Our time in Germany was sweet as always. The thing is that I could have this life…it wasn’t just a vacation considering I continued to work most days. But is it the right time? Is it the right move?
More Than Vacation: A German Life I Could Get Used To…
Although we usually venture out for a few days here and a few days there, we base our trips to Germany in a small border city with Switzerland and France in the Black Forrest.
Here, the air is fresh, the hills are green, and life is a bit simpler than in California.
As always, during our trip we enjoyed lovely coffee…
…and ice cream.
But there’s more than that. There’s grocery stores filled with fresh food, gyms, and delectable restaurants. There’s parks and trails…and castles.
For someone who works from home (me), the quality of life in Germany may not be higher than in LA, but would cost a lot less.
There’s even Basel Airport which is just 20 minutes away, so it’s not like I’d have to go far to fly out.
It is not my intention to paint life in a smaller German city as overly-idyllic, but there is something so nice about being able to walk into town or walk into nature and enjoy the best of both worlds.
Central Europe Time is great for blogging…but not so great for Award Expert, in which most clients are in the United States and which most work and communication takes part in the latter part of the day.
Would I ever want to live in Germany? Oh yes. On a full-time basis? Probably not. I’m fond of Los Angeles too and as a lifelong Angeleno (with breaks in Washington DC, Philadelphia, and Frankfurt), it will always be attractive. Much of my family, church, and network of closest friendships are all in Southern California.
But I do hope for a day in which we can summer in Germany and spend the rest of the year in Los Angeles (or perhaps somewhere else in the States…we’ll see).
And of course it’s not my decision alone. Heidi is a big part of any choice of where we live. Any decision will be a mutual decision based on a number of factors.
She desires more time in Germany too, but nursing in Germany is not respected as in the the USA. Pay is significantly lower and if you are a nurse or know a nurse you know it is hard work…not something you want to do for menial wages (which is one reason Germany has such a nursing shortage).
CONLCUSION
I suppose my point here is that I always love my time and Germany. But unlike many places I go too, enjoy, but happily leave after a couple weeks, Germany is different…Germany is really a place that beckons me toward a more permanent stay.
Do you have somewhere in the world that you strongly consider spending a lot more time in?
I would give almost anything to be able to move to Berlin
Why Berlin?
I like the history, the vibe and the grittiness as well as my best friend lives there.
The transportation system is fantastic and there’s no need, for the most part, a car.
I’m especially fond of the Prenzlauer Berg area.
Well, then, just to play Devil’s Advocate, why don’t you? You probably have the ability, means, drive, desire, gumption. So why not make Berlin yours?
I can’t speak for the OP’s reasons, but as someone who briefly worked in Germany, getting the required residency permits isn’t easy. And you don’t want to violate the 90-day Schengen rule.
You are right about that.
Sadly, I don’t have German citizenship, but I do have permanent residency.
Did you get it via your marriage?
Yes.
Love this, especially the “rainy” pictures.
A decade ago, my daughter was in Foreign Student Exchange program and signed up for a three week summer experience in Stuggart, Germany. She did not have a fond memory of such experience, even the host family objected to the way she was treated by high schoolers in the area. Germans are unfriendly toward unilingual Americans. However, they found her an exception compared to other typical Americans, due to her different upbringing, conduct, behavior and thought process. I had personal contacts with mainly East Germans three decades ago. Things have changed over the decades so my experiences might be obsolete in today’s changing Germany. But if I lived in Europe for a long time, except in UK, I’d definitely be trilingual. When I retire, I hope to house sit around the world to get a more authentic flavor and knowledge of the host countries via mingling with the locals
>But if I lived in Europe for a long time, except in UK, I’d definitely be trilingual.
No, you would not. Americans fundamentally lack the intellectual curiosity to understand European culture, let alone languages.
You think you speak conversational French when you’ve learned 5 words. You yell over people in restaurants. You speak loudly in public, because you think the world revolves around you.
Then you start lecturing us, the indigenous people of our own countries, about we should feel bad for the ills mainly committed by … Americans.
Stay home. We don’t want you here.
Gesundheit
But look how easily you learned the language of Troll. Though not so well.
Lol.
Ecoute, mon ami! Some of the most intellectually stimulating people I’ve had the pleasure to meet were mutli-lingual North American citizens (USA, CAN). They’re always welcome here in Europe. Du solltest lieber nach Mar-ar-Lago umziehen, da findest du eher dein Zuhause und es wird vielleicht bald leerstehen, so dass du es dann in Ruhe genießen kannst…..Ciao!
One rule of thumb I give to my Euro travel partner(s) is : “Don’t be the Ugly American. Let someone else have that distinction”. Yet, the only issue I ever had while in Europe was with a loud, drunk, raucous, Brit!! Now I understand why those on the Continent were happy to see the UK out of the EU!!
