Resident pilot 121pilot, a captain for a major U.S. airline, authors a new column on Live and Let’s Fly called Ask Your Captain. His mission: demystify the flight deck and an answer any question you may have on the topic of flying.
Q: We all have difficult co-workers. When one of those co-workers is an FA that comes up to the front with a passenger issue you doubt or disagree with, how do you both have their back as a co-worker and deal with the challenge of a bad/overzealous co-worker that is in the wrong?
A: I’m fortunate that I’ve never been in that position and I can think of only two or three times in my career when a customer has been removed from one of my flights. In none of those cases was their any doubt about the need to remove the customer.
That being said let’s assume that a flight attendant (FA) does come to me with an issue with a customer where they think that customer needs to be removed. My first step is going to be to try and get a picture of what’s going on and why the FA feels this way. Now if it’s something egregious like a customer who is drunk or who physically assaults one of my FAs then that’s easy: they are gone.
But let’s say for example that the customer is a travel blogger who is taking a metric ton of photos and this has the FA uneasy. Then I’m going to talk with the FA and try to understand why they want this customer removed. I’m also likely to speak with the customer personally so that I can make sure I have a full of a picture as possible. At the gate we have agents who are specially trained to deal with customer issues and I’d be getting them involved as well.
In the end if I don’t think that the customer has done anything that merits removal and I don’t believe he or she is going to cause us any trouble in the air then they aren’t going to get removed just because the FA wants them removed. I’ll do everything in my power to get the FA to agree to this because I view it as critically important that they know and believe I have their back. But in the end if the customers conduct and demeanor doesn’t merit removal I’m not going to give in to the FA.
Have a question for the captain? E-mail him at ask121pilot at yahoo dot com and you may see your question appear in a future column!
If a flight attendant comes up to the cockpit with a passenger issue that usually means you are on the ground…the gate agent gets to make the decision..PERIOD end of story. In the air it all depends on whether the passenger is a PHYSICAL threat and we have a 1-4 threat level process to go through. These articles do not really give the general public a good understanding of how these situations should be handled.
Not to speak for 121pilot, but I strongly disagree. It is up to the captain, for s/he is in control of the jet. If a gate agent says a passenger should stay, but a captain is not comfortable, the captain wins. Period.
As a former Captain you must have final authority as to who stays and who goes. Once your airborne the degree of difficulty increases exponentially for me I hated just hated a clunk or other sudden noise out of the ordinary, planes like boats have a certain rhythm break that and its pucker time in the cockpit.
“Does this dress make me look fat?” is the same sort of situation I’d suspect.
Ryan, that’s not how it works. The Captain is the final authority, even on the ground, but he/she makes the decision in conjunction with the specially trained agent and the flight attendant. Everyone gives input; the Captain makes the final decision.
LOL DaninMCI
What does concern me is there is a wide spread sense of challenging authority lines across the board we do need some sense of order.
@ghostrider
Flights attendants are known to abuse their authority by using flight safety as a false pretext to threaten or remove a passenger who complains about poor service or poor treatment received at the hands of the flight attendants. Blind allegiance to authority is dangerous. Stalin would like you. The public has a right to defend its rights. If a flight attendant has a problem, the captain needs to consider whether that flight attendant needs to be removed herself or himself. The captain shouldn’t automatically sided with staff. It’s the same problem we have with police sticking up for their buddies. Haven’t we learned anything?
Captain is never going to disagree with an attendant. Side with a passenger over someone who is potentially going to serve him food or drink?
One significant part of this discussion is that contrary to many other co-worker situations, AFAIK Captains and Flight Attendants do NOT work together on an ongoing basis thus it’s impossible for either to know who might be a “bad/overzealous co-worker”.
Ryan at my airline at least I absolutely remain the final authority. As I noted we have customer service agents trained in this and on the gate they would definitely be involved. But in the end I’m the Captain and I’m in command. Period.
That being said in 22 years in the job as I noted it’s come up only a couple of times and none of those have been close calls.
NO! The pilots are syitti8ng in the cockpit with a reinforced door. The FA has to be in the cabin with the pax. Pilots, are trained to fly…not trained to deal with paxs. I would love 121Pilot to speak with me. He has is one of the dumbest airline employees ever…and that is all he is!
121Pilot, use your name…you pathetic arrogant excuse for a pilot! My airline, you are an employee just like the guys who load baggage, just like FA’s who serve….cut the BS. I have been in the industry looking than you. I am shocked that Ryan allowed you to write an article.
Sorry not Ryan but Matthew, seeing your article 121Pilot is just the most disgusting thing I have read in a long time!
BTW `121Pilot as a top F1 driver said pilots are just bus drivers in the air!
You are a real arrogant asshole
Clive – it sounds like you wanted to be a pilot but didn’t make the cut. You have a bit too much hostility for this segment.
Jackson – Flight Attendants do not always ‘abuse their authority’. Many times passengers ‘sense of entitlement’ is to blame. Blanket statements will get you no where.
The Captain has the final authority, always.
Keep in mind, no one wants to do all the paperwork involved in having a passenger removed, either.
The entire crew actually wants to work together- as a crew- to ensure everyone has a safe and enjoyable flight. While on the ground, there are specially trained agents that work with the Captain and Flight Attendants to reach the best decision for all. This might involve removing the passenger. It also might involve having a chat with the passenger in the jetway. There are people who actually over react when told they need to do something they don’t want to do or haven’t paid for. Once the situation is explained to them without an airplane full of butt-in-skies and rubber neckers listening in, the attitude changes. For example, you did not pay for First Class or the exit row, so you cannot sit there without paying for it. For others, they do not understand that their 2 year old is required to sit in their own seat, not on their lap. You don’t drive a car with your 2 year old loose. Why do you try this on the plane? Someone else may think that their roller board suitcase is perfectly fine between their knees instead of in the overhead or in the belly. Yes, First Class gets certain amenities that Coach does not. Tough. In life, you get what you pay for. All of these situations are real. They happen every flight. Compliance with Crew Member instructions is a Federal Air Regulation. Non compliance is where people get the boot. If you won’t listen to the Flight Attendant for something as basic as sitting in the seat you paid for, what are you going to do in a real emergency? I am not willing to find out. If you truly think the world revolves around you- fly private, not commercial. We will miss you, but not the chaos you bring onboard. The few times I have witnessed a passenger being removed, the rest of the passengers clapped.
I flyhigh….no I never wanted to be a pilot…a bloody boring job except possibly at a very few times. I at one time raced cars…so go shove your stupid comment way up your a88. Yes the captain has final authority even when they crash the fucking plane.
You must be a captain, whose head is buried in your co-pilots lap