American Airlines and Southwest Airlines will no longer offer medical or other exceptions to their mandatory face mask policies. All passengers two and over will be required to wear a mask for the duration of the travel journey, both on the ground and in the air. But is the disallowance of any medical exceptions to wearing mask legal?
American + Southwest Both Eliminate Medical Exceptions To Mandatory Mask Policy
Up until now, you could claim you could not wear a face covering for “medical” reasons and no one would really question you as long as you were not being obviously obnoxious about it. Not any longer.
Late yesterday both American and Southwest announced there would no longer be any masks exemptions with the exception of children under two.
That’s right. Effective July 27, 2020 on Southwest and July 29, 2020 on American, all passengers aged two and older will be required to wear a mask. No exceptions.
The American Airlines press release and webpage on masks does not address medical exceptions, so I asked AA on Twitter. The reply could not have been clearer:
Is This “No Medical Exceptions” Mask Policy Legal?
The Air Carrier Access Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in air travel. But there’s a fairly wide exception that should shield airlines from any liability here for violating passenger rights. From the U.S. Department of Transportation:
“While airlines may not refuse transportation to people on the basis of disability, airlines may exclude anyone from a flight if carrying the person would be inimical to the safety of the flight. If a carrier excludes a person with a disability on safety grounds, the carrier must provide a written explanation of the decision.”
“Inimical” means harmful.
Specifically, §382.19-21 holds that carriers can limit access to transportation on the basis that a passenger has a communicable disease, other medical condition, or simply a disability if the following conditions are met:
(1) You can determine that there is a disability-related safety basis for refusing to provide transportation to a passenger with a disability if you are able to demonstrate that the passenger poses a direct threat. In determining whether an individual poses a direct threat, you must make an individualized assessment, based on reasonable judgment that relies on current medical knowledge or on the best available objective evidence, to ascertain:
(i) The nature, duration, and severity of the risk;
(ii) The probability that the potential harm to the health and safety of others will actually occur; and
(iii) Whether reasonable modifications of policies, practices, or procedures will mitigate the risk.
(2) If you determine that the passenger does pose a direct threat, you must select the least restrictive response from the point of view of the passenger, consistent with protecting the health and safety of others. For example, you must not refuse transportation to the passenger if you can protect the health and safety of others by means short of a refusal.
Airlines may only request a medical certificate for passengers “whose medical condition is such that there is reasonable doubt that the individual can complete the flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight.” (§382.23). But there’s another exception in §382.23(c)(1):
“You may also require a medical certificate for a passenger if he or she has a communicable disease or condition that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight.”
Game over.
Practical Concerns
So we’ve established it is legal to ban passengers who refuse to wear a mask, but how will this turn out practically? Which agency would be responsible if a passenger is turned away and becomes combative? Airport police? TSA? DHS? Should the TSA be gatekeepers and not allow anyone past a security checkpoint not wearing a mask? Should police be posted at entrance to airports ensuring every traveler is wearing a mask? These details remain to be worked out.
CONCLUSION
American and Southwest have thrown down the gauntlet on wearing masks. Those medically unable to wear masks will need to fly another airline. And those with young children better ensure those little ones can keep their masks on during travel…
What are your thoughts on eliminating medical exemptions for mandatory mask policies?
American and Southwest did their medical homework and found out there are no real medical reasons an adult cannot wear a mask.
If one feels like medically they can’t wear a mask then they simply need to find a different mode of transportation or postpone their trip. If business related trip then they should send a team member at their company that can wear a mask . Others on the flight should not have their health compromised due to one not wearing a mask. These are difficult times and will only improve if we all do our part to make it happen.
As far as employees of the airlines they definitely need to wear a mask since they are in the presence of so many. If they feel they can not wear a mask then they shouldn’t be terminated but instead laid off without pay until pandemic is over. Theme here is to be kind and keep everyone as safe as possible.
Hope they go bankrupt!
There are people who traveling via air knowing that they are carrying the virus but yet refuse to comply with CDC request …and there are people who are just refusing to wear the mask claiming to have a medical reason when in reality they don’t…simply not cool. Let’s work together and comply with the airlines and get back to safe travels.
If it is unsafe to fly without a mask, then the entire airline industry should be grounded until such time it is safe to fly without a mask. Then watch how quickly things will turn around.
This. I am absolutely appalled that American, Southwest, United, Alaska and Jet Blue no longer allow exceptions fo those who have medical (and I presume psychological) reasons for not wearing masks. That they would just presume that everyone is a risk is also troubling.
