Live and Let’s Fly has been silent the last three days as I weighed how I wanted to cover what happened to me on a United Airlines flight from Newark to Istanbul last week. The situation was both traumatizing and highly embarrassing and I wanted to ensure that I had ample time to consider what transpired before hurling any accusations or failing to understand the other side. But frankly, the more I replay the incident in my mind, the more certain I become that I was wronged. Here’s my story:
Last Thursday I was scheduled to fly from Newark to Istanbul on United’s direct flight. The 767-300 was outfitted in a two-cabin configuration, staffed by a legacy United crew, and I had been upgraded to business class. It was my first time on this reconfigured aircraft and my first longhaul in the Continental BusinessFirst seat. Naturally, I wanted to provide a review for you.
As I settled into my seat, I pulled out my iPhone to take a few pictures of the seat. When I held the phone at forehead level to take the picture below, a flight attendant came running over and told me that I could not take any pictures of the cabin. She referenced this section of the Hemispheres magazine:
The allegedly off-limits picture:
I looked at the FA, smiled, but said nothing, putting my iPhone away. To be clear, I did not take any more pictures—not a single one. Meanwhile, another passenger was taking pictures behind the curtain and the FA ran over to him and demanded that he stop as well. This passenger had a lively discussion with the FA, though I did not hear the resolution.
Naturally, the FA’s warning bothered me and I felt the need to explain myself. I signaled for her to come back and asked her to hang my coat. I then said this verbatim—
“I want you to understand why I was taking pictures. I hope you didn’t think I was a terrorist. Here is my business card [offering her one]. I write about United Airlines on an almost-daily basis and the folks at United in Chicago are even aware of my blog.”
She took my jacket but refused to take my business card saying, “No, that’s okay,” then saying, “I did not know that” after I explained my reason for taking pictures. I again emphasize, I took no more pictures.
A few minutes later a Global Services rep came onboard and asked to have a word with me, motioning for me to follow him. As I walked up front, I noticed the FA who had reprimanded me earlier ducked into the front galley and out of sight.
He was direct—”The captain is not comfortable with you on this flight. You’ll need to gather your things and we’ll find another way to get you to Istanbul.” I was flabbergasted. My first thought was that they had the wrong passenger—they must have wanted the passenger who was arguing.
The GS rep stepped into the galley, around the corner, and asked the FA to verify it was me. She leaned forward, our eyes briefly meant, then she quickly hid herself again. Yes, she meant me.
I asked to speak to the captain—surely this was a ridiculous misunderstanding. The GS rep would not let me approach the flight deck but offered to talk to the captain on my behalf. He stepped into the cockpit for a few minutes and a few minutes later the captain emerged. He would not look me in the eyes as we spoke.
Captain: Sir, you are not flying on this flight.
Me: Can you tell me why?
Captain: My FA tells me she told you to stop taking pictures and you continued to take pictures.
Me: That’s a lie, captain. She told me stop taking pictures and I stopped. I did try to explain to her why I was taking pictures—I am a travel writer [I offered him one of my business cards and he too refused to accept it].
Captain: Look, I don’t care. You are not flying on this flight. You can make this easy or make this difficult. We’ll call the police if we have to.
Me: Why are you threatening me? Your FA is lying—I did not disobey any crewmember instruction.
Captain: Look, we’re already late. I’d advise you to get off this plane now. Make it easy on yourself. Don’t make us bring the police in. Goodbye.
Me: Wait. Captain, may I have one of your business cards?
Captain: I don’t have any, but United will have no trouble finding me. My name is…[removed].
With that, he turned and retreated back into the flight deck, with the female first officer looking on.
I looked at the GS rep and shook my head. I walked back to my seat, opened the overhead bin, and retrieved my garment bag and rollerboard. There were whispers throughout the business class and Economy Plus cabins as I made the walk of shame down the aisle.
Again, I was asked to step off the aircraft and said, “Just as soon as I get my coat back.” The only FA who knew which coat was mine was still hiding somewhere, so she had to be found in order to retrieve my coat. I never saw her again.
As I walked down the jetway and back into the terminal, I remarked, “I want you to note that I was cooperative in your report and that the FA lied about me taking further pictures.”
The GS rep was very understanding, said he sided with me and claimed that he had done his best to make my case to the flight crew, but they “jointly decided” I would not fly. I had a connection in Istanbul that I would now miss—there was no way to get me into Istanbul in time to make my connecting flight to Baku on a separate ticket.
We began working on alternative arrangements that would preserve my upgrade to business class to Istanbul. Because of the sold-out cabins on many routes and my desire to have a decent rest (i.e., not just fly to London or Barcelona with five hours of sleep), I was ultimately rebooked to fly to Istanbul via Washington and Kuwait City, with the final segment on Turkish Airlines in economy class. But I had to buy a new ticket to Baku, which set me back another $225. I won’t blame United for that, but this situation comes down to one glaring problem:
The FA lied. Yes, she outright lied about me, falsely stating that I flouted her order and continued to take pictures. The blame lies almost entirely with her. I’ll return to her in a moment.
The captain was unprofessional and weak—he could not even look me in the eyes when he spoke to me and he was not at all interested in what I had to say. I believe I am being quite charitable to say I understand his considerations. The problem boiled down to a “he-said, she-said” situation and I don’t begrudge the captain for trusting a member of his flight crew over me. But he also had no interest in getting to the bottom of what happened; he just wanted to get the flight underway. And the condescending and downright nasty way he spoke to me is no way to talk to anyone, let alone a 1K who has held elite status on United for one decade.
But the true culprit is the FA here. Even though the 9/11 attacks were over a decade ago, maybe I should have never used the word terrorist in my explanation. Maybe the FA was not used to a passenger defending his action. But whatever the case may be, nothing can justify the fact that this FA lied about me.
Even if I give her the absolute benefit of the doubt—that though I did not take any more pictures she genuinely feared I would be a safety threat to the flight—that does not give her license to state mistruth that impugns my character. And if she was indeed scared of me, how pitiful is that? Indeed, the terrorists have won when 11.5 years after the attacks U.S. citizens are scared of a camera onboard an airplane.
This was not an issue of privacy—the real impetus behind United’s onboard photography guidelines above. You can see that the picture of my seat did not compromise anyone’s privacy. Instead, I believe the FA simply could not fathom why I would want to take pictures of my seat and therefore deemed me a security threat and lied in order to get me off the airplane.
Not only did this episode publicly defame me, it made me question my loyalty to United. I’m not some kettle traveler making a baseless loyalty claim. Regular readers know that I am extremely loyal to United Airlines, fly them often and almost exclusively, write about them even more often, and have accrued nearly 950,000 lifetime flight miles with United—I’ll be a 26 year old million miler flyer later in the year.
I have no regrets about this incident (other than not being able to take the flight). I did nothing wrong and the FA who lied about me should be held to account by United. Surely, a liar is more of a security threat than a passenger who wants to take a picture of his seat.
United has not been contacted yet, but I will send them a copy of this story. I welcome an investigation into this incident and encourage my seatmate or any of those seated around me on the flight to chime in should you come across this story. I have nothing to hide other than my humiliation for being thrown off a flight on the pretense of a mistruth.
Update: United Airlines Responds to Photo Incident
This makes me sick. There is no excuse for how you were treated. Beyond a power trip, the only thing I can think of that would lead to this would be use of the word ‘terrorist’. Maybe not the best word choice on a plane in this hyper-nervous world we live in, but there is no reason why that should have led to this happening.
If taking pictures were ‘illegal’ I should have been kicked off many flights, including my one flight on a reconfigured 767-300 like you were on which I reviewed. Your response to the irrational request by the crew was probably better and more polite than mine would have been. And for that you got booted?!
This is unbelievable. United owes you a major apology.
Hear, hear!
What an overreaction! It doesn’t make any sense that another, far less cooperative passenger wasn’t also taken off the plane. It sounds like they didn’t do much to see your side or to adequately compensate you. They should have paid for the $225 ticket just to spread some good will. None of us should be treated this way.
I used to be a loyal United customer, but the dreadful decline in service and the Mileage Plus program has led me to hunt around for something else. So far Singapore Air is my airline of choice since I travel to Asia a lot.
I hope United reconsidered how you were treated.
My question to you is why you felt you had to follow up on the incident. Just put your phone away as asked and be done with it. There was no need for you to have your way and explain yourself further. I get the impression you felt wronged at being asked to stop taking pictures and you needed to vindicate yourself. So, you felt the need to explain yourself. This is partially your own fault. It doesn’t matter how many times you fly, who you are, your job or why you’re taking pictures. Abide by the rules like everyone else. If you are a travel writer, you should have known these rules and most importantly ASKED permission to take pictures of the craft. No sympathy here. The other passengers did as told and let it go. He made his flight.
Kirk: Seriously? You blame Matthew because he had a conversation with the FA to try to make sure she understood why he took a picture (that he didn’t realize was not allowed). The only person at fault here is the flight attendant who lied. She’s the real risk. If she lied about something this minor, what does that say about her ethics? Is she afraid that he might video her doing something wrong that she does often?
Clearly the offender here is the FA who should not be flying with any airline. We are at a point now with these entitled flight crews that if we even roll our eyes they deem us a “threat” and can toss people off the flight. Flights that in many cases cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
I decided to not to fly United ever again 5 years ago after a FA in a very bad mood kept treating me like trash, even though I was flying business back from HK and after I politely asked what was the reason of the harsh treatment, then I heard back: you know you can be arrested for that? That what? Well, I decided not to engage, who knows what they will say to make it an arrestable offence. After that I said to myself that they will never see my money again and every other week I see episodes like this on the news and I see united spending a lot of money with publicity and nothing in educating their cabin crew.
As a long time gate agent with a more reputable airline, your FA was behaving badly and pulled her captain into her mess. He was almost obligated to stand up for her and make sure the incident didn’t delay the rest of the passengers.
I haven’t ever read your column. It is very well researched and enjoyable to read.
What I am surprised by, is that you would even utter the word “terrorist”. It is extremely taboo on any aircraft, or for that manner inside any airport, as with other terrorist-related terms. It was the FA’s obligation to mention this word mentioned in your response to the captain, and that is also what determined his “no fly” decision.
Flight crews have all sorts of things happening on airplanes that haven’t happened in the past and that is why the tolerance is lowered on what constitutes threats to the flight crew.
United will most likely stick by their flight crews decision. And that is why you paid for the new ticket. Airlines cannot just “Comp” these like we could in the old days. Those days are long gone.
I totally agree with you Kirk.
Kirk don’t let these kids scold you, I agree with you 100%. No reason for this guy to go back to the FA after she just had not 1 but 2 discussions about not taking photographs. She didnt make the rules. With the pompous attitude, you wouldnt be on my flight either. You are not privileged here just because you’re a 1ker. Who cares, we all follow the rules.
The remark about “terrorist” was uncalled for. As a white guy you were using it mockingly, you realize they’re terrorists because you came to their country and destroyed their lives, homes, families. To them, they are freedom fighters.
Honestly I’m really trying hard not to call them a C word and an F word and every word in the dictionary. And love to be a judge and see this as a complaint and United stand and try to argue that a picture of a scene meant that it was worth the 300 extra dollars some b word runing my flight and I’m tired and want to go to sleep as it’s a long flight ahead. With the coward pilot and the whole dilliema with looking at the shame walk. It’s too much. Love to see a judge smash these idiots with a huge lawsuit. U should be able to sue for emotional distress and there needs to be a big over haul to laws past 9..11 policies which let’s be honest after that day they became paranoid as shit. Everything was a attack to them. Even if u said the word. They took it as a threat no one said a threat they inturute that there way. They should be fired. Stupid as hell. The guy who was beat up dragged out was a better end them this at lease he won millions fuk united. Friendly asswopping skies.
i never fly Untied after they killed my friend, i hear fomr maintenance staff and it is a nightmare and the FAA does nothing
My goodness Matt….this is HORRIBLE. Brave You to keep flying them again. I’m a traveller myself however not as forgiving as yourself over the past 25 yrs i managed to score only one airline on my permanent BROWN (poopoo) List: SQ for a much smaller thing: refusing to check my bag thru underline SQ to LH. It’s been 10 yrs already, and I manage perfectly well to manage getting anywhere on the 972 other airlines without using or missing SQ. Now back to your incident recalling all flights I’ve taken I’ve noticed the following trend. Low costs carrier crews when they see me taking pictures will offer me taking a picture with them should I desire so. The only time I was verbally warned not to take pix (of the cabin crew only, anything else was fine) was on CX flights, therefore I’d assume that it was CX policy “no pics of cabin crew” anything else….seats cabin ambiance etc was ok to picture. I’ve never flown UA before. I’m about to fly them on multi leg trip in 2 weeks, but after your story (And some other stories that made it big time in the Media) I’m seriously question whether my upcoming trip on UA will be the first and the last one. Stories like yours are genuinely disturbing (My goodness getting removed from a flight…what could be worse than that!!!) Tiz one sure way airlines to lose customers, because as a PAYING revenue customer you effectively are paying the cabin crews salary, and in the service industry….some BITCHY Stus simply have departed from courtesy good manners etc, which by itself ultimately damages their employer irreparably
I agree with you Kirk
Kirk, you are 100% correct. Follow the rules, or better yet, know the rules ahead of time (as he should have) and don’t have a sense of entitlement. I wish more of these travel vloggers would get kicked off flights because a majority of them really don’t offer anything valuable or very useful. Way too many are posting very amateur quality videos with the camera focused on themselves for a bulk of the time making this all about themselves versus the actual travel. Josh Cahill & Sam Chui are about as narcissistic and ego-maniacal as you can get. Josh also is arrogant and has displayed rude and offensive behavior on some of his flights and whines when he thinks he was “mistreated”. Only the best of the best should be given any privileges because most of them out there are really undeserving along with their inflated egos.
I don’t even know where this should go in this thread…Maybe Matt expected some common sense? Obviously the “terrorist” isn’t going to joke about NOT being a terrorist, maybe he mistakenly believed that people are intelligent and wouldn’t jump to conclusions or overreact.
So, how about a 3 foot tall sign with a neon yellow background and giant black letters that say: No speaking on the flight, especially do not use the words BOMB, TERRORIST, TERRORISM, 9-11, FIRE and I mean every word you don’t want said out loud, EVERY. SINGLE. WORD. that you don’t want uttered because apparently not one person is capable of being a rational human being and not being offended. I have never been witness to anyone assaulted by airline reps but my brother is a mechanic for NetJet and used to work for American Eagle before that… I do NOT fly any American Carriers. I encourage anyone to feels mistreated to report and sue for damages. Let legal sort it.
I agree with Kirk
You sound like a whiney, pompous, mil-lineal crybaby that didn’t get your way! So you tried the “Do you know who I am“ routine and it got you what you deserved. Kicked off the flight. The CA has final say of who is on his aircraft. You were caught doing something wrong, you were corrected, it bothered you to the point that you couldn’t take being “told”….. you tried to present your card …. like that’s gonna make anyone give a hoot! Arguing with the flight attendant who told you to stop taking photos so you call her over to use a “take care of my jacket” request to inform her that you believe your special so your allowed to break the rules….Just from your writing style I’m sure your speaking tone was one of “let me tell you something!”
Next time when you get asked to do something, hopefully you will remember, no one cares who you are. No one cares about your mileage! If you are perceived as a threat or possible problem it’s wayyy easier to get rid of you before take off than to deal with your attitude for the next several hours!
Steve-O, I love what you wrote, but please learn the difference between YOUR and YOU’RE. Otherwise, love your opinion which was spot on.
You allowed yourself to get into a power struggle with the flight attendant. Not a good idea. Then you used the T word, not a good idea. You fly all the time, you more than a lot of people really should know the rules that are sitting in front of you.
The BS about not being a terrorist was uncalled for. You could have just said vlogger, reviewer, travel agent, but you felt you had to get in her face about not a being terrorist. You’re lucky the air matshall didn’t get involved – likely she let him know your seat # when you thought she was cowering away in the galley. If it was my flight, I would have called the gate to have you thrown off, and there would have been no discussion.
You’re just as ignorant as the writer of this article. United Airlines magazine says no photographs. He’s a 1K traveler and he doesn’t know the rules????? I am a former flight attendant and most 1K travelers in my opinion should be on no fly lists… They think United owes them… They are obnoxious and needy and most believe the “Rules” don’t apply to them. Hooray for the Captain that had his flight attendants back!!!
I’m surprised the author with so many miles flown didn’t know he wasn’t supposed to take a picture. Was this “story” designed to scare people into compliance? Evidently phones and computers have become devices terrorists can exploit, spooking airline workers out of their ever-loving minds.
I was making a connecting United flight in the same airport when this happened and videotaped one of the 3 Chicago aviation cops Trying to taser this Dr. David Dao after him and the 2 others knocked him out and dragged him off of united flight # 3411 in the terminal but the same Chicago aviation cop confiscated my I phone 5C. Then told me I would be arrested for interfering with their ongoing investigation unless I went ahead boarded my flight or else to Washington D.C at once! Since he had just assaulted this united passenger I was in fear for my personal safety and was thinking I was next. I will skip dealing with flying United ever again and will tell my co-workers at LogistiCare Solutions to do the same since this was for a business trip for a convention I had to be at last week in the Chicago, IL area! This same Chicago aviation cop refused to give me his name and badge number at all!
IF NO PASSENGERS YOU UNDERSTAND THEN NO JOBS FOR THE PILOTS, AIR HOSTESSES, AIR LINES NO BUSINESS.
DONT TREAT THE PASSENGERS AS CATTLE.
I left UA 15 years ago due to their service. The FA was in the wrong here and it goes to show how power can be misused.
I agree with Kirk et al.
I prefer to fly with people who have class, not attitude.
Honestly, you would do better to hire yourself out as a “secret shopper” to the major airlines, if such a thing could exist, now that each passenger’s cyber profile is known to staff.
I worked for United Airlies for 29 years. Worked weekends, holidays, missed my kids games, etc. Got rid of us after Sept 11 without batting an eye. Was still loyal to them and flew. My daughter and friends were on a flight and some mixup with online ticket purchases was kicked off the plane ad left to figure things out for themselves. $1000 later they got home from NYC. Gave her my miles and money from a previous cancelled ticket. We will NEVER fly UA again because of the way they treat customers and employees. FA for UA .. smh. Not a surprise at all.
so right
Matthew,
You have over 200,000 hours flying to over 120 countries but you were not aware of United’s policy on taking photographs and yet you still feel qualified to call yourself a Travel Consultant?
If you don’t like United’s policy on taking photographs fly Delta.
Oh wait, Delta has the same policy, fly American.
Oh no, American has the same policy.
Perhaps Greyhound needs a Travel Consultant.
I complied with United’s photo policy. Not sure what you mean…
I do. Some people just need to take others down to prop themselves up. You sir are half my age and based on your impressive bio, have achieved more than I ever will with regard to travel and education. I enjoy your blogs, your insight and your experiences. Keep it up my friend!!
You didn’t though. The policy is literally in black and white yet you felt exempt to that rule and took pictures anyway. Also, why would you even mutter the word “terrorist” on a flight?! You did this to yourself.
You’re wrong. The policy did not prohibit pictures at all. Where are you getting that?
Read the policy again! He was not taking a photo of anything prohibited! FA is a liar! FA aren’t very bright to begin with! The Captain has no spine!
Why is it that this sounds like my 18 year old son embellishing a story while leaving out details? Why is it that I think that you took just “one more” photo when the FA wasn’t looking?
Why did you not just show them the pictures on your phone (which are time stamped) to prove there were no pictures taken after your initial conversation with the FA.
Hrs just being a smart ass. Disregard comments from people like this….
Mathew, im sorry you have to deal with morons like this as well. May your travels be better next time.
Maybe just say ok and shut up, don’t offer business cards and say terrorist
Calling this traumatizing is hilarious
Amen, using the word terrorist Should always get a person thrown off a plane
Matthew, Last sentence…Read it again.
Any photography while on UA aircraft is strictly prohibited. It’s pretty clear.
Understandably you were used to taking photos and blogging (and had not seen UA’s policy on photographs or thought to ask permission) so it came as a shock to you to be asked to stop.
I think you got testy with the FA, but when you argued with the Captain you were good as gone. In the future respect the rules and inflight personnel.
If you wrote a letter to management regarding this situation believe me the flight crew did too, and that report is in your file. 1K status has its privileges and if you fly with us responsibly your privileges won’t be taken away.
Good thing I had several passengers come forward on my behalf to back me up.
CHARLES, YOURE A MORON!!! The story is not about the no picture policy at all!!! The story is about a FA asking him to do something which he did and still got asked to leave the plane. He was treated rude and called a liar when he did what he was asked to do. People like you are the reason reading comment sections suck. Your comment has nothing to do with why the story was told!!
I was trying tone polite and think of something rightfully clever and on point but man, you’re just an asshole. I am a FA, and she (FA) was out of line. There are no “blanket” restrictions on photos. Travel bloggers are videoing their boarding, their meals, drinks, seats, bedding, toilet, galley and no one says anything in my 28 years of flying. THIs on FA was the bitch.
Wrong!!!…I’ve be a Delta pilot for 31 years and still today…I have never heard of the “no photography” rule you are talking about and have never been trained to deal with that scenario..However as a captain , I do have the right to remove someone but only and I repeat only after I have convened a team of a delta supervisor , a security coordinator and possibly a few others, then the call is made and in most cases it’s not the captain’s call. We do that so there is no chance of being part of discrimination accusations, racial or other types of profiling…So in my opinion the passenger should have remained until they got to bottom of it..I don’t care about leaving late because we at Delta are not pressured to leave on time.gate agents maybe, but not captains..United is different from Delta so please don’t lump us in with them..Thanks
Wow, over 1000+ comments! I hope UAL has taken notice!
Recently, a leaked internal memo stated they are competing with North Korean Airlines to be the “meanest mother f^%#*ers” in the skies”…even tougher than the ‘ol TRUMP Shuttle. Looks like they now reign #1, with the beatings, passenger ejection power trips, and all.
Seriously though, as someone who flies almost every major airline worldwide, the problem is one of corporate culture – Too many US crews often see themselves as authoritarian prison guards – Courteous sometimes if you behave and comply, but step out of line a little and WHACK! Off you go to the gulag… There’s too often no attempt to diffuse potential powder-keg passengers with a courteous approach first, before escalating to gestapo-mode (which of course, is sometimes necessary).
Whereas most non-US airlines are sooooo polite that the level of courtesy in economy service is often better than United First Class. They whisper softly with a big smile and tilted head – “Please sir, kindly stop trying to storm the cockpit and retake your seat.” They make you feel so valued, you feel as if you can throw THEM off the plane if needed.
I’m not the CEO of UAL, but I have been a CEO (and advise many now). If I were advising them, I would suggest that since UAL is a quasi-economy carrier masquerading as a major, I’m confident they could gain a huge competitive edge domestically by recruiting and training crews in “VIP-quality” courtesy to match the non-US carriers, and blow away AA & Delta who also suffer from the same cultural issues.
Well, Matthew, you screwed up big time when you used the word “terrorist”. Just like you don’t say “bomb” going through security. So you have learned an uncomfortable lesson, but you should have already known that you have to watch your words carefully.
You are a little rodent brain. And a fool to boot!!! What a stupid response!!
Saying “I am not a terrorist” is out of context and similar to saying “I don’t carry a bomb.” I understand, in such situation it’s easy to say something wrong by mistake. It’s bad luck. Lucky that they helped you resolve it. The additional costs for the ticket are a good lesson. Sorry you should know that ….
I fly extensively practically everyweek on international. Cabin and cockpit crews of US carriers now have a bigger chip on their shoulders and more and more racist.. Worst Delta. The demeaning treatment is common on US carriers because they have the worst servixe with the oldest pathetic cabin crews and have no better way of talking to the normal customers. They think they are the best when it fact they are the worst, hiding between management and unions.
Imagine if you were coloured or black.. You would probably have been called a terrorist and been dragged off the aircraft. US carriers like people’s money..but not ‘The people’ . Often one feels like one is at their mercy (Hitler’s camp??) Treatment and consideration of flight crews differ from frequent flyers and one time flyer. They are afraid to be filmed because they talk to different people differently and are afraid it could be used as proof against them… And worse the airlines back up the crews no matter how racist or rude they are. Flying United or other US airlines is getting worse, exxept Southwest which still preserves the joy of flying and are less pretentious and treat any passenger with respect… Rather consistently and humanly++.
That is why it is better to fly Emirates, Etihad or other foreign carriers.
Ditto the Delta comment. Their flight crews absolutely have a chip on their shoulder, reinforced by all the “we are the best” nonsense out of Atlanta.
Matthew, we’re so impressed with background, but the minute you state ” I am not a terrorist” you won the Darwin award of the day. You idiot, what di you expect would happen.
I am an airline Captain. Reading your post, I can assure you I would have kicked your arrogant obstructive ass off my plane as well. What kind of a moron argues with a flight attendant and uses the word terrorist? Do you yell fire in a movie theater? Hopefully you have matured in the last 5 years, otherwise I suspect your life has been very hard in the interim. Cheers!
With that attitude, you should not be trusted in the flight deck.
But, thankfully, it has been a peaceful five years.
Just came across your blog today for the first time and have to say that you really come across as a self absorbed, entitled little blogger that are a dime a dozen in today’s social media circus. Get over yourself.
Welcome aboard!
Im so sorry you have to deal with complete asses like this. If you cant say terrorist on a dzmn plane while having a coversation then the terrorist really have won… just goes to prove that no matter how educated you are you can still be ignorant!!! People like this is the exact readon i wish that show purge was a reality. Lol
Good onya, Captain Cuck.
These sound like United Airlines shill posters.
I wish I could say they were, but they are not.
+1 Sandee. Matt was 100% wrong using the word “terrorist.” There was no need for it in any context in the situation. If I’m crew, and someone pulls a rookie move like that I need to assume he’s, at a minimum, capable of using other inappropriate words or offer confrontation I don’t need to deal with once we’re in the air. Put the camera away and shut up. Would have saved you the reroute and $225. You have no one to blame but yourself. Say the word bomb in any context at an airport next time you’re accruing some of you’re 200k yearly miles and see what happens. That taboo has been around for at least 40 years so you can’t blame 9/11 or hyper sensitive political correctness. Get off your horse and accept the fact fact that you were thought a lesson an elite flyer should never had to have been taught.
And I’m the furthest from a liberal pc crybaby. I’m not even flight crew or work on an airline. Human nature is human nature and you’re a fool for challenging authority in that situation. If everything you said is true, you don’t even deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Matthew, it sounds like you haven’t grown up one bit and you’re still an arrogant little snot who feels entitled to special treatment because for some warped reason you see yourself as a celebrity…which you’re NOT!!!
Special treatment? In this case, following their own regulations would have been more than enough.
