I wish this was a joke, but it appears that United Airlines is harshly cracking down on those who exploit so-called “hidden city” ticketing to save on ticket prices. Let’s understand how realistic the threat is.
Briefly, United (and all carriers) often charge a premium for nonstop flights. For example, a flight from Los Angeles to Orlando via Chicago may often turn out cheaper than purchasing just the same Los Angeles to Chicago flight alone:
LA to Chicago to Orlando: $120
LA to Chicago (same flight): $171
Examples like the above can be found for every airline.
This comes with all sorts of risk. You cannot check bags. You also cannot book a return flight. Furthermore, if something goes wrong like a delay or cancellation, airlines will get you to your “final” destination, not the intermediate point that is really your destination.
Although by no means illegal, taking advantage of loopholes like this contravenes the “Contract of Carriage” you “agree” to whenever you book an airline ticket (of course, on a take-it-or-leave-it basis).
It appears, with United at least, those who have taken advantage of this too often are receiving letters from United’s Corporate Security office. No Mas Coach shared a letter received by one of his friends:
RE: Notice of Claim Pertaining to Point Beyond Ticketing and Demand for Reimbursement
Dear [ name removed ],
It has come to United Airlines’ attention that on multiple occasions you have violated the “Prohibited Practices” outlined in Rule 6 of United’s Contract of Carriage.
United identified 38 instances since January of 2016 where you engaged in “Point Beyond Ticketing,” which is the unauthorized purchase of a ticket to a destination more distant than your actual destination. As shown below, the last segment of each ticket was not used. By including the additional segment, you were able to purchase your ticket at a lower fare. Please note that no irregular operations were involved in these itineraries to prevent you from making the connecting flight…
[ United then laid out every instance with a numerical amount of the difference between the price between the nonstop itinerary to the intermediate point and the itinerary booked ]
Such conduct constitutes fraud and a violation of Rule 6 of United’s Contract of Carriage. Accordingly, United demands that you cease and desist these unauthorized practices immediately and that you reimburse United in the amount of $3,236.76 which represents the difference between the cost of the tickets that you purchased and the cost of the travel taken, within 10 business day of receipt of this letter.
Please remit payment directly to me via credit card or a check made out to “United Airlines, Inc.” and send to:
United Airlines, Inc.
233 S. Wacker 28th floor
Chicago, IL 60606If you do not make the requested payment, United Airlines reserves its right to take further action, including submitting United’s claim to an outside collection agency, terminating your MileagePlus membership and/or refusing to transport you on future flights in accordance with Rule 21 of the Contract of Carriage. If you have questions regarding this letter, feel free to contact me via [redacted].
Sincerely,
Corporate Security
United Airlines
38 instances is quite a lot, but put that aside for a moment. United is threatening to send this bill to a collections agency! Like View from the Wing, I consider this is a hollow threat. This isn’t like skipping out on your cable bill that you agreed to pay. Rather, this passenger has already paid in full for the ticket itineraries he purchased.
The whole concept of charging more for A + B than A alone strikes most as counterintuitive, including me. I certainly understand why United charges a premium for A alone if it is a nonstop flight. But if someone is clever enough to save some money by tacking on B and willing to take the attendant risks of doing so, more power to them.
CONCLUSION
I think United will lose and be liable for damages far beyond $3,236.76 if they send this man’s “bill” to collections and damage his credit score.
But I also know that I’ll never book hidden city ticketing for myself on United. It’s simply not worth the risk of forfeiting my MillionMiler status. United does not have viable legal recourse to go after those who engage in hidden city ticketing, but it certainly does have the right to terminate the MileagePlus accounts of those who do.
I think the bigger risk here is certainly a cancellation of the MP account which is within their right to do.
It does have the legal right to sue those who practice hidden city ticketing. The difficulty is in proving that this is what was intended. The terms and conditions under which a ticket is sold make it explicit that the passenger is intending to fly the route as ticketed. If the passenger doesn’t fly that route as ticketed, then UA would have to prove that the passenger did not intend, at the time of purchase, to do so.
This is quite different from simply missing a flight – there can be all sorts of reasons why flights are missed, so the occasional event will be impossible to prove. But a pattern should be easy to prove. And, if it is proven, then the passenger has attempted to defraud UA.
You’re crazy. Anyone has a right to sue anyone… That doesn’t mean the suit has merit. Not only will UA not sure, but if they did they would certainly lose… both in court of law and court of public opinion. In fact, you will notice that UA doesn’t mention a lawsuit. Know why? Because it is illegal in an attempt to collect a debt to threaten legal action that you don’t intend to follow through on. That’s a fact, look it up. If they threaten to sue and didn’t actually mean it they would be on the hook for thousands in damages.
Additionally the airline will need to prove that the seat that that person didn’t use was not given to somebody else. if the seat did not fly empty than they actually benefited from them doing this and their case will go down the toilet. It’s just like when you break a lease on an apartment soon as they refill the apartment your liability goes away.
pretty funny stuff coming from the airline that cancelled that my return from Europe claiming that I had “missed” a segment of my outbound itinerary (when in fact it was an Amtrak codeshare segment) (and don’t worry, I got them to reinstate it after 30 minutes of “friendly banter” at the check-in counter)
That’s the way it works for any airline. If you don’t take a segment everything that comes after is canceled.
