We flew home from Zurich via Amsterdam, spending a night in the Venice of the North before flying home to Los Angeles onboard a brand-new KLM 787-10 in economy class.
First Impressions: KLM 787-10 Economy Class
This was my first longhaul flight on KLM in economy class, but at 22K one-way, including a stopover in Amsterdam, it was too good of deal to pass up. Plus, flying in economy class takes all the pressure off of flying with young children.
There was a little incident at the gate concerning my wife’s green card. A very rude American official demanded to see her green card, even though it had just been checked during check-in. That’s fine, but this U.S. official was incredibly rude…I may say more about that in a future post.
Anyway, with the paperwork delay, I was not first onboard, but we still managed to board early and get situated onboard before it filled up. KLM seating is nine-across on the 787-10, but legroom felt reasonable at 32 inches of pitch. As it was a daytime flight, we did not recline the seat during the flight, but when I tested it, it felt generous.
Unlike my mostly-empty Air France flight on the outbound, every single seat was taken on this flight. It was a full flight.
Also unlike Air France, where I felt there was simply not enough food served onboard, KLM keeps its economy class passengers well-fed. Lunch was served after takeoff (note the generous salad):
Mid-flight sandwiches were offered (which constitute a pre-arrival meal on some airlines):
Finally, a second lunch (pizza) was served before landing. A horrible carb overload indeed, but I do want to give KLM credit for offering plenty of food onboard (water runs were also frequent).
The crew was quite pleasant, as I’ve come to expect on KLM.
Internet cost €18 for a flight pass (messaging was free), which comes in quite handy on a long daytime flight during my normal work hours. That said, my daughter loves to plant herself on my lap or on Heidi’s, so I was not exactly very productive.
The kids did just fine. A little bit of teasing and the occasional squeal, as one would expect with a two-year-old sitting next to a six-year-old for 11 hours, but overall the kids were well-behaved.
There was a very special exchange onboard which I will share about tomorrow.
CONCLUSION
It’s hard to beat a one-way journey from Switzerland to the West Coast of the USA with a stopover in Amsterdam for 22K miles and about $120 in taxes. For that reason, I would not hesitate to use KLM again when traveling with the kids and using miles. Still, I missed business class…that’s a treat on KLM as well.
> Read More: KLM 787-9 Business Class (SFO-AMS)
I’ll have far more details and pictures from the flight in my full review. Stay tuned.
How can I get the recipe for the brown sugar tart served on United flights?
Thanks!
Check with Eli’s Cheesecake. You may be able to buy online.
I remember when I used to fly economy when starting off as a junior banker. I would hope to fly KLM because of their slightly better leg room and food and I’m glad their economy product is still great. Haven’t flown it in years but I’ll try flying it sometime this year for nostalgia’s sake.
Food in KLM economy looks better than United Polaris.
That’s not an exaggeration. Was thinking the same.
🙂
Now that you mention it…
🙂
I agree. Especially the meatballs in KLM´s economy class are as tasty as economy food gets, imho.
Why not trap the kids in the middle of a four across section? Or take two rows of side seats, one behind another? It’s always interesting to hear someone else’s seating strategy.
3-3-3 seating on 787-10.
Are the aisles noticeably bigger without 4 in the middle?
I don’t think so – aren’t all Dreamliners nine across in the back?
JAL is the only exception I know of. Their Dreamliners (I think all, but maybe just some configurations) are 2-4-2 in the back.
Oh sorry was thinking 777
No. JAL and ANA are 8 across in coach on the 787
Eight across?
Correct, JL and NH are 8 across on their 787s in economy. (except I think domestic layouts)
I love KLM, they offer great direct flights to western Canada ♥️. The service and food is lovely. Hopefully AMS will have few delays this summer.
Canada is basically a Totalitarian failed state at this point. Like Molly Bloom, I will never go there.
Troll much?
Please advise the incorrect statement and we’ll go from there.
“Totalitarian failed state” is not a correct description of Canada, which is a vibrant democracy. Let’s go from there, as you say.
“Basically” was the qualifier. Either way, Trudeau as dictator isn’t exactly a democracy to me, but whatever you say. My friend in Calgary has a number in his circle who are vaccine injured. Why? Trudeau. Dictator. End of story.
“Trudeau as dictator”
Not exactly a correct statement either.
