A concerning set of allegations have been levied against the United Aviate Academy, an in-house flight training school at United Airlines.
Concerning Allegations Suggest Trouble At Showcase United Aviate Academy
In February 2020, United acquired its own flight school, called the United Aviate Academy. The plan was to train 5,000 pilots by 2030, all of whom would be guaranteed a job at United and half who would be women or people of color.
Yet as we enter the second half of 2023, a detailed post on Reddit purportedly posted by a student or student advocate at the United Aviate Academy (UAA) suggests that the people running UAA may need more accountability. Let’s examine the note:
So remember United’s “revolutionary” flight school The United Aviate Academy? Yeah well, it’s kind of an absolute dumpster fire.
What could go wrong when you put a $17 billion airline in charge of a large flight school? Well apparently literally everything.
The school is riddled with problems.
They have hundreds of people who have been accepted that are waiting for class dates but they are currently bringing in 10-15 students per month and even skipping some months.
They are incredibly behind on their training timeline. Everywhere they state that this is a 12-month program, 0-MEI [Multi-Engine Flight Instructor], but in reality, people are taking over 18 months just to finish CFI [Certified Flight Instructor].
Another example of training delays, people at the academy are currently taking over 5 months to finish their PPLs [Private Pilot License]. Of a class of 16 that started Q1 2023, only 4 have taken their PPL check-ride as of the end of June.
Instructors are incredibly overloaded, some instructors have as many as 11 students, and remember, these are all full-time students. Students are promised 5 flights per week but are often capped at 2-4 because the instructors cannot legally fly enough.
Speaking of overloaded instructors, management pushes CFIs to their limits but also watches their every move and any minor wrong step like flying to much with certain students has gotten CFIs fired.
People are having to wait up to a month in between certificates due to instructor overload.
They are not hiring their own graduates but are starting to hire externally.
Management is trying to hide all the problems. For example; they are having “graduation ceremonies” for those who finish CPL [Commercial Pilot License] (even though the program doesn’t end until you finish all your CFI certificates) in order to make them look on time since people are taking 12-13 months just to finish CPL.
UAA fosters a culture of intimidation. Many students have been let go after speaking out or complaining to hire-ups for vague reasons, and therefore students currently at the school are too scared to speak out. School management constantly has all eyes and ears open for any sign of dissent or criticism and is looking over everyone’s shoulder.
Despite all these issues, United Aviate Academy management is currently having internal casting calls for a prime-time commercial that will be airing nationwide. I think that show’s where the school’s management’s priorities lie.
At this point, I am convinced that United doesn’t care about flight training at all and United Aviate Academy is just a poster child for its “good leads the way” marketing message because whenever they talk about the school they only talk about how many women and minorities are at the school but never discuss any actual flight training accomplishments or achievements.
I speak today on behalf of many UAA students who unfortunately cannot speak about this openly for the above-stated reasons. Hopefully, if someone is considering this school they will see this and think otherwise, and also maybe this info getting out there will foster some change at this school.
(bolding not mine)
The concerns are quite alarming and have nothing to do with the initial controversy over the affirmative actions aims of the school. Numbers 9 and 10 are particularly concerning, as a house built on optics rather than substance will ultimately collapse.
CONCLUSION
We will update this story if we hear from United Airlines, but it appears that even if there are some exaggerations above, more resources must be invested in this school if it is to be successful. United must carefully vet those who are leading it to ensure that this is not a vanity project, but a meaningful program to funnel well-trained pilots to United in the years ahead. Students, current pilots, and customers all deserve this.
I think a lot of professions out there have difficulties in training and hiring, not just in aviation. In my profession, it’s very difficult to get registered nurses. I was surprised on one United flight I was on, the pilots clearly had Australian accents (or New Zealand, from the Star Alliance group) and I would assume they were hired externally.
I don’t see the connection of nurse-pilots. At Aviate they have the students there. They do not have the instructors, nor the planes to learn in. this is different.
That is nearly every flight school in America. They all promise 12 months but most students now days are coming in with zero hours having never been in a cockpit. It is hard to take a student from zero to CFI in just 12 months. The norm is 18-24 months and being let go as a student from a flight school can be a blessing in disguise. Flight school is expensive the not so good schools will just continue to take and take and take a students money (loans that must be paid back) while the student isn’t making any progress. If a student fails a check-ride prep (the mock exam before your real exam with an FAA air checkmen) three times a good school will sit that student down and say this isn’t the program for you you are just wasting your money. Whereas some schools will simply keep taking the students money even though they aren’t seeing any improvement, these are not people you want as a commercial airline pilot.