But i did take the segment.
At least they’re giving an out to keep the account active
You apparently didn’t see my comment on that blog. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
“UA did not lose in court. There was no judgment or settlement. The case was dismissed without prejudice due to improper venue. They had the option to refile in skiplagged’s district and chose not too. https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2015/05/04/united-skiplagged-lawsuit-federal/26864961/“
Thank you. I learned something new.
Good. The passenger breached the contract, and they’ll be held liable for damages. If UA can prove intent (and given the number of occurrences, that shouldn’t be difficult) it’ll be interesting to what they’ll get.
I’m not sure how this is “scary” unless one is in the habit of forming contracts they intend to breach.
How does United establish damages for using less fuel? Breach of contract yes, damages is another matter.
You’re joking, right? In this situation Product A is offered for $X and Product B is offered for $Y. If you have a contract for A, but actually take B from United, you’re liable for $Y-$X.
I get what you are saying, but law being so technical that still doesn’t constitute as suffering “damage” clearly. It will be interesting to see what happens once a case of this sort makes it to the court
Surprisingly, I did in fact manage to take remedies and know how damages work.
UA is biting their own hand that feeds the public with creative ticketing to account for every possible revenue generation while skiplagging is taking legal advantage of the stopover as the fungal design soon. Boo boo isn’t worth UAs strong arm tactics as the court dismissed the case. UA created ticketing, not fliers taking advantage of ticketing.
Of course anyone with mileage points are subject to losing points since it is administered by each airline. Let’s just call this another way of gaming the system where it’s not illegal to take advantage of lower ticket prices. After all, the ticket price was paid in full. If a flier decided to deplane at the stopover, he/she isn’t forced to continue to the destination……
Yes, but 38 times ? I’d be more impressed if United canned his MPLus account for good or take back his mileage accrual. Who would be stupid enough to put their mileage number in a reservation that they are gaming? Mileage number or not, it’s still shenanigans.
1.) Hidden-city travel seems like a good behavior to reduce carbon output. Good for the environment!
2.) “Please remit payment directly to me via credit card or a check made out to “United Airlines, Inc.” and send to”
“directly to me” — really?
This line makes it sound like a scam. United is so unprofessional it makes my head hurt…
Actually it increases carbon output. You are blocking a seat on a leg of the flight that will remain unoccupied. Any unoccupied seat on a flight is a waste of fuel (it should have gone to a person who actually needed to fly).
Trust me… UA would have no problem finding a butt for said empty seat. At the very least, there’s always a standby/non-rev ready to jump on.
Take offs burn huge amounts of fuel. Making a passenger take 2 flights instead of one is pure greed Let alone the thousands of extra flights made to carry less passengers to unneeded destinations.
38 times? Seems like a pretty egregious case to me. I guess the way I look at it is, UA is giving him an out to essentially “buy” whatever points and status he has for $3,236.76. Maybe that’s a good deal, maybe it isn’t.
I agree the collection agency threat is probably an empty one, though. My guess is they’re just trying to scare him into paying (because let’s face it, plenty of folks fall for it). If he doesn’t want his miles, he could probably take a page from the old computer game Civilization and ignore their feeble threats.
Agree 100%. There is zero danger for anyone who does this as a once off or even a few times a year. 38x over 2 years – that is 38 no shows – that sets off alarm bells from a security perspective. Pretty stupid on customer’s part.
Personally I never do this myself as my leisure travel doesn’t normally lend itself to these types of discounts.
I have to agree with Anthony on point two. A corporation would never request a check be made out to an individual. Scam Alert?
This seems like a clear case of extortion. Demanding payment without a contractual commitment and making threats of dire consequences if payment is not made. I would file a complaint with a law agency of this was sent to me.
How easy is it to find the terms of the contract of carriage before booking your ticket? I have never looked, but I expect it is extremely hard. The contract of carriage is not a contract entered into by two parties with similar negotiating power. It is a contract the terms of which are enforced by government fiat.
It seems to me that as long as the government continues to force contract terms on passengers, competitive forces will not lead Airlines to treating their passengers better from a contractual point of view.
There’s a clear link on the purchase page (I agree to…). Otherwise just a few clicks or a quick search will find you the pdf.
I think it would be funny if UA could find a pattern to some of these and start unilaterally re-routing ppl on the day of departure over other hubs or offering direct flights where they can.
And I think this would UA’s prerogative to do.
Plus I bet there is somewhere in very small print their right to bill you for all legal fees incurred in their attempts to collect. Yes I’m not a frequent traveler who spends inordinate time flying, so I don’t really have any skin in this game but dude, what u do by not using the last leg of the journey so as to beat the airline out of revenue is, in my eyes , fraudulent.
