A fat-shaming passenger was escorted off a United flight after complaining bitterly about having to sit between two passengers of size in economy class.
The flight occurred on January 2, 2019 from Las Vegas (LAS) to Newark (EWR). Norma Rodgers, a nurse in New Jersey, and her companion were traveling together, one in the aisle seat and the other in the window seat. When the middle seat passenger saw the two passengers, she began bitterly complaining.
Oh my goodness, I don’t know how I’m going to do this for the next four hours. This is just impossible cause they’re squishing me. Like, friggin’ just unbelievable…
I can’t sit here because they’re both so big on left and right…
At least they’ll keep me warm.
Rodgers, the window seat passenger who took the video below, pressed her flight attendant call button. When a FA stopped by, she stated:
Excuse me, can you find her another seat? Because I will not be verbally abused by this bitch or anybody else.
I will not be verbally abused by anybody. I’m not tolerating it.
The flight attendant asked the middle seat passenger to step out and head to the rear of the plane. As she walked back, a passenger called out:
You should be ashamed of yourself, madam,’ another passenger says calling her out. What you’re doing is so terrible, you should be ashamed of yourself!
Her response is telling.
I’m not politically correct. Why don’t you try and sit between those two big pigs?
The passenger was eventually removed from the flight, though it is not clear if that was by choice or mandate.
Meanwhile, Rodgers posted about it on Facebook:
My Thoughts
I also don’t like how tight seat width has become on many airlines, including all the U.S. carriers. I do have some sympathy for the rude woman…it was a tight fit and it appears the armrests were up. But the way she handled it strikes me a deplorable. To “fat shame” people is degrading and demoralizing, unfit for human dignity. She could not even look either of her seatmates in the eye, instead choosing to throw shade on her phone.
Such behavior brings out the worst in others, like in Rodgers, who called her a “bitch” repeatedly.
If you find yourself in a situation like the disgruntled passenger and feel you cannot possibly get through the flight, I offer you the following hint: get up and discreetly speak to a FA. Don’t bitterly complain and don’t ever take out your aggression on the passengers of size. That doesn’t solve the problem.
CONCLUSION
This is a sad story on so many levels. But the lesson is simple: treat other passengers the way you want to be treated and if you have a problem with your seatmates, gently approach a FA or member of ground staff. The worst thing to do is stir up anger and emotions by attacking people for something that cannot possibly be remedied during the flight.
> Rebuttal: Passengers Of Size To Blame, Not Poor Passenger In Middle
If you don’t fit, buy second seat.
+1
I agree 100%. Not acceptable to purchase a seat that is encroached on either side. That said, she didn’t have to be so rude about it.
I think the airlines should ask for weight of passengers. When one buys a ticket that is for a whole seat, including the “airspace” above that seat. It is totally unfair to be expected being squeezed by either side and/or have no elbow space.
I don’t agree with the verbal “communication” of the woman, but the problem should be solved by the airline.
I agree. Large people past a certain weight limit should be required to buy two seats. Otherwise they are being very selfish.
I agree that the woman handled it just about as poorly as you possibly could…but I can’t get over the fact that the two passengers traveling together picked a window and an aisle seat. They don’t even want to sit next to each other! (And they are in an exit row so it is most likely they deliberately chose their seats). I understand being large is difficult but they made a conscious choice to inconvenience an unsuspecting middle seat passenger rather than sit next to eat other and at least be able to squeeze next to each other. Seems needlessly rude on their part. Not to diminish the complaining woman’s boorish behavior.
A lot of people do this in the hopes that the middle seat will stay empty and they’ll have the whole row to themselves. But this practice often backfires.
They likely chose the window and aisle hoping no one would pick/get put in the middle. I’ve done that before when it looks like a plane is a light load, just for some extra comfort for me and my traveling companion.
Most flights are full. Stop doing this disrespectful tactic.
I’m 6’5″ Adam. Is there some exercise that I can do to reduce my size down to that of a average sized woman? Because that would really be something. In the old days (when economy seats were more ample), I’d have been considered a giant. Nowadays, I’m not all that unusual. And flying coach is hell for me – a hell that I have to do for work.
Yours is squarely a different scenario then what’s presented here. As a 5’8″ and 155 lb guy, I can only empathize with your plight. You’re blessed/cursed with being a big dude naturally. Heck, the only time I’m happy with my slightly-below-average stature and fairly lithe body composition is on an airplane because I do fit in the seats – and the one time I was on a submarine and didn’t have to worry about knocking myself unconscious on the low ceilings.
