I pose an etiquette question: is it okay to eat with your shirt off if staying at a fancy resort? When is shirtless hotel dining reasonable, if ever?
Shirtless Dining At Fancy Hotel Restaurant?
A reader sent me the following picture she snapped this week at the Andaz Scottsdale:
She explained, “This was in the full-service restaurant, not the pool bar. Americans seem to get money before learning class.” She’s European and I thought that was an interesting and not-so-unreasonable observation.
In theory, I agree with her and would never be caught eating at a nice hotel restaurant with my shirt off. On the other hand, I probably would not have even given it a second thought if I saw this dude. These days, it seems that anything goes in the USA and I’ve more or less become immune to what might have traditionally offended sensibilities. Compare that to, say, the Hyatt Regency Mainz where I will not wear workout gear or even casual clothes down to breakfast: I put on my clothes for the day before eating. But Europe and Arizona are literally a world apart.
Then again, I wear shoes and socks to the beach so I’m very odd in that respect. The only place you’ll catch me with my shirt off is in the steam room or sauna. And I do periodically wear workout clothes to breakfast in the USA…is that really all that much worse than showing up to breakfast with your shirt off?
Finally, I’m not really interested in a debate here over whether women should be allowed to go topless if men are…that’s a whole different discussion. For purposes of this discussion, let’s limit it to men.
CONCLUSION
The question is straightforward: is it appropriate etiquette to eat with your shirt off at a fancy resort hotel or does the classic adage, “No shirt, no shoes, no service!” apply? I find myself rather apathetic in approaching this issue.
I don’t know … maybe this picture was taken during happy hour ??? or mid afternoon snack. However I would appreciate if he wore a shirt. Who I am to judge, I’m someone who wears yoga pants to hotel breakfasts or on planes 🙂
I’m told it was taken during breakfast at about 10:30 am.
I’m interested in what kind of top the woman next to him is wearing. From what little I can see it may be the bikini top to a swimsuit. Would that be equally inappropriate? Are her thongs inappropriate in a full service restaurant – does one have cause to complaint about being able to see someone’s toes at breakfast? Is the complainer gender-focused?
I would prefer not to see a topless man or topless woman at breakfast.
Breakfast in bed before actual breakfast only
Come on even the misinformation spreader “viatri” would do a double combo Moderna and Pfizer Covid vaccine for that hunk of man meat
You got that sweet camel toe going on?
Based on the dude’s hotness, it is A-okay with me!
A-OK with me too Connor!
That would be three….
I think it’s fine. It’s an outdoorsy place, and he’s outside. If he were inside I would have a problem with it, but it’s not. It’s outside, and I probably wouldnt think twice,
Plus he’s hot.
Plus, Theo James’s character on the White Lotus did it at the Four Seasons Taormina, in the fancy restaurant, outside. So if he can do it so can this random guy.
LOL. I was thinking the same thing about White Lotus! I’m going to miss Jennifer Coolidge in season three!
Mathew! thought you didn’t have a tv in your house …… lol. how do you know about White Lotus?
I don’t, but I binge-watched on SQ! What a fascinating two seasons.
Don’t be surprised if Mike White brings Coolidge back from the dead for Season 3 of White Lotus. It is set in Thailand, and addresses spirituality and death, and White already has Natasha Rothwell and Connie Britton returning, so I would not be surprised if Coolidge returns in some capacity.
I saw that Natasha Rothwell is coming back but did not know Connie Britton was.
I’d love to see the Pattons come back with the Spillers and Sullivans or Greg try to spend Tanya’s money in Thailand and be killed by prostitute’s pimp!
I wouldn’t do it but like you I also wouldn’t think twice about it.
Also, definitely not local. Those who live in Arizona wear sun shirts at the pool and don’t mess around with the desert sun.
Yes – what’ I’m wearing (or what someone else is wearing) should have no affect on someone else’s dining experience. Mind your own business and enjoy your food. 🙂
That’s not really how society works. What we do affects the environment to which other people are subject, which is why manners and mores and dress codes exist.
