The truth has a way of surfacing, one way or another.
Another passenger allegedly on the “strollergate” flight has stepped forward to offer a differing narrative of what happened. Most of the blame is placed on the mother, with the insinuation she was overdramatic and gold digging.
Shared by former FA Gailen Lee David, passenger “Eric” had a different recollection of the flight. I’m not going to edit this for spelling and grammar errors, but am going to try to make it more readable.
I was on this flight directly across the isle from the woman filming the video. This is what I observed:
1.) woman gets on the plane pushing a car seat type stroller with one child in it, carrying a second child on her hip and dragging behind a very large folded stroller that was too big for the overhead bin or to go under a seat.
2.) the flight attendant shown in the video approached from the back of the plane and informed her in a calm manner that there was nowhere to store the stroller. The woman immediately escalated the situation and within about 30 seconds was screaming at him at the top of her lungs.
3.) the flight attendant evidently decided she was not fit to be on the flight (in my opinion the correct decision) and started to move her and her children towards the front of the plane.
4.) when they got to the from of the plane the woman decided she was not going any further. The flight attendant picked up the stroller and lifted it over his head to try and move past the woman. As he was doing this she pushed him and the stroller fell a bit and struck her in the face. She began crying loudly and dramatically. Shortly after this is where the video begins.
5.) The first class passenger then inserts himself into the drama with his faux chivalry but clearly has no idea what has transpired in the back of the plane since he was in a window seat in the first class section of the plane and could not have viewed the incident from his seat.
6.) after another 10 minutes or so the woman exits the plane only to be returned about 5 minutes later and taken to her seat. We wait another 30-40 minutes while various flight and ground crew come and go speaking to the woman. After about 40 minutes she deplanes again this time telling all of the passengers, who are now becoming vocal in support of the flight crew, that all she wanted was an apology from the flight attendant. Evidently that’s what the 40 minute delay was all about. Then we waited another 10 minutes for the ground crew to find and remove her luggage from the belly of the plane.
7.) the flight finally leaves and arrives in Dallas an hour or so late. American representatives are waiting at the gate to speak with the first class passenger who made the threats. What I heard was a very apologetic tone coming from two American employees, as if the airline had done something to upset the first class passenger.
8.) when I entered the bag claim area the first class passenger was right in front of me and as soon as he made it through the revolving door there was a camera crew waiting for him on the other side to interview him.
That’s about as factual of an account as I can provide and I realize there may be other parts of this story that I do not know about or did not witness.
From what I saw:
a.) if anyone from American should have been punished it should be the ground crew who somehow letting this woman on board with a full size stroller. The flight attendant was put in a horrible situation by a passenger that most passengers in my immediate area thought seemed unstable. She escalated the situation, not him.
b.) in my opinion, the first class passenger should have been removed. Had the flight been in progress he might very well have been arrested upon landing for threatening a crew member. Additionally, he could not have seen any of the back of the plane antics of the woman based on where he was seated.
c.) I agree the flight attendant may have reacted too harshly in responding to the threatening customer in first class, but his actions with the woman in question were professional throughout the ordeal. I am disappointed American has chosen to punish him.
But this account conflicts from three other passengers who went on the record.
1. Olivia Morgan in NY Times
“He jerked it away from her and almost hit the baby in the head,” Olivia Morgan, the passenger who saw the episode unfold, said in a telephone interview. Ms. Morgan, an executive with an education-related nonprofit, said that after she complained about the woman’s treatment, the attendant shouted at her. “He yells at me with his finger in my face, ‘You stay out of it!’” she said. “Full rage.”
2. Surain Adyanthaya on Facebook (who filmed the incident)
OMG! AA Flight attendant violently took a stroller from a lady with her baby on my flight, hitting her and just missing the baby. Then he tried to fight a passenger who stood up for her. AA591 from SFO to DFW.