The passengers in this situation, though, aren’t genetically larger like you; they’re clinically obese by even the most liberal of standards. And I’d argue that’s the crux of the matter. They did not wake up one morning prior to this flight having mysteriously gained 200 pounds; either this is their own doing (most likely) or they’ve a genetic issue that makes them predisposed to being obese (highly unlikely). This isn’t a disability, and while I don’t think they deserve public shaming, it’s definitely their fault that they don’t fit on an airplane and that their size is both outside the norm and has an adverse impact on those around them in the close-quarters of an airplane.
+1
I don’t think they deserved a public body shaming vs they don’t deserve a public body shaming.
Did you also see the size of the salad eater. How does she compare to your “fairly lithe body composition?”
I’m pretty much with you in that no-one comes out of this well. The nurse did call the other woman a bitch which is entirely reprehensible and to my mind at that point she lost any moral high ground she may have had. I’m not a small framed 6’1. I appreciate a little more space on a plane and I usually go for a premium seat or extra legroom. I’m not a hazard in an exit row but I suspect some bigger people would be. I do feel some sympathy for the position the middle seat passenger found herself in, although obviously she could have dealt with it much better. The two larger passengers travelling together were clearly hoping to end up with a free seat by splitting into the aisle and window but that really put whoever ended up in the middle seat in a difficult position. It looks like they didn’t consider whoever might have ended up there much. I don’t blame them for being upset at the middle woman’s unpleasantness (terrible behaviour) but I do think she had a right to complain (middle seat). As another poster commented – middle seat has paid just as much as others on the plane and is entitled to her entire seat! Also I don’t think the nurse helped matters by constantly keeping a video camera (yes I know it’s a phone) trained on middle-seat all that time. I find that aggressive in itself. An unfortunate episode all round.
I thought it was against airline policy to videotape other passengers. Also, if the two larger passengers were traveling together, they should have moved to 2 seats together and given the middle passenger the aisle or window when she arrived.
You nailed it Steve S. Who in their right mind would be happy to squeeze in the middle of these two fat friends! They played the odds and it failed them. No problem, let the stranger take the squeeze… and when she speaks up, just call her a bitch. Imagine 14 hours of this on a trans-Pacific flight… Bad moves all around but “they started it” for sure.
Exactly my thoughts. But the whole PC thing about fat shaming ignores it completely.
If they are a married couple, I bet they don’t even sleep in the same bed as they would probably break it if they did. I’m sure they are aware of their large size and don’t care if it inconveniences anyone else.
Agree, Matthew – the ever tighter seating in economy (where most passengers fly) will lead to more and more nasty confrontations such as this. As a big guy, I can sympathize with both sides. It’s brutal to be crammed in to too small of a space (especially for 4 hours or more!). But using this as an excuse to insult and shame people who hadn’t done anything to her is wrong. It’s not their fault that the seats are too tight – ultimately, it’s the airline’s fault.
By the way, one comment I see far too often is “you should have paid extra for first class!” That’s a truckload of fresh BS – most people cannot afford to spend triple or quadruple on a ticket and most don’t have status. These people actually did and still didn’t merit an upgrade.
At what point is it the passengers’ fault for allowing themselves to be obese and not fit in the seats? I’m not disagreeing with you, per se, but you shift blame for a person’s size to the airline. Using this one specific case, those passengers would have never fit in any seat at any time during which we’ve had commercial aviation. Even back in the PanAm days with larger Economy seats. People love to trot out the whole “seats are shrinking all the time” red herring, but let’s be honest and take note that even in a domestic F seat on that same plane, these specific passengers would have little-to-no room to maneuver.
“By the way, one comment I see far too often is “you should have paid extra for first class!” That’s a truckload of fresh BS – most people cannot afford to spend triple or quadruple on a ticket ”
I know how you feel! I just dropped off a package at UPS and wanted to pay for an under 5 lb (and dimensions) package, and they weighed it and measured it and it was over 5lb or too big, so they charged me 3 times as much as I wanted to pay.
Handled extremely poorly by Middle-Seat-Lady and by the two passengers of size. But let’s not forget the other entity at fault here: airlines. Seat width is one area of concern discussed ad nauseum on travel blogs. Beyond that, though, airlines also need to be held responsible for the impact that passengers have on one another; airlines must be accountable in the event a passenger’s size impedes the comfort and safety of others. Let’s look at some scenarios:
1. Precedent has been set (in the UK, at least) for passengers suffering deep vein thrombosis as a result of being seated next to passengers of size: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/wales/2346319.stm. As someone who’s endured a NRT-HNL flight mashed against the window bulkhead, I can confirm that it’s highly uncomfortable though I was fortunate in that I didn’t develop DVT. This is a very real concern that needs to be addressed, and doesn’t even touch on the threat of DVT for the obese passengers themselves simply by being on an airplane and sedentary for long periods of time.
