Southwest has announced its biggest change in its 57-year history, but now that it’s changed this last bastion of its legacy, it will have to keep changing its model. Southwest Airlines is dead.
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Southwest Begins Charging, Assigning Seats
This week, Southwest Airlines changed one of its calling cards since its inception – it will begin assigning seats in January of 2025. The carrier began to show signs of changing its longstanding open seating policy. By allowing open seating whereby passengers simply board in a numbered order and sit anywhere they like and including checked bags in the fare, Southwest was able to turn aircraft faster as passengers spent less time looking for overhead bin space.
The expedited boarding process allowed Southwest incredibly short turn around times, putting aircraft back in the quicker. Airplanes only make money when they are flying so this was a key strategy that helped the world’s first low cost carrier get more flights out of the same aircraft, staff, and gates.
As ancillary revenue became the modus operandi in the domestic US market, Southwest began selling early check-in advantages to help jump to the front of the line. A-List, and A-List Preferred elites have preferential boarding options. In recent months, A1-15 boarding positions have been priced as high as $150, far higher than peer carriers charge to secure extra legroom seats like exit rows.
The carrier will begin assigning seats and building a revenue model for preferred seats in the new year.
What It Was, What It Is
Southwest started as a quirky upstart Texas carrier who found themselves not competing against other airlines but against driving. It operated between key markets in the state, Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio. Once known for flight attendants in hot pants and passing out whole bottles of booze to lure business travelers to their aircraft, the 1990s changed the carrier immensely.
As it expanded to markets farther afield, the Southwest Effect would lower prices on all carriers by nearly 25% on average and grow nonstop flight routes from airfields that typically only saw connecting service. It was cheap, too. Sales would often bring short haul flights down to $29, $39, and $49 one-way. Its irreverent approach kept employees happy and loyal, and customers were devoted too.
But the days of yore are long gone. Southwest was once the cheapest carrier is often more expensive than legacy carriers who have looked past Southwest to compete instead with Ultra Low Cost Carriers and introduced Basic Economy fares to stand toe-to-toe. Instead of flying to alternative airports instead of huge hubs, the airline has embraced Houston Bush Intercontinental, Chicago O’Hare, Washinton Reagan National, and Miami.
Its once happy labor groups have taken the carrier to task for new contracts in recent years. A few years ago it added Hawaii, several destinations internationally throughout the Caribbean, and acquired Air Trans Airways, a discount hub and spoke carrier based in Atlanta.
The all-Boeing 737 fleet which kept costs low by utilizing seat commonality has even come up for debate, the company stating it would consider Airbus products given Boeing production delays on new 737-MAX aircraft.
This isn’t the quirky airline it once was, it’s now a behemoth.
Why Southwest Will Have To Keep Changing Into A Legacy Carrier
Southwest has held the crown as the largest domestic carrier in the United States which also makes it one of the largest (and most valuable in the world.) But half a decade ago, the carrier began running out of places to grow. They flew into any airport in the US that could support at least its smallest aircraft, a 737-700 with about 125 passenger capacity. It added Hawaii, perhaps reluctantly after avoiding it for 50 years. While Canada is still left off the route map, there are few places to grow geographically.
The carrier then began expanding its revenue sources, charging more and more for ancillary products. It became so important to secure an early boarding pass that most flyers added it to their checkout process, leaving some customers late into the first half of the boarding process despite paying to get on as soon as possible. As noted before, even early boarding saw rising prices well above what some Southwest roundtrips used to sell for.
But that’s not enough either.
In order to stay competitive, Southwest will have to find more ways to grow the carrier. They can’t do it by airfare, they are already well above the competition. They can’t grow geographically without changing the fleet. Ancillary revenue under its former model hit its limitations both in what it could charge for and how much it could charge. Now it’s time to take something that was a differentiator and amalgamate to the rest of the market.
Without a first class section, there’s just two more areas for Southwest to grow after this: food and drink, and checked luggage. In every other way, the carrier has now become a legacy airline and worse, it’s an expensive one.
The Death Of Southwest Airlines
The heart and soul of Southwest Airlines is dying away. It’s taken the last decade to see it truly turn from the original point-to-point LCC to a huge network carrier. As yet another differentiator dies away, so too does the uniqueness of Southwest that was its advantage. Other carriers in the US have a homogenized fleet (Spirit, Alaska, JetBlue, for example.) Other carriers have made their hay in offering nonstop options from smaller airports.
Some travelers loved avoiding Chicago O’Hare sprawling across five huge terminals in favor for a quick connection in a revived Chicago Midway. But the airline had to compete against flag carriers for business traffic.
With each of these changes Southwest became just like every other carrier. Seating assignments and soon charging for those seats are a significant change to the airline’s model making it nearly indistinguishable from others.
The airline has been incredibly profitable for decades, it won’t go out of business. But it was able to charge higher prices even as other carriers cut theirs because of these inclusions. Passengers are annoyed by the nickel and diming but love a low fare. These unique differences were reasons to choose Southwest, respecting their customer was reason enough. But with the latest cash grab, the last of its soul has been wiped away, and make no mistake, that was the leading reason flyers chose Southwest.
