Last month I wrote A Warning to American Express and a very feisty discussion ensued.
The issue: should cardholders have to pay $50 per child for Centurion Lounge entry beyond their first child? On one side of the debate: families with children and those who viewed the fee as unreasonable. On the other, mostly single travelers who asserted the lounge should be a quiet sanctuary from children.
A recurring comment appeared throughout the discussion: the problem is not loud children, but the intoxicated.
Babies vs. Drunks
Last night we had a relatively short layover in San Francisco that proved to be too short. We arrived from Frankfurt a few minutes early (long day of travel that started in Greece…) but immigration lines were so long we missed our connection to Burbank. Thankfully, there was space on the last flight (even in first class), but it meant we had a two hour wait.
Since we had slept through the final meal service on the flight from Frankfurt, we headed over to the American Express Centurion Lounge for dinner. Unlike mornings, the lounge was not close to capacity.
We brought Augustine into the children’s room, where he quietly played before drinking a bottle then falling asleep:
Meanwhile, there were two men having some sort of drinking contest at a table nearby us. They were loud, boisterous, and foul-mouthed. Downing alcohol like water, they each went through at least five drinks in under an hour.
On the other side was a man loudly negotiating the sale of a house on his mobile phone. He was on the phone for 90 minutes and we heard every word of the conversation.
Yes, we could have gone to one of the three United Clubs that would have been more quiet. But the United Clubs don’t have a children’s room and the food in the American Express lounge is still decent. I enjoyed a nice salad with baked chicken and pulled pork.
So who was bad, the child or the adult?
CONCLUSION
For the road warriors who claim that children are the problem, I give you my experience last night. Yes, there are bad children. Yes, there are bad parents who let their children run wildly. But that is not the norm. More often than not, when you see someone act out it is an adult…
Not sure what your argument is, considering that you still got 2 guests in (your wife and kid) for free. Good on you for watching your relatively young kid, but try bringing in 4 kids around 6-10 years old and see how they act around each other while the parents ignore them.
Of course too many adults behave badly – especially when free booze is available But it’s beyond irritating when parents drag a screaming kid into a lounge or let young children run around like it’s a public playground.
And no, despite the slanted intro, you can still bring in 2 guests for free. So if you really must breed like rabbits in a vastly overcrowded planet, then don’t whine to the rest of us about not getting a free ride
In both cases, the “adults” are behaving irresponsibly. This is really not about kids, nor is it something political (as a side note: I presume if you adopt two children, then you are allowed to whine?). Instead, it is simply about adults behaving or misbehaving – whether they are parents or not.
Please respect those of us who are allergic to children. We have rights too.
I assume you were allergic to yourself at some point then. What a hard life you must lead.
there’s no point to any argument or meaningful debate here since the referee, aka blog author, has clearly taken sides before any discussion could be made.
another bias would be the situation each reader is in. *some* single people might side with the babies, but virtually *all* parents will always side with babies over the adults. I’ve nearly never seen parents willingly admit that babies and parents have more problems than adults.
final point is enforcement bias. if both a baby and a drunk adult are misbehaving in the same lounge, the lounge agent can throw the adult out with zero repercussion, but it’s 200% guaranteed the parent asked to leave would attempt to publicly shame the lounge on social media.
“there’s no point to any argument or meaningful debate here since the referee, aka blog author, has clearly taken sides before any discussion could be made.”
That’s a silly point to make. Bloggers are supposed to take sides. It’s called “boardingarea.com”, not “impartialdebatearbiters,com”.
Regarding your final point: babies act up sometimes. That’s what they do. They don’t know any better. Drunks, on the other hand, do know better. Now if parents let their kids run amok, or don’t take them out if they’re having a meltdown, I’m all for kicking them out… Just like I’m for kicking out drunken louts.
they have every right to opine all they want, but not if they want an objective debate on the subject.
see his last statement ? “So who was bad, the child or the adult?”
his title and opening paragraph has already answered the final question he posed. BEFORE presenting any *anecdotal* evidence, his opening bid has already labeled his own kid as “angel” and the adult as the “loser.”
so why would we expect any type of objectivity here whatsoever ?
