The legal answer may be yes, but is a regional carrier like PSA operating under the American Eagle brand really not properly described as American Airlines? With regional carriers so ubiquitous, the line has been blurred and the idea that these flight crews do not represent the airline is on shaky logical grounds.
Is A Regional Carrier Really A Separate Airline?
I took a fair amount of heat in a recent post for calling a flight attendant from PSA an American Airlines flight attendant. My rationale was simple:
- PSA is owned by American Airlines
- PSA operates flights exclusively for American Airlines
- All PSA flights carry American Airlines flight numbers
- Every aircraft has an American Airlines logo on it
- PSA employees have American Airlines flight numbers
- PSA employees take part in American Airlines profit sharing
- Flight attendants and pilots wear uniforms in the style of American Airlines
- Tickets are booked via American Airlines
- Check-in desks, ticketing machines, and boarding passes say American Airlines
- Safety cards, cups, glasses, napkins, and packaged snacks say American Airlines
- When available, IFE and Wi-Fi are American Airlines branded
Of course I also said that PSA is a wholly-owned subsidiary of American Airlines, which indicates it is not the same as mainline.
But even if PSA is a separate legal entity created to ensure the wages of regional pilots and flight attendants are far lower than those of mainline, is the distinction anything more than on paper?
And while I’m using PSA as an example and because it has additional links to its “mainline” parent than say SkyWest does to Alaska, Delta, and United, this discussion really applies to most regional carriers in the USA that operate on behalf of a legacy network carrier.
Indignant employees at American Airlines were quick to point to the fact that mainline flight attendants are under a different contract and represented by a different union. That’s very true. But that does not really impact the passenger. In fact, as regional carriers upgrade to larger jets and add amenities onboard, the line between mainline and regional continues to blur.
When Dr. David Dao was dragged off a United Express flight in Chicago four years ago, United Airlines was (properly) blamed in headlines around the world. Why? Because United involuntary denied boarding polices were in effect and the man was traveling on a United-issued ticket on an airplane with the United Airlines logo on it. No one was interested that UA3411 was operated by Republic Airways.
Perhaps if mainline employees are so up in arms against regionals being lumped together with them, they should direct their ire not at passengers who note that the two are nearly indistinguishable, but the airline that has so aggressively built up regional networks in an effort to slash labor costs.
CONCLUSION
I’m perfectly willing to stipulate that PSA is not the same as American Airlines mainline and that flight attendants and pilots are under different contracts, union representation, and work rules. Even so, to almost all customers PSA employees are American Airlines employees…and that is an important fact to keep in mind. When someone wears your uniform and flies planes bearing your name, they truly represent you…
Caveat emptor.
image: a Mesa Airlines flight attendant operating on behalf of American Airlines
Does anyone know how far out the United schedules are finalized through? I see routes such as DEN-NRT or LAX-MEL on the schedule starting Sat March 26 but it doesn’t seem realistic for a lot of these routes to be resuming? Also routes like EWR-LHR go to 7x daily, which is way too much capacity. Anyone have any insight if these are finalized or if they could still be changed?
Also, what is the status of the PW777-200 with the domestic configuration. I see the domestic config on LAX-IAD in March but DEN-LAX and most other domestic routes still have the Polaris equipped 777-200 on the schedule in March.
Schedules finalized one month prior. I have pressed UA often for updates on PW 777 but no comment.
So I guess the March schedules should be finalized now, so you would expect DEN-NRT and LAX-MEL to resume?
What’s also strange is DEN-NRT and LAX-LHR have the new Polaris and PP seats loaded in while Melbourne does not. I guess we will have to see.
I’m just excited to enjoy the Polaris 777-200 between DEN and LAX starting middle of Feb! Really hoping to see the 777 remain on this route as we haven’t seen it consistently on the route since pre Covid.
UA wants to dominate the market between DEN and LAX, and their strategy seems to be working. While they have probably had too much capacity the past few months, Southwest has cut one of their daily flights, and American and Delta are operating almost all regional jets on the route, whereas for the past year or so it has been mostly mainline jets from AA and DL.
So I would assume UA adding the 777 to this route is part of the strategy to push competitors out of this route.
The 52 PW77-2 should be coming on the line very soon… and with Australia opening up, we’re hoping LAX/SFO-MEL will return by end of March, using 787’s with the new Polaris seats. There are only 6 787-9 to retrofit, and all this is done in XMN or HKG; so it takes time do finish up an entire fleet, but I’m glad they old configuration of 787-9 is very close in being completed.
@Matthew I disagree, I see LAX-PVG is scheduled to resume on March 26, and there is no way that happens, China wouldn’t even let us land there if we wanted to.
I agree, there is no way that flight is going and I doubt MEL will either. But it likely won’t drop off until a month before.
A better point to make is that the regional flight crews are not TRAINED by mainline either. They have an entirely different hierarchy and really are FAR from being like mainline.
I think I know a little bit about it.
I would say yes it’s different. PSA has a separate operating certificate, flight attendant manual, different training, and the employer is PSA, not AA (and PSA is owned by AA Group, not the Airline itself).
The Dao incident is not a good comparison IMO because the issue at hand had nothing to do with the operating airline of the flight, but UA’s own policies and employers.
As far as whether folks getting on a regional flight know that they are not being operated by the mainline airline…good question.
To me, there would be even more of a division for a regional that flies for multiple carriers.
AA Group is synonymous with AA. The exec team and everything else is the exact same, it’s just a holding company for stock purposes.
That’s a big over-simplification.
Ask the employees at the Regional carrier if they work for mainline. They will laugh.
Plus, companies that fly for AA also fly for United and others. The regional pilots can bid back and forth between mainline carriers.