I’m not interested in sitting next to a sweaty shirtless dude on a plane. Nor do I want to at breakfast in a restaurant, inside or out. I agree, classless and also rather absurd the hotel did not ask him to put a shirt on.
I agree. There’s a time and place and in public when people are eating is not it.
“I’m not really interested in a debate here over whether women should be allowed to go topless if men are…that’s a whole different discussion. For purposes of this discussion, let’s limit it to men.”
Maybe provide definitions from biology of men and women then we can go from there.
And what do prim, proper Europeans think about some busybody tourist surreptitiously photographing random people in an outdoor area of a sun-baked resort and sharing the photo with bloggers in the hopes that the photo will be published for shaming purposes?
One would hope that a supposedly reputable blogger such as Matthew would rise above the impulse to publish photos of people without their consent for the sole purpose of expressing some ridiculous sense of moral superiority, but – hmmm, how to phrase it? – these days, it seems that anything goes in the USA and I’ve more or less become immune to what might have traditionally offended sensibilities.
I don’t express any sense of moral superiority over the gentleman. Let’s make that clear.
Did you get his consent to publish the photo beforehand? Let’s make that clear.
Restaurant is public…
Perhaps, how did you confirm the location?
It’s slimy either way. I wouldn’t want some blogger posting a picture of me in shoes and socks in the sand with the caption “Clueless Loser Wears Shoes to Beach.”
Brutus is right.
Someone who takes a picture of a random person, then sends it to a blogger with “notes”, and then publishes it?
Neither one of you have any claim on having “class”.
You just hem and haw about how properly you dress, even at the beach, and humble brag about you’re such an odd duck in the wasteland that is America.
For your correspondent’s sake I hope the Andaz has smelling salts and fainting couches for their sensitive European guests who have somehow missed the acres of fat and blubber exposed by obese Europeans at resorts, parks and beaches on their own continent.
LOL. Humble brag? I’m downright crazy to never take my socks off!
Seems like he was looking for attention. He’s probably happy to be photographed.
I doubt the thought entered his mind. He was on vacation and probably just was relaxing. I highly doubt he was hoping something like this would happen.
I’ll be sure to find you at the next resort while you’re eating and slide my sweaty bare chest next to you and extend my bare feet in your face. Ya know, it’s ok, I’m relaxing.
I mean, he’s not extending himself into anybody else’s personal space, which is what you are proposing to do. There’s a difference.
Plus, I dont eat shirtless.
And I would never invade anybody else’s personal space on purpose (though that’s what you intend to do). There’s a difference.
There you go….”I don’t eat shirtless” Why is that? Because you have decorum. And there are basic rules to dining that should be implied and understood by anyone with any semblance of class….put on a shirt in a restaurant.
+1 to Stuart
There are many things I view as inappropriate and I find offensive. Historically I would include this. But I’ve come to learn I have very poor judgment in these matters.
I try to let things go now as long as the offense is not in my personal space. I no longer consider eye view as personal space as I can choose to look away.
Your namesake gospel writer addressed this in chapter 7:1-2. I’ve got too many things in my life that I don’t want scrutinized.
A great way to think about it, Fathiss!
No issue. And if I looked like that with my shirt off, I’d be shirtless all the time!
No its not. Its also mostly “americans’ that do that.
Same kind of people that will ballcaps indoors.
america is garbage and deserved 9/11
Yikes. Don’t let your treason show.
When I was in Thailand one day I had a conversation with a Frenchman who was blasting the USA and its role in the world.
I thought of reminding him of Normandy and WW2 but decided that was before our time and not that relevant. Instead I told him, “America is like a lawyer. Everyone hates them until they need them.”
But there is nothing you can say to the haters. That’s what they do.
america is the cause for all the problems in the world. ukraine conflict is also becaue of the usa.
Way to superficially generalize, Chad.
Keep going buddy, people are ignoring your trolling, you may get someone to bite eventually.
