As a follow-up to my locked lavatory story, I’ve composed an open letter to pilots at United Airlines.
Dear United Airlines Pilots:
First, I want to thank you for your overall professionalism, skill, and commitment to safety. I’ve flown close to two million miles on United over the last 20 years and never had a safety concern. During that time, I’ve interacted with countless pilots who have not only been proficient but the sort of men and women whom I deeply respect. Like Denny Flanagan or Alberto Diaz or Jed Baum or Raul Boerner.
Today, I want to return to the issue of locking the lavatory…and more importantly, the reactions and comments I received from many pilots, some of which approached unhinged lunacy. If you missed the earlier story, a friend of mine recently flew on a United 767-400 in Polaris Business Class from Washington to Munich. That aircraft has two lavatories in the rear of business class for 34 passengers and no forward lavatories.
Onboard, he experienced that one of the lavatories was locked for the entire flight. Four times during the flight he tried to use the lavatory and found it locked. When he asked a pilot about it, he was told it was locked for “security” reasons.
This isn’t my first rodeo…I’ve been writing this blog for nearly 15 years and I am well aware of the procedure for keeping the lavatory locked during the pilot rotation, which typically happens at the start and end of each flight for 10-20 minutes. That was not the case here.
And yet I was called every name under the sun (read all 190+ comments…). Many pilots weighed in with comments like this:
Pilots are FLYING THE PLANE and are charged with your safety. Their schedule in flight is tight and regulated. They need access to the facility and should not have to wait because some entitled a-hole is holed up in the bathroom.
The 767-400 has limited facilities. Take a walk back to coach and try your chances.
Nice to know how passengers are perceived…
or this:
Yes, this is for security and safety. If there is a bathroom up front it is simply blocked while pilots are using the bathroom. Unfortunately, these are behind business. This is poor journalism to publish misinformation and assumptions before finding out the facts.
There were dozens of more comments assuming that I must have been misinformed and that my friend was clearly lying or not paying attention.
No. That wasn’t the case. The lavatory was locked throughout the flight.
And I was quite charitable too: I mentioned that this must be a rare occurrence because I have never seen a lavatory locked for the entire flight in my two million miles on United. I have seen a forward lavatory locked on Lufthansa, SAS, and Turkish Airlines, so this certainly does occur. In fact, Lufthansa even has a placard on its A350 for this:
But I also received comment after comment from passengers who also experienced locked lavatories for the entire flight. I asked about it on FlyerTalk as well, where more passengers came forward with similar stories: the lavatory was locked throughout their United flight.
So no pilots, do not insult our intelligence by saying this never happens. It may be rare (I think it is rare), but it DOES happen and appears to happen more often than I thought.
Locking the lavatory temporarily for rotational duties not only is reasonable, but makes perfect sense. Locking it for the entire flight? Not cool.
Please be mindful of your guests, just as you ask them to be mindful of you.
Best,
Matthew
image: vintage United Airlines ad
Passengers are but guests in the kingdom of the pilots. In fact, airlines are nothing more than job programs for pilots, and passengers are simply along for the ride. There is absolutely no connection between fares paid and pilots’ jobs.
I am Pilot, God, master of the skies.
Dan. I couldn’t think of a more appropriate comment.
Not all pilots think the world revolves around them. But most of them from atlas and United do from my experience.
Ati and eastern pilots seem to be down to earth humble human beings.
They love to obsess about their contracts and fuss about their travel office. Talking to their limo driver is a major “drag” and they do anything in there power to pretend he doesn’t exist if they are riding with more then one pilot in the car. Just my experience with united pilots. Very elite group of individuals
Entitled pilots?!? Gasp! Say it isn’t so. Seriously, just watch the strut through the airport. Watch the disgust when their travel through a crowded airport is impeded. Watch the early boarding with 3-4-5 bags….ALL placed in the overhead. Certainly not all pilots, but it does absolutely seem to be a prerequisite. And AA just gave them priority business class seat access, over paying customers. So they… Not the paying customers… Arrive rested for work! Entitled? Nah.
If locking the front lavatory for the whole flight without it being out of order or the crew member being sick is against airline policy, the pilots are acting as faithless servants and committing fraud against the airline. Lavatory access is something that is a selling point in higher classes. If any pilot does this, he or she is stealing from passengers and owes passengers compensation. Abuse of authority over flight safety is a crime.
Thank you for this follow-up post. You failed to mention that the traveling public pay good money for access to the business class restrooms. Locking the restrooms for the entire flight is a beach of contract .
Agreed.
