical distancing isn’t possible can help reduce or slow the spread of coronavirus.”
“Stating that vaccinated people can travel will be a huge incentive for people to get vaccinated, and that’s something we need, especially for the people who are on the fence. Virtually all of the science we’ve seen so far suggests that vaccines largely provide two-way protection — if you’re vaccinated you’re unlikely to develop a severe case of coronavirus, and you’re also unlikely to have an asymptomatic case, making it much less likely that you’d unknowingly spread coronavirus to others.”
“The sad part is that the irresponsible jerks who aren’t wearing masks aren’t necessarily endangering themselves, but much more importantly are selfishly endangering others.”
“While it’s fortunately only a very small minority of travelers who are refusing to wear face masks, it’s nice to see that Delta is taking a step towards combatting this.”
Officer: “You got a problem?”
Me: “Yeah, why aren’t you guys wearing masks?”
Officer: “Are you trying to help me, or what’s your problem?”
Me: “Everyone is supposed to be wearing masks, including you, and you know it.”
Officer: “Well you’re wearing a mask, so you’re protected.”
Me: “That’s not how masks work. That kind of logic is exactly why we’re the epicenter of this.”
Officer: “I’ll put one on just for you, happy?”
Me: “And the other guy?”
Officer: “He has a beard, it’s proven that masks don’t work if you have a beard. Why don’t you go on your way and mind your business.”
just listen to this weasel’s testimony – his actions were totally intentional and sinister and he should be held accountable for the damage he has done to our society
His job was to guide the US through a pandemic caused by an unknown disease. What was recommended was out of an abundance of caution. Doing anything less would have been a neglect of duty.
I know a couple who traveled during this time who wore fake masks (Unmasked) and used fake vaccination cards
to travel to many European countries. Did they get covid? Yes , but flu like symptoms They got to see many places that were not busy with crowds.
I am thinking about Robert F. Kennedy , Jr., who was against this nonsense from the get-go .
Brandon was hiding in his basement .
Trump was sort of clueless and deferred to Fauci .
If this is the main issue , then Robert F. Kennedy , Jr . is the man .
Another stand-up guy who was against this nonsense from the get-go was Dennis Prager .
I once saw Dennis Prager reach his ungloved hand into a buffet tray of beans and then eat the whole tray.
How did he chew up the tray ?
RFK all the way. Trump did not drain the swamp, as he promised, and to this day, continues to surround himself with terrible advisors. Let’s give RFK a shot. His uncle and father were killed by the cia so can’t think of anyone more motivated to dismantle the intelligence agencies than him.
RFK would win if he was on the ballot in all the states , but the Dems are keeping him off .
The Dems are more frightened of RFK than Trump , in my estimation .
Trump has always been more of a boorish publicity performer , than a substantive gentleman .
If less than required electoral votes by any candidate , then the election would go into the House of Representatives and the Dems would attempt to steamroller Brandon .
Tine to start having show trials and putting democrats in jail. Payback is a bitch.
What a bullshit article cherry picking lines of testimony that show that you know absolutely zero about how science works . . . you guys are nuts. Want to know why the country is where it is . . .look in the mirror . . .ignorance has caused nearly every single problem this country faces. Just look at the display in this article and the comments.
Agree, David. Your comments are spot on.
Agreed.
Simple, to the point, and correct.
David is full of hot air…he cannot back any of his assertions beyond “I disagree with you.”
The irony of claiming we (I) anyone doesn’t know how “science works” when A) I work in pharma as an engineer, and b) *WE* were the only ones to ever provide studies to debunk you peoples non-sense. Long before ever locking down. I, personally, showed 90% of the deaths were >55 using the data out of Italy before we ever had our “first case”. So please, do the world a favor and don’t open your mouth if you can’t be bothered to actually read. There was no “science” or even pre pandemic guidance prior to 2020 for masking, lockdowns, etc.
You work in pharma now?
I’ve worked in pharma for over a decade. I worked in pharma when the pandemic started and have as an engineer, again, for over a decade. I traveled to the NE for work during the pandemic. I have stated it here in various occasions.
David thinks he is erudite but is actually clueless. He is part of the problem, anti-intellectual, anti-science, and laughably simplistic. Very sad to see. Indeed, we get the leaders we deserve.
Gentlemen please. You should be aware covid can cause erectile dysfunction for months. Perhaps that’s why we are seeing crankiness in these comments.
You think school closures or three years olds in masks was good public policy? You think travel restrictions against British and Europeans helped to flatten the curve?
Come on, Maryland.
Given what we did not know, and still do not know , yes. I realize that sounds harsh. Two of my friends, healthy people were early deaths. The virus was not managed well from the beginning, on that I will agree.
And my grandmother withered and died alone due to pandemic restrictions. Justifed?
Oh Matthew I am sorry. That is awful and I can understand your grief. Nothing can make up for that. But that is, and was what this virus is about. Never again let us hope. I will pray tonight for your family and for your forgiveness. God bless.
Kind of you. Thank you.
What we didn’t know? You are full of chit. I have the receipts. I knew, others knew, in March. The only ones who didn’t “know” where the people mele concerned about politics than human life. He77 I was in NY just outside of the city during the “peak” and flew in and out of EWR every week.
I will defend Maryland. She’s entitled to her point of view, just like you, and I respect anything coming from her lips (or keyboard), even if we disgree.
Brandon your continued nonsense ( years of it ) is unnecessary. You continue with an unverified agenda. Let’s just say we agree to disagree. Four years have passed. Please can we move forward? It’s exhausting.
My ‘nonsense’, that’s cute. Real cute. Even after your hero is finally forced to admit he was full of crap and you still pretend I’m the one wrong here when my ‘agenda’ is just the truth and not forcing people to live by my rules. You people are the ones who freaked out because you couldn’t be bothered to turn off the TV and actually look at the data, the same data I b’ed about before the lockdowns ever started. I even linked my twitter that was nuked for a while by your kind for “COVID misinformation”, which has highly ironic. Yet here we are and you still can’t admit you were wrong. This is why I will not, and can not forgive you for forcing me out of public spaces due to your irrational fear.
