My upcoming trip to Australia in business class on ANA has suffered an unfortunate setback…a significant equipment downgrade. Thus far, ANA refuses to re-accomodate or refund (without fee). Should they?
First, I give ANA tremendous credit for honoring this fare. I commend that it quickly made a decision and even offered to ticket reservations the following day for a handful of passengers who encountered a schedule change that prohibited the reservation from initially ticketing properly.
> Read More: How I Scored an Incredible $600 R/T Business Class Fare to Australia
The Problem: 787 Equipment Swap
Here’s the problem: the Vancouver ⇄ Tokyo flight was swapped from a 787-9 with 
to a 788-8 with these seats:
This aircraft will be used on flights between Vancouver (YVR) and Tokyo Haneda (HND) through March 2018.
I received the following email from ANA:
Thank you so much for flying with ANA.The aircraft for your reserved flight has been changed.We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
Such an equipment swap on a transpacific flight represents a substantial change. The trip to Australia was not necessary for me—I booked because of the cheap fare despite the additional costs to position to Vancouver and the inconvenience of flying via Tokyo.
But the equipment change fundamentally changed the value proposition for me. We’re not even talking about angled lie-flat seats. Nope, we are talking about “cradle” seats that are typically used on short regional flights. While certainly a first world problem, the seat is simply unacceptable for such a long flight and would have left me exhausted.
I Propose Three Solutions
I called up ANA and proposed the following three solutions:
- Rebook the identical itinerary in March when the 787 aircraft returns to a lie-flat configuration.
- Re-route from another ANA gateway that has lie-flat seats, even if it involves an airport change from Tokyo Narita to Haneda.
- Refund the ticket without fee.
While the ANA agent was incredibly kind, she insisted that the equipment change did not “qualify” for any of the options above. I was curious if this was a stubborn agent or a strict policy. Indeed, the ANA conditions of carriage does not specifically address what happens in the case of an equipment swap to an inferior product (unless it is an actual cabin downgrade).
The COC mentions that a passenger may be entitled to a refund if ANA “is unable to provide a Passenger with his/her reserved seat” but this is interpreted by ANA to mean a seat on the flight, not a specific seat assignment.
ANA essentially argues that the guarantee was for a 1.) seat in 2.) business class between 3.) origin and destination. But what it defines as business class is key. I booked directly with ANA: pictures of the lie-flat business class seat were shown during booking.
Is ANA really going to argue that a regional business class seat constitutes the same value proposition as a lie-flat bed? I can assure you that I would never have even taken advantage of this sale fare had I known the seat would not be lie-flat. Should that matter? Isn’t that a material change?
Such argument fell upon deaf ears.
I don’t raise my voice. Nor did I get angry. I merely verified once more that ANA would not refund the ticket and then asked my reservation be cancelled (without initiating the ticket cancellation/refund process). In an attempt to resolve the situation on-the-spot, I asked to speak to a supervisor.
ANA Supervisor Surprises Me
The supervisor then surprised me. She essentially repeated the same thing as the previous agent. I asked if there was a best e-mail address to contact customer service.
She stated, “Sir, let me share something with you because you seem quite understanding. We receive calls every day about this equipment change. It has been communicated to us by management in Tokyo that we cannot budge on this equipment change. Please do reach out to them. We would like to be able to help.”
And that is exactly what I will do.
I actually think ANA may once again do the honorable thing and allow penalty-free refund of this ticket (or even better, re-accomodation on another routing). We will find out.
CONCLUSION
If you are tempted to argue that passengers should just accept the significant equipment downgrade, I urge you to rethink that position. ANA said it would honor the fare like any other fare. What does “sincerely apologize” mean if ANA is not willing to address it? I proposed three reasonable solutions. I believe that ANA’s generous decision to honor what they claim was an error fare does not absolve them of their duty to address a significant equipment change.
