When I hear folks says that a pilot stole their first class upgrade, I am sympathetic, but I don’t blame the pilot nor would I ever call it stealing.
Pilots Don’t “Steal” Upgrades From Frequent Flyers
With American Airlines now offering confirmed first class seating to pilots who are deadheading (flying pilots to another airport to reposition them so that they can work a flight), we are going to seat a lot more uniformed pilots in first class. We’ve seen this for years now on United Airlines, particularly on flights to or from its flight training center in Denver, since pilots were given the same perk in 2020.
That has led to some adverse reactions from frequent American Airlines flyers:
Today @AmericanAir lost my loyalty. Executive Platinum, requalified EP for the NEXT year, 360k Loyalty Points last 12 months, tried to use my Systemwide upgrades for my ONLY vacation with my spouse this year (DFW to MIA) and they didn't clear even 2 months out, 12 seats available… pic.twitter.com/YgZws6tRfn
— Third Coast Gems (@thirdcoastgems) February 7, 2024
What strikes me in particular is the following:
Then I see TWO PILOTS in the seats meant for my husband and I.
My response:
I also think pilots taking priority over instrument-supported upgrades is a problem and that it should not be so difficult to use systemwide upgrades, but…why not just buy F if it really mattered? I would leave nothing to chance in this era of aggressive upgrade monetization.
— Matthew Klint – Live And Let’s Fly (@LiveandLetsFly) February 7, 2024
The frequent flyer responded that
We spend $1000 cash directly with AA for 2 RT main tickets and exchanged FOUR Systemwide Upgrades 2 months out and I’m an EXP and requalified recently for 2025. No way those Pilots should have had those seats.
Let me stress again I am sympathetic to this flyer. It is understandably aggravating to apply systemwide upgrades months in advance on a domestic route only to see them never clear. That’s because “upgrades” are still dangled as a reward for being elite, but the theory (unlimited space-available upgrades) has never been so far from the reality (first class sells out without any top-tier elites receiving a complimentary upgrade).
And yes, I understand that uniformed pilots taking seats in first class means less upgrades for elites.
But we cannot blame the pilots for taking advantage of a time in which a pilot shortage has made them more valuable…of course they are going to try to get all they can. Wouldn’t you? And while the optics of uniformed personnel in first class may be problematic (that’s another issue for another time), I do not consider it all that different than other companies paying for their employees to be seated in first class.
Pilots don’t “steal” anything. They are entitled to first class seat and if first class is full, are entitled, per contract, to take priority over all other flyers on the upgrade waitlist. Put another way, they sit on top of the waitlist because they are not upgrading at all…they are waitlisted for first class, which is different than trying to upgrade to first class.
Yes, Elite Status Isn’t What It Used To Be
Elite status has lost it luster, particularly on American Airlines. The glory days of easy upgrades are over. For that reason, it is smart to properly evaluate whether chasing elite status makes sense in the first place.
I’d love to see American Airlines clear systemwide upgrades more easily, but those days are over…AA has chosen to aggressively monetize its first class cabin and when you throw in confirmed seating for pilots, there simply is not many upgrades left.
One can still fight the system (complain), but caveat emptor…we should all know what we are getting ourselves into. Chasing status does not make a lot of sense any longer if you do not have flexibility in your travel plans.
Status works for me (with United, not American) only because I can be quite flexible in which flights I take, such that I can position myself for upgrades nearly every trip that I do not outright buy front cabin seats. I often fly in the middle of the week or take the last flight of the night in order to maximize my shots at an upgrade (and even then, I often end up buying it if it appears my upgrade will not clear).
For better or for worse, in 2024 if you want to sit in business or first class, you need to buy a business or first class seat.
CONCLUSION
I do think that airlines sell the promise of an upgrade for big-spending elites and increasingly do not deliver. But as frustrating as it is to remain on the waitlist on one fo the rare trips in which your spouse can accompany you, I would not blame pilots…they are not stealing upgrades. Rather, the revenue management folks are to blame, but also cannot be faulted for creating algorithms that maximize the sale of premium cabin seats.
image: @thirdcoastgems / X
BS, Matthew. WN pilots are fine flying coach…amazing what they can endure when they have no choice. And as to your statement as to the rest of us…. “just pay for F” I would say the same to pilots if they are so uncomfortable. I mean, many are making over $400k a year….they can afford it.