Matt, why do you respect someone who treats people with such contempt over politics? Just look at her own usage of the term ‘horse dewormer” when the FDA was even sued and lost over that nonsense? That is the definition of willful ignorance. I can at least give you credit where credit is due and you have found the error in your ways other than the legalities of the acaa. I do genuinely respect you, I do not Maryland, Aaron or the other little loons who want to ignore reality for partisanship. Heck, just like you, how many times have I been called some variation of a right winger when I don’t vote and was pissed about this when the right was in charge? As evidenced by posts on your own blog since mid 2020.
Since this post is 99% super political, I would like to take the opportunity to somewhat pivot this to the context of this blog and point out that big brain Scott Kirby is the first US carrier CEO to pretty much jump the gun and fire employees for not getting the jab, long before the Biden administration could ever put anything into law.
This is a fair point. Coupled with his taking a private jet from TEB to bypass his own airlines operational meltdown proves he is unfit for his role.
Good point .
Jan, I’ve always been against vaccine mandates and condemn Kirby for this unequivocally.
As someone who experienced the HIV crisis and this subsequent one…..Fauci committed the same disregard to the population and aggregate medicine/scientific community to line his political and financial pockets.
Fauci ignored SF and other HIV clinic research showing promise to keep men alive through the HIV outbreak in favour of AZT and other “blockbuster” expensive drugs (which NIH had a financial interest in). He vilified any discussion of off label effectiveness of existing drugs. My community even protested against AZT because it was killing people. Sound very familiar right? He finally admitted to research off patent drugs after extensive pressure…which shows they work despite the drugs Fauci pushed didnt work at all or very well. Hmmm, IVM and HCQ are showing great effectiveness now…..once all of them have made thier money on pushing thier interests.
It was a colossal repeat of history…..hes no hero….hes a monster and self serving person for his own gain.
Its ironic, the only reason my community holds him as a “hero” is that he went against Trump which people dont like…..amazing how the psy-ops twisted us all in a frenzy…..thats the scary part that proved effective and could be used again.
Fauci….other politicians….public health officers…. should be criminally tried for crimes against humanity. Ignorance, stupdity, fear isnt a defense for the damage they caused. They had the data but chose to ignore it.
Bingo. Which is sad, because Rand did have him dead to rights on at minimum perjury about GoF. Then Merrick chose not to pursue the little elf troll.
Oh yeah , I had forgotten about Dr. Rand Paul . Good point .
@Isaac … Respectfully , what is your “community” to which you refer ?
My “community” is rural Hawaii , and we are mostly “out of touch” with the various mainland communities .
I assume he is referring to the gay community as that was primarily who was impacted by the HIV epidemic.
As mentioned below….the gay community. We are not immune to the generational differences and forgetting history that is our politics today. We arent a monolith at all….us older (over 40 or so) remember the HIV crisis accuately….i am saddened to see the younger generation sometimes think that HIV is like herpes and managed condition to allow wild disregard of basic safety practices…..yet you are on a pill for the rest of your life that kills your kidneys and liver! hmmm the pharma lobby doesnt tell us all those long term consequences!
Again – do you your homework and many sources of studies, etc. Just like your mom said…dont trust everything on TV…yet we beleive everything on the internet?
It’s easier to fool someone than to convince someone that they have been fooled!
@Jane … Spot on .
Have you read your linked studies?
There’s one. And yes, I read it.
Should’ve just everyone pass away and their would be a lot of different questions ask if any was alive to ask them lol. You had many people screaming don’t come near me coughing so the 6 feet rule was good I guess, we don’t anyone near us coughing anyway before and after covid.
If the ask/force had been to remove people who were visibly sick, then that would have been reasonable. People should be, but we know they aren’t, nice enough to stay home if you are sick. But that wasn’t what was asked.
If I had the money to spare I’d sue everyone of these a$$holes for the two years of my life that I lost. F**k them all!
I’d be over 1 Million Lifetime Miles and could retire from my current profession if not for this useless f**kwad. I called bullshit on him the moment that he got behind masking.
The pandemic lockdown was one of the most damaging public policy decisions in modern history. We attempted to “pause” the economy, and what happened? The professional class, who needed very few protections on a whole, stayed home, usually in large home where isolating is easy, binge watched Netflix, went to Zoom meetings, and bought real estate. The “essential workers” most of whom have poor access to healthcare resources, slaved away for near minimum wage, frequently in cramped working conditions and oftentimes interfacing with hundreds of people a day. The rich got richer, the poor got poorer. And now we are faced with out of control inflation and a major cost of living crisis. You’d think this would be a battle cry for equality from the left. Yet they are the ones that wanted to prolong it indefinitely.
Because they are largely made of whiny laptop class who is clueless as to what the real world is like outside of their insulated little bubble. Just look at the collapse reddit, or reddit as a whole. They can’t see the effects because they don’t want to see the effects and aren’t forced to see them.
@wac and @Brandon … Spot on .
Why was Amazon allowed to keep shipping in cramped warehouses yet small businesses were ordered to shut down (they could have better risk mitigation than the warehouses!)
It was the largest wealth transfer in history….largely the democratic jurisdictions shut down all small business en masse…..and let amazon to win.
We had full research and data in 2020 that mass closures and lockdowns were not to be used to control pandemics….because of the large other costs…..yet we did it anyway! The WHO, WEF and other global organizations pushed this en masse…because thier very large corporate membership was going to have a large financial win! As a result no faith in any of these organizations anymore to have humanitys back…..exactly what this article outlines in lost trust.
Before this…i had faith in the large institutions….now…i have none….
We never really shut down our border between China..If you looked at flightracker –there were always flights coming and going to and from CHina!!!
Cargo flights.
Man, this a screwed up site. Just found it today. Blocking now.
Bye, Felicia!
This aint the airport, tchotchke. We don’t need you to announce your departure. Nobody cares anyway.
Leaders were making the best decisions they could in the moment, using the information they had available. Sometimes that was really solid, sometimes it was based on what they knew about other similar health crises. Of course they “made it up” because you had to institute these things quickly and roll with the punches as new information became available. The idea that this is some sort of “bombshell revelation” is laughable.
