A man was confronted at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport for taking pictures of a pair of young women (in their 20s or 30s). How would you handle a person taking pictures of you or your loved ones?
Pervert Confronted In Airport For Taking Pictures Of Young Women
One of the women broadcast a confrontational dialogue between her and the man on TikTok.
The woman is very firm and direct, but also (it seems to me) fairly polite, with the exception of one f-bomb. Rather than just walk away, the “busted” man, wearing a wedding ring, actually stopped to chat, then deleted the five pictures off his phone, though he appeared to walk away again when told to go into his deleted folder and permanently delete the pictures.
But an honest question, here. This is the person behind the phone on TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@bailzherb/video/6957875744634703110
Read that comment and her response.
These are some recent pictures she posted:
While I wholly condemn the “she was asking for it” defense as vile and disgusting in the context of sexual abuse, I cannot help but to think that taking pictures might be a bit different? If you’re going to plaster your social media accounts with revealing pictures and in very literal terms, flaunt yourself, do you expect people to avoid taking pictures in a public place? Isn’t that precisely what you are after?
The guy had every legal right to take the pictures and could have just walked away and ignored the women. That he chose to engage with them and then delete the pictures shows the power of shame, even in 2021.
That said, the guy may have had a legal right, but it is both a little desperate and perverted to sneak pictures of young women at an airport (or any public space). In that sense, trying to take the pictures discreetly seems even worse than doing it blatantly.
CONCLUSION
I have no defense for the man at all, but I’m failing to understand why his photos were “violating” of the women (indeed, they were creepy). Was it because he took pictures of them based upon the way they looked or dressed and not because of who they were (compared to paparazzi chasing celebrities)? Is consent necessary even in public places?
In any case, how would you handle someone coming up to you and taking your picture an airport? What if it was your daughter or wife?
I have to say, many people on social media appear to be very full of themselves. :-{
I absolutely agree with you there. Entitled, narcisstic…you name it…
It is very simple (I’ve read this comment made by another woman elsewhere, so I cannot take credit for her excellent point). It is HER body and HER choice to post those pictures online. She has to power to do anything with those pictures including deleting them if she doesn’t like them. Once someone else takes pictures of her body, she loses that power in presenting it the way she desires. It’s very simple – if it’s not your body, don’t take pictures of it without permission. As a man, simply enjoy looking at it for a few seconds and move along like the vast majority of us already do.
Yeah, she’s a complete slut for posting those pictures. She wants attention, just not from a creep at the airport. Beggars can’t be choosers!
Not at all. Just because the woman chooses to post her own photos on the internet doesn’t make his actions any less reprehensible. She is in control of what she shares, not some random man in Phoenix. Any inclination that her own postings make it somehow more fair game to sneak photos of her is rooted in disrespect and sexism.
Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it is moral, and this man acted immorally.
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If you want to take someone’s picture, ask if it’s ok. Very simple. The law doesn’t require it, it’s just the decent thing to do.
If someone takes your picture and you don’t like it, ask politely that they don’t. But remember that in a public place it’s their right, so you can’t demand anything.
All this won’t get you much media attention. If that’s what you’re after, do the exact opposite.
In a public place, pictures are allowed. On the other hand, singling one person for repeated pictures can be harassing. Whether the person posts revealing pictures is not relevant, in my opinion. So if I have to decide, it would be that the photographer cannot be forced to delete pictures but that anything more than 30 seconds of photos of a specific person may be consider too much.
What if Derek Chauvin said “Enough! No more pictures!”?
I once was taking photos at an airport while seated. One young couple was posing for photos but I didn’t know it. The young man put his hat on his girlfriend and was rolling down the brim, both of them laughing. They were doing it for the photos. That was in Spain.
I find some of the comments above interesting. On the one hand, yes, it makes sense that a person should have full control over what they post online, not someone else who takes their picture. On the other hand, think about it. When you post on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook or Twitter, those companies own the rights to your pictures with you…you’re handing it over by going public.
That outfit is unsuitable for air travel. However, her shoes are very good for air travel.
Attire and shoes should be worn to account for a possible evacuation with some fire and sharp metal edges.
If this is the way this woman dresses at an airport, it’s perfectly understandable why an older man would be taking photos to put on a “seen at the airport” website like some do with people of Walmart.