Employees do not come before customers in cases like this. Ever. Period.
The pilots are working, not commuting. They are members of the crew, you are not. The contracts call for first class and they get first class on deadheads.
If you want first class, buy the ticket before first class is full.
Why the hell would a pilot pay for a seat while they are working?
You are confused.
Wait, they are commuting though. That’s the deadhead. They’re not running the flight or part of the crew on this flight. If they’re working on the plane what are they working on?
>The contracts call for first class and they get first class on deadheads.
Yes, that’s what is being taken issue with.
>Why the hell would a pilot pay for a seat while they are working?
They wouldn’t, they’d simply sit in coach.
Bull. Crap
I want my pilot to be comfortable if he’s on his way to work! And YOU should feel the same
I call “Bull” on this reply @ yiannis93117. The paying customer should ALWAYS come first. Business 101. Pilot contract or not, If the pilot needs comfort going to work, give him two seats in the back or a jumpseat.
Maybe this is one reason as to why AA is not making a profit flying people? Back in the day when Bob Crandall ran AA (and they made a profit), I saw him at least 3x give up his F seat for a paying passenger and sit in the back.
Business 102, you can’t have a business without employees, and two pilots are far more valuable than two coach paying customers.
“the pilot needs comfort going to work, give him two seats in the back or a jumpseat.”
good luck getting people to work for you with that attitude, especially with a pilot shortage, The ball is in their court.
Ridiculous – No pilot is going to quit a well paying job because he cant deadhead first class. A passenger however who has spent over $18,000 per year and was promised complimentary upgrades has a much easier time letting go.
Business 103
When there is/are NO guests that generate revenue to AA, can pilot do both? I don’t perhaps pilot can generate revenue, taking First/Business class seat and those bloody greedy contract
I would love to see what happens when AA says “sorry there was a paying customer so we had to leave our pilot at Charlotte. who knows how to fly this 737?” Maybe they’ll over a 100 dollar voucher
@yiannis93117
Why do you want your pilot “comfortable.” Are you implying that by flying in a coach seat he is compromised as to safety? Are you saying that WN pilots are unsafe when deadheading in coach?
I’m so tired and laughing at people who think pilots are some sort of god. They are trained to do a job like all of us. They are nothing special. Get over it. I would like our military to be comfortable, teachers, doctors, nurses, librarians….who is clamoring for them to “be comfortable.”
Agree, Pilots are overpaid button pushers in this day and age. Plug the numbers in and the plane flies itseff. Of course, they are there if there is an issue but that is rare. They could also sit in the cockpit instead of a passenger seat. They should make decent money but the worship is ridciculous and 500,000 or more a year is riduclous. Don’t they have big pensions too?
+1
I am a 2 Million miler with AA, and other than cashing in 900K miles, I will never fly them again. They have done so much to destroy any loyalty I ever had for them. It got to the point where I couldn’t tolerate paying more for less service. I still fly 40 trips a year including 4 flights overseas in business class, just not on AA.
She clearly blames AA for allowing this to happen rather than the pilots. You’ve been groomed Matthew to just accept the downgrades in service from these programs, despite the airlines gushing over the supposed benefits of elite status like the mythical “Complimentary Upgrades” and the barely usable Systemwide Upgrades.
For those of us neck-deep in the frequent flier world, we know how to maximize our chances of scoring the upgrade, its all a game basically. For normal people however who don’t know how to play, this is extremely frustrating because they see all the advertising and claims from the airline on elite perks are falsely advertised.
I’m flying United tonight, and I’m number 6 of 15 for the upgrade for 2 open seats. The app offers me $139 to buy up (not worth it for a non-meal 2 hour flight when I’ve got an Economy Plus seat). If I were to buy it, is that stealing the upgrade?
Pilots (and other airline employees) travel on business like the rest of us. They just happen to have the benefit of traveling on their own company. There isn’t another mechanism for them to have any of the “FF perks.” When working for an airline, I could confirm into exit row at time of booking or into the front end at 24 hours if seats open (or book directly if no inventory in the back at time of booking). I traveled weekly for work. That was my “FF benefit.”
