It goes without saying that there are far more important issues going on today than my Air France ticket. Still, consider this a diversion.
As feared, Air France has re-issued my A380 and 777-300 tickets, knocking me out of first class and placing me into business class.
Historically, when Air France claims a “mistake” fare it just cancels tickets. Instead, I simply received re-issued electronic tickets from Air France with no further explanation. The flights had not changed, but the longhaul segment from Paris to the West Coast, originally booked in unrestricted first class (F), was changed to discounted business class (Z). The ticket was also re-issued from Delta stock (starting in 006) to Air France stock (starting in 057). Essentially, Air France “took control” of the ticket.
Hours later, I received the following note from Priceline, the website I booked these tickets on:
Dear Matthew Klint,
We have received notification from your airline that your reservation has been changed according to your request, or has been cancelled due to day-of-travel flight cancellation or traveler no-show.
Because these changes have been made directly with or by the airline, any questions regarding your itinerary should be directed to the airline; we will be unable to address any questions or requests regarding this reservation. Please call Delta Air Lines directly at 1-800-221-1212.
Please note that future changes, including schedule change notifications from the airline, will no longer be sent to us, which means that our website will not reflect your most up-to-date itinerary. Please call your carrier prior to each departure to confirm your flight information.
I haven’t reached out to Delta yet, but several passengers on Flyertalk reported that Delta agents claim the ticket changes were unilaterally issued by Air France and Delta now has no control over the ticket.
That’s just plainly false. Air France took over the Delta ticket and there is nothing technically or legally stopping Delta from taking over the ticket back.
Indeed, a pair of passengers reported that Delta had taken over the ticket…and rebooked them in first class.
Those are unconfirmed data points, but I have no reason to question their validity. We’re in the Wild West when it comes to so-called “mistake fares”. The U.S. Department of Transportation has ruled that airlines do not have to honor them, leaving consumers to fend for themselves. That forces consumers to either accept pushback in more direct ways. Ultimately, resolution may come down to your negotiating power and will to fight.
With the economy imploding before our eyes, I’m not making threats or promises here. In fact, I really do not know at this point what I’ll do, beyond tear into Air France in a future post for its hypocrisy and duplicity.
We are seeing $16 fares to Miami and recently saw $500 r/t tickets in business class between Hawaii and Europe. I insist that customers cannot and should not be on the hook for figuring out what is a mistake fare and what is a sale. Furthermore, why should consumers only have 24 hours to refund tickets they booked in error but Air France can simply unilaterally modify tickets more than four days later? The fact that Air France is withholding refunds from so many customers around the world makes the irony all the more richer.
Longtime readers know I approach this issue with some degree of perspicaciousness. I’ve been on this rodeo so many times. My aggressiveness will be determined by my will to fight.
@ Matthew — I just don’t understand why anyone is booking these types of trips right now!
One doesn’t often get the opportunity to fly Air France First Class for that cheap, so when I see a fare sale, I’ll grab it.
Isn’t AF ~49% owned by DL, whose reputation is for a whole lot more taking than giving? Since Ed took charge a few years ago I have zero confidence in their truthfulness, and his pre-flight safety video sales pitch about loyalty is cringeworthy. He’s the epitome of ‘weclive you ’till the money’s gone’.
What ended up happening with your SWISS first-class tickets?
My question as well.
Same… Why boast about not going to sign NDA’s etcetera in the beginning but then never taking himself up on his word
See Matt’s conclusion and my comment on 12/27/18. Read between the lines, dears.
That’s too bad. Given the times and chaos I can’t imagine this is high on their radar of concern or optics. Right now AF is probably deciding whether they want to just strip out Le Premiere while planes sit idle. Given the loads even when times were the best, and the fact that any seats they did sell were usually $1200 check-in paid upgrades, I would imagine Le Premiere will not even be around for much longer, if ever at all again.
I was though enjoying the thought of management at The Hyatt at Algiers airport scratching their heads at the sudden influx of bookings for one night being made by travel bloggers.
Those bookings will all be canceled when people realize Algeria requires a visa and doesn’t accept mail-in applications at their embassy in the US. Instead, ALG airport is going to see an influx of airport transit via non-connected tickets, which they don’t have an official process for and have to call someone from your airline to come escort you.
@Ryan: Perhaps for others, but I have wanted to visit Algeria for years and written about it several times on LALF. The visa will be no obstacle to me.
That, plus none of their immediate/closest TATL partners offer F anyway. So light load factors at the best of times and no reciprocity. I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did. Though I definitely have some schadenfreude given how exclusive they made it which I’m sure could be attributed to its eventual demise.
@ Matthew — you wondered aloud publicly whether the ticket would remain a first-class ticket. I’m not sure it’s moral at this point to claim you couldn’t have known any better whether this was legitimately an F-fare.
That was yesterday after reports had already surfaced that AF was downgrading customers…
Sorry, I had my timeline mixed up.
If someone makes an offer and I purchase it I expect to use it. “Morality” is not an issue
That’s fine if you feel that way.
If you intentionally bought an item or service, knowing up front that it was either a mistake or somehow too good to be true, then feign ignorance after the fact, that’s taking advantage of the system (or of someone, if you’re chewing his / her ear off about honoring what you suspected anyway to be an incorrect offer). If you don’t lose sleep over doing so, kudos.
