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Home » Travel » The Chicago Seminars Civil War
Travel

The Chicago Seminars Civil War

Matthew Klint Posted onJuly 5, 2023November 13, 2023 32 Comments

a building with lights on it

This year there will not be one Chicago Seminars, but two…on the same weekend and in the same city. So what is going on? And should you attend one instead of the other?

Chicago Seminars Civil War…One Weekend, Two Frequent Flyer Events

For over a decade, the Chicago Seminars has been the “original” points and miles gathering and truly represented a labor of love for the event speakers and organizers. I have spoken at a couple of them and found the community there a great treasure. This is a strictly non-profit event: speakers are not paid and any income after travel and logistical expenses are covered is donated to charity.

Gary offered his take this morning and I have a slightly different one. In short, there is a lot going on behind the scenes which has led up to not one, but two Chicago Seminars this year:

  • Chicago Seminars (hosted by Stefan Krasowski)
  • Chicago Seminars (hosted by Marty Paz, JT Genter, and Chris Moss)

And this year the Chicago Seminars occur on the same weekend as ZorkFest, which I was invited to speak at but regretfully declined because my wife and I will be on vacation on another continent.

I’m not going to overtly take a side in this battle; I find it tragic and I greatly lament that the two sides could not work out an appropriate compromise.

But let me say this. I know Marty Paz and respect him. I know JT Genter and appreciate greatly his work for TPG and now for Award Wallet. And I know Stefan Krasowski more so than anyone else involved and view him as a friend and selfless colleague who loves the miles and points community and has moved forward with a competing event with the best of intentions.

Gary noted debate about who is speaking at what event. Stefan has fully updated the speaker list, based on additions and two declines he later received.

On View From The Wing, JT presented his case on the root of the issue:

a screenshot of a letter

But having spoken to Stefan, the situation is more nuanced than the idea that he went AWOL, forcing the other organizers to move on without him. There are legal and contractual issues at play that complicate this and the notion that Stefan essentially was derelict in his duty does not accurately portray what led to the civil war. There are personality issues at play here and there is also confusion over legal rights and remedies. I have not met Chris Moss and therefore will not express an opinion on his role in creating the current situation.

In addition to our verbal conversation, Stefan sent me a written statement, of which I am including excerpts below:

I have sought to not involve others or ask people to take sides in this Chicago Seminars mess. I am not engaging in public attacks. I am continuing with the 2023 event with the team I hired, which does not include this group of three who are now running their own event…

There were lengthy reconciliation attempts, including with a mutually agreed moderator, in which I made offers that were declined and the process failed. I then concluded the event needed to move forward as best it could in the legal process with a new venue…

We look forward to a positive event, not one run out of spite. You will not see me engaging in public attacks.

No matter who might be at fault, the result is two events in one weekend. And I think we can all agree that this is an unfortunate occurrence.

From my perspective, I wish all event organizers and both events all the best…the pie is theoretically big enough for both events, though it is sad that on the same weekend in the same city, there will be two events covering substantially the same topics (and it even appears there will be some overlap in speakers).

In a note to attendees, Stefan thanked the organizers of the competing event for their help in 2022:

As I did at the 2022 event close, I want to publicly recognize Marty, JT, and Chris, who carried a heavy, last-minute load for the 2022 event during my health issues. The 2022 event would not have been the great success it was without them, and indeed, may not have happened at all. JT and Chris, in particular to note, were first-time volunteers at the event, embracing it with enthusiasm. They joined the regulars of a decade of volunteering to pull off 2022.

That trio will now be running their own event the same weekend. While it necessarily represents a fracturing in the community, two different styles with the capacity of two venues will give you all more choice what to attend and expand the charitable capacity at the core of both Chicago Seminars and their new endeavor.

I don’t sense ill-will on the side of Stefan. It is unfortunate that the other side appears to be pressuring event attendees and speakers to ditch Stefan’s event.

CONCLUSION

My hope is that next year we will see a single event once again.

And my point here is really just to make clear that one side has decided to launch a very public campaign against the other, but there are two sides to the story and there are facts that have not been made public that make this a tragic, yet complex issue.

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About Author

Matthew Klint

Matthew is an avid traveler who calls Los Angeles home. Each year he travels more than 200,000 miles by air and has visited more than 135 countries. Working both in the aviation industry and as a travel consultant, Matthew has been featured in major media outlets around the world and uses his Live and Let's Fly blog to share the latest news in the airline industry, commentary on frequent flyer programs, and detailed reports of his worldwide travel.

