There’s a big difference between an intentional mask rebellion and punishing innocent, well-intentioned travelers. Mask vigilantism is out of control on flights and in my experience, it was the flight attendants that were to blame.
If you are considering booking travel or signing up for a new credit card please click here. Both support LiveAndLetsFly.com.
If you haven’t followed us on Facebook or Instagram, add us today.
How Many Masks Are Enough?
A family (I assume) of four teenage girls boarded United 422 from Fort Myers, Florida to Newark this week with identical masks. It wasn’t a cute design or innovative approach that drew my attention, it was conspicuous (and seemingly endless) layering. A clear face guard with visor dropped from the forehead, each with a pair of masks (one paper and one cloth mask) underneath. While not all health concerns are visible, they appeared to be healthy.
While walking through the aisle to their seats, one reaches out to touch a headrest, the same one others had touched on the way back to their seats.
Initially, Dr. Fauci stated that masks weren’t necessary at all. Then he advised that one should be worn in crowds or when a distance of six feet couldn’t be achieved. He demonstrated it in action by standing alone on the pitcher’s mound throwing the first pitch masked, then appearing maskless side-by-side with two others in the stands moments later. Now it could be two masks, maybe three – even as cases continue to fall.
What stops us from seven or eight masks? Is it ridiculous? Yes, absolutely, but so are three masks.
Even The Compliant Aren’t Safe
One flight attendant on my aircraft identified that a man’s mask had slipped below his nose. To be clear, this wasn’t an anti-mask person making a statement, rather just a businessman in his mid-20s. He was quietly sitting there working on his laptop, he boarded as a united Premier 1K (he flies a lot) and had a compliant paper ear loop mask face covering. He hadn’t spoken to anyone that I noticed since boarding the plane and had not looked up from his laptop.
As a flight attendant walked by (no name tags so I can’t grace her on these hollowed pages, conveniently) she saw that his mask had slipped below his nose slightly. She asked him to replace his mask over his nose and mouth, he apologized, did so, and went back to his spreadsheet, the flight attendant moved on.
During a separate pass, the same flight attendant walked by with several others, pointed to the young man deeply involved in his work, and said, “that’s the one” before moving to the back of the cabin.
A flight attendant working the forward cabin but who was not the purser addressed the man with a warning. She reviewed the mask requirements with him, stated that he needed to wear a face mask at all times even between bites and sips (he wasn’t eating, we hadn’t even pushed back yet.)
This was not a guy taking a stand. He wasn’t even outright out of compliance with the mask mandate, it had simply had fallen ever so slightly but not even completely below his nose. Not all masks are created equal and I too wear masks that drop from time to time – I am sure that even those cabin crew members had one that dropped from time-to-time.
A Flight Attendant’s Excuse to Be Authoritarian
This was an opportunity for the flight attendants to be authoritarian. The passenger was docile, apologetic, and it was clear he wasn’t flouting the regulations set out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, nor the federal mask mandate. Threatening to remove him from the aircraft when he wasn’t argumentative, immediately corrected the error, and was genuinely sorry about it, is ridiculous.
We have seen other instances where crew members react to what they deem to be safety measures but are really an opportunity for them to dictatorial.
There were three announcements lecturing, and I mean lecturing, about mask-compliance. As I type this, there is another one. This is not a United issue. This is a flight crew-specific issue. Threats were again made to have police officers meet the aircraft for those non-compliant. I walked to the bathroom and looked in every seat and every row on my way back from row 20 (more than half the aircraft in coach) and I didn’t see a single person that failed to be compliant with the policy.
In fact, as I mentioned above, some were wearing more than one N95 mask. While United doesn’t provide in-seat social distancing as Delta does by keeping middle seats open, they do require passengers to wear masks (as does the federal government.) This is all despite United intensely cleaning the aircraft between flights, distributing hand sanitizer wipes to every passenger as they board, and utilizing Hepa filters that United and the DoD have proven make it virtually impossible to transmit the virus on board a plane.