When every carrier is the same (yes, bags still fly free on Southwest – but they won’t forever), there’s only two ways to compete: schedule, and price.
Conclusion
Southwest spent decades building its moat, insulating itself from the competition and standing out. That’s no more and while they won’t go out of business, the Southwest Airlines that sparked a low cost resolution is gone. When consumers realize they have the same experience as on the larger carriers but could do so for a cheaper price flying them instead of Southwest, the company will face its biggest challenge yet.
What do you think?
Southwest will eventually be acquired by United, with JetBlue to be acquired by AA, and DL to acquire Alaska.
I doubt United would want Southwest two different cultures and United already flies to most of the places Southwest does.
Do you think Kamala would allow that to happen?
No sane authority would allow that to happen! The industry in the USA is already overly concentrated, compared to Europe, at least.
WN has one-third my home airport’s market and offers maybe 9 cities nonstop that the legacy 3 don’t fly nonstop (plus MDW, DAL, and HOU as alternatives to the legacy 3 nonstops to those cities). I will now consider a nonstop with a reserved seat with them over a connection on others. Previously, it was never considered by me. Unfortunately, too many of their nonstops would require me to leave on the first plane out or arrivecat my destination close to 10pm—no in between.
Southwest will lose me, after 35+ years, when they implement assigned-paid seating. The cry baby liberals have killed this once great airline with their whining about the boarding and seating policies that made Southwest the once greatest airline in the U.S. Liberals screw up everything they touch.
Great one less AH onboard. Bye bye
As a liberal I agree. There are three things I care about:
1. Single-Payer Healthcare
2. Defunding the Police
3. Assigned seats on Southwest.
Biden, Obama, Clinton, and Carter failed us. Harris takes the reins and we get our assigned seats! Can we be compelled to take 22B? YES WE CAN!
Don’t forget infrastructure!
Jokes on you, we liberals don’t fly, we walk. Couldn’t care a fig about Southwest seating policy. But be sure and tighten up your tinfoil hat.
He’s a regular wing nut / confirmation bias “commenter” that can’t stay on topic. I’m guessing he will be gone soon after he’s found guilty & jailed for his Jan 6th insurrection charges.
Your comment illustrates a high level of both mental health issues and delusion. How about blaming others for everything you have failed at in your life. Oh, you do that already. How about you stay with the subject and back your nonsensical with reasoning and fact? You are what is wrong. You are the problem. Please go away and do not come back!
Exactly, and these libs will be the first to sit in your assigned seat and tell you to go sit in theirs way in back in middle of two you know whats. I’ll remove them by force if I have to, gladly. Going to be even more conflicts on Southwest.
There are four terminals at O’Hare, Kyle. Terminal 4 does not exist. There’s 1, 2, 3, and 5, the Terminal From Hell, where WN has planted its flag.
I came here to say exactly this. Well done.
Of course, my mistake – silly me distinctly remembering being in Terminal 5 (M) but forgetting to count the existing number of terminals today. I’ll get it updated. Something I knew, but forgot. I appreciate the note.
They need to go back to hot pants. (On the females only)
Once again, terrible article by Kyle Stewart. I would honestly consider Tim Dunn a more reliable source at this rate, and I do.
1) That’s called marketing. Not everyone paid those low fares.
2) Those airfares of the past does not take into account inflation.
3) As per DoT fare data, the average SWA airfare is below their competitors by and not a tiny margin either. Data doesn’t lie.
4) No proof that those employees are suddenly unhappy.
5) Southwest has long paid their employees better than competitors, this isn’t a new phenomenon. There are many other aspects of a contract not related to pay.
6) Southwest has previously talked about acquiring Airbus planes, but have opted against it. This isn’t the end of the world if they do eventually go for it.
7) The blog post suggests that Hawaii is some desperate last resort, which is ridiculous. The idea that an airline should grow in all directions, all at once instantly, is unrealistic. I mean, it took time for WN to get there in Denver but they got there.
8) Again, this post tells us that somehow Southwest is charging sky high airfares and fees, despite a huge decline in financial performance. This makes no sense.
9) To further elaborate on point 8, that “fact” is asinine is very untrue. Their casm is still lower than the legacies, and again DoT fare data shows them punching below competitors.
10) First class isn’t actually that big of a money maker and for proof you just need to look at the trend in fares. They’ve been cut significantly over the past 2 decades, squeezing out FF upgrades in the process. There’s a reason why these planes are still mostly economy.
11) BoB doesn’t make that much money as a former Alaska Airlines CEO even told us, as it’s more of an opportunityfor the FAs to interact with pax. I’ve seen employees claim that it isn’t profitable at all.
12) Uniqueness? Are you kidding me? This is a for profit business, not a celebrity or comic book character. Airlines largely imitate each other and that’s for a reason – it works. There isn’t much room for innovation or being special in this industry regardless.
13) As Elliott Investment Management and Southwest themselves told us, this “uniqueness” isn’t working for them, it’s not an edge.
14) No proof or even any coherent argument is presented in regards to checked bag fees arriving. They are not coming.
15) Cash grab? BS. If anything it’s the opposite. Many flyers avoid Southwest due to their archaic boarding process. They leave a lot of money on the table too with the lack of extra legroom seating too.
