A passenger on Southwest Airlines was denied boarding for wearing lewd, obscene or patently offensive clothing. But the incident presents some mixed feelings for me.
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The Incident
A female Southwest Airlines passenger was initially denied boarding due to a policy prohibiting “lewd, obscene or patently offensive” clothing by a gate agent. The passenger challenged the denial and requested the policy from the gate agent who attempted to look it up and present it. While the agent was looking up the policy, the passenger began to record the incident, releasing it on social media. Ultimately, the captain offered a shirt to allow her to cover herself, board and make it to her destination.
Y’all I was KICKED OFF my @SouthwestAir flight because my boobs are “lewd, obscene and offensive.” I was told that passengers may look at me in my attire and be offended. The attire in question: https://t.co/tOAxZsFDU5 pic.twitter.com/S9W9gFXpg6
— Kayla Eubanks (@UziSuzy) October 6, 2020
Acceptable In Public
The passenger’s top would have been acceptable in most areas of the public. Yes, it’s obvious that her top would have been acceptable at the beach or a swimming pool, but that’s not all. As one commenter on Matthew’s post accurately mentioned, this outfit would be acceptable at most restaurants.
However, some restaurants require men to wear a jacket or tie. Some bars won’t allow hats, opposing team jerseys, or certain colors of shirts.
Some of her comments ring hollow. She states at one point in one of her videos (all available in the linked post above) that her nipples aren’t showing, therefore it’s not offensive. That’s a pretty easy argument to dispel. Most agree that solely covering the nipple is not appropriate in public; those that disagree are in a very narrow minority. But her top was not nearly as revealing as that.
Airline’s Prerogative
It’s always the airline’s choice. They are a business and are entitled to set their own standards (as exact or inexact as they like.) While their staff couldn’t find the rule in their system, Matthew pointed out that it’s in the contract of carriage which is accessible on the carrier’s website – the passenger could have shut off her live feed and searched it herself.
However, Southwest’s language is intentionally vague. What one person finds offensive is completely subjective. Southwest has left this choice up to staff, rather than an outline of every acceptable and unacceptable item. Being too specific would handcuff staff and force legalistic arguments at the gate that may be unnecessary.
Some commenters on Ms. Eubanks’ Twitter feed had suggested that she was travelling on a Buddy Pass (discounted/free travel for friends/family of Southwest employees) which has separate but equally vague requirements. The passenger clarified she paid for her ticket so instead would be subject to the contract of carriage.
Recourse Available
If the customer feels that their clothing wasn’t “lewd, obscene, or patently offensive” she has recourse.
- The passenger can file a complaint with Southwest customer support.
- The passenger can try their case in the court of public opinion on social media.
- The passenger can choose not to fly with the carrier.
- The passenger can file a complaint with the DOT, sure to grab the carrier’s attention or;
- The passenger can sue for damages.
This guest chose option #2 though they may try any of the others as well. I doubt the passenger would be successful in court or with the DOT. As she chose to try her case in the court of public opinion, results have been mixed. Some agree that she shouldn’t have been denied boarding, others think that Southwest was right to initially turn her back.
The airline may also choose to discipline the employee (if they disagree with her assessment), terminate her, compensate the passenger, or commend the employee if they agree with her decision. As loose as Southwest has left their guidelines, their gate agent should be commended for calmly handling the situation as should the pilot for his attempt to resolve the situation.
Conclusion
I don’t think it was so clearly “lewd, obscene, or patently offensive” sufficiently enough to deny the passenger boarding. That said, the customer agreed to subject themselves to the determination of the acceptability of her ensemble at the gate when she bought the ticket. Due to the lack of clear guidelines, both the employee and the passenger were right. From what we can see of the garment, the passenger didn’t feel it was a violation and I think that it’s possible to see it from her perspective. But she also agreed to be subjected to the gate agent’s discretion.
What do you think? Was the gate agent, the passenger or both of them right? Do you find it lewd, obscene, or patently offensive? If so, which one – the passenger would like to know?
But the vagueness of Southwest’s policy is exactly why they are wrong and the woman is right. No one is saying that you can’t have a dress code, but to use your jackets at restaurants example, restaurants make that requirement clear in advance. If they are going to allow pilots and GAs and FAs to deny boarding for a low cut top, they also need to make sure passengers know what the rules are and where they could run into trouble.
I agree, however het top looked like a bikini top. Not appropriate for flying in close quarters with people. My opinion
I agree, common sense tells a person to dress modestly in a situation like that
Her attire was totally inappropriate. Thought that it was kind of the pilot to give her his shirt to help with the situation. But she should reconsider her attire when traveling.
I sat next to a woman that wore similar clothing during a flight many years ago.
I am a heterosexual male. While I didn’t consider her top sexually stimulating in any way, what I was offended by was having to breathe droplets of her perspiration for the entire two hour flight.
Nevermind the ‘sexual’ issues, PLEASE cover up your bare skin and wear a mask out of consideration of those seated around you.
Given the health issues we have today,
it is all-the-more important to not be selfish and be considerate of others around you!
Cover your [redacted by admin] chest up it’s not a freak show. Be a woman as well as a lady. You left too much for the imagination. You couldn’t have stepped in my airport like that.
When I go to a beach or swimming pool, I would expect this attire. Since that is an EXPECTATION, then I have the option of not going to the pool or the beach. I don’t expect that on an airplane. Additionally, this is an adult and as such, she should expect the negative comments, the opposition of her attire and the disdain of looking at her breast by other passengers. Expect the unwanted snears since you choose to wear “attention seeking” clothing. Vague policy or not, use a little common sense.
She was looking for 15 Minutes of Fame..If that had been someone else don’t think she would have approved of them…Guesse she wanted her BOOBS TO GET A DOUBLE DIVE..But seriously there’s a time & place to dress like that & thst was definitely NOT THE PLACE OR TIME
One needs to consider the place they are going before they choose their outfit. Personally I think it was a bit much but as a woman, I would not be offended. It’s a look at me outfit. Use common sense
As a former airline employee, this attire is NOT appropriate for travel. Any person with a brain would know that this is not appropriate public travel attire.