CFI across the country are in short supply many of them as soon as they hit the required number of hours already have employment agreements with many of the nations regional carriers or some even go straight to the ULCCs (although additional training is needed to go straight to flying an Airbus or Boeing for a ULCC). And with there being so many students trying to get into the profession of commercial airline pilot CFIs at schools across the country have more students than CFIs have ever had in their history. Some schools leave it up to the CFI to monitor their hours they take a hands off approach and it is up to the CFI to make sure they are flying more hours than they should. For UAA to monitor CFIs hours isn’t something that should be criticized. Going outside of UAA to find CFIs isn’t something that should be criticized because UA first has to build it pipeline of CFIs. That is easier said than done because of the shortage of pilots at every UAX operator which again are hiring UAA’s CFI as soon as they have the required number of hours.
It is frustrating for new students who come in expecting to be a CFI in 12 months working for UAX in 22 months and working for United in 38 months. It is hard to go from zero to United Airlines first officer in just over 3 years. Some people have done it however MOST DO NOT. What we do not need in this country are mediocre pilots or worst pilots that don’t have the education and skill required to take on any situation that may arise. Take that Delta 717 incident that could have easily gone horrible wrong but nearly every passenger said it was the smoothest landing they’ve experienced and that was without the nose gear.
That entire “good leads the way” is just another bs marketing campaign from a soul-less corporation. Shocker.
Oh no, this guy has discovered that marketing is made up BS. Might as well shut down Madison Ave now!
Billy Bob my good man! I don’t really know about Madison Avenue since I don’t live in a dung pile like New York. Unlike you and your alter ego, UA-NYC, I don’t see the bright lights of ads from a dingy, roach infested $2000 per month studio apartment. So please forgive my naivety and lack of sophistication!
Marketing 101 – there are lies, damn lies, and then marketing.
NYC all day over some swampy inbred South Alabama s-hole you likely live in
It really sounds like the edge of the bullwhip (supply chain gets disrupted, United hires a ton of students, not enough training pilots, backlog occurs) and that is hard to escape. A better autopilot system and a need for fewer pilots might be the only solution.
Every time I step on board an aircraft, especially when I know we have marginal weather conditions or go when I have to have major surgery, I can’t help but hope that I have the most diverse team taking my life in their hands.
When I have surgery I want every doctor to have the same background and the same experience so that when there’s complications none of them have a differing approach that may lead to a better outcome.
Would that be your penectomy? It won’t make you a real woman you know.
Maybe when the performed your lobotomy a more diverse selection of doctors would have stopped before cutting too much brain tissue
Perhaps you should get a lobotomy and a diverse team of surgeons could remove the part of your brain that makes you sexually attracted to children?
The only one here that mentions a sexual attraction to children and sexual reassignment is you. You seem to have an abnormal obsession about it. Almost like you think if you preemptively point the finger at others nobody will suspect you.
Are you just upset that it hits too close to home for you?
I’m not upset at all, I’m not hiding or repressing anything. Can you say the same thing?
Absolutely
You mean there are differant clinical approaches based on one’s DEI score? Black doctors cut you differently than homosexual doctors?
Another badly run operation by United.
Horrors! I am shocked!
What is a “student advocate”?
So we have someone, probably in their 20’s with no meaningful life experiance and certainly no aviation experiance, part of the Participation Trophy Generation, who thinks they know how to run a flight school, which is not the same as flying an airplane by a long shot.
Is the school hectic and probably chaotic some times?
Of course it is. What do you expect when UA has ramped up from nothing to hiring thousands in just a year or so?
Is the pipeline constricted from graduation to hiring?
Of course it is. Some people seem to think people are coming from flying Cessna 172’s to flying a 737 upon graduation and that’s not remorely how it works.
Graduates from this school get hired by the various United Express carriers first They don’t graduate from there with 1,500 hours in a 50+ seat airliner and then go right to work for UA.
Which generation is the one giving out participation trophies you moron?
Don’t forget most of the people in this program are “diversity hires”.
Probably has a lot to do with it.
Probably has nothing to do with it.
Yes, UA has been pretty up front and shameless about its racial and sexual discrimination policy. I suspect the “diversity” is an issue, with the fligght school having issues with the work habits of some of its students, but I suspect the bigger reason is just the sheer volume of people they are cranking out.
What does diversity hires have to do with anything? Some of the diversity hires are much more qualified than non diversity hires. Look at Justice Sotomayor. She’s definitely more qualified than some white male lawyers. I would love to know what data you base your assumptions. Do you mean to suggest that “diversity hires” are less qualified or capable?
As a student of UAA, it is not what was promised. Number two and number nine are so real. The rest are accurate too. I know I would’ve been better off at a more established school.
More established? That school has been around for decades when it trained LH pilots from the ground up (so to speak). That’s why UA bought it. It is a long established flight school.
They fired a good majority of that schools original staff, westwind.