What nonsense… have you ever been to a beach restaurant in Mallorca, Turkey or Italy? Germans are all about being relaxed and rarely wear shirts while dining poolside or beachside al fresco.
This was clearly in the dining room patio of the hotel. Not beachside or at the pool as you cite your comparison.
“She explained, “This was in the full-service restaurant, not the pool bar. Americans seem to get money before learning class.” She’s European and I thought that was an interesting and not-so-unreasonable observation.”
Yep, one of your readers for sure. Hates Americans and eager to shame randos on the internet with their photograph without consent!
I know this person. She doesn’t hate Americans. She does not care for rude ones, though.
The whole consent thing. Wow. You too? It’s a public place. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy. It’s not like this was the locker room.
There’s a difference between taking a photo in public and other people happened to be in the shot, and taking a direct photo of someone in public and posting on the internet how bad that person is. No, it’s not illegal, but it’s very scummy. Sometimes funny, but still scummy.
It seems that most are defending him, though. He’d probably get a kick out of this. I know I would.
That guy in the pic in particular? Maybe, probably. I wouldn’t claim to know what he thinks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
+1
for Jan
“one of your readers for sure. Hates Americans and eager to shame randos on the internet”
Aaron is everywhere
Gurl, I must really live rent free inside your mind lol
Like many others, this isn’t something I would do, but there are many ways in which people act, dress, etc that is not for me and I am sure vice versa. The larger issue is when people judge an entire country/culture based on a few individuals who aren’t to their taste. I can 100% state as fact that wherever country this European is from has individuals who act in ways they wouldn’t want themselves to be judged on. They themselves may act in ways other people from their country would not want to be judged. I think it’s rude to be a judgemental human and sneak of photo of someone for the purpose of shaming them. It doesn’t appears this individual is being loud, abusive to staff, etc. The guy could be the nicest human you ever want to meet. Maybe the individual who sent you this photo should direct more of their attention inwards.
then again…if you are Christian – Matthew 18 from the Bible
Those who do not become like this little child (of the 1st century I’ll add), you will NEVER enter the Kingdom of Heaven. blah blah blah
And what do children do….they often run around with their shirts and more off…without a care in the world. You might have done it before.
Of the billions who have died in the past…how many were like little children – of the 1st century? Without shame of our own human body.
Where did all those billions go if they didn’t go to “heaven?”
Spoiler: reincarNATION is true for everyone….nobody is in “heaven.” We are living in hell — though depending on your circumstances – suffering in “hell” is relative. Ask all those migrants crossing the border to America. Ask those who all have “mental health” problems – say — what causes that?
Hell is getting hotter…and about to get more so (WW3). Enjoy the heat…until the COOL ONE comes….and no, it won’t be anyone you think it might be. hahahahahah
We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
I’m not sure that is what Jesus meant in Matthew 18.
If this was a poolside area, sure, why not. However, if it’s within the hotel itself, then NO. If Andaz Scottsdale allows this and you’re offended, I would bring it up to management and leave.
I’d like to eat him for breakfast!
He’s outdoors at a resort. seems fine to me
I wonder what the photographer looks like. Many are just jealous that others look good with a shirt off.
Good to know that alphas are coming back into mainstream attraction. About time. Not my type but his hat is cool
While I agree that in general, “outdoors at a resort” might be acceptable, this is clearly the restaurant at Andaz and the patio area where people are dining.
Last spring I considered the Andaz Scottsdale for my spring break trip but ultimately decided on the JW Marriott Scottsdale Camelback. (definitely recommended) This somewhat validates my decision.
No shoes no shirt no service! If he were eating lunch in a pool lounger while enjoying some pool time it would be ok but not in a general restaurant setting.
Inside a resturant a shirt and shoes seem to be required everywhere? This guy is outside on what appears to be a beautiful day so no shirt seems fine .
So if dining outside at Cafe am Hof at The Park Hyatt in Vienna on a beautiful day you would think it perfectly acceptable for a man to be shirtless?