2. Airlines love to remind pax that FAs are “here primarily for [our] safety.” How well/quickly do we think the larger passengers in this story would be able to evacuate an aircraft in an emergency? How well/quickly would someone seated between these two passengers be able to evacuate? What if Middle-Seat-Lady were actually Window-Seat-Lady, and now has two obese passengers to contend with in an emergency? How many FAs currently flying with the US3 could provide any reasonable assistance to passengers that weigh in excess of 250 pounds in a smoke-filled cabin? Or during a hasty evacuation?
I’m not suggesting airlines install sizing apparatuses akin to carry-on sizers in the gate areas to measure passengers’ girth at boarding, but airlines need to begin implementing discreet, published, non-discriminatory, and enforceable rules to ensure all pax remain safe and reasonably comfortable during the flight
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/wales/2346319.stm
I don’t know where this story begin but I found myself in an identical situation with roughly similar sized individuals flying back to London from Spain.
I tried the discrete route in the forward galley before even sitting however the snarky easyjet FAs would not permit moving to either of the four wholly empty rows directly in front of us cause they’re “upfront seats” that I didn’t pay for (and they said couldn’t be bought on board). They were treating my like I was angling some legroom advantage (Amusingly – at 5’7 with a 29 waist, I’m very compact… so legroom was the least of my worries)
Absolutely terrible judgement on the FAs part because it rather unnecessarily escalated the situation with it boiling over to a full fledged confrontation in the aisle. (“I didn’t not pay for only 60% of a seat – fix this.” And regrettably, it took some rather unfortunate ‘fat shaming’ to get some action). I was fully prepared for deboarding/ police intervention cause I was simply not flying like that for 2.5 hours.
Anyway – crappy circumstance … (and the resolution – the FA moved them to “upfront seats” while making bitchy comments along the lines of “I’ll happily give the classy ones the better seats”).
So long winded way of saying: the perspective we have is from when the camera started rolling… we don’t know how if/how the crew tried deescalating – but my circumstance wouldn’t have look much different if recording started at an opportune moment.
Sorry but if you’re that fat, you should have been compelled to purchase the other seat. Why is it my problem you can’t put down the fork?
Why do you get to decide a fork problem is the reason those two people are fat?
She’s in economy plus…
I don’t think it’s fat shaming but really a shame for all. Rough situation for all involved. What I personally find questionable and troubling is when I am in the exit row next to 400 lb people that clearly would never be able to perform exit row duties, in fact would most likely put the entire plane in danger if a situation demanded the need to use the exit.
Not only in economy plus, but she was in an exit row as well. Maybe she would have preferred a middle in basic economy by the toilet?
One of the “big persons” was the first one to utter an insult (bitch).
She only called them “big”.
They should’ve removed the insulting person instead.
So what happened here is to huge people traveling together purchased the aisle and window seats knowing the person that sat between them would be miserable. That’s pathetic. If the airline knew they were traveling together one of them should have been forced into that middle seat to let them deal with each other, and we’re at me, the first thing I would do is use my entire body weight to force down the armrests. My sympathy lies with the person complaining
I do not see how Matthew can possibly title this “fat shaming” (except as PC clickbait). You and others have pointed out the middle seat passenger had a legitimate grievance; and everyone involved, the airline, the stewardesses, and especially the two obese passengers, conspired to ruin the middle seat passenger’s flight. There is no reason to believe quietly taking this up with the purser would’ve helped.
My 2¢, and it is only a little bit helpful, is to do what I do, always remember to put the armrest down when taking your seat. It does not solve this problem, but it helps.
Is that blonde woman not Sonja Morgan from the Real Housewives of NYC?
I have zero sympathy for the fat slobs. A little shame might encourage them to care more about their health and the strain they are on the public health system. Them choosing an aisle and a window in the same row tells me everything I need to know about them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/wales/2346319.stm
AdamR and Rob..you are so right…. you don’t pay for 50 or 60% of a seat. Furthermore in the event of an evacuation these people become dangerous because they do not move fast enough. You could say that for the elderly but usually somebody can pick them up and take them out. That may sound rude but it is a matter of public safety not to mention the literal safety of people sitting between them who will develop deep vein thrombosis by being crushed for hour after hour.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/wales/2346319.stm
AdamR and Rob..you are so right…. you don’t pay for 50 or 60% of a seat. Furthermore in the event of an evacuation these people become dangerous because they do not move fast enough. You could say that for the elderly but usually somebody can pick them up and take them out. That may sound rude but it is a matter of public safety not to mention the literal safety of people sitting between them who will develop deep vein thrombosis by being crushed for hour after hour. Passengers in the middle need to sue.