The number 1 principle of conservatives is government doesn’t own your body and shouldn’t be telling you what you can and can not do to it and interfere with your life. This why conservatives who support the police enforcing leftist laws like the war on drugs or seat belt laws are being illogical. It’s under this principle that you own your body. Conservatives believe in property rights and there is no more important piece of property than your own body. From this it is clear it is a conservative principle that you ought to own your copyright to every photo taken of you. You ought to be able to not approve of photos taken of you. Capturing and recording your image or sounds without permission is violating your right to your own body. We see so many videos taken of people who are having private conversations with a person or are in public and their lives are ruined because some cancelist puts the video on social media that is out of context. Obviously public employees are paid handsomely and with fat pensions for being in a public role. Private citizens aren’t. Possibly I understand the argument of allowing photos of anything as long as they are kept private and banning the posting of pictures/videos/recordings on social media/the media/or in any transmissible or viewable form to anyone else.
Whenever I’m bothered by someone like either one of these characters, I brush it off, knowing that one day they will encounter their equally annoying counterpart.
In this case, the obnoxious poseur exhibitionist encountered the perv. There really is such a thing as karma…. I love stories like this.
Stop victim blaming. You did exactly what you said you don’t like to do – “she was asking for it” by questioning … whether she is asking for it. Men need to stop feeling entitled to women’s bodies. Doesn’t matter what types of photos she posts of herself. I thought better from you!
I was asking whether taking pictures in public places falls into a different category.
“What if it was your daughter or wife?” That would never happen because neither dress like that girl when traveling and going through an airport. You dress like that, you want attention and in today’s world people will take pictures if you want to call attention. BTW, is that attire on the photo at the airport even allowed on board? I think I have seen people wearing better than that and not be allowed to board. She is looking for trouble and then will complain later.
I feel sad for that woman…
Imagine her upbringing, her insecurity, her desire to be ‘loved’ & noticed. She feels she needs to walk around half naked all the time…what a sad life for her.
No one ever takes pictures of me when I wear a high cropped top. Most just look away as quickly as possible.
Should we call you Stuarita?
It’s an interesting discussion much like some of the stuff Matt posts. It brings to mind the old expression of a man leering at a girl too long and she says:
“Take a picture! It will last longer!”
And the guy did just that.
I’ll confess, I’ve taken pictures of pretty and/or costumed girls at street fairs and such in exotic locales without their permission but I didn’t publish them. I took them discreetly because I think the act of taking the photos blatantly makes people uncomfortable (even if they don’t mind, they’d feel worried about needing to pose.)
I think the context of the woman having a lot of sexy photos on social media is relevant in that if she was a private person and didn’t like pictures of her around, then I could understand her anger and dismay. The guy could have been just as “creepy” looking at her photos online. So is the issue here then one of “control?” In that case, it’s no longer manners but rather her looking to put “creeps” in their place.
The irony abounds in that after the confrontation, and the man removing the photos from his phone, the woman then put up HIS face (or part of it with a mask) in public certainly without asking for his permission. If he had conceded in the matter, wouldn’t it have been polite and consistent of her to protect his identity?
Amusingly, the way that she confronted the guy and scared him says more about whose the predator, actually. The guy took a photo of a pretty girl. That’s probably all there is to it. But her tone and demeanor suggested she perhaps would try to get him doxxed or get a social media campaign to get him fired from his employer, etc. if he didn’t comply with her demands.
For the record, if any of the girls at the fairs had caught me and politely asked me to delete the photos, I’d have said of course. No big deal. What’s amusing is that I needn’t have been discreet. EVERY time I was “caught” in other countries politely taking the photos, the girls all posed.
This battleaxe? I’d have said, sure, let’s talk to the airport police and ask about the legality of discreetly taking photos of someone in the terminal area. If it was prohibited, I’d have been happy to delete them but if not, I’d have taken a few more out of spite.
I think I was misunderstood. I wasn’t commenting much about social media postings except to say that whether the camera subject posts or doesn’t post online is not relevant to whether the photographer should be allowed to take photos.
In a public setting, photography is permitted. The remedy for privacy is sunglasses and a hat. One could argue that excessive photography of a single person is harassing but not one or two photos.
Years ago at PHX (I’ve lived in AZ several different times) I was waiting for my flight and was standing near the gate and there was a young lady (18 or so, this was a good 15+ years ago) and this scruffy 50 something guy walking around her. He said a few things to her and I was getting ready to call security because it seemed very creepy.
Then he showed a badge and he was an undercover cop and apparently they had found drugs in her checked baggage (yeah, smart) and he said if she came with him he wouldn’t handcuff her at the gate.
I assume he was telling the truth because they left and I had a flight to catch.
I’ll let anyone take pictures of me anytime I’m in a public place. Problem is….nobody wants to.