I feel the passenger was wrong. She claimed it happened because she is a woman and especially a black woman, even though all races have run into this issue and one white woman who didn’t show nearly as much was detained by SW in 2007. No one was rude to this latest passenger. Everyone was polite. There was no one that got on dressed similarly for her to continue to say she was targeted. Although she was calm at one point, at another she screamed across the airport “should I have left my titties” at home? This was totally inappropriate. She talked over the pilot, was loud and sarcastic say “oh great” when he said he was the pilot in a non authoritarian non intimidating way, yet he just wanted to help. I found her to be very disrespectful drawing attention to the scene. I do not believe she was at all embarrassed like she claims because they talked quietly to her and off to the side when first approached. She made it big and she tried to shame the employees. I truly do not believe the employees were vindictive or jealous, they had breasts too after all. Plus they were the same ethnicity. This was non racial. It was not body shaming nor body policing. SW is a family airline. It’s cold in the cabin. No one made her change her whole outfit. A little sweater only for the flight was not unreasonable. She took the captain’s shirt just to get on them removed it on the flight. You’re in close quarters with other people, a little respect is not too much to ask. Her supporters say it’s just skin and has nothing to do with the flight because they dont see the big picture. I do not believe a stricter policy is helpful, no one will be at the gate with a tape measure. It’s about common sense. Most passengers have it. When one doesn’t it’s up to the employees. The employees were busy working but now have to look up a rule ? It’s not like it changes anything. She was holding up the flight by not putting on the shirt. I’m she she had a light jacket but sounds like she said no thus the captain going out of his way. I don’t believe she was lewd at all but she was not tastefully dressed and that is in the SW contract. There was no “principle.” If there was I’d say fight for it but she was simply being petty and took a rule we all have to abide by personally. She chose to be entitled rather than proper.
The problem with this lewdness policy is that the agent may allow another passenger equally lewd to get away with it, for one reason or another. The other issue is that another later with the same top but less endowed might not physically pose as a “lewdness threat “
Sorry, not appropriate for a flight, not even a little bit, put some clothes on!
If the woman had of been smaller busted, nothing would have been said. This is not lewd attire, it is just not appropriate for flying. Also, I fly all the time, at least prior to COVID and she is going to freeze! It’s cold on the airplanes and blankets usually are not available due to the potential to spread illness.
A big boobed woman shouldn’t have her tits falling out of her top on a public airline. She looks dressed for a music awards show or the streets. It’s not appropriate and she knew it and was looking to push her agenda, whatever that is.
My thoughts exactly!
Dressed for the strip club. Ho
Obviously she wanted attention and she got it. She knew exactly what she was doing. No victim here.
Bikini tops are appropriate at the beach or pool. Not on a flight.
it does? a situation “like that”? like what???
avert your eyes martha
You get treated by how you dress when traveling folks. I was taught that 25 years ago. These people do not know you, the only way they can judge you is by first impressions. Smile often, be polite and dress nice. It will get you a long way. I’m pretty sure this lady had a shirt in her bag to put on, but chose to draw attention to herself instead.
1. It appears she wanted to provoke a response, and she got it. 2. I wouldn’t want to sit next to a stranger who was wearing only a “bralet,” as it was apparently named, in the sort of close quarters we find on a plane. Call it what you will; it’s an undergarment. Put on a shirt.
As a parent and grandparent, I would not want my children or grands see any person dressed like this. Perception is always in the mind of the beholder, as no one can read the mind of another. Any kind of exposure like this seems like an in-your-face assault. Why dare little ones, modest people, or anyone to have to deal with what they might as an unnecessary sexual dare or statement? What might seem like a fashion statement to one seems an arrogance and hurtful to others.
You’re right! I agree.
ridiculous sexist country what’s next they gonna measure your skirt length?!!!
For what it’s worth, it was a female gate agent that chose to deny boarding, so she’d be sexist against her own sex.
I completely agree with Lilly. Well written. Unfortunately, some people are just all about themselves and refuse to take into consideration other people and context. “Common sense”seems to have lost its meaning….
Whereas sexism definitely is ripe in some aspects of the country. I don’t think it’s right to call this sexist. I’ve no doubt if a man wore the same thing trying to board an airplane, he too would be denied.
I just had the same thought.
@Kyle Stewart Which is sadly common. Misogyny, like other forms of discrimination can be instilled as normative to those that are victims of the discrimination. Thise same victims can perpetuate it.
Is it really easier for you to see a case of misogyny committed on a woman of color by a woman of color as a result of discrimination Stockholm Syndrome rather than the commonality her top shared with a bathing suit or bra?
The passenger is obviously looking for attention and/or grounds for legal action. More of the same ole same ole for 2020.
Good morning! She was not appropriate. She is to dim to recognize this
Definitely the choice of the business. It is also the choice of the consumer, I’m cancelling my southwest card and will be choosing to fly other airlines from this point forward.
Y’all would have been much better off apologizing and moving on rather than attempting to justify.
Bye, bye southwest!
Let’s be real on lewd, I bet you anything that she was being mouthy or loud during the boarding process and probably drunk, I bet what happened was a sequence of events that led to the gate agent stopping her. I really don’t care if you or anyone else wants topless women on the plane-good for you, there will be bars at your final destinations for that. What’s next? A man with a gstring?? Have some class when flying, stop being disgusting, take a shower, put on clean clothes and be careful what you wish for.
To Josh: OK, bye. One less in the cattle-car boarding area. Any other takers?
The employee was Ethiopian and the passenger was American. Not the same ethnicity.
How did you ascertain this?
A good measure of this would be to ask if Barry Gibb tried to board wearing his shirt open down to the 4th button showing a wild patch of chest hair and wearing a peacenik symbol like they did in the 70’s “hippie” generation tried to board. If that is okay then she should have been allowed. At least she doesn’t have chest hair! I find that style offensive with males too.
The airline did good because later they gonna want to be naked and get offended by rules and policyes of decency on airlines
I do not want to.see some one milk jug they club in the plane please a jacket on
Outfit was not lewd and obscene. This isn’t the 1950’s. The passenger should not have been stopped. For those who say opposite you are entitled to your opinion but why is it bothering you so much- it’s not like the passenger was going to be walking up and down the aisle the entire flight, right? The outfit wasn’t going to cause you irreparable psychological harm, right? Stop sexualizing women’s bodies and stop staring.
