A coalition of unions representing pilots, flight attendants, and mechanics at United Airlines curiously chose to use the announcement of a massive new aircraft order with Boeing this week to mock United.
Unions Representing United Airlines Employee Groups Mock Boeing Aircraft Order
As United CEO Scott Kirby stood onstage wtih Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun in Charleston early this week to announce a deal for up to 300 new aircraft, the unions representing a number of employee groups at United Airlines released a statement of their own:
“Money for new planes, money for supersonic jets without engines, money for yet-to-be-approved electric taxis. None of these planes will fly without the people of United Airlines.
We recognize the potential value in this announcement for working people with new aircraft manufactured in the U.S., but the proof is in the pudding with our contract negotiations. It’s about the kind of jobs this creates at United Airlines and the jobs that support its operation.
It’s time United Airlines management get serious at the negotiating table to reach contracts that reflect the value of the work of the people who make United fly.”
Every day that I cover this industry, I better understand the way unions operate: namely, that these are organizations that rely upon grievance for self-perpetuation. Therefore, no news can be good news. Because if employees think that a company is taking care of its employees or investing in their future, there is less of a felt need for unions and the dues that come out of paychecks each month.
Think about it: pilots will be needed to fly these 300 new jets. Flight attendants will be needed onboard. Mechanics and gate agents and baggage handlers will be needed on the ground. New planes will lead new to new routes and more customers, which will require more reservations agents and ticket counter staff.
This is good news. There is no downside to United ordering new aircraft, especially when it could have held out a bit longer and used some or much of that money for stock buybacks or executive slush funds. Unions should give credit where credit is due, namely credit to Kirby and his team for having the strategic vision and the dogged determination to make United Airlines the flag carrier of the United States and continue to grow (unlike, say, in the Smisek years that were marked by haphazard retreat on key routes and a lack of strategic vision).
Growing the United fleet and investing in human capital are not mutually exclusive. On the contrary, they are directly related. We can lament the lackluster soft product all day long on United, but United had the vision not to retire aircraft during the pandemic and has invested in its future through both horizontal and vertical integration. Beyond that, we see a level of discipline that I have not witnessed in the 18 years I have covered the industry and visionary leadership that is already paying dividends.
Unions want better contacts now. They see a recession coming and know that their bargaining power now is particularly strong. In that sense, I cannot blame them for wanting to strike while the iron is hot. Yet through silly tactics like pilots disrespectfully turning their back on Kirby in Houston last week, they show how out of touch they really are. Pilots and flight attendants are very well compensated for the work they do and frankly, some of the obscene raises we have seen lately (like 34% at Delta) create unrealistic expectations, fuel inflation, and will create a bubble that at one point will burst. There are thousands of pilots in the pipeline and I look forward to the day when there is healthier competition not just to fill jobs, but for wages.
The Company has turned its back on Pilots, today we did the same. 4 Years Past Due! @united@ALPAPilots, @IAMDistrict141 , @afacwa , @iamairtransport#WeAreALPA #unitedpilots #unionstrong #alpapilots #1U #ContractFirstUnitedNext #avgeeks #united #pilot #union pic.twitter.com/XAXfJnNYk8
— United Airlines Pilots (@UnitedPilots) December 8, 2022
CONCLUSION
Unions are going to do what unions always do. But this should have been a great week for United and all of its employees. Instead, the unions representing various employee groups chose to mock. That’s not constructive toward creating the sort of environment that will lead to flourishing for all sides. Shame on the unions for their selfish action in this respect. They will get most of what they want anyway…this is all theatrics.
image: @UnitedPilots / Twitter
I know that you will be tossed into the bonfire for this blog entry, but on behalf of the vast majority of your readers, thank you for stating what we think as well.
Four years past due. Did he turn his back on the pilots? He should have led with an industry leading contract.
An old boss used to say: “Unions are the cancer of Corporate America.”
Your old boss sounds like a prick. I’m not in a union but I can at least see the value of them. Corporations have all the advantages, average workers should at least have someone on their side
Lol. Not exactly how I would have phrased it but accurate nonetheless..
