Sometimes it is necessary to dig a little deeper. A story is not always what it appears to be on the surface.
It’s true. A Thai Airways captain demanded first class seats for his off-duty pilot colleagues on a flight from Zurich to Bangkok last week. It is also true that when initially refused, he delayed the flight. The flight landed 1.5 hours late in Bangkok, taking off only after two passengers agreed to move to business class.
Thai Airways’ president issued an apology on Facebook:
As the top management of the company, I am sorry and apologize to all passengers who have affected by this non-professional conduct and delay. I also apologize to the passengers who were forced to move seats. I am liable for the passengers on the flight in the incident, and now invite all involved to examine the facts and take appropriate action, including measures to ensure this will not happen in the future.
If that were it, boy would I come down hard on the captain of the flight. What gall. What arrogance.
But there’s more to the story. Lucky lays out the issue nicely and in great detail, but I’m going to use bullet points instead:
- Zurich is not a three-cabin route for Thai Airways.
- 777-300s and 747-400s used on this route have first class cabins, but are sold as part of business class and service levels are identical to business class.
- It appears the pilots’ contracts guarantee first class seating on dead-heading flights.
- The captain refused to take off because he did not want to set a precedent for seating off-duty pilots in business class
- Two business class passengers who had snagged first class seats eventually agreed to row 16, thus ending the impasse.
If You Give Them An Inch, They Take A Mile
As I get older, I’m realizing more and more that if you give an unscrupulous person an inch, he takes a mile. I cannot read Thai and and thus am going off Google Translate, but if Thai off-duty pilots are guaranteed first class seats, I cannot fault them for exercising that right.
Had the pilots just said, okay, we’ll take business class, a bad precedent would have been set. Thai Airways may have felt emboldened to require this more often. Perhaps this whole issue was an error by out-station staff that led to upgrades for passengers who should not have received first class seats. Or perhaps the pilots decided last-minute that they wanted to get back to Bangkok. I don’t know. I just think labor contracts should be respected by both sides.
For the record, I do not like to see pilots in first class. Business Class should be enough (though business class on Thai Airways leaves much to be desired…). But my personal opinion does not matter. If Thai Airways and their pilots agreed to first class seats, Thai Airways should respect that contractual right.
CONCLUSION
It is too bad that most passengers on the flight got caught in the middle of this snafu. This delay is also a poor testament of labor relations at Thai Airways. Even so, sometimes you just cannot roll over and be taken advantage of.
image: Thai Airways
I always like your explanations much better than Ben’s. I read both blogs, but Ben rambles on way too long. Your explanation was easy to understand and more than adequate. I agree with everything you said, though why don’t they have special seats for pilots, like they often do for crew? I’m confused about that.
That’s an excellent question, though I don’t think the 777-300s have the little sleeping room for pilots like the 747-400. I’ll look into it.
Any crew bunks or rest seats are reserved for crew members who are working. Deadheading crew members are not allowed (technically) to use the crew bunks, although actual practices may vary once the flight takes off.
When ppl say TG is notorious for switching planes, they’re not wrong. I had booked TG Royal Orchid from Frankfurt to Bangkok as they were flying their new A350 and wanted to try it. It got switched to an old 747-400 a week before. Was terribly disappointed as the old recliner seats on the 747 were simply an obsolete product and uncomfortable for long haul. The consolation was that TG re-allocated me a seat in the First Class cabin instead. Or so I thought. When i got to the gate, i was issued a different boarding pass and was told they closed First Class section as they didn’t have enough cabin crew (!). Was speechless but didn’t want to make a scene and hold up other passengers. After i boarded, I could see the ppl seated in the First Class cabin so the reason given to me was total BS. Furious, I wrote a couple of complaint emails to Thai to seek an explanation to this fiasco. They never even acknowledged my feedback. Have since taken my business elsewhere.
This is the crony culture that keeps Thailand from advancing. Another unmentioned fact is that TG is essentially an arm of the Thai Air Force, and is thought by many elites to serve the interests of the military and its cronies first, and passengers and minority private shareholders last. Stealing privilege from the rest of society, and then screwing the people further to enforce your unearned entitlement, is nothing at all to be proud of. Shame.
Wow… butthurt much?
Sorry, I don’t understand your English.
Since the pilots were deadheading to BKK to presumably work on other flights,shouldn’t getting them on time to their destination supersede the pilot’s interpretation of the labor contract? How is refusing to transport essential personnel on time not considered insubordination?
Someone from the low ranks in seat inventory will ultimately pay for this mistake. They should have blocked the F-Class seats and only used them with the ZRH airport staff. Allowing your Bus Class flyers to chose a F-Class seat is wrong – even if the service was identical. The pilot in charge was not wrong to delay the flight – nor should TG ever have let this information out for public use. If there was a delay – it should have been coded as an Operational delay and leave it at that. SOMETIMES the public does not need to know the exact reason for the delay, except as to say IT IS THE AIRLINE’S FAULT.
1. Don’t forget that they changed from aircraft with have more BC(777) to less BC(747) and this changed aircraft announcement had been announced on website around 2 weeks plus the seat flow chart also came out all full board which has increase the FC but pay on BC price which quite normal for some experienced passenger when such thing happened as this official changing by TG.
2. Along to the news said the captain bed room which inside the captain cabin still available on that time and they are entitled to use it why didn’t they use it.
@CAsey
Your argument makes no sense. TG’s Revenue Management has, for years now, allowed Business Class passengers to pre-select Royal First seats on 3-class aircraft being sold as 2 classes. Why would a low-level Inventory Analyst be responsible for this ?
The action of both the operating pilots and the deadheading pilots was despicable here.
Followed from the Thai daily news today:
1. All Thais know that TG usually serve priority by relationship, member of family, cousin, politician, big surname or elite ….of course passenger later in most of times.