Well said both Dale and Steve,
Also to respond to Elijah, I wonder if the Christians in Communist Russia or the jews in National Socialist German had that opinion.
“ Let’s work together and comply with the mandates on no Church, or wearing a yellow star, and get back to safe travels.” It sure seems everyone has amnesia as to what these power hungry kakistocratic sociopaths will do to you, IF you allow it.
PS – I was blown up by a mossad car bomb in Iraq and then run over on my motorcycle. I inhaled vapor and flames from 27 artillery shells and three propane tanks rolled in wax. And when I was run over I had my entire left sinus and eye socket crushed which have made it that when I first tried obstruction of my airway I passed out. I flew in May and June with out any issues. I am thinking of going home for Thanksgiving but it seems the communism and fascism is preferred to most of these people that commented than the freedom others, like myself, sacrificed much for in our lives. And now they are all okay with discrimination against me due to my injuries, because the media and a “man” who cannot throw a darn baseball tell them to be afraid. I will try to assert my rights as a disabled human, who is also a veteran and a Proud American. None of us in the military swore an oath to the government of the USA, but to the document that is a written proof of our God given human rights, if you would rather be sheep, move to israel or China and let the communists rule over you.
This is extremely sickening that grownups who have never worn a mask in their life, even when they flew when they had a cold or cough, and are now okay with forbidding other people who choose to or god forbid, CANNOT wear one of these because their sinus and lungs don’t function like yours. If you can call us all dangers to one another, than you will have no problem when the Government decrees all jews, or Christians or any other group, black, whites, etc, enforcing their mandates against any group they choose to tell you is a danger to you next. WE ARE NOT DANGERS TO ONE ANOTHER. They want to inject you with a vaccine for something that is 99.9% non lethal with something that is 94% effective folks. Please wake up before it is too late.
Respectfully,
EA Miller IV
US Army Infantry, Retired.
No, they didn’t do their medical homework. There are many medical reasons for not wearing a mask. The CDC guidelines state that those with breathing difficulties should not wear a mask. The airlines have just decided to ignore this and have determined anyone without a mask poses a threat. They may or may not get away with it. According to the ACAA, one must pose a direct threat to be excluded on the basis of disability. You can’t actually be a direct threat if you don’t have the virus. We’ll see how this plays out.
Just arbitrarily deeming everyone without a mask to be a direct threat is EXTREMELY troubling in my opinion. I hope the airlines don’t get away with this. But I’m afraid they might at least for a while. The question is how can someone get a test case started in the courts especially when some courts are shut down due to fear of the C19 cooties.
Pete is wrong but is probably close to the real reason. The airlines did their homework in an effort to avoid having to address the issue. I’m surprised that there is such a loophole to avoid ADA rules. If the airlines really want to get serious about all this they should require proof of essential travel. Anyone going on vacation or traveling for the sake of travel should avoid public transportation as they risk exposure to Covid19 or spreading it to others. re: https://community.aafa.org/blog/what-people-with-asthma-need-to-know-about-face-masks-and-coverings-during-the-covid-19-pandemic
I can tell you with certainty that there will be successful suits and settlements against the airlines (source: me as a disability attorney who has already won several cases similar to these against airlines)
Why don’t you send me some of those cases or redacted settlement agreements? It would make for a great blog post…
Peter, you’re absolutely right and it would seem to me that as long as a passenger is able to demonstrate that they are not a “direct threat” then the airlines have no leg to stand on, no matter how much Matthew Klint and the other commenters here, not to mention the airline industry, wish it were otherwise. I do hope that you find clients that will sue, and I do hope that you will win. Enough already with this covid-tyranny.
How would a passenger demonstrate they are not a direct threat when instant COVID-19 tests are not available in the USA?
Matthew,
Considering 72 hour negative test is widely accepted basis for many states and counties.
The burden of proof to prove a person has a communicable disease when they present a recent negative test is Prima facie evidence.
If they argue this they are shooting themselves in the foot for the transatlantic travel consortium.
§382.19 deals with a person positive for a communicable disease not the speculation.
IANA nor do I play one on TV or the internet.
So if a GA ot FA wants to practice medicine without a license that’s a while can if worms.
§382.11 What is the general nondiscrimination requirement of this part?
