If it follows through on its warning, you will soon no longer be able to catch an Uber or Lyft in Minneapolis, Minnesota. That truly hurts the very people the City Council set out to “help” by raising minimum wages to levels that will depress demand and leave ridesharing as a luxury for the wealthy. But more importantly, this sort of overreach fuels the outrage that propels people like Donald Trump into office.
Showdown In Minneapolis: Uber + Lyft Threaten To Pull Out
New rules on ride-share driver pay in Minneapolis have prompted both Lyft and Uber to announce that operations will be suspended effective May 1, 2024. Overriding a mayoral veto, the City Council has set minimum pay at:
- $1.40 per mile + $0.51 per minute while transporting passengers
- minimum pay of $5 per ride
- 80% of cancel fees must go to driver
(Mayor Jacob Frey had proposed $0.89 per mile and $0.49 per minute)
Citing studies that such wages are unsustainable, Lyft and Uber say they are pulling out.
The path to profitability for Uber and Lyft has always been about depressing wages for gig workers.
If a company can’t afford to pay their drivers a livable wage, maybe that company doesn’t deserve to exist. pic.twitter.com/x3WAASr4K2
— Lee Hepner (@LeeHepner) March 15, 2024
What a foolish statement. People drive for Lyft or Uber because they deem it their best alternative. What this fool is saying is that if these workers cannot earn what he deems a livable wage, they do not deserve the opportunity to work.
Lyft justifies its termination of service on the basis that it would have to double fares to comply with the new ordinance:
“We support a minimum earning standard for drivers, but it should be done in an honest way that keeps the service affordable for riders.”
By its projections, that would destroy demand for its services. And I think that is quite right. Companies have a right to protest ordinances like this that unduly place burdens on their very business model (and not, in this case, on taxi cabs). Again, no one forces “gig workers” to drive for Uber and Lyft.
Meanwhile, Uber said that it is “disappointed the council chose to ignore the data and kick Uber out of the Twin Cities, putting 10,000 people out of work and leaving many stranded.” It is referring to data suggesting that these higher rates will dramatically depress rideshare demand in the Twin Cities.
As Democratic Mayor Frey pointed out:
“Everyone wants to see Uber and Lyft drivers get paid more. But getting a raise doesn’t do a whole lot of good if you lose your job.”
Isn’t that always the struggle? On the one hand, every worker should earn enough to live on for an honest day’s work. If that is not happening, there is something fundamentally wrong in a country as wealthy as the United States. But on the other hand, setting a wage floor significantly above a “living wage” for unskilled workers who are neither compelled nor coerced into work is destructive for the economy.
If Uber or Lyft becomes too expensive, people will stop using it. Drivers will not make a living wage if there is no business for them. It will hurt local restaurants that rely on Uber Eats for revenue. That will hurt local suppliers of food and beverages. There are grave consequences that cannot simply be masked as companies not wanting to pay their workers a living wage. We have discretion too and one reason I now drive to the airport instead of using rideshare is because the prices have risen to a level at which it is simply not worthwhile for me.
I largely concur with the analysis of View From The Wing and write about it as a cautionary tale for other cities, including my own (Los Angeles).
This Plays Into Trump’s Hand
But I’ll go a step further than Gary this morning and directly wade into political territory. Stuff like this helps Donald Trump. People lose their jobs, people lose their rides, they have to deal with the taxi mafia, and they blame the city council, the majority of which has a “D” by their name. The result is more outrage, which fuels Trump’s ascent. The ultimate result is the destruction of democratic norms by a man who only cares about himself and now openly threatens to jail his opponents, something even Vladamir Putin is not so brazen about.
It is a scary time in the United States and the incendiary and narcissistic language of the pol who is currently running ahead in the polls is fueled by foolishness like the actions of the Minneapolis City Council.
In any case, House Republicans in Minnesota are proposing a bill that would pre-empt the Minneapolis City Ordinance and negotiate directly with rideshare companies over rates. I don’t expect Uber and Lyft will pull out…the threat to do so has already proved a powerful tool for bringing state actors to the table. It worked in Washington State and will likely work here. And drivers will still come out ahead because a compromise will be reached.
CONCLUSION
Lyft and Uber are threatening to pull out of Minneapolis on May 1, 2024 unless the City undoes its recent wage ordinance for drivers. I am predicting a compromise will be reached, but Minneapolis did workers no favors through its recent actions.
I guess I gave myself away, but the issue for me is not specifically Uber or Lyft in Minneapolis. It is misguided regulation by politicians that hurt the very people they intend to help and embolden an outrage movement that fuels candidates like Donald Trump to rise to power. The stakes are a lot higher than how we will travel between home and the airport.
The state who has a terrorist sympathizer as a representative in the House won’t ever vote for the bad orange man. Ever.
You’re right, Fishbach is a terrorist sympathizer, voting against convicting the orange menace who staged an insurrection to overthrow an election.
Oh, I was referring to Ilhan Omar and her support of Hamas. I’m sure you’re not a mental midget to insinuate that the events of Jan 6th is somehow even 2% equivalent of Hamas terrorism the past few decades.