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This seems like a simple CoC argument in which ANA has no obligation to do anything for you. They are still offering a business class seat (although a pretty bad one) with business class catering which is what you purchased. It would be the same situation if you flew transatlantic on AA 763/332 and were subbed for a 757 with recliner seats. AA certainly wouldn’t do anything in that situation.
Not accurate. If AA switches a non-lie flat for a lie flat, AA will accommodate you on any AA, BA, IB or AY-operated flight on your routing, free of charge. It is their policy.
Simon is correct. AA is a bad comparison.
“What does “sincerely apologize” mean if ANA is not willing to address it? ”
It means they’re Japanese.
ANA apologizes for 3 minute flight delays (“we apologize for inconvenience caused”).
Frequently airlines are willing to refund mistake fares that they are honoring, aircraft swap aside. But if that rule hasn’t been explicitly decided you’d need someone empowered to make that judgment.
I was told ANA has specifically decided against being able to cancel a mistake fare.
Well, I wish you luck. Same thing happened to me, but I didn’t understand the equipment change until I was onboard.
The good news: the soft product was quite nice and the cradle chair made for a pleasant sleep.
It’s not that I wouldn’t survive. I’m sure food and service would be fine. I’m glad you had a nice flight.
Well, at least the person stated clearly that they were firmly instructed to say what they said. The policy is not on their hands. You may want to escalate this issue.
If you can win with ethiopian, why can’t you win with ana? They seem more reasonable. Tough japanese custom often strict when dealing with rules and regulation but maybe you can get something by just asking nicely and argue logically.
I will try my best with this.
I am having the same challenge with QR. I booked a cheap SGN-DOH-JNB biz ticket, they honored the ticket, they changed the times for all 4 of my flights (one, specifically, departing 1hr 30 mins EARLIER). There is only one flight per day but they continue to argue that all four changes are under 2 hrs. I have to pay a change fee if I depart the day before or after or if I try to receive a refund, the fee is more than the price I paid for the ticket. I bought the ticket during the summer, its 5 months later, I’ve made non-refundable plans now, and they won’t accommodate me. It’s a no-win situation for me.
That is a no-win situation. Please report back if you have any future luck changing.
You’re ridiculous. You get to fly across the world for peanuts when ANA was certainly not obligated to even honor this fare. Not only should you not have anything given to you, you should be banned from flying ANA.
Thank you Mr. President.
Sad!
Talk about a first world problem indeed… There are some of us in this world that have to *gasp* endure COACH for long business trips because that is what our corporate policy is. You’ll survive. SMH
Then don’t read the blog if it pains you so much to hear about the problems with premium travel on a blog about premium travel. It’s a win-win…you don’t have to waste energy feigning indignation and we don’t have to read your nonsense. Problem solved!
i don’t think it’s just an ANA issue – the notion of free changes and refunds due to *relatively* minor equipment swaps is mostly a US-airline thing.
In the US we’re blessed that airlines are willing to entertain re-routing and refund requests simply switching from 319 to E75, even if you’re seated in economy and it’s hardly any difference in the overall experience (some argue the E75 is better but I’ll leave that debate for some other time)
The extreme conformance to rules is very much a cultural phenomenon of Japan, and to a lesser degree, Korea. I’d say you can write back to corporate HQ, but given that you’ve scored a $600 J deal to Australia, I’d say be grateful it’s honored and just enjoy the cradle recliner.
We’ll see. I am going to try to contact ANA.
I agree with Mark (and you should know better as a lawyer)! Most airlines are sympathetic to equipment changes and will rebook (even for domestic flights) but they are not contractually obligated to do so. As we’ve said time and time again, you’re buying transportation from A to B.
I just think this amounts to a bait and switch, especially when the booking page contained pictures of the seat.
Perhaps we have just been trained to think we are only “buying transportation from A to B” but contracts of carriage (i.e. contracts of adhesion) may not be fully enforceable since they are so one-sided (take it or leave it).
