When it comes to actually honoring EU261/2004 obligations, it seems that most airlines will initially stonewall you, hoping that you will just give up. In the case of SWISS, a sharply-worded letter to the CEO did the trick.
A friend of mine was traveling with his wife and brother on SWISS from Rome to Los Angeles via Zurich last August. His flight from Zurich to Los Angeles encountered a four-hour mechanical delay.
He asked me to draft him a letter. Knowing that SWISS would almost assuredly initially deny the claim, I just drafted a short note:
I am writing on behalf of three passengers to request EU261/2004 compensation for a flight delay from Zurich to Los Angeles on LX40 on 27 August 2018. Our fight was delayed over 4.5 hours and we arrived into Los Angeles four hours late. Under EU261/2004, that entitles each of us to 600EUR in compensation.
[Passenger 1] – [Ticket number + PNR]
[Passenger 2] – [Ticket number + PNR]
[Passenger 3] – [Ticket number + PNR]For your convenience, I have included banking info below. Thank you in advance for your assistance in this matter.
The Denial
Unsurprisingly, Swiss responded with a denial of compensation, citing “extraordinary circumstances” for the delay:
Many thanks for having taken the time to share your experience. Your case has been assigned to me for handling and I am hence contacting you.
Your flight LX40 on 27 August 2018 from Zurich to Los Angeles was delayed. I would like to apologise for the inconvenience this caused you.
The Integrated Drive Generator system needed to be replaced. Safety has the utmost priority at SWISS. However, it is an unavoidable fact that flight safety shortcomings occur at short notice, and this cannot always be prevented. In view of the origin of this irregularity, no compensation is foreseen by current regulation.
You are nevertheless fully entitled to expect care and assistance for meal, refreshments and phone expenses. Thus, if additional costs have been incurred, please send me the different receipts or bills you are in possession if available in order to look into this matter and check what can be reimbursed to you.
I hope that you can understand that I am unable to comply with your wishes in this matter.
Yours sincerely,
SWISS
The Rebuttal
After my recent back-and-forth with Lufthansa, I went for the jugular in my response back:
Dear SWISS,
I am in receipt of your letter provisionally denying EU261/2004 compensation for the delay on my flight LX40 on 27 August 2018.
Your reason for for denying the compensation is not only unlawful, but unethical. Under well-established legal precedent, compensation is due and our flight delay does not in any way approximate an “extradorinaiy circumstance” that would obviate compensation. Simple delays for safety are not exempt from compensation requirements.
Please remit the 1800EUR to my account immediately. We will not go back and forth on this. A failure to remit funds by Friday, 14 December will result in a legal filing. This will only end up costing you more, so please do the right thing and provide the compensation I am entitled to for your delay
Thank you.
The Victory
That letter seemed do the trick. Swiss backed down, agreeing to pay out the compensation:
Thank you for your reply.
Your arguments have been carefully considered, thus after review of your file, I am pleased to inform you that the amount of USD 2 030.00 (EUR 1 800.00) will be credited onto your bank account within the next 15 days.
It would be our pleasure to welcome you on board again soon to regain your confidence.
Yours sincerely,
SWISS
The money hit my friend’s bank account a few days later.
CONCLUSION
As with so many ticketing issues, a threat of legal action alone is often enough to extract a clear and convincing victory. While airlines like SWISS will try to wear you down and hope you will give up, if you keep at it and the law is on your side, you will eventually prevail. Restitution cannot just be ignored because an airline or loyalty program believes it can get away with taking advantage of you. But you must fight the good fight, even if it takes months.
Consider this the final update on the matter.
> Read More: EU261 Delay Compensation: I Won, Lufthansa Lost
image: SWISS
What ever happened with the search for compensation for your Swiss First class flight?
@ Matthew — Bravo. Well done. I like your line “We will not go back and forth on this.” That has been my new motto lately. I am so tired of having my time wasted by companies.
