Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg has indicated support for a federal “no fly list” for unruly passengers. Will the Biden Administration introduce such a list?
Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg: New No Fly List “Should Be On The Table”
Speaking to CNN on Sunday, Buttigieg said, “I think that should be on the table” when asked about the “no fly list,” adding that it is “completely unacceptable to mistreat, abuse, or even disrespect flight crews.” He also noted flight attendants “have been on the frontlines of the pandemic from day one” and aded:
“The FAA stands strongly with flight crews. It’s why you’re seeing some really harsh penalties and fines being proposed.
“There is absolutely no excuse for this kind of treatment of flight crews in the air or any of the essential workers — from bus drivers to air crews who get people to where they need to be.”
Buttigieg’s remarks come after President Joe Biden told recent warned there would be severe consequences for passengers who did not behave onboard:
“If you break the rules, be prepared to pay. And by the way, show some respect. The anger you see on television toward flight attendants and others doing their job is wrong. It’s ugly.”
Delta Air Lines has proposed a new national no-fly-list, to be shared by U.S. airlines, in which unruly passengers would be placed for creating disturbances in-flight. A poorly behaved passengers would be banned from all airlines.
> Read More: Delta Wants To Collude With Other Airlines To Ban “Bad” Passengers
I’m against it for reasons I outline in detail here. I think we need to look no further than the mismanagement and misappropriation of the existing federal No Fly List to understand why this is a bad idea, though there are many other reasons to oppose it.
My solution remains to prosecute immediately those who disturb flights and are kicked off. You want to disturb a flight? Fine, you’re going to get fined and potential jail time for doing so. Hold special night courts to expedite it. If every instance of misbehavior is actually followed through with swift and meaningful consequences, there should be little need to share “naughty” lists because passengers will not be repeat offenders.
But with the Biden Administration seemingly onboard for a new no fly list, I would not rule it out in the months to come, especially if headline-making poor behavior onboard continues.
CONCLUSION
Buttigieg’s willingness to consider a federal “No Fly List” moves this idea from the proposal of one airline CEO to a more mainstream discussion. Look for other CEOs to weigh in this week on a such a list and stay tuned. We all want the poor behavior onboard to stop, but the devil will be in the details of any list meant to ban unruly passengers.
image: CNN screengrab
Agreed. This is a terrible, dangerous idea. Those who assault passengers or crew should be charged with a crime and receive a trial in a court of law where they may offer a defense. Taking away rights from citizens without due process (as all if the no-fly lists do) is something that all Americans should oppose.
This is also an inconsiderate person who took one of the most important jobs in America and then during a crisis took 2 months off to sit at home with adopted (probably bought) kids. Not sure how the opinion of anyone that disrespectful to the American public should have his opinion count. If he knew they would be getting kids he should have declined the position when offered.
As Doug said, charge the individuals for their crime. We all observed how screwed up the No Fly lists were after 9/11. Too many chances for mistakes and biases being used without due process.
If a new parent can’t take a few weeks of parental leave — even or after a few months into the job — and the workplace can’t get by and perform at least up to historical norms, then that would be grounds for criticizing him as a management failure.
I applaud him for showing that family time matters and that institutions should be able to perform even in the absence of a person due to family or medical leave. Whether it’s the top person in a Department or the proverbial entry-level janitor.
There is nothing selfish about taking time off to take care of a young child. It’s a sacrifice, and hopefully it’s one from which his spouse and child have gained. And it’s “useful” experience. How do if an adult of his age can’t manage a young child, then the adult probably has bigger management skill problems than the average adult of a comparable age.
The results from his departments failure are staring everyone of us in the face. And we are paying for it with every retail purchase.
We can argue he wouldn’t have made a difference, which is fair, but the optics are horrible and he mislead the American public by taking off a few months into the job during a major situation in transit.
So either he is the issue or the department is the problem but you argue the department should have still been fine. In the business world someone is punished for a failure this large, usually the leader of the department. In government this guy is praised for putting family first. No wonder we are in the shape we are.
“taking a few months off” of *paternity leave* while his newborn is in the hospital. get a grip.
Two months off for paternity leave is worse than golfing almost every weekend for four years (on the taxpayer’s dime of course!) HOW exactly?
Wow. Didn’t realize that we had Neanderthals on this forum.
“Bought” kids? What a truly repugnant a$$hole you are.
I’m sorry, Doug, but could you tell me where we have a right to fly on a privately owned airline?
The right to come and go as one pleases is fundamental to being a free person. This does not eliminate the right of an airline to refuse to transport you should you violate their contract of carriage, but it does preclude the government from being able to take your freedom without due process (which we are guaranteed under the Constitution).
Oscar Munoz called Dr. Dao both “disruptive” and “belligerent” despite video showing the exact opposite. Will Dr. Dao be placed on the “no fly list”?