16) As the reputable Brett Snyder of CrankyFlier has told us time and time again, Revenue Management is getting better and better at their jobs. RM are bot going idiotically charge airfares so goddamn high that they end up losing money.
17) Herb Kelleher himself said that businesses should change with the times. Businesses that don’t adapt, die.
I could have written a lot more for this comment too.
Maybe I should start lying to confirm my priors. I would call this confirmation bias, but there was no research taken whatsoever.
Amen.. Thanks for saving me the effort.
Did Kyle miss the part where Southwest said its own research showed 80% of its current customers prefer assigned seats? And 86% of those who make the choice to fly someone else vs Southwest list that as a primary reason?
@A220HubandSpoke – You’ve rebutted many things here, but disagreement doesn’t make it true. I’ll answer them all.
1) That’s called marketing. Not everyone paid those low fares.
• Sure, but they are consistently higher than peers. The latest study I could find comes from Travel and Leisure placing Southwest second-most expensive behind just Delta. https://www.travelandleisure.com/cheapest-airlines-in-the-u-s-most-expensive-airlines-8659256
2) Those airfares of the past does not take into account inflation.
• You’re hung up on the fact that they started as a discount carrier and those same prices can’t be available today. My point is that they started as a quirky discount airline and are now a legacy carrier with legacy carrier problems. The old Southwest is dead.
3) As per DoT fare data, the average SWA airfare is below their competitors by and not a tiny margin either. Data doesn’t lie.
• I listed a source above, feel free to include yours and we can compare. That said, I don’t check a bag on every single flight and most domestic travelers don’t, even when it’s free. Many of the comparisons I have seen give Southwest a $60 each-way credit as that’s what the two checked bags are worth so a Southwest flight at $350 roundtrip would be considered cheaper than a $235 roundtrip without included bags. That’s part of the fallacy.
4) No proof that those employees are suddenly unhappy.
• How about these ones picketing and speaking out? https://www.thestreet.com/travel/southwest-airlines-has-another-huge-worker-problem-beyond-its-pilots
5) Southwest has long paid their employees better than competitors, this isn’t a new phenomenon. There are many other aspects of a contract not related to pay.
• See above.
6) Southwest has previously talked about acquiring Airbus planes, but have opted against it. This isn’t the end of the world if they do eventually go for it.
• I’d agree it’s not the end of the world, it’s just another example of how Southwest is not really Southwest any more.
7) The blog post suggests that Hawaii is some desperate last resort, which is ridiculous. The idea that an airline should grow in all directions, all at once instantly, is unrealistic. I mean, it took time for WN to get there in Denver but they got there.
• It doesn’t suggest that at all. The airline was openly reluctant about flying to the airlines citing a number of concerns including an inability to program red-eyes (they just loaded some in for the first time in the company’s history this week) and concerns about fare. The point was that they don’t have many more airports they can go to if they choose not to go to Canada, and given the size of the aircraft and frequency with which they enter new markets. The issue is that they can’t grow geographically so they have to find other ways… like charging for select seats.
8) Again, this post tells us that somehow Southwest is charging sky high airfares and fees, despite a huge decline in financial performance. This makes no sense.
• As you said before, the data doesn’t lie. Maybe their high prices but low financial performance is why they have activist investors. If you look at the change from flying secondary airports and focusing on leisure markets to expanding and focusing on business routes including major airports, it makes more sense. They have all of the problems of legacy carriers (which look similar financially) because they are, more or less, now a legacy carrier.
9) To further elaborate on point 8, that “fact” is asinine is very untrue. Their casm is still lower than the legacies, and again DoT fare data shows them punching below competitors.
• Feel free to submit a link to substantiate your claim.
10) First class isn’t actually that big of a money maker and for proof you just need to look at the trend in fares. They’ve been cut significantly over the past 2 decades, squeezing out FF upgrades in the process. There’s a reason why these planes are still mostly economy.
• Again, an incredibly important caveat has been left out of your analysis. Yes, first class has been shrinking in the US over the last decade (though several carriers are adding seats back now) but that is solely for the domestic market. When we look at long haul international, those same legacy carriers are far more premium than “mostly economy.” Take United Airlines 767-300ER and 777-200 fleet whereby they are 50% or more premium economy or higher, in the case of the 777-200 161 seats compared to just 108 economy seats. And long haul premium is where many of these carriers make their hay. United Airlines and Delta are particularly good at this, American remains bad at everything. If you board a long haul aircraft (sometimes used domestically as well and certainly to Hawaii) and you head to coach you will notice that in many cases, economy starts well after the wing. It’s also important to note that if we only count seats, economy might still rule the day, but if we compare square footage dedicated to those cabins – and real estate on an airplane is the most expensive anywhere in the world by far – you’ll notice that legacy carriers devote a substantial footprint to First, Business, and Premium Economy classes, all of which are above what Southwest offers. They do this because this is where they make all of the money.
I can already hear you typing up a furious response “BUT WE AREN’T COMAPRING APPLES TO APPLES, SOUTHWEST DOESN’T HAVE LONG HAUL AIRCRAFT OR FLY TO DISTANT INTERNATIONAL DESTINATIONS!”