I think saying the opposition’s main point was that the lounge should be kid free is a bit misleading. I think a big point is each card member should be allowed X number of guests and each additional guest should be $50 regardless of their age. I don’t speak for all single people, but why should I pay the same as you…a family of 3? One of the bloggers has 6 kids. Why should one AF cover 8 people?
Except for you do realize that for the cost of a family of 8 traveling together, you can travel 8 times? Funny how things have a way of equaling themselves out.
My last visit I shared the lounge with the Duggers
and there was this time when i was on a plane and a 7-year old girl spent the whole flight kicking my seat back. when i looked at the mom (without even opening my mouth), she actually gave me attitude by saying “she’s a little girl what do you expect??”
it’s THIS kind of people that make us look very poorly upon parents and expecting them to accept any type of responsibility. i can easily complain about a drunk, but if I complain about the mother and girl, they’ll accuse me of causing trouble.
society is always biased towards those with poor parenthood planning skills and biased against those working 80 hours a week to put food on the table.
Having interacted with you on here, I think that girl might have a point. She’s awesome!
If I ever meet her, ice cream is one me.
Working 80 hours a week. Please spare me. I was a corporate lawyer. So your moans are laughable. You can still work hard without being a dick. You might want to try it.
Nowadays it seems like every lounge I enter has 50 to 100 screaming kids in it. Children should not permitted, period.
@Wes Since you and I both know that it’s not even remotely true that every airport lounge has 50-100 screaming kids, if you feel that way, the problem clearly is actually you…
You are way too smart a guy to believe your one experience is representative sample of what goes on in the lounge.
Every should be allowed the same number of guest!
I enjoy your blog more than most-you’re a great writer with lots of interesting experiences and information to share. But I really hope this isn’t turning into “Daddy Points.”
Exactly my issue and probably why I will part ways with my Amex Platinum. I travel twice a year with my family for vacation. It is me, my wife and two well behaved boys that cannot apply for a credit card themselves since their age and credit score won’t probably allow Anex to give them a Platinum card. So now I have a choice: pay for a kid to enter in the lounge with me, my wife and the other kid or leave him outside since Amex won’t allow me to bring my family after paying $550 for the card. And yes, my kid will probably cost Amex the price of a cookie he will eat at the lounge. Oh, but the drunk guy that should be applying for his own Amex Platinum if he likes the free booze so much won’t bring any revenue to Amex because he probably came as a guest. I am OK in not allowing an entire family with grandparents, uncles, nephews, etc… to enter on the same card but wife and kids flying all together not being allowed is beyond me.
Randy has been promising the ability to “hide” certain blogs from never showing up on your Boarding Area feed for a while now. I long for the day that we’re able to do this.
“Yes, there are bad parents who let their children run wildly.”
THIS. The problem most of the time isn’t the children themselves. It’s parents who can’t be bothered to watch over and discipline them properly. (I hate to say it, though – you’re tilting at windmills on this subject. Kids in lounges/premium cabins is one of the third rails of travel blogging. You won’t be able to change anyone’s mind on the issue.)
Lol definitely a straw man argument if I’ve ever seen one. No one is claiming that a loud drunk is better than a well behaved child. What people are arguing though is that AMEX shouldn’t let in unlimited number of “family members” into the lounge which leads to overcrowding. One drunk idiot or one rowdy child is one too many bad apples in the lounge and both should be asked to leave if they are disturbing other patrons.
I am a 20 year old college student. I think that the problem is indeed drunks, not kids. Kids might be loud and obnoxious, but put them in the play room. If they’re badly behaved, kick the whole family out. Such is the responsibility of being a parent, however I do still believe that kids should be given a chance. Likewise they should kick out drunks who are behaving loudly and can’t stop after a warning. If the lounge attendants do that, everyone wins.