Hi Mathew,
I have read your posts and many of the replies. I am a UAL Captain flying mostly international segments and have been doing so for nearly 20 years. While I am not familiar with the 767-400, I am familiar with the norms of crew needs and crew changes.
On fleets I have flown, it is not typical to leave a lav locked for any length of time. The 767-400 may be different.
That said, I am often on the last break, which ends with me in my seat in plenty of time for any appropriate briefing for the time I was on break. But, all too often, when it’s time to return to the flight deck, there is a passenger who is camping out in the lav that needs to be verified unoccupied. Patience can only go so far. I have known passengers to spend 20-30 minutes just before decent in that lav. For that reason, it does make sense to lock it off. Not for the entire flight but to make sure it can be unoccupied when needed.
Unfortunately, this would also be a time of high demand for the lav by the passengers but we have to do our jobs safely and appropriately.
Marc
Hi Marc, I greatly appreciate that you took the time to comment and for your insight. Thanks!
There are at least 6 lavs on a 767.
Pilots can use ANY of them. They can also cut in line or knock on the locked door to “make sure you’re ok.”
Thank you for being a professional pilot but your argument here rings hollow.
Very well done; thanks for following thru on this issue; never had this problem before on Singapore Airlines.
Why are the pilots even allowed to lock the toilets? Shouldn’t that be FA responsibility?
This could have been something as simple as a lavatory issue that made it unusable to passengers but not crew. That does occasionally occur. The trash can flap will not close will make it unusable, since there is no way to contain a trash fire. The crew would probably still use it although passengers would be restricted.
This is the most likely reason. I’ve flown for united for 29 years and have never seen the lag locked off unless it was for a maintenance issue. And yes, the crew can still legally use it with certain malfunctions like the trash lid or lights inoperable while passengers cannot.
This is only going to get worse that DEI is going to promote more incompetent and entitled people.
I agree completely and am also too dumb to function.
That’s a supremely ignorant comment. Otherwise, please provide proof.
I am not answering for anyone however, all the proof you need is located in the NTSB report on the Atlas Air (Prime Air) crash of Feb 23, 2019. In this and probably future accidents DEI should be changed to DIE if continued hiring of unqualified and or sub-standard candidates continues.
The 767 that was destroyed a few months ago
The 737 that ran off the runway this week
For starters.
This guy is right. His extensive research has shown us that accidents never happened before DEI.
Koggerj is a typical incel. Low IQ, half a man,
Pathetic human being. Micropenis too.
Every accusation is a confession.
So you’re a “DEI hire”, or just independently incompetent?
Just asking a question.
What a Muppet… Repeating catch phrases.
There is such a thing as an MEL that will mandate the lavatory closed to passengers but not crew.
Very possible the lav was deferred for a maintenance reason and not allowed to be used by passengers but still available to be used by crew.
You’re absolutely right Matthew, your time spent as a passenger somehow overrules the actual crews who fly these flights and who comment after comment keep telling you THIS IS NOW HOW IT WORKS.
This is not how it has ever worked. Ask any United pilot or flight attendant, 1 year at the company or 35 years. This isn’t nor has ever been the norm.
So please get off your high horse with “oh I’ve flown two million miles”
He literally said he’s flown 2 million miles and has never experience this himself. So his 2 million miles agrees with you.
I would’ve just unlocked it after the pilot went back up front. Not difficult at all.
I’m curious how a pilot (or flight attendant) would respond to that. Obviously. I know how to flip up the “occupied” sign and slide the knob as well…I’ve never done it, though.
Obeying posted placards and crew instructions is a federal regulation, so….not well.
That reminds me of when I was at the Detroit Auto Show years ago and waved my hand in front of a Tesla Model S to prompt the motorized door handle to slide out, then opened it and got in.
I started showing other attendees around the interior. Some employees got pissed over my “intrusion” (opening the door of an unlocked car) and requested that I get out of the car.
Not my fault they didn’t know how to lock their own vehicle.
You talk about your experience flying. Have you have never seen a lavatory blocked off due to a malfunction? I realize the employee told you it was blocked for security but they may have simply been mistaken. Give them the benefit of the doubt!
As I said, I’ve never personally seen this on United, but it does seem to be a SOP on other carriers including Lufthansa and SAS.
Why isn’t that what they said, then?
This happened to me on two AA Trans Atlantic flights also and it it’s quite irritating to say the least!
The comment from a purported pilot (“The 767-400 has limited facilities. Take a walk back to coach and try your chances.”) goes against the directive of “use the lavatory in your ticketed cabin.” That shows how dumb that comment was.