3. Tom Watson on Fox
Tom Watson, who provided Tribune Media proof he was on the flight, said he was sitting in the first row behind first class. “The lady and her two children were seated near the back of the plane. She was somehow able to get her stroller on board and back near her seat,” he said. Watson said he’s not sure if the woman tried to put the stroller in the overhead bin. A short time later, a flight attendant approached the woman and told her she cannot have the stroller on the plane.“She refused to let him take it and she was almost to the point of shouting,” he said. The flight attendant then asked for security personnel, which “escalated” the situation, according to Watson. “The flight attendant and the woman started making their way to the front of the plane. They were at the front of the plane near the crew area. The woman was holding on to the stroller and refusing to let go,” he said. Watson said the flight attendant’s tone was “aggressive” and the woman was refusing to let go of the stroller, which escalated the situation. The flight attendant then responded by jerking the stroller from the woman, knocking her in the head and nearly hitting the children, according to Watson. “The flight attendant should not have been so aggressive and should have been more aware of the kids,” he said.
Thoughts on Eric’s Account
Eric makes almost as many spelling and grammar errors as me and Gary Leff combined. The fact that there is no last name and especially that it conflicts so much with the accounts of other passengers makes me deeply skeptical of the account.
But let’s assume he is correct for a moment. It still doesn’t exonerate the AA FA! First, it “proves” she was allowed to board the plane with her stroller. Two, it shows that she was told there wasn’t room for the stroller, not that it wasn’t permitted. Three, it proves the FA became aggressive.
Maybe this woman did just set a trap for the FA. Maybe. But the FA knowingly walked into it. It is the duty of a FA to de-escalate instead of escalate conflict.
CONCLUSION
I can’t find the primary source for “Eric” and I just spent 30 minutes looking. Perhaps one of you has it, but all I see is hundreds of people on Facebook quoting Gailen David’s quote of “Eric”. I’m going to go out on a limb and call this fake news. Just a hunch. We’ll see.
>> “It is the duty of a FA to escalate instead of de-escalate conflict”
You mean the contrary, I hope?
See what I mean about proofreading! Thanks.
Parents and their entitlement behaviour. Ridiculous. Why does a plane full of people have to share in this faux parental outrage. Leave the military strength strollers at home. And preferably the infants too. Political correctness gone mad. The sources you quote as ‘reliable’ (in whos eyes) include an outraged educationalist and another concerned mother. Of course they are going to side with a red flag of outraged motherhood. I think the FA did well. Stay off the plane. Until the kids can behave. Why is it OK that people can inflict their parental choices on a plane full of people. Get a bus.
I concur…
You can’t get a bus when you are flying oversee plus this is not a problem with children misbehaving.
Take you rant somewhere else.
Oh, Simon. Were you hated this much when you were a child? Given that trauma, we can forgive you for being such a dick.
Thanks. I totally agree.
There is no more entitled behavior than insisting other human beings shouldn’t be allowed in public because they might inconvenience you. You certainly don’t have to have children if you don’t want to, but to insist that they should be hidden away until adulthood is the height of selfishness. They aren’t “parental choices” – they’re human beings who sometimes have a need to get from one place to another ,just like you. Airplanes aren’t a romantic restaurant – they’re a way of getting from point A to point B. Parents don’t generally want special treatment – they are just tired of dealing with people like you glaring at their children even if they don’t make a peep. A person can only spend so much time trying not to annoy people who are determined to be annoyed.
FWIW, my children are no longer in need of strollers. But I have had able-bodied adults cut in front of me trying to get on a plane with my child in a carrier along with my husband carrying the car seat (plus our carryons, of course). We had no choice but to block the aisle while he installed the seat into the airplane seat because the airline dispensed with pre-boarding since they were “short on time” and there was nowhere else to go. (Of course, they had plenty of time to pre-board frequent flyers and first class.) Another time, we had a gate-checked stroller left behind on the jetway (another situation where there was no pre-boarding because they were “in a hurry”), which we didn’t get back until at least the next day. While many strollers are huge, there are definitely some which fold up quite small so that they easily fit in an overhead bin. I don’t know if this was one of those, but some reports say it was and that another airline employee said she could take it on board and stow it if there was room. If this is the case, I don’t doubt that she wanted to keep it with her. What is she supposed to do with toddler twins if the airline leaves her stroller behind or sends it down to baggage claim (not that unlikely) instead of having it ready for her when she gets off the plane? For all we know, she deliberately bought a compact-folding stroller knowing she would need it for this trip.
Regardless, the FA’s behavior was unprofessional and inappropriate. And if we would all bother to put ourselves in someone else’s shoes instead of whining about how we might be inconvenienced by the imperfect behavior of a toddler, we wouldn’t have incidents like this in the first place.