I think this article has a lot of truths but I’m 99% sure the info came from a disgruntled student. It literally says in their agreement “commercial pilot.” Graduating as a CPL isn’t even that bad. There are many improvements that need made but there’s also a lot of pros going for the school. All in good time
I’m fairly certain of that too – but I’m not sure that renders the complaints subject to dismissal.
No, what renders the complaint (and this ludicrous post) subject to dismissal is wholesale copy/pasting a REDDIT POST as if that has any value without absolutely any type of corroboration, or even a search of similar posts or comments.
A “concerning set of allegations” is a laughable way of putting something that you have absolutely no idea is even remotely close to reality and amounts to an anonymous online review.
Do better. Students, pilots and customers deserve it.
Sorry, but my research on the post went well beyond copying and pasting a Reddit post. You should know better.
Ok so you’re just a bad writer? You researched that the school exists and then copy pasted the Reddit post. What am I missing? Why wouldn’t you include any of that “research” in this article?
Are you one of the intimidators at the school or the numbskull behind the latest ad campaign? Piss off.
Hi Mathew ..
You are right abut the school’s practices. I would like to update your blog and discuss how the FAA is currently ignoring this flight schools woes. And unprofessional training practices in Goodyear Az. School. Contact me when you have a few minutes- thanks
James, I sent you an email.
Hi Matt, Jim here.
Let me know if you want to continue discussing the Aviate Schools violations of Noise and flight standards in the future. The situation has not improved. The School has agreed to fly in specified patterns and yet the novice pilots are unable to comply. Look at the increasing number of RESIDENT complaints filed to the FAA and the current AIRPORT OWNERS, THE city OF phoenix.
The school has recently lost the senior leaders. The CEO, CFO HR and numerous flight instructors,
The school has ignored the number of residential concerns to be a good “United Citizen” by complying with FAA and City’s voluntary noise and pollution regulations.
You are correct, I have a child that is a current student at UAA. They have had nothing but bad instructors and delays. This school is very expensive, requiring a large majority of it’s students to get student loans of $100,000+. The school doesn’t care as long as they get their money. If it takes a student longer they start threatening to expel the student when the fault lies with the school. They can’t get flights scheduled, they can’t get assigned an instructor to do the next module, it is very true it takes a month or more to get an instructor. They have been there for 15 months, and not even close to ther CPL. If they threaten again with expulsion, my next step is to contact an attorney, they are not putting the rest of their life at risk by being in debt for over $100k and not have a pilot’s career to pay that debt.
Hello Mathew,
Im writing you to see if I can get in contact with you. Im currently enrolled in the UNITED AVIATE ACADEMY and I want to speak out. this academy its definitely with a lots of problems, they promise a full time program that would be 5 days a week and they can barely provide 1 day. if anyone says something they will let you go and start charging money for all the time invested. They are causing major damages on young people.
I left my profesional life to be here in Goodyear arizona, it has been 7 months since I started in november 2023 and im beyond frustrated with this academy, there several students in the same situation looking for someone outthere willing to help or provide legal advise.
I was off boarded after being there for two years. I didn’t pass my CFI 11 after two attempts. They gave me less than 24 hours to leave. I heard they are off boarding 5 to 10 students a week. I would like to file a class action lawsuit but am not sure how to go about it. Please advise. Thank you
I feel for you John and all of the other students. Many of who took school loans for this and will have to start paying back these loans when they realistically haven’t finished it. They should have loaned out themselves and not expected payment until they do graduate. What is to happen there? What are the advocates or the uppers in the school going to do about this, especially when students were supposed to be full time and not work. How are these loans getting paid back?? How are these students supposed to live and not get in trouble financially?
This article is actually spot on. Maybe if they had an anonymous response from the students.
The article is accurate
As a CFI my heart goes out to everyone . I could never teach 11 students at a time. 5-6 was my ceiling and I would make sure only 2-3 were private pilot. This allowed me to dedicate quality time to each studnet. I went to the airlines at 1500 and the taught during furlough when COViD hit. I can say right now that if they try to lower the 1500 hour requirement , they will decimate training completely. There will not I’ll be far less experienced pilots but there will be no instructors to teach them !
The premise of coming right out stating the demographics “shall” consist of women and people of color. This program is a joke…
It’s “higher-ups”, not “hire-ups”.
Good luck appeasing the “hire-ups”!
Really? These crybabies have it all good and complain for mundane things . I did a College degree at the same time and got private – ME done in 2 years with many months of being unable to fly for many reasons. Also, I had no job secured prior to launching myself into flight training.
Back in 2007 it took me 2 years with periods of not flying while çompleting my bachelor’s degree as well. No one promised me a job prior to starting flight training, no financial aid, etc… I would be pretty happy to have had a chance at Aviate when put into perspective.