Hi Matthew,
I have 2 bookings via Priceline. When news broke that AF was downgrading to Business, I cancelled 1 booking via Delta’s online cancellation tool and it went thru without a problem. This was BEFORE AF took over the booking and re-issued the tickets.
For my 2nd booking, I have now received the new tickets from AF under Business. So I tried cancelling the tickets on Delta’s site but this time an error came up saying the ticket is issued by AF and Delta can’t cancel it.
Checking AF site, they do not have an online tool instead it shows: “If you wish to cancel your trip, please contact your travel agent. Refund terms depend on your ticket and conditions determined by your travel agency”
Going on Priceline but it says I should contact Delta (I guess their system still thinks Delta owns the tickets).
Given the above, how do you think I can cancel this booking?
Only Air France can cancel the ticket now.
However, if you manage to do what those few folks on Flyertalk claimed happened and get Delta to take the tickets over again from AF, then Delta can also cancel them again. But if you plan on cancel them anyway it seems like more of a headache then calling AF in the first place and cancel them, unless you’re afraid of not getting your refund from AF as they seem to be behaving quite badly right now.
Now really isn’t the time to be talking about cheap F ticke6s and mistake fares. Get some perspective.
I think we all need a break from COVID-19 news, but thanks for your valuable input Tony.
Tony, gotta love travel bloggers who put a comments section in and get snarky whenever someone disagrees with the general sphere of their article.
Matt two questions.
first one
what did they say to Delta to have them rebook the ticket back into first class on Delta stock? I’ve asked this many times and they said they can not do anything.
Secondly. How do I get air France to refund me if I decide to not go. I’ve heard they are horrible about refunding people’s money.
I don’t know what the magic words are with Delta. I really think it has more to do with the agent than any specific verbiage.
AF is notoriously bad at refunds–they put me through the same crap last time we had a “sale” fare in first class:
https://liveandletsfly.com/air-france-first-class-refund-letter/
Out of curiosity will they let you get your money back for the ticket? Going all the way to ALG just to try AF business doesn’t seem worth it (although Algeria is apparently a nice place…)
I don’t think it is worthwhile unless you intend to go to Algeria (as I do). Yes, Air France will (supposedly) refund your money.
I booked this months before you and other bloggers posted it last week (and then it hit FT) so am doubly peeved that it went viral and resulted in many people booking multiple dates. It’s no wonder AF had to act. But while they could have cancelled outright, even J on that route for <$500 US is a pretty good deal. However, did you not notice that the AF ticket has a $0 fare/taxes & fees. Which means DL still holds our money.
David, next time send it to me and I promise I won’t blog about…there are other deals I don’t make public, but anytime a deal hits Flyertalk or another big blog I feel it fair game to write about it.
I’ve noticed what seems an increase in error fairs recently. Any thought as to whether these may be on purpose by the airlines to get access to some interest free cash
So while downgrading/cancelling tickets seem to be happening really quickly, they’re in the meantime too busy to deal with refunds?
Convenient, isn’t it?
Agree with Matt. Now is not the time blah blah. This is a fun game a lot of us play to get on some of these nice products. No problem continuing our hobby during this sad time.
I’m really stating to think these “mistake fares” are a marketing tool used by the airlines. Even with the bad publicity of cancelling (which everyone adheres to (not sure why) the airlines still get everyone blogging about the grandeur of af first / Cathay Firsr/ Swiss first etx. Then the airline can cancel for free.
I’m a trader and we have algorithms that protect us from doing silly things. I can’t believe that time and time again the airlines can “accidentally” sell first class for not thing and then be protected. What are they losing ?! Not like these cabins go out full. Create a filter. First class longer than 6 hrs cannot be sold for less than 5k without 3 overriding decisions being made “are you sure you want to sell this seat for $400?!??!??” Basic basic programmers could create this protection. As if airlines wouldn’t have this logic if not protected by the authorities. It’s a farce. Mistake fares are a marketing tool and the government shouldn’t step in.
Companies are cheap. They know they can cancel and so they don’t invest in protecting against it. As well as some fare get priced a computer but more expensive and exclusive classes get priced and typed in by a person. That is to protect from mistakes created by a computer as it will maximize. Which can lead to a full cabin but first class on that flight only cost 50$ more then business. I remember stories of where a computer created fares to maximize load factors which destroyed margin on those flights.
So there is a balance between automation and human input.
Got same destiny as your and my tkt to Portland downgrading to Biz class with new tkt sent by AF by mail without any explanation, i contacted Air France in Paris and operator really wonder about my question, first apologised for inconvenient and asked sorry for that and admitting that of course fly in Biz is no same as in La Premiere, then after checking if any aircraft split that was not case and discussed with supervisor, claiming my tkt was originally in Biz class since Delta no selling First class , i claimed have in my hands both confirmation from Edreams with Af pnr and Delta ticket 006 stating my segment from Paris to San Franciso in First Class La Premiere and ask to mail them, then she insisting that for price paid is impossible fly in La Premiere!!! After argumenting that have confirmed reservation despite price paid she gently took my number to try solve up matter and call me back next week hopefully……
Of course will fight strongly to get honoured tkt since as consumers we have same rights of airlines, rules are made to be obliged both parties, errors or not errors.
For Tony yes are hard times but looking for future trips give kind of positivity and hopes for better future
What became of your ticket, Matthew?