Do people who hate this not like employee discounts as well? Target has a rule that for popular items employees have to let it sit on the sales floor during open hours for X amount of time to give customers a fair shot before they can buy it. Same principle here.. the F seats are available to grab through some mechanism before the pilots get them. And the airline is “paying” for it in that putting the pilot there reduces rest time/additional staffing/hotel costs.
And what if the paid upgrade is $539? You still think the pilot should get that last seat? Because often that is the case.
And as to your Target comparison, the employees still have to pay for the special item. Fine. Make the pilots pay as well.
Yeah, AA could be losing out on $539, if the pilot isn’t in that seat. But they will definitely be losing out on thousands of dollars if the pilot isn’t there for the next flight, and that includes not having enough pilots period, which is the real problem. Did AA (and pretty much every other airline) screw up heir COVID layoffs? Yes. Do the pilots know it? Also, yes. Guess what, your $539 or even your 25k annual spend is not even close to what they lose cancelling flights. The math is not even close to being on your side.
How does the pilot not make his flight? He sits in coach. He will survive.
>Do people who hate this not like employee discounts as well?
No, but I’d take issue with something that allows employees easy or early access to items sold by a company in such limited quantities. If a car dealership has a months long waiting list for a car or a jeweler has a hot watch or a big box store gets in a hot game console and employees get served first while everyone else has to wait, I take issue with that. If someone wants to hand out discounts to employees for items that are readily available, be my guest.
How can you fly enough to make EXP, yet for your one leisure trip of the year, burn SWUs for the 2.5h flight to Miami? I’m sorry their upgrade didn’t clear, but I don’t think the poster is exactly a travel guru. They could have SDC’d on to probably 10 other flights on that route to improve their odds. They could have bought F with miles which they surely have. If they paid 1K months out for Y, what was F, $1,200?
This sounds less about the captains, and more about complaining for the sake of complaining.
Well said, f these losers.
LOL complaining about a SWU miss on a narrowbody 2.5 hr flight? (They could’ve definitely tried for a widebody)
I’d only ever try for (and complain about) a SWU miss on a lie-flat redeye
this person sucks. If you have sooooo many miles…just redeem the damn miles for F seats in the first place. domestic first class on AA a321 /737 plane isnt anything special either you loser.
ohh look at me, i am exec plat, i spend sooo much money, stfu.
these types of people suck.
This isn’t the best story to illustrate it, but the conversation around what airlines are selling for both their frequent flyer benefits and the general travel experience needs to happen.
I cannot think of any other industry in the US that portrays an experience in advertising that is so consistently unfulfilled in reality. The frequent flyer “benefits” simply take already egregious over promises a step further.
With lifetime Gold on UA (& reasonably close to lifetime Platinum) I’ve stopped caring about chasing status. It simply isn’t worth it. The rewards are too few and infrequent. My husband, a 1K was number 46 on the upgrade list for a recent EWR-DFW segment – he couldn’t even get an aisle or window E+ seat with a reservation 2 weeks out. The system is a joke.
Maybe it’s time that airlines are forced to include “fair balance” disclosures like big Pharma ads with details in the percent of fleets who get that service, or that only 5% of their seats actually look like that . . . that would be kind I’d fun to see.
I think it needs to be clarified that only pilots who are deadheading are put at the top of the upgrade list. Deadheading is expensive, so pilots deadheading should be an exception rather than the norm. Not saying it’s right, but it needs to be put in perspective – not all pilots are put at the top of the list. However, since the traveler was flying between two hubs (DFW-MIA), I wonder if that may increase the chances of deadheaders?
Second, while I understand the traveler is upgrade, the traveler needs to dial down the drama. Did the AA flight depart and arrive on time? I see no mention of a delay, so I take it the flight was on time. IMO, that’s the important thing. A 2.5 hour flight is such a little part of the vacation. It sucks the upgrades did not come through. BUT, you got to your destination on time to enjoy the sun or whatever you had planned. Let go and move on. If not having the first-class upgrades was traumatizing, it may be more the traveler’s problem than AA.