I’ve been to this restaurant. It is not at the pool but it overlooks the pool, and is accessed without having to go inside or through the lobby. In the middle of the day, I don’t find it inappropriate at all. In the evening, when the pool closes and it becomes a bit more formal, your reader may have a point. Still, this is a resort property
Looks like the girl sitting on the other side of him is in her bathing suit as well.
The eye candy is bare skin sweating on a restaurant chair. Minimally a towel should be between the furniture and skin
More offensive is that they apparently didn’t remove their hats to eat.
Based on the resort map, this outdoor area overlooks the pool.
Do they close the pool area during dining hours to make sure none of the guests that choose to eat outside have to see someone in a bathing suit?
If I cannot focus on enjoying a delicious breakfast and coffee 20 feet from a pool because someone near me doesn’t have a shirt on, I have bigger issues.
What the hell, why not weigh in here?
I would 100% do this, and have, in desert resorts like Scottsdale and Palm Springs. Also in South Florida, esp the Keys. And in Rio, where I have seen local Brazilians grocery shopping in Speedos. I have also walked through the lobbies shirtless. It’s a resort, not the Lanesborough in London.
And this is 100% not an American thing, I have seen plenty of shirtless Europeans al fresco in Greece.
If the property has a dress code for a specific venue, of course I will respect it. But in these very informal outdoor settings in hot sunny climates – where, by the way, this dude is sitting in the shade – I don’t see the big deal.
Scottsdale is a mini LA. Pool party opens early and some of those people spill down to the main restaurant. You know what you’re getting staying there. No different than tromping thru Bellagio in the afternoon in a bathrobe and sandals on way to pool
Bravo and I agree. It’s not an American thing; it is a resort; its is poolside. what in the world is the big deal?
He is dressed appropriately to me. The lady behind him is dressed appropriately to me. I don’t have a problem when women in Europe go topless at the beach. Much ado about nothing.
It depends on the state and local health codes. That would never be allowed in a NM restaurant because regulations say restaurants must insist on shoes and shirt. (Shorts ok.)
I’m fine with that. Who wants to sit in a chair after someone’s torso has been sweating on it?
Creeped Google earth and this restaurant is right next to the pool and he’s looking in that direction. Maybe he’s taking the opportunity to eat while mom is in the pool with the kids? Without any context none of us know. I say let the guy live his life. It’s an outdoor patio restaurant by a pool.
In theory I agree, but as others have pointed out:
A) this is Scottsdale, not East Hampton. Spring Break 24/7 with an optional side of golf is the expectation. For a European audience, the Scottsdale vibe is more Ibiza then a Megeve.
B) As I remember, the restaurant at the Andaz is right next to the pool, so its at least a grey area for me.
I wouldn’t have walked through the lobby shirtless to get there myself, but in this case I’m more charitable to him than I’d be at most other hotels.
I’m kind of 50/50 on this one. On the one hand, it is outdoors and during the day time, but on the other hand, it’s their main dining area and not a pool side cafe.
I do agree, he should have at least put a towel over the cushion at least.
I am in the “put a shirt on” camp.
My German father never went shirtless unless at the beach, pool or in the privacy of his own backyard, where he always put on a shirt if visitors stopped by. My husband is the same way, shirt off only for water activities.
To all commenting that the restaurant is part of the pool, I have stayed there a few times over the years and can assure you that this is not the case. The restaurant, including the patio area, are entered next to the lobby and is indoors (the bar is there as well). You are then taken from a hostess area to either the indoor or patio dining area. It is in no way part of the pool. There IS a separate cafe that is poolside with a bar as well that is serving lunch and snacks. The hotel, while calling itself a resort, is actually more popular with meeting groups as there are unique large meeting spaces throughout. Most at breakfast during the week are there for conferences at the property.
Suart, it didn’t meet my expectations as a resort. But I wish to express the laugh fest fun on your earlier comments today. You are the best, but please keep your feet out of the space of others. And that applies to everyone
Stuart, that side of the patio literally overlooks the pool. Whether it’s “part of the pool” or not is petty semantics. Get over it. Enjoy the view. I’m sure you like shirtless men.