Here’s my point. When Southwest changes everything about itself that made it the un-carrier, and aligns itself with legacy carriers then all of the metrics change. That’s why they can no longer resist charging for premium seats, they have to keep up with the Jones’s.
11) BoB doesn’t make that much money as a former Alaska Airlines CEO even told us, as it’s more of an opportunityfor the FAs to interact with pax. I’ve seen employees claim that it isn’t profitable at all.
• Let’s ask a discount carrier or even American Airlines if that’s the case. Oddly enough, an industry study in 2021 found that Alaska was so pleased with its buy-on-board product it was expanding it. Hmmmm.
“One airline that definitely does see the benefit of buy-onboard and pre-order for food and beverages is Alaska Airlines that last year added satellite wi-fi to its inflight offer for a flat rate of $8 as it also announced an upgraded pre-order f&b offer, which it called “the most comprehensive food and beverage program” of any US carrier[6]. The new pre-order menu is available two weeks before take-off with last orders 20 hours before departure.” https://insights.worldtravelcateringexpo.com/2023/02/21/future-of-buy-onboard/
12) Uniqueness? Are you kidding me? This is a for profit business, not a celebrity or comic book character. Airlines largely imitate each other and that’s for a reason – it works. There isn’t much room for innovation or being special in this industry regardless.
• In the first response you spoke about marketing, now every for-profit business is simply a commodity? Apple has distinct uniqueness to its product line, how is that going? Maybe we should ask Michael Dell? I’d counter that everything about Southwest used to be innovative and unique from seating, to boarding, to being one of the only carriers to allow you to easily store your credit online for future use and a lack of change fees. If uniqueness and market differentiation don’t matter, why would Southwest continue to lose revenue on baggage fees?
13) As Elliott Investment Management and Southwest themselves told us, this “uniqueness” isn’t working for them, it’s not an edge.
• It’s not working because Southwest began dismantling it years ago to continue to grow once it could no longer do so geographically.
14) No proof or even any coherent argument is presented in regards to checked bag fees arriving. They are not coming.
• They never used to charge for boarding position, seating assignment, changing a flight in the same-day, but now they charge for all of those things. One would have said just two years ago, Southwest will never charge for seat assignments, yet here we are. The only evidence we have is their consistent behavior and the limited remaining channels for which to charge customers consistent with competitors. And don’t tell me that the reason they won’t charge for bags ever is because it makes them unique after you just said that didn’t matter.
15) Cash grab? BS. If anything it’s the opposite. Many flyers avoid Southwest due to their archaic boarding process. They leave a lot of money on the table too with the lack of extra legroom seating too.
• Management agrees, they were leaving a lot of money on the table without charging for preferred and extra legroom seats like at the bulkhead and in exit rows.
16) As the reputable Brett Snyder of CrankyFlier has told us time and time again, Revenue Management is getting better and better at their jobs. RM are bot going idiotically charge airfares so goddamn high that they end up losing money.
• I respect Brett an awful lot. But it’s not a direct line comparison. I also never said Southwest was going to lose money. In fact, I outlined that it has been one of the most consistently profitable airlines in the history, not only of the United States but in the world. I said the soul of the company is dying, the identity is dying, not the business.
17) Herb Kelleher himself said that businesses should change with the times. Businesses that don’t adapt, die.
• Absolutely, but you can also change so much that you’re the same as everyone else. And that’s what happened.
I could have written a lot more for this comment too.
• Shame you didn’t decide to include a single source.
Maybe I should start lying to confirm my priors. I would call this confirmation bias, but there was no research taken whatsoever.
• I have shown my research, maybe you should show yours.
As noted in your link
“Delta was followed by Southwest Airlines, which came in as the second most expensive on the list. That was due, in part, to the airline’s optional upgraded fare categories that come with perks like seat selection.”
So the uniqueness of SWA makes them look worse in this regard.
As for the unions, they have absolutely picketed before and since directly mentioning my sources somehow isn’t enough, here you go. Here’s one from 2008 (https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us/southwest-airlines-union-pickets-over-wages-idUSTRE4AJ6ZJ/) and here’s one from 2008 (https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2014/12/23/southwest-airlines-workers-to-picket-at-sky-harbor-tuesday/20801573/)
Your source links to what the unions said about the company’s direction. They said they want a better run company, with proper leadership. The employees don’t want to work for a terrible, unreliable airline, they want a company to be proud of, just like the rest of us.
Southwest has openly said in the past they can afford higher pay bc their employees make up for it in other ways, like for example picking up trash in between flights.
Nice try baiting me on widebodies though. No two markets are the same so airlines need to choose how to deal with that.
Again, source does not properly back up your claim and here is mine since you want it so badly (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/ceo-tilden-hands-off-a-transformed-alaska-airlines-as-it-emerges-from-the-covid-crisis/). It’s worth noting that US Airways didn’t add wifi, which is almost always an extra fee, until they saw pax booking away from it bc US Airways didn’t have it. Gary Leff mentions this every now and again on his blog (https://viewfromthewing.com/why-a-quality-airline-product-matters-and-award-seats-arent-free-giveaways/). Doesn’t mean wifi is profitable for airlines, but they do believe it drives a revenue premium of sorts. There’s also the question of fixed costs and opportunity cost but I don’t want to spend my entire day typing up a comment.
