Earlier this year I had the chance to take a brief trip to Hawaii with a very special flyer. This review recounts my business class journey from Newark to Honolulu onboard the Boeing 767-400 in business class.
United Airlines 767-400 Business Class Review: Newark – Honolulu
When Tom Stuker, United’s most frequent flyer, told me he was pushing hard for 23 million miles, I decided to join him on one of his frequent trips to Hawaii. Flying to Honolulu for the afternoon sounded like a lot of fun, particularly with the chance to do so in lie-flat seats on United.
Downgrade Snafu
But in my giddiness to fly with Stuker, I probably made a mistake in Newark.
I had assigned my seat in 8A, but when I showed up at the gate at Newark my name was paged and I was told that my seat was inoperative and to wait.
These flights to Honolulu sell out days or even weeks in advance and United faced a problem concerning my seatmate, who was also a MileagePlus Premier 1K member, and me: where should we go?
If I was thinking a bit more critically, I would have promptly offered to give up my seat in business class for a huge wad of downgrade compensation. But I was thinking about flying with Stuker, my chance to review business class, and the fact that this was a flight of nearly 11 hours….I didn’t even ask.
And the gate agents didn’t ask me either…
What ended up happening (though I am just guessing) is that one person did not show up and one person was involuntarily downgraded. How do I know? I got the first seat and boarded…this just left the other 1K in the gate area and he was starting to make a scene.
Fast-forward five minutes. A gate agent came onboard, came up to a married couple, and told them in the politest but firmest way possible that one of them would be downgraded to economy class (this aircraft has no premium economy class).
They both hit the roof, screaming like children about how long ago they had booked their tickets. They acted foolishly, but I still felt sorry for them. The man grabbed his bag and walked back to economy class with a huff.
Moments later, the other 1K who was originally seated next to me boarded and took a seat next to Mrs. Angry. I would have hated to sit next to her for 11 hours after “stealing” her husband’s seat.
In respect, despite the poor behavior of the couple, I should have worked out a deal with the gate agent. That would have probably paid for a couple of my recent trips and left everyone happy…oh well.
United 363
Newark (EWR) – Honolulu (HNL)
Wednesday, May 4
Depart: 8:10 AM
Arrive: 12:58 PM
Duration: 10hr, 48min
Distance: 4,962 miles
Aircraft: Boeing 767-400
Seat: 3K (Business Class)
I was one of the last passengers to board and found my seat in 4K, only to be immediately asked if I would be willing to switch to 3K so that a couple could sit next to each other. The request was reasonable and I was happy to oblige. I wound up right across the aisle from Stuker, who had reserved one of the “private” seats.
Seats
United uses different aircraft to fly from Newark to Honolulu. Unfortunately, my flight was operated by a 767-400. I say unfortunately because it is the last sub-fleet of aircraft in the United fleet to predominantly feature the old-school B/E Diamond seats. United is now in the process of retrofitting these aircraft to add the latest Polaris seats.
Onboard this aircraft they are arranged in a 2-1-2 configuration (I’ve reviewed this aircraft before from Barcelona to Washington Dulles).
Sure enough, my original seat was roped off and left vacant for the entire flight. Perhaps another solution would have been allowing the couple to sit in the broken seats under the condition that they could not recline them?
A pillow and blanket were waiting at each seat, along with a second cooling foam gel pillow. The footwell on my aisle seat was not as generous as the footwell in the window seat, though better than the very narrow space afforded to passengers seated in the solo seats in the middle sections.
For the most foot room, choose row one. Since there is no seat in front of you, there is additional room for your feet, creating a far less claustrophobic feel.
IFE + Wi-Fi
United offers wireless internet plus in-flight-entertainment at every seat. I love that United now only charges $8 for wi-fi for MileagePlus members ($10 for nonmembers) on every domestic flight, making the cost of staying connected less than $1/hour.
The IFE selection included movies, TV shows, looping audio, and games.
Theoretically, air traffic control (ATC) communications were also available, but as always seems to be the case, the pilot elected not to turn it on.
Those long-time pre-merger United flyers will chuckle over the fact that the handset shows channel 9 when tuned into ATC. Back in the day, when looping audio channels were available at each seat, ATC was always on channel 9.
Noise-canceling headphones were provided.
Food + Drink
I already dedicated a post to what I found to be the odd food and beverage service on this flight.
Shortly after takeoff, breakfast was offered. That included a croissant, fruit, yogurt, and a main course of egg whites with kale, potatoes, and sausage (other choice: French Toast). This is one of my favorite United Airlines dishes and I quite enjoyed the breakfast. Breakfast was served at 9:15 am.
Since the flight is nearly 11 hours, a second meal is served before landing. Or in my case…three hours later even though there was still over 5.5 hours of flight time left before reaching Honolulu.