(4) You must not take any adverse action against an individual (e.g., refusing to provide transportation) because the individual asserts, on his or her own behalf or through or on behalf of others, rights protected by this part or the Air Carrier Access Act
From your post:
(§382.23). But there’s another exception in §382.23(c)(1):
“You may also require a medical certificate for a passenger IF he or she HAS a communicable disease or CONDITION that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight”
Again if one presents a negative test – the burden of proof is on the airline to refute, and likely would need to be a Doctor or medical expert (or an expert witness or a good attorney will eat their lunch in court or when deposed).
Mask poss challenges for persons and youth with anxiety, PTSD, claustrophobia, Autism spectrum disorder even high functioning and crossover with ADHD, and other medical conditions.
I construe the inability to wear a mask as a condition pursuant to §382.23 that allows an airline to ask for a medical certificate. Such a medical certificate is impossible to produce since there are no rapid tests available and therefore an airline may ban that individual from flying.
I do understand your point about the tension between what I write above and the notion of a new transatlantic testing regime. But since a test 72 hours old or even 24 hours old may no longer be accurate and there is no standard or law behind your “widely accepted” analysis, an airline should be free to block such individuals on public safety grounds, as long as it does so in writing.
If masks work and everybody else is wearing them, how exactly are they at risk form a lone person who cannot wear one?
That begs the question: Who is the burden of proof on? The individual to prove a negative, that he is NOT a direct threat? Or is the airline obligated to prove that the individual IS a direct threat?
To have the disease, “covid” is a disease. You have to have symptoms. HEALTHY PEOPLE DO NOT SPREAD DISEASE! The burden of proof is on those saying masks required. Prove there is a virus. Prove the mask is safe to wear. Prove the mask is for viral protection. My rights come from GOD not man. I have the right to life and that requires breathing. Nobody has the authority to regulate human breathing. No business can force you to take a test, put something on your body or force you to distance. The constitution does not get put on hold because of a “pandemic” We the people need to stand up and sue the crap out of these airlines or anyone forcing you to wear a mask.
There has never been a proven case of transmission of this “virus” NEVER! They can not prove it exists! ALL the orders and mandates are nonsense and illegal! There is no law requiring you to wear a mask. My body is my property! End of story! WAKE UP PEOPLE! Just say NO!
It would be impossible to show that a passenger is not a direct threat because rapid testing is not (yet) a procedure at airports and as some of the reporting mentioned airlines want but the administration does not want temperature checks at airports. Absent that a rapid test and/or thermal temperature scanning, a test from a couple days ago says nothing about your status now so a maskless customer is not reassuring to people forced to be confined next to you for hours. Since a passenger has no way to demonstrate their current infection status, they can’t demonstrate they are not a direct threat.
People also forget that once the plane is pressurized, it’s equivalent to being at an altitude of 6000-8000 feet. Someone who supposedly can’t wear a mask that has little resistance to flow (surgical mask) shouldn’t be able to deal with the higher elevation, either.
Airlines can also judge whether someone is ‘fit to fly’ or not. If you can’t wear a mask, it’s unlikely that you’re fit to fly and the airplane can argue that, in any case, it’s not safe for you to do so.
The majority of passengers don’t want to fly on a flight where a minority refuses to wear masks since the stated reason of masks is to protect other passengers not necessarily yourself. As people who don’t like wearing masks are viewed by some other passengers as being more likely to have engaged in activity that would put them at greater risk for being infected in the first place, it makes business sense to mandate masks. Just like Costco did awhile ago and many retailers are doing now. If people aren’t comfortable in your planes or stores, they won’t go or won’t go as often. Airlines are fighting for their survival so they’ll trade more passengers now for ADA lawsuits whose outcome is in the future. It’s not that hard to understand.
In any case, this will likely be covered in an eventual covid-19 liability shield.