Again, no proof or evidence or even the Elliott Investment Management argument is presented with checked bags. Assigned seating and slightly higher fees for say a drink is not proof of checked bag fees coming. They aren’t even in the same ballpark, as no one really likes the the archaic and stressful boarding experience. If you know anything about LUV, the internal culture won’t allow it, it just won’t.
I’m not the one hung up on “uniqueness” here. There is no tie or chain to link the two points together, there is no proof that abandoning or how they abandoned their uniqueness is somehow leading to their current situation. And no what I said about it does not contradict myself (no two businesses are really the same).
Now as for my claims about financials et al and DoT fare data,
Hey Kyle where are YOUR sources for their financial situation?
You may just link to their quarterly press releases, and oh look you played yourself.
I do not need to link to my claims about financial performance of there is only one real and true source for that, the company itself. I was very explicitly referring to Southwests numbers, which you can get from Southwest themselves.
You can look up their casm and casm-ex there and compare it to other airlines. I felt very silly needing to link a source to prove what their casm is.
As for DoT fare data, again I very explicitly referred to that. As it’s by the government, it’s not hidden otherwise it wouldn’t be publicly available.
But since you’re so hung up on that, here’s a link (https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables.asp?QO_VQ=EEE&QO_anzr=Nv4%FDPn44vr4%FDf6n6v56vp5%FD%FLS14z%FDHE%FDg4nssvp%FM-%FDNyy%FDPn44vr45&QO_fu146_anzr=Nv4%FDPn44vr45). If you want a simpler, more easy link to navigate there’s also this (https://www.transportation.gov/policy/aviation-policy/domestic-airline-consumer-airfare-report). It’s quite easy to extraplote data inaccurately from here too, eg not halving the psg demand fugures to get the PDEW. There are also a few other sources but I don’t really use those.
Yes, Southwest airfares punch below competitors.
So back to financial claims. Somehow Southwest is charging very high fares relative to competitors, which I demonstrated is not true at all, it’s closer to the other way around.
Even if that was true, it makes no sense, otherwise SWA would be rolling in cash, then again they do have an excellent balance sheet but this comment is already too long. To handwave the false information as -Elliott Investment Management is asking the same questions- is avoiding the subject. There is no black hole that Southwest is dumping all that revenue from tickets in, the information presented in this blog is false.
@220HubAndSpoke – Too many items to address here. To be clear, the DoT data is accurate itself but highly flawed in your use of it. It shows lowest fare by carrier and carrier with the most seats on the route. If you scroll through it looks like there’s a fair amount of WN but if you look at those routes, it’s LAX-PHX, LAX-SFO, and the difference is minimal. Further, the difference in fare is not substantial. Take Las Vegas-San Francisco. The average fare is $165 on the route, WN is the lowest at $161. WN saves $4. LAX-PHX is an average of $182.22 vs WN at $170.42.
But just try some searches PIT-LAS 8/13-20. Route low is Spirit at $145 RT with some variants up to $187, but United and Delta come in at $266 RT. Southwest is $492. Same dates PIT-LAX $145 for Spirit, Delta, United, and American all at $269, Southwest is $398. Let’s get out of Pittsburgh and try Kansas City to New York, same dates. Spirit is $145, Frontier is $151. United and American, $219, and $238 then Delta at $309. Southwest is $310. I decided to try New York (any airport) to San Antonio – one of Southwest’s original three core airports. At this time I show Spirit at $87, then 132 fares from all of the other major carriers and discounters, then Southwest at $381. Throwing Southwest a softball, how about New York to Orlando? Discounters start at $131 and then 50 results later, Southwest at $166 with one result, then another 50 options on legacy and discount carriers until we get to $231 with a list of about 10 Southwest options. Pick a city pair and try for yourself.
Your justification that Southwest is still inexpensive because on a few select short haul nonstops they are $4-12 cheaper vs hundreds of dollars more expensive on other routes or those that involve a connection is the fallacy of your argument.
haha. You did exactly what I warned you off, that you would misread the data.
That first DoT link I gave you was very detailed, but instead you went to the second just to claim howI misread the data. I sourced that table, you could check the avg fare for each carrier on each route if you want. Southwest punches below competitors on many routes. I did not misread the data, you did.
Did you seriously just using one off searches as EVIDENCE? Completely destroys your argument. I tried searching up those dates and got different numbers. If you know anything about pricing, no two people on a plane pay the same price.
The real fallacy is your excessive use of confirmation bias.
Assigned seating is the headline her, do you have the data to back up “The expedited boarding process allowed Southwest incredibly short turn around times”? What is the average turnaround time for South West versus RyanAir?
Ryanair went to assigned seats what… 10-15 years ago? They do very quick turns… faster than Southwest. But they also start “boarding” before the plane is even there. Board people and make them stand in a corral or in a hallway to the ramp. So when last passenger is off, cabin is serviced, it’s “everybody on!” The quick part is not assigned vs unassigned seats… it is having all the passengers there and ready to go at once. The part about WN giving boarding numbers and in order is people all show up to the gate early to get on as soon as possible. Ryanair does that with assigned seats in that unique way.