There are no reports that the kids were misbehaving . . . But feel free to pull from your imagination. You sounds like a an illiterate child-hater, not someone who knows how to intellectually process the written word.
I wonder!
I wonder if this was truly a stroller and not a combination seat/wheels which would be permitted.
I wonder if the above would be how she was able to board with it.
I wonder how this altercation could get from the rear of the aircraft to the front, all my flights are unpassable because of crowding.
I wonder how this continued once she was injured, was the FA upset because he goofed and injured her?
Just two days ago I was treated abusively by a gate agent at Delta/MIA that chose to harass my family and made threats galore. Delta has up to now not responded but I asked them to keep all records and video. Obviously there are agents that break the law at all airlines. (Yes, I consider violation of civil rights/discrimination towards minorities or causing bodily harm to be breaking the law.)
There are obviously obnoxious, unreasonable passengers that think they can verbally abuse and resist airline staff by virtue of the fact that they bought an airline ticket. No need to wonder — She would have been told when she was at the gate reader that she needed to leave the stroller at the bottom of the jet bridge to be put into the baggage hold. But she ignored that with two children on her hip and decided pulling and dragging it onboard was what she needed/wanted to do?? Obviously the FA’s onboard did not see her actually take it on until she was half way down the airplane aisle and the rest ensued. Airline staff (especially gate agents and flight attendants) see this/ live it on a daily basis. If you’re so overwhelmed with two kids on your hip why are you stupidly attempting to drag this stroller on board as well ?? Then they give her F-class onto her connection to Argentina, miles in her account and a full refund (x3) ??? Now AA is getting sued by her, she has retained Dr. Dao’s lawyer. I guess all their rear end wiping was not enough and it will now bite them in the rear end.
Here’s what I wonder ……. what did YOU say to the Delta gate agent that got them so angry – gate agents don’t just arbitrarily start arguments, abuse, harass while boarding a full airplane. I could probably guarantee you provoked them.
Right, by virtue of being an airline attendant you never have a bad day or an inappropriate action or make a mistake. None of that happens—it’s always a passenger being unreasonable. Always.
Great logic.
The source for this was Gailen David? That alone raises the specter that it’s fake.
See, for instance, https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2012/04/11/american-airlines-sues-flight
Based on my research, yes.
Eric and Tom Watson’s accounts actually support each other and are thorough. The other two have very, very short versions and don’t tell the whole story at all, as if they came in late.
Spelling errors aside, I believe Eric and Tom. They tell an entire story, not just one snippet of one.
Flight attendants aren’t saints and it’s not fair to expect them to be.
@A – Nobody is asking the guy to be a saint, but if a F/A yells “Hit Me!” At a passenger in the conduct of his duties, he has failed at a core level and should not be permitted to fly.
I agree the FA was at fault. And!…..the first class passenger should have been arrested for threatening a flight attendant. Both parties are to blame there.
And the lady with the stroller acted ridiculous too. Typical situation where a single wise person could have prevented this whole situation. But they all acted like morons.
Why should the first class passenger have been arrested?… Correct me if I’m wrong, but that wasn’t a threat. A threat implies intent to do harm… He simply told him what he would’ve done to him had he treated him the same way he treated the female and child… A threat would be “Hey you, I’m going to knock you flat!” That’s intent…
@Tom…I agree the first class passenger should have been ejected from the flight. I travel a lot and I’ve seen people removed for less.
Agreed; if that kind of aggression isn’t tolerated in a passenger what would make it ok in a FA?
He never should have grabbed anything out of her hand. It’s not in their job purview and it’s just escalation, which they are trained and paid to not do.