Even by your low low low standards, that is a dumb statement.
You are an “LBGTQ for Palestine” clown, and your sole contribution to BoardingArea is to bully and attack other commenters.
As always, your opinion is irrelevant, and will be ignored.
Not ashamed to be either LBGTQ or part Palestinian. Only a disgusting pig like you would make it seem like either is a negative quality in a person.
Not a bully, just calling out people’s BS like yours, Jan. Calling out people’s homophobia, racism, misogyny, etc doesn’t make one a bully. But I guess that is a variation of, say, the racist’s/homophobe/xenophobe/etc playbook – “I’m not a racist, you’re the racist for pointing out my racism!” – when you have nothing better to say.
Do you support Isreal? If so, your Also terrorist sympathizer. They are killing innocent kids and women every day. You support baby killing?
She doesn’t support Hamas but the innocent Palestinians who are being punished. I understand people of color are often ridiquoiled. But whats stupid we are asking for the release of a few for the many more that have died. Not worth the loss for a few Americans or others to have thousands of Men, women, and children to die. For what politics. Get right!
Making it the first insurrection in history to be waged with selfie sticks and bemused tourists.
Perhaps you’ve changed the definition of “insurrection” to mean “peaceful protest”? Then again, people like you often describe mobs of BLM rioters setting fires, destroying property, and committing assaults and murders as “peaceful protests”.
Man, it really takes a lot of doublethink to be a democrat.
And it takes a lot of hateful stupidity to be you.
Awe little Aaron, how are you?
Doing much better than you, you vile hateful troll lol
“insurrection”
No such thing happened.
Is “failed attempt at a violent coup” a better way to word it?
An insurrection with no plans and no weapons in broad daylight. My goodness you are naive. President Trump offered additional soldiers to Nancy but she turned them down. In addition in his speech he said peacefully assemble, but the capitol police started firing at the crowd. Do some research.
I have a hunch some more expensive options like Uber comfort or limo services will fill the gap for those who can afford it. You will still be able to get a pricey ride home after too much champers at the Minneapolis Club, Of course, ordinary people might not be able to afford the remaining services, and might lose their jobs as drivers, but politicians don’t care about them.
There’s a part of me that doesn’t think Uber/Lyft should even exist without the advent of self-driving cars (companies lose money year over year), but if cities in general care about their poorer population, they can and should build better subway/bus/transit systems. Legislating Uber/Lyft out of service is not the way, especially since the companies seem to want to do that financially to themselves.
They can maybe expand the light rail?
I mean idk, I’m sure it could be better (it wasn’t bad when I tried it)…
https://www.metrotransit.org/metro
…but there’s just a big, fundamental negative perception of public transport in America; not sure if that’s something that can be fixed by adding more public transport options
@Jan: is this a bad joke? Light rail has been the most corrupted project in the history of MN. It is already delayed by years and the budget to maybe one day finish it has skyrocketed. Also, ask anyone with any sanity if they will risk their lives riding in the Light rail. Only drug addicts and thugs in there. Nobody wants that and it a project doomed from the start.
LOL, I guess you would know better.
I only used the light rail a few times and I didn’t get the ick like I would at San Francisco’s BART (a bigger shitshow in a shithole of a city), for example. Or even some parts of the NY subway. Maybe because I was just in the airport area that I didn’t see the druggies.
@Jan: Also, there is no negative perception of public transportation if it works. The Light rail in MN does not. It connects nowhere to nowhere. Nobody wants to drive to a parking lot to take the Light rail. It is not like subway in NYC. Nobody lives close to the stations. Also, it takes forever so not really time saver. Check how much money has been dumped into this project and it will probably never be finished.
Ah you’ve gotten yourself a nice little case of Trump Derangement Syndrome there Matthew, but you actually make a good point. Trump is so popular precisely because of the idiotic, authoritarian, and corrupt policies of the democrats. Their hubris and viciousness means that only a fighter like Trump can effectively take them on.
But you are, as you are so often, wrong. Trump cares deeply about this country and its people, which is self evident to all but the most dense like yourself. That would explain why he governed so well and why we need him back after four years of incompetence and nepotism from the bumbling regime now in power.
The first part of your statement is largely accurate. The second part is laughable… Trump cares about exactly one person, Trump. Even his wives and kids come after his own self-interest.
Then please explain why Trump never enriched himself off his office like so many of our crooked “leaders”? Explain why his policies were so good for ordinary Americans? Also explain, with examples, of how he cares only about himself, despite doing so much good for the American people?
“never enriched himself” HA! Saudi Arabia and Jared Kushner – 2 billion dollars. All the $$ spent at the Trump Hotel and at Mara-lago. He did nothing for the American people. Nothing. But he says he did and ya’ll just believe him. He now proposes a 100% tariff on imported cars. You know pays that? the consumer pays it.
Trump never enriched himself? Looooolz that’s almost funny.
Well, he wants to bang, er, date Ivanka, so there is that.
Incest is YOUR specialty little Aaron, not Trump’s. Also, why is it that Trump is the only president in recent history whose net wealth DECREASED since he won the election?