Sorry…the start of the second paragraph should say…Second, while I understand the traveler did not receive the upgrade…
It’s complaining for the sake of complaining. It’s like the passenger that I had to go to court and testify because they sued my airline on account of my agents making him pay for bags (and threatening to deny boarding if he didn’t)…. on his $70 a piece plane tickets on his honeymoon. Apparently the humiliation was so great he couldn’t consummate the marriage, so he sued. That was a fun one. Original complainer above re: AA if it meant so much, should have paid the extra whatever to sit up front… and if an EXP then one would assume has the miles or the funds.
Buying 1st class not always a guarantee either
I purchased a 1st class seat. Was sitting in there when I was asked to ID some medicine they found in the checked bag.
Nothing off but then found my carryon making a return to the lobby. Not normal. Found out they took me off to deadhead a pilot.
Despite the contract allowing pilots to sit in the front, the optics are the issue. When I worked for a retailer – employees had to park at the back of the parking lot, including the store manager. The best spots were reserved for paying customers.
I get the argument that the pilot should be comfortable because they have a lot of responsibility when they get to work, but offering them more comfort when the paying passengers have less just isn’t a good look from a customer service standpoint. If comfort is that vital to doing their job, then why isn’t American zipping them around in private jets where they don’t have to deal with TSA, the logistics or boarding, or the unwashed customers?
The optics issue could be solved by having them wear street clothes when deadheading (nobody would know the difference). That solves both issues – they get the seat, and the potential upgraded customer just thinks the front has sold out.
Presumably that status requires a huge amount of flying to achieve, why on earth would anyone who flies that often be precious about an upgrade on a short flight?
Sometimes when you play upgrade roulette, you win. And sometimes you lose. If a seat in the pointy end of the plane is important to you, buy that seat. I never leave it to chance. I only use my PP to upgrade when positive space is available at the time of booking. Otherwise, I just buy the F seat. And I have 1K status on UA, and gold on both DL and AS.
The complaining passenger comes across like a self-entitled prick. If it was so important for him to “impress” his husband with a first class seat to show just how “important” he is to AA, he shouldn’t have taken the chance that his free upgrade wouldn’t clear.
And people like this Karen on steroids seem to forget that the airlines are businesses whose goal is to make money. If they can give you something for “free” that has only a de minimis cost to them (like an upgrade to an unsold F class seat), great. But to expect them to forego revenue or even potential revenue because “do you know who I am” is shortsighted and ignorant.
And I want my pilots to be well-rested for every flight they operate. Coach generally isn’t comfortable. I’ll take a pilot or two in the F cabin over that Karen any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
If it is that important for him to rest, shouldn’t he been resting instead of looking at a screen? Take a nap if that is why you need to be in first class. I don’t fly AA but that to absolutely BS.
So the airline admits coach is uncomforatble. Well done AAL
Pilots should be comfortable and well rested to go to work. They are effectively business travelers when deadheading. They might not even be working for the same airline. Some airlines buy tickets first class on other carriers for deadheading purposes all of the time. Mind your own business or pay for your own upgrade.
Steal? She paid for an economy ticket and her upgrade passes remain in her account until an open flight allows her to enjoy a seat she did not pay for.
As for us pilots, the last thing you want is for us to be tired after being forced to work 14 hour days, commute across the country, all in an effort to keep you safe.
You’re flying on our aircraft. We are here to get you from point A to B safely, and First Class is always available when you pay for it. Anything beyond paid First is a nice benefit to be thankful for.
You should remember all of the benefits you do receive with status, i.e. lounge access, priority boarding, free bags, higher priority on overbooked flights, etc.
Steal? Treat the people who get you where you’re going with a little more respect.
On the UA Island Hopper, i was wondering why there were 4 fewer first class seats available than there should have been. Turned out that seats 1&2 A&B are both blocked off for two relief pilots. Row 1 fully reclines into row 2 so the pilots can sleep/rest from HNL – MAJ. Those two pilots take over from MAJ – GUM.
The problem isn’t the pilots. The problem is the airlines are marketing a perk that they now do not intend to deliver because they would rather sell that upgrade for $139 than reward loyalty with it.
Which devalues the loyalty program two ways: You rarely get upgrades, and even when you do, the perceived value is much less as you got a free $139 upgrade rather than a $500 one.