Yeah, that’s why he was the boss and not an employee. Employees cannot afford to be that dickish.
Oh, like your weekends? Thank a union. Without a union workers were forced to work 7 days a week. I love you selfish people. You’ll take all the benefits and give none of the compliments.
“Forced to work 7 days a week…” – a bit much, wouldn’t you say? Minimum rest periods are not simply union inventions.
A bit much for sure but hyperbole aside, unions have helped the living standard for most Americans over the last century and a half. The decline in union membership and lowered standards of living for the average American are not just coincidence. We don’t need unions everywhere but there’s a reason that so many rich people hate them – they force at least a little of the wealth from the rich to the working class. That drives rich people frantic, which is ironic because they’re already rich and need the money less.
Pilot contract is 4 years past due. It’s past time to recognize and reward the pilots for their shared sacrifices.
Unions bargained to attain a 40 hour work week, weekends and overtime. It’s not “a bit much”.
Why is it that when people cite the value of a union to employees, they never cite an example more recent than 80 years ago?
Unions look after the senior dues paying members in the very short term. Not those hired tomorrow. Not retirees. Not the employees as a whole or in the long term. This is a systemic issue in the US.
People say that all the time, but it’s not true.
The 40-hour week and all sorts of labor oriented laws were designed to weaken unions, not because of them, and unions were not enthusiastic about them. Unions wanted workers to get things by joining a union, paying dues, and adding to their strength. If workers could get the most broadly desired things essentially for free, there would be no reason to join union.
That has been the Delta Airlines strategy all along. Give the workers the the benefits that are most desired and not the ones that the average rank and file doesn’t think about or generally care about and they won’t see the point in joining a union and making the sacrifices union members must make to get things.
Why join a union, pay dues, and possibly go on strike if you already have the 40-hour week?
Delta employees benefit from parallel benefits. Unions in the industry bargain for a base line of benefits. Non Union employers base their compensation packages on this base line. It is an indirect benefit.
Your boss sounds like an idiot.
First rule of labor law: Companies usually get the unions they deserve. I’ve seen that many times over many years.
Bingo!
You’re wrong: unions don’t suck; United’s unions suck. That’s a reflection on the airline. Oscar was the only CEO who actually treated union members well at United and they responded well as a result. Kirby has treated them poorly and they respond appropriately as well.
How has Kirby treated them poorly?
Kirby keeps making cuts, which is great for a #2 in a big company while the CEO figures ways to consistently increase value for and loyalty from customers. Unfortunately, Kirby is in the left seat. That means that whenever Kirby actually does want to improve things for flyers he dumps the additional work on the front line personnel. You’ve written about this enough times that I’ll avoid specifics here but telling employees to improve things strictly through their effort rather than yours is a poor ongoing business philosophy.
Kirby doesn’t exactly have a pristine history with his employees either. Remember the scope clause fights with the pilots? Did that engender much goodwill? Or how about the bonuses he took from regular employees? Can you name me some ways that he has materially improved the job and/or compensation for any group – except possibly pilots on pay, and that was because of a union – for regular employees during his tenure? Maybe I’m wrong, but if so I’d like some instances cited where Kirby basically did the right thing for his people even when it didn’t make direct financial sense.
I never understood the desire of unions to want to see the company fail or worse be the ones who push it to failure. It always seems counterproductive to me.
Does anyone here think, theatrics or not, that Kirby deserves that respect? That same Kirby whose number one goal is NOT to improve UA service, but to suck up to the White House, especially around the time it jumped the gun on “vaccine mandates or leave”, when the other airlines did not?
(And before you say hurrr durr anti-vax, I’m 3x vaxxed so you can throw that non-sequitur out of the window)
I did not support the vaccine mandate and came out against it on the blog at the time. Still, the sucking up to the White House is not blind partisanship but recognizing the strategic wisdom in cooperating with the entity that has great influence in regulating carriers. It is self-preservation.
“recognizing the strategic wisdom in cooperating with the entity that has great influence in regulating carriers” is “sucking up” but with more words. Maybe this is just a *A focused blog so Kirby’s suck-ups are magnified but I don’t see Bastian or even Doug Parker do the same amount of groveling that Kirby does.