Are you implying that the female gate agent that made the decision was sexualizing the passenger’s body?
avert your eyes martha
Who are they? Women? You should be more specific. Men wear test-taking clothing depending on their fashion choices, plenty on skin tight shiny jeans with the outline of their package showing. I was told I had to take off my studded belt in my 20’s because it could make people uncomfortable. This was after I checked in went through security and while I was boarding so I didn’t have enough time to go put it in my bag and was told I needed to throw it away. I dressed like a punk, fishnets, skirt started belt and a top. I felt singled out because they said that people would be uncomfortable with the way I was dressed and I brought up everyone has their own style and any different style can make someone uncomfortable, they weren’t asking people to pull up their pants who sagged, for people who wore head garments to take them off even though it made people uncomfortable after 9/11 (and no I don’t agree with discrimination and that’s how I was feeling about the situation). In the end there was nothing I could do and I had to throw out my belt the girl sitting next to me on the plane had a 5-in corkscrew in her purse but they were worried about my studded belt making people uncomfortable and at this time in my life I flew almost every weekend and wore studded and bullet Ben’s without any issues up until this point. She is a woman with breasts and a lot of women wear scoop neck or v neck tops that show cleavage, it just feels extreme on the flights side but at least the captain was kind and understanding.
I think the take away here is that there are people that would like to preserve a certain level of class and modesty. There are people who rebel against those ideas citing “personal rights” solely because they don’t want to conform to the ‘standard’.
Bottom line: Personal rights vs current standards of modesty, morality and class. Each generation seems to disagree with the last, so while we’re gaining freedom, we’re losing much more.
I agree. She was most definitely seeking attention. Whatever happen to modesty?
I think that she should have changed tops without a word.
If she wants to wear the top on a beach that is fine but not on a flight
This is clearly a case of misguided members of society being morally subjective. I’ve flown a million miles in my career and have seen just about everything. Her top wasn’t lewd, her breast are larger than your average woman, they’re what they are. They were covered and ready for takeoff.
If nipples or even an aereola were visible, I’d request a wardrobe adjustment. So, in my opinion, the gate agents need to take an ‘L’ on this one.
what about bikini clad Bar Rafaelli on the side of SWA planes, wearing less than the passenger? it’s okay to use sexy to sell seats but not to sit in them??
My take is men should stop policing women’s bodies in articles.
Articles of clothing or written articles?
Good play my man.
I would have avoided the problem and had not given the attention to a women who may have been seeking the notoriety and let her board. From what I can see she is covered and you can’t forget that all of us on camera everywhere we go. Even if the employee is justified, the employer will do anything to avoid the bad press.
I remember when flying was a big deal and it was an occasion to dress for. Not that you need to be dressed up, but can you at least cover most of your body parts up so that it doesn’t have to stand in question whether you meet a basic standard dress code? How hard is it to use basic good judgment on her part.?
Well, ultimately that’s the issue, should we be legislating common sense? I think her outfit was ridiculous for a plane flight, but I defend her right to wear it.
I like the spirit of this response.
not appropriate state of dress. Unless you are in a club or a bar.
End of that story.
Exactly my thoughts. Absolutely a poor choice, but does that really warrant kicking her off a plane? I don’t think so.
I recognise Southwest’s rights to apply standards here but question the value in this case.
I feel that she should have dressed more appropriately. There were no doubt children on board and some people a very turned off myself included but not dressing appropriately for the occasion if she was on the beach or at a outdoor restaurants along the boardwalk and she would have been fine.
One last thing. Her attire is secondary to me over her attitude. Her rage over this is kinda ridiculous to me. Most women know that what they wear at work, church, their child’s school is different than club wear, gym wear, beacg wear and so on. But again, her response was over the top.
The woman was dresses inappropriately for travel, No she isnt required to ‘leave her Boobs at home’ but most definitely required to cover them up in close quarter settings. Common courtesy, common sense.
Another person attempting to be a victim & use a basic situation for attention & potential profit.
Exactly. Common courtesy.
I would have avoided the problem and had not given the attention to a women who may have been seeking the notoriety and let her board. From what I can see she is covered and you can’t forget that all of us on camera everywhere we go. Even if the employee is justified, the employer will do anything to avoid the bad press.
What is she advertising? She wanted attention..probably wherever she goes..completely not wear for traveling anywhere except maybe a bar
She was obviously” for sale”.
Wow, that’s one of those comments that goes with,”she deserved to raped bc of what she was wearing,” blaming the victim not the person who is mentally ill.
I don’t think it’s fair to call the gate agent mentally ill. She made a judgment call with which you may disagree, but she’s not mentally ill from what I could observe.
I just saw a U Tuber on my Facebook account in Africa showing an all female village with large round jewelry around their necks! The problem is their tits and nipples were very much fully exposed, however, their bodies were painted in a red brick and dirt mixture. However, in a you are so poverished and I am way above you attitude still out there today; no one screamed. But it is usual for African women to be shown breast out and sometimes all else out; so this woman may have felt that she was black, painted and at least her nipples and half of her breasts were covered. She was neatly dressed and this is what made her stand out from the African ladies cultures which other cultures love to see. I, like the Pilot would say, jealousy raised its ugly head and screams were let out. I am so glad no kids were near the U Tuber video I was watching and was highly offended, but what other cultures would care, they are greater than and better thaN.
You got all that from one photo? That’s called making assumptions, which is technically not able to be done based on a photo. You can’t know a personality, values, beliefs, etc from a photo.
Found her top to be quite sexy / provocative… But , not the best appropriate attire to be wearing, when traveling like that. Maybe a added button down shirt to cover a bit more, so can adjust the buttons, accordingly.
Should have been a bit more conceritive / respectful, of others.
Exactly. NOT APPROPRIATE!!!
try wearing that in the middle east amd see what happens
If they’re focusing on covering this woman’s body for some reason then they can also focus on covering people’s disgusting ass feet in flip flops on planes.
Like are y’all paying this much attention to what someone is wearing on a plane. Most people zone out on planes anyway so why does it matter.