Mislav Kolakusic from Crotia, member of European parliament, on Justin Trudeau:
The MEP said Canada was once a symbol of the modern world but has recently become a “symbol of civil rights violation” under Trudeau’s “quasi-liberal boot.”
“We watched how you trample women with horses, how you block bank accounts of single parents so they can’t even pay their children’s education and medicine, that they can’t pay utilities, mortgages for their homes,” he charged, adding,
“To you, these may be liberal methods, for many citizens of the world, it is a dictatorship of the worst kind.”
Christine Anderson from Germany, member of European parliament, on Justin Trudeau:
“It would have been appropriate for Mr. Trudeau, prime minister of Canada, to address this house, according to article 144, an article, which was specifically designed to debate the violations of human rights, democracy, and the rule of law,” Anderson began.
“A prime minister who openly admires the Chinese basic dictatorship, who tramples on fundamental rights by persecuting and criminalizing his own citizens as terrorists just because they dared to stand up to his perverted concept of democracy should not be allowed to speak in this house at all,” the lawmaker continued.
She then ended her short speech with a bang, declaring, “You are a disgrace for any democracy. Please spare us your presence,” as the prime minister looked on.
Christine Anderson is anti-EU, anti-Islam, and anti-vaccine.
Mislav Kolakusic is also anti-vaccine.
But yes, keep providing the opinions of two clearly biased people to support your cause.
Don’t care. Anti-EU: sounds good to me. Anti-vaccine: sounds good to me. Regardless, many more feel this way. Try https://google.com.
Try better evidence…and try to post under the same name.
The evidence already exists! You don’t like the evidence. Sooo sorry.
You still haven’t provided any.
YES. I have. Vaccine injuries, serious ones, which the CDC and FDA have also admitted to recently.
Still nothing to justify Canada being basically a Totalitarian failed state ruled by a dictator.
I lived in Victoria BC during all of 2020 and it was absolutely glorious. No totalitarianism in sight. Just beautiful water views, gorgeous architecture, delicious food, fabulous fishing and wonderful people. Pretty good weather, too.
But, hey, deprive yourself of joy because you watch too much Tucker Carlson, that’s fine by me.
If you only knew how good life is in Canada. Everything you said is wrong. Crawl back under your rock please.
@Matthew: “U.S. official was incredibly rude”. Unfortunately, that is the norm. I wish it was different but most of officials from immigration and customs are rude and unpleasant. They do not make any effort to make you feel welcome. Not sure if it is they are jealous that you are traveling and they are not or any other reason but they are all from the same school I think. That’s why I love Global Entry. We have absolutely no interaction with anyone unless a customs agent wants to make our day a bit unpleasant but the fact that we skip all the stupid questions from immigration is worth every penny.
I have GE but it’s expiring and I don’t feel like doing another interview at another airport to be reapproved.. annoying. Also I wonder the politics behind these rude US officials. are they voting blue or red or not at all.
@Yes: I renewed my GE after it expired and I was approved without the need for a new interview. This is the second time I renewed it. The first time, I got my interview at the airport when arriving from an international flight. It is the best way since you don’t need an appointment and it takes 5 minutes as you were going to the normal process of immigration. The second time I was surprised and getting ready for a long process to either have to find an appointment for an interview or have to wait for next time I fly internationally but it was approved without the need to interview at all.
Thanks for the details, San. I just don’t understand why a second interview is needed. They can pull our records from A-Z already.
Do you think I should let it expire first and then try to renew and hope for no interview then? because right now the website states an interview is needed for renewal when I login
@Santastico: this was a young American woman (perhaps transgender) in a grey suit and crewcut barking orders like a Marine drill sergeant. Rude and arrogant and I called her on it…and put her in her place.
As for Global Entry, I’d happily pay $100 for each family member just for two international family trips we take per year, but the interview process to initially obtain it is too tedious.
@Matthew: unfortunately, nowadays you don’t even know how to refer to people. I have a theory that it is a mix of entitlement where they feel they have the power to make someone miserable (like many FAs) and jealousy where she would love to be the one traveling for leisure but she is stuck doing her job while seeing many people having fun. Poor souls!!!!