Capt. Bob Manderson is absolutely right in his assessment. After reading your initial story, and as a former airline captain flying passenger jets both domestically and internationally, I would have done the same thing to you. Kicked your arrogant ass off my aircraft without hesitation. You seem to demand entitlement, are utterly arrogant, and have very low emotional intelligence. Get something in your little head; the FA is on board primarily for your safety and to save your sorry ass in the unlikely case of an emergency; not to carry your stupid jacket. Go make a living doing something real rather than blogging around with your phone like a spoilt brat teenager.
I’m sorry that I’m wasting my time trying to even respond to your stupid and trivial travel incident.
Kiss my ass mister captain fool!! Hope I AM NEVER ON YOUR FLIGHT!!! CAN’T BELIEVE YOU ARE A PILOT WITH YOUR LITTLE MIND!!!
I hope I never find myself on one of your flights. You sound like a help desk agent reading from a troubleshooting manual. He said terrorist…..throw him off the plane. He dared to try to explain his actions……lie about him is ok.
cant believe its america,worse thsn communist countries.laying guilts on words that was used.
And I’m sure if he was a pilot he would thrown your ass off as well. Your childish. You shouldn’t be a pilot.
Sorry don’t know if I’m replying to the person below me but whatever. Anyway I cracked up when you said you were doing the walk of shame. Ouch! Lol but you were very humbled in saying so. Yeah the FA is such a bitch. You should’ve creeped up on the galley and said boo! before you left.
EWR to IST. Any chance there were several LEOs who did not want their pictures taken? One of the reasons airlines do not permit photography
in the cabins.Wake up!
You once again confirm you are a habitual condescending whiner. You wallow in attention and attract
the negative to provide material. Pretty petty, enjoy your reroutes. Stay on UA we don’t need you on other airlines.
I can’t believe it. That is ridiculous! Do you know if the person taking multiple photos, got kicked off the flight?
United know they are Sh1t and they dont evidence of this being published thats why they stop people from taking photos
Why would you argue with an FA….especially pre flight? Right or wrong doesn’t matter at that time-getting off the ground does.
Flaunting a biz card makes it worse. Say ok, take off, have dinner then chat when life is less chaotic for FA.
Although this is an old post …. I would like to interject and remind you that Matthew did not argue with the essay but instead tried to give an explanation for why he had taken the one picture that he took!
I am an ex flight attendant and I have seen many wrongs done to people by flight attendants who are on a power trip!
A good example which comes close to this escapade happened while I was flying with Spirit Airlines and they had one plane which was their anniversary plane and it was Decked Out in every color of the rainbow.
We had an elderly lady who when she saw the plane made a comment about it being easily shot down!
The flight attendant that this was told to tried to ban the woman from our flight. I however was flying senior flight attendant and went to bat for this elderly lady who had no idea that what she had said would be taken so seriously by my crew member!
I went to the captain and I explained the situation and I also explained that this lady was very elderly and had no idea that what she had said; which to her was probably just chit-chat would get her thrown off the flight!
My captain sided with me and the elderly lady flew on my flight without really knowing how close she came to missing her flight!
Hi Patricia,
We just flew United two weeks ago to Jamaica. We fly a few times a year and have never, ever encountered a problem like we did on our trip home. The couple that we were with entered the plane and the over head compartments were full. Our friend put his bag in the aisle, as this is what we’re were asked to do on a previous United flight. The FA came to him and asked that he move his carry on and he replied “I would do that but I am not sure where to put it”. She said she had no time for his rudeness. (He was NOT rude at all). A few minutes later a lady came back and said the captain had requested his removal from the flight. We left with them, as they were our ride home and to be honest, we were afraid to leave them at this point. They ended up having to buy new tickets and spend an additional night. I know that since we left voluntarily we are not able to recoup any of our expenses for the inconvenience…. is there anything they can do to recover their expenses? Just wanted to get another FA’s opinion.
Maybe she did not want to be reviewed…
If true indeed outrageous.
While I agree that this shouldn’t have happened and it is unfortunate that the FA outright lied, I tend to agree with Jon. Some times it is best to let sleeping dogs lay and this was one of those moments. As much as you feel that you were in the right, and the FA was in the wrong, we all know what type of flying world we are now.
I also believe that had this happened to someone else and you had not known about what was causing your delay, we would have probably be reading a post about your flight being delayed, etc. You really do need to look at it from all angles. Both the captain and the FA were trying to get the flight off the ground – not argue with a passenger.
And lastly, your sense of entitlement, because it really comes across in your posting (sorry – I know this sounds harsh) really does not help your case.
Let’s pretend for a minute that Matthew is a customer, shall we. The notion that flight attendance have any purpose or authority other than to serve the customers and make their flight as pleasant as possible is, at best, contestable extension. Clearly, you are much more likely to get kicked off a flight due to over booking than experience an emergency that would require the FA to exert any “professional” orientation. Its not about arguing with a passenger and its not about a FA pretending you were a real threat. Its about an individual acting in a purposeful vindictive manner because you had the audacity to clarify what you were doing and why. And if she had a bad day, then that is on her not Matthew. Its about time to focus on the real issue behind the mindset and dissatisfaction that now pervades virtually everyone that works for an airline other than the senior executives and that is decades of reduced real wages that have succeeded in reducing the workforce to individuals who can’t pursue other careers. They are attracting the lower quartile of pilots, FA and ticket agents based on the compensation they are offering and the overall working conditions. And while people might except that on discount airlines based on fares, there is no reason for a United to function like this other than for greed on the part of top executive and their wealthy investors. It is truly unfortunate that virtually any service or product becomes a commodity at some point under capitalism. And when that happens its more about squeezing out the most profit possible and less about a sincere focus or passion for the customer.
To JRook:
Very well stated. Actually your assessment of this particular incident could be applied to almost every industry these days. i.e…. technology, healthcare, hospitality, insurance, etc. The list is endless. To reiterate part of your response here…
“It is truly unfortunate that virtually any service or product becomes a commodity at some point under capitalism. And when that happens its more about squeezing out the most profit possible and less about a sincere focus or passion for the customer.”
I just could not have stated it any better.
You should talk to some media outlets about this, or get more bloggers to support you
That is crazy stupid of UA. You should publicize their names if you got them. Both FA and Captain, wow..
I guess we’ll learn to NOT argue pre-flight anywhere
I don’t know how much you can do to get revenge, but let’s start badmouthing UA from now on 🙂
Isn’t United’s slogan something along the lines of “United, The Go F yourself skies”
I’m a traveller and travel regularly, sometimes on comp tickets, otherwise on revenue tickets as a member of the travel industry.
The word terrorist in any interaction as part of air travel requires a responsibility to report at any stage of the journey, and rightly reported.
Consider the passengers around you, are they comfortable to hear that word during any stage of their journey; and on the other side would you have been if you’d have heard it without context.
Irrespective of your status or role..you are one passenger on a 250-300 seat flight..and your language however flippant is the reason your were offloaded.
It’s a valuable lesson for you to learn, and perhaps in future corroboration with crew as you board before taking pics might stop this from happening again
I disagree. He came across very graciously and unentitled.
The whole situation was silly, but US-based carriers are paranoid like that many times. Using that word was not very smart. Do you really think the non-FT public will side with you after any statement comes from UA quoting what you said to the FA? Not sure sure about that. You can’t fight the fear propaganda…
You wanted to express that you weren’t doing anything wrong after the FA made her point, she didn’t like that and she had a way to get rid of you, that’s the unfortunate moral of the story.
Before you get annoyed about what I said… I’m not blaming you for taking the photos and the FA was being ridiculous with the original request. However once that request was made you should have known what kind of paranoia you’re dealing with and let it go. But it’s so ridiculous that you probably couldn’t have imagined it.
jeff.smisek@united.com. This is a case where you take that option and use it. He’ll get back to you within the hour.
Look, the FA set you up, just like a conniving witch, and she got her power rush at causing damage. The captain, he doesn’t have the interest or time to get to the bottom of the issue, and that isn’t his job. Still, the behavior of the captain and FA, i.e. not looking you in the eye, scampering back to the galley, should be enough for you to get a clue on the sad nature of people these days. All they have to do is scream ‘I feel uncomfortable, I feel threatened.’ They don’t ‘feel’ anything, but robotically act out as children do from their own inadequacies, but also with intent. That the captain would quickly introduce the police option is also quite the norm these days. True, it’s their aircraft and you’re only a guest, but this story only retells how quickly you can get into a pickle these days. Other comments made here about letting sleeping dogs lie is precisely part and parcel of how we quickly arrived at the situation today. There a few ‘men’ to stand up for what’s right, they’d rather be man-boys, take it like sheep and work on their computer games. I’m sure some of the commentators here would say ‘Gee, Matt, be glad if you don’t have a record after this.’ A minor thing today is seemingly a national security situation. The powers that be behind the curtains are laughing at how they’ve managed to screw up society. Wanna fly? Then shut up. There’s your slogan. At least in Asia and Europe it isn’t this paranoid, yet. United should change their name to ‘Interflug’. Also, watch the movie ‘What’s Up Doc’ with Barbra Streisand for some comic relief, and education on wiley destructive characters.
This is outrageous. The entire “no photography on planes” has always struck me as particularly ridiculous, so it is annoying to hear that it is now being rigorously enforced, at least by one crew. My suspicion, however, is that we are only hearing one side of the story on this incident. The crew may have a very different recollection of the events on this flight.
I am not condoning what happened, but this is an example of a life’s lesson where you have to pick and choose your battles. It is like arguing (or feeling you have to get in the last word) when dealing with a police officer during a traffic stop. You may be 100% in the right, but there is a time and a place for discussion, and the side of the road (or pre-departure on an aircraft) is not the place to prove who is “right”.
Additionally, I don’t feel the Captain was in the wrong – he is going to support his crew (absent clear evidence the crew member is wrong.)
Learn how to swallow your pride and keep your mouth shut. If you are not happy with how you are treated, or how this is ultimately resolved, then take your business elsewhere.
I’ve read about these stories happening numerous times to the common passenger and each time I cannot believe it happens and continues to happen. You are probably the most high-profile person that it has happened to and I hope it turns into a situation where you are able to change policy/procedures to make sure it doesn’t happen again to the common-folk. Even when a passenger/traveler is RIGHT, they are powerless when it comes to a he-said/she-said argument with an Airline or TSA official.
Honestly…the behavior of the FA should merit legal pursuit and recovery of damages. If this kind of stuff stands unchallenged…what’s next? Passengers having to take off their clothes if the FA deems it necessary for security?
Very true. Give up one right and now they want the rest. Its desgusting! We might be kicking terrorist ass on the battlefield but they are kicking our asses psycologically. We are getting our rights taken away in the name of safety. Pretty soon it will be a shorter trip to walk to your destination than it will to leave early, go thru security, take half your clothes off, and be looked down upon like im a terrorist. Give them an inch and they take a mile. Its sad!
Wow, unbelievable. I usually book internal flights in the US on United (anything transcontinental I use a European airline, preferably Virgin), but I think I’ll start using Virgin America and Delta as a result of this story.
I, too was on this flight in 18F. I saw the flight attendant come up to the guy in 17C and (very rudely) demand that he not take pictures. She said that it was “against FAA laws.” The guy in 17C simply shook his head, said, “really?” (in disbelief). He then put his camera away and said nothing more. We then heard commotion and it became apparent that a pax in BF was being kicked off (you, as it turns out).
The flight crew from what I witnessed was EXTREMELY unprofessional and blew this situation out of control. There were quite a few very frequent fliers and bloggers onboard this flight, too.
I really hope United gets screwed in the media for this. You handled it like a champ.
I was sternly reprimanded after taking this photo on Delta: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t48-1LwiuZM/T2ELNXkLP4I/AAAAAAAAAIM/_GgIkR7DTnA/s600/internet-switch-must-be-on.jpg
I told the FA I took it “because the sticker was funny.” She was not amused. I’m a writer as well, but am now scared to take photos on flights. Absurd.
I’m so sorry this happened to you, Matthew. It’s a shame the FA singled you out over the other passenger taking pictures, especially as you complied and tried to explain yourself. And I disagree with Jon… I would have also attempted to present my business card(s) showing my “credentials” for wanting the picture(s) in the first place. I wouldn’t, however, have used the “T” word.
I take pictures on every flight and I’m equally careful not to capture passengers or crew members, simply focusing on the seat (as you did) and meals. I hadn’t seen that detailed onboard photo/video policy from the Hemispheres magazine until now.
Once the FA made up her mind that you were a “threat,” there was really nothing that could be done, unfortunately, as wrong as she was.
I look forward to your follow-up posts with United’s input and resolution.
about 5 years ago I was on a QF 747 flight from LAX-SYD. What was fascinating about it was about 2 hours out of SYD – there was an optical phenomenon which displayed as a circular rainbow. Not an image in the glass as it could be seen easily from multiple windows at different angles.
I was sitting in the Upperdeck adjacent to the Emergency Exit. The view from my seat was spectacular.
A week later I flew with a local colleague from SYD – BNE and back. The Aussie FEDERAL police paid my colleague a visit at home. When it was explained that I am a bit of a plane geek – they laughed and said that it had been reported that I was a “terrorist type” and that I was taking pictures of the exit.
I have since flown to and from Oz many times and no issue further has been reported.
Yes people are jumpy. Yes US ancient FAs have been known to behave erratically. Was their justification? No
But perhaps they breed this at UA. On a flight in 2003 from SJC-OGG i watched a UA FA insist that an 11 year old boy was a threat and had him and his father and brother literally frogmarched off the flight in plastic cuffs while we all had to witness the walk of shame. The FA was positively gloating over the event.
Perhaps it was the same FA.
I would not let it rest.
Cheers
Hi,
Since 9/11 using the word ‘security’ by FA or just about anyone with some position in the airport, means they become almighty and can do whatever they like.
I’ve learned to keep my cool, which is very hard in situations like these, and yes, 1K and similar statuses automatically make you believe you will get at least a bit more respect and appreciation…
This is the very sad truth about US carriers which I avoid like the pest.
I had a story where a male FA started threatening me using the ‘security’ pretext for placing my luggage some place, after I specifically asked another FA and got an approval.
It was ME who went to the captain after the flight, and it was the FA that almost wet his pants.
I sincerely feel for you, and hope you get over it soon.
One thing that leaps out here to me is that you didn’t actually violate their stated policy. You took a picture of a personal event — sitting down in a new seat. There are no other passengers or crew in the picture.
After reading other commentators regarding their own ‘treatment’ it boggles the mind that the public has it in their power to stop this ill behavior by simply not flying. Two weeks of not flying would put a screeching halt to their assanine attitudes. But to date the airlines have operated at will, seeing their ‘customers’ as a captive audience.
Sadly, with billions traveling it seems you could put a plane’s destination as ‘Hell’ and people would push each other out of the way to buy a ticket. That’s one of the reasons for the behavior problem.
Don’t fly, no revenue, bankruptcy, out of business. No more power trips for these cretins.
Being a United FA myself.. I want to apologize to you for your not so good experience onboard one of our planes… However, we as safety-first professionals, have a post 9/11 code of safety ethics to which we abide.. Your thoughtless decision to use the word “terrorist” was the pivotal point that changed the direction of this scenario.. Backdate to September 11th 2001.. One of the 3 downed planes which eerily departed Newark was UNITED flight 92… Since that faithful day, Airlines have adopted a “better safe than sorry” policy that legally enforces a passenger’s immediate removal from any flight regardless of your FF status be it global alliance, 10k, 1k, or premier Plus etc.. Furthermore.. Who’s to know if flight attendant XYZ lost a friend, sibling, parent, spouse, family member, or whomever on flight 92? Also the ONE thing to agitate us flight attendants, is to argue with us [for whatever reason] during pre-departure process, which can be VERY stressfully hectic, as the pressure to quickly prep the cabin AND close the boarding door is solely placed upon us. This haste severely intensifies on delayed flights since passengers tend to add to the delay and to our stress by asking inquiring with us about connecting flights, without saying hello hi or how are you? Moral of the story is, in life, you make decisions that have consequences. Sometimes they overlook the sensitivity of others, causing you to be left behind..
Non-thinking robot. This all the more shows why I’m not surprised this happened at one of the world’s worst airlines.
Comment author hardly sounds like a robot. I kind of understand them.
Even though it’s still paranoid imagine that a FA lost someone on 9/11.
So your job is stressful and you will take it out on passengers ? If you can’t handle it and be a professional, quit !! What a stupid set of comments
We always need to hear the other side of the story. Sometimes the lamb is not as tame as it claim to be.
If you read up higher, a previous commenter said they were on the same plane and saw the whole thing. They said the crew “was EXTREMELY unprofessional and blew this situation out of control. “
Wow, that’s crazy. It’ll be interesting to see how United responds.
@ NyRon: Sorry this is nonsense.
Being so robotized to the point where a friendly passenger is telling you that he is NOT a terrorist…
Oh, no! your system has detected a banned word, press [call captain button] and throw this threat of the aircraft.
don’t be stupid, use your brains.
So, you think it would be OK, as you’re putting your bag in the bin, to tell everyone around you – “This bag is NOT a bomb.” When the FA comes over you’ll say, “I’m NOT a terrorist” and they’ll just go and leave you alone?
While you’re at it you might as well tell them you DON’T have a gun in your bag and AREN’T planning to hijack the plane. It will all be fine as long as you’re friendly when you say it.
I give you back your same advice; don’t be stupid, use your brains.
And then there’s the story of the guy who got kicked off the plane when the FA refused to help him with his Canon…but I digress…
Ironically I’m sitting with a Delta pilot at the moment and just relayed your story. He said that while it seems rediculous and he probably would have reacted differently, the moment you use the word terrorist the FAs lose it. There are certain words that FAs are now trained to listen for and report. It’s up to the pilot to access and decide. Clearly your flights pilot was a jerk.
I flew UA from Rome to DC on Feb 2 this year. I was in first and I took lots of pictures. One FA did come over and ask me to make sure no crew were in the pics and no pics of the cockpit were taken. I showed him what I took and he had no issue with it.
I suspect you ran into an uptight FA who took things out of context or had a shitty day and took it out on you.
That sucks! Sorry to hear it happened.
I was also on that flight in row 18 along with Sean and Andrew. I also witnessed someone in the row in front of me get seriously reprimanded for taking a picture. So sorry that happened to you. I was not impressed with that crew at all from start to finish.
🙁
What the heck UA?!?!
This should not be surprising given that it’s United.
Matt I was the passenger you referenced behind the curtain. I am just getting back from Istanbul now. There were a bunch of others that witnessed what transpired (all 1ks). Feel free to contact me offline, I was planning on sending an email outlining what happened as well. For your readers info, the FA that was jarring at me was citing an FAA regulation (that does not exist) prohibiting photography.
Insane. Completely insane. Sounds like things spiraled pretty quickly – but it never should have even started. Since when does a FA get antsy over an innocent picture??
Do we really think a terrorist would be dumb enough these days to say, “I’m a terrorist”, or, “I’m not a terrorist”? Seems like if someone was plotting something they wouldn’t want to draw more attention to themselves.
Ridiculous situation.
Happens when we fly with a bunch of insensitive, non-thing, LYING robots on one of the world’s worst airlines.
No matter how hectic it ay be pre flight it is still a FA’s job to treat passengers with respect.
At no point in this story did Matt argue with her or raise his voice about her decision to stop him from taking photos. He seemed reasonable and collected in his decision to clear the air with the FA so there was not any misunderstanding of the situation.
I don’t think the use of the word “terrorist” is a good enough reason to kick somebody off a plane but unfortunately I feel like that might be United’s story. Is terrorist like when nobody in Harry Potter was able to say Voldemort? Does it make terrorists more powerful when we say that word?
If this side of the story is the full story, and I have no reason to believe Matt would lie, then I think the FA went too far in their reaction.
Best of luck getting some type of apology for the walk of shame and having to rework your entire trip just for a bad apple.
“I don’t think the use of the word “terrorist” is a good enough reason to kick somebody off a plane”
Doesn’t matter if you’re friendly when you say it, calm, smiling, sitting, standing, wearing a suit or wearing shorts and flip-flops. Using the word terrorist (bomb, hijack, etc) has you 95% off the airplane. Any other factor; such as an odd interaction with an FA or passenger, breaking a rule or anything that draws attention to you will be the remaining 5%.
Matt, I’m appalled to hear about your story. I definitely hope this is investigated thoroughly by UA. Keep us updated.
I would never fly UA if I were you…..but wait I guess you need that 1K and mileage crap so that you can get a first class seat and then be kicked out like a dog…
Matthew – I am a long time and multiple millions of miles flyer across a variety of US airlines. I have found your blog to be insightful, clinically accurate and exceptionally unbiased in its posts.
And to those, especially the FA’s responding – hiding once again behind the useful at your convenience 9/11 experience – it’s time for you to grow up and either be a “professional” or not – you can’t play the “safety professional” and completely incompetent “service professional” at the same time. And if you can’t Delta just had 44000 applicants for 400 positions.
Tired of these antics – I forwarded your blog to Jeff Smisek – as attached –
Mr Smisek –
I have gone through all of the status symbols at your airline – 1K, GS, Million Miler – and it pains me to read about this behaviour by your Flight Attendants and Pilots – I hope they enjoy all of their “power” inside that metal tube because if they worked for me in a service business – they would have been fired on the spot.
Shame on them – and shame on you for allowing such behaviour. And if you allow it to continue – why not eliminate all your 1K reservation reps, all of the GS agents – they are nothing but window dressing at this point.
See the following: http://upgrd.com/matthew/thrown-off-a-united-airlines-flight-for-taking-pictures.html
Respectfully
Scott
I have to agree with NyRon, there are definitely a few key phrases not to use in an airport or on an airplane because they COULD draw the ire of some jazzed up security personnel (or in this case FA). I think you know/understand that.
I understand you explaining you’re a blogger, that’s cool, and something I might’ve done if I didn’t want to just let things be and say nothing, but why you ever said you’re not a terrorist is beyond me, who would ever say something like that!? Especially on an airplane!?
That said, it sucks that happened to you.
I have a theory consistent with everything that was said, and agrees with Zach’s point.
Have United’s flight attendants been told that if someone merely the uses the word “terrorist,” “bomb,” or any similar word that they must immediately report it to the pilot? Did she fear that had she not, a fellow attendant or passenger might have heard you use that word (in a benign context) and report it and then she’d lose her job?
Likewise, has the pilot been given direct orders that any time the word is used and reported he must bar a passenger? Pilots don’t like such orders, I know, and they are typically the sole determinant of who flies on a plane. But they have less and less leverage in contracts and employment, and perhaps this is a new directive.
It would explain the discomfort of the FA and the captain: they are embarrassed by the policy, but a combination of other crew, airline employees who might be flying (and listening), and, for all we know, airline surveillance of crew made them enforce it.
It would offer a consistent explanation!
This story is incredible. It does sound like the FA didn’t like you trying to explain.
Do let us know what UA does to respond.
Amazed at the number of readers who feel everyone should bow down meekly to authority. Sit up straight, hands in our laps? Sad and pathetic.
Sad that no one can use common sense anymore. Guess who avoids like the plague using the word “terrorist” — terrorists! If FAs overreact to hearing that word, they need to switch to another line of work.
Reminds me of the question on the back of the immigration form for countries that don’t need a visa: “Have you ever been or are you now involved in espionage or sabotage; or in terrorist activities?” Yep, I’m sure all the terrorists mark “YES” on that one.
I was on that flight in 18A/B with a good friend of mine and saw the flight attendant storm up to the guy in 17C for taking a photo as well. Definitely lots of chatter by folks and FT/MPers in my area. That crew was pretty horrid. Sorry to hear about what happened. :/
Saying, “I’m not a terrorist” isn’t really a good thing to do in or around an airplane, and I don’t think it’s an issue with United.
if you disagree, when you’re going through security before your next flight, try saying “I’m not a terrorist” to the friendly TSA agent and see what happens.
My Mother was also the victim of FAs lying about a situation. In her case, they claimed that they administered oxygen to her inflight. This is patently false and no such thing happened! Because of this, she refuses to fly Air Canada. There is zero recourse for victims of FAs lying since it is usually considered an internal matter.
Put it the other way around. Given what happened and your interaction with the captain, would you trust your life flying in his aircraft? I wouldn’t.
damn. now i have to come up with new catch phrases, if I can’t shout “I”M THE BOMB!” and “SERIOUS LIKE A TERRORIST ATTACK!” to my bros when I get on UA.
Matt Get a life man !!
You breached the airline no photos policy.
A flight attendant called you on that (doing her job) – you put your camera away.
Flashes were going off near your seat from others while the flight attendants were busy with pre-flight work.
THEN you wanted to express your point of view to try and justify why you needed to take a photograph. (maybe a little unsatisfied with the airline policy?) You used the word “terrorist” to make your point – dumb dumb dumb.
The moral of this story is – Never argue with a flight attendant in particular during busy pre-flight time. Never use the word “terrorist” or “bomb” or “explosive” on an aircraft or at an airport.
The flight attendant and pilot did the right thing by everyone on the aircraft and got rid of the problem – (“you”)
Suck it up princess in future when in business class just kick back, smile be happy and enjoy the flight.
cheers Chris
Chris —
Your response overlooks one important issue. There were two ways the FA could have handled this.
The right way — “Mr. Pilot. The passenger in seat such and such used the word terrorist. I do not feel comfortable with him on the plane.”
The wrong way — “Mr. Pilot. I told the passenger in seat such and such keeps taking pictures after I told him to stop. He needs to be booted off the plane.”
The moral of the story is never fly United.
Sorry to hear about what happend to you – I think you met someone who was simply had a bad day and decided to take their crap out on you – there is no execuse for what you had to go through and you should for sure contact cnn. I am a Million Milier on Delta – I have taken lots of photos from the Upper Deck but of stupid stuff like my glass of wine with the skys in the background (on KLM in Business Class on the Upper Deck) or recently from Nice to Paris taking photos of the Alps – not once was I told to stop. However, after hearing this story – I am now never going to do it – the reason is simple – if you photograph a piece of the aircraft – it is possible to reverse engineer the part and replace it – and I am not going to complete the last part but if any of you are Engineers involved in the 3D world of Manufacturing – you know exactly what I am talking about – this is what the airlines want to avoid in addition to figuring out the electrical schematics – enough said. The airlines know exactly the reasons why photographs should not be taken of the interior. Regarding the FA – you intimidated her with your blogger status – she percieved that as a threat – and voila – she leveraged your use of the “T” word to get you thrown out. I was also bullied at one time in Business Class by a Delta FA – I wrote a long letter to the Executive Managment of DELTA (my girl friend came up from Economy to give something to me) oh boy – it was not good. Anyways – Delta bent over backwards to fix the situation. My suggestion is to take this up to the Exec level and CNN and see what happens. But what is strange is that I see so many other blogs on Frequent Fliers and they are all taking photos in Business Class of themselves and their experience. So – I really think you met the wrong FA and the wrong flight crew. Fight and escalate this. Good Luck!