Funny thing, the lady in the middle is kind of fat too. I wouldn’t want to be stuck in a seat between 2 people of her size. Nevertheless, it’s kind of sleazy for the 2 ‘victims’ to choose the window and aisle seats.
The man’s armrest is clearly down and visible at the 2:23 mark of the video you posted. Adding false assumptions to the story does not help the situation. He looks like he tried his best to ignore the woman and respect her space.
My husband experienced the same as the poor woman who was purposely placed by those 2 enormous passengers so they wouldn’t have to be in inconvenienced by each other’s size. My husband, in the same sittuation, tried to insist on keeping the armrest down to protect himself. His morbidly obese female neighbor however, forcibly pulled it up and her fat then folded over ONTO HIS LAP!!! A disgusting invasion of his space and personal privacy!
He immediately suumoned the attendent and pointing to her body partially on top of his said, “This will not do”. He was found an alternate seat. The big man sitting in the isle seat could have given the so-called fat-shamer HIS seat out of courtesy (or even consideration?)! But NO, they pretend that THEY are offended. BTW, if the obese woman is a nurse, she should know HOW MUCH OBESE PERSONS ARE COSTING OUR COUNTRY IN THE WAY OF HEALTH CARE!!! We are going broke with the staggering costs of such. I am a bonafide food addict, but have lesrned to manage things by NOT bringing bad food into my home AND being more active. It’s not easy, but one must not be in denial about such addictions AND be a bit smarter than average going about it. There is NO EXCUSE for obesity…instead of buying another car…buy yourself an aggressive weight loss program and get this taken care of, PLEASE! I’ve been in health care for 40 years and am appalled that the rest of us must suffer and pay higher insurance costs due to those such as these people and others (smokers, drinkers, drug abusers, etc, who are actively self-destructing and won’t stop. DON’T EVEN GET ME STARTED!
Americans should stop eating so much and then calling other people bitches for complaining of their size.
Lady in the middle was not the slimmest pencil in the box either 🙂
The airlines companies are the one to blame! Their conditions that they put us are gone to far!!!!! And in the end it’s our fault!!! It’s about time to raise our voice and put new basic standards that better for us!!!
I would have actually removed the window seat passenger.
She was videotaping another passenger, directly, in her face, without her permission. She also straight up threw an insult just because someone was passive-aggressively discussing her on her phone. Plus she actually caused inconvenience to the middle seat passenger and never even thought about apologising, talking it through or, you know, actually offering to switch seats so the middle woman can sit in the aisle or in the window seat. I know I’d do at least that – why would you keep seating like this? To subject someone else to the middle seat, I guess.
Her behaviour is truly disgusting, and I would have called the FA the second she started videotaping my face. The middle seat passenger didn’t do anything wrong, at least initially.
P.S. I thought passengers of size weren’t allowed in the emergency exit rows on most airlines?
Passenger of size?
I don’t think you can blame the airlines for putting in seats that don’t fit 100% of passengers, but they are responsible for managing it better:
I believe Southwest has a policy where a person of size can request the seat next to them. If the airplane isn’t sold out, it’s free. If it is, they pay. That’s reasonable for everybody and avoids this kind of problem.
Airlines sticking the head in the sand in the face of a growing (literally) population is irresponsible…
United does have policy on this:
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/special-needs/extra-seating.html
Essentially, they require the person who is unable to fit in the seat to pay for the additional seat if s/he needs more than one seatbelt extender or cannot fit in the seat. I think they made too restrictive of a policy to the point that they don’t enforce it. Also, based on this policy, if I were a person of size I would probably not want to fly with United.
They do, but I’ve never seen it enforced. But, I’ve never been on a WN flight where it was needed. My parents are “of size” but are self-aware enough and fortunate enough to be able to afford a third seat when they fly in Economy, regardless of the airline. They purchase the ticket as “Extraseat [parent’s last name]” then just explain the situation to the gate agent and the FAs when they board so they’re not forced to give up the empty seat should the flight be oversold. This has been a solid plan that’s worked well for them and they’ve never had an issue.