What kind of garbage is this? An anonymous Reddit post is the source of a news article? Did you confirm this with any actual named sourcing? Even an unnamed source? Get any actual quotes? You wouldn’t believe what Reddit says about your mother, I’ll do 800 words on it tomorrow on HackyBS.com or Buzz Feed maybe it’ll get picked up somewhere.
Yes, I verified this through my sources who fear reprisal for going on the record. What does that tell you?
That they don’t believe it enough to put their name to it.
That’s absurd. Shame on you. Whistleblowers can’t always out themselves, at least the outset.
Shame on me? You’re the author publishing an hit piece, and I’m merely someone answering what must have been a purely rhetorical question.
I’m positive you have not stepped foot in the training facility (nor have I), yet you’re shaming someone who took the time to post a potentially contrarian view to yours by stating a valid possibility to the anonymity of the original author. I think the shame lies elsewhere.
Your motives are suspect and your allegations assumed the worst. Just reread what you wrote.
That’s all.
Matthew, neither you nor I know the whole story but there are a lot of red flags here. I was a CFI before a 40 year airline career and know that the training envir0nment can be intense. It’s not uncommon that those that struggle the most can also be the first to blame others for their problems. Key is how many have these complaints.
Can’t blame UAL for the staffing issues, it’s all across the entire aviation industry. Safe to say they just need to accept less students is all. Yet one of the complaints is too many students waiting for acceptance??…and complaining about understaffing at the same time??
As far as complaint #9 ….Their should be an attrition rate, not everyone has the attitude or ability to be an airline pilot. Again, you could be looking at sour grapes….. #10? What’s wrong with wanting to present the program in a positive light and get the message out there. It certainly can’t hurt the understaffing issue they are dealing with. They need to promote the program to attract more CFI’s, not keep it under wraps.
This sounds like a thinly veiled swipe at the diversity gains being attempted. News flash, these are all students starting from scratch so their skin color or gender is neither a plus or a minus. If anything an applicant from a less traditional background than one of someone with an easier path in life would have skills that could serve him/her well in the course of their career. Bringing diversity to a pilot group strengthens it, not weakens it.
There’s no swipe, at least on my end, concerning the diversity element of Aviate Academy.
also, what Enrique says is a good point. These students are getting a golden opportunity. Many would see that and deal with the situation. Weather delays, understaffing issues, etc are of course a problem here and will be throughout their career. Being an Airline Pilot means you can deal with adversity and the unexpected. How a pilot deals with issues that pop up defines him or her. Perhaps this is a good opportunity for Aviate to weed out the entitled whiners while others are dealing with the situation more pragmatically and less emotionally….always a good trait in an Airline Pilot
I’m gonna be a blowhard here…LOL. Another issue that could be in play. CRM skills are critical to an Airline Pilot. Since this article opened up spotlighting the diversity aspect of the school I think it’s a safe assumption that’s at play here. If they have students grumbling about it at school, that’s a major red flag. If he/she’s gonna struggle with getting along with others in an intense environment now he/she will likely do so throughout their career. Again, as I said earlier, how many have these complaints? If the majority are dealing with it and succeeding then getting rid of the few that feel too entitled to deal with adversity would be better off in a different line of work. I haven’t seen anything that indicates safety is being compromised. If it takes them a little longer to finish and they can’t handle it??……
and good to hear Matthew (just saw your reply). But it does seem to be an issue for some in the replies.
Some issues that may be significant contributing factors to the problems since United took over this school are the quality of its CFIs as well as some of its recent students. As I understand it, when this school was run by Lufthansa, it employed a cadre of highly experienced career CFIs. Unfortunately, however, United chose to replace the majority of the former CFIs with their newly trained and qualified “time-building” CFIs which, arguably, has contributed to the training delays and problems that this school is currently facing. Additionally, based on their selection process, one could also argue that the Lufthansa flight students were of a higher quality and potentially had more aptitude for flying than some of this school’s more recent students. This is a shame as, from what I understand, prior to being taken over by United this school was one of the finest civilian flight training establishments in the United States. In an effort to get this program back on track, perhaps United’s management should consider augmenting its time-building CFIs with a cadre of career CFIs.
This article is SPOT ON! With a child enrolled in this program, I am mortified with the experience. At the pace they are providing flight time, it will take my child several years to complete the program. They continually attempt to get him to “quit” because they are having financial problems and can keep any money thus far if the student quits vs. them letting them go. The reverse discrimination, blind-eye to FAA safety regulations and lack of accountability has many students ready to sue. I encourage ANY person to find ANY other school for their own sanity, time and money.
This article is dead on. They are definitely putting pressure on the CFIs to push the students through. Problem is they are assigning 6 to 9 students to fresh new CFIs which runovee their allotted time daily. They have nothing in place to help the CFIs. They terminate them when they don’t comply or voice their opinions.
contact us!!!!! we want to speak out. ( students currently enrolled at UAA Academy )