Clicked on this thinking it was the outcome of YOUR first class battle with Swiss. Maybe I missed it but has that been resolved?
As far as this case, i’m bookmarking this post for future reference. This is an amazing example of being succinct and to the point as well as polite but firm. I bet they get 100 letters a day threatening legal action. If i was responsible for approving or denying claims for Swiss…this is one I wouldn’t gamble on. Nicely done!
Do you sue them in the states? or in europe?
No lawsuit necessary.
Did you win your fight with Aeroplan/Swiss and agree not to post about it, thus trying to point us to that summation in the conclusion?
Hi Matthew,
I read your article by chance.
As i have encountered similar issue, wanna to have some advices.
i took Swiss Air to VIE from HKG via ZUR in December 2019, the first leg at last divert to HKG airport after flying 6 hours and cancel finally. I, with my husband and daughter, were rearranged other flight to ZUR.
I used EU compensation form claim my right but no surprise denied by Swiss Air twice. I, then, sent an email to FOCA. After a month, Swiss Air bank in around HK$2,300 to my account without any notification or email. I wonder whats had happened. I sent email to Swiss for reason and got reply “no comment” because the case in under FOCA evaluation.
I, therefore, wrote a letter to FOCA explain my concern. FOCA replied promptly that amount of money is compensation, however the case still under evaluation, can’t given any details. If i feel dissatisfied, I can address the competent civil court.
I really feel hopeless the way of both Swiss Air and FOCA, would you pls suggest any possible method to fight back my rights on this issue?
At this point, I recommend a lawsuit. Use the Small Claims Tribunal in Hong Kong to lodge this complaint. Sorry it has been so rough for you. I believe SWISS acts very immorally when it comes to refunds.
thank you Matthew 🙂
Click bait for the Aeroplan first class fight. What is the update there?
Indeed…
I guess there are still *no news for you*… nor soup.
Matthew, excellent and I do hope you received part of that settlement for your expertise. You deserved it.
Happy New Year!
@Shaun it’s 600 for each of them
Matthew,
What ever happened with your SWISS/Aeroplan dispute? When I saw the headline I thought you had received full compensation for the flight you purchased when those tickets were canceled.
Based on the final sentence, I’m going to bet he signed some sort of non-disclosure agreement on that and this was a way of suggesting that it is possible to win if we’re persistent.
But maybe I’m reading too far into that. It would be awfully hard for Swiss to prove that….which is the brilliance of the writing.
Ah. I get it now. That might be the case. If so, we’ll never know. Matthew had a great case. Hope his persistence paid off and other similarly-situated people were successful.
What do you normally need to provide for the bank account information? Is it just the bank routing number and the account number? Or is there some additional routing numbers that are needed to ensure that the funds go to the correct account?
Still waiting for Aeroplan SWISS First Class update.
I went through the same thing with them. Same flight, different day, same reason, same boilerplate denial. After citing legal precedent they caved.
It’s annoying that they force their customers to go through all these idiotic steps to get the money they are legally owed.
My undestanding is that this post is your way of telling us that you won on your aeroplan issue but are unable to say it explicitly (maybe because of a non-disclosure agreement). Hence the “Consider this the final update on the matter”. Hope I’m right.
As a former Swiss Employee, I must say this is a clear case of compensation. When we had 4 hours delay I would always inform the Passengers of their rights and that they will get compensated.
It’s disappointing to read that Swiss first denied you as I always believed they are straight up and no hassle dealing with clear cases like this.
Happy your friends got paid in the end.
@warreng24
Just account number and SWIFT code is enough.
Routing code is not used anymore outside the US since the laat 30 years
Great question @warreng24 – I was wondering the same. But, @ron, any idea what to do if your bank does not have a SWIFT code? It appears many credit unions do not use SWIFT and instead defer you to the ABA routing number. What’s the procedure for that?
Transfers to an American Bank do not use a swift code, they require routing number and account number.