1. United Airlines clearly has a people of size policy, which clearly they did not enforce. Ms. Rodgers and her companion chose not to follow the policy and purchase the extra seat. United should not have let Ms. Rodgers and her companion board the plane.
2. It appears that Ms. Rodgers and her companion were trying to game the system by taking a middle and window seats in the hope that the middle wouldn’t be taken or that the person in the middle seat would be asked to move. Unfortunately, the flight was full. This should not have been an position hat the middle seat lady was put in.
3. We have no idea what was said before the filming started, but we certainly saw the escalation.
4. The lady in the middle seat should have stayed calm. But she lost it.
Alaska has a great policy for persons of size. Buy a second seat and if the flight is not full they refund the second seat.
The two chubby friends should have purchased three seats between them and would have eventually flown in three for the price of two.
Totally their own selfishness rewarded by “political correctness”
Horrible for the poor passenger stuck in the middle.
I got caught in a similar situation on a 7 hour flight and it was HELL
United and most airlines also have a policy that passengers cannot photograph inside the cabin, particularly photography of other passengers. Rodgers was not only a foul mouth, she was violating the rules. She seems to have some kind of superiority complex.
Being honest is not fat shaming.
Alaska has a policy that allows persons with size problems to get two seats for the price of one provided the flight is not full.
I’m sure that the two friends knew about it.
Only in USA, a country of fatasses, you get this kind of crap. This is such that people get butt hurt for being called fat.
Calling someone a bitch, while deeply uncivil, is not as bad as calling people “big pigs.” The blonde woman totally dehumanized, shamed and traumatized two fellow human beings, two people who had every bit the right to their seats as she did to her’s. They paid for those exact seats. If you don’t like that, complain to the airline, don’t shame the people in those seats.
And blaming fat people for being fat is, itself, an act of fat shaming that most people gleefully indulge in. They love to mock, sneer and hate on fat people, and while some pretend that concerns for the health of fat people are the reason, this is clearly not the case. Studies show that blaming and shaming fat people only makes their health Worse. Obesity is a complex condition with many factors to it, but most people are extremely ignorant of this and show no desire to understand what fat people go through. It’s always “I eat salads” with the implication: why can’t fat people? Even the medical professionals expects the old calories in/energy out stuff to work, so it’s ironic the woman who was fat shamed is a nurse. Doctors and nurses should know that fat people often turn to bariatric surgery because they have tried and failed, many times, to keep off “lost” weight. Just count yourself lucky of you are not fat. However, being normal sized is not an indicator of being a good person, as this rude, coarse blonde woman of much hatred shows. And you may some day be fat. Then you will feel the pain of all the hatred you helped create. And so you should feel it, so you learn. Or maybe you will have some othere medical issue that causes people to make rude remakes and cringe from you. People can be very nasty. That woman used her seat situation to degrade two people. She only made herself look bad. She acted in a Vile way. If that’s what eating salads does to a person, bring on the steak.
Oh come on. These people know they are going to deeply unconvenience people and then hide behind PC talking points to avoid accountabilty. They need to wake up and start taking accountability
I hope the lady sues United. That woman could have died sitting in between those two
I too have used this strategy, aisle and window in the hope that the center is not taken. But the considerate thing to do is if the center seat is indeed taken, which it almost always is these days, the aisle and window people, who are traveling together should politely offer to sit next to each other, so they do not have to talk over the center seat traveler. That is common decency in my opinion, but it seems that there was none here.
+1 Keeping the window and aisle was selfish. I guess they didn’t want to squish each other?
I blame the airlines. I am not a wide person in the hips & my hip bones were jammed in there. The greed of the airlines is horrible. First they charge more for luggage, then the make the seats smaller. What is next? Metal tubes to stack people in like cord wood?
I sympathize with the woman who didn’t want to sit between these two obese passengers. I wouldn’t have been able to fly that way, either. A person who is that large should pay for an extra seat. They are being extremely selfish by forcing other passengers to sit next to them in a cramped position. The selfishness is appalling.
Lets gets this right. The reason the booked the outside seats is because if they sat next to each other it would be uncomfortable due to their size but they didnt care in the slightest that whoever was in the middle would have to suffer yet they get pissed when she kicks off about it. In reality she should have taken it to the flight attendant first. they didnt care about her feelings yet want her to care about theirs
Totally agree Jason, the airline is 100 percent at fault, they knew when the couple checked in they should have purchased the centre seat, and in fact removed them from the plane if they hadn’t of done so. I hope that this matter doesn’t occur again as it should be the airlines duty to Marshall and ensure their own policies are administered.