The Hemispheres ONBOARD PHOTO OR VIDEO section strikes me as utterly unclear. What on earth (or in the sky) is a “personal event”?
Wow. This is ridiculous that you were treated this way. This is classic United customer service and why I left for AA Exec Plat. I know customer service can vary wildly from interaction to interaction and that poor service can come with any airline, but when you fly 200k miles a year, you start to notice consistent trends in poor service – and United has VERY poor service. I’d rather fly Southwest, sit in coach each week, and get domestic-only points than fly with United. I disagree that with those who say that Matthew should have waited until later in the flight to say something…who knows what she would have done! She might have diverted the flight and made up some even more outrageous claim to get him thrown off the plane! It’s time you stood up to poor service at United and take your spending to another airline.
@NyRon
Oh, eek. For God’s sake. So if I say “Wow, that show was the bomb!” I’m right off the plane?
Good Lord.
This is absolutely unacceptable. That flight attendant should be fired immediately as truly, a liar is much more of a security threat than taking a couple pics. Definitely take this story to the media so United learns their lesson on dealing with situations like this….
You know how many people should be kicked off planes. I guess when I want a free seat next to me I will be reporting him/her to FA to have them removed for taking pictures. Thank YOU united for telling me how to have someone kicked off a plane. LOL
I usually take things to the extreme especially when in the right. If that was me I would state every person on this plane must have their phones and cameras checked for pictures as IF i get removed so does the next 15 people. I would request for the pilot to produce me the exact FAA law number so when he could not produce it I could just laugh and go so I am still on your plane the law is to provide me water so I would like my glass now.
The pilot and FA are prob. laughing right now cause that’s how they think I hope they get screwed at some other business when its there turn.
had a very similar situation on a PS flight out of LAX one time several years ago.
I certainly got United’s Personal Service on that flight.
The airline industry has changed and if you interfere with a flight attenant duties you can be thrown off. Period. The airlines don’t want a problem in the air. The airlines have to take every situation seriously because the one time that they don’t something could happen. There is a reason for the airlines rules. It is to protect the public and I would like to be safe as a single mother of two girls. I suggest passengers get on the flight, behave and have respect for other passengers as well as the flight crew. We do not get paid to board the fligt and we are there for safety. If she thought for any reason that the picture taking was wrong then she is right. I know it may not seem fair for a passenger that may not know the rules but it seems like you are a frequent flyer.
@Darren When I saw that photo, I thought of the following:
Did you ever see the British TV show “The IT Crowd”?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1320786/
“Jen has to give a speech when she is named employee of the month so Moss and Roy give her the Internet in a box to use as a visual aid.”
Hilarity ensues as a result of her subsequent actions.
The Value Traveler is digusted by your story and will support your cause in bringing attention to this heinous act committed by a low life United flight attendant. I take pictures of my seat ALL the time..and have never been asked to not take pictures. I take pictures of my food all the time and never been asked to stop…….this flight attendant obviously should be fired….really!!
Pursue this and dont rest until you have compensation! We deserve better, as we are the backbone of these carriers revenue!
Just cant understand the behavior of the FA on United Airlines . Recently in Jan 2017. i was on a Qatar airways flight from LAX to DOH and i was upgraded to Business classes with my wife, we got excited and asked the FA to take pics of us which she gladly accepted. United rules are extreme!!
Do u have a twitter handle with updates on stories???
In my opinion, your title “Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Taking Pictures!”–with an explanation point–is deceptive and misleading. You weren’t thrown off for taking pictures. You were thrown off for saying the word terrorist. But starting your story with that exclaim is effective in framing your position.
It’s illegal to scream Fire in a crowded room if there isn’t really a fire. It’s illegal for good reason.
It isn’t illegal to say the word Terrorist on an airplane, but maybe it should be. For good reason.
I think the title “Thrown Off a United Airlines Flight for Saying Terrorist!” would be a more honest and less manipulative title for your story.
Why would saying the word terrorist be a good thing to have banned?! Do you really think actually terrorists go around using that word? The title should Thrown off United flight because an FA was on a power trip or an idiot.
I have not flown Frontier Airlines since a very similar situation occurred with me on one of their flights. The FA outright lied. Absolute authority can be grossly misused when in incompetent hands.
Chris: “Matt Get a life man !! You breached the airline no photos policy. A flight attendant called you on that (doing her job) – you put your camera away….”
@Chris: If it was against airline policy to take a photo of the seat, then every passenger who flew aboard the first 787 flight should have been kicked off that flight.
This was an absurd situation, and the FA completely over-reacted. Over the past ten years, I have taken thousands of photos on UA flights, and have never run into such a crazy FA. While I might get an odd look from a passenger, I could care less about them.
Though I might not have said anything about not being a terrorist, this entire situation could have been avoided if the FA had not hidden in the galley, and the Captain had actually listened to Matthew.
@Matthew: I hope you are contacted by UA, and they straighten this out. If you don’t hear anything, I’ve got some contacts that I can put you in touch with.
A flight full of points and miles afficianados sounds like hell. You should be glad you got thrown off!
Heather (comment #6) hit the nail on the head.
Egregious behavior by the United crew. Can only hope this goes viral.
As a former Continental, current UA, International Service Manager (Purser in UA lingo), I can only apologize for the treatment you received, and hope that you give us opportunities in the future to restore your loyalty to our company. As I was not on this flight, and did not witness the entire interaction, I cannot even speculate about the behavior of the F/A and Captain in question. I can only tell you that I do expect better from my co-workers, and hope that this is the one and only time that you have such an extreme, and disappointing experience on a UA flight. This merger is difficult for all of us on the front lines, and it is very disheartening to read stories such as yours.
This is a conspiracy theory. Maybe the FA is the pilot’s close friend (bias) or mistress so he does whatever the FA told him to do and you were being screwed.
Because an ACTUAL terrorist would blatantly take pictures and use the word “terrorist” in every other sentence.
I feel for ya. Sorry. 🙁
A sad tale. It does seem that there’s no question that the FA was in the wrong, assuming the story is accurate. This whole “do not use the word terrorist” defense is ridiculous. Maybe we are reaching a time when childishly overusing the word is the only way to bring it back to usefulness.
Matt, your getting booted had nothing to do with the photos. You used the word “terrorist” while arguing with an FA during pre-flight. Even pre-9/11, you would have gotten booted for that.
I know it sucks, but you’re still alive and you eventually made it to your destination… as did everybody else. In fact, there were 300 people on that plane, and only one of them was inconvenienced. You. 299 of them probably flew more comfortably knowing the guy who argued “I’m not a terrorist” during pre-flight wasn’t in there with them.
Sorry. No love for UA here, but I’m not sure it’s as one-sided as you think it is.
Cheers.
If the author was a terrorist threat worthy to be removed of the airplane, why did they rebook him on another place without first strip-searching him and taking his belongings apart? That’s some awesome security United is providing us with.
With regard to NyRon’s (himself/herself a United FA) response in the comments above, which are,
“.. Your thoughtless decision to use the word “terrorist” was the pivotal point that changed the direction of this scenario..”
Can you not use the word terrorist during flight? Or any other of the thousands of words in the English language that have been used in context of 9/11 or the wars and events that ensued thereafter? Is there published list of such words that passengers should be made aware of so we don’t get booted for accidentally using an off-limit-while-flying word? I find it incredible that after the author has explained everything in detail, another United FA would essentially defend/condone the actions taken by the horrible FA that the author had to deal with. This suggests to me that this is training (or lack thereof) or policy that is decided on at a higher level in United; I wonder how many United FAs would agree with the author’s removal. I understand the sensitivities after 9/11, but the author did not use that word in a manner that would suggest a threat to the FA.
I respect/admire you for taking a stand even though it led to more trouble for you.
Are you sure it was a legacy United crew?
That’s crazy. While having left the issue alone after the initial encounter might have been the better course of action, as in nothing further would have happened. That doesn’t mean the FA acted appropriately, she totally blew this out of proportion. And the Captain saying that they were already late was unprofessional, irrelevant of why the decision was made it makes it sound like getting the flight out is more important than customer service, because the minute it would take to pretend to listen to you would have made a difference. I’m assuming he wouldn’t have changed his mind.
While I wouldn’t recommend arguing with the Captain, at the point where you’re kicked off the flight and been threatened it you don’t have much to lose. They’re not going to actually have you arrested for taking a minute to state your case. Even more reason the Captain should have been more professional when he spoke to you.
A simple, “I’m sorry if there was a misunderstanding but if my FA isn’t comfortable with you on this flight then I’m going to have to back her up.” Then he doesn’t sound like a jerk, you at least think he listened, even if he didn’t. The FA thinks she was backed up by the Capt and the same outcome happens with less drama.
Good Luck with United. If they give a BS response I would move to another airline. While I don’t feel like a 1K makes you extra special, it does warrant that the airline really look into this. If in 10 years you never had an issue then there was at the least, a misunderstanding and that should be acknowledged.
Hey NyRon, it wasn’t UNITED 92. It was United Flight 93. If you’re gonna quote 9/11… Get it right.
Yes the OP had a sense of entitlement in his post. He was also wrong to even bring terrorism into the discussion. He went THERE… and got what he was looking for… a fight. one he lost…. Yes the FA was wrong for freaking out. We freak out a lot these days. We put up with more and more BS from the company as much as the snotty “elite” people we are trapped in an airplane with.
-A FA with slightly more attention to detail
If taking pictures is not permitted, this should have been explicitly advised to all passengers at the gate, before boarding.
Putting such terms and conditions in an in-flight magazine are only legal cover ups. It does not say anything about customer service and being proactive to avoid any issues on board.
So, I do hope you get your apology, because, let’s face it, if you do not, there are plenty of other airlines out there who will be happy to take your dollars.
You win, UA will lose.
Well, after reading this I will NEVER fly with UA again. They WERE my backup Airline, but never again. That crew needs to get several doses of common sense training. Wise up UA.
I am a Flight Attendant myself, and as a Flight Attendant I can NEVER assume that customers know what I know!!! Not all customers are aware of the company established policies and procedures! There are millions of customers who fly on UNITED that does not speak English, for example, some of the customers on that flight to Istanbul does not speak English, and would’t know how to read photography guidelines. The ONLY reason that I think you felt to explain yourself is because Flight Attendant must have approached you in very harsh and judgmental manner, and ordered you to stop taking photos. Usually, in this type of situation, I would approach a customer, I would ask how they are doing, if they are comfortable, ask them if they would want to drink something, and then I would get into their level, establish eye contact and would speak very softly advising customer of the policies in none ordering manner! I would allow customer to give their side of the reasoning. I think FA used very poor judgement!!! In normal situations, it is customary to engage customer in conversation by other crew members to evaluate the situation, before making a decision to remove someone from the airplane. I’m sorry what you have experienced and I hope the incident will be evaluated. Please share on the outcome of this complaint.
This is … beyond words.
I’ve had issues with exCO United staff before out of IAH over photography – to the point where I now avoid IAH for the fears of intolerant crew like this.
It’s another joy of travel chipped away.
We’re becoming a nation of frightened sheep and I’m glad Matthew has chosen not to be one.
This story really makes me angry. It’s unbelievable how you were treated. I completely understand how stressful and hectic things must be pre-flight for the FA, but it’s their job to be professional and provide good customer service. There is no getting around the fact that the FA acted inappropriately. There is no way she could have objectively believed you were any kind of threat.
I really hope that you are contacted by UA and that the FA is disciplined. I’m sure this type of situation occurs frequently (and that this particular FA has caused other pax inconvenience or unpleasant flight experiences). While I’m sorry you had to go through this, I am glad that you are in a position to bring attention to the incident. Keep us posted!
Unbelievable, this makes my blood boil. Do not let it rest. You and any other passenger deserves to be treated better than this. Sometimes these old FA think they are God and control everything. Her name should be published for all to see along with the name of the Captain. I have taken many photographs and a few times asked not too. But it always makes me angry because I see hundreds of photographs of people WITH the Captain IN THE COCKPIT and they want me to put my camera away because I took a picture of the seat! or the food! or the seat in front of me.
Hmmmm He writes pretty for sure and is a professional “spinner”. Where is the truth? Somewhere in the middle I presume? Now he IGNITES the flames of Passengers VS Crew under the guise of a loyal United Blogger. Bad form sir.
I don’t have a blog but I fly 20 – 60K a year mostly on Delta and AA. I take pictures of every meal, seat on my flights etc and have never had anyone, either crew or passenger, take exception to my doing so. I really find it incredulous that one would be removed from an airplane for doing so. This story doesn’t do much to improve my already low regard for United Airlines customer service, policies and procedures. I realize they did make effort to get you to your final destination after they removed you from the plane. Imagine how you would have been treated absent status on United.
@NyRon What utter, utter rubbish.
You are actually saying that use of a word without any threatening context or indicators is, in and of itself, the proximate and necessary cause for all that? That FA’s are actually incapable of doing anything other than reacting in one way? Not only are you saying that FA’s are incapable of thinking beyond the level of a trained dog (& not a bright one either) but that they should be rewarded for doing so. Don’t you dare invoke all the cultural memories of events from over a decade ago! It’s disingenuos and demeans those events. There was no threat. No reasonable person would ever perceive there to be a threat. The crew, FA & captain, if they acted as reported, were simply unthinking morons. Any reasonable employer would fire such people as incapable of performing their jobs.
There’s a reason that so many people avoid American carriers these days (& it’s not just because of the crappy hard & soft products, delivered badly) and you’re exemplifying it entirely.
CRAZY!!! Sorry to hear that this happened to you. One of my favorite things to read from bloggers are their trip reports!
Really? It should be illegal to say “terrorist” on a plane? Because terrorists tend to say, “Listen, before we take off, I’d like you all to know that I am NOT a terrorist. Here’s my business card clearly stating I am NOT a terrorist!”
At no time did anyone tell him he was being kicked off for stating he was not a terrorist. They said it was because he wouldn’t stop taking pictures. His title is, therefore, perfectly apt.
Sorry to hear about everything that happened.
This incident flustered me so much that I felt obligated to help pass on the story to United.
Definitely go to the media with this
United shouldn’t have wrong you:
1) You are a very loyal flyer
2) You are a travel writer so you can publicize the bad experience on your blog
3) You have a law degree
RE: ipjg “We do not get paid to board the fligt (sic) and we are there for safety.” That sentence manifests the enormity of the problem we have with people. No doubt this matrix clone truly believes what she wrote. She couldn’t be a better poster child for the Age of Fear. We’re doomed. Oops, is ‘doomed’ on the no-speak list. Welcome to Brave New World, 1984 all rolled into one. We’ve arrived, courtesy of one dumb and brainwashed population. The Age of Englightenment and Reason never stood a chance.
@Matt are you considering making contact with the mainstream media about your story? It appears that many of your readers and fellow bloggers would be happy to blast every media outlet we know with your story.
It is disappointing to hear of the few FAs who are disenchanted with little accountability for the inexcusable actions. Is it incredibly difficult for an FA to be terminated by the airlines?
Considering what others bloggers have received from UA don’t be surprised if you receive nothing more than silence.
I am not a UA loyalist, I must say. I spent about ten years amassing about 1.2M miles, and very little of that was on UA flights because the attitude of the crew was often unpleasant. So, I guess I’m not especially surprised by your experience. Sounds like you handled it very well. I hope the airline deigns to contact you about this and makes some attempt to make it up to a loyalist. Good luck.
Hey, sorry about the issue you had and I feel sorry for all the people who say just be quiet and take it. I just watched the Time Machine last night and these type of people are what come to mind when they show the Eloy just mindlessly following each other. It is more common than ever that people just follow any “rule” and don’t use what little mind they might have. There was a kid here who was expelled from school for throwing a make believe “grenade” while playing. I wonder if this FA was his teacher….sad, very sad. I would just take my business elsewhere after receiving compensation from United whether it’s an apology or monetary.
I had the same situation on a United flight several years ago — kicked off based on a FA lying to the pilot. I had no recourse and it was simply a matter of him backing her up without question. I guess it’s an unwritten code that the pilot back the FA no matter what.
Part of me wishes you had waited for the police to come, but it’s great that you complied. Good show. I’ve now resolved that if I’m ever wrongfully thrown off a plane for any similarly stupid reason that i will loudly apologize for the crew’s apparent ineptitude and that despite being so dense, they probably are otherwise kind people. I sincerely hope there’s a good explanation on the other side of this story because this is just lame. Social media, go to work!
Am so sorry thus happened to u
Well, shame on UA. But, quite frankly, you acted like a knucklehead. Yes, you are only 26, but as an experienced traveler you really should know better.
Don’t say terrorists, Al Qaida or bomb on an airplane.
Don’t flaunt your useless business card. Just a case of DYKWIA.
Be a better judge of character. The FA sounds like a majorly frustrated bitch. But she is a bitch with power over you.
Having said that UA was wrong. I would speak to CS, and if you can, Jeff. I am not defending UA at all, but you are not helping your case. The policy is ridiculous and shows where we are as a nation. A bunch of pansies.
Nobody’s decision here was right or wrong. The way this was handled by UA’s crew(according to your story), however, was not professional. Unless you are posing an immediate threat, they still need to treat you with respect.
WOW. Thanks for posting about this and warning me about United. I would have never known about the no-pic policy and I would have probably been kicked off also.
A finely-written piece. You were clearly wronged and I hope UA has the good sense to compensate you for their egregious judgement.
“So I was on this flight and the whore of an FA wouldn’t let me or others take pictures for my trip report. I’m going to see if I can get her fired.” Meh. Would have been a boring blog post. Well played.
United was out of line. It’s just to bad you’ve invested so much in them to be let down.
I don’t fly United much due to my location but I’ve never been impressed with the FAs on UA. Maybe just me, I’m sure there are good ones but most I’ve met don’t seem to like their job or act like tenured union supermarket clerks.
Get your million miles and get a status match from someone else I say.
She lied.
But you said the T word. Very dumb.
Beyond belief. I hope United takes customer service issues like this seriously. On the face of it, it doesn’t seem to be an issue of not following f/a instructions…which is a documented no-no. We all know that “United Breaks Guitars”. So perhaps, on reflection, the world’s largest airline (at this moment in time) might attempt a common-sense approach to a real problem. I’m looking forward to United’s response.
This exact thing happened to me last week on flt from Tokyo to Newark. Im a 1k million miler and had never flown the configuration. I settled in and snapped a pic and texted it to a friend who flies the same route on occasion. Immediately the FA that was at the door greeting came over and said in my ear that I wasn’t allowed to take pictures of the flight crew. I said I just took a picture of this new seat she said no more pictures and stormed off. I didn’t get kicked off. Btw if I did I would never fly them again. FAs put up with lots of crap but the attitudes and threats of police needs to stop. Spend sometime on some of the Asian carriers and see how nice and genuinely thankful the employees are for your business and try and see what has gone wrong with crabby people manning the business “first” cabin. A quick check of your seat number would tell the fa everything about you and your ticket. It’s ridiculous for you to have been de-planed.
NyRon made great points. I had a feeling the word “terrorist” would set off all sorts of bells and whistles inside the FA’s head. I just read MommyPoint’s having the issue with her baby girls’ booster seat, in her case she gave up when she knew it was going nowhere and had to deal with her kid flying with no booster seat.
This post was scary on my end because I do tend to take pics of the seats, windows, meals and IFE. I hope I don’t get kicked off a plane one day. I don’t plan to stop.
Sorry to hear about our experience….now some (turning into many I’m afraid) FAs are using security as a means to an end….they either hate the new responsibilities/increased work they have and feel powerless….thus using security gives them power…or they are idiots who don’t have brains and can’t use common sense.
Now I’d like to say I’ve also had some very wonderful FAs recently who are clearly very smart and service oriented. And to them I say Thank you! Unfortunately, it sounds like you got the stupid, self absorbed, power obsessed, angry type.
To United: you owe Matthew at minimum an apology and hopefully some form of compensation in miles, free flight, upgrades….something…and id suggest you’d find a way separating the stars from the angry bitter workers you have in the sky’s so much more often these days.
Good luck Matthew….I’ve always enjoyed you blog….
Crazy. I have tweeted, uh, everyone about this. The best part, with all it’s faults, Delta is so much better than United. Plus, I have a post on the way to show Delta is 10x better than United and this is just one reason why. But thanks so much for this post! – Rene
This is truly unbelievable – I’ll be writing into United for sure to have them change this policy. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
This really seems to optimize the sad state of security theater and American air travel. Sorry to hear this happened to you.
Unlike a bunch of other people on here I don’t think it was the word “terrorist” that caused the trouble.
Rather, it was you defending yourself rather than meekly submitting to her authority that set her off.
I also think you’re being too generous here–their deliberate misdeed cost you that second ticket, I think they owe you it’s value.
Having been a flight attendant going on 38 years, I can say I would have been mortified over this injustice. I’ve flown with fas like this. They have all the rules and regs in their minds, but no idea how to treat people with dignity. I guarantee you there was more than one co-worker who was also embarrassed by her running up and down the aisles being the picture police.
I fly internationally and I often get people to open their window shades when we are flying over something beautiful and, by all means, take pictures.
Guess I better stop doing that – nah!
Amazing what happened to you. A very sad state of affairs. Only on a US airline. Hope you get some compensation from UA. How can you ever fly with this outfit again? You need to go more public given your status with UA.
And some of the mindless, almost drone-like replies here (ie: NYRon and Heather#6), just makes one wonder what has become of this country. The terrorists won a long time ago and the rest of the world just laughs at stuff like this. Can you imagine this happening on ELAL?
I’m sorry this happened to you! What I’ve learnt from your story (and others) is that to only answer the question asked and provide no extra information. Even though sometimes it’s frustrated, it saves headaches later on.
@WalnutArtisan I’m sure many of us greatly appreciate the sort of angle that you would take. Do please keep it up and I honestly hope to one day run into you in my flights!
Is it just me, or does NYRon strike anyone as an FA impostor? Things really got murky for me when he called out the wrong UA Flight on 9/11, then started referencing products “global alliance, 10k, 1k, or premier Plus etc..”
It’s called Global Service, and Premier Access and unless I just fell off the turnip truck anyone who works for UA, including the custodian knows what Global Service is. I’m hardly what you would call a UA frequent flier, but I know the product names.
Just strikes me as a little odd that this person may not be who they say they are.
Let me add to the minority chorus: You did nothing wrong from a legal or airline rule standpoint, but you chose to (a) bother the FA with an unnecessary explanation during pre-flight in (b) a most entitled fashion and (c) employing the word “terrorist”. Calling the FA a liar rather than using less inflammatory language also wasn’t the smartest move, although I’m sure by then it was already too late.
I think the no photos rule is absurd, just as I think most of security theater is absurd, but your handling of the conflict situation, while sincere, was more than a bit juvenile.
As someone else said: Learn to pick both your battles and the manner and timing thereof. If it hadn’t been so important to you that the FA know that you are 1K and a travel blogger, everything would’ve been fine.
Dishonesty seems to be the norm. I had a United flight the day after Christmas from Nashville to Houston that was officially cancelled due to weather despite being calm in Both cities and the earlier, delayed flight taking off at our scheduled time.
The next day, the ground staff told us a flight crew did not show up and wrote an offical form stating this. My initial claim for compensation was denied until I followed up with the form showing they lied to the passengers and the FAA reports. At least they tried to “make it right” six weeks later with a small voucher after keeping people overnight and denying hotel stays.
The “no picture” policy is there for safety concerns at which I am not at liberty to really get into & all or most airlines have the same policy. As a United employee, & a flt attendant, I am sorry this happened to you. I will not disparage my fellow coworkers as I was not a witness to this incident but I would like to say that mergers are stressfull & very confusing not just for the customers but also for the employees. We are currently merging 2 huge operations with completely different procedures & cultures. Things are changing rapidly within the company. While this policy is not new, to those of us who are employed in this industry, the changes we re encountering DAILY in our jobs are new & in some cases life altering. I make no excuses for her & how she treated you. I just ask for your understanding that she may have known of this policy but not understood it or how to inform you in a more appropriate manner.
@Carol – given the countless instances of photographs being taken on-board (with crew, of meals, seats, etc) on United-operated flights that continue to this day, it is hard to see where this “no-picture” policy is being strictly enforced and why. You seem very convinced that all airlines have this policy in effect (with countless stories, posts, etc that would indicate otherwise) – could you please point out where these policies are located? And perhaps you could explain why this policy wasn’t enforced on-board the inaugural 787 flight of United Airlines?
I’m a tad worried about moving to North America if this is the kind of customer service I can expect from FA’s in NA after living in Asia for 4 years and experiencing the best. Please update us when you hear from United.
I think the words: “safety-first professionals” should be considered a taboo, just like the word “terrorist”.
@Carol – are we talking about the same airline which is inviting passengers to share their “United experience” with photos on instagram? http://instagram.com/united
Well…you got a new reader out of the deal! Happy to be introduced to your blog today for the first time!
Need to book a domestic flight tomorrow. Guess it won’t be on United.
Hello,
This sad incident reminds me of a 2010 Bollywood movie called “My name is Khan”. (and I am not a terrorist). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Name_Is_Khan. Worth watching…
As a non-westerner who travels a great deal, you get used to discrimination by a small minority of people in power. It’s not limited to a particular airline or country or culture (though USA is more sensitive). Post 9-11, there’s no point in arguing or explaining. Just observe and complain later.
Imagine the same incident with a non-white passenger. If I even mention the wrong words like terrorist or bomb, regardless of the context, i’ll end up on a no-fly list or worse.
Best to keep quiet…
Thanks for the tip!! I will not be flying United as it’s obvious that the flight crew has been infiltrated by TSA morons!! Flight attendant had lied or why would she hide? IF she was in the right she would have stood her ground!! And why wasn’t he allowed to show anyone his phone photo section to prove he had stopped? Bunch of clowns on this particular flight.Hope you publish Captains name so we can avoid any of his flights(just in case we have no other options but to fly this airline in the future)
I am a Ex-Con, United Flight attendant. Over the years, I have seen plenty of flight attendants with control issues. But its still rare to remove passengers. Personally I have only done it once. There may be more to this story. Airlines need legal grounds for removal, a Fed Air Reg violation. By far the most common violation,
FAR 121.575- “A certificate holder may not allow any customer to board if that customer appears to be intoxicated.”
2nd most common, FAR 121.580 – No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crew member in the performance of the crew member’s duties.
Usually one leads to another
Thanks all for your comments. I am traveling in Yerevan, but I will take some time to respond in greater detail later today.
@Sherry: I had no alcohol and what I said to the FA I wrote above. I can only surmise she deemed me talking to her as “intimidating” though I cannot see why–my tone was conversational and not at all threatening. But the reason I was thrown off the flight–according the captain and GS agent–was not that I threatened or intimidated a FA or used the word “terrorist”, it was that I continued to take pictures after the FA told me to stop. And that simply wasn’t the case.
Please don’t imply that I must have been drinking/tipsy, because I had only had water all day. In fact, I have a picture of my PDB–seltzer water with lime.