Oh that’s an easy one. Because he’s a lousy businessman.
Attorneys are costly. Especially when you rape women, cause an insurrection, pay hush money, attempt to coerce election officials to overturn the people’s choice, commit tax fraud and the list goes on. It’s funny how fast wealth dissipates under these circumstances. And it’s going to get worse for him.
Well what can you say? Fighting a corrupt regime that uses the law to harass, intimidate, and ruin you with false charges is expensive.
Nah, dumb dumb Chi, I’ve never had a desire to date a family member, the way Trump publicly said he does with Ivanka. The stupid really is strong with you.
He’s so popular because of a lack of education in America. Simple. The founding fathers never imagined this, for that I am certain. And I am a moderate who would have gladly considered Nikki Haley if given a choice. Your comments are so off the wall that I am questioning if you actually believe what you write or are just stirring up the pot a bit for fun. I say this as I don’t think you are uneducated. Perhaps more misguided.
And you are utterly disconnected from reality, and ignorant. You are so full of TDS that you can’t even consider that a huge number of people have opinions contrary to your own. It’s quite sad.
I fully acknowledge people love Trump. And, as well, that they are stupid or misguided.
lol self awareness much?
Very much so. In fact, to a fault in some eyes.
As an example, I am fully aware that anyone defending gig workers getting full wages, insurance, etc is absurd. I am also cognizant of the fears that many have as to the far left craziness (as deeply disturbing as is the far right). The reality is that the majority of Americans are just like me, moderate and sick of this. At least the Dems keep their radical fringe in check. The Republicans cower in fear of their radical side and allowed them in the process to take control of a party that is not at all what it was. That is the difference. And why? Because in reality the majority of MAGA people are ignorant and uneducated. Or misguided. It’s probably 30% of the country. But enough that they took control of the Republican Party and are determined to shape it to their views of extreme. As if Trump will give them all a shotgun and a pickup truck come January 7th.
In fact, many times you agree with me in comments past. Why? Because I am practical and a moderate. I see the balance in both ideals. What I don’t see is Trump offering balance. He offers only fear. Because it’s the only chance he has to win. And that is not sustainable.
I also do not always agree with Biden. But at least he is old school and understands how our democracy works. It’s not always pretty. And it often is not in his favor. But he still works to find solutions in that process. And lately, in the most contentious and violent politics we have witnessed since the Civil War.
I am clearly not interested in changing your politics. I could care less. But at least respect that Trump is NOT the Republican Party. He is an imposter who used fear to control not just the party, but to alter our democracy. He will be an autocrat who will shift power in the world to his cronies like Putin. And enrich himself in the process. Give me a choice with Nikki Haley any day. That’s something I can actually reflect and look deeply into for a vote.
Also, the term TDS that you use. You know where it came from? Trump while President commenting that people who question his trust and respect for Putin suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome. That didn’t age well, did it?
See this is the point. You simply cannot see the obvious. Trump is now the new Republican party. The days of neocons, Bushes, and Romneys are gone. This new Republican party supports the middle and working class – those people you deride as stupid and uneducated. This is not because of Trump, it is because of the Leftists and their radical plan to impose their repulsive vision on America. A vision where any illegal can simply scam his way through the border, where nepotism and corruption reign supreme, and where anyone who dares stand up to them gets the crooked courts sicked on them.
You and your smug, nasty attitude is every reason we have chased people like Haley out of this party, and good riddance to you.
So, tell me, what has your neocon Trump Maga whatevers done for the working class? Or plan to? I’m super curious.
Will you give them a pick up truck and a gun on January 7th as a thank you? Will you proclaim to them that the immigrants are now gone and all landscaping, farming, and hotel housekeeping jobs are now open for them? Will you give them tax breaks, as much as you want for the wealthy, and turn away as their roads and bridges crumble? Will you protect them from gun violence that you actually support? Will you shun all Unions so as to protect the middle class? Will you weaken our national defense to give the middle class a world in which autocrats like Putin and Xi make the global decisions? Will you teach our middle class that NATO and our closest allies are our enemies?
I guess I’m confused. You give me a general statement. How about concrete. I want to be informed as to what the middle class will get. Besides what they have now which is the best employment numbers in decades and an economy that is humming beautifully.
Lol if what you say about the economy is true, then why does the Biden Regime have record low approval numbers? Apparently the people don’t believe the gaslighting.
You didn’t answer my question. In classic MAGA fashion you never respond to a sincere question as I do. You just divert to the next talking point amidst a checklist of absurdity,
‘
But guess what, I will answer yours until you run out of diversions. Why is Biden polling so low?
1. Every incumbent polls low at this point. While perhaps not THIS low it is normal nonetheless.
2. Israel. Far left idiots will scream and shout about Gaza etc. Though Biden has balanced this horrible situation well In the end they will wake up and come around to the alternative.
3. Ageism. Biden is old. No doubt. And the Democratic Party relies on youth. But at the start of a campaign the youth are often fickle. I believe they will rise when they wake up and realize what the hell is happening. And the alternative.
4. Women. Suburban women hold their cards close. But they are pissed off. Trust me. That is the one that will haunt the Republicans for generations. And you know full well why.