I came across this site and these comments as I was doing my own research after this new policy came into play. I have a 4 year old who has a developmental delay, speech deficit (both diagnosed by his pediatrician), and has sensory issues. He is currently in speech therapy and occupational therapy, although now it is over Zoom (which is difficult in itself and has not helped with his development since this Covid mess started). We are currently in Oklahoma having a much needed visit to my parents, and have tickets to fly back to Tampa on Southwest this Tuesday, one day after this policy goes into effect. My 7 year old daughter has no problem wearing her mask, and wore it the entirety of the flight here. My son? He absolutely refuses. He doesn’t understand. No amount of talking or coercing will convince him to wear it. If I happen to get it on- he rips it off while throwing a huge temper tantrum. I’ve tried it all- superhero masks, bandanas, tried to bribe with candy- nothing works. We live in Florida so I’ve been working on him for months to try and wear a mask. So now Southwest is mandating a mask for everyone above 2- no exemption for those with disabilities. I thought, “how can this be legal?”. After seeing how they have the loophole (refusing a passenger because they would be “inimical to the safety of the flight”) it shows how they are getting away with discrimination. The GA and FA aren’t medical professionals but they can refuse due to “EVERYBODY BEING A CARRIER OF COVID”- I know it’s a pandemic, I’m not a dumb dumb- and my family and I take all other precautions (I bring Lysol wipes on the plane as I have for years)- but how can this mandate be a thing for VERY SPECIFIC situations and passengers?? I’m more than happy to bring documentation with me to show my son’s diagnosis. I am just a really unhappy mama bear at the moment. This is the first time I’ve truly felt as if my rights are being infringed upon in this pandemic in relation to my son. If I had the patience, I would attempt to fly Tuesday- DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, attempt to show everyone at the gate that my son will absolutely be screaming the entire time I attempt to hold the mask over his nose and mouth, which will completely traumatize him (me too) and if they refuse for us to get on the flight because he isn’t wearing his mask- and then SUE THE SHIT OUT OF THEM. I’ve never needed a lawyer in my life, but this might be the first time I’m tempted to call a disabilities lawyer. I wouldn’t have flown at all if we knew this was going to be a policy because I know how my son will react.
If your child was infected at the time of the flight and a mask reduces the risk of your child infecting others, their rights have to be weighed against the rights of the other passengers on the plane which didn’t enter at all into your post. Since you can’t prove that your son is not a direct threat because there is a risk that your child is infected – which is also a risk with every other passenger on the plane – a mask rule remains sensible as a risk minimization measure. So your son’s right to fly mask free and maximize any transmission potential to other passengers was weighed against the right of passengers to minimize their risk of infection by what is a serious airborne disease for which there is no cure and no treatment that is even moderately effective.
There’s also the issue of the people the passengers then come into contact with, such as passengers traveling as families to visit the grandparents who are probably at a higher risk for issues with covid-19. Most people don’t want to go from a hotspot like Florida and then potentially infect the grandparents because someone wasn’t wearing a mask on a plane. Other people, like our family, don’t go to visit the grandparents in the first place for the same reasons.
You’re right that the GA and FA aren’t medical professionals which is irrelevant – there is now a blanket rule. If you fly Delta, you’ll have to have your medical evidence evaluated by STAT-MD which will decide whether your son is fit to fly.
Change your Southwest flight to return the day before the policy comes into effect.
The issues will only be resolved if infections reach a low level in the USA or if rapid diagnostic testing becomes standard to board a plane. The latter seems very unlikely since rapid testing is a unicorn reserved for important people in the USA, unlike some other countries, while everyone else has to wait days for results. A vaccine would also be good but uptake would be low because of personal rights so I would expect masks to remain on planes as long as infections remain elevated. Few people want to travel with other passengers who insist on their personal rights to maximize viral transmission to other passengers. Mask policies also keep customers flying which is important to your ability to travel with convenience and for route pairs to remain serviced. At it’s core, the mask policies of airlines are a business decision which is about short term survival and lower job losses. Legal issues that result from these policies will be pushed into the future and would likely be addressed in an eventual liability shield.
I understand completely about the dilemma faced by parents with children possessing autism, cognitive or intellectual disabilities, and sensory issues….some children just refuse to tolerate a mask. Our family is grounded because our 24 year old daughter (requiring 24/7 total care) is cognitively unable to understand the use of a mask and she sensory-wise cannot tolerate anything covering her face. So sad! We had to cancel a planned trip from AZ to VA on United because of their zero tolerance policy. We obtained a letter from our daughter’s Physician explaining her disabilities and safely flew on Allegiant to the Midwest in August. Since that time, Allegiant has tightened up their policy, I was told because of pressure from the FAA, and now they have a zero exception policy, too. This issue needs resolution!
I think you would have a great case. The airline is wrongly presuming that every person even though without any symptoms, a positive test result or known exposure to covid, HAS a communicable disease. That is factually and legally baseless. There is simply no basis for determining that your son poses a “direct threat” which is the exception for denying boarding unless he is showing symptoms or has a positive test result.