Reading your version of events, United is mostly to blame. you share some of the blame though. She told you to stop taking pictures, and right or wrong, you should have just stopped and let the matter go. Instead, you call her back over to argue with her and try to give her your business card, which kind of sounds like a DYKWIA moment/threat. “I’m a blogger, I write about United on the internet, and I’m annoyed with you.” You should have just let it go.
Did they offload your bag and further delay the flight over this, or did you not have a checked bag and do you think they knew that? Maybe checked bags make you less likely to get thrown off planes. I don’t know.
Just a few weeks ago, I popped up in to the cockpit of my 777 for our transpac flight and chatted briefly with the pilots. They saw my iPhone in my hand and asked if I wanted to take a picture. All three of them quickly posed for the shot and I snapped it. It was a great shot….OF THE FLIGHT DECK nonetheless! 🙂
I dislike this whole “we have to be the eyes of security for the skies” attitude. While I agree that employees need to watch for suspicious behavior, the fact that FAs will be buried in a People magazine as passengers hover in the first class galley makes me believe that this policy of them being responsible for aviation security sure comes at their discretion.
For future reference in order to guard against a he said she said situation may I suggest that you go to the Spy Shop on 14032 Beach Boulevard in Westminster and look into getting either a small audio tape recorder or a small audio/video recorder to have handy to document things should an untoward incident happen in the future.
Last May I had Jury Duty in Santa Ana (I didn’t get on a case) and afterwards I took a couple pictures of the courthouse from the public sidewalk. Before I knew it I was intercepted by two Orange County Sheriff Deputies and was told that I couldn’t take pictures of the courthouse and I had to delete the pictures and they saw to it that I did so. They took my ID and did some sort of background check and no doubt a report was made. Then I was allowed to depart. That incident was on a Wednesday late afternoon. First thing Friday morning a call came from someone in the Orange Police Department representing Homeland Security and I was questioned about the incident. I asked if I broke any laws and the officer couldn’t cite any laws I broke. I felt I did not handle the incident well but I was in a bad spot and I was not fully aware of my rights. I did not think to get the officer’s badge number else there would have possibly been a lawsuit. But with a recorder and documentation of future incidents I would have some recourse.
Wow – just wow. A bit entitled with the business card shtick but that’s no excuse for the crew’s behavior. A couple of points made by other posters should be restated. 1) The section in Hemispheres cited by the FA is in English, what if you were Turkish and were not able to speak/read English? Is it in Turkish too? Is the no photo policy in the Contract of Carriage? I didn’t see it in a quick search; 2) UA’s Instagram page. Whoa Nelly. If the no pictures policy is enforced as described above, this UA marketing adventure is in for a world of pain; 3) Terrorist = bad, Bomb = bad [don’t talk about UA’s website]. What else = bad? Can I watch Airplane on my iPad? I’ve watched The Hurt Locker and The Kingdom on flights through the airline’s own IFE, does that make me a threat if my volume is too loud and the FA hears these bad words?; 4) Is it a crime if the pilot “has to” call the police because you didn’t disembark? (or didn’t disembark fast enough?); and 5) What’s with the so-called security issues with the photos? Here is a simple Google search for “United Airlines cockpit” https://www.google.com/search?q=united+airlines+cockpit. What else could someone find out from another picture?
A common sense from ALL parties involved could’ve prevented this fiasco.
The terrorists win again. 🙁
I feel so sorry for what had happened. I work for United & I’m speaking for myself as an outsider with no reference to my company. I love my job and i was a retired police officer with years of criminal investigation experience. Though we should not judge but demeanor of someone is also a factor of suspicion.
I always take pictures for passengers like couple, family onboard that will leave them a great memory of traveling as well as our airlines.
In your situation, perhaps someone got paranoid. If I was there, I would have handled in a different way. But as a crew member and a small potato, we can only do so much.
I did work with thousands of crew, many have the basic requirement for the job with no other life experience or other professional experience.
As to someone lie, I believe most people lie when they know that they may have to be responsible for a matter. I’ve met passenger lie to accuse me. Thanks to other passengers who back me up. Otherwise, I could have lost my job as well.
I guess if there’s a better communication skill on that situation, matter shouldn’t be that bad. However, this’s a good scenery to share though I felt sorry for the delay of your trips.
This is my judgment based solely on your story:
First, I think the photo rule is stupid.
Second, The FA was wrong to incorrectly enforce the ‘photo policy’ if you indeed only took one photo of the seatback in front of you and no more pictures.
Third, sorry but you were at least partially wrong:
By demanding the FA to return, hang up your coat, and oh by the way boasting of your travel blog job and that you ‘knew’ people in Chicago, the implication to her was probably “Ok, this guy thinks he’s gonna do whatever he wants because he’s such a big shot and that the safety rules don’t apply to him, and he thinks I shouldn’t try to assert my authority on him even on issues of safety.”
She may have been incorrect in her assertion that you took multiple photos, but she may not have been purposely lying, but rather really believed you weren’t compliant and took more than one picture. I guess only a polygraph would help…
Lastly, I do think the use of the word ‘terrorist’ was just enough ‘ammo’ for her to easily get you booted.
Is that absurd?
From your point of view (which is rational) of course. You aren’t a terrorist, and taking iphone photos openly is clearly not terrorist behavior (or shouldn’t be thought of as terrorist behavior in my opinion).
I don’t think using that word was bad. It was how you used it.
Again, the implication again was “ignore your training, and don’t worry if I follow rules. I’m not a terrorist because I just told you and oh by the way I’m a travel writer bigshot blogger who knows UA executives”
The photo “rule” in my opinion is stupid.
However, your implied (express?) challenge to her authority on safety issues at the beginning of a long flight followed up with that language makes it a nobrainer for the pilot.
The pilot has hundreds of people on the flight who just want to get somewhere safely.
He was probably not at all worried that you were a terrorist. He was at least 50% worried that you did disobey the FA with the photos, and then 100% worried that the dynamic between you and the FA was really bad, and that this had a significant chance of deteriorating inflight and that safety could then be a real issue.
I think the pilot has zero blame here. He does have to back up the flight attendants, and he knows them. If they say you were taking photos and not following safety instructions, what is he supposed to do. He doesn’t know you. He does not have time to be a referee. He has others to think about. He really didn’t even have to talk to you, and you shouldn’t interpret his bad eye contact as rudeness. He is a pilot, not a public speaker. (Now if this is a recurring theme with the FA or pilot, then maybe something needs to be done about the FA or pilot later. But on the plane, I think he has to side with the FA in this type of thing.
So overall, you are justified in your complaint about the stupid photo rule and the bad choices/”lying” by the FA in ‘enforcing’ the rule, but you do share some blame for getting booted by at least implicitly challenging the FA in issues of safety, and lastly I think the pilot was probably right.
A) You definitely come off entitled. I reckon you don’t mean to, but you do. 1K status, Global Services, whatever- when a crew member is dealing with a situation like that, they aren’t going to give a rip about someone’s status, and in fact flaunting it or trying to drag it out as some kind of “proof” of… something, I dunno, isn’t going to do any good.
I mean, what’s the implication? “I’m a 1K, so you should be more reluctant to throw me off the plane because of possible security issues than you should be to throw a guy in the last row of economy off”? That’s ludicrous, pure and simple.
B) the FA screwed up. Pure and simple. I wouldn’t say it’s a big “she lied” kind of situation; she just said something to someone about you making her uncomfortable and then it got out of control really quick.
Something to remember- there are a ton of crew that are still very, very, very traumatized by 9/11. Whether anyone thinks it’s reasonable or not, it’s a fact. Those crew members often were friends with the crew killed on those flights.
Here’s a dirty little secret from the airline industry: There’s a significant percentage of crew who will not fly on 9/11. They will bid lines that miss that day, and if they can’t dodge it by trading out of trips or dropping them, they’ll call in sick. I know, because my ex-wife used to do that along with several of her FA friends.
Again, it’s one of those things that whether we think it’s reasonable or not, it’s a fact of life. Those folks are continually on guard and once there’s a possible issue, boom, forget it- off the plane you go.
C) you screwed up. You didn’t need to go and reassure her. You just needed to quit taking pictures. That’s it. Nobody’s going to be impressed that you’re a blogger. Nobody really cares. But running your mouth got you booted, pure and simple.
D) There’s tons of blame. Who cares? It’s not a federal case, and it’s not some big outrage. Going to “the media” or trying to stir up a bunch of hatred isn’t going to do anything. Most people hearing this story are going to assume that either you had it coming, or maybe you didn’t but they aren’t going to care.
The best thing to do at this point is STFU, work it out with UAL, and hope that they don’t flag you onto the no-fly list.
It is just not simple to remove a passenger.
Half the passengers are still talking on the phone after take off, and nobody ever pays any attention to the fasten seat belt sign.
You don’t see flight attendants getting passengers removed for those things, even though both are actual FAR violations.
The photo thing is just a policy. A policy, by the way I never see enforced.
But, the authority to remove a customer belongs solely to the Captain,
Far 91.3 ” the pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft”
In 23 years, I have never seen a pilot make that decision hastily,
or based on the opinion of a single flight attendant.
@Sherry: Well, the captain had no desire to hear what I had to say and my interaction was only with the one FA (other than a greeting from the purser when she handed me the menu). He just wanted to get the plane out. As I stated in my post, I don’t begrudge the captain’s call after the FA lied to him–I only begrudge the rude manner in which he addressed me.
@PapaLima: With respect, I think you are way off. I mentioned my 1K status here–and not to the crew–to show that I am not just a one-off traveler who had a bad time. Rather, I have spent a great deal of my LIFE the last decade with United. Over 700K miles on United alone.
And you really think I tried to “impress” the FA by giving her my business card? I wanted to explain why I had taken a picture of my seat–that is all. BTW, she most certainly did lie when she said I continued to take pictures.
And your last line–a threat–is not appreciated. The insinuation that I should be put on UA’s “no-fly list” because of this incident represents the jejune paranoia that so sadly characterizes the mindset of far too many in this country.
I don’t see how everyone is missing the fact that this gentlemen and all passengers are CUSTOMERS of the the airlines. In any other industry if you received such a level of “customer service” most people would never patronize the company again. I know we are limited in our choices, but it seems a statement should be made, and the only way to do so is with the dollars you spend. I’d suggest spending them elsewhere.
i once had an argument with a FT over the last row, they were insistant that they needed it for rest. However, the gate agent had already assigned me in that empty row so just for spite the purser came over and insisted that two seats be reserved for the crew. After that, the FT made a complaint to mgn and the row magically became revenue, and the FT never again had that row empty as mgn ensured that pass were always sat there. FT thing they have lots of power and security is a REAL CONCERN, however powerhungy FT sometimes do themselves no favors.
As a former station manager with 19 daily flights (small, but not tiny,) for an undisclosed airline, and at another time in a job associated with United, it was interesting to read Matt’s story. The flight attendant asked him to stop photographing which he did after just one shot.
Trouble began when he tried to explain himself as they were trying to dispatch the aircraft, and he mentioned the word, “terrorist.” Both drew attention to himself.
From everything I have read, the Flight Attendant lied that Matt ignored her directive and continued to take pictures, but not simply putting away your camera and keeping a lower profile until the flight was in the air (and taking photos when that flight attendant was around.)
As a mileage runner myself, and taking more than my share of photos on airlines around the world, its pathetic of the airline to complain about taking photos onboard in this iPhone age. Drawing attention to yourself and mentioning post-9/11 codewords just before departure was not bright though.
In all honesty, 1K’s, despite being good customers, can also be the most pushy. An airline needs to balance the needs of a passenger, with safety concerns, and the operational (on time) efficiencies of an airline. It is not always a balance that is handled well.
you committed the CARDiNAL sin, you said the T word……
Two words that might have a say….union…and….getting laid. If either would impact the situation…idk
It’s really sad that some people think just saying the word terrorist in a non threatening way should be grounds for being thrown off a plane. Comment #74 and #88 are spot on regarding this issue.
I almost expect this kind of illogical poor service from United, but I can’t imagine this could ever happen on Singapore Air, Cathay Pacific, Emirates, Asiana or a long list of other foreign carriers. This story re-emphases what most people who travel internationally have long ago realized: don’t fly a U.S. carrier when foreign airlines are available on the same route.
PapaLima states in comment #141 “there are a ton of crew that are still very, very, very traumatized by 9/11”. These crew members who are too traumatized to effectively preform their job to standards, should be moved to reservations or ground staff since having these “very, very, very traumatized people” on a flight and responsible for passenger safety seems like a much bigger risk than someone taking a picture of their seat.
Matthew, I would dump United and forget about their status levels. You should be able to get another airline to match your status, and besides with the right credit cards giving lounge access, free checked bags, priority security entry and the ability to earn enough miles that you can book your flights in business or coach, elite status isn’t really that useful anymore. I have the United Club Card which earns 50% bonus miles for every dollar spent, plus numerous other perks, so I’m able to rack up lots miles, and since the majority of my flights are international, I rarely have to use United at all. All of my United miles go to booking first and business class tickets on ANA, Asiana, Thai, Lufthansa and Swiss Air.
How interesting. Papalimas last line wasn’t a threat but saying lets just move on. But you perceived it as a threat. Yes, what paranoia state if mindset we all live in…
Take a step back and look this as a whole instead of just looking it at it from your point of view. Having said that, god luck with the outcome.
Don’t forget the success of United Breaks Guitars. With staff like that, perhaps one day you can write United Goes Broke.
“Do you know who I am? I’m a blogger!”
I would have booted you off the flight too. Not a terrorist, indeed.
Strongly suggest that all those with twitter and FB accounts link to this article.
Based on my experience with United, they definitely aren’t “the friendky skies of United”. After being a loyal customer for many years, I now find an alternate carrier for my flights.
I believe it was George Carlin who outlined on one of his records that there are “Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television.” There are also at least that many words you can’t say on an airplane, the “T” word being one of them.
That said, this was NOT handled correctly.
You could have shown them your iPhone as proof that you only took one photo. Also, a voice recording of all those conversations would be good to have for a lawsuit.
Personally, I think there is more to the story than what you are stating. There are two sides to every story. And the fact that your vocabulary and choice of ignorant words by repeating yourself and calling crew a liar, makes you seem more of a liar yourself.
Papalima Did not say you should be on no fly list LOL he simply stated he hopes they don’t flag you. Perhaps your misinformation is what got you kicked off?
I don’t know why you’re withholding their names. They don’t deserve it. I would publish the whole story with names and all.
I think the FA lying (let’s all admit, we’re taking your word for it though) is inexcusable.
I think you should have done what I’ve read other bloggers write: they informed the crew who they are and that they would like to take some pictures…may I please? Best to be proactive.
I get saying that you’re a blogger to explain why you took the picture. But just sit down and shut up and don’t push it. That’s your second mistake. Your first was using the word “terrorist” when you of all people know how rashly airlines react to that word, or a t-shirt, or a whatever.
Making this into a “the FA’s are going on a power trip” is a whole different (but related) topic. I’ve been questioned by law enforcement for not immediately following a ridiculous order…the point is, we frequent travelers know the game: follow all crew member dictates and shut up while doing is.
You should have said ‘sorry’ and sat down.
The FA should be fired, you should either make this all about trying to effect a change and not about how you were “wronged” or or defamed or besmearched or whatever, the pilot did his job by backing his crew.
I like the blog for the most part…and could also care less about your status! 🙂
I can’t believe the number of folks here trying to extol the virtues of this FA…there is no – zero – justification fo kicking someone off a flight for taking a picture of a seatback nor for using the word “terrorist” in the manner Matthew did. Also, the circumstantial evidence indicates clearly that she was an out of control person on a powertrip. On another blog, ther person in row 17 whom she also reprimanded rudel tells hus story in detail, and based on that account, there can be no doubt in my mind that Matthew is in the right here. To the other pax, the FA said that it was an FAA rule not t take pictures (a lie) and she screamed throug the E+ cabin to find the person wh took the pic. If hat doesn’t sound bat#hit crazy, then I don’t know what does. Link to other blog with account from eyewitnesses:
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/justanotherpointstraveler/2013/02/19/passenger-got-kicked-off-my-united-flight-for-taking-a-picture/
WHAO – the comments here are incredible – I suggest to all to try to fly on Singapore Airlines, Air Asiana … amongst the best airlines in the world – despite being a loyal Delta Million Miler – if I lived in Asia – I would be on SA most of the time – case in point – travelling in Economy from Newark to Singapore – long flight – but fortunately got an Exit Row seat – I still remember to THIS day how well I was treated – in ECONOMY – my point is – American and some European carriers (like Air France!) have no idea what customer CARE is about!! This kind of stuff can and should go Viral! I WILL NEVER FLY UNITED AIRLINES after seeing this kind of behaviour / treatment to an ELITE passenger. I don’t care about those above who say that you came accros with an ENTITLED attitude. BALONY! You were JUST trying to resolve a matter AFTER you saw that another passenger had ALREADY been told not to take photos but was not treated like DIRT the way you were. Either way – Most American based carriers do not know how to treat passengers – not all – there are some great people out there but it is NOT an easy job dealing with passengers – but ususally the Business Class passengers are more easy to take care off than the ones in ECONOMY. Enjoy and don’t take this treatment from UA!
WHAO – the comments here are incredible – I suggest to all to try to fly on Singapore Airlines, Air Asiana … amongst the best airlines in the world – despite being a loyal Delta Million Miler – if I lived in Asia – I would be on SA most of the time – case in point – travelling in Economy from Newark to Singapore – long flight – but fortunately got an Exit Row seat – I still remember to THIS day how well I was treated – in ECONOMY – my point is – American and some European carriers (like Air France!) have no idea what customer CARE is about!! This kind of stuff can and should go Viral! I WILL NEVER FLY UNITED AIRLINES after seeing this kind of behaviour / treatment to an ELITE passenger. I don’t care about those above who say that you came accros with an ENTITLED attitude. BALONY! You were JUST trying to resolve a matter AFTER you saw that another passenger had ALREADY been told not to take photos but was not treated like DIRT the way you were. Either way – Most American based carriers do not know how to treat passengers – not all – there are some great people out there but it is NOT an easy job dealing with passengers – but ususally the Business Class passengers are more easy to take care off than the ones in ECONOMY. Enjoy and don’t take this treatment from UA!
I would be interested to know the approximate age of the FA. You are young. In my experience, many older FA’s have a bias against younger male passengers travelling up front for reasons they probably don’t even understand. They often give lesser service to such passengers, and jump at any opportunity to shut off the alcohol or come down on such a passenger for minor infractions, such as standing near the galley, which are overlooked with older/female passengers.
Ha – this is the best post ever. Classic Matthew. I would have thrown you off the flight too. “But I’m not a terrorist, I’m a blogger!” Even worse. GET OFF MY PLANE.
Now go put your big boy pants on, Matthew, stop your insufferable sniveling, and get over it.
In a nutshell, you have Nyron, who should have been an english teacher rather than a flight attendant serving the public, and you have Walnutartisan, who understands how to handle a customer in a semi-delicate situation.
Having retired from the airline industry, you have employees who are predisposed to making issues and those who know how to calm situations. Think of it this way…. In one hand, we carry a squirt bottle full of water. In the other a squirt bottle full of gas. A professional always uses the water to douse potentially damaging situations. The self-important english teacher uses the bottle full of gas to squirt it on the situation and further inflame the fire.
Walnutartisan, I commend you. Nyron, please do the public a favor and become a parking meter enforcer as you have no business serving the public.
I find it really sad that there are people with the attitude of sit down shut up and take it in a situation like this. Do you have any self respect or do you just lay down and let life happen to you. This is the same situation as what is happening with TSA and happens in other situations where small people are given more power than they deserve or can handle. When you are not treated with respect by a an individual or corporation you should not sit down and shut up or it only gets worse. The fact that flight attendants and TSA agents have almost no accountability now is why things like this happen and it’s getting worse. What if this was some family who couldn’t afford to buy new tickets or missed their vacation?
Ok – so this crew is not comfortable with you on their flight (terrorist concerns?). . . but after pulling you off this plane the airline works to put the “terrorist” or problem flyer on another flight?? I assume they deemed you were not a flight risk (so it would follow that you should have stayed on the original flight) or If they were truly concerned about you then this is just plain alarming for passengers on the flights you were subsequently booked on. ! Just seems like muscle flexing to me – sad!
Matthew-Keep us updated with any UA further actions. I read your blog everyday and I appreciate the pictures you take of various airline products.
Cannot believe so many folks are siding off with United on this.
The fact that he mentioned he was a 1K only meant it was not his first time on a plane, and probably (I don’t know the author) all the previous times he has been to a plane, there were no problems whatsoever. To me being booted off a plane is only acceptable if a very serious offense or behavior occurs and I don’t think this applies in this case. Why did the FA did not request to see the pictures he took, and if that was the case, to delete it?
My wife and I sometimes take pictures at the airplane, the pictures we take are not much different than the one shown by the blogger. I do not consider myself a threat and do not think I am entitled to be thrown off the planes I fly because of it.
Once at JFK, I took a picture of my daughter and I was immediately approached by one of the security officers — “let me see that photo and then delete it immediately.”
Only then I realized that behind her was a portion of a security checkpoint.
I responded with “sorry, to clarify, I was taking a picture of my daughter and not the security checkpoint. Here’s the picture.” I showed her the picture and she said “delete that right now.” I said “OK” She responded with “it’s a security policy but has nothing to do with security.” I did not fully understand that comment but nevertheless I deleted it and she said “you better not restore that photo.” I wasn’t kicked off the airport, deprived of flying or embarrassed in front of fellow passengers…
To #141 PapaLima: If 9/11 is the reason behind it, then maybe the FAs should kick off all arab looking passengers off the planes not to make them “uncomfortable” then…
You screwed up. You didn’t need to go and reassure her. You just needed to quit taking pictures and be quiet. You said the magic word which got booted off the plane.
Another victory for the Ministry of Fear and Permanent War.
Be afraid, always, because 9-11.
[the careers of hundreds of thousands now depend on keeping the Fear alive]
Smisek got a big fat bonus for destroying Continental Airlines. Mission Accomplished!
(I’m a CO million miler, now totally avoid this POS corporate playtoy)
PLEASE consider updating this post and NAMING both the flight attendant and the pilot. I’ve never thought that individuals who do such immoral, disrespectful, and even libelous things should be able to hide anonymously behind titles or a corporate shield. United will claim up and down all day long that this was not representative behavior of their staff and ask your and the public’s forgiveness. But someone should be held to account for incidents like this. We should not trust these matters to be handled “internally” b/c they usually aren’t. I would name those suckers all day long. Let them explain themselves and offer you a apology IF one of these apologists’ excuses for their behavior is indeed on point. I’ve seen way too many instances of FAs letting their egos get the best of them and downright abusing this whole “national security” line. No power should be unchecked, and no decision unappealable. It would not have taken long to quickly investigate (look at your phone to see of there were other photos besides the one, check the website on your biz card with a smartphone to validate your profession as a travel writer, have the captain or Global Services rep quickly speak with the other passengers around you to verify or refute the FA’s claims, etc.). And when it was quickly and obviously discovered that the FA was lying and now embarrassed, this lying further to cover it up, SHE should have been kicked off the flight. I agree with an earlier commenter that someone with that type of behavior and character and a willingness to lie repeatedly on duty to save her own butt is much more of a serious threat to everyone’s safety and security. And I’ve never bought the apologist lines about FAs being busy and overworked and having a bad day… We all work and most of us work hard at what we do. Business class fliers are rarely spoiled little rich kids; they’re usually here b/c they bust their tails to be successful in their own jobs, which includes sucking it up when the job gets tough and putting on a game face. You are, after all, the one actually BEING PAID to be there, while the customer is the one paying. If you are volunteering, then you can complain about being stressed or a “bad day” being an excuse. But even those aren’t justifications or excuses for unethical behavior like this on the employees’ part. I say name them, shame them, and keep publicizing it until they have the guts to step forward and either explain themselves sufficiently (not that “I was frustrated” or “we wanted to take off on time” crap) or apologize profusely. You were calm, followed the rules, and were FAR more polite than 95% of us would have ever been in that situation. Name the jerks!! 😉
We’ve become a nation of cowards and idiots. There was no reason to remove this passenger. None at all. Saying magic words is not an excuse.
Still, if he really felt that he had to have a conversation with the flight attendant about photography, he should have waited until the flight was in the air for its 10-hour flight to Istanbul. No way to deplane him then, huh? 🙂
There’s really 2 things at play here, and why this post has generated a record number of comments (and thanks for posting it, Matthew!): (1) None of us want to get kicked off a plane. (2) The bigger picture of our erosion of our rights and dignities in the post 9/11 security state.
Because of (1) we’re tempted to scrutinize everything Matthew did or said. I’ve little interest in doing so, to me it’s similar to making an issue of what a victim of crime might of been wearing wearing. While I would no more use the word “terrorist” on a plane than I would use the word “bomb”, we actually have no evidence this played any part in the FA’s reaction.
(2) is much more important. When a citizen explains himself and insists on an explanation from authorities, and then we see the authorities use this as an excuse to esailate and retaliate, we should never insist the citizen should have been meeker. Having read Matthew for several years and dealt with him professionally, I have absolutely no doubt he was polite and respectful. Was he cocky in showing his card and mentioning his profession? Since when??!? Those very actions have greased wheels and opened doors in the past with United, and those of us who contract Matthew to secure reward travel on our behalf are grateful that he does so.
I understand that terrorists love to target airplanes. Almost all travelers are willing to deal with some inconvenience to lessen the risk. But we must trust that the people in authority know what they’re doing. Isreal has been dealing with this stuff for decades and I’ll bet dollars to donuts that Matthew would not have been kicked off an El Al flight for taking a picture of his screen, nor threatened with arrest for wanting a conversation.
My greatest sense of mystery is why Matthew is so loyal to United, which I’ve always found to be a substandard airline based in a contintent that has mostly substandard airlines, all engaged in a race to the bottom to just survive and to secure short-term shareholder return. But this case provides an interesting test of just how much a dedicated customer means to the people in charge, and I will be following this story with great interest.
You share at most of the blame. Right or wrong the FA asked you to stop taking photos. Appropriately you did and at that point the incident was over.
At that point you escalated the incident by again speaking to the FA even though unnecessary and did it using a very, very big buzzword that as a frequent flier you should have known not to use. Innocent or not it is one of the words when flying we warn our children to never use, just like “bomb”. If you had no desire to take more pictures then saying anything else was just…. not a good decision. If you did want to take additional pictures then you should have waited until takeoff was complete and instead of justifying why you did it before, introduced yourself and asked if you could take pictures for your travel blog.
It’s a real bummer to read this story… I’ve flown over 25,000 miles on United this year already, and these 25,000 have been the most unpleasant I’ve had in all 880,000 of them. Canceled flights due to mechanical issues, rude flight attendants acting completely inappropriately, ground staff unprofessionalism, etc. I’m definitely going to stick with United until I get my million miler status, but after that, I’m really not certain where I’ll end up taking my air travel business.