The second meal was a choice between a soba noodle salad or a hamburger with sweet potato wedges, a side of fruit, and a hot cookie. Hamburgers are always nice comfort food.
To me, it still makes little sense why the second meal was served so early, but as others have explained it to me, it coincided with lunchtime for East Coast passengers.
Snacks were also offered including chips, nuts, crackers, and gummy bears.
Before landing, I asked if there were any soba noodle salads left and was cheerfully offered one. It was much lighter and more refreshing than I thought it would be.
Sadly, United has not restored Mai Tais to its Hawaiian flights. I stuck with sparkling water to drink.
> Read More: My Odd United Airlines Flight To Honolulu
Lavatory
The 767-400 lavatories on United are standard Boeing issue. Garment groom from Murchison-Hume and face mist from Sunday Riley were available.
Service
Service was excellent onboard. The flight attendants were friendly and engaging (which quite frankly is not always the case for some of United’s more seasoned flight attendants based in Newark) and frequently monitored the cabin.
One by one, several came up to say hello to Stuker during the flight.
One thing I will never understand is why so many passengers like to keep their window shades down during a daytime flight. Most of the flight was spent in darkness.
CONCLUSION
We landed on time in beautiful Honolulu. The 767-400 fleet is aging and currently undergoing retrofit, but was still quite comfortable for the long journey from the East Coast to Hawaii. United provided excellent service and nice meals on these flights, though I still think the timing of the second meal was way off. Flying nonstop certainly beats a connection on the West Coast en route to Hawaii.
How are you “surprised” that people don’t want glaring sunlight in their face? It’s just your preference that you want the shades up.
It’s not glaring sunlight at all. The shades were open for breakfast and there was no bright glares.
Today’s average air traveler is only interested in staring at their phone for 11 hours straight going from New York to Hawaii, instead of being entertained by watching the marvelous world outside as they fly over it at 30,000 ft and 500mph. Feel sad for them that that is what entertains them the most.
I think that if you did a poll, most of today’s travelers would opt for future planes being built without windows to eliminate totally thge possibility of glare on their tiny screens.
People were watching the IFE screens long before phones came along. And many probably still watch the IFE, even if their phones are with them.
I am so with you on this. I once was on a flight from ORD to AMS in Biz, but I was in the middle section without control of a window shade.
From the time we boarded until the time we blocked In at AMS no one opened one window even a crack. I felt like I was in a tomb.
Why is nobody cutious enough to want to enjoy the beauty of our country/world down below?
In fairness, if I’d booked an 11 hour J-class flight with my wife months ago, only to be involuntarily moved to coach once I was already seated, I would have hit the roof too. Not sure I could have avoided looking “foolish.”
Like I said, I felt very sorry for him – had it been clear what was going to happen, I would have given up my seat. A missed opportunity in retrospect.
If I were the guy that took his seat and split up the couple I would like to think that I would have felt like enough of a heel to let them sit together and go back to economy myself.. especially on a 764 which has a much better economy section than a 777
Excellent review. Note that the only -400 series produced was the Boeing 767-400ER, unlike the -300 series, which came as the Boeing 767-300 and Boeing 767-300ER.
Wonder what compensation the gentleman was offered for being downgraded ? Seems like quite the bitter pill. Can’t blame him at all for being pissed.
I had a non-operable business class seat on a flight to London and I was able to stay in the seat except for takeoff and landing, I thought that was a reasonable compromise
The 767-400 retrofits cannot come soon enough. The first one has been in HKG since early July getting Polaris, so it should be out any day now, suprised it isn’t already.
Unrelated, but I remember awhile back hearing some talks from Hawaiian lunching London flights. Seems like wouldn’t be much longer than flight to SE Asia. Obviously Thailand is much more expensive than Hawaii but feel like affluent Europeans would like Hawaii and happy to pay for a business class seat
I’m surprised the downgrade didn’t warrant a post in and of itself…
I get that Hawaii is just a domestic flight, but 11 hours is a long one, and being moved to coach is a big ask. For me, it would be the difference between going and not going on the trip at all. Do you suspect the downgraded passenger paid cash for his seat, and just wasn’t a MileagePlus member? In this situation, I would think it would probably be fairer to downgrade someone on an upgrade (even if it’s a 1K on PlusPoints upgrade) over a cash buyer. I feel really bad for the guy, and I’m sure he might actually honor his likely statement to “never fly this airline again.”
Perhaps I’ll still do one. Because I got the last seat and boarded, I missed the full exchange.
It seems to me things would go a lot better if agents, instead of acting in the “politest but firmest way possible”, would approach these downgrade conversations something like this: “We are so sorry to have to downgrade you to coach because of xyz, but I assure you that we are going to make it worth your while…”. And then actually take care do that customer with a refund of cost of ticket in addition to flight credit, and a business class meal brought back to coach.