Peter, what firm are you with? My husband was just kicked out of a grocery store (essential business) for not wearing a mask. He has a lung disease that makes wearing a mask almost impossible. He had a short list of 2 items. We do social distancing and order online for everything except some items our state will not allow to be purchased online. I would like to know if I have a case as well as possibly opening up a class action discrimination law suit for others who have been victimized for not complying to the mask order due to a disability.
That this mask policy for minors is total BS, I NEED TO FLY TO P.R AND THE ONLY WAY I CAN GET THERE IS BY PLANE, MY SON HAS A MEDICAL APPOINTMENT AND WE HAVE BEEN WAITING MONTHS, TICKETS WHERE PURCHASED AT FIRST ON MARCH, BUT THEN AIRLINE KEPT CANCELING SO WE KEPT ON MOVING THE APPOINTMENT DATE, NOW THAT EVERYTHING IS OPEN AGAIN WE HAVE TO GO TO THE APPOINTMENT, TAKE NOTICE THAT MY SON IS CURRENTLY TWO NON VERBAL AND BEING DIAGNOSED WITH PDD NOS OR ATYPICAL AUTISM(AS IS MOSTLY CALLED) AND SENSORY ISSUES HE HAS INNABILITY TO WEAR A MASK, NOTHING THAT TOUCHES HIS FACE OR HEAD, AND YES I HAD TRIED EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO MAKE HIM KEEP HIS MASK(I even glued a paccifier to mask and paid for a mask to be made from one of my old tshirts for smell purposes) BUT IS KIND OF IMPOSSIBLE WHEN HE IS SCREAMING AND SELF HARMING BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING TOUCHING HIS FACE, AND EVEN IF YOU TAKE IT OUT HE WILL KEEP SCREAMING AND SCRATCHING HIS FACE OFF FOR AN HOUR OR MORE, THIS POLICY IS DISCRIMINATORY IT DOESN’T MATTER HOW MUCH THEY SAY IT’S NOT IT IS, THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SOME PEOPLE JUST CAN’T EVEN WITH MEDICAL CERTIFICATIONS IS RIDICULOUS, THE CDC ON THEIR WEBPAGE AKNOWLEDGES THAT KIDS WITH DISABILITIES MAKE HAVE EXCEMPTIONS BUT AIRLINES DON”T? VERY HIPOCRITICAL IF YOU ARE CITING JUST PART OF WHAT THE CDC SAID FOR THEIR CONVENIENCE, PEOPLE GAVE DIFFERENT REASONS TO FLY, MAY BE FAMILY EMERGENCIES SO IF MY DAD WHERE TO DIE TOMORROW AND I NEDDED TO FLY, WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? GO AHEAD AND ASK MY DAD TO DIE ANOTHER DAY OR JUST MISS HIS FUNERAL AND THE CHANCE TO SAY MY LAST GOODBYES BECAUSE AIRLINES ARE BASICALLY JERKS THAT CAN’T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING SO SIMPLE, IF THEY ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT SAFETY PROCEDURES MAYBE THEY SHOULDN’T BE OPERATING AT ALL.
Every time I wear a mask I have an asthma attack, my workplace lets me wear a shield that I can breathe in. I just got off a plane with Alaska airlines and they would not let me use my shield even after I asked them if they were supposed to give me accommodations according to ADA and they said “no your accommodation is that you can fly with another airline,” now put a mask on.. So apparently other peoples rights to not get a virus override my right to breathe. I can not believe that the ADA can no longer give me any protection!
I am trying to reach Peter Doocey, the disability attorney. I am not on Twitter or Facebook. Thank you.
That begs the question how does someone get a test case started in the courts. This also begs the question: What about passengers who booked tickets way in advance. Like someone who has a medical or psychological reason for being unable to wear a mask who books an air ticket with UA, AA, WN, AS, or B6 either before any mask mandates kicked in or during the window of time when the mask mandates allowed for medical/psychological exceptions BUT for travel on dates when the airline allows for NO exceptions. Wouldn’t the airline be liable for Breach of Contract if it does not “grandfather” such passengers in? Because when someone books an air ticket that person enters into a legal contract with whatever airline. Perhaps the airline might refuse transport and offer a refund but couldn’t the passenger say no that’s not good enough and go to court for not only the cost of the air ticket but any damages resulting from being refused transport?
How can we get in touch with you should we have an issue with our son who has a disability and is not able to comprehend why he would need to wear a mask?