Speaking of writing things without the facts….this entire piece is speculation. I’m sure a passenger saw the MEL(s) before departure, not. Also pilots don’t lock lavatories, FAs do. Or it will be locked for the duration of the flight if it is deferred. I’ve seen deferrals where lavs are available to crew members but not passengers for random reasons, smoke detector inop, waste bin compartment won’t close, exposed metal with a cut risk, etc etc etc….
Why is everyone so quick to point a finger when they literally don’t know what they’re talking about.
Very foolish comment.
He watched the pilot reach up, flip the latch shut from the outside, and put a napkin in to signify it was not occupied. How stupid do you think we are?
Matthew,
The napkin is to identify the rotating crewmember which lavatory is available. As you have mentioned, this is only for crew rotation or due to physiological needs of the pilots. The mere thought of removing the napkin and opening the door can be construed as interfering with crew duties with very severe consequences under the law. No it is not normal to have the door locked the entire flight. I am sorry your friend experienced this on his flight to Munich. If the lavatory was working fine, that should not have happened and your friend should report it to United Airlines. As mentioned, only due to maintenance issues will the lavatory be blocked but may be used by the crew under the federal regulations.
I’ll start by making clear that I wasn’t working this flight, but one possibility you should consider is that it’s fairly common for the lavatory to be closed to passengers for maintenance reasons, but open to pilots. For example, I just worked a flight where the swinging lid to the trash can was broken. Unfortunately, that’s not legal. The lav needs a fire resistant container with a fire suppression system in case a passenger tries to put a cigarette in there. Perhaps an antiquated rule, since mostly what we have are passengers vaping, not smoking in the lav, but it’s a rule nonetheless. The FAA does permit pilots and FAs to use the lav when deferred for this reason. So if the lav was closed to passengers for this reason for an entire flight, would I call it a security issue? Maybe not the phrasing I would use, but it’s not incorrect. It’s also possible the pilots knew it was closed during the rotation for security, but only the FAs knew it was closed to passengers for the rest of the flight. I’m not saying it’s impossible that the crew closed off the lav for their personal use, but I don’t think it’s the mostly likely explanation.
I totally agree that when a lav is closed for maintenance, pilots/FAs might still use it. But that wasn’t the case here. On this flight, he was told first it was closed for security reasons and second, it was closed for duty pilots. It was open at the very beginning of the flight, then closed for the remainder of the flight.
Or the FAs goofed and forgot to secure it from the beginning of the flight. The simple fact is that we don’t have the full story. We have a good faith observation of one passenger, which is great, but not even close to the full story.
That was an absolutely classy follow-wp, Matthew. Thanks.
Thank you!
Not at all defending the pilots decision on that flight but it seems the issue are a result of combined factors.
First was the absurd removal of the forward lav that these 767-400’s originally had. I’m assuming that they were not delivered like this as I have never seen in my years any other 767 aircraft but the UA version on the 400 without them. Did UA remove them? And why?
But given the odd circumstance of no forward lav the easiest solution is that the pilot calls back and notifies the FA’s they were going to rotate using one of the two. He/She then blocks it calling them to come out. No different than what they do on other aircraft which typically lasts 10-20 minutes. This minimizes the time it is closed which, with only one other useable toilet on that aircraft (and PE passengers also coming forward to use it as it’s right in front of them) the problem is minimized in having an aircraft that is already ill-fitted to handle passenger usage.
Bottom line is that UA’s 767-400’s are the problem. Pilots need to recognize that and be more aware of passengers needs given that problem. Or tell management they need to do something about it (move these aircraft to domestic operations or install a forward toilet).
Have flown tens of thousands of miles around the world with many different airlines for pleasure and work.
Never have I had an issue with lav access on any airline. Some waiting but that happens at all public facilities.
If you have an emergency ask the FA for assistance.
Enjoy your next flight.
I spent decades at AA as a line mechanic. If the lav is locked out by maintenance it is REQUIRED that there be an into placard placed on the outside, it a MEL action. In my years working live trips I can attest that 95% of airline pilots are arrogant, self important dicks.
I wonder if the problem is as much with the FAs as they are with entitled pilots. The work to ensure the the toilet is available to the pilot when they need it lies with the FAs. If they find it cumbersome to vacate/lock/unlock toilet multiple times during pilot rotation in a flight, they may just decide to lock it for the entire flight. The pilot isn’t likely going to overrule that practice.
Oh no Gary do not even go there trying to blame the flight attendants!!!!!!! flight attendants are now working short crew 90% of the time on contracts that are 5 years out of date….just don’t.