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32 Comments

  1. Scale ⚖️ Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 4:19 pm

    Sure seems like you are taking a side

    • Matthew Klint Reply
      July 5, 2023 at 4:22 pm

      I wish both sides great success and think you should choose which event to go to based on the speaker list. That’s not taking sides.

      But I cannot simply let Stefan be attacked without suggesting there is more going on than meets the eye.

  2. Marty Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 4:21 pm

    I am saddened that you did not reach out to me for any comments before publishing this article. I am unsure if you spoke with Chris or JT as they are in different time zones, but they did not report anything to me.

    • Matthew Klint Reply
      July 5, 2023 at 4:25 pm

      JT has been so forceful in so many outlets online, that it seemed to me that your event clearly was spoken for…

      I am happy to clarify anything and will reach out to you now.

    • John Reply
      July 5, 2023 at 4:32 pm

      Marty – your multiple spam messages on whatsapp to advertise your event and talks of discussing the drama later are not appreciated. Rethink your advertising strategy and focus on what value you can provide to attendees, not how much you and everyone associated can stir the pot.

  3. GUWonder Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 4:46 pm

    The divided events don’t serve the attendees of either event well, as much as the concentration of resources has networking effect benefits for attendees,

  4. Cy Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 5:00 pm

    Seems like a bunch of juveniles who can’t get along…are these the same type of people who fight on a plane and punch gate agents?

  5. Stuart Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 5:09 pm

    Sounds more like a dying industry and a bunch of people airing out their frustrations with it in public. Miles and points are dead as far as gaming anything anymore…so, what are they going to talk about? Airline devaluations and the growing scam? And that Hyatt is about the last good hotel program left?

    Why does anyone need to fly to Chicago to discover this? And to a Holiday Inn no less? Who are they going after as their attendees? Mabel in South Dakota with her newly minted AA Citi card she uses to charge her farm feed to so she can dream of a first class ticket to Hawaii that will never happen?

    It all appears to be less a feud over success and more like a bunch of dudes fighting over life boats on the Titantic.

    • Fathiss Reply
      July 5, 2023 at 8:15 pm

      I enjoyed reading your response. Quite funny really.
      I’ll disagree with one point. Miles and points are not dead. I’ll do more this year than any other and I have incrementally increased for years. It’s not as easy as it used to be for sure. The effort not worth it for many, I know.
      I guess this is a good networking event for those who need or enjoy that stuff. But I agree with your point that I doubt there is anything new to learn out there for veterans of the game.

      • Stuart Reply
        July 6, 2023 at 7:55 am

        Perhaps I should have worded it better. I was saying that the “gaming” aspect of miles and points is dead. Which was ultimately the bread and butter of these conferences. Other than basic tips as to redemption value at last minute there is little left to teach. Unless of course you are targeting Mabel in Iowa who is charging farm feed to a AA Citi card. If anything to teach her not to get her hopes too high

  6. Marla Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 5:32 pm

    Thank you for this measured, mature post. The vitriol the Elk Grove Village organizers have directed at Stefan publicly has convinced me not to attend their event as I can’t imagine how much time will be wasted with this topic at their event. I also wonder how long if Stefan will file a lawsuit against them for their nasty comments about him. So unhelpful to the community, and not something I want to participate in.

    • Ryan Reply
      July 5, 2023 at 6:10 pm

      I can’t express how hard I laughed at this for how uninformed it is. I will buy front-row tickets to any court hearing Stefan would try to hold, just so I could see people’s reactions to realizing other people tried to hold the event together while Stefan disappeared and then his attempts to sling mud to save face.

  7. Marla Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 5:35 pm

    To be clear: The thing I don’t want to participate in is the Elk Grove event. Don’t really want to spend a weekend trekking to a Chicago suburb (October is always so busy without miles and points conferences!) but I suspect I will go to Willowbrook in the end.

  8. Billy Bob Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 5:40 pm

    Just a note to all the “alphas” who are afraid of Chicago… neither of these seminars are actually in chicago so you can safely attend without risking your lives.

  9. Greg Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 5:43 pm

    Not encouraging to hear JT is very visible on the blogs trying to promote / clarify, while there’s a comment here Marty is spamming whatsapp

    Color me skeptical someone who was on staff at TPG is here for an authentic community event

    • Matthew Klint Reply
      July 5, 2023 at 6:10 pm

      I can vouch for JT’s character. I have no reason suspect it.