Hi Matt,
Based on your post on March 22nd ( https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2018/03/22/swiss-first-class-settlement/ ), you mentioned:
¨As for an update on my case — I can only say I have not signed any non-disclose agreement nor have I reached an agreement yet with Aeroplan. It remains my hope to avoid a lawsuit, but I will follow through on that promise if negotiations ultimately reach an impenetrable stalemate.¨
So, did you end up signing a NDA and won´t update your readers about this matter?
Even if he signed an NDA, he could still say “I don’t have anything to say about it” or something to that effect. Simply ignoring readers isn’t necessary.
On the flip side, the fantasy that this post is some sort of coded reference to the earlier incident is laughable. If there were any NDA, SWISS or Aeroplan could see right through it easily.
Face it, he lost.
Well… I wonder if he ever followed through on his promise of filing a lawsuit.
Or perhaps he found easier not to follow through on his promises, which some might consider not quite ethical…
@Ryan: Let’s not make any assumptions. Hopefully this post will be helpful to you for EU261/2004 claims and other issues you may face with airlines.
NDA it is, then. Congrats on your win(s)!
yaaa but he could still say he signed one…
2017 Swiss cancelled a flight from Stuttgart to Zurich connecting to Palm Springs . They put me on KLM connection through Amsterdam the next day. This connection was late and I missed my flight to Palm Springs. I was on an award ticket which KLM noticed in Amsterdam denying me my flight to Palm Springs. I had to buy a new ticket and a hotel overnight to go home next day. KLM nor Swiss compensated me. It was back and forth until I gave up !
Hi Matthew,
Thank you for sharing this Info. Me and my daughter got the WORST treatment for NORWEGIAN AIR they cancelled the MXP to LAX flight no notice, called them the day of our flight send us change of flight itinerary BUT with more than 24hrs delayed from our original flight schedule to arrive in LAX last June 2018, wrote and followed up for compensation EU 261 for 5 months, they ONLY paid for the hotel, food, train transportation, celphone bills WE incurred during the 24 hours delayed. After multiple phone calls to them, NORWEGIAN AIR send me an email that I need to go to court to for EU 261 because they INSIST its not their fault. KINDLY ADVISE US. THANK YOU
Man, I thought this was the Aeroplan debacle 🙁 It has potentially very useful learnings for the community at large, so I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t actually just sign an NDA and give the middle finger to your readers.
Right?
Hi Matt,
On January 4, 2018 at 8:57 am ( https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2018/01/03/aimia-demand-letter/ ) Credit wrote ¨We can hope you don’t sell out. Get some money and sign an NDA and don’t talk about it again.
If you get a check make sure talk about it etc etc.¨
and you answered:
Matthew: ¨I don’t plan on it…¨
It´s been a year and you have not provided an update on this matter.
Do you think this is an ethical practice? Under well-established customer precedent, compensation due in the form of an update would be greatly esteemed by your readership.
I guess that we have gone back and forth on this and you have not seemed to care about how you might look like to all of us that were supportive of your endeavor.
Hi Matt,
Following up on the research:
1) On January 2 ( https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2018/01/02/swiss-first-class-family/ )
Ryan wrote: ¨I call BS on your $44k gamble with the ‘hope’ of getting reimbursed, but congrats on the successful click-bait. Too bad you’re driving away readers in droves.¨
and you answered:
Matthew ¨I never said I spent $44K. And I can assure you this is not BS. I’m also confident my readers will understand why I am doing this and even if they disagree, respect my tenacity.¨
I could see your point and respected your tenacity; probably more than you, because you have not provided an update on this topic one year after it.