“Substantial change” is your opinion. That is not some term of art that describes this particular situation. You are getting from A to B in the class you booked. Features or a particular aircraft are rarely, if ever, a “guarantee.” I completely understand the way you feel, and I would feel the same way. As avgeeks, we know the products well, and we choose our flights based on very specific criteria. However, trying to make up some quasi-legal sounding , flawed argument takes away from your point. Your strongest point is the truth here. You booked the flights the flight with the intention of trying/using/availing yourself of a specific product, and you would like the airlines help to do so.
Thanks for your comment. We’ll see what ANA says.
Given that this a daytime westbound flight (3.05 pm departure), I would probably try to stay up anyway to adjust to the new time zone, and thus not care as much about flatbed vs recliner. I admit though it’s pretty incredible that they’re putting a Dreamliner with a regional configuration on this route.
That’s another issue…what would make them do that? It’s an odd choice.
You’ve got to be kidding me. What an A-hole. I’m flying Economy from NRT/DFW tomorrow for more than you paid. Man you people are some whiny SOBs. I hope they put you middle seat last row for whining. So sorry your “literally” free upgrade to Business class won’t be on the best possible equipment. Holy crap
Thanks Ryan.
Maybe since ANA messed up already and gave you a heck of an amazing deal on business class they will charter a different 787 for you to make sure you get your lie flat seats. They must feel awful . People who complain about what kind of free upgraded seat to business class they received piss me off
so ur ok with paying and thinking you’re getting one Main lobster and actually being served a 1 crayfish?
come on man, ur reading a freaking award travel blog, the whole point is to get the best for less, and not something halfassed and less.
Thank you Dave.
@Ryan: “free” upgrade? There is no upgrade in this fare.
I think that’s lame of the airline. If you bought something from Amazon and it says the color of the item is blue but you get hot pink you probably want to exchange it. You wouldn’t be very happy if the vendor says too bad that’s all we have. No refund. Wouldn’t you feel like you’ve been baited. Same here. And it’s not about business class. It’s about the transaction. Can happen in economy plus, car rentals,….
Thanks Joe. I agree.
Does this really surprise anyone? This is the same blogger who flew halfway around the world after he was told several times his ticket was cancelled. He then proceded to spend 2 or 3 days berating some poor airport until they finally relented and gave him a ticket to get out of their hair.
This is also the same blog where the female blogger is so entitled she brag about the fact that bc her kid is gold and earned (that kid is going to be so entitled) her comp upgrade that she will disrupt the rest of the cabin of people who paid are exeuctive platinum, plat pro, n plat just so they can sit together even though they already had seats together in economy.
Pathetic
Thanks for your valuable insight, Will.
Congrats Matt!! Seems you found yourself a couple of new fans…. lol
Regardless of what you paid, you purchased (according to the airline CoC) transportation from A to B in a stated class of service. Equipment swaps are not mentioned in the contract because there is no differentiation between equipment types, only class of service. Would you be whining and crying on your blog if ANA subbed an aircraft with 34″ in Y to one with 32″ in Y? To some that would be a “substantial change” as you characterize it. However, a change in equipment does not trigger any responsibility on the part of the airline so long as you are accommodated in your original class of service, which you are. This is a poor argument. Your pettiness to even negotiate this with ANA seems to reveal much about your character. Move on.
I see the situation very differently, but you’re obviously free to disagree. Thanks for weighing in.
While Occam’s razor tells us the simplest explanation is generally correct (and, therefore, this is probably a simple equipment swap) I wonder if it’s worth considering the following possibility:
That, having felt duty (and possibly DOT) bound to honor these tickets, ANA decided to declare an equipment swap for the period covering most of the bookings in the hope of causing the people who thought they had gotten something for next-to-nothing to cancel. Then, if successful (or even if not) they could swap the equipment back.
Of course they wouldn’t want to inconvenience or annoy actual paying customers. But, if their plan is to swap back, they could avoid that by only emailing mistake fare customers. Most other customers might never learn that there had been a temporary switch. Indeed, even if they don’t swap back, some travelers may not even realize the seat provided was not the seat scheduled at time-of-booking. It would be interesting to know if everyone in business got that email or only mistake fare customers.