I hope it pays off for them. Maybe Kirby should ask LH on how to be a 6-star Airline while they’re at it.
Jan, tell me, how old are you?? You speak with such bravado, arrogance and authoritarianism than for one moment, just for one moment, you would even seem authentic!! However, you could’ve fooled me. Politics are politics. Personal relations and politics go together. What Kirby is doing, is just that. No, he’s not sucking anyone’s dick. In fact, tell me how many other airline CEO’s got invited to the most coveted dinner invitation in America. What he is Jan, is smart and bold. Well connected and politically savvy. That’s how you get things done. Not by shutting yourself down at your c suite pretending you’re hot stuff and buying second hand airplane shit because you can’t figure out on how to pay for brand new ones. Or, I don’t know, by inheriting a company from a would be alcoholic only to lament yourself on the disastrous state of your company’s balance sheet to the point you can’t afford to take any risk, let alone order a new sub fleet of brand new airplanes. No Jan, it’s not always cause and effect, black or white. With time, as you gain a little bit of wisdom and, if you add to that some experience, you’ll get where I’m coming from today. Whatever you might think, that douchey guy you so much dislike is a true leader, not a follower. And guess what’, he will succeed. He is building/ creating a mammoth of an airline company all form scratch. With balls and vision, trust me, it doesn’t get any more legit than that.
Could the vaccine mandate come back to haunt him though? With a crazy amount of “died suddenly” in the past two years, he needs his workforce healthy and detoxed. You need the people first, unless AI is the plan there. Are there robot FA’s coming sooner than we think? Overall, You and Matthew and others often make good points about United and Kirby, and I can recognize those. However, if vaccine health concerns become a larger issue down the line — “if you took the untested mRNA cocktail in 2020, you may be eligible for compensation” — is United going to be shielded from those types of losses? Going for better than great means considering all facets of past, present, and future.
And putting civil liberties, medical freedom, and public health aside for a moment, we can’t even begin to consider Kirby a “true leader” until something is done about the food and the ugly casserole dishes. ASAP.
You took my take personally, didn’t you?
Like I said, I hope that plan works out for UA. Patriotism and America, numba one “Flag carrier” airline and all that stuff. Then maybe Kirby can run for President. lol.
While we’re at it,
https://www.forbes.com/lists/worlds-best-employers/?sh=6892f6fc1e0c
Delta at #6 (out of literally all the companies in the world)
United: #591.
@ECH… no the vaccine mandate is not going to come back to haunt him or anyone that took it. Take off your tinfoil hat. I’ve had 4 doses and I’ll be fine. And as a bonus my 5G reception is fantastic.
“Could the vaccine mandate come back to haunt him though?”
No/
However, if vaccine health concerns become a larger issue down the line — “if you took the untested mRNA cocktail in 2020, you may be eligible for compensation” — is United going to be shielded from those types of losses?”
Probably no concerns.
Did you get paid to write these responses?
Oh, those pilots have been flying planes for free all these years.? They are highly qualified leeches. And want more blood out of the consumer, now they are done feasting on government subsidies.
And only a union toadie will have the entitlement to say that pilots got United through the pandemic. In a normal industry, half of them would get fired once custom dried up,
It ain’t the pilots leeching money from the consumers. More likely upper management appeasing shareholders and trying to score better salaries and bonuses for themselves.
Against unions. Against the vaccine mandate. I get it you’re a republican!!!! LOL
Flying Delta and United you would see why service and attitude is so much better on Delta (non-adversarial)then on United (adversarial).
United’s new planes plus grumpy employees equals no net gain.
Your anti- union bias is showing. Henry Ford would have loved you.
Flight attendants are compensated well? 2,400 a month for a new hire starting out before taxes are taken out is nothing to write home about especially living somewhere like Boston, New York, San Francisco, Washington DC, etc . Plus not getting paid for boarding. How about you close that mouth and don’t speak on things you have no idea about?