Folks always trying to police what people wearing.
I don’t understand why anyone would wear this to travel- seems quasi inappropriate, but I’m almost certain that if she was a small breasted, this wouldn’t even be an issue.
Is she ridiculous? Yes!
But at the end of the day, it’s just tits on a plane & don’t we all have bigger issues…
Well I Feel she has a nice physic. She looks Great!! Some maybe a little envy. But I would of just thrown on a soft cotton white shirt until I got offfthe plane!!!
At the beach you are not packed side by side with strangers. In a place where you are, dress should be G-rated. I wouldn’t want to sit next to a man dressed for the beach or even showing that much chest
Good.
So hoe inappropriate! No body wants their kids to have to see this woman’s boobs hanging out. What an exabishanist! I only wish I could have been the person walking behind her on that plane. I would have pulled my pants down past my butty to show my thong, then unbuttoned my shirt down to my belly…..just to mock her! So self obzorbed?
Why I think Kayla was wrong? Name some difference between what she was wearing and bra(which is an innerwear). Are we going to start allowing people with innerwear? If no, then I don’t think she should be allowed. If southwest allows people with innerwear, then they are opening a pandora box that they have no control of how it will end up with.
There is a differene in whats allowed in beach/swimming pool vs whats allowed in the public transport and I think this is NOT one of them that should be allowed
This was planned in advance , for attention .
Of course, she’s the type that goes looking for a fight and on social media because she wants something. It’s a thing with people who are always seeking a fight.
I agree with Southwest
waiting for her 15 minutes of fame. Viral sensation, came prepared to record situation.
That was pure jealousy!!!
Her attire was definitely offensive to me and if I had young children with me it would have been patently offensive and I am glad they made her cover up a little. She was obviously seeking attention at any cost.
Then maybe don’t shelter your children or teach them to not be ashamed of their bodies. You shouldn’t be looking a her anyway with kids freak.
Are you touched in the head? Okay so you may wanna check your porn history.
How sad that there has to be a “policy” for people to know how to dress. You want to be treated like Royalty? Dress like Royalty.. they cover their bodies. How sad that Southwest would offer her a refund!! Take a stand, Southwest, and let her peddle her wares elsewhere.
She is an idiot. Not appropriate attire for flying. Time to grow up.
Bottom line use tour head. Dont dress to attract attention. That top was not showing cleavage it was showing breast. Dont need to see it. And if she feels she needs to show that much with the top cut to below her breasts the Sh may have more issues that not being able to be considerate of others. I dont fly brcause of the kind of people that do. All I hear about is fights, refusing to wear masks resulting in flight delays and people being ignorant with the attendants. Flying would be a horrible experience for me when it used to pleasant.
Is stupidity a side effect of Covid?
Stupidity is a side effect of social media.
All airlines need to adopt a dress code of clean non revealing clothes in order to step on an aircraft. There are children, people of different religions and beliefs, so we need to have dignity and respect for ourselves and others…no one should be subjected to looking at a man’s underwear or butt because their pants is too low or looking at a woman’s private parts because she is displaying it…there are strip clubs and various other places you can dress like that but an aircraft is not a place to display your underwear or private goods…you could be offending families and their children…The American public believes it is ok to look like a total mess in pyjamas, shower caps and revealing clothes so a dress code is severely needed on airplanes
I think the shower cap was a little over the top!
Would a man have been allowed to board if half of his junk was hanging out?
Females like her are the reason men have no respect for females
I think if she had worn just a little shear jacket all would have been fine… All in all it was a nice outfit but it exposed too much… Like the skirt tho…. I have to say I agree with the airline on this one… She looked like she just put her bra on and forgot to put her top on r jacket….
You are absolutely right. That is not a top or blouse. It’s a front closing bra…easier to put on. I have several. It is to be worn under clothing. She wanted to create a ruckus for the cameras and the airline fell into it. She should have been quietly taken to a closed room to discuss the matter and not been allowed to take her pictures in view of everyone. Then she would’ve put on her top that probably was in her bag and been done with it. Too much mollycodling.
What would the red carpet say? Still shouldn’t be to provocative because, there are sick people in this world.
Like others here, I support this woman’s right to dress in public any way she wants. However, she’s boarding an airliner with 100+ other passengers, all sitting in a confined space from which there is no exit for 2 hours. The aircraft is NOT a public space – It is owned and operated by the airline. They have a right to set policies and govern passenger behavior, including dress, in a manner that is acceptable. I think “Karen’s” outfit is well beyond the boundaries of what many people would find acceptable – especially if having to sit shoulder-to-shoulder with her for the duration of the flight. I totally support SWA’s right to enforce their policies, especially when people like this want to push the boundaries of what’s acceptable. In fact, I think the pilot went above and beyond by offering her a shirt so she could board the flight.
Another “It’s-all-about-me” entitled member of society, imposing her will on everyone else.
Showing too much…attention seeking and exhibitionists..
If anyone would say something sexual she would probably be insulted..Sad that women lower their standards in hopes of getting attention
She needs help to get dressed properly
Amazing that because she was recording it, on social media, and was all in the gate attendants face with her damn phone, she got what she wanted…I guess from now on I can wear my speedo and a crop top tshirt…opps, I can’t, I understand the rules and FOLLOW THEM WITHOUT WHIPPING OUT MY PHONE…Surprised she didn’t start screaming ” i can’t breath”
In my opinion, the outfit is inappropriate for this context. The close proximity in the airplane could make many people uncomfortable. There are children and various culture and religious representations aboard. They are also paying customers that deserve equal consideration. The lack of common courtesy and her willingness to subject herself to possible scrutiny by rejecting common sense was the risk she chose to take. I feel the gate attendant was doing her job and attempting to follow a loosely worded policy. The pilot went above and beyond. The outfit is just fine for some other venues or occasions..
The outfit looks like one that should be worn in a club, not on an airplane ride. It almost looks lime a bathing suit top which is not appropriate in my opinion. I personally don’t want to see it, on an airplane, in the grocery store, or anywhere else. There is a time and a place and I don’t feel this was it. I feel that the airline was well within their rights to ask her to cover up. It is called being considerate and thinking about others and not just ones self.