I find it utterly sad that people are blowing the ‘terrorist’ word-use out of proportion. Dumbledore said it best: “Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.”
And if you can be thrown off a plane for saying ‘terrorist,’ then definitely don’t say ‘hi’ to your friend ‘jack’ while on the plane…
Honestly, I am surprised that you are questioning your loyalty to United. If this happened to me, I would never fly them again.
“I want you to understand why I was taking pictures. I hope you didn’t think I was terrorist.”
No matter how you said it, even with the most innocent intent, that statement is condescending.
I think you should take them to Small Claims Court, at least on the extra $200+ ticket you had to buy. Not sure your chances, but it will cost them something at least in staff/attorney fees and annoyance. You’ll get more blog material from it. And you might effect some change.
Presenting a business card is not that impressive to me; anyone can get a business card printed with anything.
Agree with the posts that you should never utter words like “terrorist” or “bomb” in airports or on planes.
FA was still a jackass of course.
Unfortunately once you step inside an airport you have no rights anymore. Even if you sneeze the wrong way you are seen as a potential threat. I avoid travelling by plane nowadays. It is so stressful that I don’t think it is worth anymore. Sure, I have to travel for work and for leisure but think twice before doing so. I have many times going through security where I had to take a full breath and count to 3 to stay calm and not say what I wanted to say. They treat you like you are a piece of garbage. Once in the plane, same rules apply. Pilots, FAs, in ground personnel they all got this sense of they are above us all and they can make your life miserable if they decide to do so. For almost no reason. Once a friend of mine was in the plane and his seat did not work. He could not recline his seat. The coach class was full and he asked if the FA could accommodate him in business class. She said no way. He replied saying he had paid for the seat and that include reclining and he was not getting that. That is all he said. Once the plane landed, FA asked the passengers to remain seated and security stepped in the plane and escorted my friend out. Everyone was shocked. Once outside other passengers started to voice themselves saying he had done nothing wrong, he did not say any insults, etc… After more than 2 hours held by security in the airport my friend was given an option to sign a paper saying he assumed he was wrong and the case would be closed or if he denied he would be place on the “no fly list” and his life would be a nightmare. Welcome to the new world!!!!! People in airports and planes now have the power to make your life miserable forever.
My first flight with United several years ago it was a very unpleasant experience, the crew was rude and I said I will never fly with them again. Now with the merge with Continental it’s not that I have much of a choice. But being kick out of a plane with no explanation and just because “you are no flying this flight” and plus the threat of calling the police it’s just not fair at all. This makes me think about families and friends who travel together and like to take videos/pics in the plane for memories of the trip, and now they are not allowed to do that anymore….”stupid”. I def want to know what United will respond about this, if they ever do it, they probably will support the crew, but at least I think you deserve an apology from them and some sort of compensation.
Appalled is what I am, but I would never use the prohibited words in any conversation with the crew; or for that matter with my co-travelers on a plane for fear that it might be overheard by the crew with consequences beyond my control. Yes, many crew members are jumpy about certain words. Perhaps that is what they are trained to be.
Many people come to work under different levels of pre-acquired stress levels or under the influence of medications. It behooves us to be polite in the face of rudeness to diffuse the situation. Flashing a business card does not prove anything; it is not a Govt. issued credential. Even if it were, the airline’s rules – non-rational as they may be – trump other aspects.
Whereas handling abuse differently is a personal choice, I do applaud the ones who stick up for their rights and demand civil behavior by the crew, which ultimately benefits the airline and the weary travelers. For that, I am grateful that you have elevated the issue and plan to follow it up to get a just resolution. Good luck.
You know the joke about assholes and opinions… so here’s mine:
I’m reminded of a similar story about a stewardess who had a meltdown and yelled at a guy for asking for orange juice and then later getting him formally written up and threatening his flying status. It sounds very similar to this story except that because her behavior was so erratic and there were dozens of witnesses, the captain had to take the passengers’ side. There are a number of sociopaths in the office and the air. You encountered one. Here’s how they think:
They want to “get even” with “jerks” in their lives even as they are jerks themselves. This gives them a warped viewpoint of life. In combination with that, they love getting the upper hand. They like to think of themselves as victims of bullies, but they dream of, and rationalize, being bullies. So they wait and watch for an opportunity and you provided her with one.
She found you violating The Rules. This gives her an opportunity to Put You In Your Place, serf. You complied but then had the nerve to Talk To Her. You came across as a nice guy, but one who doesn’t Respect Her As Your Superior. You also made a faux paux and said terrorist. So you were both uppity and weak. You’re the limp gazelle and she’s the hyena.
So she lies to the captain and gets you thrown off. She no doubt secretly giggled as you were dragged away. That’s why she hid. She didn’t want to explain herself but also she worried she’d be smirking the whole time.
If you want to beat them, follow the rules. That’s all they have to get you on. Do NOT explain yourself (that only gives them ammo) (Oh, I said ammo! I would get thrown off if I said that on an airplane!) Anyways, give them nothing.
Here’s something else to ponder: Unlike the other flight where Miss Orange Juice went bonkers, no other passengers rose to your defense. Sadly, sociopaths count on that. When they go after the gazelle, the other gazelles scatter. You also wound up with a jerk for a pilot. Bad luck II. If I had been on the plane, knowing what I know, I would have backed you up and then jerk pilot would have been in a bind: He can’t throw me off simply for providing information on a situation. You might have still had to leave, but at least he and the stewardess would have lost face. And that would have made it worth it, yes?
So folks, when you see a sociopath bully, don’t sit idle and gawk with your mouth open. Say something. Act. It’s funny that many have made this about him saying the word “terrorist” yet people’s cowardice in the situation helped the stewardess to bully him. Isn’t that similar to how the terrorists took over the planes that crashed into the WTC? That passengers didn’t act?
Wow…what an awful story
I also diasagree with posters here saying this was a DYKWIA incident, imho. That term is traditionally used to reflect arrogance by the complainer, based upon their status. It’s a derogatory statement because someone is trying to pull a power trip.
In this case, Matthew was trying to explain politely (from his account) why he was taking photos. As in…I’m doing this for my blog for a report on the trip…just wanting to let you know I’m not causing you trouble. That’s not the essence of DYKWIA.
Using the terrorist word wasn’t the smartest thing to do, because the world is filled with idiots like the FA who have let that horrible event in our history impact their behavior beyond a reasonable point. Matthew wasn’t joking, making light…just saying that he wasn’t causing problems or doing something sinister.
Anyway…holy overreaction Batman (from the FA).
IMO, this is a case of 2 wrongs do not make it right. FA was probably having a bad day, grouchy because she had to commute to EWR instead of her normal LGA/JFK routine. She was enforcing the little-known no photography rule that is in place, perhaps should have been delivered in a more customer-friendly way, particularly when the passenger is in business class.
Matt, on the other hand, may have add fuel to the flame, not because of the photo taking, but by handing over the business card and mentioned that he knows people in Chicago. If he stops at he’s taking picture for the blog, there would have been no issues. The fact that he says people in HQ is reading his blog, there’s an implication of DYKWIA, intentional or not.
Moreover, there’s a lot of interpretation on the crew’s whereabouts and lack of eye contact. The FA may be simply preparing for the flight. Also, the captain lack of eye contact is one way to reduce confrontation, which, believe it or not, is fairly common in Asia. In fact, if the captain stared at the passenger and ordered him to get off the plane, the situation may have played out differently with someone who is not as professional or calm.
I’m not justifying that the crew was right – yes the FA misconstrued the facts. Nonetheless, if they believe that you may be a PITA or someone who may not comply with crewmember instructions, you get taken off the plane. I witness a similar situation on a different flight, where 2 Asian monks would not respond to the sole FA (it was a CRJ flight) and the FO because they were women. Combining with some seating issues, the captain (who is a man) threatened to take them off the plane, citing the fact that they would not comply with crewmember instructions in an emergency. They finally acknowledged that they would respond to the FA, but only in an emergency.
I’ve enjoyed reading your blog and I hope this doesn’t leave a lingering bad taste in your mouth. The whole situation is unfortunate. If nothing else, I expect most of us reading the comments that have been posted have learned a thing or two. So thanks for that. And keep blogging. Please.
PLEASE consider updating this post and NAMING both the flight attendant and the pilot. I’ve never thought that individuals who do such immoral, disrespectful, and even libelous things should be able to hide anonymously behind titles or a corporate shield. United will claim up and down all day long that this was not representative behavior of their staff and ask your and the public’s forgiveness. But someone should be held to account for incidents like this. We should not trust these matters to be handled “internally” b/c they usually aren’t. I would name those suckers all day long. Let them explain themselves and offer you a apology IF one of these apologists’ excuses for their behavior is indeed on point. I’ve seen way too many instances of FAs letting their egos get the best of them and downright abusing this whole “national security” line. No power should be unchecked, and no decision unappealable. It would not have taken long to quickly investigate (look at your phone to see of there were other photos besides the one, check the website on your biz card with a smartphone to validate your profession as a travel writer, have the captain or Global Services rep quickly speak with the other passengers around you to verify or refute the FA’s claims, etc.). And when it was quickly and obviously discovered that the FA was lying and now embarrassed, this lying further to cover it up, SHE should have been kicked off the flight. I agree with an earlier commenter that someone with that type of behavior and character and a willingness to lie repeatedly on duty to save her own butt is much more of a serious threat to everyone’s safety and security. And I’ve never bought the apologist lines about FAs being busy and overworked and having a bad day… We all work and most of us work hard at what we do. Business class fliers are rarely spoiled little rich kids; they’re usually here b/c they bust their tails to be successful in their own jobs, which includes sucking it up when the job gets tough and putting on a game face. You are, after all, the one actually BEING PAID to be there, while the customer is the one paying. If you are volunteering, then you can complain about being stressed or a “bad day” being an excuse. But even those aren’t justifications or excuses for unethical behavior like this on the employees’ part. I say name them, shame them, and keep publicizing it until they have the guts to step forward and either explain themselves sufficiently (not that “I was frustrated” or “we wanted to take off on time” crap) or apologize profusely. You were calm, followed the rules, and were FAR more polite than 95% of us would have ever been in that situation. Name the jerks!! 😉
You state word for word exactly what each person said to you. How is this possible unless you recorded the communications back and forth? Please explain.
That one word was your problem. What does pulling out a business card that anybody could print on a home computer prove? “See it says right on there, I am NOT a terrorist!” Of course if you were actually Muslim and in Arab garb, CAIR would file your lawsuit and you would be national news by now.
“Even though the 9/11 attacks were over a decade ago…”
You were probably too young to fully comprehend the events of 9/11. And perhaps, you are still too young. Certain words have no place on airplanes.
Seriously, I would sue if for no other reason than to get the FA’s deposition. She slandered you – it’s a tort.
What bothers me about these comments is it shows what sheep we’ve become. “Keep your head down, do t Rick the boat, avoid bad people on power trips, they’ll put you on the no fly list if you stick up for yourself”….it’s all just so sad.
How anyone can defend United here (unless you think Matthew is lying) is just dumbfounding.
I am very sorry to hear about your experience with United. As a Captain with 28 years I have empathy for you getting on the wrong side of a Flight Attendant. Your experience, while rare, does not surprise me. I have spent many hours deadheading, pass riding, and riding as a paying passenger. Most of my experiences were good but there were times when that one outlier Flight Attendant (F/A), or Captain for that matter, was an embarrassment. Being a fellow employee I could only watch; embarrassed for my airline.
It is unfortunate that the confluence of events produced the worst outcome for your travel day. The trajectory of events could have been changed had another F/A, a proactive Captain, or, a fellow passenger spoke up on your behalf.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely and in the case of a F/A having a bad day, combining their perception that they can order you to do something, and if you don’t comply you’re in violation of the law, reasonable or not, things can go really badly.
It appears that you complied and did nothing wrong. You ended up on the bad side of the F/A that day. I have been on their bad side too. They couldn’t kick me off because I was flying the plane. I didn’t eat the crew meal that day!
If it makes you feel any better I’ve know Captains to remove F/A’s before the flight too, so it’s not just passengers.
Isn’t always that ten percent that screw it up?
Again I am sorry to hear of your experience with my airline.
I recently went to Boeing’s Museum of Flight in Seattle. As I was touring some of the old planes and looking at the exhibits of how flying was luxurious and posh, it reminds me of how horrible of an experience it can be now. What makes it a bad experience is that airlines have lost their focus on what customers expect. In the days of an overly enthusiastic TSA and the fact that flying is really the only viable alternative, the airlines are lazy when it comes to truly giving customers a good experience–we just accept the poor experience, like we accept the TSA’s dumb rules.
This is a severe example of how badly the experience gets. Neither the attendant or the captain considered your long-standing “VIP” status with United and omitted your pleas. Imagine if you were sent away from XYZ retail store, because you took a photo of a product and they escorted you out? It would be all over the news of how poorly you were treated, yet with commercial aviation, this sort of treatment is acceptable. This just gives me another reason to keep off of United’s planes.
It disappoints me that most people commenting here that have a problem with Matthew’s behavior totally ignore the point of the post which was that the FA lied. Whether or not you like the fact that Matthew used the word “terrorist” or took a picture is beside the point. The FA lied and that is completely unacceptable.
While there are plenty of rude and entitled FTers out there, I can’t imagine that Matthew isn’t one of the most courteous and pleasant passengers any cabin crew could hope to have on their flight. Accusations of him being entitled are ridiculous.
I understand that crew are responsible for safety, but i’m getting very tired of some crews that choose to pretend that they are not in a customer service job! Yes, safety is your #1 priority, but that does not have to get in the way of providing decent or even excellent customer service. There are plenty of UA cabin crew that prove they can provide great customer service without compromising safety. Jeff keeps talking about “leading airline” but you have to have leading customer service as well. Smiling does not compromise safety! Saying “would you like” instead of “ya wanna” does not compromise safety. For every FA that I hear complain about PAX saying “gimme a” there’s another FA that says “ya wanna” to me in first class.
Passengers do need to be more courteous to crews, but crews have to understand that they get paid to be friendly, and passengers pay to have friendly service. How would you like it if you went to a restaurant and the food tasted awful and you complained and the chef tells you “I’m primarily here for your safety and that food wont give you food poisoning, so I did my job.” Its true that not giving you food poisoning is the #1 priority of the chef but they also need to make it taste good.
FA lying is getting out of control. Because there doesn’t seem to be any consequences for it or any way of getting caught, it only encourages the behavior. This needs to stop, but if a customer service focus was emphasized from management and enforced perhaps FAs wouldn’t feel so comfortable about lying.
I do want to stress that there are plenty of crews out there that provide excellent safety AND excellent service. Please don’t think i’m complaining about you. The ex-Pan Am crews especially come to mind. I appreciate everything you do and encourage you to keep it up. Thank you for your safety AND your service!
I hope Matthew can get enough witnesses in this incident to force United to recognize that there is a problem here and at the very least have a talk with the crew in question. I find it ridiculous that anyone comments here saying that they were worried about safety, given that they put Matthew on the next flight out!
Matthew seems like a smart guy, I’m sure that next time the argument will happen after he lands…
You were on a legacy CONTINENTAL plane with a legacy CONTINENTAL crew.
EWR > IST is a CO-staffed route with CO equipment. The unions are still negotiating a joint contract. Therefore, there is absolutely no way that legacy United staff kicked you off of that aircraft.
Get it right next time so that you don’t slander and rant irresponsibly again.
I am a United captain.
Interesting story and I am sure that your perspective is the only one. A couple of things come to mind that you don’t get. The captain is responsible for the safety of the the flight and ALL of the the passengers on board. He also has a responsibility to operate the plane professionally and on time ( passengers actually get angry if we aren’t on time). When a FA comes up front with an issue, I as the captain, ask this question…Are you comfortable with this situation? I don’t want to go into the air with an unresolved situation that can escalate, and I am sorry but when I say unresolved, I mean is the crew comfortable with this person. If the answer is no then they are off. Details at that point are unimportant. Couple that with it being time to close the door and get going and you have an easy solution. Remove the source.
Here are also a couple of tips when traveling.
Don’t use words or joke about guns bombs terrorists and the like, they will get you negative attention every time.
Don’t use fowl or vulgar language when discussing why you can’t put your bag above your seat or whatever last straw is nagging you. That is a deal breaker when deciding what to do.
Don’t joke about drunk pilots. You won’t get thrown off the plane but in many cases that plane will not be going while the crew get off and go get tested to prove their innocence.
@Max: Thanks for your comment, but you are incorrect here. EWR-IST is operated by a legacy UA 767-300 retrofitted in a two-cabin config (the former “ghetto birds”). Trust me, I fly enough to know the difference between a UA and CO staff (for one, their uniforms are very different). And this was a PMUA crew–I didn’t want to speculate so I didn’t specify the base, but I would have guessed Chicago based on the accents of the FAs.
“I am a United captain. Interesting story and I am sure that your perspective is the only one.”
Passive aggressive and self-important much?
I also am an ex-con United employee. There are a few good reasons for the no photo rule. I’ve had numerous medical emergencies where people pull out their cameras and start filming. A little privacy please especially if we are exposing a woman’s breast to use the defib. The rule also pertains to us as crew members. Do you really want us taking pictures of you when you’ve had a couple of drinks took ambien then take off your close and start masturbating in your seat in business first when everyone else is asleep. Yes this did happen. My second thought after we got him to put his close on was “why didn’t I YouTube that”. No I didn’t make a big deal of it or call the police because no other passenger saw it. Why embarrass the man? I’m sorry this happened to you. The policy is you can take pics of yourself and friends on the plane. I don’t know why this Fa felt threatened. Obviously communication is not her forte.
Come fly with me it’s always a fun time. I will tell you though. Don’t be sick when you board. I don’t take pukers.
I agree, shame on UA. But, quite frankly, you acted like a DYKWIA. Have you seen the photo on the masthead of your blog? It speaks volumes about what I think is your attitude.
I had no idea you are only 26, but as an experienced traveler and blogger you really should know better. Don’t say the “T” word. You know the authority game.
You state that you only took one picture, but we all know you intended to take more. FA knew it too, especially once you handed your “business card” saying you are a blogger. (Read: entitled to take photos.)
FA knows your 1K status by the manifest and they could care less if you are a blogger or Wendy Perrin, UA has a media team to decide who is ‘media’ and can authorize photos. Photo issue is a big one, all of us take photos. Is UA going to go to every blog and FT post and ask for takedowns? It doesn’t surprise me they invite instagram photos too. The good of your story is that UA will likely clarify their photo policies.
All that said, UA was wrong. This story only highlights the serious customer service problems United has, and CO has surprisingly only made them worse.
They were all rude to you, sure, but as someone with nearly 1 million flight miles under your belt you should’ve known better than to say terrorist on a plane. I fly once or twice a year and I know that! Most airports they say repeatedly over the loud speaker not to even JOKE about it. It might be ridiculous but it’s not a secret.
Interesting to read both the story and comments. I wonder if the “no picture” policy is something that’s recently been reiterated to staff.
I had a United ground crew employee try to wrest control of my cell phone after he became highly agitated that I was filming a police action that was occurring in a terminal (not on an aircraft) at IAD. He stated that filming in the airport was against United policy/airport rules (despite me being aware of http://technorati.com/technology/article/federal-courts-rule-it-is-not/).
After he tried to grab the phone, I asked the police to please weigh in, and they confirmed I had the right to film in the terminal. I spoke to a manager on duty about the issue, showed him the video that had the employee harassing me, but despite having a chat with the employee, the employee REFUSED to apologize for his actions.
When writing to corporate, United simply provided a cut and paste response apologizing that “you did not feel as though you were treated with dignity and respect” even though the employee physically grabbed my property. Though I’ve asked for an apology directly from the employee, United appears to not be responding. Good luck with a formal response to your issue.
I was actually on this exact flight in the BusinessFirst cabin of UA904 (sitting on the aisle in one of the first few rows right by the galley) and witnessed most of the incident. Just to confirm, the passenger never seemed to act unruly and actually remained very level headed throughout the entire ordeal. The flight attendant darted behind my field of vision into another part of the BF cabin, came right back up and went to the other flight attendants. She said something to the effect of “There is a customer in the back of the cabin taking pictures of us while we work.” She then disappeared for a while (presumably to go talk to the captain?) and I actually didn’t think much of it. There were several FlyerTalk/Milepoint members on the flight (I saw by their luggage tags) and I actually just assumed it was a member of that group documenting for a trip report. I’m actually shocked to read what ultimately transpired and see the actual photo. Amusingly, I took the exact same photo from my seat showing the flight map / flight path from EWR-IST, uploaded it to social media and was not thrown off the plane for doing so. The gentleman sitting next to me in BF did the exact same thing, in fact.
The event seemed so innocuous that I really just moved on without thinking twice. This is really just bizarre to me and while I obviously wasn’t a part of the private conversations, I can assure you there really was no ruckus or disturbance to the BF cabin beyond the initial outburst by the FA. Weird escalation.
UAL Captain and Tracy, it’s nice to hear your input as UA employees. However, please note that Matthew doesn’t have an issue with the captain’s actions in this case (other than that he felt the captain was rude and cowardly by not looking him in the eye) and he certainly wasn’t taking pictures of other passengers. Therefore your comments do not address the absurdity of having a FA falsely accuse him of continuing to take pictures.
Enough is really enough with the ridiculous security-related excuses for mistreating passengers. You might say that your lives are on the line every day, but you know what? We passengers are flying too and equally at risk – and most of us could really not care less if someone snaps a few photos.
In fact, I’ve been invited to the flight deck of a UA 747 (pre-flight) to take pictures of my daughter sitting in a pilot’s chair. Why the double standard? Either taking pictures is dangerous and needs to be banned completely, or it’s not dangerous and you folks need to back off.
I appreciate the perspective of the captain here and his comments make a lot of sense. As others have pointed out, the fact is that the FA lied when s/he reported that Matthew was taking photos of the cabin crew. (This was reported to be the case by other passengers).
I would argue that lying flight attendants are a greater threat to the safety of the passengers than a guy taking a photo of the video display. Let’s not forget this incident. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dDTZykoKu0
I don’t blame the captain. I blame the FA. The person should be punished and reprimanded and Matthew should be given an apology by UA.
PK’s comment 184 was fascinating:
http://upgrd.com/matthew/thrown-off-a-united-airlines-flight-for-taking-pictures.html#c9451
“They want to “get even” with “jerks” in their lives even as they are jerks themselves.”
That reminds me of the tiny minority of people who take it upon themselves to enforce the speed limit by driving 55 mph in the left lane. They tell themselves that it’s their good deed for the day when it’s actually about exerting power over others in perhaps the only way available to them in their lives. Kind of pathetic when you think about it.
It’s too bad that we’ll never know the true reason behind the FA’s reaction. It’s possible that the FA doesn’t even know.
All that said, I think firing would be far too severe a penalty, representing a financial loss to the FA of hundreds of thousands of dollars. These jobs are irreplaceable. A warning, sure, but not firing.
I just thought of one possible explanation based on the reported statement that “There is a customer in the back of the cabin taking pictures of us while we work.” What if this particular FA had been reprimanded recently based on a passenger video of her behavior which she felt was clipped to remove exculpatory context? That would make her very sensitive to passengers’ use of camera phones. If this were the case then the “I’m a blogger” (therefore I’m likely to capture and post your worst in-flight moments) comment is what set the FA off.
This is absolutely astounding. We see a lot of photos on Trip Reports on Ft.
I think the FA was having a real poor day, though that is the worst excuse ! Perhaps she took out her frustrations or wrath re the second pax who had words with her and she just either misidentify you or thought you were “easier” to throw out !
I would expect US to knock on your doors with basketful of goodies including a few systemwide upgrades.
One question to you : WHy did you not offer your camera to GS rep or th ecaptain to show you STOPPED after one photo that showed no person as a part of it ?
I’m so sorry this has happened to you. You did consider every possible conclusion within this scenario, & you are correct that the FA should be held accountable for her actions. I work for another airline & was privy to pictures on Twitter of our seats & other areas of the plane when a customer was excited or there was something wrong, so I do not understand UA’s stand on taking photos. You clearly did not violate anything within their statement. I hope this will be resolved for you soon & congratulations on your Million Miler status, that is a lot of miles to fly, especially when you are so young!
In addition to the word “terrorist” you accused the FA of lying, which probably did nothing but aggravate the situation. I can’t imagine that she knew her accusation was false. I agree, the use of the word terrorist was probably what got you thrown off the flight, but you should also have characterized her statement as a misunderstanding and offered to let her inspect your iPhone to see that you only took the one single picture and stopped after her warning.
Now I’m going to rock the boat here, and say that although it wasn’t handled in the most professional way, I believe the FA was simply doing her job. We live in a post 9-11 world of tight safety regulations, and situations that would be dealt with leniently on the ground take on a much higher significance onboard an aircraft.
As a member of cabin crew myself, there are safety policies that seem silly to passengers but still have to be upheld. I know many of you regard us merely as ‘flying waitresses’ but as our prime concern is safety. If we have the slightest safety concern onboard an aircraft it is our duty to report it, regardless of whether a passenger is a frequent flyer or not. Taking photographs may seem innocent enough, and 99% of the time it is. However if someone from a terrorist organisation was that way inclined, taking photographs of aircraft seats and equipment could be used to note, for example, potential stowages to hide bombs or materials with which to create explosives. FAs have a lot to do while boarding and she may have not realised you had only taken one photo, and that it was just your screen, and the fact you even mentioned the word ‘terrorist’ wouldn’t have helped your cause either.
Of course this seems fantastical and melodramatic, but if you were an FA and it just so happened someone was taking photographs on your flight to be used for not so innocent purposes which resulted in a terrorist attack, you would kick yourself for not having dealt with the situation appropriately. Once you’re in the air, that’s it, you’re stuck.
The United captain says “Don’t use fowl or vulgar language”.
“Excuse me, ma’am, can you help me get these damn guinea hens in the overhead?”
Thank you for posting. It redoubles my determination to extend my wonderful 5 year long stretch avoiding that miserable airline.
OK, I wonder if someone else noticed this: “Don’t joke about drunk pilots. You won’t get thrown off the plane but in many cases that plane will not be going while the crew get off and go get tested to prove their innocence.”
So it appears that passengers have their own nasty little games, if they were so inclined, they could play:
“Pardon me. But your co-worker over there who told me to stop taking pictures seemed a bit slurred. I think I saw her drinking beer before boarding. Could you talk to the captain about it?”
Welcome to post 9-11 America folks!
It’s astonishing how many commenters here are using “we live in a post 9/11 world” as a substitute for substantive argument. As if mere trigger words (even when preceded by “not”) legitimately might cause when happened here. This line of thinking just begs to be challenged with reductio ad absurdums. Really sloppy critical thinking, folks.