Nice try. People like Fauci used his “appeal to authority” argument all the time when people questioned him. They pushed the masking rule even though what few studies covered the topic showed that masks do not prevent the spread of respiratory viruses in the general population, and the six foot rule was invented outright.
And for the weasel to finally admit it is quite the bombshell.
@Chi … Thank you for pointing out the fallacy of his “appeal to authority” .
Only Dr. Rand Paul challenged him with medical knowledge .
( However , please do not insult the noble weasel animals . Animals don’t equivocate .)
@ Alert
Rand Paul is an eye doctor. Not respiratory specialist, virologist or infectious disease doctor. He recommended the horse wormer. He was making covid political.
I believe there are different forms of Ivermectin. Even if there aren’t, just because it is used on horses doesn’t mean humans can’t benefit from it. I had a dog that was prescribed Digitalis and no one laughed at him.
I’m not well enough informed to argue that it is beneficial against the COVID virus. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t, but I do know that the inventor won a Nobel Prize for its use in humans so the “horse dewormer” line is a load of horse sh*t.
People try experimental uses of drugs all the time. How could one possibly portray the vaccine as anything but experimental? It was developed way too fast to not be considered as such. It isn’t effective at all. I know multiple people that received it only to come down with the virus multiple times.
I meant to add that the Powers That Be had themselves some newfangled snake oil to sell (and get rich from) so they had a powerful incentive to discourage ANY methods of prevention and recovery with the exception of the one that was attached to their wallet.
@band meeting
There is no evidence that a worming medicine has a healthy result against covid. Otherwise would we not be using it?
Oh god, here you go again. You mean just like faucis “lutenient” Morens. Do you even know what it takes to still be board certified as a OD? Again, just like Morens? Geez you partisan ahats piss me the …. Off with your gullible stupidity.
Lieutenant*
Not sure what happened there.
No comment on Dr Morens being an OD, there Maryland? Interesting…..
@ Brandon
Unlike you I have a life. You slam anyone that disagrees with you and complain continually and yet you’re proud you do not vote. Which gives you NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. Only cowards don’t vote. You complain to Matthew about any comments because confronting your challengers is beyond your wisdom.
@ Chi Hsuan
Both measles (highly contagious and the cause of fetal miscarriage ) and mumps are both types of respiratory viruses. They are managed by vaccine and masking. Unfortunately many in exercising their freedom, have put these dangerous viruses back in circulation
@Maryland … People with ‘pulmonary fibrosis’ live in Hawaii for the fresh air and absence of common respiratory diseases , and the “guidance” resulted in schools closing and inter-island travel heavily restricted . Ridiculous .
As ridiculous as horse wormer? And your promotion of Robert Jr? He also wanted to stop the Measles & Mumps vaccine. Last year 130,000 people died from measles, mostly children. And I want to tie in my comment regarding covid and erectile dysfunction. If anyone is skeptical that a respiratory viruses could cause this, let me remind you of the painful and life altering consequences of mumps on the male reproductive system. I state this out of concern. We have a lot to learn
I think some people do use it. I’ve never used it or advocated using it. You seem to have concluded that calling Ivermectin a wormer is a really cracking pejorative. You could just argue that it doesn’t work but….WORMS! Know what else doesn’t work? The vaccines. Or masks. Or arresting people for walking around outside.
Band meeting, I call it a horse wormer because I have been using it for years. To worm animals. And in more recent times, even my veterinarian recommended limits on the regular use. But hey, you want to use it for whatever, I’ve no opinion . Go for it.
@maryland, clearly you do have an opinion. You just stated it. Do you even know what it was created for? Also, do you know how many drugs are prescribed off label? Regularly? How many drugs vie for second indications to boost sales? Do you know why nobody would invest the resources to see if it were viable for COVID? Do I claim it works, no. I don’t have proof one way or another. I don’t care enough to find out. But it’s a generic thats patent long ago expired and therefore companies like the one I work for couldn’t make the money they want to off of it. The NIH didn’t do their job and fund the studies because they get billions in licensing kickbacks from drug development. But oh no, pharma is only a problem when it fits your political beliefs.
As if you knew any better at the start of a global pandemic that killed/sickened millions of people. =(
We did, smooth brain. https://x.com/KissOccamsRazor/status/1263621485912080385?t=I_GSZ2077yCFfXLz3Wtvow&s=19
This is me, after I had been bitc4ing for over two months. With the data.
I am shocked by the political nature of this piece is Matthew. You are normally very non-partisan with your writing. However, this work really highlights your biases and your lack of knowledge about the scientific process and community health in general. Decisions were made based on the best available knowledge, as is often done.
First, in your rebuttal against masking. You failed to mention here that data clearly shows that masking in response to airborne viruses is still an effective methods of reducing transmission. Citation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10446908/
Second, as a science educator and physiologist by training, I have been witness to the impacts of covid-19 on education. I agree, that there was clearly loses in instructional time and knowledge for students, especially in the K-8 range. However, what is failed to mention here in your diatribe is that those loses were not limited to areas with shorter school closures. Rather, greater education losses were more aligned to areas with high death due to covid-19. Furthermore, communities that supported the government and Fauci’s actions actually decreased impact on students. Citation: https://cepr.harvard.edu/sites/hwpi.harvard.edu/files/cepr/files/explaining_covid_losses_5.23.pdf
At the end of this day this blog is your own, and you are able to highlight your biases as you see fit. But you have unfortunately lost a reader today.
I find it so strange that you seem to enjoy my content (if you know what my “normal” writing is like) and here you are given a platform to challenge me thoughtfully, and yet you end by saying that you won’t read anymore. Why? Because you disagree with my conclusion? What kind of country are we living in when you stop reading someone you disagree with? Must we live in our separate bubbles of “truth” and close our eyes and ears to contrary opinions? Must you always dismiss those with whom you disagree as “lacking knowledge” or “biased” as if you have a corner on knowledge or are not biased?
I never questioned the motives of Fauci…this is not a left-right issue for me. You won’t ever see me supporting Trump and I scorn the clowns on the GOP side who are simply trying to score political points.