The most common reason a bathroom would be locked for an entire flight is that is is inoperative for some reason. Most commonly a water valve leak that requires maintenance to shut off the water to that bathroom. It’s not that uncommon and not a conspiracy, just inconvenient when it’s the one you want to use.
Try to fully read the post. As well the original. It can help you see that this was not the case.
Blame the carriers who keep ordering these planes that are so poorly designed in the interior for
more shitty tiny seats, lousy galley and work stations, zero egress for crew to pass over to complete duties and less lavs than i have ever seen in my 34 years of flying!!! all about making it harder for the flight attendants to work with less help and more pax!!! blame the greed of corporate America…Continental pilots were the best United has perpetuated this behavior since the merger!! try feeding these entitles babies with their multiple choice of meals and special treatment.
Hello Joe Blow, There was no merger; United bought Continental. It was publicly called a merger of equals so that there would be no hurts feelings. The United CEO had “to go” because he was so toxic to United employees. He had convinced the bankruptcy court to allow United to default on its’ pensions. Back then I frequently heard that “United was ruining Continental,” but the truth was that the combined airline was being run by former Continental management and in the beginning they almost run United Airlines into the ground. As for those 767-400 aircraft with the word United freshly painted on them, these were Continental airplanes. Have a very pleasant day.
Matthew Klint is now on ALPA’s top ten most wanted to power trip offload list.
Information leading to a power trip offloading of Matthew will be waived membership dues for the next year.
“A new video game system with the latest hits sounds like fun. Put your money towards that from the saving the dues to the union.” All by using the legal power trip rights you already have.
Why does United pilots lock the lavatory to themselves the whole flight.
Because they’re full of sh*t.
But don’t worry in a decade one of them will be obsolete. Hopefully soon after that, both will.
I can’t imagine anyone flying two million miles on Untied without realizing the airline has an anti-customer culture. I quit flying Untied almost 25 years ago. I’m regularly reminded how good that decision was whenever I read articles like this.
In 35 years as an AA pilot, mostly international, I’ve never seen a lav blocked for crew only, unless maintenance required it. On rest breaks, I have always walked to the tail to stretch my legs and chat, never seen this. As captain, I’ve jumped though hoops to get a broken lav fixed on a long flight. I’ve had conversations with other pilots and FA about not reducing lav capacity for passengers, we all seem to agree. It is a terrible shame if this story is true. Most of my fellow employees do try to make flying a good experience, with few very memorable exceptions.
This is standard procedure for when someone dies on a flight. They are moved into a lavatory, the lavatory is locked, and the crew tries to keep it as quiet as possible. Once all passengers have deplaned, the deceased is removed from the lavatory as discreetly as possible.
Could it be that the FA forgot to unlock it? Did your friend ask anyone about it? Was the lavatory operational? There are so many other reason aside from pilots asking it to be locked which in my experience, they never really care about it as long as it is available when they need it.
I linked to the original story. He asked twice.
For guys, this is an easy fix. Piss in an empty water bottle discreetly underneath a blanket and leave it behind. Sooner or later, when enough are found left behind, the airline will get the point to unlock, repair, or add additional lavatories.
I’m a United pilot. I don’t fly the 767-400. It’s the first time I’ve heard of the lavs being locked like that. Yes, I Believe you have the right to complain and are correct. If the pilots are needing a lav break I can see it being locked so they can get back and forth without being out of the circuit for an extended period of time. But to lock it for the entire length of the flight is wrong! Obviously, a local fleet things. We’re not all like the ones that have complained about your comments. Thanks for being through the good and bad times with us!
I think that airlines have forgotten that they need CUSTOMERS to stay in business. Instead, it seems that we are looked at as hassles, bothers and ridiculous “passengers” vs “paying customers”. So, instead of trying to make OUR lives easier, they make flying as difficult as possible. Restricting EVERYTHING unless you pay… so I fully expect that bathrooms will have a charge soon…. $1/flush…. payable by your “card on file”. That’ll lessen the appeal for people to actually USE the bathroom and the whole ordeal will be solved! Plenty of bathrooms available for the pilots and plenty of wet seats. Should we pull out the life vests, then?
We have been loyal United flyers for several years now, but we are getting alarmed at United’s repeated near-misses on Boeing aircraft. We believe it’s simply a matter of time before there’s a disaster on one of these planes. We urge you to sacrifice profits for safety until you as a company have resolved the many problems inherent in flying Boeing aircraft. Until then, we will be looking for alternatives to Boeing jets when we fly. And if there is a disaster on a United jet, there will be absolutely no excuses accepted – United has had enough warning about the dangers of these jets.