When we highlight people being removed from airplanes due to failure to comply with a mask policy, Matthew and I both shake our heads. Passengers fighting a policy that they’ve already accepted by purchasing the ticket (and agreeing half a dozen times during the check-in process) are ridiculous and attention-seeking. If you don’t want to wear the mask, drive.
But this sheds new light. If someone’s mask innocently falls below their nose and an FA walks by, is there no difference between brazen defiance of the rules and an inadvertent mask slip?
Conclusion
If a passenger boards a flight and then tries to make some sort of a stand on masks that causes them or the airline to violate a federal order/mandate/rule – threatening to have the appropriate consequences awaiting their arrival is fine by me. However, if a person is quietly working with their mask on, flight attendants should recognize the difference between an error for which they may not have even been aware versus a direct and intentional contradiction to their orders.
When a highly experienced and frequent flyer forgets to re-secure their seatbelt after returning from the bathroom, this isn’t sufficient justification to arrest the passengers nor divert the flight. The same is true for innocent failures to keep a mask secured. Some flight attendants – definitely not all – are utilizing this moment to flex their authority. It’s petty and sad, and out of control.
What do you think? Have you seen something similar? Do you think flight attendants should treat accidental violations the same as intentional ones?
Sounds like maybe YOU should have been the one that was lectured
Two Thumbs UP!
One anecdotal example does not an industry trend make.
And yet, no one finds it hard to believe that flight attendants are being *insert your most memorable dictator here*
Mayne because people hear of a few examples and (maybe mistakenly) apply it to the majority?
The one flight I took in covid the fa was screaming about people not to take thier mask off when everyone had theirs on
Lol, these stupid fkn flight attendants have taken the same approach after 9/11. They are they to sling peanuts and drink and hang up coats. Now all of a sudden they are safety experts and will throw you off the plane for looking at them crossways. They need to STFU and go back there pouring me a drink.
You are either blindly stupid or proudly ignorant. Neither of which I’d want to be near as you drink yourself into a drunken state.
Scientifically justified or not, aircraft are among the places where people feel the least safe. Just adapt best you can
This is what happens when a senile old man is elected. You get scientifically unsound things like having to continuously touch your mask so that you can wear it when eating.
Note: I didn’t vote for the other clown either
How is this Biden’s idea? He isn’t a scientist and he didn’t write the recommendations. Take it up with the scientists, since obviously you know more than they do.
Be quite! You’re hateful, idiotic and wrong to say the least.
Seems you prefer a pathological lying, con, self-serving leach looking out for your interests. Ignorant and proud!
An unmentioned flip side, that should be a part of this article: in some companies, if the flight attendants do not file a mask report for a situation and a passenger writes to the company about their seat mate, the flight attendant receives a “performance deduction” or a threat of one. It’s happened to a number of flight attendants. These negative letters due to “non enforcement” are put in a persons file, even if they honestly didn’t see the event.
My personal commentary about the article is that the rules are simple. A mask, when worn as a mask should, is to cover your nose and mouth. If it’s under your nose, you aren’t wearing it. If it’s slipping down your nose, ask for a tighter mask.
Well put Kyle.
If you buy the ticket then you’re expected to follow the rules (regardless of their scientific, moral, or ethical value). Problem with U.S. law/rule enforcement is we can’t trust–at least I don’t–those with authority to use it reasonably and proportionally. As you say, not every violation should be treated as imminent threat to life and limb.
I have a related anecdote from Delta: the gate agent barking at the FA for moving people around on the plane prior to push-off (many people were assigned middle seats mistakenly). She said it was a “serious safety issue” and they should wait until she closed the door. Could have sworn the announcement always says, “Ladies and gentlemen the boarding door is now closed we now require all passengers to please be seated” but hey what do I know?
Regarding masks while eating, it would be better to go with the old grade school school bus rule of no eating or drinking allowed. Even if it is a 15 hour long haul flight. That way, the mask never comes off, AND you are not forced to constantly touch your mask. If you want to eat or drink on board, be sure to make a stop in a country other than the USA
True, flight attendants can be draconian at times but most of the times they don’t really seem to care about cleanliness, safety, or service – especially in the U.S. Compared to Asian attendants who check every overhead bin, make sure the person in front of you doesn’t recline into your face when you’re eating, and clean bathrooms every 30 mins – you see American attendants gabbing away in the galley and ignoring everything.