Trust me, separate universe.
It isn’t a separate airline. The only differentiation is based on aircraft specifications. Service and catering (or lack thereof) are generally the same. I understand the difference in pay, union, etc. I get it, I don’t care, and 900 crying FAs aren’t going to change my opinion. If I have a BA mixed crew am I not really flying British Airways? To me, that’s basically the same thing as AA vs PSA. Oh, and the fact that the mixed crew on BA will actually give me a refill unlike AA/PSA
The general public considers the commuter airlines (regional carriers) as the same as the mainline carrier. I do not. I consider them to be inferior and less safe. They have less experienced crew. The Pinnacle/NW Airlink CRJ200 that flew from LIT on the way to MSP around 2004 was a commuter airline. They tried to fly at 41,000 feet but went up too fast and seized the engines. The plane crashed killing everyone on board. (There were no passengers because the flight was originally cancelled and the plane left many hours later to reposition).
@Derek – I understand what you’re getting at but using an example from 2004 when it’s 2022 to explain how something is unsafe doesn’t bode well. Flying is the safest mode of travel full stop. And that includes regional carriers. Now maybe mainline vs regional there might be a slight sway to one but both are extremely safe.
IMO, it’s all about perspective. From the stance of a casual flyer, yes, regionals are practically indistinguishable from the mainline product. From the point of view of a frequent flyer, well … they’re mostly the same. derek lists one reason why people who pay more attention might not consider them to be equivalent. And, of course, anyone who works for these airlines clearly draws a firm distinction.
Allowing for the inferior onboard product, Matthew, I’m pretty much in agreement with you on this one.
Have a look at this list of AT&T subsidiaries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:AT%26T_subsidiaries
When you call, you may speak to someone from Pacific Bell Telephone Company, Wisconsin Bell Telephone Company, BellSouth Communications, or any of a number of other subsidiaries. There are unique labor agreements with the various unions in all the different parts of the country, too. There are legal reasons why you have all these arrangements. To the customer, it is AT&T. It’s the same with the airlines. You might be badged as PSA, but you are paid to be a representative of AA.
Matthew, possibly your strongest point is your sixth one- ” PSA employees take part in American Airlines profit sharing”.
Does the difference really just boil down to labor issues? Are there any liability limits for the mainline in the case of an accident or other liability of a regional? I believe regionals are setup as entities with limited liability and it can be very difficult to “pierce the corporate veil” generally.
Hahaha! Why don’t the airline employees “direct their ire not at passengers who note that the two are nearly indistinguishable, but the airline that has so aggressively built up regional networks in an effort to slash labor costs.” Very ignorant comment!
What do you think they’ve been doing for the past 15-20 years?!? But 9/11 and 2008 financial collapse happened followed by furlough of thousands and all the bargaining power drained. Now Unions are doing everything they can to win back that flying during negotiations, but Corona put a pause on most of those negotiations. Only recently have some mainline airlines really picked back up negotiations.
Do regional carriers like Skywest get paid an operating fee, with the mainline carrier taking all the risk (i.e., Skywest gets paid the same regardless of whether the flight is full or empty), or do regional carriers pay a license fee to the mainline carrier and take the economic risk (i.e., the mainline carrier gets paid the same regardless of whether the flight is full or empty)? Or is it a combination of the two? I’ve always been curious how the economics work.
“Perhaps if mainline employees are so up in arms against regionals being lumped together with them, they should direct their ire not at passengers who note that the two are nearly indistinguishable, but the airline that has so aggressively built up regional networks in an effort to slash labor costs.”
….Agree, but you don’t think ie., UAL employees have objected? . They have, big time – only to fall on deaf ears while the whole world thinks that the less than stellar or lazy “flight attendant” or ground staff is the picture of and representative of ALL of UAL mainline employees. Nothing can be done, this is what these big time airlines want, so employees have to live with it. If United and American don’t want to address the problem then people are still stuck with TWO different airlines, like it or know about it or not.
Lots of know it all Karen’s on this board. Yes for all intents the public does and should consider them the same. You people are just plain crazy. When you have a failure and file a complaint let me guess, you do so with PSA? Of course not. So indirectly all of you consider them the same for all
practical purposes.
I’d like to see all the Karen’s on this board when AA says contact the regional carrier to reimburse for your lost luggage, broken seat, etc. Matthew is 100% correct.
I’d say yes, AA doesn’t hire any employees at the subsidiaries, PSA hires, pays and trains their own staff. A PSA flight attendant / pilot’s paycheck is signed by PSA not by American Airlines, hence they are PSA employees, not American Airlines employees.
While regional airline employees wear a similar looking uniform, and the airplanes have similar liveries (Eagle/Express/Connect, etc) they work for a contract carrier and a different company, it’s called outsourced labor.
Edit: while the regional employees are separate, the PSA flight is marketed and sold as American Eagle/United Express/Delta Connection, so of course the mainline airline who contracts and markets the flight is liable for any PR/compensation issues that arise in regards to that particular flight.
However, the issue with your other article claiming an American Airlines flight attendant behaved abhorrently, when they were actually a regional airline flight attendant was misleading. A mainline manager can’t fire or discipline a regional employee. The mainline union can’t help or negotiate or change anything for a regional airline employee, mainline and regional employees are not in the same system at all, because they work for different companies.
While the employees operating the regional flight are doing so in the name of the carrier marketing the flight, they always include their own airline name to let you know that you’re not on a mainline flight, but on a marketer flight operated by “insert regional airline here”.
I don’t like the deceptions mainline carriers purposely give passengers flying regional airlines. Just be honest and upfront about whose who. The paying passengers deserve the truth.