WHAT IF SHE WAS WHITE!!!
Here we go !
Sure, it’s the color of the boobs, not the amount of book! Don’t try and play that card, a– wipe!
If she were White, we wouldn’t be having this conversation, because SW would’ve NEVER risk insulting or embarrassing a White woman!
The gate agent that chose to deny her boarding was a woman of color. Hard to say it was because of race, especially with the white pilot giving her a shirt of his own to get her on the plane and to her destination.
So they can fly a plane with a bikini model on the side but when the passenger is inside its a problem? Interesting
Matthew covered this point in his post (linked within mine.) My point was simply that the airline left it vague enough for both parties. The passenger didn’t feel it was lewd, obscene, or patently offensive, and the gate agent did. Based on Southwest’s language, I don’t think either one did anything nefarious, despite Southwest’s Sports Illustrated livery.
Totally inappropriate. I just flew and was ashamed by others personal appearance. Especially because I was flying with my 7 year old granddaughter. Trying to teach her modesty is almost impossible with so many women having self confidence issues. Exposing yourself states your low self worth and low self esteem. I want my granddaughter to know she is special and beautiful because of who she is not because of what body parts she has to flaunt.
Show respect for others even when you don’t respect yourself.
C Reed — the Gate Agent was African American. Doesn’t sound like this was a race issue.
Honestly just glad to see something in the news about air travel attire that isn’t a mask use dispute. Bravo to WN for bringing it back to dubious tops.
And you don’t have to look. I hear the same exact arguments against public breastfeeding, basically word for word. One can advert their eyes. The world doesn’t revolve around individual persons.
She was not wrong for showin her tits, tf wrong wit the people that think she is? Me bein a woman I wear wat I want, even if people think its lewd or wateva the hell, so I see where shes comin from and totally stand by her. The airlines need to do they job and their job only, stop worryin about what somebody got on man or woman. Y’all need to be worried about this pandemic and all these crazy killings goin on by the poepoe hoe, instead of what Josh or Katy had on the other day. Geesh
She wanted attention and got it. I wouldn’t want to sit next to or near her. She ended up with a free ride on Southwest and some PR to help fuel her next moment of “outrage” over hanging her t&$@ out. What’s next her vagina? Probably not covered either, lucky not in pictures.
She specifically stated that she didn’t (presumably wouldn’t) display her genitalia.
Real class, lady. Learn how to speak English
So to prevent sexism and racism, let’s get rid of the common dress stress code? Let’s see how this works: It should be acceptable if a black or white male is also be allowed to wear a thong (banana hammock) speedo because technically it covers everything, so it should not be seen as lewd if I’m just showing off my curves in tight fitting skimpy clothing.
Let me pair my banana hammock with a tube top to show off my shoulders and expose my beer gut midriff to emphasize my curves I’ve spent so much time and money developing.
My style would be epic and not offensive or lewd?
There needs to be a common sense check when things go a bit too far. That’s why the policy is purposefully vague. This is a slippery slope to allow the airline or our country to lose common sense and dignity. I love Halloween but don’t want to see a man with a midriff tube-top and banana hammock boarding my flight with kids.
[redacted by admin]. Where did you get your high school diploma? From Walmart?
What next? Does Southwest decide all women should wear burkas?
It, Southwest, needs to publish a diagram or picture of exactly what is the minimum acceptable attire that both women and men can wear. Can there be a visible panty line? Can you see a bra through the top covering? When does cleavage become … well you get the idea.
Where common sense has left the room, which seems to be the case in many circumstances these days – there needs to be an explicit rule.
Planes seats are so small these days. To me any dress thats allows one body skin to touch against another’s body skin should be a BIG NO NO.
…..so one person wearing no sleeves and another person wearing short sleeves should be banned? Who are you to police what people wear? Someone with hot flashes must wear long sleeves to protect another person’s delicate sensibilities??
Please b…put dam clothes on. Nobody wants to see hang long breast! Thank you southwest!
I’m not policing what others wear but at the same time don’t put your body on me and ask me to accept it. I have no desire to look at you/your body or what you wear but at the same time I don’t need your body or your bodily fluids touching my body in any form/way.
I agree. It’s a slippery slope that I don’t want to go down. No one says anything about young men wearing pants falling off their butts, but breasts are ‘lewd’. Really ? Breasts are useful. They feed babies.
Ah, the old slippery slope fallacy. Just because you apply a rule of moderation doesn’t mean that they will eventually apply a rule of extreme.
I’m pretty sure if a guy walked onto a plane topless (or even with a shirt that only covered his nipples) he too would be told to put a shirt on.
Don’t fear the slippery slope. If South West requires full burkha no one will fly South West (or not enough to stay solvent).
All airlines walk a tightrope. On one side people who think it’s OK to wear a bikini ok a plane. On the other, people who find exposes flesh offensive. It’s one of those situations where they’re guaranteed to offend someone.
All airlines should have clearly published rules on dress code from online booking, ticket counter, ticket jacket, and posted at gate. Further the far reaching authoritarian draconian TSA should stop them before they get any further. Beach wear is only appropriate at the beach or pool. And yes we are all thinking the same thing, she’s black so she will see what she can get away with and then play the race card. Kudos to the agent on calling her out. As I see so many people walk by me with trashy clothes on and clearly have not showered in days I wonder what and where the pride in people went in the US. It’s not Trailer Trash Airlines
Nothing wrong with her dress attire! Wonen reported her were jealous.Black and Beautiful is what she is
Black women are beautiful. But why the desire to show so much of their body? Are our bodies not the Father’s temple? Are we as women not instructed to cover ourselves? Why place ourselves in a public position to be judged?
If she was white this would have never happened.
The gate agent that subjectively chose to deny the passenger boarding was a woman of color. Are you suggesting that the black, female gate agent was racist against a black, female passenger?
Out fit was way too offensive. Bravo to agent and pilot both for the way situation turned out.
The “jealous” thing doesn’t hold up.
About a year or two ago it was a chubby lady who went through the same thing and she made the argument she got blocked because she was overweight. (If I recall in her case she wasn’t wearing anything nearly as risque… Just sleeveless).