  10. Fonzi Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 7:39 pm

    Stefan in his statement did not explain his silence in communication as Jt mentioned. I have no reason to not believe to Jt. Fault or no fault yes there is an ego in play and i think that is Stefans

  11. Jerry Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 7:50 pm

    One two parties insist they’re right, it means one of them is lying. Considering the infighting and the “facts that have not been made public” it seems like these events should be held in Washington, not Chicago.

  12. JoeMart Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 8:37 pm

    I don’t hold a candle in this funeral of past acquaintances. The key to provide preponderance of evidence against JT ‘s account is for Stefan to publish the emails answering the alleged contact attempts.

    • Maryland Reply
      July 5, 2023 at 8:53 pm

      @ Jerry

      My guess is the truth is somewhat in the middle. Maybe hurt feelings, maybe misunderstanding? All in all it’s a shame.

  13. John Q. Public Reply
    July 5, 2023 at 10:51 pm

    I went to one of these events in Washington, DC in 2015. Mathew’s United Mileage Plus program presentation was great. But beyond that, some of the other seminar content was pretty off putting. Specifically, the manufactured spending presentations seemed like classes on how to commit fraud. It was pretty blatant. Worse, the event organizers condoned it—if not purposely scheduled it as part of the event’s draw. I never attended again. So if this is the beginning of the end of the greed seminars—Mathew excluded from that label—then that’s probably a good thing.

    Worse, this seemed to be sanctioned by the event organizers. I never went again.

  14. MSK Reply
    July 6, 2023 at 2:37 am

    This post is well received Matthew. I don’t know Stefan well, but have met him a couple of times and have so much respect for him and what he’s done for the community.

    Well I’m sure there are two sides to every fallout- we hadn’t heard from Stefan so it’s good to shed some insight into his side of the story.

    What’s most disappointing to see though is a mini army of “influencers” who are taking such glee in the aftermath of this fallout. Childish responses/posts on accounts like “Ashley gets around” are vindictive, sensationalist and just so trashy for lack of a better word.. so all the more then that I appreciate reading some factual thoughts that you and Gary have put out.

  15. John S Reply
    July 6, 2023 at 3:45 am

    No one has brought up the fact that both seminars (and the ZorkFest) ignored that the prior weekend is a three day weekend for many folks. Columbus Day/Indigenous People’s Day is Monday, October 9. That weekend might have made a better choice to hold one of these events.

    Didn’t Stefan ghost the other guys? What a dick move after the fact they stepped in and helped him out last year.

  16. BillyBob Reply
    July 6, 2023 at 9:26 am

    What is the intention of creating a second event with the same name and same dates if not to divide the community?

    • Matthew Klint Reply
      July 6, 2023 at 9:42 am

      The question is who created the second event.

      • Now ya know Reply
        July 6, 2023 at 2:59 pm

        Stefan did

  17. Lukas Reply
    July 6, 2023 at 10:21 am

    Communication is key in ANY relationship. Given that Stefan was silent for MONTHS, I lay the blame squarely on his shoulders. Despite his health issues, he was NEVER on his phone for even a minute to acknowledge what’s going on with him? If he let others know right away, they would act accordingly and there would be no rift. In words of Reddit, Stefan, YTA (you are the a$$hole).

  18. John Reply
    July 6, 2023 at 11:48 am

    This comment section reeks of the hyperaggressive organizers of the Busse Rd. event.

  19. Chris W Reply
    July 6, 2023 at 5:31 pm

    As Phoebe from Friends would say: “mine is an example of a real problem, while yours is a bunch of high school nobody really cares about”.

    This reflect poorly on both parties and the FF community as a whole. This is fracturing an already extremely niche market.

  20. John Reply
    July 7, 2023 at 5:41 pm

    The mudslinging from Marty and crew continues. He sent more spam via Whatsapp, trying to drag certain people and then mentioning that chit chat doesn’t help anything. Finally finishing with asking everyone to keep what he said off the record.

    hmm

    • Matthew Klint Reply
      July 7, 2023 at 6:51 pm

      You want to share that with me?

      I have no dislike of Marty – I am still trying to get to the bottom of this situation.

  21. Swifties Rule Reply
    September 29, 2023 at 1:40 pm

    All I know of Chris Moss is that his reputation is such that he is certainly one I would not want to deal with. Ever.

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