How about you acknowledge that FAs receive a bounty of benefits that are highly valuable like flight benefits on United and 40+ partners, matching retirement compensation, healthcare, and highly flexible work hours? How about you acknowledge that FAs who find cost of living too high in a city are welcome to commute on the company dime? How about you acknowledge that FAs who stick with it, just like in many other large companies, eventually earn very handsome salaries (and unlike with other companies, your job duties remain remarkably consistent over time despite the increase in pay)? How about you acknowledge that there is a reason that in terms of the number of applications versus the number of openings, it is more difficult for a student to get into Harvard than for that student to become a U.S. legacy carrier flight attendant? There’s a huge imbalance between the supply and demand for flight attendants and FAs should be thankful for the pay they do receive. So no, I won’t close my mouth and have a pretty clear perspective on this matter.
Oh please you’re simply another entitled condescending jerk. Telling us we are compensated well when we are infact not starting out and that is my point. When they start paying flight attendants for boarding then we can talk seriously, but you have no right to speak for an entire flight attendant group and tell us we make enough money to live on initially. We deserve better pay. Again you’re simply an entitled privileged jerk! The world doesn’t need any more of you!
When you lose the argument, you resort to ad hominem attacks. Nice.
If the pay isn’t sufficient, seek another line of work. Blame your union for the lack of pay during boarding. Delta now pays its flight attendants during that time.
For the win, you should say something to her about how KCM needs to be taken away from flight attendants.
I don’t want to work for Delta and that brainwashed anti union group.
Oh, the irony.
You should tell Sara Nelson to f off and head on over to DL. I heard they get the benefits you want without having to pay Sara Nelson. Also, do most FA’s in your line of work feel the same way? Sounds like this attitude is affecting service.
I think you just explained the value of a union perfectly.
Flight Benefits have dwindle down to nothing. It is Space Available travel, so it is not a guaranteed benefit. Want to talk about commuting, I did it for 25 years. Again SA and would sometimes go the night before because flights are so packed. Why commute? Take YOUR pick – The company closes a base after you have bought a house, etc. Your spouse is in the military and they obviously can not commute. Lastly, many Base cities are crazy expensive. NYC, ORD, SFO, BOS Unless someone is from these big cities, most people can’t afford or have any desire to live in some of these cities. You really need to get over yourself. A Blogger is pretty much the equivalent of a High School newspaper journalist,
Its United FAs like yourself why I (and my wallet) have proudly not set foot aboard a United aircraft in almost 13 years.
No, you have zero perspective. If you have never don’t the job you are nothing but a spectator. Walk a mile or a couple decades in the shoes of the professionals on those aircraft and ONLY THEN do you have the perspective, and right, to speak to it and what level of compensation is fair. But for today you are an outsider, nothing more.
This attitude that your customers are ‘outsiders’ is why US carriers like United have such poor reputations for service. Your customers are why the airline exists, and if the flight attendants responding to this thread treat their customers half as badly as their words here suggest they do, it’s no wonder the airline industry in this country continues to struggle.
Flying in this US is miserable in large part because nasty, entitled, selfish, corner-cutting cabin crews make it such a hateful experience. Thanks for bringing that point to life in this thread.
I believe you were one of my three grumpy passengers. HA! Merry Christmas Mr S.
What a friendly, constructive comment! A great example of the mindset and attitude that’s made flight attendants at US carriers such a shining example to the rest of the world. Their commitment to high-quality, professional customer service is, after all, second to none – anyone who’s ever watched a United or American longhaul cabin crew walk through a foreign airport can really feel the pride. Those flapping ID badges, that uncombed hair, those wrinkled uniforms and smacking gum – no other airlines’ crews can touch it.
Combined with their peerless customer-service orientation (that readers of this blog feel strongly every time they fly with a US airline) this is a group deserving of wages that match the premium service they provide so consistently and selflessly. Kudos to you for making that point so well!
Chapeau Sir, Chapeau !! Couldn’t have said it better myself!!
THEATRICS, totally THEATRICS.
Matthew is right, they will get most if not everything they want.
Must be election time in the MEC.
Pilots at United have been waiting on a contract for four years! They got the company through the pandemic by drastically cutting their hours and therefore their pay. It’s time United make good and give them the contract they deserve!