I’m sure you do like it in fact. Thanks for confirming what you’re really after, lol.
With that, many restaurants at resorts “overlook” the pool. But that does not equate to a pool atmosphere. It’s a restaurant. A dining area. Not a gawking center for guys who love looking at other shirtless men as you seem to promote. Sorry. I prefer my eggs scrambled and my bacon crisp. Not someone next to me sweating as they bake their pecs. Call me old fashioned, I don’t care. But I prefer a $500 a right room to be without sweat marks on my dining room cushion. And a basic respect for others.
In the immortal words of someone once long ago, “get a room.” Or, in this case, “go eat at the pool.”
As far as I’m concerned this stud can take his shirt off and anything else if he sits by me !
The choice of attire, or lack thereof as the case may be, here is fine; although wouldn’t be my choice.
The holier-than-thou person taking pictures of a couple innocuously enjoying their breakfast on vacation though…Karen is too kind a word.
He is ridiculously hot. He’s wearing too much if you ask me.
You mentioned it in closing, but I’m actually surprised the hotel didn’t have a policy in place requiring a shirt in THAT particular dining area, as opposed to the pool area, which of course wouldn’t require it. I’ve seen a handful of hotels that require this. Maybe I missed something and the hotel does have the policy?
Sadly, at the end of the day though, it shouldn’t take the hotel to have a policy reminding people of good manners and social norms, but I guess those are subjective nowadays.
As mentioned above, eating shirtless outside in beach/pool locations is quite common in Greece, so definitely does happen in Europe. Probably wouldn’t do it myself, but I am baffled as to why anyone would find it rude or offensive – personally I am far more annoyed by the politicians, captains of industry etc who turn up to work or even public functions wearing trainers.
The privacy point is also very valid. One or both of the people in the photo may be married and/or have reasons to avoid others learning of their whereabouts. Europeans take these things quite seriously, I think that your friend wasn’t expecting that you would publish the photo.
I just wonder what the shirtless guy would have done if someone pulled his axillary hair.
Not wearing a shirt to dine is a breach of good etiquette.
Taking a creep-shot of a stranger without their knowledge is a breach of privacy and good manners.
It’s filthy rich for your “source” to talk about “Americans getting money before class”, whilst also being classless enough to act like a paparazzo perving on a target. How tacky.
And you — did you think to get the consent of the individuals in this image before using it to shame them?
What a gross article.
Thanks for voicing your opinion.
How is this shaming? You fully agree that it is not proper etiquette. The choice he made is fully within his control. Shaming to me is calling out someone for “something” that is not in their control.
Is it tacky to take these photographs? Sure, to an extent. But at what point do we give free passes to other’s tackiness in being unchecked? A tackiness you fully acknowledge yourself.
It’s a public restaurant, not a private terrace at a villa. If someone chooses to make poor decisions in public, well, that is on them. It’s not on anyone else that might photograph them and call out those decisions. If the person is unable to accept the consequences of their choice, which is clearly not in line with which basic manners dictate, that is also on them and a fact they should consider the next time.
I think context is key. The shirtless doesn’t really look out of place.
No more or less inappropriate than taking pictures of strangers sitting next to you in the restaurant… Then again some people have a pathological inability to mind their own business.
I’ve had to sit next to many women who have mistakenly come under the assumption of underwear being outerwear and being several clothing sizes smaller than their measurements dictate. I find it an unpleasant sight. But I focus on my own meal and company or newspaper.
Only an American would do that, or mostly. Depends on where and when. I go to Cabo a lot and you can tell the Mexicams from the Americans. I once wore long pants and nice shoes, sort of a dressy outfit, and they never thought I was American. They thought I was a classy Mexican.
He’s got a great body, so why not show it. Same goes for you Matt!! It was probably a hot day too.
If you’re that attractive, I think it is absolutely acceptable to be shirtless. Nay, it should be mandatory.