If you have a link for that, I would love to read about that incident.
Inappropriate for flying IMO. I also don’t like shorts where the ass cheeks are showing and sitting on the seats. YUCK.
Not even a comparison. Her breasts are not touching a seat.
She was using the airline like any form of publicly available transportation whether bus, train, or plane.
Her attire was appropriate for daytime and the weather.
It is not innerwear, so comparison to bras or underclothes is mixing subjects.
She didn’t wear the outfit to get attention whether positive or negative.
I have seen people in no bra with breaststroke that may not fit a bra comfortably and even covered up, it is obvious what they have up top.
I’ve seen the crack of a man’s derriere and they would be able to take a trip on that same airplane.
So this woman’s clothes were just fine.
The only time they will see her, is arrival and waiting the designated time in the terminal to board, and getting off and leaving.
Any other person’s individual offense to her clothes is not due to being in her presence all day, so leave her to her life and get over looking at her long enough to be offended.
People need to stop legislating clothing based on what they would wear or what they would buy.
We have moved from the days where women wore corsets and long dresses and rode horses side saddled.
I’m reminded of a girl telling me her mother turned a woman of the night away from church because of how she was dressed.
I asked, doesn’t your church say, come as you are? Was that all she had to wear when she was seeking salvation? Could you mother accommodate her in a part of the church where she would not be scrutinized by others there. Is that church only welcoming to people like you?
Discrimination begins in many ways and discrimination against someone’s choice of public clothing should be documented somewhere publicly.
Don’t wait until someone has paid for a service to tell them you refuse service because you gave an employee the power to decide what is acceptable about the person to be able to use the service.
Make the policy public.
Draw a picture to show what must be covered, front and back so we’d know if looking at the skin on someone’s butt is okay but seeing the skin on someone’s chest is not okay.
Intelligent and Insighful reply! Thank you!
I agree!
In this conflicted Puritanical society, people love to police women’s bodies—especially black ones. If Kayla Eubanks were a small-breasted white woman, she could have easily boarded her flight. Who cares what the court of public opinion or the author thinks?Eubanks should sue Southwest Airlines.
The gate agent that subjectively chose to deny the passenger boarding was a woman of color. Are you suggesting that the black, female gate agent was racist against a black, female passenger?
Do you think the requirements were clear enough to win in court?
In court you can’t come dressed like that.
True
You think this society is puritanical? That ship sailed 100 years . people have zero morality and shows in the way they act, dress, talk etc. This lady stood out because she wanted to. No one forced her to wear that outfit. I’m sure she has a mirror. If she wore that to get on a plane what does she wear to a night club. There are prostitutes wearing more in the daytime. Why do women dress for attention and then complain when they get it. I’m glad at least one airline has some minimum standards and they stuck by them.
She looks good…and this is not about race, or looking good. It is about thoughtfulness. Just asking the question of “would I wear this to church?” “Would my parents be offended?”
Here’s a thought: the airlines should have one size fits all ponchos..just hand the offender one and fly.
FWIW, I wouldn’t wear a t-shirt, shorts and flip flops to church but I would to Florida – though, to your point, my parents wouldn’t be offended. That said, maybe her parents wouldn’t be offended. That’s kind of why she’s in the right as much as the gate agent is. She didn’t find her attire to be lewd, obscene, or patently offensive so she didn’t feel she was doing anything wrong.
Some people just aren’t very smart. This is an example of what we have to deal with in Chicago. That mindset. Completely clueless and dressed to “sell”.
Absolutely agree!!
My god, image having to so sit next to it
It? You mean her? Sit your racist butt down.
I would have immediately complained. Maybe someone did.
In response to Tuesday! Smith
I am in total agreement with you in saying that you would have complained. I am also very glad to see that so many others in this post, both men and women, have expressed that they find this type of dress offensive.
I would have confidentially asked a member of the SW staff to relocate my seat immediately. This type of attire is disgraceful, period. With all of the challenges that people around the entire world has been subjected to over the past few months we do not need any additional stress/ distraction, particularly in these days of social distancing and on a flight in such close proximity with strangers. I am sure that we all appreciate and value the flights where everyone is considerate of others.
I do not know the source of the deception that seems to have swept this country over the past few years, causing many women to believe that this type of dress “empowers” a woman. This is unequivocally false. In reality, it tears a woman down, it makes her appear very insecure, immature and lacking in moral decency. It loudly indicates that her primary focus is on her body, rather than her mind and other areas of more importance.
I definitely believe that women should make every attempt to adorn themselves to be as attractive as possible and to dress suitably, but a self-confident woman does not draw such attention to themselves/ or force the outside world to pay attention to them through the wearing of socially-inappropriate attire.
It would be good if someone of influence could send out a message throughout this country that reverses this deception and teaches younger women and teenage girls that lewdness in behavior and attire does not empower women, but rather degrades and humiliates them, both internally (over a period of time) and publicly now.
She’s obviously lacking in intelligence. Welcome to Chicago. Low class getto.
Yes, an it.
Completely agree…a [redacted by admin] in the flesh!
I personally wouldn’t wear what she wore anywhere other than a beach, pool, spa, health club, or Carnival. As a New Yorker, older millennial and non-prude, I’ve seen worst so if I saw this outfit on a plane, I wouldn’t care. If airlines want to be this way, then they should establish a dress code. Simple as that because an outfit that is “offensive” to one person, is stylish or cute to another. Many people consider breastfeeding in public offensive, so I guess when I nursed my baby on Southwest the last time and flashed my nipple, a nearby passenger could have merrit to their complaint? Like KLM?? Give me a break. They should have just let this woman life her damn life. The downfall to women is other women. They hate on each other too often. No other passenger was bothered. The gate agent wasn’t taking the flight. Anyway, stop policing women’s bodies.
Passenger is in the wrong. There is a time and place to dress like this. This was not the time nor the place. People wear clothing out in public they shouldn’t. Just because they make it, doesn’t mean you should wear it. I believe she did this for attention and money. If black lives matter, she doesn’t value herself. You cannot pick and choose when life matters.
She’s obviously a [redacted by admin].