Oh if I only had her problem!
It’s absolutely the same as taking any picture of another person without consent, including the many “newsworthy” shaming videos taken on planes or airports ( or even those truly ‘innocent’, inadvertent shots with other passengers). The intent may vary, but it’s essentially the same.
Why would ANYONE dress like that for a flight? Swimwear is suitable for the beach. Workout clothing has a purpose. But I struggle to see how anyone with any degree of dignity would wear that at the airport – even if flying Southwest. The social media posts only reinforce the narcissism. And, by the way, she’s disgusting. You couldn’t give me a photo of that.
At least she wasn’t wearing a green swimsuit like that shameless woman in Hawaii in the modest bikini who was asked to leave the beach by a woman who then wore much less. This girl was definitely photoworthy in a rolling your eyes at what she was wearing aboard the plane sort of way.
with or without consent, isn’t this public domain? her social media promotes a public persona there infers she is acting or promoting herself as public and ultimately commodified. yes?
if any attention is good attention, where do you draw the line between what she is giving or selling? do we own our own image if we do actually give it away?
She is totally full of herself and nauseatingly so. Look at me, look at me! Then when someone gives her unwanted attention, it’s just horrible. And yes, I know the “she was asking for it” line of thought is wrong. But if there were ever a case where that argument could be made, this is it.
“The guy had every legal right to take the pictures” – could you please point to the relevant statute that permits this act?
These rights are not governed by prescriptive grants by the government but are legal unless specifically banned.
@ emercycrite: She wanted people to take pictures of her. She was dressed inviting that. And probably she did on purpose to them go to social media and get attention. I feel sorry for her life.
The guy taking the pictures sounds like a creep because he probably is a creep. But was the creep’s photographing in a public place prohibited when it’s an open visual recording in a place where there is no general expectation of privacy from being photographed?
The photographed woman is going around in a public facility with a lot of cameras while the bottom of her breasts are protruding out of the bottom of her short shirt. I doubt that the creep’s camera was the only camera or eyes at the airport that caught her. Surveillance cameras are rather ubiquitous nowadays, and airports aren’t an exception to that.
So public surveillance cameras filming her in public is ok? If so, then on what grounds would the creep’s photographing her in the same place be not ok?
Dressed like a Playboy centerfold and you think no one is going to ogle you ? Secondly why would any guy start snapping pictures – what are you going to do with them, go home and dream about some 18-year-old who wouldn’t look at you twice or give you the time of day? Talk about elementary school.
Yes pervert. But why put yourself out there like that.
World full of narcissistic lovers of themselves.
You have no right to shame someone off their page doing their own thing. She didn’t post other people or take pics without other ppls permission.
And you’ve given them even more attention…why? Who cares about these people?
I’m inserted in the issue of privacy expectations in the social media age.
Great slut shaming here, guys. That includes you, Matthew.
Just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. Yes, that man had a legal right to take the pictures. But she also had a legal right to ask him to delete them. At which point he should have just done it to be a decent human, and it would have been fine.
Do the right thing: ask people before taking their picture. Get people’s consent for things that involve them.
Hi Matthew,
I do enjoy your posts on this kind of stuff because you add some interesting logical and legal analysis based on your education/job history.
With that in mind, why would you call the guy in question perverted? Perhaps one could reasonably argue that the guy is rude and invasive of someone else’s privacy. Even then, I don’t really see how this woman is seeking privacy. She seems to be seeking power, control and ultimately value of how she exposes her body to the world. Fair enough.
Still, rather than being honest about it. She and others, showing their support, turn this guy’s behavior into a question of perversion. She and others are weaponizing the idea of perversion to put this guy in his place.
However, from the dictionary, perversion is “(of a person or their actions) characterized by sexually abnormal and unacceptable practices or tendencies.” What are the sexually abnormal and unacceptable practices or tendencies on display here? Perhaps, taking pictures of someone without his or her permission is not socially acceptable, but that in itself is not perversion, is it?
As a lawyer, I would think this precision would be important to you. It is worrisome to see words thrown around that simply don’t apply as a means to be weaponized against those we don’t agree with.
I would be curious to get your feedback on this (and that of any of your other readers).
Hi Jon, I called him that because the guy probably takes those pictures and goes home and jerks off to them. Why else would he take pictures like that and then act all sheepish when confronted (while wearing a wedding ring)? Not like he was gathering info for his accounting firm or his real estate office or his Sunday sermon. Part of the “perversion” argument buys into certain traditional notions of sexual mores and monogamy, but for me it goes beyond weird and into the realm of sexual deviancy. I’m open to hear what others think about this as well.