Very true about Ryan and the turn around time. They are successful because unlike most American carriers (excluding Spirit Airlines who use the Ryan Air business model) people here are allowed to bring EVERYTHING on board @ zero financial cost. US carriers beat themselves,
@Tim – For the avoidance of doubt, not all US carriers allow free carry-ons on all fares. Frontier, Spirit, Allegiant have standard restrictions but United doesn’t allow a carry-on for Basic Economy. American or Delta had the same policy but has since rescinded it.
The open seating marginally improved turnaround times, but the major reason they get more airtime out of their planes is they don’t run a hub-and-spoke system, so planes don’t need to wait around for the whole inbound bank to land, disembark, make connections, then reload and leave – requiring planes to typically be on the ground at least an hour+. Sure, SWA has connections, but it’s not a banking system.
@Tory – This is where I was going. I didn’t come up with open seating, they did. They said it improved turn times, not me. When they implemented open seating it was before Ryan Air existed in its modern form which is an extreme version of Southwest’s original concept.
Even Spirit and Frontier are realizing that ferrying former Greyhound passengers from ghetto to ghetto is no longer paying the bills.
Whatever time savings that Southwest hope to gain by the “quick turn” boarding system was quickly consumed by boarding 25 wheelchair scammers per flight. Regular people who don’t actually mind paying a premium for service would avoid Southwest at all costs.
Southwest shut themselves out of the premium market in favor of flying low-rent slugs.
This is now changing.
No it will not kill Southwest Airlines.
Bags FLY FREE will stay.
Since WN changed its Boarding to A/B/C with the addition of BS A1-A15 and Early Bird boarding.
The FAKE pre boarding customers gaming the system and hurting those that actually need it for their own good has Diluted and killed WN top fare bucket year over year since the BS and EB was implemented. On packed flight on WN it’s now not uncommon for them to have 45 to 60 “Pre Boarding customers “ With Zero people in the A1-A15 group. WN did several test most recently for months last year in ATL where they tried out different methods of boarding and telling passengers they can’t save seats for their friends in Group C . But that approach only delayed flights more than helped them try and fix the problem. The only true solution is seat assignments. It works perfectly for Spirit as an example which has the fastest boarding times of a A321 in the entire world. Plus they have 40% more seats including BIg font seats than WN. WN has less gate checked bags 90% of the time than every US airline because of the BAGS FLY FREE.
WN just needs to alter the cheapest Wanna get away fare to only include 2 Free checked Bags and one Small personal carry on item . This would speed up the entire boarding process and reduce its turn time and increase its margins . They also need to eliminate the free Same Day Stand BY on any flight for the cheapest Wanna get away fare. This also dilutes the High fare buckets because nobody that stupid to Buy the higher fare if the cheapest fare has the same flexibility. WN basically sank its own revenue stream with that idiotic implementation . So if people really want an extra carry on bag or want the. same day standby flexibly WN can sell the upgrade to Wanna Get Away Plus .
Going to this new system WN “LUV even more leg room. Seating” replaces the BS A1-15 will give them a better product to out perform everyone else in the US industry that offer them same services. The seat Assignments And cabin layout change is almost cost neutral for Southwest to implement since you’re not adding any big fancy new over the top seats. WN fixed cost are still cheaper than American united, Delta And JetBlue so they can offer this new service at a lower price point and still make a profit on the service. If they don’t nickel and dime the seating map, like everyone else does, including the ultra cost carriers, WN can win everybody to their product because now those need to travel together we have the option to select their seats together when booking with the exception of the cheapest tickets on the want to get away fair bucket They’re smart enough to do that. Southwest is finally making some really smart choices with us versus just trying to keep doing what worked and 1970 and 2024 and losing a boatload of money. Herb Kelliher Southwest founder and Maverick. CO always said if you don’t evolve you die.. And he always said if you sit on your laurels long enough, the only thing you’re gonna get is a stick in your backside. I don’t think your assessment, but this will kill Southwest is factually correct it’s just headlines grabbing.
Here are the three reasons SWA is going to assigned seating.
1) Fake pre-boards. There are people with legitimate disabilities (some disabilities are non-visible). However, when 20+ people need a wheelchair at the origin airport, but only 3 need one at the destination — obviously many of the wheelchair people were faking. The fake pre-boards steal the aisle seats at the front of the plane and the bulkhead row. (They would take the exit rows but are not allowed to do so.) Many passengers were frustrated — paying as much as $150 on the day of the flight to get A1-A15 only to find out that the good seats were taken by pre-boards (many of them fake).
2) Saving seats. SWA says they don’t have a policy. Which means people save seats and passengers are required to either #1 = have a confrontation with a selfish person or #2 = avoid the confrontation and maybe get stuck in a middle seat. Not a good way to start a vacation.
3) Family boarding. When the need is real, fine. But policy is only two adults with a child. Not 2 parents, 4 grandparents, etc, etc., etc. This one is not as much a problem as #1 and #2, but the problem exists.
They said their surveys showed 80% of customers and 86% of potential customers prefer an assigned seat.
