A man claims he was unjustly banned by Australian carrier Qantas after his seatmate alleged that he groped her during the flight. He denies the charge and says Qantas never even asked him for his side of the story.
Qantas Bans Man Accused Of Groping And Harassing Seatmate…But He Says He Is Innocent
A 64-year-old Australian man was traveling from London (LHR) to Singapore (SIN) on Qantas’ Fifth Freedom service between the two cities. The alleged incident occurred on November 3, 2023.
His female seatmate, seated in the middle seat, alleges that the man touched her on her inner thighs and again between her arm and breast as the flight took off from London.
After she moved seats, he then shifted from his window seat to the center seat, which was unoccupied, and made “unwarranted conversation” with the female passenger seated on the aisle, also ordering her drinks even though she told him she wanted to go to sleep.
The man claims he was only making small talk with the first woman. They chatted about movies and politics. He denies making any inappropriate remarks or physical contact beyond tapping her as the plane took off with a request to wake him up for the meal service. His legal representative alleges that she made the allegation “to get upgraded on long haul flights.”
He claims he fell asleep after takeoff and when he awoke the woman was gone. He asked a flight attendant if he did something wrong (side note: that itself is telling) and was told:
“You encouraged on the lady’s space and what you did was wrong.”
The female passenger on the aisle was also reseated, then two flight attendants took the seats next to him, remaining there until he was escorted off the plane in Singapore.
The man was held in Singapore for five days (he was not incarcerated, but his passport was held) while police investigated the matter. After the investigation, he was given a warning but no charges were brought against him. He maintains his innocence.
Qantas, after performing an investigation, banned him until November 2030 from all Qantas and JetStar flights.
There Are Two Sides To Every Story
I’m going to hope here that Qantas interviewed enough witnesses to confirm the women’s account before banning this man.
But as far-fetched as his side of the story may be(he admits to talking to her and nudging her), you would think that Qantas would at least talk to him in completing its investigation.
There are two sides to every story, though both sides may not necessarily be given equal weight, especially if the women in the middle seat and aisle seat shared the same recollection.
But false accusations are not unheard of and I consider it dangerous that this man was not even asked for his account of what occurred.
CONCLUSION
A man has been banned from Qantas for seven years as a result of misconduct onboard he claims he did not commit. While Qantas has denied his appeal to reconsider the ban, he claims the carrier never interviewed him after the incident and banned him before Singapore police had even completed their investigation.
Matthew has a past experience of being accused by a FA of being a terrorist and kicked off a flight just for taking pictures of a business class seat.
It is plausible that the man was just too chatty but not to the level of warranting a ban. The interaction with the second woman is perplexing because it seems he merely ordered a drink for her. There are no accusations of him touching her.
If the first woman has a history of getting better seats by complaining, that would really be suspect.
My feeling is that it is more likely than not that the man was behaving badly but that there is also a significant likelihood that he was not.
This is the reason that it would not be good if an airline could single handedly place people on national no fly lists as has been suggested.
It appears that the Singapore police determined that no criminal actions took place and they are not a forgiving organization.
Believe all women!
” he kept ordering her drinks”. This might indicate he was inebriated and unaware of his unwelcome attention to the women. As the drink servers, the flight attendants would be considered witnesses. Often a bit of alcohol can make people a little too familiar…
That said, a ban should come with a full accounting from both sides.
“You encouraged on the lady’s space”…did you mean ‘encroached’?
Something’s wrong here. I’d like to hear this guy’s side of the story. A seven year ban for … what?
As Matt points out, the fact the guy asked the FA’s if he did something wrong means he knows he was hitting on her and then he “ordered drinks” for another woman and she left as well. Certainly him hitting on women that are uncomfortable with him is harassing behavior (look at the guy who harassed Mike Tyson! Love to get the update on THAT when it comes out!) but at the same time, it appears their ban on him was excessive. The footballer who was outright abusive to FA’s got only a year suspension. This guy didn’t get a warning from either women: They just got up and complained about him and he got severely sanctioned.
Looking back, I had many wonderful interactions with seatmates over the years including some single, eligible women but also other ordinary folks and it was quite nice. I never pushed anything though and if they didn’t respond warmly I left them be and that was that.
This ties into an observation that despite the ubiquitous of social media and ability to communicate with thousands of people, we’ve become a more isolated society. My brother met his wife at work but now that probably doesn’t happen as often. It takes significant effort, even if one knows how to use social apps to find fun events to go to, to socialize and interact with people. I personally read about a dozen books on that topic alone. In the old days, people just “winged it” and sometimes they’d say or do something stupid, get called out, and life would go on.
Even now, I remind myself to interact with people more. I want to go for a cup of coffee and leave the gate? I find a fellow passenger who seems friendly and kindly ask him to page me (oops, showing my age!), TEXT me if something is announced.