Completely disagree. That kind of shaming is a real problem, as you rightly point out, but how can you have privacy in public?
Posting them might be another matter, but if you voluntarily go in to public, how can you reasonably expect to control everyone else’s behavior?
I’m sorry, but public is public, not private.
Hi Matthew, so, are we criticizing/chastising this guy for taking pictures of a person who many men would find sexy, or are we criticizing him for what he might do with said pictures? If you find jerking off to pictures of sexy women to be deviant, then America and the rest of the world is full of deviants and perverts. Furthermore, are the guys who jerk off to this woman’s own Instagram photos, then, by your categorization, also deviant perverts, or are they somehow better because the photos are openly made available for their “enjoyment?”
I am a gay male, so my sexual “habits” and “proclivities” are certainly more deviant (probably only enjoyed by 10% of the male population at most) than this guy’s. So, if I took the same photos to share with friends because I found her look and obvious desire to promote her look comical or interesting, would my behavior be any less or more egregious?
In any case, is it possible you are conflating various issues of morality? The US has such a weird way of dealing with sexuality.
Your questions are reasonable. Perhaps you’ve heard the joke that 95% of guys admit to pulling it and the other 5% are liars. I’m not sure that “perversion” would have any meaning if everyone is one. But I’m criticizing him for sneaking pictures…that to me is worse than just going up to her and taking a picture and certainly worse than utilizing the photos she has made public or the sorts of photos and videos that litter the internet. So in thinking about my position on this, it does come down to this idea of consent and decency. Yet I also recognize that the incongruity of the outrage expressed by someone who so often flaunts her body online when someone takes a picture of her in a public place. Others say that it is her body and she can display it how she wants, but it’s a fine line and I cannot buy her argument that she had a reasonable expectation of privacy after choosing to be so public. It’s another good reminder that behind every photo and video is a person.
When it comes to sex and marriage, my focus is less on the “thou shalt nots” and more about fulfilling this lovely picture of the body being for the spouse. It bothered me that this guy had a wedding ring on his finger, which is probably the primary reason why I called him a pervert. It’s not that married men become impotent to the beauty of men and women around them, but that freedom comes through self-control and that the marriage bed should not be defiled by lustful passion for other people. I get that many marriages are now open and that a wave of polyamory is coming…my views are indeed becoming antiquated.
To answer your other question, I do think taking pictures for other purposes, even ridicule, is a different matter and less egregious.
Hope this helps rather than muddles the situation…
Matthew Klint – I think your initial response to Jon is indicative of a broader societal problem here. “I called him that because the guy probably takes those pictures and goes home and jerks off to them. Why else would he take pictures like that and then act all sheepish when confronted (while wearing a wedding ring)?”
Lacking further info or intel that confirms your bias, demonizing the guy serves no purpose. I always cringe when police use this tactic in association with purported criminal activity – “(The alleged perp)….may have victimized others” / “may have committed similar crimes” / “we feel there may be other victims”…..or other such phraseology that has the clear intent to demonize where there is no evidence of demonization.
Except here, no crime was committed. Now, if the photography took place in a location where privacy were to be expected, I’d feel differently – and such activity would indeed be criminal.
Frankly, I think more attention should be drawn what some might consider hypocrisy on behalf of the young woman (HT to Joe Chivas upthread): https://onlyfans.com/bailzherb/archived
SMH….guess the peeks are okay if someone is willing to pay.
Thanks for your comment. I think my deduction about the guy was logical, but no matter what his purpose, what he did was legally protected and your link to her adults-only website (I did not click through, but can only imagine…) serves to further undermine her defense…
“or other such phraseology that has the clear intent to demonize where there is no evidence of demonization.”
Should read, “or other such phraseology that has the clear intent to demonize where there is no evidence of other crime.”
what he did was perfectly legal; f*** that b****
Standard issue attention seeking slag.
So Derek Chauvin should have made that girl delete the video of him kneeling on George Floyd?
Sorry honey, you’re in public where nothing is private.
I just love/am shocked by the number of comments that might be paraphrased as, “Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean he should be allowed to do it.” (But not shocked by the number of moral judgements passed upon both the woman and the man.)
Wouldn’t it be ironic to be thinking that the culture of taking offense at the behavior of others is finally winding down when it’s only just finishing its pregame warmup? Trump parlayed the backlash against political correctness into a presidency. I wonder who’s waiting in the wings and watching this time.