2) Matthew – January 2, 2018 at 3:00 pm
¨I believe my attitude is not childish. I also believe that Aeroplan had and still has an ethical obligation to honor the ticket issued. I believe this act shows determination, resolve, and the strongest possible evidence that I believe in my case. This will help my career in every avenue. Finally, your last statement is precisely correct. I have a clear conscience despite this being an arguably poor financial choice and certainly the biggest finical gamble I have ever made. Why? Because I believe I made the right choice in this case. It wasn’t about money.¨
Do you think that perhaps you might have an ethical obligation to honor your readers with an update?
If it wasn´t about money, why haven´t you failed to provide an update?
Do you folks really need it spelled out for you more clearly than this? Read the headline, read the last sentence. He clearly won the Aeroplan/Swiss suit, he just can’t talk about it. What a sense of entitlement to think you “deserve to know” just because you read his blog and benefit from all the information he shares at no cost to you.
Matthew, mazel tov!
@PHLflyer,
It might be the case that he won, but as you can read on my other comments, Matt clearly stated that he had not signed an NDA, that he was not planning on it, and this wasn´t about the money.
He also stated that he ¨need to resolve the matter with Aeroplan before all details are disclosed¨, but no details were disclosed.
Don´t you think it would be a good practice (ethical?) to provide an update since this was never for the money (nor the clicks) and follow up on his statement to provide information to the readers of this blog?
Hi Matt,
On January 2 and 3 ( https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2018/01/02/swiss-first-class-family/ ) you wrote:
Matthew -January 2, 2018 at 10:10 pm: ¨We will see how it turns out, but they cannot sell me a reservation with Aeroplan points then later decide they do not want to accept that form of currency.¨
Matthew – January 3, 2018 at 5:03 pm – I’m allowing your comment to document how narcissistic YOU and others are for failing to appreciate the reason I am doing this. I am confident that when all is said is done, I will not be the sucker. But, thanks for your input.¨
I would like to follow up on who you were referring to when you wrote that ¨we will see…¨. Your readers have not received an update on this matter yet… should we let it go…?
On December 15, 2017 at 8:04 pm Gene wrote ¨@ Matthew — Let it go, let it go , let it go.¨
and you answered: ¨Love the song, but going to have to disagree in this case.¨
Are you asking us to let it go by not providing information?
Hi Matt,
Just to make sure we are all in the same page, you did write on January 11, 2018 at 4:56 pm ( https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea.com/2018/01/11/swiss-first-class-worthwhile/ )
I’m sorry you feel that way. I need to resolve the matter with Aeroplan before all details are disclosed. I’m sure you can appreciate that. I’m not sure why it should matter if I paid $15K or $5K per ticket…I was writing about whether I found it worthwhile. I did.
Did you mean that you were going to disclose all details? Or after all the hours that this matter has taken you do not think your readers deserve an update?
@Matthew
It is quite wicked of you to publish this; obviously most readers will see the header and assume it’s your story. There’s a term for that: click baiting, if I’m not mistaken. So : tricky albeit clever.
But I skipped the beef in the Air France lounge just for you.
Hi Matt,
Based on your answer to @Ryan and @Paolo, it is reasonable to assume that you have read the comments in to this post.
Several of your readers have asked you about the Swiss – Aeroplan fiasco, very much publicized by you in the past.
Don’t you think it would be a good ethical practice with your readers to answer any of their questions?
Yeah, so much for the “I’m doing this for the benefit of the community” bit (which no one really believed).
He figures that by his silence, some of the audience will assume he “won” (whatever that means) and that’s enough to satisfy his goals. And he’ll not have to admit defeat or lie.
Keep in mind even if a settlement occurred w/ Aeroplan, it could be anything from $1 on up in value.
Hi Santi,
I have nothing further to say on the matter. Thank you for your persistence. Sometimes policy change is best accomplished out of the limelight but eventually comes to light.
Thanks for replying; even though you didn´t quite provide an answer into what happened.
It might be reasonable to infer that since you have nothing further to say and it´s been over a year in this topic, you are asking your readers to ¨let it go¨ by keeping us in the blind and ¨go pound sand¨.