But I don’t care if masking is “effective” in reducing transmission (something I never disputed). I thought it was criminal for my three-year-old to have to struggle to wear one in school when weighed with the known risk by the end of 2020. I thought it was criminal that I could not visit the sick in the hospital or attend funerals in 2020 and into 2021. It’s not about whether lockdowns reduced transmission rates: it is about the negative consequences of separating human beings that we are only now beginning to understand. Every decision in life is a risk and requires a cost/benefit analysis and the fact that your cost/benefit analysis is different than mine does not render me “biased” or “lacking knowledge.”
Your comment makes me very sad.
Matt, do you see the irony some of us have been dealing with? An allegedly “science educator (unlikely) can’t admit they were wrong and instead chooses to run from debate. This has been “science” in a nutshell for almost 2 decades now. Or rather academia. It’s a religion, not the pursuit of knowledge and truth. This is what happens when partisans take over a field of discovery.
I find it funny you ignore the vast body of evidence to the contrary. This is why the government as a function of people is completely inept. It’s run by people like you who are unwilling to admit they were and are wrong.
https://www.cochrane(dot)org/CD006207/ARI_do-physical-measures-such-hand-washing-or-wearing-masks-stop-or-slow-down-spread-respiratory-viruses
As if Fauci, the MSM and the Democrats didn’t make covid political….
I’d like to drag the little elf behind a truck and be done with him.
COVID wasn’t political at all until Trump started saying injecting bleach would help.
You are an idiot. He never said that, you tool.
Liar
“And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? “
You people are hilarious. Go watch the video. The guy is a buffoon, but you partisan tools are just as bad, or worse. No matter how wrong you are, you children just can’t ever demonstrate the maturity to actually admit when you are wrong.
Even the Uber right wing extremists at poltifact won’t agree with you. https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/13/fact-check-did-trump-tell-people-to-drink-bleach-to-kill-coronavirus/113754708/
And to think the biden administration and tech companies violated your first amendment right to free speech if you point this out or all the other covid lies they attempted to force on the public
Our leaders were making the best decisions they could in the moment, using the information they had available. They based decisions on what was known of viruses. Sometimes their educated guess was really solid, sometimes it was based on what they knew about other similar health crises. You had to institute these things quickly and adjust as new information became available. Trump meddling killed/sickened many more people than necessary before treatments and vaccines came into wide use.
Yes, COVID is a new virus. If something is new and it’s killing people, it’s better to take more precautions than not. You don’t ignore it.
Well said.
Paul, I don’t dispute that – the failure was to make proper adjustments in the weeks after the emergency declaration and then to double down on unscientific policies aimed at assuaging fear rather than keeping citizens safe. There’s a huge difference between what the government did in March 2020 and March 2021 or 2022…
Furthermore, many mistakes were made. We need to learn from them and that means being honest about them (i.e. school closures). Because “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice…” I’m not hearing any helpful introspection from either side and I’m not happy about that.
Please never speak again. You are too blinded by your own partisanship to make a logical, well founded argument based on actual science and facts.
Wow! Highly inappropriate and very partisan. Now we know what TV channel you’ve been watching. Stick to travel blogging. You din’t know what you’re talking about.
I don’t have a TV or watch TV.
Please feel free to point out what you think I do not know. Otherwise, save the trite observations.
Wow Matthew. Nice way to pick and choose the comments to support your point of view. The bottom line is that millions of people died from the novel coronavirus and millions more would have died, had Fauci and his contemporaries not taken decisive action. Do I think that some of the rules were overkill? Sure. And that they should have been pulled back sooner? Definitely, particularly for grade schools.
But to suggest and imply that because there was not bedrock science for every detail of every protective measure put in to place means that Fauci and others screwed up, is not just wrong, but dangerous thinking.
There is NO doubt that masking and social distancing saved countless lives, both directly and through the flattening of the curve so that our health care system did not completely collapse. There is rock-solid science supporting those statements and to suggest otherwise is crazy. Thank goodness we didn’t have people like you (and Brian Cohen and Gary Leff) running the show when the pandemic hit and people were literally dying all around us.
I think you totally misread what I wrote. All I’m concerned about is ensuring that we don’t repeat mistakes…that we learn from them and think critically about where, as you concede, we went irrationally overboard.
And I think Fauci’s statements concerning social distancing and masking are quite telling…we can learn from that instead of each of us reducing this to simple partisanship.
Rock solid evidence? Hahahahahahaha the partisans have left the barn.
Came here for the comments; I was not disappointed.
Unfortunately, governments are almost always placed in “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situations with crises. Easy to fling mud and point fingers afterwards, when very few of us would ever be in positions to have to make national life-altering decisions based on limited information, compressed timeframes, and the political crucible. In hindsight, these decisions will always be seen as “poor handling” by different segments of the population.
I don’t think Fauci-NIH-Trump-CDC-MSM-social media responses to Covid made us “far more skeptical” of the institutions. The trust was already severely eroded away by relentless attacks from every point along the political spectrum. I’d be highly surprised if a significant proportion of the population hold differing views of the role of public health than they did in 2019.
I did.
This is bs. The *pre pandemic planning* prior to 2020 didnt call for masking or shutdowns for a respiratory virus. You would know that if you didn’t throw stones from glass houses. Use Google. Look up the guidance from 2019 and before……
Don’t forget the worst of all: They stole years of essential social-emotional development from children. Even when most of the data showed covid was virtually no thread to children’s health. Those of you with kids in public schools saw it first hand. Here in CA, our Governer (and most of the liberal CA tech elites) exempted their own children, sending them to in-person private school, but encouraged the teachers unions to fight tooth and nail to keep schools closed. They stole years of childhood from our children. Can you imagine jumping from 2nd grade to 4th grade? And even then when class reopened it was a farce of hybrid “distance learning” and full on surgical masking. Then shutting down the entire school again for a week if one person tested positive. Where were the “my body my choice” people when they required invasive swabbing of children’s nostrils in school, using a test that turned out to be highly inaccurate? It’s outrageous and sickening. Children couldn’t see smiles and learn social cues under masks. You can’t make up for this lost development. But possibly worst of all is the education gap (already terrible in our public schools pre-pandemic) that will be devastating for this generation. The political class destroyed lives, livelihoods, and childhoods in what became purely a power grab. They got a taste of absolute power and they loved it. Truly despicable.