I’m in F because I paid for it. I’d rather they leave unsold F empty. If they put someone in the unsold seat, I’d much prefer it be a pilot than the d**heads that are complaing pilots are there rather then their entitled @sses.
Matt you idiot.
If this is really about safety then pilots should be guaranteed First Class seats even when commuting to work assignments from home, and not just priority upgrades.
Guess what? It isn’t about safety. It’s about what the work group negotiated.
It’s only stealing when it happens to you…
I have given up on trying to maintain status. When Delta pushed the annual spend on the Skymiles credit card to $250,000 to make Diamond, I knew the jig was up. I continued to make Diamond for a few years, due to some international travel. The last changes, disregarding miles flown and now ticket spend only ($28,000 this year, higher next), I gave up the effort entirely. After flying Delta exclusively for 15 or more years, next week we are on Jet Blue to Florida at a very attractive rate. From now on, the mantra is “want First, buy First.”
All this fuss over a domestic F seat on AA? Really?
I felt stolen from when I purchased a 1st class seat and was settled when a flight attendant asked me to ID some medicine they found in my checked bag. It was my daily heart med and diabetic meds.
While explaining what they were, I saw my carryon returning to the TSA area.
Found out they de-planed me to deadhead a pilot.
Why wear the uniform on the plane? Pack your shirt and jacket so people don’t know you are a pilot. They are just rubbing it in the faces of passengers. Fly incognito if you have to sit in first class. It’s still taking the place of a passenger but at least people won’t get mad.
Let me guess, this crybaby is one of the “loyalty point hunters” who fly a couple times a year and are getting status thru subscriptions and ghosting hotel stays.
Surprised you didn’t do a story on Cambodiagate where hotels were booked full and no one showed up because they were all booked through AA hotels for 100x LP’s per dollar. Basically could buy EXP for less than $2000.
If you want guaranteed First Class seats then buy First Class tickets!
Well then you’d concede that largely undermines any loyalty that supposed loyalty programs are supposed to encourage.
“NO, THE PILOT DID NOT STEAL YOUR FIRST CLASS UPGRADE…”
Yeah that’s called a “strawman”. When people say the pilot is “stealing” their upgrades they aren’t suggesting an actual crime has occurred, so to explain that a crime has occurred doesn’t address the real concern that recent pilot negotiations have allotted so many first class seats to pilots that frequent flyers feel their upgrade chances and consequently the entire value of their frequent flyer programs have been dramatically devalued, to the point they don’t feel inclined to be loyal.
No one meant literal theft as in armed robbery…
Hey Matthew, so I am the person that tweeted the tweet.
I sent you more details/context in a follow up tweet? Along with a genuine response about you and ypur contemporaries.
To be very clear, which unfortunately you were not in your write up, I NEVER said the word “Stole, Steal, Stolen” or any other adjective near that. I also never went after the Pilots beyond pointing out that they were in fact there in the seats. I realize that AA were the ones that agreed to such ridiculous terms from the pilot union, so I “blame” AA. Which is why I said THEY lost MY loyalty.
My tweet was in fact directed at AA, as I started off my tweet with “Today AA lost my loyalty”. Then I added my reasons and context.
I have received lots of hate and vitriolic comments online and in the comment section of both your blog and others that picked up on it.
I can handle that, IF it’s off of a genuine disagreement. But many are taking my commentary out of context, which I don’t believe the title of your article or words help to clear up.
AA should change its Systemwide Upgrade terminology and make very clear what we’re getting and not getting for status.
I still am and will be an avid reader of your work.
Just thing of your going to put words in quotes and use italic, that the person being quoted should have actually spoke/written those words or words similar.
I don’t travel enough to worry about upgrades and such, but the wife and I on occasion treat ourselves to first class and pay for it.. I am glad that my reasoning has not gotten to the point where I feel entitled to bump someone who is working for a free upgrade or get upset if it does not happen.
Well I have read everything here, but I feel the frustration. However, the shortest and most direct path to understanding is that Pilots are in a union and this is the union contract. American doesn’t tell me specifically as an executive platinum that I am guaranteed an upgrade. I hope that I get one but am long past being disappointed.
the pilot is taking their perk and trust me, where they sit in the upgrade system was part of the discussion. Good for them, I guess