As for language, learning a few local words does goes a long way. However, I have found the Central Europeans (Poland, Czech Rep) speak English better than the Americans!!! And they’re as curious about you as you are about them. And for God’s sake, don’t refer to them as Eastern Europeans or mention the Russians!! If in doubt, see rule #1 above.
One additional rule that I would recommend to any North American who wants to live in Europe is to learn how to handle a stick shift. A lost art in North America, but still a fundamental skill in Europe. The times I have been issued an automatic rental car in Europe have been the worst.
Most culture is a product of the surrounding environment. Big fat cars in North America due to an abundance of oil in the ground while Euro cars are much smaller as oil is a very precious and an expensive commodity. But thats the whole idea of living in another country, having an open mind to experience how the other half lives!!
Europeans wanting UK out of EU. Based on your reported encounter with one unsophisticated English speaker.
Based on every Euro I have talked to on the Continent.. each time I mentioned London or the UK, response has been to the effect of “ glade to see them go”.
May as well just put in the 5 years or so needed, get the citizenship, then go back to the US.
Matt’s story reminds me of the old jokes of the ideal country: British government, Polish food, American salaries and the worst country: American government, British food, and Polish salaries. There are typically tradeoffs that apply particularly at a stage in life. Having a good job in the states is a reason why I remain, but like Chopin, my heart is in Eastern Europe and I intend to retire either in Poland or Ukraine.
A couple non-controversial things to observe about Matt’s observations is that modern architecture is ugly and there’s just more of it in the states than in Europe. The USA was founded upon a celebration of modernity and “progress” and architecture is one aspect of progress that most of us aren’t happy with. NYC perhaps being the exception but then there’s the expression “A fun city to visit but you don’t want to live there.”
What also makes Europe desirable is walkability due to a culture of public transportation. When everyone is in cars like in the states, this reduces the incentive to provide for public transport particularly rail. Riding a train is like enjoying an amusement park ride even if it’s just to get from point A to B while riding a bus feels like a chore. Related to that is there’s a culture of manners surrounding public cordiality: People accustomed to riding on trains tend to lean over to talk, rather than just shout.
I regret never trying to do an overseas assignment either as a government worker. The perk of free housing is a huge bonus. My wife and I have enjoyed our trips to western Europe and we often go in the late fall or winter time when things are less crowded.
Now that I’m retired, I’m pondering taking an extended trip to Europe this fall and use various cities for an extended visit. Most likely parts of Germany, northern Italy, Austria and maybe Spain. Would like to do some short trips to places like Poland and Hungary.
In full ignorance of your situation:
May I suggest that Heidi looks into becoming a Physician Assistant? They’re becoming much more common in Germany these days, with much more responsibility and pay. Nursing pay and appreciation has also increased significantly following the pandemic. There are also positions in hospital administration (PDL) if she so desires which come with better pay and no shift work.
Also, if your goal is to have your children in public school, you should probably move them over here prior to them starting school because after that it will be difficult to integrate them – not least because they will be expected to be fluent in writing and speaking German (and German as second language programs aren’t that common at public schools over here, sadly) – if not, disregard. There are great IB and international schools here.
Thankfully, German is spoken at home and they are doing very well in a bilingual environment. I’m amazed at the miracle of language.
These are all good suggestions and one that Heidi and I have discussed – there are other paths. We will see!
While I appreciate you sharing this (and I can, sort-of, get where you come from), I just wanted to chip-in as a European that has spent the last 20 or so years both in the US and Europe. I’m also married to a Swede who spent a lot of years living in Boston and NYC.
For me, I would say that the pros of Germany – or any other place in Western Europe – would be:
– Generally more PTO, I’ve personally had jobs with 8+ weeks of paid vacation per year, and it’s not uncommon to get 1+ year’s of paid parental leave
– Easier and cheaper health care, pension, etc. I don’t have any private insurance and I pay roughly USD 20 per medical visit and have unlimited prescription drugs (incl free shipping) for USD 250 per year.
– Way more affordable child care, schools and universities (e.g. I got a MSc in finance at the best university in Sweden – SSE – for free, AND a monthly ”salary”/allowance while I studied, paid for by the state, without the need for any scholarships etc.)
– More walkable, IF you like that sort of thing.
– Better public transport, IF you like that sort of thing, or can’t afford a car.
The cons, however, are noticable:
– Generally significantly lower salaries for skilled labor, and much higher income taxes. I worked seven years for a company with offices both in the US and Europe, and the US managers made roughly 4-5x as much as their European counterparts. (Add in >50% income tax in Sweden.) I’m currently in process of switching jobs to a CEO position for a company with a MUSD 20 annual revenue and the salary will probably be roughly 100K per year pre-tax.