In CA, we kept the schools closed and the pot shops open. Speaks for itself.
@wac … well said .
Looking back, we should have let it run rampant. Everyone over 55 would be dead, therefore there would be much fewer trump voters. And houses would be cheaper. Win-win
Lol, why does the “south” still exist, or Africa, if that was the case? I can’t imagine being this upset and refusing to admit you were wrong. This is proof you people should have never had a say in the conversation, you were adult enough to belong at the table.
I can’t imagine being so scientifically illiterate.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih
gov/33289900/
“Buht we didn’t knows, reeeee” bs.
Fauci has a VIP place reserved for him in hell. He will have a great time there.
So will you
He has a seat reserved in the front row close to the fire… right next to Myorkas’
Front row seat watching all the Republicans in the fire
Well done, Matt. Well done indeed. Nothing like stirring up the conspiracy theorists against Fauci. For what it’s worth, I’ll say a prayer for you and your deeply traumatized family.
Conspiracy? You people really are batchit
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: hindsight is 20:20.
The Spanish Flu killed tens of millions of people. Covid-19 ended up killing millions of people. Sure, the health authorities were overly cautious this time. But they had no way of knowing whether this was going to wipe out a whole generation at the time, so they erred on the side of caution. Maybe next time, they’ll be too lax and billions will die. They won’t know at the time because hindsight is 20:20.
Say it all you want, but it wasn’t and hundreds of thousands of us said otherwise and people like you had us deplatformed for politics. Because what we said inconveniently aligned with a politician you hated and therefore it couldn’t be correct. So no, hindsight wasn’t 2020, and you don’t get to use that excuse for acting like a fool.
Oh puhlease, you couldn’t possibly be more platformed.
Over a million people died in the US while 75,000 people died in Japan (population about 1/3 of US) of the US and 35,000 died in South Korea (population about 1/6 of US), and that gaping maw in death rates certainly isn’t because the US was TOO strict.
Math and statistics clearly aren’t your strong suit. Imagine if there were a study or something….. Oh, wait. Keep going Mr. knower of “ScienceTM”. Additionally, your ignorant people banned me for over a year from twitter over this. So please stop with your blatant stupidity. Then again, you probably aren’t able too given it’s engrained in your DNA.
https://www.medicaleconomics.com/view/john-hopkins-working-paper-says-covid-19-lockdowns-not-worth-it-sparks-fierce-debate
This from a guy who doesn’t even know what the common expression “hindsight is 20:20” means.
But let me spell it out for you: despite all of your whining, America actually had very lax restrictions compared to other countries. America also had way, way more deaths than other countries. Death rates were especially high in states with lax restrictions. Correlation is not causation, of course, but maybe you should “do your own research” on why so many people died in your country compared with other developed countries. You know, “put two and two together,” to use another common expression that you will hopefully get this time.
Because “hindsight wasn’t 2020” means that people were right then and wrong now.
Oh dear god, you smooth brain. I have already linked above THE SAME STUPID ARUGMENTS THIS PAPER MADE IN 2020. That’s not “hindsight” you idiot. Then, you dillweeds wouldn’t hear debate in 2020 because “muh pandemic”, instead you just had us banned. So don’t give me this “hindsight” bs or claim I don’t know what it is. When the debate was stifled by children like you who were scared of a cold. Then, you igonrants are still on here claiming “muh hindsight” even when we link to our own comments from march/april 2020 with the same thing the “science” gets to 2 years later. That’s not “hindsight”. So maybe you should learn what it is.
Then, instead of reading a link SHOWING that global statistics didn’t who an uptick in deaths due to “lax restrictions, as you moronically claim, then you just go back to “muh hindsight”. STFU about stuff you don’t understand.
Here’s an interesting quote from that very article that you cite.
“However, in their conclusion they noted that closing nonessential businesses “seems to have had some effect,” reducing COVID-19 mortality by 10.6%, and that reduction was probably related to closing bars.”
It’s almost like it’s saying that some degree of measures were effective, but measures stopped being effective beyond a certain point.
But of course, we only know that in hindsight. You really should look that word up. It’s really useful for situations like this. Like how that article was written in 2022, so it does not reflect what was known in 2020 in any case.
Thanks for proving you have zero reading comprehension. I SPECIFICALLY STATED, WE, made the same arguments in 2020. I linked them above. But again, speaking with you is not worthwhile because you aren’t smart enough to actually read what is written. The article is proof there was no “hindsight” needed, as WE, made these arguments and were vindicated. Furthermore, the pre-pandemic guidance, not that reading is in your wheelhouse, prior to 2020 said to maintain normal operations if you aren’t sick. You karens freaked out and had to prove “orangeman wong”, instead of just following actual science.
Drrr, drrr. “Web Dibnt Knews”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10399217/
Again, not hindsight. Many of us pointed out Sweden as early as April/May 2020. You dopes pulled your silly charades until 2023.
This article states,
“Dr. Fauci: “I was not aware of studies that in fact, that would be a very difficult study to do.”
So what you are going to do? Play a lawyer and say “there is no absolute proof nor a study that will take 10 years to complete so let people get sick, die, or get long Covid, I’m legally covered!”
No.
We had studies and guidance. He chose to ignore it and play politics like the little partisan troll elf he is.
Imagine if only we had some data…..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10399217/
oh, wait, we had an example for over two years.
We have data. N95 masks help. Current vaccination helps.
Says the guy who can’t produce the data.
Point 1>
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
Point 2>
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/#:~:text=Even%20though%20vaccinations%20offers%20protection,the%20fully%20vaccinated%20%5B10%5D.
Do you really want to keep opening your mouth with nonsense? Unlike you, I have a STEM degree and have read all of these papers.
Confesses in the title is tricky and not worthy of Live and Let’s Fly.
Why not write an article about the Special Military Operation in Ukraine and the stated need to denazify Ukraine? After all, there are references to back it up, like Putin’s press releases.