I truly hope that whatever compensation or learning you got from this fiasco was valuable for you.
FWIW, in the future, as a reader, I personally believe it would be valuable to not over-promise and under-deliver in relation to your potential legal actions. It might be a way to not loose face nor credibility.
All the best!
I personally don’t think Matthew owes us everything. Seems very ethical and honest in all his dealings and even if this case doesn’t work out it’s been an interesting read and provides another point of reference.
Will say headline did have an implied answer to the big matter though haha!
But I’m not going away “disappointed” and “angry” that it was an article about another matter.
Btw as is human nature probably 90% of readers are just waiting (and hoping) for an article where you admit defeat. Lol. Sad.
Schaudenffraude.
People like blogs because they would assume that one person running a show would be more interested in truth by principle. Based on the comments and update that is provided I know that Matthew is like any other public media is not interested in his readers, but in him self and uses blog for personal interest. Like media that is how you will start loosing attention.
Oh trust me, I am interested in truth by principle. Sorry that doesn’t include the type of explanation you feel entitled to.
I do not feel entitled to anything. Just pointing out the obvious and your response is just a confirmation.
I was supposed to fly on Swiss Air but due to issues with the exit door which I had paid for upgrades, I was denied boarding that night. I was rerouted on Emirates the next day. I never received my bag. After 17 days I came home and found my bag. We went back and forth and Swiss Air refused to pay for my hotel charges. Can I claim compensation?
Congratulations on your win(s)! I also like the line about not going back and forth. I think I’m gunna have to sue Staples over something similarly stupid. If only they had granted my request the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd time I asked. C’est la vie.
Btw there’s a typo: extradorinaiy.
What most people don’t get is that there’s a difference in Swiss law and EU law regarding the regulations.
Under Swiss law a mechanical issue can be regarded as extraordinary just as a delay does not automatically yield compensation as it would with EU law.
This is due to the fact that only all regulations and ruling from before 2006 have been taken over in to Swiss law. Swiss courts are not bound by any further rulings by EU courts after that date regarding that law.
When one of the legs touched EU soil (not Switzerland, as it’s not in the EU) EU law is however applicable. Swiss, however, will always base themselves on Swiss law first until you directly tell them that you are going to proceede at location XY (departure or arrival airport in the EU) which falls under EU law they will give in.
You are, however, screwed when you flew from say africa over zurich to america, in which case the flights only touched swiss soils and therefore the much less extensive swiss interpretation of the EU law is applicable.
I just received my EUR 1200 check in the mail today for a flight cancellation/rebooking on a later flight in Sep
2018.
There was no EU country involved, I was on a 16 hour layover in ZRH between OSL-LAX and they canceled LX40 with a few hours’ notice. Swiss Air basically told me to go f– myself when I sent in the initial compensation claim this past February, so I filed a compaint with FOCA – it’s relatively easy to do: https://www.bazl.admin.ch/bazl/en/home/good-to-know/air-passenger-rights.html
Lesson here is, don’t give up!
Hi Ursula, I experienced the same situation last month and also filed a complaint to FOCA. It’s been a month since then, and I’m still waiting for the compensation. How long did it take for you to get the paycheck?
I have the same issue with Swiss. Flight from Zurich to jfk was cancelled a day in advance of the flight date due to maintenance issues. I was put on the next available flight the following day – so 1 day delay. I have filed the claim with Swiss but I’ve gotten the same boilerplate response from them apologising and indicating this was extraordinary, which is clearly isn’t. They have just closed my case so I’m now tempted to use your email as template to write to the c suite @swiss. Swiss are one of the worst airlines to uphold legitimate claims. They hide behind email.
I appreciate the advice from this writeup, but this screams of privilege. At least in the US, the resources required to wage a legal battle are restricted to a certain class and often race.
The threat of legal action is thus often deployed by wealthy white Americans onto those with less capital and social status than them. Just wondering if you had any awareness of this context