5. Nostalgia is only as good as the past. In the end more people will realize they are doing pretty damn good these days in retrospect.
There, you have it. I still await anything concrete from you.
What is the point of responding to your sarcastic, condescending talking points Stuart? His tax cuts weren’t for the wealthy, you completely ignored the Border crisis that has flooded our country with 8 Million illegals in 4 years. I don’t see Biden rebuilding any infrastructure, and if you will recall, Putin never dared attack Ukraine, or any other country, while Trump was in office. Demanding NATO countries pay their commitments is not making them an enemy.
So you see, all of these little points of yours are built on false premises and therefore not worth wasting any time in responding to, other than pointing out this obvious fact for a simpleton like yourself. And you are wrong about Biden as well. He is hated because:
1. The terrible economy, which is NOT humming along nicely for ordinary people thanks to Biden-induced inflation
2. His Self-inflicted border crisis that has let to the invasion by 8 million illegals, and he does NOTHING
3. His disastrous foreign policy, which has led to War in Ukraine and a humiliating loss of Afghanistan
4. He is indeed old and suffering dementia. It shows on a nearly daily basis whenever he is in an uncontrolled environment. He belongs in a skilled nursing facility, not the White House.
Your talking points are hilarious. The same ones from Fox and Hannity who are getting embarrassed daily.
1. Trump lowered taxes for some. The tax reforms were very old school Republican and less about Trump. The reality is though that we now see how irresponsible they were in the long run. It fueled investment, yes. But it also fueled a hefty price tag on the deficit. The billionaires should have been made to pay more. Most actually want to!
2. His border policy was first trying to remove many of the inhumane fails of the Trump administration. I agree, he went too far. I think he will even agree with it. But the border crisis has always been there. It could be argued that recent surges have more to do with the growing economy, plentiful jobs, and the rise of violence in poorer countries around the world. Regardless, he proposed and was ready to sign off on a Republican plan to tighten the border. He acknowledged his plan wasn’t working. He was prepared to fix it. But MAGA Republicans blocked it so as to have something, anything for Trump to run on. I guess it wasn’t so important after all.
3. Afghanistan was a never ending war. One that would cost billions and many more American lives. President’s make hard decisions. Even unpopular ones. He was the first to have the courage to put an end to it. The only reason Republicans didn’t like it is because they didn’t have the courage to do the same. Our military is now stronger and better prepared as a result of not being bogged down there….for what end? There was no end. And Ukraine???? You actually blame this on Biden? LMAO. I would love to know your reasoning for that to give me a good laugh on a cold Tuesday.
4. He is old, yes. But he gets shit done. He is an awful orator, no doubt. So what? He surrounds himself with smart people. He listens to ideas. He executes them, or tries until MAGA works to block him from anything that would actually benefit the American people, often pieces of legislation that were drawn up in a bi-partisan way. Sure, I would prefer a Newsom who would blow the roof off with his speaking skills, but Biden has been and will be as effective. Especially given the outrageous civil war within The House going on. Give me an old man with a stutter over a deranged old man who spent his life as a grifter, rapist, and incessant liar any day. And who gave rise to a deadly and bloody insurrection on our nation.
Oh, and Inflation. Y’all just love this one. And refuse to acknowledge that inflation is a global issue right now, not an American one. It has nothing to do with Biden. In fact, he has done more than any leader globally to address it. The reality is that many of the Covid period Trump policies ended up fueling this .As well the war in Ukraine. It’s the silliest of all of your MAGA talking points. And very uneducated.
Basically all of this boils down to a series of excuses and gaslighting on your part. Either these problems aren’t Biden’s fault or badly executed. It looks like classic deflection and cope to avoid the fact that none of what I mentioned would have happened under a better leader, namely Trump.
Trump is popular for the same reason that Jim Jones was popular.
And Bernie Sanders thinks they should only be working 32 hours a week so it’ll cost even more.
Is there a Democrat on Earth that ever took Econ 101?
@cairns
Let’s get things cleared up a bit. Bernie is an Independent. And Warren Buffet is a free thinking Democrat that attended Wharton, so I am sure he passed Econ 101. The 32 hour work week won’t go anywhere as the same with Uber and Lyft.
Bernie is worse than a democrat, he’s a literal socialist
@ Jan.
Seriously he “identifies” as a socialist democrat. We wish he did not.
Hehe. He’s garbage either way
You are my friend and my foe. But you do give good snark
I don’t think you’re a foe :[
Nothing wrong with being a socialist democrat.
No one is forcing them to drive, but they likely can’t find other work. It’s not unreasonable for them to expect money for their car + expenses + profit for the work they do instead of it being siphoned off to the CEO and shareholders.
Imagine if Amex called you up. Matthew, please write a blog post highlighting the amazing Platinum card. We will pay you $1.29 for each affiliate sign up. Your response: last week I was getting $100 per sign up, why is it now 1.29?
This is how Uber works. They were doing the work for more money before and the company just pulls out the rug over and over again. The drivers were making decent money so they were reactant to invest in acquiring skills that are valuable to employees. Shouldn’t they have some kind of protections? Why should Uber keep all the money?