But what the heck do I know.
Well we have glorious free market capitalism working for you. A paying customer cam be kicked downstairs without any remorse, or negative blowback. Must be working well in textbooks only.
It’s not a free market nor capitalism when the government intrudes in every aspect of operation with regulation after regulation, taxation, and conferring monopolies to certain businesses and industries due to onerous barriers to entry. Airlines are only able to overbook and only able to downgrade without just compensation (too often they throw points or an insignificant sum as they value economy at the highest rate possible) or refund because the government prevents startups for being viable and government’s militant support of union coercion forces airlines to operate under extreme burdens.
You’re getting soft, no racist or homophobic rant added to the mix today…you need to re-establish your Proud Boy credentials
The business class meal brought to coach doesn’t happen for two reasons –
1: extra meals are not boarded for this reason
2: it provides inconsistent service in Economy.
(Why’s he got a fancy meal? I want one too!!)
But on this flight there was a fully sold out business class cabin with two inoperable business class seats. Wouldn’t the catering be based on the booked passengers, not reduced for the broken seats?
Given how many times we have seen Matthew order second meals in business class, I’d say there are extra meals loaded on the plane.
I’m an EWR based FA, so I can answer this. There are exactly enough meals as there are seats, but there are usually a couple of passengers who don’t eat, freeing up a tray or two. The crew also has dedicated meals on flights over 8 hours, which are 100% theirs. However, since some FAs bring their own food, it’s not uncommon for a friendly FA to be willing to surrender their uneaten crew meal near the end of the flight, as was likely the case in this blog with Matthew’s soba salad. The issue with providing a meal in coach to a downgraded pax is finding an FA who’s willing to go the extra mile. I have served business class meals in coach in downgrade situations if it’s just 1, or maybe up to 2 passengers. More than that would be unrealistic. I have also had agents ask me to take special care of a single downgraded passenger, as it is allowed by United’s Core4 program on the principle of “caring” to serve any food onboard to any cabin, i.e. for special customer service reasons such as dietary restrictions or downgrades, IF supplies exist. On the flip side, I have had some downgraded customers refuse a business class meal in coach, because they feel that by accepting it, they will lose clout with their complaint.
Thanks for the detail!
“Perhaps another solution would have been allowing the couple to sit in the broken seats under the condition that they could not recline them?”
Or have you and the other guy do that while the couple stay in their original seats?
Matt, do you know if there a streaming version of live ATC you can listen while on the ground that replicates Channel 9?
I believe there are.
Great review as always. I tought you were still in Barcelon from Dubrovnik tough jajaja. Will there be a BCN-USA review?
this whole flight experience sounds awful. The fiasco of downgrading people – already seated confirmed upgraded newlyweds no less, the broken seats, the really gross looking food, the nearly ragged blanket, the pecular 2-1-2 seating — is this good upgraded travel? if so, not at all appealing. Maybe its a Hawaii thing.
Hawaii is nothing but another domestic flight. It’s often easy to forget that.
You must not fly many 767’s….there’s nothing peculiar about 2-1-2 or 1-2-1 in 767 business class. Pretty standard, due to the narrower cabin width, vs the 777 or A330.
If I understand correctly, a passenger, whom you described as childish, who paid for a business class seat with cash or miles or both, and whose seat was functioning properly and safely, was told he or his wife would have to downgrade to economy so that a passenger whose seat was not functioning properly or safely could have a business class seat.
Why wasn’t one of the passengers originally assigned to one of the seats not functioning properly or safely, downgraded to economy?
Yet you refer to the downgraded passenger and his wife as childish.
Because he yelled and screamed like my five-year-old when downgraded. Again, I felt very bad for him.
But if one person has to be downgraded, why should it be on seat versus MileagePlus status? I was happy to see United still recognize that long-term loyalty matters. There was no easy solution and it seems to me the better solution would have been to sort it before boarding…but I don’t blame United for choosing to downgrade the no-status passenger versus the 1K passenger.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that the pecking order is revenue first, and then status. So any passenger that gets bumped is a smaller hit to the bottom line. If that is still the case, then the passenger downgraded not only was of a lesser status, but they also paid less for their ticket (if any $$$ at all). Most likely the bumped passenger had used miles for the ticket, but had little to no status. And imo United did the right thing, as painful as that was.
I’ll double check, but I thought it was status first, then revenue.
No!! Never, it’s the other way around. First and foremost, revenue. Full fare F or J will never be downgraded. Status or no status, it doesn’t matter. That guy had to be just an upgrade. I
I always thought revenue paying passengers would hold the seat over an upgraded loyalty member. I don’t fly enough to have great status, but have enough money to buy the business class seat. The day I get bumped out of my paid for business class seat so someone who paid for economy can have it will be a bad day for all in the vicinity.