She was not wearing a top….. it looks like a bra… or halter (if we want to be technical it is a halter that covers as much as a bra) glad she is proud of her body. But we all know people tossed for wearing scantily clothed items.
She knew she would run to social media and I think she knew it was gonna get attention. Small children,weird men or women would stare.. she got her 5 minutes and harassing people who just wanna do their jobs. She is technically wrong. The pilot shouldn’t have said what he did. He should have been a team player and sided with gate agents now they know he doesnt care about them either.
Now she could go to a bar,dinner with friends at a 3 star restaurant or under but she knew airlines have clothing guidelines . She has seen the videos I am sure.
She wanted attention and thought 98% would side with her.
She is pretty and her outfit was good for a bar or club or lewd men staring.
My opinion..
Don’t think she’s pretty at all because all I saw was a attention seeking [redacted by admin]. Her ugly inside shines out.
She wasnt at a pool!
There is NO excuse why any woman big chested or not should be allowed on a plane with the boobs hanging out. Sorry not sorry. . She should have carried a light sweater or jacket.
Think of everyone else and stop trying to get attention. Ha guess the attention she got isnt what she was looking for. Learn from your mistake. Grow up!
Attention [redacted by admin].
Obviously an attentive seeking seller of self for fame type, entitled, thinks she’s making the world’s a better place ignorant of how she’s party of society’s degradation especially of those woc who don’t need her antics.
You sound like a hater.
I found nothing wrong with her attire. It would have been different had she been wearing something see through or a very short dress which is what many office women do and are accepted. What she chose to wear is none of anyone’s business and since the airline didn’t have a clearly defined dress code, the point is moot.
You see in some establishments “No shoes, no shirt, no service”. The owner of a private property can make its own rules of service. I agree with other comments, The Airline is too vague on the rules.. You are not flying in a party bus.
She looks like a cheap [redacted by admin]. I’d complain if I saw her boarding. Southwest was right to boot her. She’s LUCKY the shirt was offered. Low class [redacted by admin]!
Low class [redacted by admin]! What a [redacted by admin]!
Low class people like this makes those of us trying to bring fellow black people respect so much harder. She makes it harder for black people like myself to get the respect we deserve. Chicago blacks are like this though. In Cali, the black women I associate with understand how to act in normal society. This is an attentive seeking whore. That simple. Someone at SW had to intervene. The pilot just had a boner. Lucky for her he wasn’t gay.
Exactly. NOT APPROPRIATE!!!
Ok one more thing. She got a call from SW apologizing and a full refund. They called it good will. She tried to humiliate the airline and talked down to employees. I’m hoping at least the apology was one of those….we are sorry if you feel that….rather than an admission of guilt. They are not guilty. She and her supporters are using the race card, which is so wrong when people have suffered so much racism and continue to, then she comes along making a false accusation.
Lily, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Her outfit was tasteless and downright unacceptable looking like a tramp. She and others may think that it was sexy, I say that she lacks self esteem, and thinks that looking like a whore is okay in 2020 public for many. Sorry, not!
This comment is coming from a Afro-Latino who is bien Negro.
Yes, an “it”.
While I’m all for “wear as much or as little as you want”…. Society unfortunately is not. You are not living in your own utopia, and you have to adhere to the roles of society or you’re going to get this kind of treatment. Why?
That is clearly unacceptable attire to travel in. Period. Club? Fine. Posting for social media? Fine. Traveling? Absolutely not. Cover up or get kicked off.
Place her on a permanent “NO FLY LIST!!!
I agree with you. She should be blacklisted by all airlines. She can drive herself to wherever she needs to go next time if she has no decency for others or respects the right of a private business to set their own standards. I hope this idiot lost her job too — if she had one.
I completely agree with Lilly. Well written. Unfortunately, some people are just all about themselves and refuse to take into consideration other people and situation/context. “Common sense”seems to have lost its meaning….
Shes pulling a Sue Ellen Mischke.
This is my personal opinion.
SW has the right to serve or deny a customer, just like any other service establishment.
Their policy regarding customers dress code is vague, so it does make it harder for their employees to enforce. In addition, their vague dress code policy does not protect their employees from customers’ abuse or retaliation.
The customer who wore a low cut blouse. She has her rights to dress the way she wants if she is not harming or causing a commotion. Out of curiosity, would this same passenger wear the same clothes to work or to an office setting or even to a business meeting?
I think the passenger has a rite to wear what she wants she is a paying customer.
Put decent clothes on lady when traveling you are a adult your mother taught you better…
Many people speaking out on this issue but keep silent on issues of a greater importance.
Open your eyes! It was lewd, tramp and whoring like clothing. And she should had been ashamed being a woman dressed in that manner. No or lack of respect of being a discrete lady. Again, tramp not sexy attire.
The outfit would be considered OFFENSIVE to anyone with certain morals and/or standards. Maybe for a trip on the SOUL PLANE/party plane it would be perfect, it’s a total club fit, but my vote goes to INAPPROPRIATE for the current activity.
Meh-what I want to know is did she get compensation for her trouble – miles or cash? In these COVID-19 times it is getting too hard to MS for us old, hairy, fat, balding guys. Perhaps we can get miles or cash by boarding Southwest in our Speedos and complaining when we get kicked off or told to cover up. People would surely set up a Fund Me account worth millions to keep those pictures off the Internet.
What a [redacted by admin]! Looks like a [redacted by admin]! There is no decency anymore! She should be ashamed…
Some might suggest that there is no decency in language these days either…
Best reply ever
To all those who think this DRESS is acceptable and who says what one wears is ones own decision and others should NOT be policing or looking at others body, raise your hands how many would be willing to sit next to someone who wears something like this or would allow their family members to sit next to a person who wear like this
[link removed by admin]
[note from admin] We don’t police comments and respect your right to say what you like (with FCC approved language) however the link didn’t meet our standards and was removed. Please feel free to describe the “garment” to achieve your purpose. Thank you for being a part of the LiveAndLetsFly community.
People amaze me. Not only was her outfit inappropriate, and then she definitely brought attention to herself. Perhaps a free flight was the goal along.
Let’s all just show up in thong bikinis. I mean if people are saying you can wear whatever you want… Really? I personally don’t want that much stranger’s skin touching me. Wear a shirt for crying out loud !