And if I was only getting $1.29 per sign-up, I might not write such posts and use my time elsewhere…then again, I’ve written about cards long before I had affiliate links. My blog is also geared toward helping readers, not enriching the owner.
People in Minnesota are so done with the Minneapolis City Council. They are a cancer to the city but unfortunately dumb people still vote for them. Nobody is forced to drive for Uber or Lyft or to use their services. It is a free economy, I mean until now. Don’t like what what you get paid? Don’t work for them? It is the basics if supply and demand. But Democrats don’t understand that and feel they have the right to interfere in people’s lives. The users of the service will be the ones losing at the end. Also, Minneapolis has a huge demand for ride services during events and weekends since it is a safe way to be able to drink and not drive. This will probably increase the number of crazy people driving around.
Damn those losers who expect a livable wage from a rigged system that has been PR’d into a “free economy” lolz
Coming from a loser and sucker like you that comment was expected. Nobody is forcing anyone to drive for Uber or Lyft. But you and the losers love control. Kudos for Uber and Lyft from moving out of the cesspool of Minneapolis.
Coming from an oligarch’s cabana boy like you, that response isn’t too unexpected as well. Nobody is forcing anyone to work for anyone, but a guaranteed livable wage isn’t that shocking of a request.
Also, if Minneapolis is such a cesspool, why are you still there? Makes us wonder who the real loser is…I mean, in your own words, nobody is forcing you to live there lol After all, you are God’s gift to business…
LOL! I don’t live in Minneapolis. Nobody that has a brain lives there. I live in Minnesota.
And yet, you speak like you have first hand knowledge on the city…strange, that.
The suggestion that the likes of Uber have anything to do with the free market is naive at best. They are the product of years of reckless monetary policy in the US (no other conditions would have permitted a company to continue operations after years of such monumental losses), as well as the lobbying environment in that country which has contributed to them being able to influence the right people in order to benefit from flexible legislation which wouldn’t have applied in the cases of other/previous attempts at competition with taxis.
Whether or not one is happy with the status quo, the barriers to entry to that market are still pretty high, and the fact that the period of 0% interest rates is now over means that selling below cost with a view to driving competitors out of the market is unlikely to work again- and that’s why you now drive to the airport.
“Citing studies that such wages are unsustainable”
Ie, less profit for those at the top…
An example (hypotehtical).
Current price to airport or Uber Eats $40.
New price $60.
It’s just not worthwhile any longer for many folks.
People stop using Uber.
Resturants make less money.
Drivers make no money.
Uber makes no money.
City gets no tax revenue.
Who wins?
Look no further than Seattle. Orders for Uber eats have tanked since the wage law took effect. Drivers are making way less money even though their hourly pay is higher.
You’re assuming that the rise in wages has to come from higher prices. As opposed to, hypothetically less money for management.
But they’ve convinced you that is the only way employees can get better wages…
Wow. Just wow. I haven’t read any posts of yours that were so myopic before and it’s a little disturbing. I’m not saying that I agree with the new level of pay but have you actually researched the reasoning behind the decision and what information was provided that might disagree with your assertion? You come across as a person who doesn’t have to worry about a living wage themselves but poo poos it for others.
You might not agree (and are welcome to clarify why), but myopic is not a reasonable assessment.
I suppose myopic may have been a bit much. Apologies.
“Citing studies that such wages are unsustainable, Lyft and Uber say they are pulling out.”
Do you really think that the city council just pulled their numbers out of a hat? I’m going out on a limb here but I’m supposing that they had some valid study on the matter rather than relying solely on Uber’s reports. Based on the premise of the council actually having looked at opposing ideas and studies, they’re trying to make for a reasonable minimum standard of living. Given Uber’s well-deserved record of rapacious greed if I have to side with the MSP city council or Uber and Lyft, I’m going to go with the city every time.
Economically speaking, I don’t have the decades of education and experience to accurately gauge whether either company will pull back from the city and unless I’m mistaken neither do you. We can make some guestimates but that’s about it.
I, like you, am fortunate enough that I don’t have to worry about personally attaining a living wage. That doesn’t mean I don’t sympathize heartily with the poor schmucks getting increasing hosed by the rideshare companies they work for every year and lack viable employment options. I think it’s incumbent on society to support our people on the lowest levels of the socioeconomic spectrum for altruistic, patriotic, and personal greed perspectives. The short term fallout of this proposed increase is comparatively small but overall this proposal would disproportionately help those who need it most.. In short, it’s the right thing to do, and if Uber leaves the city, another company will come in.
Since when did gig work become a career? To me an Uber driver is simply bridging time until an actual job comes along. I have never heard anyone aspiring to a life as an Uber driver. Students, newly arrived immigrants, in-between jobs people, people looking to make extra cash on weekends etc, and retirees are your primary source for drivers. Most are probably just fine making what they can in an interim. Black car drivers perhaps can have a long standing career as they do fairly well. I have used the same one in DC for years. He owns a home and supports a family. He has built a steady clientele BUT he also will turn on Uber during slow periods of the day and pick up some extra cash as well. Again, everyone is just bridging the gaps…which is why it’s called gig work, lol.