Instead of changing the entire process, why not make a section of the aircraft (the extra legroom one for example) assigned seating with one color seats. Make the rest open seating in an other color.
To handle the full flight but not all assigned seats purchased…
Assign those during checkin or at the gate like other airlines.
I just don’t think in 2024 you can get away with putting the colored in a certain section of the plane, especially not the back.
But it’s interesting to know racism and segregation is alive and well with Greg.
Greg was referring to color-coded seating, not a person’s race or skin color.
Sam, that was a joke. He was kidding.
@Greg – I saw that quote too. It’s important to see what they left out. They didn’t ask, how many would rather pay for an assigned seat over an open seating policy. That’s different but really important because that’s what they are doing.
I’d be willing to bet 100% of flyers don’t want a middle seat. Novel concept. But how many will pay just $10 more each way to ensure they don’t have one, far less than 100%. My point is that stat is completely meaningless because how many people want assigned seats is an entirely different question than, “how many prefer to pay for a seat assignment vs take their chances with unassigned seating onboard?” It’s a completely different result.
They phrased the question to drive the answer. When those rates climb from $8 to $10 to $45 each way for a bulkhead or exit row, the response changes too. But not if you don’t ask the question in a way that pins what will happen – charging for preferred seats – vs no cost seat assignments.
Southwest hasn’t done quick turns in years. That was a thing years ago, but with fuller flights and more crowded airports, they haven’t been able to use that practice for many years.
Also the decision to move away from open seating is largely driven by customer feedback. Travelers were fed up with people taking advantage of pre-boarding to secure better seats.
I think your gloom and doom article is partially driven by your lack of knowledge.
@Eric – They also haven’t worn hot pants in years (also in the post) nor given away full bottles of booze and my point in all of that was they are moving away from what made them quirky, unique, profitable and efficient, to a legacy carrier. It’s still profitable and debt free, but why give away what makes you, you?
80% of their customers would like assigned GOOD seats ! Let’s see what happens when the seat map shows only lousy seats available
@harry hv – 100% That’s exactly it. It’s like saying, “86% of passengers would like catered meals to return to airlines.” It’s a different response when you tell them they will have to pay for it. As long as you don’t tell them that, it’s easy to show support for whatever you want.
So the people who rarely fly won’t be able to self upgrade and block out rows of prime seats for free?
And the single biggest turn off for frequent business fliers is being removed?
Maybe I’m missing something, but it sounds like a smart move.
I don’t see assigned seats as the end of Southwest. It will not slow down things.
@derek – It’s not about speed, it’s about the soul of Southwest and it’s key differentiators disappearing.
Southwest B737-700 have 143 seats. The -800 have 175.
Both Southwest and JetBlue are pretty much garbage now. Southwest for high fares and planes almost falling into the ocean. JetBlue for crazy bag fees and late planes. Thank goodness Breeze and Avelo are growing. Good riddance, good morning Southwest.
Interesting posts and interesting comments, per usual. From a personal standpoint, however, this change could get me to actually test Southwest. As a very long male, I’m very picky about my seat, and have never considered Southwest. If I could secure a bulkhead seat, I’d change my mind.
Congratulations on being a long male. Lucky for you this site doesn’t offer PM or DM’s, otherwise you would be getting a lot of offers from a few on here. Guaranteed Aaron would love to give it a test run.
Expedited boarding process? That hasn’t been the case in years. Scheduled turn times are about the same as the legacies, and even with that, I’ve observed they struggle badly getting boarding started on time, let alone pushing back timely.
Anyway, I disagree that assigned seating will kill WN, assuming the system they come up with is a good one. What WILL kill the airline is if they institute Basic Economy. The raiders at Elliot want it, though I guess we’ll see if they can keep the wolves at bay.
@MeanMeosh – Point of the post was to say that hallmarks of the Southwest experience are killing what made it Southwest.
I had began to switch our family from the Big Carriers (especially United) to Southwest because of its luggage and Open Seating policy – it has been WAY less stressful. So I’m sorry to see Southwest is taking away the reasons I switched to that airline.
Why would you subject your family to being separated into middle seats? All in with luggage fee with the legacies is still cheaper than Southwest. You can negate the luggage fee with an airline credit card. Plus the miles you earn can take you out of the country.
assigned seating would be nice …keep the checked bags free ..if you have to charge for seating …window $15…middle $5…aisle $10….i would pay that..
Nobody is happy just making a profit anymore, they have to make more, make a killing, and grow grow grow. Gotta get those CEO bonuses up.
@Jedmo – I agree.
I will never fly an airline unless I get to choose which seat I will be in at the time I buy the ticket. And that seat must be in business or first class. Southwest has taken one necessary step towards getting my business. There is too much trash flying these days. Pajamas and flip flops are not appropriate flying attire. I refuse to fight for over a seat with Two Ton Tammy from Toledo.
Southwest serve more passengers than any other U.S. airlines and has the least debt on the book. She will be doing fine even if she start charging seat assignment AND checked luggage. Loyal fans will accustomed to the new policy after a while. Business travellers who like assigned seat will quickly jump on board, to take advantage of SW vast domestic networks.