Unions are almost the primary reason we pay obscene fares nowadays just to travel in basic coach seats that are shrinking all th time. The outcome of this is customers are always on the losing end.
Obscene fares? First off, adjusted for inflation, you’re paying significantly less than you were 20 years ago, and exponentially less than 40 years ago. Secondly, have you looked at a bus or train fare lately? Dollars per mile, you’re getting a bargain on an airplane. If you’re too cheap to travel by airplane, then I encourage you to explore the other modes of transportation available to you. Good luck with that.
Pure gold. Excellent post, Matthew. And of course the entitled FA’s wearing ugly clogs and miserable expressions will try to tell you otherwise here. I am sure though that there are also many who will agree with you completely and can’t stand the legions of the entitled who try and paint their profession as being so horribly difficult and under appreciated.
On the same note, let’s not forget the pilots, who are equally as entitled and spoiled on U.S. carriers. As an example, why 1A on UA has to be reserved for pilot crew rest. Really? One of the most coveted seats in J? Make a crew rest seat in the galley area with a curtain. Why does UA have to avoid selling that seat to please coddled pilots, especially senior ones flying Intl. routes? Unions. Contracts. BS.
Are there bad FA’s and those who complain and who don’t appreciate their jobs? Obviously. but there are also many who take pride in their work. There are also those who would love to be a part of the aviation industry, but can’t, due to the starting wages being so dismal. Some of us here, and I think you also, iirc, have discussed this before: the 0-5 year pay is not doable for at least some talented applicants — both FA’s and pilots. Mainline has it slightly better but regionals are truly poverty level. A fair wage for entry into the industry — even ATC — would be nice. For FA’s the ~80 hour reserve guarantee is pennies now, and it was before this administration’s economy and inflation. That is a barrier to entry for some applicants. Just because crash pads have always been a thing, doesn’t mean they should be, especially for those who are working hard enough and giving it their all, as some new hires do.
I’m quite interested that this comment comes from you, ECH. You seem to be pretty right of center on almost every issue and certainly anti-Biden, anti-woke, anti-LGBTQ+ etc…but here you are making a very leftist argument about the need for a “fair” wage. I’m not disagreeing with you, but curious how you reconcile your worldview in this respect.
As a gay person, I wouldn’t say I am anti-LGTBQ+. Yes, I am certainly concerned about the sexualization, indoctrination and medicalization of children, which is coming from so many angles, including the Biden administration and the far too liberal and loud trans community. I am a registered independent and certainly not a Republican or Democrat. I come from a blue state that has 40%+ registered independents. I am a free thinker who doesn’t fall into the left and right paradigm. The two party system is a joke and it’s unfortunate we don’t have better candidates considering the talent out there. Even Kirby would be better than Biden — vaccine mandate aside. Anyway, the FA payscale is on page 31 here: https://unitedafa.org/docs/contract/jcba-final.pdf. 80 hour monthly guarantee * $26.68 per hour = $2134.40 per month gross. Not great. There’s a huge variation between first year and topped out pay. I think they could make that a little more equitable considering the $ the airlines have. Also, aviation is physically demanding. Overall, I don’t have all the answers — I’m not saying fast food workers deserve $15, either., I simply think companies like United, who are profiting quite handsomely, can take care of their newer employees a little better. I don’t find that to be a partisan issue personally.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Great comment.
YW — have a great weekend ahead. Safe travels!
“Yes, I am certainly concerned about the sexualization, indoctrination and medicalization of children, which is coming from so many angles, including the Biden administration and the far too liberal and loud trans community.”
Oh geez not that homophobic gay-people-are-grooming-kids nonsense.
hardly nonsense and those of us whose eyes are open see it daily https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lgbtq-coalition-gays-against-groomers-vows-to-fight-against-radical-activists/ar-AAZ2Spw
Hopefully you realize as a supposed gay person that after the Republicans are done with the trans community they are coming for you next. Don’t get too cozy with them and their antics
at the same time the gay community needs a reality check as they are basically out of control overall. They have no chill. They’ve gone too far left off the deep end. The pendulum needs to swing back. Marriage equality was one thing. Now it’s beyond.