Relatedly, many are conflating issues. The issue here is not about whether the photo policy is good or bad (I happen to strongly believe it’s bad), or even how that policy should be made known to passengers. You can make good arguments on either side for that, but it’s tangential. The critical issue, and the issue that the author correct honed in on before commenters went off track, was the flight attendant flat-out lied to the captain and that the passenger was kicked off the flight based on factually incorrect information delivered by a flight attendant with colossally sloppy contextual awareness.
Let’s run through the various scenerios and try to find out what the problem is:
SCENARIO 1
1. Passenger takes photo of seat.
2. Flight attendant tells passenger to stop.
3. Passenger stops.
4. Passenger removed from airplane for failing to stop taking photos.
SCENARIO 2
1. Passenger takes photo of seat.
2. Flight attendant tells passenger to stop.
3. Passenger stops.
4. Passenger explains his actions. Flight attendant is intimaded by this action.
5. Passenger removed from airplane for failing to stop taking photos.
SCENARIO 3
1. Pasenger takes photo of seat.
2. Flight attendant tells passenger to stop.
3. Passenger stops.
4. Passenger explains his actions. Flight attendant is intimidated by passenger’s use of the word “terrorist.”
5. Passenger removed from airplane for failing to stop taking photos.
In any of these three scenarios, the fault lies solely with the flight attendant, because the concluding step never follows from the earlier ones. This is the “lie.” It is prima facie the problem. Scenario 1 is actually the best-case scenario, because it only involves a lie.
Scenario 2 adds another step to the lie. In step 4, the flight attendant is intimidated or otherwise angered by a passenger explaining his actions. This causes the lie, but is itself a greater fault on the flight attendant. If a flight attendant is intimidated by a reasonable explanation presented reasonably, there is something else wrong.
Scenario 3 is the worst of all. The flight attendant reacted to the mere mention of a word, and lied to protect herself. Although the rights of free expression do not apply to aircraft, it is easy to see the chilling effect of allowing individual words to set off such a severe reaction.
But it all comes down to the lie. The passenger’s behavior is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT after he stops taking the photos. He is removed because the flight attendant claimed that he did not comply. Do not make this more complicated than that. The passenger complied. The flight attendant had the passenger removed from the airplane for failing to comply. End of story.
Close?
Thanks for this well written account.
These employees were clearly wrong and did not care about customer service. I hope you are justly compensated.
Whether right or wrong, you never have anything but a pleasant conversation with the flight crew before the aircraft takes off. Document everything and complain once at your destination.
As you noted, what is done is done and nothing you do from this point on will change your situation, albeit, make it worse. Now, the issue is no longer a FA disagreement, but the Captain removed you from the flight. If they give you anything, even the time of day, they undermine their pilot which is not going to happen.
Hate to say it, but you should have stopped taking the pictures (like you did), apologize, and not mention the subject again……….
That’s why I only take pictures after the wheels are up.
I do feel sorry that this happened. I have to admit though, I want my crew to be vigilant and when someone references “not being a terrorist” for behavior that has corrected, I think it gives them every right to make that decision. I know it was just a slip of a poor word choice, but in these times it strikes me that they had to err on the side of caution.
Story should be titled petty confrontation that you elevated at one point and then confrontation got further elevated and you ended on losing end. Are you angry now because you feel that you were in the right or just angry that you were on the short end of the confrontation?
I would be pretty annoyed if some passenger was arguing with a FA over taking photos and continuing this petty discussion by offering business cards etc. In my opiniopn it was immature of you to continue your discussion over something so trivial. “Sit down and shut up” would have been my thought. Also anyone with any experience should know that you don’t use the word “terrorist” on a flight. I would be bothered by any passenger arguing with a FA using that word. At minimum . That was just thoughtless at best. Whether it was unreasonable to get kicked off is not so clear. You were definitely causing a stir And I have seen plenty of jack__es doing stupid things holding up flights. If the FA had lied, which we don’t really know (for example, the Captain could have stated it imprecisely) then you have your argument. But you were also part of the problem by escalating the whole initial confrontation. It would be interesting at a trial as one sided stories are never the real picturs. Everyone has a one sided story to tell. …. Makes an interesting blog story.
Huh, I’m a flight attendant. Taking pictures aren’t allowed on-board the plane? Should have lost my job by now. Haha! If this truly is policy, flight attendants should be trained on it, and passengers should be informed. I say let people take pictures! I know I do when I’m up in Business or First. In 6 1/2 years I’ve only had one passenger kicked off the plane and that was because he was intoxicated, and an FAA guy pointed him out to me. Would have loved to have sit next to you to see how this truly inspired. – If it went down like you said it did, that’s pretty jacked up. Looking forward to the response from United.
I side with the subsidiary United crew on this one, hands down.
First, young lawyers who attended non-prestigious law schools often have a pathological need to “prove” themselves and “win” every argument, no matter how trivial. And they also tend to be very socially awkward.
Second, in his “chat” with the flight attendant, Matt admitted he has the means, contacts, and motive to portray the flight and its crew in an unfavorable light and to jeopardize their flying careers. That’s a threat regardless of the thoughtless “terrorist” remark.
I was on this flight in row one. So I heard the earlier parts of the FAs discussion on the photo takers before I lost interest and watched a movie or something.
There was one mitigating circumstance. The FA in question was a huge busybody. The kind of person who tells everyone “I’m going to 4!” when they press a button in a elevator. She was pretty shot out of a canon and I remember being surprised the other FAs where ready to toss her out of the door.
But she was more flabbergasted and excitable than angry. Whatever you said to her changed the situation to a much more serious one and it became “this guy’s potentially nuts and needs to go.” You think you explained to be polite. But actually you were insulted that she thought you were a jerk and you wanted to show her that you are a nice guy. She was fine, you had the problem being told that you can’t follow rules. You broke the rules, you should have taken her scolding and shut up. That’s it.
If an FA has an issue with me for any reason, and all of those reasons have been a mystery to me and other passengers, I apologize with a 3-4 word standard clause and get back to my life. I have no interest in arguing with a potential wacky person or someone who just may be having a really bad day. Particularly when they have 100% of the power in the situation. Your role after breaking the rules is being the passenger who knows his place.
If United feels free to deal with a 1K customer this way, when UA ought to have their long record profile… I cannot imagine how they deal with other passengers.
Disgusting and appalling.
I used to have elite status on United, but I let it lapse because the flight experience on the airline is so consistently horrible. Tired old flight crews on tired old aircraft treating passengers badly as they sit in overpriced seats.
I’m lucky to live near a hub airport where new competitors provide a viable alternative to United. Indeed, once you start flying other airlines, the contrast becomes even more stark, because you then realize how truly abysmal the United flight experience really is.
All of which is to say… not at all surprised that this happened to you. United Airlines is sad, and should be avoided.
As a united flight attendant, I have to say that there is such a disconnect between crew members and passengers that ‘chasm’ would be a better word to describe that distance. In the ultimate scheme of things, should the guy have been kicked off the flight? No. However, too many passengers just don’t know how to follow rules–NONE OF WHICH FLIGHT ATTENDANTS WRITE AND MUST ENFORCE!!! Do you think that we like confronting customers to turn this or that off after the 26th time??? Write your congressman and tell him/her that you want it changed! But, until that time, we can’t give you permission to pee when the seat belt sign is on or to try to discern and describe for you what UNITED REALLY MEANT about its photography policy. Aside from companies paying for most of the elite passengers tickets anyway, I don’t understand why more people of means don’t just fly NetJets or something, or just move to Asia where the nice Asian people pamper you the way it should be? We have so much to deal with from even before you board until after the last person has deplaned. As human beings, we tend to remember the god-awful things that happen to us, hardly ever the good ones. When was the last time any of you wrote the company and thanked an airline representative for nice service, or going the extra mile. Yet, here many of you are, in your executive jobs and with business cards, calling for the head of someone with a middle-class job which might not even be around for her in a few years with this economy. Could she have handled the situation differently, yes. But, as others have pointed out, more than the blogger was taking pictures. Yet, HE was the only one thrown off. Poor angel of god that he is, apparently. Most of us work hard. Yet, none of it gets recognized by management, or by customers who only want to write when they feel that service has been lousy, instead of the other way around. Many have left the airlines because of the low pay and the attitudes of 97% of the posters here. Perhaps, that flight attendant will think about it as well–I know that I am. Almost free tickets on constantly full flights aren’t worth the sense of entitlement that passengers pack in their rollerboards that we have to work like magicians to stow!
scenario 1 pax wouldn’t get booted
Chris’s comment above is perfectly on-point. Some others seem off-track, either wading in ad-homimens concerning the author’s disposition or sense of entitlement, or a reading comprehension fail concerning the sequence of events (unfortunately not helped by the poor subject choice for this article).
But let’s say the photo thing didn’t happen and instead it was just the trigger word that started this. Setting aside the absurdity of the conclusions the FA would have drawn from merely mentioning the word (even if proceeded by “not”), folks forget that safety is part a set of nuanced trade-offs. We don’t have speed limits of 1mph because there are consequences (in this case, foreseeable and visible). The fact that consequences are hidden and unintended to not make them any less consequences. The most extreme and provocative example of a trade-off here is some research done by economists suggesting more people have died after 9/11 solely from substituting from flying into driving (which is significantly less safe) than actually died on 9/11 itself. You can disagree with the estimation of the variables, but the fundamental logic of safety trade-offs is unavoidable.
As such, if this were a smaller domestic flight, I would argue that the slight margin being pushed in favor of even just this passenger driving a car after being kicked off the flight is a bigger ding to safety than keeping him on the plane. But of course it’s “out of sight, out of mind” to the flight attendants, even if they could reason this far.
So folks engaged in this kind of “categorical safety” reasoning are ending their argument too soon. It is necessary but not sufficient to claim that there is a safety/risk issue with a trigger word (that estimation is an entirely other debate, but let’s say for the sake of argument it is a minute safety concern). To complete the argument, such defenders would have to consider the chain of consequences occurring in the other direction (for example, people avoiding United, costs to the airline) and argue convincingly that avoiding the expected probability-adjusted security risks (minutely small) outweigh the unintended consequences/costs (slightly less minutely small, I would argue). People can’t even get to stage 1 of this line of reasoning because thinking in terms of trade-offs seems very unnatural.
Perhaps this was the same flight attendant who lied to the captain about me several years back. I had purchased a seat for my son who had turned 2 years old just a few days before the flight. Boarding was delayed 3 hours for mechanical reasons and then there was a lengthy (>1 hr) delay at the gate once on board. It was now past 10 pm and my son was beyond tired but not crying or making any fuss. I allowed him to curl up in my lap to try to sleep…which worked. the FA informed me that he needed to be buckled. I complied, he was buckled into his seat but his head was laying in my lap. She told me that he needed to be sitting up. I said as soon as we pull away from the gate I will make sure he is upright. She disappeared and then a few minutes later the pilot made an announcement that there was a passenger on board “I believe it is our youngest passenger.” Who is refusing to cooperate with the flight crew and that the plane would not move until the passenger cooperates or we get the airport police on board to remove him and his mother”. The flight attendant stood over me and glared. I positioned my son upright and she then went over and made a call on the plane’s phone. The plane still did not move for over 30 minutes during which my son cried and fussed the whole time. I am sure all of the surrounding passengers appreciated that. I did not fly United for many years after that episode.
By the way, the issue would’ve never escalated to a ‘the flight attendant lied’ or ‘flight attendant’s word vs customer’s word’ if he would’ve simply said, ‘You got it!’ Again, too many times customers want to take our their frustrations with the company on us. If we had our way, there’d be no baggage fees. That way, we wouldn’t have to try and make room for YOURS or you get upset with US that we have to check them at the gate. We wish that all of the planes had internet, and that you wouldn’t have to pay. We’re sorry that you have to pay for meals now and liquor if you don’t give us one of the many chits that united gives YOU for your loyalty. Sorry that the U.S. has age discrimination laws so that all of your flight attendants don’t look like Asian geisha girls where they have to quit at a certain age or reach a certain weight–kind of like how the U.S. industry was in the early part of last century! Moral of the story…take your issues with whatever policies that you have with the airlines to people who can actually do something about it (Congress, airline management, etc.) instead of picking on the lowly customer service agents/flight attendants that have to enforce them or pay penalties. Yes. How many of you even knew/know that the FAA can fine us, sometimes thousands of dollars for not enforcing their regulations? But, since we make so much $$$ as it is, just keep calling for us to get fired.
A while ago a musician, David Carroll, had his guitars broken by United and couldn’t get any remediation. He wrote a song “United Breaks Guitars”, made a video which went viral on YouTube, then a couple more videos. And wrote a book telling the backstory behind making the videos and the ordeal with United customer service.
Maybe you should get David Carroll write you a song and to make a video, or do similar to what he did. Be fun to see “United Flight Attendents Lie”
http://www.unitedbreaksguitars.com
I doubt United would like to become the focus of another social media blow up again.
It’s an outrage that the FA got a bug up her ass about taking a harmless photo on a plane. Unfortunately the use of the t-word probably ruined the situation, but the FA’s initial behaviour was out of line. Why not try filling out the complaint at http://www.untied.com/ ?
There’s no shortage of praise and criticism on the forum but perhaps this word of (hopefully useful) advice: Read the policy and find a way to use the rules to your advantage.
Rather than talk to Miss Crazy, you should have (and continue to have the option if you don’t make a ruckus over this), to ask for permission. The policy says that UNAUTHORIZED pictures are strictly prohibited.
What about authorized pictures?
Go through the contact list of the airlines and find the public relations arm. Explain to them what you do and that many passengers want to take pictures and the policy needs to be clearer. Then… ask for permission in writing with a defined set of limits (such as not ok to photograph the stewardess, other people without asking, etc.) Get the letter and carry it with you.
Then when Miss Bossypants runs down the aisle towards you, calmly wait for her to finish and then say, “Listen, I have a letter authorizing me to take photos. May I get it out?” Instant stifle. She’ll then have to shuffle her way to the back muffled. In addition, she’ll think twice before picking a fight with you!
RE: Elizabeth’s awful experience. That’s just out of line in this increasingly bizarre world of ours. People just don’t know to use common sense. RE: Kevin flight attendant. You’re right,there does seem at times a divide between crew and pax, but really it’s more than that, general societal behavior has collapsed. I’d like to see an airline which truly has clean airplanes, good food, and professional, service- friendly FAs. Equally the airline would require gentlemen/boys in suit and tie, and laced shoes/loafers; ladies/girls in dresses, white gloves,hat and heels/flats or pumps. Um, also no backpacks or carry-on luggage, save for purse and/or laptop, or carry-on food or drinks, save for formula. The airline’s onboard service afterall will handle that. Seriously. Oh, and to make money, no award seats, just paying passengers. What’s not to like? I’m not being flippant at all. I mean I’ve been sick of seeing shabby demeanor and attire from flip flops (safety?) to butt-crack-showing gangsta baby pants on ‘men’. It could be called RetroAir or SelectAir. The big challenge would to find enough people willing to support said airline and then teach some of those how to dress and real manners. I mean, how many people in their 70s and 90s fly who recall the days of decorum. This could be an interesting experiment in the 21st century world gone to the dawgs. It takes two to make for a pleasant flight, pax and crew. Still, NetJets sounds nice, and probably is one of the few alternatives to avoid the Greyhound of the skies.
To Kevin,
As an long-time airline employee myself (not United) I’m generally pro-employee but you really sound so angry in your post. Believe me I’ve encountered my share of passengers who are total jerks (ridiculous demands, arguing moot issues, totally obnoxious) but this story sounds plausible, albeit he should have avoided the use of the “wrong” word “terrorist” while trying to explain. But really, is this a reason to over-react on the part of the FA, put on her PowerTrip stance, go to the Captain and get the passenger kicked off immediately ? Because we have to have zero-tolerance for stupid mistakes ?? I truly feel that some employees don’t want to get in trouble or be written up for wrong things so they immediately turn it on the customer, embellish the facts. I personally would have quietly leaned into the guy and diplomatically told him what the airline’s position is on the matter and that as long as he (the passenger) was perfectly clear about it from this point on, we are all good to go. She could have at least tried that. His mistake was not to answer initially (he may have come off as aloof or sarcastic) and then he brings it up again (which does appear as wanting to have the last word) – so, I can understand her annoyance but alittle bit of patience and explanation on her part would have avoided this awkward situation for everyone.
I have had numerous problems with American carriers,,,,I now fly Turkish Airlines for all my international flights,,,,, they want my business and treat me like a person)))))
I tweeted this story, changing the title to “Thrown Off a @United Airlines Flight because a flight attendant lied.”
While the Captain ultimately has discretion over who flies and who doesn’t, this situation is borderline obscene because of the FA’s conduct.
You should consider filing a complaint with the US DOT:
http://www.dot.gov/airconsumer/file-consumer-complaint
You should also see if the policy that appears in the Hemispheres magazine regarding your photography also appears in the Contract of Carriage, to strengthen your claim with United.
You said the word terrorist on an airplane. Why not ask to get added to the no fly list? Some people just don’t know when to stop talking.
@Airline Employee. It’s not about being ‘angry’. It’s about being frustrated. Personally, I wish that before every passenger boards an aircraft, s/he would have to read, sign and consent to everything that the FAA, TSA and said airline’s rules state. Likewise, I wish that every passenger were made aware of the thousands of rules that were made supposedly for their safety and comfort. Wouldn’t this make it easier on everyone? I mean, printing it in the Hemispheres magazine in small print obviously isn’t doing it, now is it? Who reads the darn thing, anyway? I can’t tell you how many times we have to repeat the menu options on international flights or run down the list of drinks we have onboard because very few people take the time to read even after our announcements (which no one listens to) direct customers where to find information. Right there in that same Hemispheres magazine is united’s one alcoholic beverage at a time rule. I can’t tell you how many customers have gotten upset with me, this year alone, when I tell them that I can’t give them two red wines/two beers/two minis at the same time only to be told, “Well you’re the only one enforcing it!” If I had a united ghost rider onboard and handed two drinks to the same person at the same time, guess who would be in trouble? Even though it’s united’s policy that economy customers not cross the curtain to use the first/business class toilets, regardless of how close it is or that people are ‘inconvenienced’ for having to walk to the back of the plane (despite airline status), am I the bad person for re-directing them? Or, should I just make the real First Class customer wait for the economy customer(despite airline status) do #2??? Which one should I do? Many times, the lowly, bottom-of-the-totem-pole employee is caught in between management/government (policy) and customer (expectations). It’s not a great place to be, I tell you. Where does the onus lie? On whom does it lie? But 9 times out of 10, the repercussions fall onto the employee- worker, in this case, the flight attendant. If a customer doesn’t like that I didn’t serve two drinks and writes a letter about my attitude what not, I STILL have to explain how I could have handled the situation differently! Really? I would LOVE to give three, four, five drinks at a time! But, that’s not the policy. Would customers have us overlook policy, or tailor it to fit each individual situation? The same thing with the customer that moves into Economy Plus without paying for it. Should we ask them to move back, since other customers have paid extra for it. Or, should we risk that customer being embarrassed for having to move back? Do we just let it slide, even though the person who paid for the seat gives us a mouthful about how the other person just ‘moseyed’ up there? Now, guess which one is company policy? Can you see how the flight attendant can’t win for losing? The only thing that I’m trying to point out is that much of what customers describe as ‘power trips’ by flight attendants are many times just enforcing (or at least asking–because we still see people texting under their coats, getting up while the seat belt side is on, crossing the curtains to use the nearest toilet, etc.)what either the government or the airline has asked us to. Personally, I would’ve handled the situation differently. At the same time, I bring up the fact again, that the blogger was not the only one taking pictures. Yet, he was the only one removed. And if this ‘same flight attendant’ that other people saw policing the aisle didn’t try to get those others off of the plane, what did the blogger do that he found himself getting other accommodations to Istanbul while they stayed with their original itineraries? I say, just do away with all of the darn rules. Oh, wait! That would mean that the other half of people would then start complaining and taking to social media and calling for flight attendants’ heads while calling their local TV station for cable news network, all the while extolling how the service on every country’s airlines except for American ones are far superior. #flightattendantscan’twinforlosing#
What’s next, a SWAT team and trauma counselors for the crew and passengers on the flight?
Zero tolerance has gone too far. Of course certain “scary” words should be avoided but this is ridiculous. Zero tolerance = zero intelligence and common sense. My brother’s name is Jack, guess I better not say “HI JACK” when he comes into the airport to see me.
You put your foot in your mouth with your sense of entitlement and stupidity- suffer the consequences. You were about to go up 30,000+ in a tin can with hundreds of other people…it’s not just about you and your self-indulgent and douchey blog.
@steve#236…LOL! Spot on, man! 🙂 If customers REALLY knew what one of OUR days was like. Just read, again, about 97% of the replies on here. The venom spewing forth! This is what WE deal with. But, the 3% is what keeps us going. When they see an unruly passenger and say things like, “I don’t know how you can do your job! I’d go crazy!” or “I saw what happened. If you need a letter, here’s my card. Let me know.” It makes a world of difference. Just imagine if we went to your place of work and just disobeyed all of the decorum and rules set by your management/company? And then we told you, “Well, that’s a stupid policy!” I guess then, that would be okay? But, you know what? It won’t be long before Turkish, Asiana, Emirates, etc. flight attendants talk in the galley about you, too–if they already don’t (‘Oh, Lord! More Westerners/Americans tapping their glasses for a re-fill! Why don’t they go back to the American carriers???) Believe it or not, and I know it’s a stretch for some of you, working international flights, people do tell us that they like our service compared with home-country airlines. It’s all relative.
@Kevin,
My apologies, you are right about all of these scenarios. Though I am not a FA, I work full-time at a ticket counter and can totally attest to dealing with extremely obnoxious and/or annoying passengers. I totally hear you about having to repeat things ad-nauseam because no one seems to be listening. I’ve asked passengers if they are checking a bag, they answer “no”, we go through the whole check-in and then they snottily say “you didn’t take my bag !!” while they point to the refrigerator size thing they have with them (hiding it behind the ticket counter where I couldn’t see it in the first place).
How about the ones that just stare a hole through our heads? You know, the passengers you ask a simple question to (who understand English perfectly). “May I see your ID please?”……answer: “who me” ?? I would love to answer “no, the guy behind you” but that would only cause me to be talking to my supervisor at the end of the day for being snarky. We just have to put up with it and repeat and repeat and repeat, all the while with a big fat smile on our faces.
For those of you who think we are “burnt out” or can’t take the heat need to get out of the kitchen, etc., walk a mile in my shoes. Besides, even the best cooks get burned in the kitchen from time to time. I’ve am still learning not to “react” to quickly to stupid / dumb remarks and questions. I can’t always hold that smile that they want me to but I just (fake it) apologize repeatedly throughout the day. Sad but true.
Outrageous! Were are our rights?
And, lastly, because this thread can go on ad nauseum about united’s ‘surly’ flight attendants, how would you like it if someone came to your job, specifically, your office, and just totally disregarded your place of business’ protocol and ‘rules of the road’? What if we just parked where your designate spot was because it was closer or we didn’t want to walk as far? What if we told you that your rules were ‘stupid’ and asked you, in turn, ‘why do I have to do this or that’? And many of us have flight attendant friends that work at other (foreign) carriers. Trust me: they talk about Western/American passengers, as well. What you see as another airline ‘pampering you’, that’s not how it’s described in those carrier’s galley areas either. They can spot many of our customers from a mile away! Again, the flight attendant could’ve, perhaps, handled this better. I mean, she’s already been tarred and feathered on this blog! But, many of you have NO IDEA how flying has changed for us as well in the last 5 years, yet alone since 9/11! We are constantly being asked to do more with less. We get our galleys late, but when you step onboard, you still want and expect for your jackets to be hanged and pre-departure drinks served. We understand! We understand when we don’t have your first choice of meal. We even understand when you get your complimentary upgrade to first, but when you get there, there’s no more space for your bag to accompany you to your new seat. But, try and understand how this industry has changed for us as well. And, for too many, leaving is not an option due to financial concerns, lost pensions, and paychecks that are in excess of 10-20% less than what they were just a few years ago. Again, how many of you, regardless of airline, have taken a moment to just thank one of your crews? Sent a letter in after you’ve gotten better than average service, compared to your standards, of course? While about 97% of the people on here are complaining about United, its flight attendants, its policies and its service, that 3% on here that were at least willing to give the flight attendant a modicum of the benefit of the doubt–after all, only one photography rulebreaker was asked to leave–are what make the difference for many of us! Oftentimes, other customers see how we’re treated and threatened with being ‘written up.’ Yet, someone can see the same picture but with a different result and have told us, “I saw what happened. Here’s my card. Use it if you need to.” Or, we’ll hear, “I don’t know how you guys do it! I would lose my job if I had to deal with some of these people!” Again, if you had to tell someone at your job to do a task over and over, what would happen to that person? But, at our job, it’s okay to blatantly disregard rules/authority (that we didn’t write), and then want to scalp our heads? Welcome to flying in 2013! Safe travels, everyone! And just remember, you catch more flies with honey…Make a list of rules that you don’t like, get fellow travelers on board with you. And, take these concerns to the FAA, the TSA and the airlines. For the talkers on phones, you may get your wish soon. People organized. For those that don’t want to hear the yelling and screaming into cell phones, you get organized, too. You want to use your electronic devices while taxiing, get organized. If you want to take a picture of your television monitor before takeoff, after landing, etc., get organized. 🙂
I can’t believe the number of people siding with the FA here. First there is the patently silly idea that a single, innocuous use of the word “terrorist” is legitimate grounds for removal from a flight in the name of passenger safety. (Yeah, I’m sure that’s prevented countless hijackings and saved untold numbers of innocent lives, flight attendants identifying terrorists by noticing that they actually used the word “terrorist”, then having them removed from the flight.)
But that issue aside, the FA lied. Regardless of whether you think he should have known better than to use the word “terrorist” or that he’s being a princess or a primadonna, there is simply no excuse for the FA to make fraudulent claims about his behavior to get him off the plane. None.
If that happened to me, I would expect to be heavily compensated.
I read through the comments and I want to respond to the FAs and other airline employees complaining about passengers. First, we get it: safety is your #1 priority. And the .00000000001% when that skill is necessary, we’re sure you will do a great job. Until then, customer service is your job too. Paraphrasing here but “having to be the go-between management and passengers is hard…..” IS.YOUR.JOB. You think dealing with difficult people is unique to ONLY your job, please. Try dealing with people dying from cancer, or stupid judges, or criminal who want to kill you, or parents who think their idiot kids are geniuses, or burning buildings, or working on an assembly line everyday for fifty years, or ANY OTHER JOB!! Don’t like it, quit. There are plenty of people (roughly 8.2% of population, btw) that would love to have your job. It’s not that hard.