@Tony – I agree it won’t kill the business, just the brand. No one will start flying Southwest that isn’t already doing so because they can pay for a specific seat assignment. But there are people that treat it like a lottery ticket and hope that they are able to score a great seat rather than paying for one at another carrier. Those folks now have no reason to choose Southwest over any other carrier.
There’s a difference between assigned seating and charging for assigned seats. I’m okay with the former, but the reason I like Southwest is because I know what I’m paying upfront. The other option in our market, Allegiant, won’t let you know how much seating fees and checked bag fees are until the end of the booking process. Even if it’s cheaper and direct compared to a layover and a little more money for Southwest, Allegiant is so annoying that it just isn’t worth it. If Southwest becomes the same as Allegiant only more expensive, there’s no point in booking with Southwest. Frankly, we will probably just avoid traveling as much because of the time it takes to compare fares.
@Cole – That’s exactly it. They didn’t ask (nor state that they did) “would you prefer to pay to select a seat and know in advance where you’ll be sitting?” They asked if customers would prefer assigned seats over open boarding. It’s not a fair question given the real outcomes of the answer.
Lets take a hard scrub of Southwest:
– It moved to hub & spoke status when it bought AirTran and moved into ATL. If in doubt, look at the crowd at ALT making connections like a legacy carrier. DL must get a laugh watching this. Same situation at DEN with United.
– Southwest fares are no better than any of the the other carriers. They will match dollar for dollar any competing airline within 30 minutes of departure. Otherwise, it’s what ever the market will bare, I can remember the Peanut fares and the hot pants FAs of the early 80’s. This is loooong gone!! The only thing that has stayed the same is the name and luggage count.
– PAX are tired of the boarding shenanigans. On my two last fights with WN, I ran into the “reserved seating” BS while holding position 30 or 35 in Group A. Yet, the flight was only half full. On another flight, I counter bluffed a couple, one sitting at the window and the second on the aisle. I plopped my arse in the middle before they could react. The only good thing is they were passing very good snacks between them for which I partook.
– Don’t get me started with the “Jesus Jetway” crowd. Waiting to board at the far end of the terminal at FLL, I got up to stretch my legs. Coming right at me was a grandma in a marathon stride that would put a teenager to shame. Under her arm was a walking cane. Yet, she was part of the early boarding crowd….go figure!!
– Long distance flights to Hawaii and adoption of red eye service moves WN to legacy status. Knowing I can pay extra to reserve an aisle seat is very important to me. Why pay for early boarding only to sit between a PAX with her faux service dog and the head of the the Jesus Jetway convention.
It’s time for WN to move into the big leagues. The PAX are demanding it. Time to wake up!!
Southwest is leaving Houston Bush International Airport, https://www.fly2houston.com/newsroom/releases/southwest-cease-operations-bush-airport-houston-airports-now-talking-other#:~:text=Southwest%20Airlines%20confirmed%20flights%20in,cease%20on%20August%204%2C%202024.
This article is riddled with inaccuracies, too many to list with so little time, this, to provoke responses.
@uroutaplace – Feel free to engage, you’ve responded here, why not go further?
I countered a lot of Kyle Stewarts article above.
You aren’t the only one who was annoyed by this
Why are all these political comments here? Are these from BOTS from outside the USA? Surely no human would make such remarks. This is an article about a much beloved airline. Moderator- step in.
@Margo – Welcome to LiveAndLetsFly.com. Politics has unfortunately infiltrated every conversation, even those that are specifically apolitical. This started approximately a decade ago around 2015.
I think it is overall a good move. Southwest made its name as a LCC between cities or airports that were underserved. It is no longer a LCC – I always check its price, and it is usually right where the other major US carriers are, sometimes more. Add in extra charges for early boarding, and it is even higher. It does have a good route network. I don’t think I am alone in saying that if they allow you to select seats online (particularly when flying with family) that I will look more favorably on taking it. And the same thing getting rid of all the pre-boarding gaming. If I have to pay more for the seats I want, well, that is not much different than paying for earlier boarding.
Times and customer expectations have changed.
Southwest is just one more close call, going the wrong way, to causing big time harm to its brand.
Herb Kelleher famously said “Your employees come first. And if you treat your employees right, guess what? Your customers come back, and that makes your shareholders happy. Start with employees and the rest follows from that.” Basically, employees first, customers second and shareholders third. It made flying Southwest quirky and fun and wildly successful. By abandoning this mantra, by making shareholder value the only metric that matters, the airline has condemned itself to follow Eastern, Pan Am, TWA and Braniff to the history books.
Holy Jetbridge Jesus, Batman! Southwest’s assigned seating threatens our national health system. Millions of passengers bound to wheelchairs may never be healed and find they can walk again on the blessed Jetbridge of St. Herb.
A change to boarding doesnt undo everything that makes WN, WN. Let’s see if they go international, charge for carry-ons, and open lounges.
Also, thanks to assigned seating, I’m now far more inclined to fly SWA. They already have the best customer-facing people in domestic aviation and they have the most non stop routes out of my city. But I didn’t care for the cattle call and lack of premium seating options.
I’m Delta Medallion but I could become SWA loyal if service continues to improve.