There is nothing tricky about it. Just like when the little troll elf lied about gain of function research under oath. Then again, just like many of the other partisans here, you are here to defend your little troll hero despite the piece of chit he was/is.
Brandon,
I acknowledge you are passionate in your believe. And I admire that, but please take a step back. All the best.
So you aren’t going to respond to my question?
Honestly this is giving a red pill vibe. No one at that time knew how long the pandemic or quarantine or restrictions would last. It was all up in the air and mostly everyone was trying their best to stay safe and keep themselves and loved ones healthy.
You’re very forgiving.
A couple of thoughts on the subject.
By far the greatest failing of the medical profession during Covid was their total violation of the principle of first doing no harm. Thats a bold statement so let me back it up.
As we implanted policy to limit Covid transmission at no point was any consideration given to an analysis done of what the negative effects of those policies would be. This is especially pertinent when it comes to kids. For example proper public policy should have weighed the negative impacts on kids of shuttering schools against the risk that Covid posed to them. That wasn’t done. Ever.
People don’t live in a vacuum and when we mandate that they do it has consequences. I’ve personally seen stats which clearly indicate that the Covid mitigation policies drove more deaths in teenagers from suicides, drug overdoses, etc than even a worst case Covid impact. Which means the policies that were adopted killed kids instead of saving them.
If we are ever again faced with an emergency if this nature we simply have to balance the risks of the policies we are looking to adopt with what they will cost us.
Second local leaders all over the country invoked Emergency powers to meet the threat. Those powers were supposed to be short term in nature but in many cases the Emergency declarations and the measures taken under them lasted years. That must never be allowed to happen again. The Emergency should only be allowed to last as long as it takes to get the appropriate legislative body in place to decide whether or not to codify and therefore continue those emergency changes.
Third follow the science became the mantra of those promoting various restrictions and we continue to see it in the comment thread. The problem with this is that even when it was apparent the science was wrong (Covid for example wasn’t transmitted by droplets on door handles etc) all of those restrictions remained in place. Just look at how long the airline mask mandate went on. Follow the science only works when you actually follow the science and make changes as required. When follow the science means taking the most restrictive possible view advanced by any study regardless of merit it’s blatantly obvious we aren’t actually doing so anymore. The result is the utter and total loss of credibility by agencies like the CDC. That must never happen again. We must be able to trust organizations like that and they do no one any good when insisting on policies that are quite obviously now outdated because “it’s the safest course of action.”
Fourth don’t forget that Fauci has admitted that he was lying when he early on told people not to wear masks. When public officials lie even in the pursuit of what they think is the greater good they destroy their credibility. Especially on matters of public health it’s unacceptable to tell people what you think they should hear instead of the truth.
Bingo. But according to alleged ship sinking doctors below, we are just “maggots”. They are incapable of self reflection and coherent thought. Even the constitution didn’t matter to the courts that were scared, as evidenced by upholding restrictions and ruling for forced quarantine of healthy people indiscriminately. There is no way to share a a nation with people like this.
Re: “ … the “we did the best we could with the information we had” excuse …” What were Public Health policy makers supposed to do? Nothing? “Our prayers are with you?” Wishful thinking? Recommend bleach ingestion?
It’s very easy to Monday morning quarterback, it’s nearly, if not completely, impossible to make correct decisions at the time when there’s limited or no factual information available.
People who accuse Dr. Fauci of sinister motivations are as morally and ethically bankrupt and repulsive as ambulance chasing lawyers (and MAGA), the true scum of the earth.
Unfortunately, most patients are too stupid to understand that a doctor’s job, be it personal or public heath, is to tell you what to do maintain and/or get back to good health, not to tell you what you want to hear. Typical patient plus MAGA equals the world’s dumbest human beings, a chimpanzee probably has more intelligence.
This animosity toward health care providers will discourage the best and the brightest from going into medicine and then we’ll get the health care we deserve, delivered by those at the bottom of the bucket (who are as stupid as their MAGA patients).
Thank God you are retired. You are clearly incapable of rational thought and should have never been able to practice medicine based on your lack of judgement and ethics.
There is no “Monday morning” this, we told you by May you were being idiots. There is a reason why most of the semi rational areas opened up within 2 months as there was no denying was the rest of us told you from the start. The fact you couldn’t see the data out of Italy and understand that locking down the non impacted population and masking healthy people (and those like me with medical conditions) to make you feel better because “urnge man bad” isn’t a reasonable position. The fact that you want to claim that this is a maga issue proves you were never fit to practice medicine.
@ Brandon
Your views are ill-informed and misdirected. Ironically, you’re that dumb that the articles you cite don’t even support your argument. Your position is highly illogical and deluded and exposes a very narrow mental capacity.
Let’s cite a few examples of your inanity for the sake of any erudite readers (if there are any for this blog) and in the interest of stopping people like you and Matthew Klint from further engaging in the highly responsible exercise of demeaning science and actual scientists (not, for example, “STEM” trained “engineers”, who think they have a clue about science because they clutter up a Pharma lab – hint – you evidently don’t even have a better grasp of science than the OP, which means pretty well sweet FA).
The area under a curve can equal an area under a curve of different shape – same difference, right? No, you dopey donut, the goal was to manage hospitalisations so the health resources didn’t become overloaded. Ironically, you histrionically refer to the Italian and NYC experiences without acknowledging such. So, dude, we’re taking rates of change and total cases at any given point in the time line. That’s what flattening the curve means.
Next you clearly confuse / conflate different measures / goals when it comes to managing a pandemic. Thus you conveniently obsess about total infections, and fail to delineate between that and hospitalisations and mortality rate. A very common mistake in COVIDIOTS. Just as you ignore the differential purposes of vaccines to lessen rate of infection and reduce mortality.
Next you conveniently ignore the data from those countries which applied management policies effectively rather than half heartedly for comparative purposes. Masks, social distancing and quarantine work. They always have through history. Those countries which deployed them properly were spectacularly effective at managing the pandemic, busting the myth about the Sweden example, which you gleefully tout as if some miracle data to deflect from your stupidity – it wasn’t, and it isn’t, dude, get over it.