Now, I fly quite (not in mileage but certainly in segments) but this hiding behind safety nonsense has got to stop. For every 4 great crews I see, there is always 1 one that is just lazy. Totally *&%$ lazy. If you are considering leaving the job because the “free travel” isn’t worth it anymore then you never should have taken the job in the first place.
Talk about a sense of entitlement. You think you’re so much better than regular passengers because of your extensive travel. We all pay our fares, whether we fly 600 miles or 950,000.
I would also have demanded you get off the plane, the moment you mouthed off about terrorists.
@Kevin
“By the way, the issue would’ve never escalated to a ‘the flight attendant lied’ or ‘flight attendant’s word vs customer’s word’ if he would’ve simply said, ‘You got it!'”
–But we do understand and acknowledge that it was the FA who escalated the issue here, yes? The FA was the one who decided to manufacture a phony safety concern about his harmless use of the word “terrorist” and lie to the captain about his behavior to get him kicked off the flight.
Whatever your feelings about passenger-flight crew relations are, the FA’s behavior here was inexcusable. If it were merely a case of the FA overreacting because she had already spent a day dealing with a bunch of self-entitled pricks, that would be understandable. But false accusations of passenger misconduct are not.
How long until the entire crew are robots? 15 years?
That will be cool. Then, ladies and gentlemen, you will have all the time in the world to read your People magazine.
Matthew,
After reading your post and the comments by the intellectually challenged United defenders, I’ve never felt so good about being a former 1K. I’m impressed it only took you three days to calm down and relate your experiences with the lying FA and the gutless Captain. I’m glad I wasn’t in your shoes or I’m sure I would have left the plane in handcuffs. Please show no mercy in your fight for reparations.
UnF@!*ing believable United. Seriously!
“Taking photos is against FAA laws” – sheesh – I really should bring a current copy of the FAR/AIM book on every trip, so when I encounter this kind of ridiculous phrase from a power-tripping FA I can pull it out and say “Please show me this law.”
I have met Matthew in person, and dealt with him in business, and he is one of the last people I would think that would pull a DYKWIA. Basically what we are looking at here is a situation where he was setup to fail. Nothing could have been done to ‘defuse’ the situation once the FA decided to enforce this rule.
As to some of the people posting here about using the word ‘terrorist’ on an airplane, I would say that any feelings you have about that word are just that…your feelings. I UNDERSTAND why you have those feelings, but just like everything else in life, the way you feel and interpret things is NOT the only way, and thus unless someone says “I am a terrorist, and I will take this plane down”, you MUST use good judgement in deciding if there is an ACTUAL threat. If you feel that you cannot do that, you are in the wrong profession.
For the FA’s posting about how horrible their job is, again, you are not in the right profession. I have flown with MANY FA’s who LOVE their job, even today, in this environment. If you don’t like it any more, see about moving elsewhere in the company, or look for different employment.
Taking pictures of a plane, or a TSA checkpoint, or a bridge in NYC (all places where photography is claimed to be illegal post 9/11) is NOT going to help anyone make bombs or the like, all its going to do is add stress to EVERYONES life. The reason this country is great is because of the freedom of expression and the freedom of people to live their lives as long as it doesn’t infringe upon the freedoms of others. Don’t give into the drumbeat of constant fear, as all it will do is cost you your happiness.
Sorry for the rambling, but I felt the need to respond, as many people seem to think Matthew is to blame, when people on a power trip need to be checked, and that didn’t seem to happen here.
Thank you Joelfreak.
Maybe it’s because I’m Swiss but I really have no understanding for the many comments defending this FA. I mean, come on, if I would like to get photos to copy the plane as someone suggested, I will do using a high-res spy camera without sound or flash, so what’s the point here? And does anybody really believe that the word terrorist is a threat on its own, particularly in this scenario? If I really was a terrorist, would I really bring it up in such a way? I feel compelled to greet the crew of my next flight with a friendly smile and a “hi, i’m not a terrorist, where’s my seat?” and see what happens 😉
Dear Americans, you all shoud get back to earth again please, and lose the fear, life’s much more fun without it!
You were at fault. You are not dealing with highly trained professionals on a flight. The FAs are just one notch up from store clerks and waitresses. They do get a bit of training but most of it is safety related, not about assessing passengers’ character.
Here are the three mistakes that you made.
One you interrupted the FA during flight preparations with something that was entirely unrelated to the prep. Yes, ask for pillows, ask for coats to be hung, but no small talk and no business cards. The FAs are busy and since it is rather common for people to be bumped from flights for unruly behavior or drunkenness you can be sure that they are on the lookout for possible unruly passengers and are strictly under orders to report everything up the chain of command an let the decision be made up there.
Secondly, you used the word terrorist. This word paints a picture in people’s minds and it is not a pretty picture. To many people on an airline it is a horrifying and emotionally difficult experience to even think of terrorist possibilities. You thrust this negative and harrowing mental image onto the FA. This is like disciplining your your young daughter by telling her she is a “bad girl”. When she reaches puberty and learns what “bad girl” means, she will likely take a job as a stripper, start drinking and taking drugs, and leave home because it makes it harder to earn a living as a prostitute living at home. Even though you are a non-fiction writer you still need to become aware of the power of words and the imagery that they create in our minds.
And thirdly, you failed to differentiate yourself from the other guy. After becoming aware that someone else was being told to not take pictures you should have turned off your phone entirely (not airplane mode) and checked out the in flight magazine articles. Most likely the FA did not consciously lie about you, she just got two strangers mixed up. This happens all the time with people who are not trained to be observant. I believe it first came to the attention of the psychological community when an Australian woman was raped and described her rapist to a police artist. The picture was published, the person matching it found, and he was positively identified in person by the woman. The only problem was that he had an ironclad alibi. He was on a daily television show (I believe a live game show) which the woman watched every day. She confused herself and convinced herself that this familiar face was the rapist because the incident happened at the time it was on. But there were millions of TV viewers plus studio audience and crew who could vouch for the arrested man’s whereabouts on the live TV show at that time.
I’m not saying that other crew members were not wrong as well, but in this case you painted yourself into a corner by getting the FA confused.
THE TERRORIST POINT IS A RED HERRING.
Seriously, he was ejected because of taking photos, not because of the “T word”. The fact that he took one photo and ceased activity means that he is NOT in the wrong.
While it is common sense not to use the word “terrorist” on board or in an airport (I certainly wouldn’t), this doesn’t mean that it is logical or justified. 1000 years ago it was common sense that you could fall off the face of the earth. We seriously need to stop being so precious about this word and take our power back.
The world of robots should first annihilate these liars, starting with ones at United.
THis type of situation is not new. Here is a link to a similar story from 2009: http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/is-photography-prohibited-on-an-airplane.html
Obviously flying 950,000 miles on and keeping a blog advocating an airline is just exactly the sort of tricky deception that terrorists would do to throw people off their trail!! This was clearly a close call for United and all the people above defending United’s actions are quite sensible! Think of the children!
I am a flight attendant for a regional airline, but we do some international flying. We fly low to the ground and people love taking pictures. Sure, they shouldn’t do it during takeoff and landing, but they do anyway, and Lo and behold the plane still flies.
This kind of flight attendant behavior is essentially inexcusable and is a textbook definition of power trip. I have flown with senior mamas like this before and they act like they own the plane and the passengers on board. It’s unfair to the people who fly, who have already dealt with a colossal amount of bullshit from check-in to security to waiting to gate to boarding.
Now I am fully familiar with Douchey Business Man who thinks he is the most important passenger on earth, which is always super cute and adorable like a toddler. And yes these people are among the most irritating and entitled people on earth but, you know, oh well. But this situation seems like a reasonable person trying to explain themselves to a completely irrational nutcase.
Flight attendants absolutely have a sense of power that is often unchecked and it is awful for our passengers. Yeah, I’m sure this woman has been though as much bullshit as every other airline employee these days but she’s in the wrong and she needs to learn a lesson. And this lesson needs to be pushed out to other flight attendants too.
At our airline we were getting into some real knock-down drag-out fights over the stupid electronics-off policy. Fight attendants were going to the police any time they had to ask somebody 3 or more times to power down. We had a long sit-down during recurrent training that, hey, do your job but don’t freak out so much. Get some common sense, use the judgment that we hired you to use, and pick your battles. Basically: learn to drop it and don’t be a bitch.
I have no doubt that this woman will be punished and then have all her punishment washed away by the Union (and I’m a union rep and I know that’s just how the shitty system works). But at least she’ll get it in her head to lighten up and think twice.
And everybody … Come on my planes and take all the pictures you want. There is no federal rule about this and frankly I could give a crap. And you can say “terrorist” all day long if you want. As long as you don’t say, “I am a terrorist.” We are not the thought/word police, we are flight attendants. We get you in your seat and serve you a drink and in case something goes wrong we save your life. But Jesus we need to lighten up as a profession.
I believe it’s time for the FA to start wearing mini mike/video-camera (like some cops are now) the moment they start interacting with passengers.
Assuming your story is 100% true, you didn’t get thrown off a flight for taking against-policy pictures. In zooming out you might consider airlines in general have multiple no-tolerance policies. Perhaps that airline had a two strikes policy. You are the FA and part of your pre-flight duties is to report anomalies to the captain.
That would include you and the flytard who was arguing with the FA after he upset her. She then turns in her report.
“Two passengers taking pictures, one of them argued with me (look I’m almost crying I’m upset) the other said one of the red flag words ‘Terrorist’.”
Now the captain is upset. Maybe other captains have been demoted, fired, put on extended leave of absence without pay for lack of reporting anomalies among passengers.
In this great age of the whistle-blower – who wants to gamble their career and retirement on a poorly reported story. The captain gets his story straight with the FA, they all mis-remembered you wouldn’t stop taking pictures. No one addresses the topic of the word you said.
The Captain later makes a report reviewed by a risk assessment team whom then gives him an accommodation for “appropriate action to eliminate on board crises” or some such thing and at his next review he gets a raise or promotion.
I have a simple TMI rule that I’ve found supports me and my clients that I teach it too:
Tell people only if they need to know and if you aren’t sure, they don’t need to know. So a FA would need to know things like your seat number, food preferences and any challenges you might have before or during the flight. She doesn’t need to know you AREN’T a terrorist.
I could think of some analogies but I suspect you get the point. I acknowledge this is only my “story” but in telling my story I hope to inspire both the reflex to have greater perspective and the benefit of managing your own information.
This article focuses purely on the lie of the FA but to be clear, you were sarcastic and petty to say: “I am not a terrorist”. That is a provocative and unnecessary statement aimed at testing the patience of the FA who has to deal with belligerent passengers every day. It’s no doubt that this is what had annoyed her sufficiently to lie about your picture taking.
Not saying she was right to lie, but at least take more responsibility for your actions and stop defending that poor choice of words so early in your confrontation with the FA.
Well, reminds me of the movie Meet the Parents where Focker is pissed on plane and utters the ‘B’ word and it taken off the plane straight into FBI hands.
I guess nowadays people are paranoid of the ‘B’ word and the ‘T’ word on a plane. I for one believe had he not dropped the ‘T’ word all would have been fine!
That said UA is a pathetic airlines… this incident doesn’t change anything.
Oh and one more thing: there is no “red-flag word” list. There is no “banned word” list. There is no “never say this on a plane” list. Again: I am a flight attendant. I know this.
There IS, however, a rule to keep your ears and eyes open for security threats and to USE YOUR JUDGMENT in determining those threats. The threshold for some people is lower than others. Apparently this flight attendants threshold is the mere mention of the word. Mine is not that severe.
“Code words” and other crap people are saying on here is just wrong and factually untrue. Now, common sense would dictate that you not walk on a plane and try to push your luck saying stupid things. But I do not for the life of me consider this conversation to be in any way shape or form a threat.
Matthew, you seem remarkably calm and reasonable about this. I would be absolutely livid and losing my ever-loving shit, probably because I know — from first-hand facts and experience — that this woman is 100% in the wrong.
Good luck United to enforce this dumbe No Photo and No Video policy when Google Glass (https://plus.google.com/+projectglass/posts)
becomes commodity.
“I’m not a terrorist” “here is my business card”
lolwat…and you have almost a million miles?
Can someone explain to me the irrationality of using the word “terrorist” on board a plane? Considering that the one person that would NEVER use that word would be an actual terrorist / attacker, they would hardly be that stupid nor would they think in their own mind that they were one.
When you consider what happened on that fateful day on the 11th of September, the word “terrorism” (and we can particularly thanks Mr. George W. Bush and American media for it’s prevelance) is so associated with that event and the airline industry, that hearing it onboard a plane should not be taken as that unusual. It undoubtedly plays on the minds of people who are considering the flight ahead, so why is it unusual to hear it.
The context of a word is so important. When someone says “I am not a terrorist” why should an FA’s immediate reaction be that they ARE one or that at the very least some action should be carried out. What if a person was suspicious of another person being a potential terrorist or attacker and brought this to the attention of an FA, if they used the word “Terrorist” in a sentence would they to be repimanded and removed, while being thanked for their vigilance as they were booted off the craft.
The FA in this story seem to behave extremely erratically, maybe it wasn’t a good day for her or maybe you she needs to in fact see the world and not be so afraid.
@ #264 Union rep FA
If this would be washed away by the union, and you know that and she knows that….
why would it be a wake up call?
why should she care?
why should any unionized FA care?
can everyone, specifically the melodramatic over-reactive americans please take a step back for a second. Absolutely noone in the world underestimates the trauma and lasting effect that 9/11 had and (rightfully) will continue to have on flight staff and general public. But this case, and numerous other less significant cases that happen daily, underline that people need to first and foremost adopt a COMMON SENSE approach. This is not at the expense of safer than sorry. This is merely thinking rationally and not buying into the american fear mongering that focuses on the one in a million situation. Please, you are not the only country to experience terrorist activity nor are you the latest one, so just cop on. You dont see any of these other countries acting so hysterically on such a continuous basis. This story clearly illustrates the PREPOSTEROUS mentality of flight staff which is without logic or reason.
( I particularly found the UA staff members comments above hilarious (which tried to justify the FA’s actions))
Cool. So a “T” word is like the name of Voldemort in Harry Potter books? You Americans are so awesome and rational.
Why on earth did you say you weren’t a terrorist, that’s the stupidest thing you’ve ever said. If you kept your mouth shut your trip would’ve been smooth. It was a good thing Captain have you removed from flight. Anyone who says the word bomb or terroist at the airport or on the plane they be sorry for not saying any of those two words. Why do we have so many stupid people who makes any stupid comments about terrorist or bomb in a sentence. Example one of the passenger on Ryanair was questioned at the airport asking if he’s carrying anything and he said ” I’m not carrying a bomb with me if that’s what you were thinking” now how stupid can that be. People are so ignorant when using one of those two words seriously.
Thank you, RegionalFA, for the common sense and great attitude. Unfortunately this is rare nowadays. Common sense has long departed. Flying used to be fun, where each person you interacted with was helpful and improved your experience. Nowadays flying is stressful where each interaction is there to make your experience worse; from check-in that wants to catch you for being 1 kilo over, to security that seizes your umbrella for being a weapon, to boarding gate staff to on-board staff, etc…
How do we get back to making flying a fun experience again?
What fascinates me here is the comments as much as than the story itself.
On the use of the word “entitlement”, the blog author was entitled to travel, that is for sure. Paid for ticket, passed security, followed all stated policy including the one about taking photographs for personal journey record that did not include other passengers or staff. Absolutely entitled to fly.
What is common to most comment systems is the sense of entitlement of commenters to air their personal opinions that are not based on the facts stated, rely on making up circumstances that don’t exist, and then use their own speculation and interpretation to attack the character of the original author without any actual knowledge of the character of the author.
On the story itself, I think given the supporting evidence from others on the flight, we see here a massive over-reaction from a crew member that was not corrected by the captain. Eye witness accounts show her behaviour to be far more erratic and concerning than the passenger. The fact that airlines know so much about passengers prior to flight yet in circumstances where it might actually be useful to apply it they fail, suggests a systemic failure of the security process. That we should rely on crew to listen for “forbidden” words makes a mockery of security, rather than giving it any sense of robustness.
I think you could have handled this better, and need to understand that people have to make time sensitive decisions.
You were told to follow an instruction. You did, and the issue ended.
The second issue, that got you booted, was that you wanted to argue with the FA about following an instruction.
You baited her into a confrontation by getting her to come over and take your coat. Then, you started name dropping that corporate office knew about your blog and jawboning about not being a terrorist, and flashing a business card.
Your escalation and confrontation is what got you booted.
She neither knows, nor cares about who you are.
She gave you an instruction.
After following it, you confront and threaten her.
Should she wait til you do that again, at 36000 feet after a few cocktails?
@joe, No, actually I wanted to pacify her concern because in all my 1M+ miles of flying I have never seen a FA become so agitated about taking a picture of an airline seat. I thought by explaining why I was taking pictures, it would calm her down and help her understand why.
If only you were there, you wouldn’t be hurling accusations at my direction.
And to be clear–it was not even a valid instruction. I followed it–I took no more pictures after she told me to stop–but as others have attested to, she was making up her own rules. And the UA photo policy, which is not even legally binding, permits photos for “personal events”, which this was–my trip to Istanbul.
That along with her erratic actions made her much more of a threat than me.
Take United to small-claims. It doesn’t cost you a penny, you will win by default (let’s be serious, United isn’t gonna defend themselves in small-claims for the sum of a few hundred dollars), and you can probably tack on the extra cost of delays in some way so you might get out on top of what you paid extra.
Bla bla, get of your high horses! Just the fact you go on about your status gives me an idea of how you have talked to the FA and thankfully she got you off the flight!
Just listen to yourself Tony. I wasn’t even rude to the FA–on my word of honor–but think of the thousands of passengers each day who are rude to FAs, pilots, and airline ground staff. Should they all be forbidden from flying? And I don’t see where status plays into this. If you read what I wrote, I never mentioned my status to the FA or the pilot onboard.
There was a danger on that aircraft– the captain. How a company can put a boy in charge of a plane like that, who hasn’t matured enough to be able to speak for himself, or feel a sense of ownership and responsibility for the plane is beyond me.
Immediately threatening a non-hostile passenger with violence? And to get the police involved? (which is the same thing).
That guy’s so passive, what’s he going to do if, god forbid, the autopilot goes off? (Let alone how he would react in an emergency situation– call someone for help?)
You’re lucky. That flight didn’t go down, but it’s piloted by someone who will panic in a tough situation. It’s only a matter of time.
@Matthew, I’m sorry you had that incident, thanks for describing it in detail. I’m curious — did the notion of confronting you and the FA ever come up in conversation with the captain or GS rep? I mean: get you and FA together, ask some basic questions, and gauge the reactions of both?
@Jakub: No, sadly. We were at departure time and everyone just wanted to get the flight out. The captain had no desire to hear what I had to say and there was nothing or no one who could convince him to reconsider.
Re comment #25 FWIW:
“unauthorized […] recording of airline personnel, aircraft equipment or procedures is always prohibited”
So, he was in breach of the regulation quoted contrary to your claim. Also a picture of a seat is not a “personal event” it has no person in it.
You shouldn’t have used the word terrorist. Once you said that, it was over. That’s like saying bomb.
Well, you made the mistake of using the “t” word. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Are the actions by the captain understandable? Yes (based on the information he was probably given). You were going to Istanbul where security concerns are already going to be high. You should have been quiet after complying with the FA and not said any more. If she was uncomfortable by your conversation, then she has the responsibility to raise that concern to the captain.
Put away your axe and be smarter in the future.
I’m disappointed so many people judge you as acting entitled when it sounds like all you did was provide some context to the situation. Unless you sneered at the FA attendant when saying you’re a blogger who writes about Untied all the time and flies them enough to have earned your status, what you said is just an explanation.
Can harried flight attendants who are regularly abused by passengers lose sight that not every passenger offering such an explanation is a pompous blowhard? Absolutely. But that doesn’t make it right.
it sounds like this was a case of escalating misperceptions and maybe bad timing. I’d be interested to learn what the FA would have done if you had waited until say meal service to offer your explanation. Ask the Captain to turn the plane around?
It’s may also be a good idea to report your story here: untied.com . Made by a passenger who also had a bad experience flying Untied.
The author posted UA policy which clearly it states no still photo of their equipment… NEWS FLASH that seat in that picture that he took is their equipment.. AND blatantly violates it again by posting a picture of their policy online SMH.
Im confused. Why is it in this country when we do wrong we feel that we can somehow justify our wrong doing by the outcome of the situation. Why couldn’t he just apologize and left it alone. Well, He could have but he chose not to. NOOOOOOOO he calls the FA back over then uses the T word never-the-less.
Look I feel for the guy but i suspect now he will think twice before doing that again. Other bloggers have said more than one FA on the flight was enforcing that rule so its not really like this one FA was a Power trip.
I see it all the time on flights and it make me so sick that people think they can treat and say whatever they like to FAs.
Hey bud, saying the word ‘terrorist’ on a plane is essentially saying ‘bomb’. Not that I assume you acted of appeared to be a terrorist, but if someone using that word on a plane makes someone else uncomfortable, then lying is the least of everyone’s problem.
Terrible. This is why I simply avoid US airlines, and fly with Asian/Middle Eastern airlines only.
@Confused: UA’s photo policy is very vague and not legally enforceable, so you are incorrect here.
@carlcarlson: My question to you is why? Are there really taboo words that cannot be uttered? Did I not go through TSA screening earlier in the day?
@matthew The FA doesnt need to be pacified by you. All she needs from you is cooperation. She asked for your cooperation, stop taking photos. You did cooperate.
that should have been the end of it.
Maybe it is in hindsight, but if she was already agitated, why did you think that continuing to challenge her on your point about why you were taking photos would be the smart thing to do?
Regarding “personal events”, I guess take united to court, and they will argue, and probably win, that you are a professional, taking pictures for profit, and that what you were doing is not permitted as per policy.
Once again though, bottom line is it was your after the fact confrontation that got you in trouble, not the original photo.
Try arguing with united that you have a right to argue with one of their FA’s what is and isn’t a valid instruction on one of their planes.
You wont win that one either.
Looks like I won’t be flying UA. Will get thrown off just for saying my name 😀
Your a muppet for flying United in the First place.
I have been a flight attendant for many years. Duiring those years I have come acrossed many sick and crazy people as flight attendants who certainly dont deserve to be working. In many instances management knows everything about these people and do nothing. I too worked for Continental now United for many years. All I can say is they are going under. I am very sorry for the circus you went through. If you dont hear from the airline with a decent explantion, try basing them for the next year or two, that will make them change their mind fast.
I do hope you will sue — I can’t see any reason why an airplane cabin would not be considered a space where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, and therefore trying to prohibit photography would be a violation of constitutionally protected rights.
@ Kevin. Do us all a favor and please quit your job. Funny you should be talking about entitlement while you complain about your job and the remuneration and benefits that come with it in the face of overwhelming free market evidence that you are still overpaid for what you do. Don’t believe me? Ask the 44,000 folks who recently applied for 100 FA positions at DL. That’s a ratio of 440:1. There are nearly 500 folks that would kill to take your job if you should no longer want it. That is what is putting downward pressure on your pay and benefits….not management.
Let’s see how you’d do in a cold hard world where there is no union to protect you from the forces of the free markets. In most non-union service businesses, individuals with your attitude would never even pass their probationary period. I know you wouldn’t if you worked for me.
I totally get that you FAs deal with lots of rude and entitled passengers. And I also get that it can be extremely frustrating. But that is part of your job, just as much as it is part of a job for a customer service representative in any other industry. Using the behavior of others as an excuse to engage in the same behavior seems like a lame excuse. So somebody robbing your house makes it OK for you to rob your neighbor’s?
And before you pull the security card, allow me to say that your main day to day function is service, not security. The sooner you get that into your head, the better.
Most of you whiny FAs have NO CLUE what real life is like these days for the large majority of workers who don’t have unions represent them. Amazingly, unions are self-destructing at awe inspiring pace by pissing off the very folks that pay their members’ salaries…their customers aka the general public…by asking for outlandish pay and work rules requirements while the customers they serve couldn’t dream of similar terms. That’s why unions are losing public support even among traditionally supportive pockets of the population (ie democrats).
But I don’t blame you for being an outlier…the reality is that most people in this country these days feel entitled to the good life and have abdicated responsibility for their own actions in the process. You are just part of this movement.
This just backs up why I quit flying United over three years ago. I used to hold a 1K status and the service at SF just got so bad on so many occasions that I switched to Virgin America and have been pretty happy since. The morale at this company has continued to just get worse from what I’ve heard and this story just backs up my perception.
Post number #224 may know or maybe the FA who booted you off your flight!. As for FA Ron post #27, Seriously…..if your colleague lost a fellow crew member, family, friend etc on UA92 on 9/11….we all extend to her our sympathies. I also suggest she has not come to terms with her loss either. I’m fairly certain UA has employee assistance programs to help employees with various issues. Secondly..perhaps the effects of 9/11 are taking it’s toll on this FA…she has trust issues with passengers?, feels threatened while at work?. Perhaps she had a bad day at home, or at the airport, or…and this may very well be the cause..she is a senior FA still on reserve..was hoping not to be called out to work and and not at all pleased to be going to Istanbul!.
Sorry for your bad day with UA…I still have no idea why people fly UA..
I appreciated you sharing this incident. You right there have treated you like a cattle. United you suck. I have never and will never fly with you. Airliners like you are not welcomed. Shame on you ! I hope apologies to this passenger !
Anyone apologizing for the airline’s actions in this comment section is unworthy of US citizenship. 9/11 was no excuse and remains no excuse for the curtailing of our basic rights and freedoms in this country, and whether or not you have a choice to fly, no one should be subjected to the paranoid schizophrenic treatment that this man received on this plane. It’s RIDICULOUS. And to even suggest that using some scary trigger word warrants absolutely any and all egregious behavior on the part of authority figures is to say that the rule of law is irrelevant in our country because you’re afraid.
Get a grip and grow a spine and be Americans again, you cowards.
@Max.
Nope. As a passenger on this flight, I can assure you that this was a pmUA crew.
I am a F/A myself (in Europe) and the only time I will ask people to stop taking photos is if I actually see them with their camera or phone aiming at me. That is invasion of privacy and I am in my right to say no to a random person taking my picture! It still amazes me the amount of passengers who try to photograph or video F/A at work, however they do not post their own photos or real names themselves.
This is why so many non US citizens hate US Carriers. I fly over 100 times a year and take photographs on BA, Etihad, Cathay Pacific and Emirates and sometimes even the FA take the photo for me so whats the issue. this paranoia over the T work etc is so stupid, I lived in the Middle East for over 6 years and felt safer flying there than in the US despite its overzealous security.
You guys need to stop this siege mentality and get out and about.
I know about terrorism as i am trained in anti terrorism and come from a country which suffered it for much longer than the US.
Viktor from Switzerland says: “Dear Americans, you all shoud get back to earth again please, and lose the fear, life’s much more fun without it!”
Sali, Victor!