We are experiencing the worst transportation supply chain issues since the 1970s and have a transportation infrastructure bill stalled in Congress. And head of Transportation Department takes to air to talk about banning bad people from flights? At best, misdirection play to change the narrative. At worst, suggests he completely doesn’t get it. Either way, hard to see his political career going anywhere after the past couple months. He seemed sincere and intelligent. Oh well. As for the bad people, call the cops and let courts figure it out. Giving authority to flight attendants is likely to make the already horrible service model of US airlines even worse.
Love all the whiners here petrified they might have to show just a tiny bit of civility. You wanna travel like an animal, Greyhound’s always an option.
@Dan. Seriously, that’s your best response to specific questions about how best to enforce existing regulations on crew and passenger safety? Call anyone that disagrees with Team Biden a bunch of whiners. Democratic National Committee needs to up their standards for paid social media manipulators.
No one is saying people shouldn’t be punished for acting out. They deserved to be charged, tried and punished if found guilty. But a no fly list without a conviction is a recipe for disaster. Ask Cat Stevens all about it.
Yep, agree 100% with Dan on this. Bring-on the shared no-fly list.
God forbid you seat next to an actual asshole, and when you bring it up to an FA, the FA deems you both unruly and sent to the no-fly gulag without due process. We’ve already seen people cry wolf before; I don’t think you guys are thinking this through.
“Should be on the table” means it should be up for consideration. Being up for consideration is far short of an an endorsement that it should happen now.
I say this as someone who is very much opposed to blacklisting of people who are otherwise free to move about the country (and perhaps elsewhere too). I was warning about the risk of an expansion of government and industry blacklists to fly and did so back from
when people became widespread fans of doing this kind of stuff to “the others” — primarily Muslims back when this really got ramped up like crazy — after 9/11.
Just say no to fleecing and blacklisting.
If the majority of Americans would finally come around to opposing the TSA and its airline passenger identification requirement, the aviation-related passenger watch and no-fly lists would be much closer to getting defanged and the government (and, hopefully, the industry) would be less easily able to punish free people.
The more people that tell the government to go pound sand over passenger ID demands to fly, the more free the free people will be from the administrative and bureaucratic deprivations of liberty.
@Matthew, you seem to have issues with expecting people to behave and forcing real consequences when they don’t. The shameful thuggish behavior will continue until these fascist goons get the message.
Since you have such low faith in the FAA’s terrorist no-fly list, how about this compromise solution:
Let the accused offenders pick one or the other:
1) A swift adjudication of their case, as you suggest: Highly expedited process to conclude within 30 days of the incident (no exceptions) with the defendant to pay for ALL court costs (which would be substantial to make this move swiftly) AND receive the maximum penalty (maximum fine plus maximum jail time) IF they are found guilty. Defendant goes on the no-fly list immediately but temporarily while the legal proceedings take place, and would be removed if they are acquitted.
…or…
2) An immediate lifetime ban from flying on all airlines (share the list worldwide with any overseas carriers that want it), effective immediately, no exceptions, plus a substantial fine and possible jail time (as deemed appropriate by the DOT per current policy).
If you don’t trust the DOT’s ability to manage the no-fly list, OK, put your fate in the hands of the legal system. Don’t trust that either? Too bad.
Honestly, if there’s a real legal process, done quickly but with all due process, how many of these goons do you think would be acquitted? (Hint: none of them). Have some faith in the rule of law and the legal process. Don’t believe in the rule of law? OK, you never fly on an airline again, ever. Either way, face the consequences.
Stop coddling these thugs, stop making excuses for them, stop enabling them.
Assault and battery are already crimes, as are any number of other offenses unruly passengers might be committing. But no cash bail, amirite? Let’s go, Chesa!
If a conviction results in a no fly list, that is ok with me. However, to allow an airline employee bully to ruin your life for the long term is wrong. On rare occasions, I have come across airline employee bullies. Such bully could see Buttigieg and ban him.
Define “unruly”. Remember when you were taking pictures onboard and a stupid FA had an issue with that? How about you that was “unruly” to the FA and you were placed in the no fly list? Since 9/11, FAs were given way too much power and they use that to make people’s lives miserable if they want to.
Another one of the fine fruits bestowed upon us from 45’s guidance and administration. You can’t get away from it even here! Good grief.
No cash bail, and on the no fly list for life!
People know better but they’ve been unleashed without consequences. Enough is enough. This should have been nipped in the bud. Now’s the time!
This is easy. People are making this discussion way too hard.
1. If you assault an employee or another pax and are charged and convicted as such, it is mandatory jail. No bail.
2. If you assault an employee or another pax and are charged and convicted as such, you will be barred from any USA airport and banned from flying any commercial airline for life.
End of discussion
Totally agree… but only as second tier deterrent. First step is to issue a federally enforced fine equal to the offender’s salary from the prior year. Failure to attempt payments within 3 months will then go towards points #1 or #2. You have to first deplete them from their financial ability to fly for many years before even entertaining the thought of jail time.