Next you cite articles looking at data on one factor (eg. vaccination rates and viral spread) in isolation. No, dude, managing a pandemic is about balancing a complex network of confounding variables, not a simple engineering problem characterised by a one or two rather linearly related parameters easily modelled. That’s why for example, the Doherty Report, compiled to guide policy in a certain other country modelled the predicted outcomes of differing combinations of management tools (masks, vaccinations, social distancing, etc.).
Incidentally, to settle the we did and didn’t know argument, you could read that report since it summarizes what was known at the time when various governments were faced with making health policy decisions.
Oh yeah – the concept of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic infections being able to transmit the virus is completely lost on you. Similarly, you conveniently ignore the capacity for infected kids to pass on the virus to adults.
Crucially, you evidently have no idea about the capacity for viral disease to exhibit exponential growth. Each infection has the potential to impact others exponentially over time.
Finally, your rants presume that the whole scientific and medical community have been both derelict and complicit in some mass global conspiracy affecting hundred of countries.
Mate, you are utterly stark raving bonkers.
Comments from an actual bioscientist who has previously worked in research lab as a bioscientist searching viral vaccines…
@ the mental midget (aka platy)
1) “Your views are ill-informed and misdirected. Ironically, you’re that dumb that the articles you cite don’t even support your argument. Your position is highly illogical and deluded and exposes a very narrow mental capacity.”
1)blah, blah, blah…. The irony here is cute. You can’t even bother actually posting stuff that remotely makes sense because you have nothing to offer. I have actually read the studies, and work in a field that expects me to understand contamination risks. As if I don’t, PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY DIE.
2) “Let’s cite a few examples of your inanity for the sake of any erudite readers (if there are any for this blog) and in the interest of stopping people like you and Matthew Klint from further engaging in the highly responsible exercise of demeaning science and actual scientists (not, for example, “STEM” trained “engineers”, who think they have a clue about science because they clutter up a Pharma lab – hint – you evidently don’t even have a better grasp of science than the OP, which means pretty well sweet FA).”
I’m not in a pharma “lab”, I am an engineer. Yet another useless, devoid of fact paragraph. Shocking, completely shocking.
3) “The area under a curve can equal an area under a curve of different shape – same difference, right? No, you dopey donut, the goal was to manage hospitalisations so the health resources didn’t become overloaded. Ironically, you histrionically refer to the Italian and NYC experiences without acknowledging such. So, dude, we’re taking rates of change and total cases at any given point in the time line. That’s what flattening the curve means.”
Do I really need to give you a math lesson here? All you did was spread out the infections, you dingus. IE, the area (infections/deaths/etc) was the same. Your “vaccine” doesn’t even create sterilizing immunity, so it’s cute you claim that the area under the curve changed, yet we still have infections and “deaths” today to the “vulnerable groups” that could have stayed home from the start. So, Yeah, lets talk about that curve. You are trying to “truncate” it to give yourself a cherry-picked win, but you refuse to acknowledge what the rest of us rational individuals with actual STEM degrees (which clearly despite your bluster, you do not possess) realized. Locking down society only shifted the curve forward into the future. It didn’t stop the curve. Also, you want to whine about “hospitializations”, then why were most of the “locked down” areas in the US laying off healthcare workers due, and tictoc videos coming out daily from those “overwhelmed” ER’s? Please, get us your best “erudite” response to that? Should I cite sources, or are you ok to google them yourself? I’m guessing not, but I’m too lazy to do all of this for you.
I can’t imagine being so dense I can’t be bothered to even look at the data. But here you are.
https://www.health.gov.au/topics/covid-19/reporting
As soon as Australia did finally open, that curve went straight exponential.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/
Not that the US had the capacity to even shut down the way a small country like Australia can that possesses a water border around its country. But I don’t expect logic to come your way.
4) “Next you clearly confuse / conflate different measures / goals when it comes to managing a pandemic. Thus you conveniently obsess about total infections, and fail to delineate between that and hospitalisations and mortality rate. A very common mistake in COVIDIOTS. Just as you ignore the differential purposes of vaccines to lessen rate of infection and reduce mortality.”
Please show me, using math, how hospitalizations/mortality rates were lower ALONG THE WHOLE TIMELINE for covid? Please? I’ll wait. Again, I get math isn’t your strong suit, that much is abundantly clear, but the PEAKS were the same whether the country(ies) was open or closed. Something you would know if you ever bothered to actually look at the data, which someone who uses the “reddit term – covidiots” has never been capable of doing.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations
So, let’s expand a bit further on this whole hospitalization/mortality thing you claim I “ignored”. Once the vulnerable are impacted and removed the peaks continue to get lower and lower. If just coming up with a “vaccine”, that as I’m sure you still aren’t aware doesn’t have the ability to create sterilizing immunity and no sterilizing vaccine has ever been developed, trialed and approved for human in less than a decade, will fix this, then why did the old people who died 2021 onwards happen after getting the vaccine? Please, explain?
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths
5) “Next you conveniently ignore the data from those countries which applied management policies effectively rather than half-heartedly for comparative purposes. Masks, social distancing and quarantine work. They always have through history. Those countries which deployed them properly were spectacularly effective at managing the pandemic, busting the myth about the Sweden example, which you gleefully tout as if some miracle data to deflect from your stupidity – it wasn’t, and it isn’t, dude, get over it.”
Holy shit, you are an idiot. Yes, studies are created to test a hypothesis, you moron. Of which you try to limit/eliminate as many confounding variables as you can. Otherwise, what is the point of a stupid study if it doesn’t show anything?
Masks don’t work, we have data to prove your silly snot rags don’t work. Of which I have linked here and various other places. Unless you are walking around with a p100 respirator, which wasn’t what was being forced on people, then you are creating a performative act of uselessness. Like much of your alleged knowledge. Instead of claiming they work, THEN PROVE IT. Where did it work? Why is Sweden in no worse of a position today than the rest of the Nordic countries? I Edgerly await your astute response.