Let’s set the scene. You are a recent immigrant from Haiti. You have recently received employment authorization and start to work as an Uber driver. You are making $1200 weekly after expenses and have decided to rent an apartment for $1000/month and purchase a vehicle with monthly payments of $500 so that you can continue to earn this $1200 weekly until the day when the federal government decides to give you a 120k job with a pension.
Suddenly, Uber cuts your pay to increase profits and now you are making $600/week. You talk to your landlord about a rate reduction, but they don’t care. You fall behind on car payments and then lose the car. You go on USAJobs and try to get one of these pension jobs that pay 12ok but don’t qualify based on lack of education.
Why shouldn’t drivers have fixed rates of pay? Why should pay just go down and down and down while all of Washington DC has cushy government jobs where they provide little for society?
You cherry picked one of my examples. In fact, recent immigrants by my calculus of using Uber nearly every day make up a vast minority of the drivers. I always engage in conversation with them, it’s fun, and most will tell you it’s a second job for them (other than black car drivers) that helps them make some fun money on the side. That includes many of the recent immigrants I talked to. They work during the day and drive Uber a few hours at night or on weekends. That is exactly why the market pay is what it is. Anyone who has an expectation of full time employment doing it is a fool. It was NEVER meant to be a career or full time job. Everyone I talk to (other than black car drivers) tell me it’s a second gig for them.
How about working for the many companies that pay a minimum wage and includes health insurance and other benefits? Many immigrants here work for Costco, Target, Walmart and they are all hiring. Nobody is forced to work for Uber if they don’t like their business model.
Except minimum wage is barely enough for people to survive.
@Stuart: Last week in SF I requested a Uber X to go from a restaurant back to my hotel. A maybe 25yo girl arrived on a brand new Mercedes. We engaged in a conversation and she said she was the owner of the car. I asked why a girl like her driving a Mercedes would want to drive for Uber. She said she sometimes got bored of staying at home at night so that was a way for her to get out and still make money. Yes, she didn’t look like someone that needed to get a minimum wage.
I agree, it’s most of them I talk to. The same with door dash deliveries. I can’t understand why anyone is obsessing about all of this. If I had a Monday-Friday job and was making, say, $50K a year, I would gladly drive a few hours a week for a little extra cash. That’s all it’s meant to be! This is complete idiocy. Since when did “Gig” become “Career” for any of these people. It’s complete fiction.
MAGA’s willing to argue with other Republicans just proves how bad the party has gotten. You literally are arguing with someone that agrees with your statements on Democrats!
And yet when Trump inevitably loses again it must be rigged…
This is a good example of why anecdotal evidence is sometimes useless.
“What this fool is saying is that if these workers cannot earn what he deems a livable wage, they do not deserve the opportunity to work.”
I don’t think that is what he is saying…
That is the direct practical impact.
No, it isn’t.
What he is saying is that these workers want to work, and deserve to, but want to do so for a livable wage.
This is what you normally say…”if a business can’t afford to pay its employees a “living wage” then it shouldn’t be in business!”
Which means, that certain businesses wouldn’t exist at all and therefore have no owners or employees.
Or maybe what constitutes a living wage is something that is not fixed at a certain level.
Absolutely.
A business should pay its employees what they think the job and the employee are worth.
And local/regional factors should certainly contribute to that wage scale.
The idea that a low skill role should be paid as much as a high skill role is something that makes no sense,
But that’s also why we now have kiosks at McDonald’s.
That last point is quite telling, isn’t it? Walk into so many fast food eateries today and you see kiosks, not people.
“The idea that a low skill role should be paid as much as a high skill role is something that makes no sense,”
Nobody is saying that. Livable doesn’t mean the same as a high skilled wage.
Also, in the MsDonald’s example, it’s just another way for them to lower costs by making you do the work of someone else for free.
No, it just means they should pay people a livable wage.
Thank you for proving that you have absolutely NO IDEA how economics or free markets work.
Probably just as good of an idea as you do.
I think that the author doesn’t understand completely how Uber pays drivers and why there is a need for there to be fixed rates. All that is needed is for drivers to know what they will be making so that they can plan their work accordingly.
Currently, the pay rates for drivers fluctuate based on what Uber’s algorithm decides to pay them. One day LAX to West Hollywood will pay $30 and the next day it will pay $12. If the driver has already committed to working it is difficult for them to really have any consistent income, and that is important in a job where you have to pay for vehicle expenses and taxes.
I am not sure if the numbers that Minneapolis wants to pay are reasonable or not, but it is reasonable to have fixed rates for driving jobs so that workers can have a sense for how to manage their profitability.
No, it’s not. Every driver has the option of accepting or rejecting a ride before embarking on the journey. There is no coercison.
@Matthew , the belief that suppliers have freedom of choice is effectively an illusion when it comes to an oligopsony situation. Either the contract is between the driver and the end user, in which case the driver should be free to set/negotiate their rate (as do taxi drivers wherever meters aren’t used), or alternatively the contract is between the app and the end user, in which case the app is entitled to set the rate and the driver would be entitled to the minimum hourly wage and other employment protections. The Supreme Court of the UK has seen through the posturing of Uber and settled on a position that’s pretty close to employment – one can only wonder why that’s not happening in the USA.