…those who can…DO (actually work for an airline)…THOSE WHO CAN’T…make stupid observations…right Mr. Klimt? Get relevant.
It’s Klint. Klimt was the artist.
Matthew I question if you are purposely disingenuous in your article or honestly don’t know much about the subject you’re writing about? 1. New airplanes doesn’t guarantee in increase in an airlines fleet size. Even Kirby acknowledges some of these aircraft will be replacing aging 767s and 777s. Orders doesn’t equal deliveries or United would be flying the A350. 2. If you spread Delta’s pay-raises over the last 20 years what is the annual increase? You undoubtably realize that at the end of every pilot contract there follows years of no pay-raises so yes when a new contract is negotiated the raises seem large but over the course of a 30 year career does the pilot even average inflation? 3. How do Flight Attendants commute on “the company dime”? Are you talking about Space Available travel? How easy do you think it is for a new hire flight attendant to SA into EWR or SFO? Who do you think pays for their lodging while they are in EWR or SFO? Maybe you should listen to a few flight attendants and bully them a little less.
I firmly believe the author of this post is paid by United in some way shape or form. How about calling one of the unions and asking for their view point? Some of those 200 thousand miles flown came your way for writing a nice fluff piece. Can you without an attack firmly say that you have received no compensation for writing this or any other articles on behalf of the airline in question?
No compensation from United. I am not on the payroll nor do I receive any benefit from UA for writing this story. I’ve written literally hundreds of pieces on UA over the years…I don’t always attack unions, but I felt the actions were highly disrespectful and counterproductive here.
It’s pretty crazy that you are nearing 10k articles written, if that # is accurate when clicking your name.
I’m not sure he is paid by United, but he does seem very anti-union. Granted, I don’t see what they did was disrespectful either.
Why spread Delta’s raise over 20 years? Has Delta given no raises in 20 years? Why do unions constantly do violence to the truth with such impunity?
They must be high over their Teamster family recently screwing the American taxpayer out of a few billions, and feel emboldened to keep spouting nonsense while pulling on their political levers. But we see through you, mobsters. You may still rob us, but will no longer fool us.
I don’t think it was the unions screwing the taxpayer (try upper management instead).
Why such disdain for the rank and file? They have a valid point. While I agree that they could have used a more diplomatic approach than turning their backs on the CEO, their point still remains. Their compensation has not remained commensurate with the rate of inflation. UA spending billions on new planes without at least addressing employee compensation is just a bad look.
I always enjoy reading these articles but so many times get a headache when I get to the comment section. My husband questions why I even bother. He’s read a few and just laughed. Bully, as another commenter stated, is how a handful of your commenters can be described towards F/As. I agree with some of what is said. I’m working with a grumpy one right now but I also just got off a long haul flight with 3 grumpy passengers. Do you all ever actually look around at your own colleagues and think about how they act onboard airplanes? I think not. I don’t care what profession pays your bills, there are bad apples in every one. Now, I’m going to enjoy my 24 hour layover in a beautiful country and then when I’m back onboard setting up the food service for my long jaunt back home, I’ll be sure and think about all the lovely people in the above comments that had such nice things to say. Enjoy your flight!
Really well said Matthew. The union is a joke at times, but Scott is a smart guy and has a very smart management team in place so I am sure they will figure it out.
I’m an IAD based FA for United, and continue to be appalled by the AFA. The AFA has never helped me, or represented me, EVER, in my years with the company. They only help the most senior members, and themselves. I’m even more appalled by what’s currently going on here in IAD. The former IAD union president got caught retaliating, and still gets to keep her union job even though she’s been fired from the company. The union helps their own, and no one else. The 787 order is wonderful news, and it’s such a shame that the union won’t admit it. Having a union in today’s modern work environment is archaic and nothing but toxic.
Your article shows how vert little you know about the industry. What in idiotic and unintelligent opinion. I suppose you’d like all of us to work for free so as to finance a growing fleet of airplanes and routes so it makes your idealistic view of the airline industry more exciting. You have absolutely no idea how frustrating it is to not have had a pay raise for 5 years while management continues to give themselves raises and bonus, buy new planes and then complain about the “poor” financial state of the airline when they are in negotiations that drag on for 5 years.