6) “Next you cite articles looking at data on one factor (eg. vaccination rates and viral spread) in isolation. No, dude, managing a pandemic is about balancing a complex network of confounding variables, not a simple engineering problem characterised by a one or two rather linearly related parameters easily modelled. That’s why for example, the Doherty Report, compiled to guide policy in a certain other country modelled the predicted outcomes of differing combinations of management tools (masks, vaccinations, social distancing, etc.).”
“simple engineering problem” from a person who doesn’t know anything about engineering. This is cute. Anyone who understands “science” knows A) models that aren’t tested are bs, and you reduce the number of variables to test your hypothesis in RCT’s. Something an alleged “bio-scientist” should know….. But here we are. You want data? Ok, here is your data. Citations listed in the article and then summarized by the Cochrane.
https://www.city-journal.org/article/do-masks-work
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/web/cochrane/content?templateType=related&urlTitle=/central/doi/10.1002/central/CN-02159212&doi=10.1002/central/CN-02159212&p_p_id=scolariscontentdisplay_WAR_scolariscontentdisplay&_scolariscontentdisplay_WAR_scolariscontentdisplay_action=related-content&p_p_lifecycle=0&p_p_mode=view&type=central&contentLanguage=
So, get out of here with this nonsense that “we didn’t know”. I F_ing did, and “WE” tried to tell you. You little karens cried, whined and threatened us. So give me a break. Everything you mentioned was tested in an articled published to lancet in feb 2020 and SHOWED at best, those mitigations might equate to a 10% reduction in spread, at the high end. When you have to control for bio/chemical spread like I do, you become keenly aware of all the variables you little children missed. All the touch points ignored. All the bad information on masking with “cloth”, not actual P100 respirators. Etc. Even then, who is training these people? Oh, wait, NOBODY. We don’t conduct respirator training in phrama for the fun of it, we do it because an improperly fitted/used mask is useless at filtration. As an alleged “bio-scientist”, there is a specific method to remove gloves and bunnysuit PPE to prevent spread biological material, but yet you think the public can pull this off with zero training? Or even CARE? Give me a break. You aren’t smart enough to think through the full sequence of the process for contamination prevention, so don’t tell me you were going to convince the public to use your silly methods because the “government said so”. Also, you conveniently miss that half the world can’t “shut down” because of your fear otherwise we all die of starvation. You ignorant fool.
7) “Incidentally, to settle the we did and didn’t know argument, you could read that report since it summarizes what was known at the time when various governments were faced with making health policy decisions.”
Yes, I have read the reports, and little karens like you wanted society shut so you didn’t get “sick” with a cold. There is no actual evidence that we should have deviated from prior pre-pandemic planning made *PRIOR* to 2020. The exact thing Sweden did.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/deaths-australia/latest-release
Conveniently, your country has stopped reporting overall death counts since “reopening” in 2022….. Now why would that be? Oh, that’s right, it’s just a magical conspiracy going to back to your assertion that we are claiming the government would “hide their failure”.
https://www.tourism.australia.com/en/news-and-events/news-stories/australia-reopens-to-international-tourists.html#:~:text=Tourism%20Australia%20has%20welcomed%20the,vaccinated%20travellers%2C%20and%20other%20visitors.
8) “Oh yeah – the concept of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic infections being able to transmit the virus is completely lost on you. Similarly, you conveniently ignore the capacity for infected kids to pass on the virus to adults.”
The concept of “pre-asymptomatic spread” is bs. You would know if you EVER bothered to read anything outside of the news for your actual “science”, Mr. Bio-scientist.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article
There isn’t a single source that shows pre/asym spread is a primary driver of pandemics. EVEN THE WHO contradicted your dumbaxx in June of 2020.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/09/asymptomatic-coronavirus-spread-who/
9) “Crucially, you evidently have no idea about the capacity for viral disease to exhibit exponential growth. Each infection has the potential to impact others exponentially over time.”
Idiot, yes, everyone understands R0. Again, you miss the point that, AS WE SAW, once people were released from their bondage they the cases continued right along as if nothing ever stopped. You specifically ignore that. What was your solution? Please, without a sterilizing vaccine, how many actual life years had to be lost before we could stop acting silly to appease you karens?
10) “Finally, your rants presume that the whole scientific and medical community have been both derelict and complicit in some mass global conspiracy affecting hundred of countries.”
And your reading comprehension strikes again. The “whole scientific community” wasn’t on your side. Only the scientific community that wasn’t censored, you dope. There were hundreds of thousands of Doctors, Epidemiologists, etc that said exactly what I have here today. It is you morons and your claiming that “science” is a monolith that never leaves your little bubbles who are claiming a conspiracy. It was shown, the governments did coordinate their responses. That’s not conspiracy, that’s direct fact.
11) “Mate, you are utterly stark raving bonkers.”
Ironic
12) “Comments from an actual bioscientist who has previously worked in research lab as a bioscientist searching viral vaccines…”
Yeah, we have proven this is crock of sh!t
@matt, I hope this fully answers this? Let me know if there is anything you would like to see. You have my email. That’s the easiest way to get in touch. Sorry for the delay, I got busy with actual work yesterday.
He and his agency funded the research of some of the most vile organisms ever introduced to mankind. And then lied about it with impunity. And yet some of you want to defend him. It’s disgusting. Especially when I see leftists who are so blinded by bias they practically make him a hero. The man should be in jail.
Jeezuz fn Christ.
I should add he’s the Dr. Mengele of infectious diseases. But then again leftists in this day and age would defend those experiments as well.
Brandon, I usually don’t feed trolls, suffice it to say thank you for proving that you are dumber than a chimpanzee. Please take your nasty MAGA vitriol and put it where the sun doesn’t shine. Thank god you are most likely a typical MAGA, uneducated and with no influence beyond your own bodily functions.
Clearly I have forgotten more than the ER D(i)C will ever know.
Just lost a lot of respect for this website. Why can’t we keep politics off of travel websites? I really don’t care what some young frat boy who travels frequently thinks about pandemic travel restrictions or Dr. Fauci. Now every time I read a post by Mathew Klint I’m going to think he is some crazy anti-mask wacko.
Then you clearly haven’t read me over the years and don’t know me if you want to make such stupid assumptions.
But young frat boy? Wow, I’ll take that.