– Some costs are way higher, especially if you travel by car. I pay a ”congestion charge” of roughly USD 15 per day, plus parking of roughly USD 10 per hour, and if your car isn’t electric, expect to pay USD 1,000 per year in tax PLUS perhaps USD 8 per gallon. And don’t expect to be able to have a large, comfy car.
– You’re often ”forced” to use public transportation, which is horrible. Queues, cramped, loud, slow and either too cold or too hot. I detest it.
– The level of comfort is generally worse. Don’t expect to live in a large house. And you will probably not have AC, at least not a good AC. It’s also colder inside in the winter. This holds true for pretty much all places (homes, offices, stores, …). I mean, you don’t even get a real business class seat in intra-EU business class, and people here seems fine with it.
– My experience is that the people in Europe is often more rude and less friendly than your average American. I’ve visited all US states several times and I don’t think that I’ve been anywhere in the US where people are less friendly than your average Swede/German/etc.
– You can’t beat the US for variation in terms of natural wonders. I’ve been to almost all US national parks and it’s not possible to get that sort of experiences – at that level of comfort – here in the EU.
– I personally think that the hotels are worse in Europe, at least in terms of comfort.
From my perspective, it makes sense to live in Europe if you have several kids, or have a lower level of education. And/or if you dislike driving. However, if you enjoy driving, have a good education and prioritize comfort, many parts of the US will most certainly give you a way better, more comfy lifestyle. If I were to live in the US again, I wouldn’t pick LA (even though I’m going there in two weeks and love the place), but I would much, much rather live in a lot of places in the US than Germany or any other part of the EU. I just prefer the US lifestyle.
Very well said. I lived in Sweden for a couple of years and I will add that if I didn’t have to work or pay taxes I’d gladly live there again. I didn’t hate public transit but I was much younger then. I learned Swedish fluently and felt no animosity for being American, even when I wasn’t good at it. I agree also that there are better options in the US than LA…it’s nice to visit but if you’re free to live anywhere pick somewhere cheaper.
While our national leadership for much of the past 20 years leaves a lot to be desired there are certainly worse things to endure. And no matter what, find the local culture you enjoy most and live there! If it’s Germany then so be it. If it’s LA then go for it. I love where I live. I just got our above ground pool filled up yesterday on our beautiful 1/2 acre lot and enjoyed hearing several west coast to Europe planes fly high overhead (along with pulling out my phone to see who and where). Life is good in oh so many places…
The answer to the question is also based on language. If I were a native speaker, I could see living in Australia, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, UK, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, USA, and Canada. Maybe Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Luxembourg, France, Chile, or New Zealand.
Almost any other place in the world, and even more so Europe, is a far better place to live and raise children than Los Angeles, California. Definitely escape if you can.
Long time reader, first time commenter. American who is married to a German and has been living in Bavaria for parts of the last decade plus. It is now my primary home due to my wife’s job (with the government) and we also have a place in the Miami area as well. I think it is very easy and very common amongst travel bloggers (yeah, talking about Ben among others) to romanticize Germany in a way that I feel is … well, romantic and not realistic.
Having lived in Florida and the Los Angeles area almost exclusively until moving to Germany, except for my first nine years in the Boston burbs, I would leave here in a minute if we could. I thought this was near paradise when I first began visiting and then living here. But after a while reality set in.
Sure, we have the best bread in the world. And some great coffee too. The gelato is pretty terrific too, but having just returned from a trip to Italy, Spain and France, it’s better in those places. The weather absolutely sucks. Grey and gloomy so much of the time. And cold, but without the fairytale snow. People don’t know how to smile here. They are not friendly. And despite the fact that practically everyone here until 40 speaks English fluently, you sometimes get attitude when your German isn’t great and you need to communicate in English.
If I could move us back to Southern California tomorrow, I would. The diversity there is wonderful in everything from food to micro-climates to culture to people. In Germany, 95% of kids look like yours (not that they aren’t adorable and all, but I think you get where I am going).
Sure, life can be simpler here. And quality of life is valued more (that’s why I went from no health insurance in FL to German healthcare covering everything). But the pace is still tough and many things are not easy to get used to.. It can get slow and boring. Stores forced to close on Sundays and at 8 p.m. during the week. And I will never get used to paying for water everywhere and using a toilet at many places.