Indeed, along with “terrorist” and “bomb” other words Americans cannot say at airports or on planes are “American freedom” or “First Amendment” or “America is a getting better!” (The last one especially since it’s so laughably false.)
I almost got a job in Switzerland and I wish I hadn’t given up. What a great country. Mandatory firearms ownership for the men. Smart women and the women are a lot nicer (at least in the countryside!) And they’re polite. And have national pride.
Here’s the thing: With American citizens being treated like dirt in the air and in security after 9-11, it’s hard to sympathize or feel bad about 9-11 anymore. Ok? I think they should have just rebuilt the twin towers, put up a nice memorial in the square, and moved on. Instead, we’re now a bunch of fascist, ineffective crybabies that took 10 years to put 2 memorial holes in the ground.
This whole situation could have been avoided Matthew if you had simply put the camera away and wrote a letter to United after your trip. Escalating the situation by attempting to explain your actions to the flight attendant and using words like “terrorist”. Strike 2. (Be thankful you were not sitting next to a air marshal when you made that comment after taking pictures or your day would have been even more interesting! They make ZERO exceptions for comments like that.)
The final nail in your coffin, was calling the flight attendant a liar to the Captain. Strike 3. Had you been a little more humble and apologetic in the situation, things would have turned out differently… Hopefully you can chalk it up to experience and move on from it with a valuable lesson learned and no doubt a couple of free tickets from United to boot.
Dusty, are you a FAM? I think a FAM would have backed me up. I happen to know a couple of them too! 🙂
Oh my goodness Matthew, I am so sorry to hear this happened. You definitely should not let this rest, you should publicise it as much as possible and escalate it until you get a proper apology.
Something similar happened to me recently on an Air Canada flight; I was stretching at the back of an airplane and an FA went absolutely hysterical, even badmouthing me to her colleagues. In addition to being embarrassing, it made me very afraid for my safety – precisely because I knew that if it ever came down to my word against hers, I would be in deep trouble however “right” I was on the facts.
The only comment I would make (and others have made this already) is that you may have been better off taking note of the FA’s name and then making a complaint (and escalating and publicising it as you are doing now) immediately upon landing. While you are inside the aircraft, as a passenger you have very little power and are actually in a very vulnerable position. That power balance shifts back in your favour the moment you land and get off the plane.
And I agree – their no photo policy is contradictory and impractical (aside from not taking pictures of other passengers), and should be clearly stated on-board if the airline wants to rely on it to eject a passenger.
Best of luck Matthew, and thanks for sharing
Again UA. I still remember the Story “United destroy guitars” on youtube.
Lee says: “Why on earth did you say you weren’t a terrorist, that’s the stupidest thing you’ve ever said. If you kept your mouth shut your trip would’ve been smooth.”
I’m sure Matt has taken an Aeroflot trip a few times in his life. One of the funny things foreigners notice is that the FA’s rarely smile. The reason for this is that, during Soviet times, chit chat and smiling could get you arrested and a social more developed where smiling people were considered “stupid” for not knowing this so smiling became a synonym for stupidity.
When I grew up, the foreigners I knew liked to say about Americans is that despite anything else, they were friendly. In a free country, people feel free, literally, to express themselves.
So yeah, keep your mouth shut and your head down. Fly the friendly skies of United.
After reading through this, I too am appalled. I strongly encourage every single person who had less than stellar service on this flight to complain to United, most especially the FF among you. I realize that you all will most likely receive a form letter from India, but all of the issues will be logged and may finally get someone’s attention. If the FA was having a bad day, she should have stayed home and not subjected the public to her attitude. It also sounds like she should be reconsidering her line of work. As for me, based on a previous bad experience, I will not set foot on a UA plane again. The UA attitude of “we are right, you are wrong” still seems to be prevalent and confirms my decision to stay far away.
I haven’t flown United since Dave Carroll’s big blow-up. Incidents like this are what convince me to keep that policy going.
You have been treated very harshly, however you shouldn’t have called her back/speak to her the second time. You should have just thought nothing of it. She personally won’t care that you’re a blogger. She has other things on her mind, like doing her job. Why even use the T word? Everybody knows that this not an ideal thing to say in an airport/on an aircraft. That was plain stupid.
@Kevin
I agree with AAExplat. If you don’t like your job then quit. You know who has gained the sense of entitlement since 9/11? Flight attendents. You’ve taken the post-9/11 security mindset to heart, and used it as an excuse to claim you’re only there for safety and therefore all customer service can go out the window. The fact that passengers are required to follow your instructions does not make you police officers. Stop acting like you’re doing people a favor by letting them fly with you.
Everyone has difficult aspects of their job that they don’t enjoy. Waiters, train conductors, bus drivers, they all have to deal with irate and uncooperative customers. You are no different. Like I said, if you don’t like it, quit.
Too many of you FA’s think that beacuse of the remote risk of injury/death/hostage situation in your profession you deserve the same level of respect as our military personnel. Please. Cab drivers have more dangerous jobs than you do. Their risk of being killed in a robbery or collision is far higher than you being killed in a crash or act of terrorism.
Now most flight crew I come across are polite and professional. But when I come across an FA like you, Kevin, I go out of my way to make your flight as difficult and unpleasant as possible – short of something that will have me meeting a cop on the jetway upon arrival. And if I was in Matthew’s situation, I would have very loudly voiced my concern that I smell alcohol in the cockpit/galley area and I think the crew may have been drinking. Just to cause you the inconvenience of having to get off the plane and get tested to prove your innocence.
Have a nice day. 🙂
If the word “terrorist” had anything to do with the reason you were booted off the flight the captain should have used that in his explanation of why you were booted and probably you would have found a way to live with this. Now it turned into a lying FA which is absolutely unprofessional and should be reverted by UA in a satisfying manner.
I have been a captain myself and I have pax removed by the police on FA reports to me.
The captain should ask questions when the FA reports to him/her to get a picture of the situation and to form a foundation of believe. It would be nice to know what the exact words were of the FA to the captain. The no eye contact tells me the captain was not very comfortable with the whole booting situation so I am almost certain the FA didn’t use the word “terrorist” in her story to the captain since this would have been a pretty legit reason, unfortunately so, to boot someone.
I would love to see the reply to this from UA.
@Matthew – You have my utmost respect. You handled the situation with grace and I hope United makes it up to you. If you haven’t already, I would post this on Flyertalk. There are a number of high-ranking CO/UA people who monitor the MileagePlus forum and your story would get some good exposure on there. I look forward to seeing UA’s ultimate response.
The FA was a bi*ch, clearly. Unbelievable there are people defending her lies. Awful.
NBC News has picked up on this. And for the record, I don’t think I “joked” about terrorists.
http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/united-boots-blogger-flight-taking-photo-making-terrorist-comment-1C8455938
Yes, the FA is a power-drunk lying idiot.
But you missed one key part of YOUR resposibilites as a journo.
You knew your photo was prohibited under the rules.
You started out wrong. It may be a stupid policy, it may be short sighted, etc. but w/ almost 1M miles under your belt, you can’t tell us you’ve never read the inflight mag?
So if you really wanted that photo, you should have contacted the airline and received permission.
I love the clash between this story and your picture banner at the top of your blog. Be realistic and realize that banner in itself gives you an entitled look. (btw did anyone notice how the FA’s butt is in the woman face on the right, and she gives her a dirty look?)
In all seriousness try to learn from this experience. It doesn’t matter if the rules are silly. It doesn’t matter if there are things you can’t say in an airplane. The good analogy was screaming fire. Saying bomb, terrorist or whatever is just not cool if it makes anyone uncomfortable.
I hope you do not get on the no fly list. This is serious stuff. You’re 26, time to take responsibility.
I agree with you that the hostess was silly but:
Fly Turkish next time and had you connected TK to TK you would have been protected with your connection.
Please. I can just see how condescending he must have been to her. “Look, I’m nooooooooot a terrorist. Here’s my caaaard. Hang my coat and fix me a drink. I’m a blogger, dammit.”
The number of people who seem to be willing to go along with whatever they are told is stunning. I guess when any of you are arrested, stopped on the road, or even asked a question by police, you all just say, “Yes, sir” and follow orders? Matthew was just trying to clarify something, while getting a service he PAID for performed (getting his jacket hung up). Also, please lets not put the blame on unions. The MAJORITY of the FA’s and union workers in this country are well intentioned, and the union helps them bargain collectively. unfortunately, there are some outliers, as there are in ANY collective group. Matthew, have you heard back from United yet?
I suggest you sue them for any additional costs incurred because of this. There seems to be no mechanism as to correct form of capriciousness or prejudice. If a stewardess or flight crew doesn’t like you, she can have you thrown of the plane. This is completely unacceptable. In fact – if someone CAN’T make alternate arrangements, he or she would be potentially in massive problems.
@Joelfreak: I have a phone call with United later today. Hopefully the issue will be resolved smoothly.
@Professor Sabena The rainbow phenomena you describe is called the Spectre of the Broken: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brocken_spectre
I’m grateful for bloggers such as yourself. Flying (for most) isn’t a pack of gum that one buys without giving much though to at a gas station on the way home from work- it’s a legitimate expense. Choosing the right airline to get your money’s worth by trial and error isn’t realistic (again, for most). Reading about experiences like this really help narrow down the options and highlight what to avoid in order to get your money’s worth. I would be glad to hear that the Flight Attendant was reprimanded, and that she uses the experience to remind herself that she chose a career in customer service. There was no excuse for her childish actions.
Again, I appreciate the blog.
I do not understand at all the opinions of those that suggest that Matthew’s actions were in any way at fault here. This is atrocious.
Too bad this spun out of control, however I must side with the FA. The facts:
1) Your photo taking, strictly speaking, violated United’s policy. Silly in your case, but still technically true.
2) After being warned about this by the FA, you effectively argued with her by stating that you were (I paraphrase, of course) “not one of those people about whom they should be worried.” Use of the T-word added to the situation.
It was wrong that the FA felt she had to lie about the reason for your expulsion, but I think the facts are enough. I would not have felt entirely comfortable with someone on my flight who was un-compliant. Why did you feel compelled to make a point about your innocence with the FA? So that you’d prove you were not a bad person? Your behavior suggested that you could become belligerent later on.
In response to Kevin: When my wife and I flew on Austrian last September, I wrote a note to the airline praising the wonderful service and food and gave the flight number and date. When my in-laws flew on Air France and a service representative went out of his way to help, I went to the website and wrote in.
It appears now, however, that the biggest terrorists (literally) in the air appear to be disgruntled FA’s ready to take out their frustrations on anyone who looks at them the wrong way. The word “terror” is appropriate because now passengers are scared of the flight crew!
The damage done by this FA and the captain who backed her up is to undermine any pity that us passengers have for these unionized employees. When you take out the frustrations on some random guy, it makes the flying public less likely to pity the random, unionized FA. Most of us can’t even get angry at the Captain because he’s worried about not backing up his flight crew. This means that this FA hurt the reputation of other FAs first and foremost. Good going United FA! It also means that United management has a golden opportunity here: Apologize to Matt, give him some vouchers, and cut benefits for the FAs some more while elites’ anger is directed solely towards FAs.
Funny thing: even though it was considered by some to be pretentious for Matt to present his business card, mention his status and say he’s a blogger, it would have behooved the FA and the captain to pause for a moment and consider that even if he was being pretentious, those things all still do count! This wasn’t some random, drunk kid flying on a sub-economy ticket his mother bought for him. He’s a representative of a valued customer that the airlines fight to have. It makes good business sense to at least give him a few sentences to explain himself before threatening to call the police.
Glad to see NBC picked this up. I would say I can’t wait to see that FA thrown out on her arse, but as others have said, I’m sure that wonderful thing known as the union will make sure she faces zero accountability for her actions.
Saying that he was not a terrorist was the big mistake. I’m not a psychologist, but there’s something about guilty people giving clues that they’re guilty, so just saying, “I’m not a terrorist,” could be someone’s guilty conscious talking. (Not saying he’s guilty of anything, of course.) One time after an international flight into the US we were in customs when I realized I had an apple in my bag. Not wanting to violate the law, I asked customs where I could throw it away. They directed me to security who picked through every piece of luggage I had. I just wanted to throw away an apple.
Bizarre! Sorry for your troubles, so unnecessary. Something in your post stuck out – why was it important to note that the FO was female? Do you feel like she urged the captain to give you the boot?
@ctsmith73: I think they suffered from group think.
The apologists that are saying that there are good reasons for not allowing photography are completely wrong. Why can’t they can’t tell us what those reasons are? If there were any good reasons, then you wouldn’t be able to take a camera through a security checkpoint. If taking a photo is such a problem that it justifies removing a customer from an aircraft, then cameras shouldn’t ever get on the plane. Just as if Matthew was any danger to the flight whatsoever they had no business booking him on the next flight.
UAL just posted a list of words/phrases that may not be used under any circumstances during preboarding, boarding, or deplaning. It is in Hemispheres on the back of the Sudoku page, right before the audio channel listing. It specifically states that “use of any of the prohibited words (either mouthed, whispered, spoken, typed, or used in a rousing game of charades) will result in immediate consequences, i.e. the FA may actually pay attention to you.”
The “no say” list (subject to change depending on which country we are currently at war with):
Terrorist,
Terrorism,
Terror,
Terrible,
Terrier,
War,
Warfare,
Welfare,
Bomb,
Bomber,
Da bomb,
La Bamba,
Abominable,
Abomination,
Long bomb,
Bombalicious,
September,
11,
2001,
Islam,
Airplane,
Hate,
Muslim,
Suicide,
Ann Coulter,
Threatening,
“Mission accomplished”
Kill,
Martyr,
Neoconservative,
Plot,
America,
Koran,
Mohammed,
Allah,
Vegetarian,
Pork,
Democracy,
Fertilizer,
“Can I please have some water?”
Oklahoma City,
Pentagon,
Love,
Palestine,
Mosque,
World Trade Center,
Rendition,
“I can’t feel my legs because I’m in Economy”
Water,
Boarding,
United,
93,
Rush Limbaugh,
Shoe,
Middle east,
Underwear,
Performance enhancing drugs,
Boston,
Flight school,
Catholic priest,
Saudi Arabia,
Plan,
Donald Rumsfeld,
Osama Bin Laden,
Any name that sounds vaguely foreign or threatening,
Hijab or any other vaguely arabic-sounding word that could mean bomb (or chicken wing),
Photograph,
Detonate,
Southwest airlines,
Bush,
Conspiracy,
“Poor service”
Crappy airline,
“I hate United”
or George Orwell
Obey, or you better hope you look good in an orange jumpsuit.
Not being an American and living in the US myself, but regardless being a Million Miler on American, all this sound incredibly crazy!
I have taken pictures left and right of myself, my family, seats, etc in various flights and never had a single incident.
This FA has major issues and certainly overreacted over a simple matter.
I would not like to see her in a flight out of Orlando into any South American country, with hordes of families and kids taking pictures of their excursion group, the Mickey/Minie/Goofy had, etc,etc… she would have expelled the whole flight!
And by the way, did the legislation that stated that every flight should have an ununiformed police officer was revoked? If not, couldn’t he or she be called ans resolved the issue?
By now I am sure high management at United already knows about this event. I am VERY curious to know their response and also what would the actual airport police would have to say about such an incident.
I can only feel sorry for you and for all the other passengers who are victim of this kind of mistreatment…
A solution for the future is to have the “no photos” policy included in the emergency film. It should also be stated clearly, what words should NEVER be spoken while on the airlines, like “terrorist, bomb, gun, etc”. There ARE innocent passengers out there, who fly, and may accidently use these words on flights, especially young kids.
Airline travel shouldn’t be a frightful, or scary experience. Worrying about the words we speak, shouldn’t be hanging over our heads. These words should be posted, before passengers take their flight. The irony, is that a real terrorist would probably never use words like these.
I was told a very profound suggestion by a wonderful FA once, “You be nice to us, we’ll be nice to you”. Kind of goes back to the universal law of “what one sows, so shall they reap”.
Just remember in the new security state, the crew is always right, you are always wrong. Next time I suggest you buy your ticket and not fly. That way United can resell your ticket and the crew won’t have to put up with you. It’s a real shame (for you) the FA did not like you. Remember they are the law everything they say is law. Just be sure to hold United, it’s employees, corporate board, and share holders immune and protect them from prosecution and responsibility. Once you buy your ticket, any airline is done with you and they can do with you what they please.
Seriously, I hope you find grounds and open a suit against the FA on her person and/or United airlines. Consider this if a police officer cites a false law in interacting with you, you can sue them for operating under false color. If air crew are to be endowed with absolute power on an aircraft there needs to be a means for a passenger to prosecute them for acting like a corrupt cop. There needs to be some form of recourse to provide negative feedback for crew and airline officers, employers, and share holders from acting in the equiv of false color.
Good Luck.
“NBC News reached other passengers from that United flight 904 who corroborated Klint’s story.”
How about that?
@George
“Your behavior suggested that you could become belligerent later on.”
Yes! Let’s punish anyone and everyone who isn’t belligerent, but they very well could be (but only if the conditions are just right- air temperature is 73 F, they had blueberry oatmeal for breakfast, and the moon is 3/4 full on a cloudy night in October).
Good point. We need more people like you in charge.
Absurd.
The FA is definitely in the wrong here for lying. However, people need to see this from the bigger picture. The issue may not be about photography or the FA lying at all. It’s probably the fact that Matt here was delaying the flight by arguing. From the crew’s POV, he could be delaying it for some reason. Who knows? Safety is paramount and no chance should be taken. Anyone can spin off a reason for taking the photos. The crew cannot predict what can happen but can only minimise risk. Hope everyone continues to remain vigilant. A little discomfort for safety is a well needed trade off.
All the Captain had to do was to look at your camera which showed you told the truth.
This is the precise reason that I avoid US airlines like a plague. Currently ANY, i seriously mean ANY airline has better customer svc that US airlines (this includes Air Canada as well). Make no mistake, security and safety is important, however, does that mean every other aspect is irrelevant? I almost get the feeling of being treated as sub-human and Airlines are doing us a favour transporting us.
As for domestic, I stick to Virgin America and if forced prefer SouthWest to those destinations Virgin doesnt fly.
Besides United, AA and Delta are no better. Different livery but same issues.
Those who dont believe me try one of these airlines: Virgin Atlantic, Singapore Airlines (i park all my miles there now), Qatar Airways.
Lets bring bay the joy of flying, its doesnt have to be this way.
A business card is a weak form of ID. I can print up a collection of business cards for every occasion. I would probably encourage the airlines to provide an ID card similar to media credentials at arena events.
@George
“Your behavior suggested that you could become belligerent later on.”
Yes! Let’s punish anyone and everyone who isn’t belligerent, but they very well could be (but only if the conditions are just right- air temperature is 73 F, they had blueberry oatmeal for breakfast, and the moon is 3/4 full on a cloudy night in October).
Good point. We need more people with that rational way of thinking in charge.
I think the only mistake you made was mentioning the word, “terrorist.” Your actions could have been extremely benign up until that point (heck, you may have even conducted CPR and saved someone’s life on that flight 5 minutes prior) but the SECOND you utter words such as, “bomb” or “terrorist,” it’s game over. The FA now has the collateral to remove you from their aircraft and even if you are innocent and compliant, you don’t stand a fighting chance.
Regardless, the points you bring up are 100% valid and true. Honestly speaking, the FA probably felt EXTREME remorse for how she reacted in this situation once it all transpired. Not only was she unethical (and knew this based on her body language), but downright lazy as well, and it was obvious to everyone. She probably saw an opportunity to make her job easier that day by having one less customer to serve, and so acted upon a knee-jerk reaction. It doesn’t matter if she embellished the story to say that you continued taking pictures (even though you claimed that was a lie) because she knew she had a more compelling reason to boot you.
At the end of the day, I do hope you receive full compensation for your grievances. Completely unacceptable and it also has angered me as a UA elite myself. This company continues to trend on a downward spiral by the day, and, I hate to say this but, the pmCO people/culture are truly the ones that are tainting the airline and need to just get over it.
Thanks for submitting this to us; as a blogger, photographer and trip-reporter myself, I can understand that it takes major guts to post an unpleasant story like this, but I am sure there is a silver lining. And hey, now I have a new blog to read 🙂
The fact that American citizens can be so afraid of the word “Terrorist” is actually so hilarious that I expect a South Park or Family Guy episode soon. Do you really think that a “real” terrorist will actually say: “wait, no, I’m not a terrorist”. This is the typical american culture at its best… and I live in San Francisco, a relatively liberal city.
This is so out of order sorry to hear what happened. This goes to show how stupid these people are and why I refuse to travel with any Airlines from the United States as a traveler myself. The staff on them are so artificial once when I flew American asked for something waited ages so I had to ask again shows how they lack communication with passengers. For me it either Virgin Atlantic, Emirates or BA anyday
I can actually totally understand you. I can see myself responding in exactly the same way. After that first interaction, I would have had to explain myself too as I would have to interact with the FA fo the rest of my flight and don’t want her to have a wrong impression of me. Even joking about terrorists is something I would have done without thinking in that situation. Obviously you don’t do it during security screening, but once inside the plane the atmosphere is usually more laid-back and I can see myself saying somethong like that, when not acitvely thinking about not doing so.
I wish you all the best in clearing up this situation, as it could have happened to me too, although I do try to avoid American carriers whereever possible, which is thankfully easy enough as a European.
Matthew, I hope you read my comments!? I found the link to this report on http://www.airliners.net .
I’m an avid, lifelong, aviation enthusiast / spotter / photographer – now age 63. As a Mileage Plus ( M P ) member, I’ve flown UA numerous times! RARELY have I had an itinerary or flight segment when UA HASN’T afflicted me with a SIGNIFICANT ” service ” related issue!!! However, I’ve endured / tolerated UA’s CONTINUING crap ” service ” for these two reasons:
( 1 ) Whenever UA DOES afflict me … I document all applicable details … and later write to their Customer Relations Department; detailing my experience(s) of their latest fiasco / SNAFU. ( It’s now in Houston ). UA has always compensated me for their SNAFU; issuing Travel Certificates to me, for use on future travel on UA. Presently I hold two such certificates: one for $300 and another for $100.
( 2 ) As you know, UA offers Ch 9 ATC audio. The ONLY airline that does, to my knowledge. As I’m plane crazy, it’s the only IFE ( aside from the Air Map ) that I want to access when flying!
If you write to Jeff Smisek, c/o Customer Relations, point out to him the media coverage on the recent debut of their 7-LATE-7 Screamliner. For example, “Airways” magazine – and other aviation mags – had reports and CABIN PHOTOS – one of which is of HIMSELF and another of a FA! I know as I’ve purchased and read such mags! Furthermore, other photos of UA cabins – and MANY other global airlines – can be found on aviation enthusiasts web sites; including airliners.net; planepictures.net and jetphotos.net
If Uncle Scam approves the merger of AA and US, we’ll have ONLY three so-called ” Legacy ” carriers remaining! Our flight options will be even FEWER! My rationale is: FIGHT or FLIGHT! Elevate your FEEDBACK to UA ” managers “! However, I’ve recently booked an International MP Award Trip; flying Star Alliance partners on four of my five segments. The only one on UA will be ( I HOPE!? ) on the 7-LATE-7 – my first!!! That is, if Boeing can soon ” fix ” the battery related faults!? However, on THIS trip, I’m avoiding UA as much as I can!
Fianlly, I always have a Window Seat … which allows me to aim / use my camera, as desired!
“Legacy UA flight crew”. Kinda sums it all up right there, doesn’t it? I miss Continental…
Yikes–headed to Istanbul on that flight, in business class, next month. I hope I get a different crew as I fully intend to take photos of my family AND the seats. Last year on an Ex-Con lead business class flight to Rome, pilots had my kids in the cockpit with their hats on so I could get really good photos. No one stopped us taking photos of lie-flat seats either. Could be because my 8 year old was gushing over the ‘pod seats.’ No deemed ‘risk’ there…
The bottom line is, you are STUPID to show any true loyalty to any airline company. Aside from the accrual of frequent flyer miles, there is no real benefit. They are loyal to nobody, and provide customer service that is just a bit above reprehensible. Expect to be mistreated, it’s the norm in this industry.
The bottom line is, you are STUPID to show any true loyalty to any airline company. Aside from the accrual of frequent flyer miles, there is no real benefit. They are loyal to nobody, and provide customer service that is just a bit above reprehensible. Expect to be mistreated, it’s the norm in this industry.
The bottom line is, you are STUPID to show any true loyalty to any airline company. Aside from the accrual of frequent flyer miles, there is no real benefit. They are loyal to nobody, and provide customer service that is just a bit above reprehensible. Expect to be mistreated, it’s the norm in this industry.
“Indeed, the terrorists have won when 11.5 years after the attacks U.S. citizens are scared of a camera onboard an airplane.”
The Bush administration did everything in its power to reinforce the state of terror, judging that to be in its political interest. The Obama administration has not had the courage to challenge that established mindset. As a result, both administrations have been the best collaborators the terrorists could have asked for; we have done ourselves far more damage than they could ever do.
So, yes, the terrorists won. And they continue to win every time we let unreasonable fears dictate our actions.
I’m ashamed of my countrymen for having let ourselves be stampeded into this situation.
Disgusting, should have flown a real airline like Singapore LOL
I thought this would be a no-brainer, but here’s a handy rule of thumb: Things you’d be foolish to every say on any plane: “bomb”, “terrorist”, and “Your FA is lying!”.
Strike one: You argued with the FA about a policy (picture taking) that she was clearly obligated professionally to enforce.
Strike 2) You used an inflammatory word, that she may have also been obligated to report.
Strike 3.) You tried to convince the captain the FA was “lying”. Ouch. When a pilot has to decide between the word of his crew and a stranger, you’ve set yourself up to automatically fail. If you’ve flown so much, shouldn’t you know better?…. And you’re a “writer” right? Learn some finesse with your words– graciousness works so much better than self-righteousness.
Here’s the thing about words that should be illegal/unsaid at airports/on airplanes… seven years ago my husband and I took in a dog. At the time, we decided to let him keep his name, since he knew it and responded to it and adjusting to a new family was probably going to be taxing enough on him without suddenly being called a word he didn’t recognize. A few months later we needed to fly with our dog, and it was only when standing at the check-in counter with him and his kennel that we realized we might be about to have a problem. You see, his name was a word that should not be uttered in airports lest security descend upon you (“Gunn” – not as bad as “terrorist,” sure, but something that could make people look at you sideways and draw lots of extra scrutiny). Now we were faced with the dilemma of lying about his name and risking him not responding should he somehow get loose before we were reunited or to try to explain this. We chose the latter, which led to a rather funny conversation with the woman at the check-in counter and soon all three of us moved on to our destination and he’s flown with that name ever since without incident. What I’m getting at here is context is everything, and leaping to conclusions without context is useless to all parties involved. Given the wrong, jumpy FA, we could have been removed from any of our flights for something as innocuous as wondering ho