Her boobs are really “BUTT UGLY”.
Time for a DOUBLE MASECTOMY…..
Very inappropriate for being on an airplane.
I’d kick her off too. Or hide those things.
I read all the comments. I am shocked that no one is wondering how this woman can handle how cold the airplane gets. Personlly i think you would “see” those nipples soon enough; I would do my best to give her the attention she seems to be looking for.
This person was dressed offensively sexually. If a person is going to sit down across from a Male, married or not, she would be offensive to a spouse or significant other showing deep cleavage or side boob. Young male children would be autonomically responsive to a womans breast. A teenager or preteen would stare or take a few glimpses or worse think about getting a screenshot on their phone. There is an unspoken code of dress for an airplane. That would be mildly casual and mildly sexual. This passenger looked like a prostitute in my eyes.
Regardless of what you say,it was inopropiate to wear that .
I hope she sues and collects big time. What she is wearing would be tolerated at the supermarket, on the street or any number of public places. The airline is a public carrier and not the morality police or entitled to guess whether some passengers would be offended. Maybe her real offense is traveling while being African American. The complainers would not think to try to get her banned or covered up in any other public place. You don’t get to vote on other’s style choices. The airlines have also thrown off orthodox Jews and those who appear to be of Middle Eastern descent because some bigot passenger might be uncomfortable at their presence. The author has solid far left credentials and I am guessing most of the responders are in the same camp. Conservatives are supposed to be the intolerant ones but it is clear that it is the opposite camp that want to tell you what to wear, along with every other life decision. The woman has a nice figure and if she wants to show it off a bit that is her right. The modesty police can suck it up. Their kids will not be scarred for life if rhey see a little cleavage. They see far more on TV. The airlines are in deep financial trouble and continue to harass people over dress codes, political beliefs, masks, ethnicity and almost,antmything they can get bent out of shape over. Maybe after most of them go under an airline with a little respect for their passengers will emerge.
To be clear, the policy is 100% subjective and the person that determined it to be inappropriate was also a female of color. To say it’s race-driven implies a bias toward people of color from a person of color when the rule is really up to her judgement.
Of course that is a dumb outfit to wear on a plane. She knows it we all now it so put on a shirt and your mask and get on with life. There is bigger fish to fry in this country.
“You can barely see them nipples.”
I don’t know how people can defend this woman, this is a trend that people are purposely getting kicked out of planes to get social media attention.
How is this different to passengers that refuse to wear mask?
I am a feminist, nudist, and a proponent of body positivity, too freedom, and breastfeeding. Were I a passenger on the flight, I wouldn’t have been bothered by that top. However, I don’t admire her insistence on maintains her preference of dress.
The airline employee was advocating for the comfort of other passengers when she objected to the top, which clearly would make some passengers uncomfortable. It’s hard to get away from a seat mate we don’t chose. Airplanes are small and there’s not much flexibility. Our behavior affects others. I believe she has the freedom to dress however she wants once she lands. Covering her bosoms during the flight would have been a gift of kindness to other passengers who may not want to see her generous bosom. We have opportunities to contribute to the well-being of others, and this was an opportunity she missed. She viewed her individual preference for a sexy top as more important than the potential needs of strangers on the plane.
We can accommodate others without losing any of our own individuality.
It’s true that we have the freedom *to* wear revealing clothing. Also, others have the freedom *not to* see exposed flesh that makes them uncomfortable. For example, someone sitting next to me on an airplane has the right to look at a porno mag or internet porn. I also have a right *not to* see material nudity when I don’t want to. I would tell the airline steward to reseat me.
The deal is, how do we balance our preferences with that of others? It’s tricky. I “choose my battles.” As a mom who breastfed my kids until age 4, I chose to breastfeed openly in order to embolden other women to breastfeed publicly. Babies and young children deserve the irreplaceable benefits Of breastfeeding. And women deserve to be full participants in society, breastfeeding at a restaurant, grocery store, park bench, at the airport, or on the airplane (I did. It soothes fussy kids on flights! Less crying= a quieter flight, grocery store, or public place.)
Bottom line is, far more important than a woman’s right to wear sexy clothes on an airplane, is a baby’s right to get nourishment and comfort when and where they need it. Many institutions in the US still marginalize/punish women for breastfeeding in public (not in a bathroom stall). Breast is best!
This woman can buy a cardigan like the rest of us, and button it up for the duration of the flight.
If she us traveling on a buddy pass than she should know better because non revenue passangers have a different set of rules. Also the employee can get in trouble for her actions.
I’m trying to understand the timeline here:
1) The plane was boarding
2) The GA determined her attire to be inappropriate
3) She was at the gate for 30 minutes (according to one of her Social Media posts)
4) She then walked away from the GA so she could take a picture in the restroom for Social Media
5) She then returned to the GA to discuss the matter further
6) And then… the Captain comes out of the plane to resolve the situation
Given that WN has a very fast “turn time” (their average is 25 minutes) — I guess they didn’t care that the plane departed late. (I guess the people who needed to make connections were second priority.)
Maybe there is something incorrect in my logic.
In addition, she states that she was KICKED OFF (all caps) , but then goes on to say…
It’s the way I’m being held up at the gate for a policy they (the 4 workers) can not locate…
It’s the way I’ve missed my boarding group…
If she was KICKED OFF (all caps), then she didn’t “miss her boarding group.” She no longer had a “boarding group.” Am I missing something here?
I worked for an international airline and they have their rules as any business. Some outfit should be used only at certain places.
If a woman on a Myrtle Beach was asked to leave and almost went to jail because her bikini was small, it was not reveling why a passenger’s very low cleverage is ok on a flight?
To Kayla,
As I consider this situation, my heart goes out to you, but not for the same reasons as some who have weighed in on this discussion in defense of your attire. I am a black woman also and I do not believe for one second that the position taken by the airline employees had anything whatsoever to do with the color of your skin.
Southwest Airlines is one of the most respectable and decent airlines in existence and has historically held a solid reputation for excellence in all areas of customer service.
As a person who spent over 30 years in the fashion industry, in my opinion, your outfit goes against every sense decency and appropriateness that woman should be striving to maintain.