I’m not sure how you miss the point so obvious a Boeing 747 wouldn’t miss it.
Options for extra money:
1) slush fund for executives;
2) huge dividends for stock holders;
3) huge Boeing contract for new fleet available in 10 years;
Or……
4) invest in current employees by paying them more.
I’m not saying that the only answer is 4, but that’s the ask from the union. It’s clear as day. It’s not sad. It’s not infantile. It’s collective interest. It’s suggesting that a company could improve the lives of today’s workers.
It’s a different kind of capital investment than buying a new fleet, it’s investment in human capital.
What’s sad is this dude thinks it’s funny to flaunt the crazy options of boosting executive bonuses or increasing shareholder dividends out of spite for workers.
It’s childish.
Airlines want one thing, unions want another. It’s all about what everyone wants except for passengers. We are just expected to be sheep, shut up and put up with everyone else’s demands.
Matthew, if you actually did your research you’d know that this is management tactics 101. Release a large plane order in the middle of union contract negotiations! If United wants to get serious about growth and new routes then they should get serious about paying the pilots what they deserve and quit kicking the can down the road. It is long overdue. Your last several articles have shamed the pilots and the unions while standing up for the company. Do you have a grudge against them?
Your article is SAD.
I respect pilots and flight attendants, but I cannot respect the disrespectful bargaining tactics used. There has to be a balance and I’d be all for paying entry-level pilots and FAs more, but the seniority system essentially dictates that you really have to put in your time to start earning some serious coin.
Disrespectful bargaining tactics?
Like when SK came to the training center and told the 200+ pilots in attendance that the union was the entity not wanting to lead and that they needed to send him something, and then having his SVP tell the union (after receiving the ask) that the company wasn’t going to take action on the ask until they saw what the market (aka other airlines) would support?
Like that disrespectful tactic of talking out of both sides of your mouth?
He should be happy that all he got was turned backs and not an operational slowdown, or worse.
You ever hear the joke about the ship with the bad engine, and the mechanic who fixed it with a single tap of the hammer? When the owner gets the $20,000 bill, he’s incredulous and asks why he should pay for a single hammer tap. The mechanic responds that the tap only cost $5, but knowing where to tap (ie years of experience) cost $19,995.
One unprofessional pilot doing something that results in a crash would likely bankrupt the company. Kirby (and apparently you) needs to realize that he is paying for the professionalism of the pilot group, and that if he truly wants to realize his dream of putting AA out of business, he’s going to have to pay his pilots for their knowledge and experience.
What a twisted perspective of what’s going on at United. It’s a shame someone with such a narrow mind can have such a platform to spread such biased nonsense.
When the pilots of United are 4 years past their amendable date for a new contract and our spending power has diminished significantly with inflation, we are getting tired of seeing the company flaunt money while dismissing our work groups needs.
Don’t think for a second we actually are not happy about the aggressive and innovative expansion plans. Not the case at all. 99% of us are very pleased with our leadership and how they’ve guided us through the pandemic and into the future. We welcome all of it with the caveat that we are feeling exploited for our services especially after we were offered an agreement that was concessionary in many ways this last summer. We don’t want to choke the golden goose, we don’t want the company to fail, we just want to be respected with a new contract that recognizes our importance to the successful operation at United.
You have absolutely no right to sit here and spout off that we are well compensated already and should shut up and color.
You make north of $200k per year….sorry about your “spending power”…..
Not sure how many lives you are responsible for on a daily basis, but let’s assume a handful. And let’s be honest, you’re probably not really responsible for their lives, just their actions at work.
When we screw up, people die. By the hundreds. And these events are generally considered major tragedies and make headlines worldwide.
So while some of us (not me) make north of $200k/year, it’s for good reason. In fact, of the 15k+ pilots on the seniority list, there’s probably a third of us who don’t make “north of $200k per year.”
When I go to your place of business, I hope I’m getting the best service you can provide, but my life likely doesn’t depend on it. When you come to my place of business, you better hope I’m not upset about being able to pay my bills that week.