2. Regards to they claim to their contract guarantee on First class but the news said his guarantee is Business/First class( if any) and in this case the empty business seat still available why they didn’t take it. Especially Thais know that Thai Airways(TG) still have a deficit a lot and live with tax payer money for decades while their union with huge allowance/benefit made them more arrogance for example : a free ticket fare for family/companion(if single)and themselves, food, nice hotel in city when they landed, transportation, increase salary, company pay income tax for employee too…etc.
4. Sometimes you cannot find the TRUTH in this Mysterious Organization. They work in their own way/style/ thought/ attitude /believes.
I think your coverage of this is quite fair and reasonable. Though Inwould quibble with the title that he delayed the flight to seat “friends”. What’s really interesting is why it took so long to move 2 customers.
I’m curious though why you don’t like to see Pilots (and I assume other airline employees) in First class? By first class I assume you mean international 3 or (with premium economy) 4 cabin first class?
I do mean international first class most of all. I have no problem with non-revs, but I just wish uniformed pilots and FAs would have their own area to rest. It’s totally subjective, but I think it looks so unprofessional to have crew members sleeping amongst the passengers.
That’s fair and I can certainly understand your feelings. Obviously we’d generally prefer to have our own space as well especially on aircraft where it’s possible like the 747. I do think as time goes on you will see less and less of uniformed crew in long haul premium seats as airlines equip new aircraft with overhead rest areas allowing them to sell more seats.
No one familiar with Thailand and Thai Airways will be even remotely surprised by this story, let alone shocked. Indeed, this is far from unususual and fairly typical of the “elite”….it’s only newsworthy because ,presumably, those effectively blackmailed out of their F seats were “hiso” passengers.
Thai Airways is beyond effed. The government’s ” golden share” is worthless.
The new execs are making ridiculous decisions, eg, the expectation that people will pay a premium to fly on TG ( try any matrix search on a route flown by them and you will see many cheaper, often better, alternatives).
So you don’t like to see a dead-heading captain sitting in the first class cabin? If you were a passenger on a cruise ship you would fight right along with the rest of them to sit at the captain’s table, both captains of a complex and very expensive machine that carries a lot of passengers many revenue miles, so what’s the big difference? Suggest you stay away from JAL too. An airliner achieves in an hour what a passenger ship achieves in a day so they are very comparable. Probably down to sheer jealousy.
I think uniformed crew members in the first class (and even business class cabin) give an unprofessional appearance. I have no trouble with a cabin full of non-revs who are dressed out of uniform. Just my opinion.
Most airline policies would preclude the crew member being in uniform… pilots, for the most part, would remove their epaulets so as to become inconspicuous. Of course its soon becomes aware who’s who once the cabin service starts and better service is invariably directed towards them.
Still, if you could remove them, where would you like them? The Crew Rest is not authorised for use for take off or landing. Sure, they could use the jumpseat and then use the crew rest, but then what about the operating crew? There is only so much space on an aircraft – for someone who flies, allegedly, as much as you do, you of all people should know this
Since I work for the airlines so I would like to show my point of views on this incident. Cockpit Crew rest bunk is similar to Business class seats as seats can be reclined to flat bed for occupants to sleep. Cockpit crew contract was for deadhead pilots to travel on duty in first class seats when available, if not, they will be entitled to occupy business class seats.
Original aircraft type is fitted with Cockpit crew rest bunk (similar to business class seats) but due to change of aircraft, the replacement aircraft is without cockpit rest bunk. When there’s a change of aircraft, sometimes, seats in business class are less than original one therefore it’s possible that Ground staff assigned first class seats to revenue pax especially if they are titled holders/frequent flyers, this decision is to give recognition to top tier passengers and to ensure enough seats for business class passengers. Ground staff has to follow TG’s upgrade policy accordingly.
What appeared was once operating Captain found out that his colleagues were assigned business class seats and ground staff upgraded businesses class passengers, he insisted to revert the decision that causes delays.
Deadhead pilots are required to have adequate inflight rest according to civil aviation law but it was not a must to rest only in first class seats.
In regards to Safety issues as claimed, Cockpit crew can have adequate rest in business class seats but it’s not comfortable as in first class seats.
It’s true that upgraded passengers occupied first class seats but it’s them who paid for the salaries of all entire crew including the operating Captain.
Handling delay is very stressful for all teams involved.
Hope TG Management takes appropriate action as deems fit and necessary.
Hi Maew..Thanks for your clarification . It seems this incident caused by the operating captain ‘s arrogance or personal demand. Can’t imagine if the complaint letter by that FC couple didn’t come out, World no chance to know.
Paying customers should have priority over uniformed airline employees on non-active crew status. They pay for those dead-heading pilot’s salaries…
it’s wrong, the first class seat was proposed on miles and more website (747 instead of 777-300ER 2 classes usually used on Zrh route). 105’000 miles one way, sold as first, no doubts.
First Class seats if available, not guaranteed . As a previous gold card holder for Thai Airways I have flown all classes, and business class is very comfortable only seats cannot lie down.
Very good spin piece,
What I’ve heard is so different.The captains and crews on that flight were scapegoat.It was the station manager who managed to upgrade the pax who just paid only for business to first class.Despite knowing that the flight has blocked those first class seat for deadhead crews but in favor of those pax who are powerful in their country.The manager decided to kiss their a** and the result is what we’ve seen.The reason of the delayed come from that manager who can’t clarify the reason to the captain once he was asked to explain.Only threaten captain that the customers are so valuable that changing seat map is impossible.For safety reason the captain wasn’t admit that configuration that changed from the original and continue to wait for an answer until 2.5 hrs has passed.
TG 777-300 do not have any First class cabin.