Having been told no refund would be issued, I’m surprised you gave up the seat more than a day or two out from the flight — just to see if they did swap back. Indeed, keeping the reservation would seem to provide more leverage in any negotiations for a refund in the month and a half before the flight.
this isn’t even a DOT issue since it’s YVR-Tokyo-Australia, not touching US soil at any point.
Indeed, with the Canada origination, it is not (although I don’t believe touching US soil at this point makes a difference for extreme mistake fares like this).
@LarryInNYC: I think you’re right, though the cradle seat was only in one direction (via SFO in the other).
I would argue that the “Cradle” seats are more comfortable for sitting than ANA’s Business Staggered which have minimal seat padding. I add the mattress pad for sitting to compensate. So if sleeping is not necessary, the Cradle seat has better ass padding.
That has not been my experience, but we agree ANA’s lie-flat product won’t win any awards…
do you pride yourself on giving airlines the most difficult time as possible..
No.
Try and escalate to get compensation. If no success, just cancel and do something else. Life is too short to fly such a crap product just because it’s cheap.
I think it’s chintzy to not receive compensation from ANA because I do think the equipment swap is a significant change – nobody would book at flatbed pricing for a cradle product (that you happened to get a good deal is immaterial).
That Ryan guy complaining about effectively being a schnook for paying more for economy is a laugh.
Thanks for your comment.
The mock outrage expressed here is hilarious… but wildly misplaced. Buying a mistake fare still requires an enormous amount of effort and expense, regardless of the bargain you got on the fare. It’s a long time away from work/family, expense for the flight itself, positioning flight(s), hotels, etc. If the reason you booked is that you expected to have a comfortable, restful flight as a core part of the experience (and which was displayed to you as part of the booking experience), you are at the very least entitled to be disappointed and request to be accommodated to the experience you paid for. The legalities, policies, CoC, etc do come into play here, but he has every right to ask for (and imho receive) accommodation. And if the mistake fare is so egregious, they should be happy to just give him his money back and open up space for a higher value customer – there is nothing unreasonable about that.
Very clearly stated. I’m in full agreement.
Sue in small claims for the refund. A breach of contract claim would be tricky if they perform which is getting you to point A to point B, if the swap was a material enough of change or breach that will be for him/her (judge) to decide in addition to any unfair/unlawful deceptive trade practices or false advertising….Whether or not you’d win a different story but if you’re that bent out of shape over it, the consumer’s last resort for this has always been small claims. My experience has been when I’ve been pissed off enough to file it doesn’t even get to trial and the airline is more amenable to work something out.
I will not sue ANA.
Interesting option. Where will the suit take place? Canada? Lol…..
I am the same person who supported you 100% through your Ethiopian Airlines scandal and said that I would pay 50% of the price if I paid a mistake fair and that was honored. I do not think, based on what you have said, that you are entitled to any form of compensation. It does not appear that this was a mistake fair, or if it was, ANA is handling it the right way. You paid cheap discount economy for a business class ticket, and ANA is fully aware of that, and so are you. Although I completely understand what you are suggesting to be a reasonable change, it is my opinion that such a change would be a bummer but not a huge deal. If I were in your shoes, I would take the flight, knowing that I still scored a huge deal, and would not argue with ANA. Ethiopian Airlines did something totally unethical, but I just don’t think that ANA would be so unethical if they don’t give you anything for the way you handle this or what you are suggesting. You are still paying much less than some people paid for the flight who are sitting in the back of the bus, and I would not say your request is unreasonable or that you are wrong to suggest what you are suggesting, but that you should not be surprised or ashamed if you do not get your way. Good luck to you.
Thanks for your commentary Alan. I always appreciate it.
I agree that people who jumped on this error fare and are complaining are a little ridiculous. However, some of us (myself) actually are paying regular business fares to fly this route and ANA is also being stubborn with us about changes after the equipment swap.