Perhaps because the UK has an economy smaller now than Mississippi and they need to define Uber as employment to keep much of their population working. The UK is not the US.
The reasons for the state of the UK economy have absolutely nothing to do with the way it’s been treating the likes of Uber. And there’s a very important similarity with the US in that both countries are on an unsustainable trajectory when it comes to government debt.
No it doesn’t. Nor did I state that. The decision on Uber in the UK is a RESULT of the economy there. Not a cause, lol.
And as far as debt, we are far better at it in the U.S. It’s the driving force of much of the economy. Though I agree there needs to be a better balance. That is that uber (no pun intended) wealthy and corporations need to start paying their share properly.
Not sure what you are smoking, nor do I want any part of it, but the UK does not have a smaller economy than Mississippi. Not. Even. Close.
@ Steven
Respectfully, this has been a major story for a few years. It actually is correct, depending on how nuanced you want to work the numbers. But do you really want to work the numbers in comparison to Mississippi? The reality is, the UK, outside of London, is abysmal from an economic standpoint.
I love the UK, so don’t get me wrong. And I respect our special relationship. But still…
Read this: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/britain-mississippi-economy-comparison/675039/
So @Stuart , is it common for self-employed people in the USA to not be able to negotiate their rates? How does that help the economy as a whole?
How many of Trump’s opponents did Trump jail during his first presidency?
There’s only one president (current or former) trying to jail their opponent and it isn’t Trump.
I’m sure if Biden instigated an insurrection, threatened his VP, called election officials in different states to coerce them to overturn the election results, continuously lie that an election was stolen, raped women, and committed tax fraud that both parties would be calling for him to be jailed. Only because Republicans now (not before) have no values left is it keeping him out of jail.
1. When was he convicted of “insurrection”? (You should travel to a country sometime that has had a REAL insurrection….you know, like with guns)
2. Bill Clinton
3. Like Stacey Abrams? (STILL thinks she is GA’s Governor)
4. Bill Clinton (rape)
5. Joe, Jim & Hunter (tax fraud)
6. Supporting torching of American cities….”values” (the democrat party)
Oh Chris, I am sure I have traveled to far more places than you. And have witnessed so much more than you can imagine.
Let me use bullet points in response to yours. Though I prefer not to weaponize my responses, lol.
1. That is still up for discussion. And you know full well that if Biden had done what Trump did on January 6th he would be banned from politics, ostracized from his own Democratic Party and probably in jail now. It’s not my fault that Republicans live in fear of MAGA now. We are all just victims of the old line Republicans having no balls.
2. Bill Clinton what? I have no idea what this correlates to. I don’t recall that he incited a mob to kill his VP.
3. Stacey Abrams? Last time I checked she has spent the last years working within the Democratic Party and helping to bring out the vote to underprivileged black areas in Georgia. So now working for a party to get more voters to come out is the same as supporting an insurrection? Hmm….
4. Bill Clinton raped Lewinsky? Really? I don’t recall that ever being in discussion. Or perhaps you live in a parallel universe? Seemed pretty consensual to me. Nor did he brag about grabbing women by the “….. ” Clinton may have been a womanizer, but he was at least understanding of the boundaries. Furthermore, if that matters so much to you, why is Trump paying off porn stars hush money not an issue within your morals? Honestly, I don’t care who any President screws. I do care though if they rape them.
5. Hunter? And how is that case going? Based on a rogue informant who has now been completely discredited. I guess you don’t follow the news much? Even The House is giving up on that, lol.
6. I agree with you on this. We can stand in solidarity that there is never reason to riot to the point of destruction. Nor should anyone ever support or encourage it. Not that I disagree with the anger. Just the release of it towards more violence.
CHRIS,
How many retiring presidents ordered the front White House door locked against their replacement? Or maybe you were drinking more orange Kool-Aid?
Oh is this like the reaching over the backseat to the steering wheel story? The USSS has been on record NUMEROUS times stating that the “Beast” has an impermeable partition between the front and back seat.
No CHRIS
This was the instruction through Trump’s valet to the chief White House Usher. And remember through the last campaign he wanted Hillary locked up. I wish nothing more in my life than our citizens can be reunited.
Matthew, you make an Uber/ Lyft issue political? Trump wanting to lock up people? Really? Biden and his army of corrupt Justice and FBI officials, DA’s, judges, and the blind supportive legacy media are the ones crying out to lock up and succeeding to lock up people. Too bad you drink the TDS Kool-Aid Matthew. Hope it tastes good. I never thought the once mighty USA would become a banana republic.
I think Matthew knows what he’s doing. Engagement go brrrrr
It certainly will become one if Trump gets re-elected this year, that’s for sure.
Matthew, your travel posts are excellent. Stay out of politics, period.
“What this fool is saying is that if these workers cannot earn what he deems a livable wage, they do not deserve the opportunity to work.” You sound like a Roman Emperor explaining why he won’t free his slaves.