As for Global Entry, it is one of those things that you apply and forget about it. One day you will be called for an interview. I did for all members of my family and it is fantastic. It pays for itself. We all have GE, TSA Pre and Clear so it makes traveling, even if once a year, a breeze. With GE, I was able to get into earlier connections since we spent no time on immigration and customs. You would not be able to book those close connections but you get to standby and it worked every time. I would apply for all your family and wait. I have a great example with my wife EU citizenship. I am an EU citizen so are my kids but for my wife was a huge bureaucracy to get it and a very long process. We always said the process was too tedious until one day I applied for her. It took 4 years until once day she was called to go to the Consulate and get it. Now she is a EU citizen.
@Santastico….seriously!!! Jealous! That is the funniest thing I’ve read all day. Actually most flight attendants I know, including me, feel sorry for all the business travelers. We work on the flight and many of them do as well. We land and enjoy our layover while they’re off to meetings. In my 40+ years as a F/A, not one conversation from a colleague that said they were jealous of a passenger. I have traveled the World as I assume you have, and like you, have also been paid to do it. I have many days off unlike most of my other friends in other types of work. Are there bad F/As? Of course. Are there bad people in every other profession including yours? Absolutely! All these negative comments constantly about flight attendants leads me to believe that this jealously thing is the other way around. I have family and friends who have claimed the corporate are ladder. Do they make more than me? Yes. Do they make more than my household income? No. I just have a great flexible schedule with a lot of time off and they are work work working. Do I love my job? Yes. Do they love their job? Yes. Flight attendants walking around jealous? Thanks for the laugh.
@Flyern: read my post again. I am talking about the official, not the FA.
@Santastico–LMAO
“perhaps transgender”
Why is this even included and what relevance does it have?
Because in the heat of the exchange I wanted to say “ma’am” but chose not to because I did not want to misgender the official, which would have potentially reflected poorly on me.
It only reflects poorly on you if you use the wrong term after you are told what the correct term is.
No, it doesn’t reflect poorly. We have way bigger problems in this world than the delusional pronouns of the mentally ill. Try again.
I didn’t want anything to serve as a distraction from this official’s terrible attitude and customer service skills.
But still, there was no need to mention it, as it has probably has nothing to do with that person’s terrible attitude and customer service skills.
Aaron, why are you always policing the comments for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersex, and Asexual people? That’s my job.
Shush, troll.
My pronouns are bite/me
Most of us assumed it would be “asshat”.
What a burn! One for the books.
@Aaron: It is clear you are LGBT so good for you. There are only two ways a person can be born biologically and the chromosome combinations are either male or female. So maybe to make things easier, we should refer to people on how they were born biologically. I don’t give a s..t to what they feel like when I am referring to them in a conversation. Any other BS is people looking for attention.
So you say.
Thank you Santastico! Finally, a voice of reason among fools.
Not fools on this blog, Santastico. I did not mean any disrespect to readers or even to Aaron. I just find the constant prodding from Aaron bit annoying, hence my reaction. Apologies. Just think the pronouns are out of control at this point. Moving on
Questioning ignorance and bigotry isn’t prodding.
Gay people and trans people are completely different. You are ignorant. Really.
@Santastico
Except, as Matthew said, was at the gate…so you have to deal with them at some point.
wish Augustine’s hair was my own. kid is blessed AF to have hair like that. always wished for that as a kid.
I had the same experience when returning to the USA by land from Canada a couple of years ago. A surly officer with snarling dog sniffing around the car, zero courtesy – what a nasty welcome home! A complete contrast with our arrival at Rouses Point on the way into Canada. But that was to be expected.
The salad during lunch was generous, but no dessert? Guess it was offered for the pre-landing meal…but yes, that is a bit more food than others offer.
How does Heidi still only have a green card only?
There was dessert too. A chocolate tart:
Germany is very strict with dual citizenship and protecting that citizenship is more important right now.
My aunt and uncle got dual in Italy recently. So lucky. Sooo hard to get. Took years–with knowing people.
I lived in Victoria BC during all of 2020 and it was absolutely glorious. No totalitarianism in sight. Just beautiful water views, gorgeous architecture, delicious food, fabulous fishing and wonderful people. Pretty good weather, too.
But, hey, deprive yourself of joy because you watch too much Tucker Carlson, that’s fine by me.