Life is too short to sit on Airplanes. When I fly somewhere I want to fly the best product I can. But I wonder if any of these people actually see the cities/countries they go to. I wonder if they’ve ever eaten real food. Some of them talk about how good the food on the plane is and that makes me wonder because I’ve flown on 100s of first and biz class flights and I’ve had food I can eat but I can’t really think of a time I had a meal I want to have again.
I guess I have more simple tastes.
You are the customer and you are the king. But not rules and regulation. If you think every air company will follow you, that’s a dream. Some can be true and some can’t. If you willing show the air ticket r&r, it will be clear to solve this problem. Good luck!
The whole premise of this post is that Matthew took advantage of ANA and their mistake fare and now he feels they are taking advantage of him, oh my, the horrors of it, I feel so terrible for Matthew. How dare they take advantage of him!
Well…If you still has problem with NEA(North East Asia) airlines then pls use your own…I do strongly recommend U…the…UA.
Do U still think that seat change with sudden way still has problem, based on what you did paid?
well…
Try to share valuable information to you, about NEA airline ticket price charge policy against to ‘foreign people’…They are so nice and cheap ever one for you!…Of course, except some chino roach airlines…They have good policy for their own people!…
So…I just want to say to U, in nice way…
BITE YOUR F.TONGUE WHEN YOU TAKE NEA AIRLINES!!!, N…Try to use your own one,1st when U start prepare your shit ever travel to some shit hole in near future!
There are more valuable one for you in your shit ever west cost area, like…the UA or AA…Or maybe…perhaps…AC…You will feel more comfortable with your other 0 colors happy shits!
“My own”?
When I checked-in at YVR and commented to the CSR about the equipment swap and seating change, I got the sense that they hear these complaints every day (but were empathetic nonetheless). To the people commenting above that we should roll over and take it, I’d counter that I didn’t ask ANA for the product at a particular price…ANA offered a specific product at a specific price and then reneged on the product. Yes, I understand the CoC, but I also understand the concept of fulfilling the spirit of an offer (e.g. if I reserve a BMW from HERTZ I do t expect to end up driving a Chrysler Pacifica…yes, both are cars that will get me to my destination but it’s about agreed upon expectations). Truth be told, I’d consider this product luxury circa 2004. But I don’t live in 2004 and I was not given what I was offered…it’s not a complicated issue. My one question is if they really did not know 2 months before the operation of the flight what aircraft they would be using for the next 6 months.
“We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.”
In their own email, they clearly admitted having “inconvenienced” you, yet have refused to provide any remedy. You shouldn’t be the one accommodating a change made at their convenience, and no person familiar with the two seat types could deny that a substantive downgrade has taken place with a straight face. And regional business config for a 10 hr flight? When did that ever make sense? I maxxed out at about 6.5 hours on a day-time HND-BKK with the regional config and it was great, but it is not made for sleep.
Says a lot about you that the way you can drive traffic to your blog is by portraying yourself as a d bag.
You sir, are the Donald Trump of Boarding Area.
I believe my concern is justified and ANA acted unethically. Sorry if you disagree.
I’m curious, were you able to make any progress on this with ANA?
Not yet. I promise to report here when I do.
I have the same problem with a flight on ANA from Vancouver to Haneda and then Haneda to Kuala Lumpur. All flights were with Business Staggered when I booked. I go on now to see all 4 flights have been changed to the cradle crap. I also would not have booked this using Aeroplan points had I known they would change.
Depending on ANA’s response, I will be going back to Aeroplan to get them to change me without a fee to a better situation. It isn’t worth the extra points for a Business Class seat from the 80’s. Real disappointment.
Hey Matthew, what happened with all of this? Did you get a positive solution?
Still working on it. No resolution yet, but I promise to post an update here when it happens.
updates?
Nope. Still waiting. Have not been active on ANA’s tail.
Hi Matt,
we got same name and same case. ANA just do the same thing to my flight next weeks. Do you still remember what happened to your case 6 years ago? 🙂
I threw in the towel.