I also think on the travel end, you (and others) greatly overstate the quality of Lufthansa. I am sure it’s great in First Class, but as someone who is usually going to be in Economy and, occasionally in Business, that does nothing for me. In Business Class and lower, Lufthansa is absolutely consistently average. Like UAL average. You may never have a terrible experience, but you’ll never have a great experience either. I’ve done the 380 from FRA-SFO in Business (before the pandemic) and found the experience nice, but not special. And don’t get me started on DB … German rail is horrible. Pretty much every long distance/ICE experience has major delays or issues that have you running through stations and then pushing suitcases through coaches only to arrive at your seat and find someone else in it.
I guess what I am saying is I get the romance aspect of living here, but I’d rather be in a vibrant metro area like LA. Where I have the desert, mountains, beaches, Hollywood, Disneyland, Vegas, Yosemite, Sequoia, King’s Canyon, Santa Barbra etc etc all within hours. And a climate that is so much more liveable. The sun counts for a lot.
And did I say the people here aren’t very open to foreigners?
I’m worried you may fall in love with Poland, but consider visiting. There’s “Park Wodny” which has a wonderful water park, good, cheap dentistry, and “zatorland”.
I grew up in Germany and then lived for 20 years in Los Angeles. Now I am back in Germany for the last 2 years because my partner pursuaded me to do so. I just hate it here. Thank God, we still kept our house in Los Angeles and I go back for the winter. Los Angeles is a place that grows on you but you don’t realize how much until you try to leave. There is something relaxing in cruising along the Avenues and Boulevards and through the hills and even sitting in traffic.
How close is that village to Hinterzarten? We had an awesome vacation there…which came with a free railpass.
@ Matthew — Why would anyone want to leave Merica? I mean, we have such a great country, filled with wonderful Trump-loving people.
I say do it. Will be great for the kids. Especially learning a language. After 7 it’s so much harder to learn a second language.
We lived in chicago for 10 years (basically the kids whole life). Such a great experience.
And I agree on Germany. Such an underrated country.
A much better quality of life, I would assume. I would go for it if it’s practical for you. But then the “grass is always greener on the other side.” You can always try it out.
If you want to move to try it out, you need to do it soon, once your kids hit 11-12 years old, you are not going anywhere until they go to college
Especially for the kids. I would never raise kids in America. That’s probably one reason I didn’t have kids.
About 15 years ago, my company offered me a long-term (~3 year) expat assignment in India, which I accepted. My wife and I don’t regret for a second taking it. We will also never do such a thing ever again. There were a bunch of daily annoyances that weren’t a big deal individually, but cumulatively, they really grated on us over time, and we were dying to come home by the end of the assignment. The challenges you’ll face in Germany are obviously very different from India, but that’s the thing I’d tell you to be mindful of. It may seem idyllic, but there’s probably a whole laundry list of stuff you’re not thinking of (or have no idea that you should even be thinking of) that will annoy you and possibly make you regret a permanent move after a couple of years.
All good points, through I would say that I have already lived in Germany for 1.5 years and liked it and secondly that I would never sell my house in California to move to Germany. Not a chance. It would be both or not at all.
Will never dream of living in the country that instigated two world wars
One more thing for your kids: no active shooter drills in schools
Give it a try – we are not that bad and no you won’t pay thousands of taxes for your car unless you get an old V8/V12…
And if it doesn’t work you can always move back 😉
I absolutely loved living in Stuttgart from 2003-2011 and was “homesick” for a long time when I returned to northern Virginia. Fortunately, one daughter lives in Berlin permanently, so we return often. But, living there is better than visiting.
The grass is always greener on the other side. Living in Germany is annoying as well, just differently.
Another big factor – university education for the kids. In Germany it’s essentially free – in the US not so much. I learned too late that German universities are desperate to increase their diversity to the point that they even have programs for English-only speakers… So, it was the UC system for my kids – not too bad either, I must say…
I really like of the rainy place good waither work with good peoples I want to come here
Have made more trips to Germany than anywhere else outside the USA, so it would probably top my list.
Another place that has caught my eye as a possible “long-visit” locale is Puerta Vallarta.
Germany does have some downsides depending on your life goals. Socially, women are often discouraged from pursuing full time careers after having children. While it’s a more egalitarian society, culturally they favor tradition. But if you’re into having a nuclear family, the public services and support structures are favorable.
Overall a nice place.
This woman lives in Germany and thinks it’s not so good. She cites racism and high taxes.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/i-moved-to-germany-and-regret-it-i-ve-felt-unwelcome-by-the-people-and-not-even-the-great-healthcare-can-convince-me-to-stay/ar-AA1ctHOa?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=6d0fcd983b5549db8e723cc0d75aca7d&ei=9
I wonder what Matthew thinks about her comments?
Hi Matthew,
I think this is something particular about Southern Germany / Bayern / Oesterreich. There’s a particular catholic culture that is quite family and community focused. I certainly notice a difference in Germany if I’m somewhere further north (Frankfurt ad Main, Berlin etc).