What if I were to tell you that I worked in the reactor control room of a nuclear energy station? Would you be satisfied that I’m responsible for as many lives you?
What will it take for you guys to be happy?…my guess: nothing. In your mind, you’ll never be paid enough. Ever.
$200k, how about $400k or how about $1M per year. Will that be enough? We both know that even if you were to be paid $1M per year, you would just simply move on to the next perceived “injustice” and the cycle repeats itself. The American taxpayer saved your industry and protected your salary. Be humble….
The American taxpayer did save the industry a few times. However, you left out the rest of that sentence. The American taxpayer saved the airline industry because the industry is considered critical to national infrastructure and interstate commerce.
If you do work at a nuclear reactor, good for you. I hope you’re getting paid what you’re worth. Just like I want United Pilots to be paid what we’re worth.
You sound like maybe you didn’t achieve everything you wanted to achieve in life and now you’re jealous that pilots are able to earn what they do. Either that or you’re in management.
$200k isn’t enough for my skill set to ensure I safely and efficiently get you and 300 plus other passengers, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of freight all tucked inside several hundred million dollars worth of aircraft going to opposites ends of the globe, while away from my family and subjecting my body to sleep disruptions, radiation and airport/airplane food.
Your follow up comment shows you have some sort of twisted disdain for pilots. Maybe you have a thankless desk job, maybe you’re a middle management airline employee hoping to climb the ladder and feel threaten by a labor group that is in demand. Whatever the reason, I’m sorry you’re so bitter and aren’t supportive of other professional work groups wanting to make significant gains in their career.
I can’t imagine going through life feeling so entitled to tell other’s to basically “shut up, you don’t need anymore money”. Pathetic…
The problem with a lot of you guys is this:
You don’t see yourselves an being part of the human race and almost all of you see yourself as some type of God.
When you go to see a doctor, when he (or she) walks into the room, do you say to yourself: “This person is beneath me.” or “I’m responsible for more lives than them.” Do you?
When the end is in sight and it hits you that you put your pants on just like everyone else…..one leg at a time, you be sure to come right back here and let us all know.
Not quite. I don’t know any pilots who see themselves as gods, except for maybe a few fighter jocks who haven’t let go. What we want is to be paid appropriately for what we do. I’ll be the first to admit that pilots are always complaining about something, but there are some things that are more important than others. Safety is number one. If you want to skimp out on paying pilots what they’re worth, you’re not going to recruit or retain the talent you need to be able to operate as safely as you would like. Those pilots go elsewhere.
Professionals get paid what professionals are worth, regardless of profession. That’s all we want.
Seems like you’re having a hard time grasping that not everyone you see as beneath you is willing to kiss your ass. I’m happy where I am in life and I’m incredibly thankful for it. Could things be different/better? sure but all things considered I’m in a lot better position financially and in quality if life than a lot of other people…..a fact I try very hard to never lose sight of.
You’re hilarious. Nobody ever said that anyone was any better than anyone else. Nobody is beneath us. We pilots just happen to have the skills and experience, cultivated over many years and thousands of flight hours, to be able to operate complex pieces of equipment. We expect to be paid appropriately. It seems that in your mind, you believe the pilot should make what a barista makes, when, in fact, the pilot should be paid more like the experienced surgeon. You seem to have a hard time understanding that training + skill + experience = salary, and the more of those you have, the higher those numbers get.
We understand that our customers are our lifeblood. They are not beneath us. They are what keep us going.
You are so expressly anti-union this days, it’s almost refreshing to see you barely even trying to hide it anymore!
How anyone in their right mind could eat up the bullshit propaganda about “inflation” from multi-billion dollar airlines that have spent the last decade making billions in profits and spending freely on stock buybacks blows my mind – you are infinitely closer to returning to the workforce than you are to ever becoming CEO of one of these airlines!! Fight for your fellow workers!!
The fact is these airlines could not operate without pilots, all they are seeking is their fair share of the value they generate, shaving just a sliver off of the record profits received by shareholders, and it is just disgusting to see you time and time again go after them, instead of the real cause of inflation – corporate greed.
You are absolutely clueless about the airline industry.
Don’t think so…but sorry if you are offended.