I have zero understanding of anything pertaining to the law in something like this. But, being the simpleton I am, is their ability to deny boarding to someone wearing an offensive graphic on a t-shirt the same? Or revealing clothing? Because we know the airlines have enforced this frequently in the past. Bottom line is the argument that the inability to wear a mask is deemed offensive and dangerous to the majority of passengers and proving a risk to comfort and safety
Is this really any different than, “No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service?” I don’t recall people protesting because they couldn’t smoke on a plane anymore (even when airlines made their own decisions prior to Federal law being mandated…i.e. Northwest in 1988)
I would like to know how airline can exclude me from flying with a disability if I have a certificate saying I do not have civil. I have proven I am not a direct threat to other passengers. Taking this further even if I do not have a certificate saying I am copied free how can you assume I am a carrier and a direct threat to other passengers.
I meant to say I have certificate saying I am corona free.
How could you have a test result saying you are not carrying Covid on a flight? There is no testing in the U.S. that has rapid results before you board a plane. That is absurd.
John, are you serious or are you just amusing yourself? Your certificate may be just like my passport, which is expired presently. If you are not an NBA player in Orlando right, your certification is probably outdated like my passport. NBA players are being tested each and every day presently. Come on, Man! This is a matter of life and death. Be for real.
Bring on the litigation.
Agreed.
Corporations too often will do the wrong thing – thus $140M settlement for Dr Dao UA 3411 dragging incident from overbooking,
Pre-COVID post Dr. Dao an involuntary bump could have netted you $10K cash.
Actually have asthma and have for 30 years frequently worn face masks to avoid pollen and mold triggers. You can sleep with them on at night which is handy where air conditioners are musty in hotels. I have no sympathy for those faking medical conditions so as not to wear a mask or for anyone standing in a line who lowers a mask to cough.
Also those with asthma have more risk of dying if they get Covid19. They should accommodate troublemaker passengers or concerned passengers to Delta, who make a telephone decision. Pass the buck.
Someone who has asthma is a troublemaker? I think people like you are the troublemakers.
Great move by the airlines. There should be no debate on this whatsoever, we have a collective responsibility to our communities to limit harm.
Interpreting “personal freedom” as the freedom to inflict harm on others (even potentially), which is what you are doing by refusing to wear a mask in an enclosed space, is an absurd argument. Anyone who is genuinely too ill to wear even a relatively loose face covering should certainly not be travelling right now.
If someone has a medical condition and cannot wear a mask, and there are many such conditions (not just asthma, and no, it does not mean that they are “ill” or are carrying anything that is communicable, which you’d know if you knew anything about health) and is traveling for any number of reasons that are “essential” (who are you to judge?), and they can prove that they are not a “direct threat” then you’re right, there is no debate. Except that there is no debate that they should be allowed to get on an airplane, no matter how much you gush over restricting people’s freedom.
There is no way for a passenger to definitively prove that at the time of check in they are not a direct threat. There are no rapid tests available at airports (or pretty much anywhere else outside of the White House). So a test from 48-72 hours ago says you weren’t a direct threat 48-72 hours ago, nothing about now. There are also plenty of selfish people who would test positive and not tell anyone about it and infect others – you can’t rely on people doing the right thing which other passengers are aware of. Look at the person that infected 16 people in their residence. Airlines want the Feds to put temperature scanners in airports but that’s moving nowhere either. So in the absence of rapid test and temperature scans and in the interests of airline survival, you have this. People don’t want to fly on planes where people aren’t wearing masks. Airlines don’t want to go out of business and airline employees don’t want to lose their jobs. Pretty clear where this decision is coming from.
Since when does mere assumption constitute meeting burden of proof? I thought the burden of proof is on the airline to prove the person IS a direct threat NOT the other way around. And wouldn’t the airline have to PROVE IT not just ASSUME IT? Since when does mere assumption
Airlines need to advertise for mask free flights. Then fly the planes directly into the sea. I mean there is a significant number of retired 747’s no?
You should be on one of those flights you piece of [redacted]. Nothing more “humane” than wishing harm to others in the name of… “health.”
Actually, it’s not “game over” at all, because the airline will need to prove you are actually a “threat” (i.e. a carrier of some disease) according to the language of the law. For instance, if someone comes in with a covid test from the prior 48-72 hours (something many countries are requiring to allow entry, which means that getting such results is both possible and there is precedent for this), and at the same time also presents some kind of medical certification stating that the individual cannot wear a mask, then the airline CANNOT make the argument that there is a direct threat, no matter how much you or most of the other individuals commenting on this site would like it to be otherwise. #toobadsosad
This is the basis of your legal argument? Or do you have something to add? And care to comment on the emerging medical consensus that those with asthma or other breathing impediments are still able to wear face coverings?