Amex isn’t saying kids can’t come in. They are saying if you want to bring in 2, 3, 5, 10 kids…you gotta pay. I think that’s fair. When it’s a screaming, mis-behaved 8 year old or a drunken DYKWIA businessman….they both take up a seat.
I think this is a space issue as well as Amex trying to correctly assess costs based on actual usage.
There is a fundamental difference between adult guests and child guests. If you have a 30 year old guest and don’t want to pay for his admission, he can hang out in the Peet’s while the cardmember enjoys the lounge. If the cardmember is the guardian of a 3 year old who would be his guest, leaving the 3 year old at Peet’s, the cardmember will enjoy the nearest detention sheriff’s detention facility. In other words, the cardmember with a child guest is required to pay or they can’t take advantage of the card benefit, unlike the card member with the adult guest.
You can argue about whether it makes sense to charge for all guests, but trying to claim that adult guests and child guests are fundamentally equivalent is an inherently flawed argument.
If there 2 adults and 2 three year olds…no one is forcing you to go in and pay the $50. Either pay the $50 or all 4 of you go to Peets.
That is where Amex is missing the opportunity. Kids CANNOT apply for a Amex Platinum and pay a $550 fee. Nobody is saying Amex should allow an entire family (grandpa, grandma, uncle, nephews, etc…) all in under one card. However, a family with wife and kids should not have to pay $50 per kid (after paying $550 for the card) that will not drink or eat almost anything. Now, the adult guest CAN pay and should pay $550 if he likes the lounge so much.
Precisely. I’ve got three children ages 5 and under (of which one is a 2.5 month old –wouldn’t ever occupy a seat or cause “space issues”). As a family we recently traveled to Vietnam — after a very long flight from HKG, my wife and I had to take turns going into the lounge and showering while the other one of us stayed outside with the kids. This, after years of AMEX membership and paying thousands in fees. It’s asinine.
I would actually have a LOT more respect for parents if I ever read a blog post titled :
“my kid was horrid and I didn’t do my job as a parent. they kicked us out and we deserved it.”
But alas, you would NEVER read such a blog post from anyone.
I’d have a lot more respect for Henry LAX if he just posted:
“I’m an impotent, miserable c**t and I take out my resentment on people whose genitals actually function.”
Be real Henry.
Henry –
The problem is that you have no idea how many parents actually have been good parents and removed their troublemaking children from an environment, because they remove their troublemaking children from the environment.
I’ve certainly done it over the years from fine restaurants and airline clubs.
I’ve never, ever seen a drunk businessman bellowing on his phone say “wow, I’m a complete jerk right now, I’m going to shut up and leave.”
+1. Matthew normally is a lot less blatant about his biases, and it would be totally refreshing to see a headline similar to what you propose. The obvious problem, and this is not just on Matthew, is that no blogger (or person) wants to take the blame for being a crappy parent. It’s just much easier to blame someone else.
I think the real issue is people in our hobby want to travel like the rich and famous and when companies actually ask people to pony up…all hell breaks loose.
The Plat card is supposed to be a high end card. If you can’t afford 2 cards….or can’t get $1500 in value from $625 in annual fees…then too bad….get an everyday card and sit in Starbucks b4 your flight. The airlines have gotten stingy with benefits, freebies, and overall value. Why is everyone shocked that the cc companies are catching on too.
I’m single and actually like kids. Kids in a lounge don’t bother me at all. But there’s only so much square footage per cardholder per club. If families want to take up more Sq footage they should pay more.
>Kids in a lounge don’t bother me at all. But there’s only so much square footage per cardholder per club. If families want to take up more Sq footage they should pay more.
@Shaun – This is at least a legitimate argument. I don’t agree with the conclusion that you draw, but at least it’s not some non sequitur like “if you really must breed like rabbits in a vastly overcrowded planet.”