He should have refused to move. Would United have called the police like Dr. Dao? Or would they have figured something else out?
Did Mr. Angry pay for his business class ticket with cash or miles or both, did he purchase an economy ticket and upgrade with cash or miles, or did he purchase an economy ticket and received a complimentary upgrade?
The same questions for the two 1K passengers whose seats were inoperable but eventually seated in the business cabin.
I have been spoiled by the Dreamliners operating the flights to NRT during this pandemic. Even at the darkest setting, I can still look out the window and observe – this has been my inflight entertainment on these flights and lately I could not understand why I was so jet lagged after arriving GUM on the evening NRT flights and recall that I was just glued to the window for the LAX-NRT and SFO-NRT crossings and not resting. My usual flight between Japan and CONUS is either NRT or IAH which of course does not have tinted window shade settings – so I just sleep, and sleep, and sleep. I’m amazed at the views I’ve missed out on during the years especially when making the crossing above/near Alaska and the Aleutians – wow! Although UA flights between IAH and NRT are increasing in frequency I find myself one stopping in either SFO or LAX just so that I can enjoy the “view” out of the Dreamliner – lol. I’m glad I’m not the only one!
I really like the 767. Especially when traveling with my wife. I been up front and back in economy and so much more comfortable then most any planes.
I agree, Tom. I miss the 767 and it’s layout on flights between HI and CA.
Typical United Maintenance. At least you were not on one of their 777s that are not “air-worthy” or the ones that do u-turns several hours out this week!
And this is why we all know Matt is not deserving.
Oh, if I had only know I would have given up my seat. But once I sat down next to his wife I was locked in. “Not my fault”. vomit for the fake empathy.
Re-read story so you don’t sound quite so stupid.
I don’t understand why people “hit the roof” or throws a rage whenever they are asked to be downgraded?
Is the compensation not good enough?
Actually quite the opposite! For miles or cash UPGRADE you will probably get your miles or money back plus some joke like a $100 flight credit if and only if you beg for it. Absolutely not proactively offered. Generally the compensation for a paid ticket is not only a joke, but a complete rip-off. The calculation generally goes something like this:
“Ok, you paid $2000 for a business class seat and an economy seat at the time was $200. However, if you had walked up and booked the remaining economy middle seat in row 53 today that would have been $1900 so that’s what we’ll use. So that means we owe you $100. But given that you thought you’d get a meal so skipped breakfast and are now going to starve on an 11 hour flight, are having your honeymoon ruined, and are being given an inferior product to what you purchased in good faith, we’ll throw in an extra $100. Now get out of that lie-flat seat, go sit in 53E for 11 hours, and enjoy your $1800 economy flight that you never would have purchased had you known up-front what it would cost you. Your $200 credit will show up in a week or so”.
I’m not kidding.
Yikes. It’s not policy&procedure at all to serve the premium cabin landing meal in the middle of the flight. There is an economy class buy-onboard “lunch” service in economy at this time, but not in the premium cabin. The FAs did this to maximize their breaks, and this needs to be brought to United’s attention. This will allow United to send out a memo to the FA’s not to do this. At best, I hope you included this in your flight survey. United has been trying to ask FAs to follow the publish service standards, and some still just do it their own way.
Thanks for the detail good stuff!
The seats were lie flat, correct? Was there live TV? Also, if you ask the flight attendants if the ATC channel can be turned, what’s your experience with the captain actually doing it? Thanks!
UA getting cheap
Get on the intercom and start offering a voucher at $1,000 and go up from there.
Also as noted above also could have let those with the inoperable seat use it between takeoff and landing.
If I were the husband would have held firm in the seat – what are they going to do bring the Port Authority on and drag off a passenger making no threats.
I suppose they could try to play the ‘not obeying crew instructions’ card although crew is not on duty until that door closes
There is also the matter of how badly does the pax who is involuntarily downgraded really need to be on that particular flight or even really need to travel to Hawaii.
Perhaps if someone who is told to involuntarily downgrade says either, “I want to be rescheduled on flight(s) where I am able to get the class of service indicated on my ticket” or “I want to cancel my trip since I am unable to get the class of service indicated on my ticket and please offload my checked bag(s)” then what would happen?
I specifically booked a business class window seat to have a window in the seat for which I paid a business class fee. After equipment changes by United was reseated to 4a. On a 767-400 to Honolulu This looks like new style seating – there is a significant difference in the privacy and windows in the even and odd rows. You definitely want odd. Odd window rows get 2.5 windows. 4 window seats on the aircraft get zero windows. (Rows 4 and 8). EWR is my closest airport – United rarely fails to disappoint.