Some are probably fearful that if a spreader event happened on their flight, they would be punished or bad press would leak. Sure, some people innocently don’t realize their face coverings aren’t worn properly, but we all should be more vigilant as our lax behavior could get someone else sick.
Within this blog we’ve seen posts about crazy anti-mask passengers and sure enough, there are also crazy flight attendants who will go to outrageous lengths to enforce any rule.But these are singular events not reflective of the thousands of flights every day.
This is a great way for “well-intentioned” people to use anecdotes to try an invalidate an entire policy.
Mask vigilantism? Hardly. More like cherry picking anecdotes to prove your point…I guess 500k isn’t enough.
Amen.
I would be somewhat sympathetic to FA’s taking a strong fisted approach on masks if this was last year or in January even. When the anti maskers were being flagrant and proper compliance was haphazard. But lately I see no issues with mask wearing at all. Every flight I have been on people are even taking sips and, like me, putting it back on. Bottom line is that this is now more than just an airline requirement, it’s federal law. And people know it. We are not hearing any longer about the idiots touting their maskless faces on planes – so I think the FA’s can tone it down a bit. But, of course, they won’t…because they love to throw around their attitudes and try and stir drama. This while they pick pocket the American taxpayer for bailouts.
Seriously what is wrong with Americans? People in Asia, Europe, Australia and New Zealand don’t seem of have the loads of “mask issues” that Americans have. I seriously wonder how anything gets done here when people can’t even get the basics about wearing a mask correctly right. It’s shockingly bad, or I guess may not as seeing how we have intentionally dumbed down much of the popular over the past decades.
I hate to throw all United FA’s under the bus but in my experience, over the years on many airlines, it seems like United FA’s (on average) really like to tell you about how they are there “primarily” for your safety but are very unfriendly about this sort of thing. I have cut my flying down to very minimal levels as I find it hard to breathe for long periods (due to my asthma) with a mask on. I also don’t like it much so why bother putting myself in that position for long periods. I’m worried the theater of Covid precautions will continue into the future much like the TSA war on water.
If any airlines feel so strongly about reporting mask issues they should just have police officers waiting for every flight so that lead FA can just hand them a report and have them arrest anyone that stepped out of line during the flight.
Wholeheartedly agree with this. The more airlines “remind” us that FAs are there “primarily for our safety” – despite them having minimal actual safety training aside from how to put on a life vest and open a door slide – I’m reminded that NO, they’re not here primarily for our safety. FAs remain sky-restauranteurs/servers who happen to wear a second hat as evacuation directors on rare occasions. Except in the times-of-yore when FAs were actual RNs, FAs have been a customer-service role providing food and drink and other customer service-y items during flight. This by no means gives *any* pax a free pass to be a d*ckhead, though. But in the event of an emergency then, yes, they provide an airplane evacuation-specific role. But let’s be completely honest: No, 5’6” and 180-lb Karen who barely fits down the aisle herself is *NOT* going to be able to drag the majority of customers to safety in an emergency when the cabin is on fire or filling with smoke. And I can’t imagine screaming “Brace, brace, brace!” requires a ton of training. So the whole mantra of “here primarily for [my] safety” is laughable at best.
United requires the flight attendants to make separate mask announcements during boarding, during the safety demo, during welcome/after takeoff, and again just as they are starting the meal service. Each of these announcements is written by United to sound very scoldy/preachy/threatening.
If they notice any passenger non-compliance (this includes masks worn under the nose whether or not the customer intends to make a “statement”), they are required to make another announcement, report non-compliance to the captain so he/she can make an announcement, give the customer a written card with our mask policy on it, and eventually, write a report for the company. Again, all this is for masks not worn over the nose and mouth for the duration of the flight…whether or not the person was doing it intentionally. And your mask can be removed only long enough to place a bite of food or a sip of beverage in your mouth; you have to do the chewing and swallowing with the mask on.