That being said, you’re not acknowledging that there fundamentally is a difference between two cardmembers who don’t want to pay for their 3rd guest, one cardmember who has 3 adult guests and can have their 3rd guest go someplace else, and one cardmember who has 3 child guests, who can’t have their 3rd guest go someplace else.
In the first group, the cardmember and 2 guests can still enjoy the benefits for which the cardmember has paid (handsomely) without paying extra.
In the second group, your proposal is that they should all go to Peet’s, because the cardmember can’t leave their child alone at Peet’s, and as a result, the cardmember and 2 guests don’t get to enjoy the benefits for which the cardmember has paid (also handsomely).
That fundamentally makes them different situations, and I would argue, should be treated differently (although you and I can legitimately disagree on the conclusion).
@ Greg
I do agree that if I take my 15, 10, and 3 yr old nieces/nephew on a trip….there is no way I could just leave one of them in the terminal (the 15yr old is the least mature). If instead I took 3 golfing buddies, 3 work associates, or any group of 3 adults sure, one could stay in the terminal. I would never do that. I’d pay the $50 so everyone could have the same enjoyment.
But I think the underlying message is Amex is treating both card members the same…2 free guests and every guest after $50. I think that is yhr fairest way to handle it. Each person then can make the decision if the added expense is worth it.
I’ve got a primary personal Plat, a personal AU Plat, and 2 business primary Plats. Not including the AU that’s $1450 I’m paying Amex in fees. And I’m only allowed to bring in 2 guests b/c it’s “per cardmember” not per account. Why does anyone object to a cert system where each card gets X amount of certs and how you use them is up to you? Bring in your co-worker, bring in a stranger you met on the plane, bring in your family. Whatever.
This. This is the best compromise. Each card member gets, say, 50 entries per year. Single traveler – 50 entries per year. Family of four – 12 entries per year for the whole family. Problem solved.
@Shaun I do hear the fairness argument, but (a) with your golfing buddies you have a choice, with your kids, you don’t have a choice.
Also, perhaps more to the point, it’s not like people saying that families should be treated differently than non family guests are crazy talking. UA, AA, DL (subject to their weird executive/individual membership) and AS all allow immediate families or two guests in:
United Club members may bring their spouse and dependent children under 21, or up to two guests, into any United Club location. Members must accompany their family and guests during their United Club visit. https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/travel/airport/lounge/rules.aspx
Admirals Club, and Citi® / AAdvantage® Executive Card primary cardholders Immediate family or up to 2 guests https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/clubs/club-and-lounge-access.jsp
Members with an Executive membership may access Delta Sky Club with up to 2 guests or immediate family (spouse or domestic partner and children under 21 years of age) complimentary, http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/airports-and-aircraft/delta-sky-club/house-rules.html
Members are welcome to bring immediate family (spouse or domestic partner and children under the age of 21) or as many as two guests at no extra charge https://www.alaskaair.com/content/airport-lounge/policies-and-rules
Exactly. All airlines welcome immediate family BUT Amex. If they added the word “immediately” all would be good. I am against bringing an entire family but immediate family should be allowed when kids are under 21. They cannot apply for a credit card to get lounge access and they will not drink alcohol. Amex Platinum used to be an amazing card. Now, the only benefit for me is access to Delta lounge since almost all other benefits can be obtained by having the Chase Sapphire Reserve at a lower cost. I am going to become Diamond with Delta this year so I will get free Delta lounge access and will say goodbye to Amex.
There are a lot of opinions whether children should be allowed in hotel and airport lounges. I take my kids into lounges all of the time without a problem. I believe it is mostly bad parents who aren’t watching their kids… or the adults who are acting like children.
Love your comparison and cute baby, I’ll take a child over a rude drunk slob any day.
I’d rather be amongst drunken buffoons than children when I am relaxing in a n airport lounge.