The psycho, male flight attendant, escalated the situation, by inviting the chivalrous passenger, to strike him. In retrospect, the latter passenger would have been justified in punching that confrontational piece of garbage, FA. Even if he was arrested, he would have presented a valid defense, since the FA was physically abusive to the female passenger, and he was baiting the male passenger, who went to her aid. There was a similar situation, which occurred at Newark Airport, in 2001, whereby a violent gate agent, became physically abusive to a young Mother and her child. The Mother was trying to prevent her small child from running down the ramp. When the Father intervened, the gate agent became physically abusive to him. The Father wound up beating the heck out of the gate agent. He was arrested, but was acquitted of all charges, by a Newark jury. The jury stated that the Father was justified in trying to protect his family. The so-called Captain of this flight cannot be held blameless, either. He stood in the doorway like a statue, and did nothing to deescalate the matter, including asking that big mouth FA, to leave. Captain Chesley Sullenberger would never have tolerated such abuse of authority, by a member of his crew. Why is it that overseas airlines such as Japan Air Lines, Singapore Air Lines, Emirates, SAS, Lufthansa, and Iberia, treat their passengers (including American passengers), with courtesy and respect? However, in the USA, the FA’s and gate attendants have an attitude and a chip on their shoulders, from the minute that they get up in the morning. In fact, they treat the animals, in the cargo compartment more humanely, than they treat the passengers.
If Olivia Morgan is the other blonde lady seen in the video with a younger girl – then her account seems true as the FA shouting at her is seen in the video.
“Eric makes almost as many spelling and grammar errors as ~~me~~ and Gary Leff combined. ”
even though it sounds awkward, “me” should be “I”.
See what I mean?! 😉
Wouldn’t this settlement prevent him from publishing this then? https://www.law360.com/articles/375967/american-airlines-ex-employee-settle-suit-over-info-leaks
I am the retired chief pilot for one of the big 3 airlines. I now do consulting work in the industry, and am a frequent flyer. What happened here obviously should have never occurred. So why did it?
Since the vast majority of airline customers are only interested in paying the lowest fare, the airlines have adjusted to that environment. Smaller planes, smaller seats, less leg room,less on board storage etc. Strollers have to be checked because of storage space.
So the first question becomes how she got passed the agents working the flight. You can argue all you want about what is legal to bring on or not, but if it won’t fit under the seat or in the overhead bin, it can’t stay in the cabin. In any case why not check it? I am pretty sure the aisle was not wide enough to use the stroller during the flight.
So we have a situation where she got past the gate agent and the stroller won’t fit. This leaves the whole mess up to the flight attendant who has no choice, he has to resolve the issue. There is some indication he tried the polite approach and it didn’t work. He carried the stroller to the front to remove it. The woman overreacts so the flight attendant overreacts. Then of course our hero intervenes, Knowing he is being video taped.
I am not saying that the flight attendant reacted appropriately, But we frequently put these people in a position that would task anyone’s patience. As a society, we made a decision years ago that we wanted everybody to be able to fly. So here we are. All of us will just have to get used to it.
Amen to your voice of reason! I am a retired f/a. As you stated, lots of mishandling of the situation. I don’t think anybody should be jumping to conclusions until they know the entire story. The flight attendant may have over reacted but I would be willing to bet the mother was no sweet Mary sunshine. And speaking of over reactions……I thought she’d never stop wailing. As for the super hero passenger, he further aggravated the situation and absolutely should have been removed.
I just recently began my career w/ a large domestic carrier. I started reading up on this and other similar incidents because since being out on the line i have been SHOCKED with how many times customers IGNORE crew instructions, IGNORE printed policies and guidelines, blow past or blow up on our poor gate agents, and when addressed and advised otherwise, pull out a phone to record the scene they cause and BAIT a reaction from the employees. That lady knew damn well she couldn’t bring that stroller on the plane. Policy -regardless of carrier- is printed on the website, prompted to be reread in links of confirmation emails, and if she didnt bother read the regulations and limitations her carry ons were subject to with purchase of that ticket –at the very least- in this case, CREW ADVISED HER. Id be surprised if the gate agent didnt also! She did it anyway. Why? Who knows. But this passive aggressiveness is rampant. I watch as after passing through TSA people think they have free reign to act in anyway that’s advantageous to them, demand anything they believe they are entitled to, and ARGUE THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO or WONT COMPLY. She was still not willing to check the stroller after being brought to the front of the plane, was she? Did she say OH IM SO SORRY i didn’t realize my stroller didnt fit carry on criteria…or hell, Did she say OH I WAS TOLD AT THE GATE IT FIT CARRY ON CRITERIA ! Im so sorry for the mix up! Nope. Argue argue argue. Not excusing the FA who lost his temper. Everyone’s human, we all make mistakes, he made a big one when he allowed his frustration to cloud his judgement- but alll of us are guilty of that and have had to suffer the consequences of it.