If you don’t like it, take it up with Biden voters or complain to United management. The FA’s are just doing what they’re being paid to do by their employer. And they FA’s are the authority on the plane whether you want them to be or not. Also, for every customer who has a mask under his/her nose, there are a dozen who write in complaining that the flight attendants didn’t deal with the customer with the mask worn improperly.
I think the mask mandate is stupid. I have not seen even one scientific study that shows they’re at all effective. I can’t breathe in the stupid things and after about 5 minutes of wearing one, I go hoarse and lose my voice. But none of that matters. What matters is there’s a stupid United policy in effect and an even stupider, stricter government policy in effect, and the people in charge of enforcing it are the flight attendants.
They have long violated the acaa for forcing people like me who can’t medically tolerate masks to wear them without a personalized assessment as to our risk to the “safety” of the flight. The flight attendents take a personal point of pride in scolding and harassing people for this. I have experienced it, as have others. I was a frequent flier until about a month ago due to the insane stupidity from all this. Further, I had covid in December , and if a vax is useful at all (Ie herd immunity) I should have been exempt from the theater. Even the executive leadership said that masks are to “make their customers feel safe”, not actually keep them safe. There is more than enough evidence to prove that they are for theater, not actual usefulness. I can cite no less than 20 studies, 2 of which were published in the last 6 months. But instead we believe faucis moving goalposts as the only true “scienceTM”.
I wonder who is more ignorant and uninformed, JM or Brandon…
Aaron, would you really like me to link all the studies to prove your ignorance? Move along kid.
Note to self: Avoid United at least while the mask requirement is in place.
It’s easier said than done when I work 600 miles away from my home and my company makes one of the vaccines Aaron so desires.
Airplanes have emergencies a ridiculously small percentage of the time. If I was ever on one that had an emergency, I’ll gladly get myself off the damn thing without the “help” from these sky-losers. Since the only service they really provide these days is keeping the jumpseat warm anyway. I think its time to evaluate doors that pop open on their own in an emergency. AEDs can be operated by normal people too just like at shopping malls…no flight attendants needed to harass people there. Hopefully April 1 comes, Creepy Joe’s subsidies dry up and another round of these clonws are dethroned and bounced back to Walmart.
This blog has gotten out of control with the horrible takes lately.
Thanks for reading, Bob!
The truth is always hard to absorb. Keep writing KYLE!!
It has not been proven that Coronavirus cannot be transmitted on the airplane. What has been proven is that surface transmission is rare (hence sanitizing surfaces isn’t important) and that airborne transmission is the primary vector (and mask compliance is effective in reducing airborne transmission.) I see so many cases of what’s been called “dick nose” with the mask below the nose, which renders it ineffective for nose breathing, so I do appreciate flight attendants who are proactive about reminding passengers. Is it grounds for arrest or removal? No. But should the flight attendants request that people keep the masks covering their noses? Absolutely. It’s a no-win situation for the flight attendants. Cut them a little slack and just comply.
Not fastening your seat belt puts only you at risk. Having the mask below your nose exposes everyone in your vicinity to the particles you exhale. Especially during boarding and deplaning. Less infections is good for everyone. And no one wants the long haul impacts if they happen to get a serious case.
It’s been proven via a CDC rct from 2011 that mask do nothing to stop the spread of influenza and covid is spread via the same mode of transmission. But it’s OK, I’m sure as a pharmaceutical engineer, I don’t know what I’m talking about. It’s a good thing I’m not working for a company that is actually producing your vax, Karen….. Oh wait, I do. Thanks for making it that much harder for me to get to work every week.
But the CDC also said masks slow down the spread of Covid, so they do help in that regard (though people also really need to social distance and clean their hands as much as possible too).
Oh yes…I, too, remember when “online pharmaceutical engineer of questionable credentials responding to comments on a travel blog” was the same as “epidemiologist”. Oh, internet anonymity…how we love thee.
It helps if you actually look for the data, crackpot. 71% who were werent infected wore masks along with 74% who were. But I get you people have your fauci god to worship instead of finding actual data. I’m sure you missed the danish study, as well. Or the fact that mask compliance has been well north of 85% yet we still had skyrocketing cases…. But yes, they work splendidly…..