Please point me to the “emerging medical consensus” that asthmatics can wear masks? There is also varying levels of the condition. Someone who is well controlled may not have issues, where others , like myself, will and do.
What about psychological reasons as well?
A test from 48-72 hours ago says nothing about your status now. What other countries are requiring for entry is irrelevant since they’re not the USA and in any case, most of the countries that do require a test also require you to have a visa or be a resident, so you have a right to enter in the first place as Americans have very few visa-free travel options anymore.
There’s no physical medical condition for which you can’t wear a mask and you can get a medical certificate for anything. There are perhaps some psychological ones for why you wouldn’t like to wear one but the airline has decided that the health and safety of the rest of the passengers plus the survival of the airline outweighs accommodating direct threats.
Regardling other airlines, the Delta STAT-MD solution is clever, in my opinion, because it places a substantial burden on the passenger because of the wait time (around an hour), the uncertainty of the outcome which could disrupt travel plans, and the need to justify oneself to an independent medical professional. This will take care of most people since they won’t want to go through the process in the first place so will just decide to comply. I still prefer the blanket no exceptions policy. It’s a pandemic and people need to take it seriously.
Negative test means no COVID19 viral RNA (no virus deteced).
The lag time from infection to being infectious has been on average globally 7-10 days after exposure.
Although testing positive for the antigen after exposure is only about 12-16 hours lag time = a positive test means your actively infected, but not necessarily infectious at this point.
But your not necessarily a carrier or even getting sick if your body develops antibodies, just because of a positive test.
“At the moment the majority of the current Covid-19 tests that all the reports are coming from are using PCR,” says University of Sussex senior lecturer in microbiology Dr Edward Wright. “They detect the genetic information of the virus, the RNA. That’s only possible if the virus is there and someone is actively infected.”
PCR tests are used to directly detect the presence of an antigen, rather than the presence of the body’s immune response, or antibodies. By detecting viral RNA, which will be present in the body before antibodies form or symptoms of the disease are present, the tests can tell whether or not someone has the virus very early on.”
So someone who has a negative COVID test within the past 72 hours – is probably the safest person to sit next to on the plane.
My daughter has been working on the frontlines and was working in an enclosed space, Where everyone was masked (cloth) with another worker who tested positive (worked while not feeling 100% and a slight fever) but it was short lived and she recovered. I am at higher risk age and health group with HBP, so I was initially more concerned – with all the public facing contact she has.
I’m not dismissing what you write (and responded in detail in the other post), but let’s take a step back. What valid reasons do you see for someone refusing to wear a mask on medical grounds?
Mask pose challenges for Adults and youth with anxiety, PTSD, claustrophobia, Special needs, Autism spectrum disorder even high functioning and crossover with ADHD, and other medical conditions.
Fear of flying, heights, small/contained spaces, fear of suffocation and other anxiety driven maladies ‐ High blood pressure is problematic at Cabin pressure 75.3 kPa or 8K’ Oxygen level is reduced and CO2 rise its worse on the smaller single aisle (737/ A319/320) than A380 / 787 which cabin pressure is closer to DEN/JNB/MEX.
https://www.livescience.com/5910-carbon-dioxide-triggers-primordial-fear-suffocation.html
Hey @YoniPDX, @PeterDoocey and @Anti-covidtyranny you guys (or gals) are smart and know what is up. Would love to network with you as I am passionate about these unlawful mask policies and mandates. Are any of you public on social media or have some way I could reach out and connect with you, perhaps on Twitter or some such? I’m @lemuriangirl, love to connect – thanks!
I believe that when all is said and done, this will be viewed as discrimination if people have the will to take it through the court system. I don’t have reasons, that is for the judges to decide, but someone has to take a stand. Just like the recall of the mayor of Seattle. Someone has to start the process – and not the protesters either. I hope they do because in this time and age we need precedents that will stand to guide our actions.
If taken to court, I doubt any airline could show evidence that a passenger is a “direct threat” when not wearing a mask as is necessary to legally prevent a passenger from boarding a plane. The simplest argument is that if such a passenger were a direct threat, then it would be too dangerous to let him remove his mask eat or drink.