My point: instead of blaming the airline, or the probably very professional flight attendant on his probably worst day, remember: she knew by the time she reached the front of the plane that whether by her (im about to very generous here) misunderstanding of policy, misguidance from a gate agent, or just plain unknowingly boarding with that stroller, a mistake had been made, it was not allowed afterall. So, stop arguing!! The audacity, the narcissism….getting her way is more important than the fact shes delaying the flight for everyone else. Getting her way is more important than the rules- they don’t apply to her apparently. In the end, was it worth it? She gets taken off the flight. Shes beyond upset. The other Passengers are delayed and rattled. A probably mostly good employee’s livelihood is at risk or gone. The first class passenger is threatened with legal action. The airline has a lawsuit….and for what? Her stroller. That she more than VERY VERY likely knew not to board with. Come on people, if she is a mother of 2 (moms ARE WONDER WOMAN, its a fact) and she can figure out how to hire an attorney, she ties her own shoes,…she knew! im tired of excusing this kind of behavior! End of rant.
You know, I find it incredibly REMARKABLE how suddenly, everyone is now an “Expert” generally after the fact. I have no problem with people voicing their opinions but what I do have a problem with is, those that try to somehow justify why this or that occurred. I know many of us are merely going off of limited details but regardless of what transpired during the boarding process, all of this lies on the airline. Not the mother. I’ve read where some say she had two children on her hip, which by the way is virtually impossible to do as you shuffle down the aisle of these narrow body jets. I’ve read where she had one child on her hip and another in the stroller while pulling a second stroller behind her. Then I also read too where the stroller was a “FULL SIZE” stroller or one with wheels that converts to a car seat. But again REGARDLESS OF what it was or wasn’t isn’t really the issue here. The issue here ultimately comes down to, how this situation was handled. And by no means, as many would agree, this could’ve been handled a lot better than it was. What happened to their training? Why wasn’t all of their training techniques exhausted during this incident? I mean, are FA trained to casually intervene and if their first, second, and third attempts are successful, immediately become irate? As an employee for the airline, I am aware of how the boarding process is supposed to be done. So therefore, if there was an issue with the passenger and her stroller, it should’ve been addressed at the gate. Let’s just entertain alternate theories for a moment. Say the gate agent did address the stroller issue and tagged the stroller at the gate. But somehow, the passenger ignored leaving the stroller on the bridge, plane-side, and entered the aircraft with it anyway. The forward FA, (you know, the one that’s standing in the gallery greeting everyone boarding), if the contents this passenger boarded with was an “ISSUE” how did she get past this FA? (Error #1) The FA at the rear of the aircraft or the FA working the main cabin should’ve first checked to see if in fact this stroller was the car seat/stroller designed for air travel. I have one, so I’m aware that its allowed. Granted a seat was purchased for that child. But the stroller was specifically designed for this purpose, and also bares the certification that states its approved for air travel. (Error #2) But to then forcefully remove a person from the aircraft should’ve been the last resort. Last time i checked a child is a person, regardless if the child is seated in a car seat or not. Based on the FA actions, that was considered being forcibly removed. Did he not hear that didn’t go so well with United just a week prior? But not only did be physically move this stroller with a child seated in it, but it hit the mother in the face in the process. Many have claimed that the parent overreacted. Hmm… sounds like a matter of opinion there. What one may think was a minor tap or hit, another can certainly think the opposite. Furthermore, maybe it did hurt the mother. So not only Are we able to determine what’s right and what’s wrong, but I guess we’re able to feel what she felt too, huh? Funny… But had it been me, I too would’ve been upset. Maybe not to the point of crying but I too would’ve said something and/or reacted to someone snatching my child away from me. In fact, isn’t there a law against people snatching, taking, removing a child or person? Ugh….I think it’s called….. Ugh….KIDNAPPING. No he didn’t go far, but he did take the child from the parent without her consent. Implied or expressed. But not only did the FA conduct himself in an unprofessional manner, but he also challenged another passenger to hit him. (Error #3) At which point the passenger only stated what he would’ve done had it been him. But only after he was told to stay out of this and you then hit him. I can’t see how that was a threat. The FA told the passenger to hit him. But more importantly…. here’s what i fail to understand time after time…. I can’t understand how crew members are allowed to toss someone off a plane in the name of “Safety Risk”. But then the passenger is rescheduled to fly on another flight. If the passenger presented or exhibited a safety risk, then why are they being booked on another flight? What makes them a safety risk on this flight but not on another? Double edge sword I suppose. I certainly understand that crew members are placed under a lot of stress these days. And I can empathize with them. But it doesn’t negate the fact that their behavior in the sky or on the ground should be distasteful. Remember, they had a choice in which career path that they wanted. No one forced them to go into inflight service, customer service, ect. Many act as if you’re being a pest and making their jobs difficult. But yet, they were the ones who picked that profession. It ceased to amaze, each time.