You said it! Times are so different, where we once didn’t become so socially offended for what I regard as kindness. And that shows my upbringing and age too. And indeed life did go on quite well! I suspect a touch of the spirits may sent this encounter over the top.
I read about this before and was kind of perplexed. One thing I think missing here is that the woman’s husband was seated in the row directly behind.
This is why when I fly and am seated next to a woman I make no eye contact, say nothing, keep to my space, and mind my own business. These days you wonder if even a smile and a good day greeting is considered somehow threatening.
On a side note…an example. I stopped at a Panera a few years ago for a sandwich. All the tables were full but one woman wearing headphones was occupying alone a large table in the middle of the room. I asked if she minded if I take one of the empty seats. Her response? “I’m not comfortable with you encroaching on my space.” And y’all wonder why Jordan Peterson has such a big following.
He shouldn’t have defended himself, he should have attacked the woman. When allegations of sexual assault come up, you deny them and belittle the accuser.
Have you been caught on tape bragging about sexual assault? Have you paid women off with money that was supposed to be used for a political campaign? Who cares?! Doesn’t matter! This man should deny and attack. That’s how you prove your innocence.
So after sexually harassing a woman he started imposing his attentions on another woman but despite two entirely unrelated incidents on one flight we’re supposed to feel sorry for the weasel? He got what he deserved.
The woman was middle aged and large. He said he lightly touched her knee because her back was turned to him and her knee was protruding. He asked her to wake him when it was meal time because he wanted to sleep.
The woman never asked him to switch seats with her husband. When he awoke she was gone. He asked the lady on the aisle seat where the woman next to him had gone and she said to him that he had offended her. He then called cabin crew and asked what had happened. A female flight responded to him and asked a fellow flight crew member to respond to the male passenger. The male flight attendant in a very loud voice said to the man that he had encroached onto the lady’s seating space and “what he did was wrong.” He asked cabin crew to let the lady know if he did anything to upset her that he apologised and had no intention of saying anything to upset her. NOTE: at this time the male passenger had zero idea as to what the woman had told Qantas staff!
The plane was an Airbus 380-800 with 371 seats in economy, 35 in premium economy, 64 flat bed in business and 14 open suites in first class. Economy was full, premium economy was also full and she was upgraded!
The woman and her husband were both seated in middle seats, him behind her – why? Why would a wife not ask someone to switch seats so she can be seated next to her husband? Three men were seated in the three seats directly behind them and no one switched seat.
The man says he never moved into the middle seat as the woman on the aisle claimed.
When the plane landed the man was transferred to Singapore Police and while waiting to be interviewed (just after discussions had begun) he was handed the seven-year no fly ban from a Qantas representative. Note: the investigation was in process! Singapore Police, who held legal jurisdiction for this case and are known for being one of the toughest legal enforces in the world. Singapore Police thoroughly investigated the case (interviewing the woman too) and dismissed it, giving him a warning. If he had indeed done something wrong – right now he would be in a Singaporean prison cell awaiting trial.
The first time the man heard that the woman passenger next to him claimed he touched her on the inner thigh and breast/arm area was a few days ago when Qantas responded to his appeal. This means the first time he found out the details Qantas had on file was on 25 January! The incident took place on 3 November 2023.
A guilty person would keep quiet and not appeal. Let’s hope he refers the case to the Australian aviation ombudsman.
I just banned Quntass until 2030. Oh wait a minute, I have benned the since 2013. Ever since the homosexual Irish CEO was imposed on the airline and systematically destroyed it until he was ultimately fired and told to get the hell out with his multi-multi million dollar payout for fucking up a great airline. So the accused should be thankful he doesn’t have to endure the Woke Quntass any longer, they have done him a favor. No more having to be harassed with bad attituudes with LGBTQ ++++++++ waddling and prancing up and down the aisles.
His management skills (or lack thereof) had nothing to do with him being gay, you hateful homophobe.
Quote from flight attendant “you encouraged on the lady’s space…”
I thought Qantas had a removed all references to gender onboard ??
There are some real sleazy lechers on flights, and the ones I’ve seen in action on flights often seem to be likely to have a history of trying the same thing repeatedly either in their hopes of “getting some” from a newly-met nearby passenger upon the flight being over or in getting off in getting an uninvited feel. And one way such lechers try to test the field or play it is by drinking alcohol themselves while also trying to get the targeted passenger tipsy or more tipsy. Not class acts, and some such acts — which may even appear to some or many others to be polished persons — even have CCR access at LHR for themselves and guests.
“But false accusations are not unheard of and I consider it dangerous that this man was not even asked for his account of what occurred.”
Interesting. Would you still be saying that had this happened to your wife while she was traveling solo?
Yes, I would.
(and I would believe my wife, but I don’t know the woman making the charges here)
Honestly I think a stranger even just asking me to wake them for dinner is a weird imposition. The guy sounds like a creep.