LMAO! It’s a “gig” job, silly. Not slavery. Omg, are you people for real?
Tjay.
How old are you? Do you not remember trump clapping to ” lock her up (Hillary) when he ran?
You people defending the Minneapolis “fair wage” policy are the reason that Trump has a real chance of winning in November. Pathetic.
Not at all, actually. Unemployment rate in Minneapolis is ~3%. Average in America is 3.9%. So by the simple logic of “jobs are what make people happy” that is being utilized for Trump votes that cannot be the case.
If that is all it took then why don’t we repeal child labor laws, laughable minimum wages, and the like for more votes.
Very few are defending the wage increase. I imagine, corporations and local government will work it out. And that is how it should be. Trump supporters, democrats or independent voters are unlikely to be swayed by this wage argument. The bloodbath and other trumpian issues will motivate citizens to decide.
With all due respect, Matthew, if Trump wins in November, it’s not going to be because anyone made a rational decision after carefully considering how policy decisions affect them personally. It’s going to be because they see all of the racism and exhortations to violence and persecution of marginalized groups coming out of the MAGA movement… and they like it.
I think it’s unfair to call 45% of the country racist…we have to come together in some way and forge concensus in order to make progress.
If it’s not race, it’s sexual orientation or gender identity or religion. The whole movement is driven by fear of the Other, and they are making it quite clear what they want to do to the Other. Hatred is at the center of the MAGA movement. They do not have any policies; there is only a desire to lift up the white Christian nationalists who make up their base by stomping everyone else down. Trump himself says so much at his rallies with talk of vermin poisoning our blood and bloodbaths. And his crowd cheers. So yes, there is a real possibility that 45% of the country is bigots.
Yeah, Matthew’s forte is traveling and travel related stories, not politics.
Trump really should change his slogan to MAWACA.
Good. Minneapolis sucks and nobody should travel to or spend money in that sh*thole. How’s the East Lake Street area doing these days? Oh let me guess it’s the safest place in the city.
I quite enjoyed my last visit. I stayed at the new Four Seasons and enjoyed walking around the area it has gentrified in the process. I even bought a new hoodie at LuLu Lemon shop down the street and enjoyed a stroll along the river. It’s actually a lovely city. Do try the restaurant in the Four Seasons, they do a fantastic Turkish Manti that I still am craving months later.
Fuel Trumps rise? Really? Ask the taxi drivers who have been driven to bankruptcy and suicide since the advent of Uber and Lyft if they are sorry to see these tech companies leave. These tech companies are a race to the bottom that is destroying jobs with benefits.
Clearly you never rode in a taxi in most U.S. cities. Disruption is painful, yes. But the world of taxis prior was asking for it. Capitalism can be cruel to those who take you for a ride in roach infested smelly and falling apart vehicles. And demand cash for it.
Clearly you never rode in a taxi in most U.S. cities. Disruption is painful, yes. But the world of taxis prior was asking for it. Capitalism can be cruel to those who take you for a ride in roach infested smelly and falling apart vehicles. And demand cash for it.
As another resident of SoCal Matthew, I hope you rage as much about forthcoming electric rates for the majority of Californians being based on income vice usage. Yep, coming this summer. Of course, since municipal owned utilities were exempt from the law, you may not see an increase in LA. All brought to most everyone by our “progressive” Democratic legislature. You can complain about Minneapolis, but our state surpasses that stupidity on a much grander scale. And I didn’t even mention the high speed rail (to nowhere) project.
Hey Matt, did Don Jr ever take you up on your offer to book travel for him?
Ha. Nope.
I see what the new proposed rates are but how do these compare to standard, non-Uber taxi fares in Minneapolis? It’s difficult to judge these claims without that critical piece of information.
By way of example, Uber is a fairly recent addition to Barajas airport but they’re still a bit cheaper than regular caps and don’t impose a €30 minimum/flat fare for journeys starting from MAD.
Well said Matt. I skipped the comments since I can already predict the exact arguments everyone will make after all these years.
But Trump is the symptom, not the disease. The more crazy stuff progressives promote the more fuel they give Trump and his supporters.
I’ve always leaned conservative on economics and foreign policy and liberal on social issues. I loved Obama while disliking his foreign policy and appreciated the John McCains and Bushes for their consistency and willingness to reach across the aisle when needed.
Neither party appeals to me anymore. One has been hijacked by Trump. The other by the extreme progressives. Time for a 3rd party.
Just curious, but why is being progressive a bad thing?
“The very people the City Council set out to “help” ‘.
There is virtually no part of the government anywhere in the USA that genuinely cares about the people and improving the country. It’s all about the government critters’ wallet. That’s all that matters
Nice job insulting nearly 20 Million people who work for varying Government departments in the U.S. Most of whom take pride in their work and are helping to better people’s lives. The vast majority care and want to make this nation better. Sure, a few do as you say. But you choose to throw everything and everyone under the bus out of spite to the few that riled you up.
I say again, turning “liveandletsfly” into a political rant will ruin this fine travel blog. I should say, is ruining this travel blog.