Am I right in saying you don’t have an email subscription for your site?
I do. It should pop up as you scroll down on a page. I’m also happy to manually add you if you’d like.
“1.) woman gets on the plane pushing a car seat type stroller with one child in it, carrying a second child on her hip and dragging behind a very large folded stroller that was too big for the overhead bin or to go under a seat.”
How is this physically possible? Pushing something + holding something + pulling something? Did she have 3 arms?
I viewed the video several times because I was skeptical about the mothers emotional response. It just doesn’t feel genuine and she seems to be playing to her audience. The flight attendants emotions while inappropriate seemed to be more real. So many factors -unrealistic schedules, fatigue,immaturity,poor management and leadership,miscommunication about behavioral expectations of crew and passengers make flying a miserable experience.
The other accounts aren’t even accurate: “Then he tried to fight a passenger who stood up for her” That’s not even true. The tough guy gets all loud at 0:49 and the attendant tells him to mind his business… which he should. Then he passenger tries to go at him aggressively.
It’s very clear in the video. So… that conflicting opinion doesn’t count obviously since it’s wrong.
To: Captain Roy Liggett (Retired)- The Captain on an aircraft is the law. However, what did the pilot on that aircraft do, during the confrontational phase of that incident? He just stood in the cabin, grinned, and did nothing. If he could not handle a serious situation such as that incident on the ground, what would he have done, if he had a serious mechanical incident in the air? He could have asked the male flight attendant to leave, instead of leaving it to the female flight attendants, to restrain him. Whereas passengers and flight attendants might not respect each other, they certainly would respect the Captain. Yes, flight attendants have a stressful job, but that goes with the territory. As President Harry Truman once stated “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen”. I’ve been flying on commercial airliners for nearly 50 years. I remember a few incidents when I was on the receiving end of some nasty verbal comments, from some obnoxious flight attendants, who had no patience with the passengers. Some of them talk down to passengers like dogs; actually, they would probably speak nicer to a dog, than to some humans. Back in the 1960’s, I remember that flight attendants used to treat passengers like royalty. Then, it was a pleasure to fly, as all passengers dressed up in suits and ties. Today, we see pierced belly buttons on flights, Hell’s Angel types, with massive tatoos, people who don’t believe in using deodorants, etc. In short, to fly today, on any domestic commercial airliner in the USA, is tantamount to riding the New York City subway. On the other hand, if one flies on Japan Air Lines, Singapore Airlines, and Malaysia Airlines, the flight attendants bow to you, and are very courteous. Service is also very good on Quantas, SAS, Lufthansa, Swissair and Iberia. The American flight attendants belong to some powerful labor unions, who will back them to the hilt, right or wrong. Alas, this is the state of flying commercially in the USA, in 2017.
Dear Matthew: You’re prepared to label Eric’s account “fake news” while specifically avoiding the potential bias of the other “witnesses”. But most importantly, Eric’s account is verified by Tom Watson’s account. Tom Watson, meanwhile, is a credible witness whose presence on the plane was verified independently and who has no apparent bias. In other words, you’re a certain type of agenda driven tribalist. Other accounts have also recently emerged that clearly vindicate Eric’s account since your wrote this and since the several comments here. The woman should have been ejected from the flight. One interesting note: take a close look at her kids. They seem remarkably composed for young toddlers in a volatile situation with their mother screaming, yelling, and crying while holding onto them. Now why would this be? Well, because they are used to it of course. They are used to her acting this way, which is why they are desensitized to the behavior. This woman is a self-entitled, narcissistic menace and should not be permitted to fly on any commercial airline.