Shaming innocent passengers isn’t ok. Pointing a finger and saying to another flight attendant…”that’s him” and moving him to the back? I’m done.
It’s simple really… everything is fine and good till someone gets killed or seriously hurt trying to enforce these silly rules. Personally, I have seen two broken noses and a general beating of people trying to enforce these rules…
This entire article is a joke, as long as we’ve been in this pandemic and wearing masks you know when your mask drops below your nose. Every single person who is still breathing knows when their mask drops below their nose.
The guy is on an airplane with his mask below his nose, his status doesn’t matter, the fact that is was on his computer does not matter, he knew his mask was below his nose and yet did nothing to correct the problem until a flight attendant reminded him of the policy. Flight attendants have died because of COVID and and thousands more sickened and hospitalized. Do the lack of contract tracing in this country it is 100% impossible for anyone to say when or where any of those flight attendant contracted the virus. When an adult passenger sets foot on an aircraft they should not need a flight attendant to come by and remind that their mask needs to cover their nose.
Read actual studies for once in your life and turn off the news. There is the danish study, the CDC’s own admission via multiple studies that the asymptomatic don’t spread, and that 71% of those who contracted the virus did so while wearing masks, along with the worst states having some of the highest compliance rates. So if you are too lazy to actually fact check the official “sources”, then please stop posting.
Masks aren’t worn to protect people from getting the virus, they are worn to stop people from spreading the virus.
Also, as of August 2020, around 30% of patients who tested positive for the coronavirus were asymptomatic, but they still carried just as much of the virus as symptomatic patients—and for nearly as long—according to a study that experts say provides the first scientific evidence of asymptomatic transmission of the pathogen.
The asymptomatic don’t spread. The who recently confirmed, again, what the rest of us non-Karen’s already knew. Thanks for playing again.
I think you selectively ignored the part where it had slid down without him noticing. It wasn’t falling off his face, the top of it had come down to the tip of his nose, it hadn’t even dipped fully below the nostrils. And she didn’t remind him. She ran to the back and told a different flight attendant to confront him because he was non-compliant, she didn’t know whether he was rebelling and willful but assumed that was the case. Reminding someone sounds like, “would you mind moving that mask up to cover both your nose and mouth, it’s a federal mandate.” Not, “if you refuse to become compliant the authorities will arrest you.”
But that completely baseless claim that flight attendants have died because of COVID and thousands more sickened and hospitalized – you’re going to need to cite a study or a source. Has a person employed as a flight attendant died of COVID? Undoubtedly. Did they catch it on a plane out of 100,000,000 cases, maybe but scientifically extremely unlikely for a variety of reasons, one of which is cited in the post itself. Thousands are sickened and hospitalized? Complete and utter fabrication. We all agree we should follow the science and the facts, but this is absolute nonsense you’ve made up and I beg you, please, prove me wrong.
Is it any less nonsense that making a claim like “Mask Vigilantism Is Out of Control on Flights” without also providing numbers and statistics?
Four announcements and two compliant frequent flyers being threatened with a disrupted trip and incarceration seems to be out of control to me, but I guess we know what opinions are like.
Yes, some more than others.
KYLE– you are so correct in your perception. I am now a FORMER Flight Attendant with AA for MAINLY this reason. Mask Vigilantism is REAL….and there’s a simple explanation. Flight Attendants go thru a militaristic-style boot camp training with never an opportunity to really be in charge of anything (the Captain is in charge) so finally they get to bully someone who can’t fire them….they are completely BORED because there is no longer a beverage service in coach. If there was….the FAs would be scrambling (as was usual) to prepare the carts for the flight. The whole thing is out of control—and its quite a regular thing. The career has completely changed….I didn’t sign up to fly with knucklehead power-trippers! Over it.
“militaristic-style boot camp training”? Ok then…
Hey Aaron….flown anywhere lately?
Why yes I have, thanks for asking.
Kyle is a trump supporter who is ashamed to say he is a trump supporter. So he chooses highly anecdotal and myopic interactions from his everyday life and projects them on this blog in order to get at these right-wing talking points. Quite sad really.