Please do tell us about Heidi’s unfortunate interaction with the American official at AMS in a later post. I don’t like the idea of US officials operating outside of US jurisdiction (a reasonable exception would be preclearance), and I would imagine most Europeans wouldn’t like that on their home turf either. My understanding is that green card holders generally cannot be denied entry, so rude questioning seems unnecessary.
I’ll do a post on it.
I think that this type of work is mostly undertaken by staff with below average people skills, either because most employees don’t want the overseas postings or because management believe that antagonistic behaviour would discourage anyone who may be thinking about being a bit naughty with their immigration arrangements. The only time I travelled to the USA I got a proper grilling by someone who got really suspicious about my decision to fly from MAD even though I was not a resident of Spain. They even asked me how come I could speak Spanish, as if they had been talking about some forgotten dialect of rural Mongolia as opposed to a major global language that also happens to be pretty common in their own country! Not in a massive rush to return, although I will definitely do so at some point.
I’m just amazed Dutch officials don’t intervene. There are specific rules that are in place at Schengen borders that border guards have to follow, and they generally involve respecting the traveler’s rights. You aren’t treated poorly entering the Schengen Area because they’re not allowed to treat you poorly.
What gorgeous kids!
MK is one of the most blessed people on the interwebs
my first post; I just discovered this blog and love it. But what is it with this Aaron guy?
Just resident evil. Pay him no mind. Welcome! 🙂
Nah, just someone who points out other people’s ignorance and bigotry.
Does KLM flight attendants like the windows on the 787? I try to avoid that airplane at all costs for that reason. I am like Jack Ryan from Hunt for Red October i do not like turbulence so i cannot sleep on planes. I like to look out the windown.
Also on KLM narrowbodies what is the seat pitch in coach aft of the wing? Amanda and i fly KLM from Geneva in March on a 738 and just trying to see what i am in store for.
Pitch is 30 inches in economy 738 KLM
Someone commented this about KLM 738, it doesn’t sound great: “These seats are very tight, both width and pitch. They are quite uncomfortable, particularly for longer flights such as my flight from Tel Aviv to Amsterdam. I will do whatever I can to avoid this plane in the future. The ‘business’ seats are just the same as the economy seats, although in theory the pitch is 3″ more. Rows 15 and 16 have extra legroom. I am a small 5’4″ person and cannot imagine trying to squeeze in here if I were taller.”
Why are we talking about a 737-800? This was a 787-9
He mentioned it in his post: Amanda and i fly KLM from Geneva in March on a 738 and just trying to see what i am in store for
KLM is my favorite airline company, always a pleasure. The crew is always very polite and friendly.
I fly trans atlantic with them 4-5 times a year.
Was that a stopver in AMS or a connection? If a stopover, how did you book it,?
Stopover. 30 hours. Booked on the phone with Flying Blue.
Did KLM pay you for this review? I recently took a business class trip and the food was small in quantity and terrible in quality. Staff. Sure friendly in business class. Horrible to a colleague sitting in economy. He said they were crazy rude.
My experience with KLM has steadily gone down. Every time I fly with them. It’s probably one of the cheapest and rubbish quality airline in Europe. Barring BA.
No, KLM certainly did not pay or else I would have negotiated business class…
I also love BA. Sorry you’ve had bad experiences. I certainly have not.
Do you think it’s possible that at least some carriers flag you internally as a VIP, so even though you don’t know announce that you are one, you are?
Not a chance. Ben maybe, but not me.
I find it intriguing that someone found KLM’s 787s to be comfortable in economy. I’m not a serious frequent flyer, but I do get out some and get the assortment of airlines. In the past year, I’ve flown KLM, Lufthansa, Delta, United, and Air Tanzania. Without a doubt, the worst experience of them all was KLM on their 787. It isn’t even close. There’s nowhere near enough padding on those seats, legroom is microscopic and the bottoms of the seats dont slide forward when you recline, so if the person in front of you reclines, it eats what miniscule space you have. I found their seats literally painful, and my wife (average height) did as well. To make things worse, the flight crew insisted on serving dinner on the flight – at just a hair before 2 AM (by the time of the departure city, 1 AM by the arrival city), and woke people up to do it. One of the most clueless moves I’ve ever seen on an airline.
Interesting. That was not my experience at all.
Fascinating
M trying to match the meal with the emirates