As far as the situation is concerned, power hungry flight attendants are nothing new in the US. They have existed for 20 years, and will exist for 20 more. The fact that they came across a mask infraction is not a reflection on masks (which keep us safe from COVID until widespread vaccination), but rather on the flight attendants themselves.
100% correct. Disappointing to see subjective editorializing on a site ostensibly dedicated to aviation.
It happened on a plane and the editorial is about flights. What’s the problem?
I”m not a Trump supporter. THIS has NOTHING to do with TRUMP– stop politicizing everything….you must be bored too. You have nothing better to do. Ugghhh.
Kyle, can you post a picture of your Hello Kitty mask?
Still using the WeWork mask they sent me.
Bro. You know when your mask is below your nose. It cannot accidentally happen for more than a few seconds after speaking. The guy knew what he was doing and was in fact trying to flout the rules. The flight attendants were correct to single him out. Period.
Has your mask ever slipped without you noticing?
No. I’ve also never had my pants and underwear slip to my ankles without noticing, so there’s that.
Then you haven’t lived!
No
WRONG WRONG WRONG— you weren’t there.
I was a flight attendant for 35 years until recently. Believe me, there are lots of little sergeants out there with no common sense. There’s also a lot of Karen’s on flights that can jade even the kindest of us. No matter your profession, pick your battles with caution.
Totally fair comment.
ITS NOT ONE> ITS HAPPENING REGULARLY!! I’m now an EX FLIGHT ATTENDANT because I can’t stand flying with these idiots.
I have a feeling none of your former co-workers are missing you all that much either lol
Cringe worthy, anti science whining. Why does anyone think this passes for journalism?
It’s a blog.
All of these “idiot”comments are true. only 2 real points. Did you actually note that “However, if a person is quietly working with their mask on, flight attendants should recognize the difference between an error for which they may not have even been aware versus a direct and intentional contradiction” Seriously !? its over a year. Maybe he shouldn’t wear one, he’s breathing good air.
2. “This is all despite United intensely cleaning the aircraft between flights, distributing hand sanitizer wipes to every passenger as they board, and utilizing Hepa filters that United and the DoD have proven make it virtually impossible to transmit the virus on board a plane.”. You should really change the sources of your news. Maybe something in a scientific journal?
@Linda – thank you for reading and for your comment. I would welcome an alternative source from a scientific journal on the topic. The problem is, I haven’t been able to find one and I doubt you can either. We have a number of studies that have put the risk of catching COVID-19 on an airplane at 1:11 million based on confirmed cases, and dying from contracting COVID on a plane at about 1:270 million, again, based on confirmed cases – which puts you in the realm of winning the Powerball. In fact, there have been just 10 more people that have died from contracting COVID on an airplane than have walked on the moon (12 on the moon, 22 dead from contracting COVID on a plane.)
If you have a study, let’s post it. If you don’t, then this study probably holds more weight than any hunches you might have, right? I’m just following the science but you do you.
Simple answer. United sucks. Fly Delta.
Whilst some of the thoughts here are interesting, I can’t see the point of the story about four people with the double masks and face shield.
As stated in the article, it’s not known their situation. They might be on their way to visit an elderly sick person that really can not risk being infected for what we know.
So.. with that in mind, what IS the point of the story? I really can’t fathom it.
The point of the story is that there’s a difference between being intentionally disruptive (and needing the assistance of the authorities) and an innocent mistake. Yet there’s little to no recourse for the passenger in that situation.
With regards the four face masks – sure, there could be a good explanation, but it’s also a little ridiculous (see the citations included if you’re confused) and touching seats on the way back is likely far worse than wearing just one or two masks.
I disagree with the point of this article. You know that you are supposed to wear a mask properly and wearing it under the nose is not proper. And you must realize that you are doing that – if you don’t, then you should pay attention to it. I found the approach of the FAs perfectly reasonable since if someone lets his mask under the nose, he clearly isn’t very concerned about wearing it and it’s fine making it clear to him that that is not fine.
There’s a big difference between “sir, your mask fell down” and “I’m going to have you arrested.”