It is illegal. It is strictly forbidden in the agreement of carriage, which by all means is a legal document. The airline have the right to pursue legal action against you if you use these tricks. They were just to lazy to do so in the past.
It’s not illegal. This is a contractual dispute, not a dispute of law.
Poop
Given that the price of a ticket can vary by day and even during a given day, how can they quantify damages? I do not believe they can definitively identify the exact price of the alternate flight at the time you ticket the other flight. I simply don’t believe it, I know too much about how this type of pricing system works. Not that a court would care, courts are only interested in facilitating justice for the established party (United) and not Joe Blow.
Easy, they know when you purchased it and can do same day comparison for the nonstop flight.
I think that that’s wonderful they’re cracking down in the fraud
You do, eh? A wonderful thing? do the Flyers doing this somehow hurt you? Do you think that the airlines are going to somehow pass the savings onto you? Because the answer to both is no.
I’ve asked NoMasCoach to post an image of the letter, with only PII redacted. Flight dates, flight paths, and costs involved should be listed to give us a full picture.
His heavy-handed redacting, coupled with lots of irrelevant items within his article, makes me skeptical of of whether he actually has a grievance to air or an axe to grind via sensational “journalism”.
If he made this up, his credibility is finished. But I don’t think he did. We know that United has gone after people before and went after Skiplagged.
Love it.
Is United kidding? So is it the passengers fault that they found a cheaper price?
Cheaper price by breaking the rules you mean??
I am always curious about why airlines would spend time chasing customers who use hidden-city ticketing.
Although the risk during irrops and inability to check luggage means I rarely use this method, I disagree this is ‘fraudulent’ behaviour towards the airline. A seat has been bought and paid for on each leg, and it’s the passenger’s prerogative to decide whether to use it or not. Taking advantage of a competitive pricing structure into certain cities and choosing not to use every leg of a ticketed journey is not the same as stealing from an airline and should not be equated to that as certain commenters on here seem to imply. It’s also a slippery slope for the airline to try and guess the intent of each passenger at the time of purchasing a ticket.
Having said that, 38 occasions in under 3 years is an inordinate amount and it’s hardly surprising that United picked up on this case.
Stay away from United airlines they always find a fix to get into. Like leggings
And for what it’s worth different airlines seem to take radically different attitudes towards this. I once had a telephone agent at BA compliment me for realising how much cheaper it was to book a round trip paid business-class itin from a European city (as opposed to London) and literally point out to me that if I scheduled an overnight stop at LHR I could just drop the last leg and and end my journey in London.
Wouldn’t it be fraud if their miles awarded were based on the longer trip the passenger had no intention of flying?
Miles are only awarded based upon segments flown.
What about people booking on skiplagged? What are the consequences? How did they win the United battle?
They didn’t really win, but United declined to pursue the case further after it was dismissed without prejudice for lack of proper venue.
United is acting disgraceful
“United is acting disgraceful”
In other news water is wet.
I have to wonder how this would play out if resident in parts of Europe and buying the UA tickets via a German website. It’s not like all the elements of UA’s contract of carriage are legal everywhere — they aren’t — and that could provide a window into how it may be possible to legally buy tickets with throwaway ticketing in mind.
I can imagine that the empty seat could have been filled with standby or overbooked customers when the original passenger doesn’t show. There’s no proof the seat(s) remained empty. United is being petty & greedy. I wouldn’t fly then if I didn’t have to.
Of course there is proof, the person who originally booked the route would be listed as a no-show.
This is hardly new. United was enforcing its rule about this 20 years ago. It’s just that fully automated ticketing and cross referenced check in makes it possible with more thoroughness.
I wish so-called “travel experts” would learn what a “hidden city” is.
This ain’t it.
There comes the freaking Airlines again trying to rip off customers. The government is corrupted so they’re in favor of the airlines, because of all the money they receive from them and of course the candidates…
The price of the tickets is not fixed, therefore you can buy the same ticket for 100 bucks and somebody else may pay 200.
How the hell can they come back 1 month/year later and said they lost money and or passenger damaged their business?
Once you bought the ticket you can do whatever the hell you want with it. If you missed the flight, would they reimburse it to you? When you buy it, most of time you’re done, you have no rights to get reimbursed.
Government should regulate this policies better and protect the consumers that on daily basis are ripped off by airlines.
By the way, who is “me” in that paragraph? Sounds like a scam to say the least.
Good for UNITED!!! Some people just don’t like rules/guidelines. The policy is clearly stated, and people who consciously disregard the rules. SO… Boohoo pay the consequences!!!! I hope they (United) do send offenders to collections. These are the same people who show up to the gate five minutes before the flight departs and hold up everything.
This guy sounds like he has a ton of friends.
What a joke, I will never fly United if there are other options. United is a pos scam company whose only goal is to rip off people.
Really- You rationalize this “Product A is offered for $X and Product B is offered for $Y. If you have a contract for A, but actually take B from United, you’re liable for $Y-$X.” In favor of UA?
So if a store offers 2 for apples for 1$ while a single apple is 2$. And a customer wants a single apple and buys 2 for 1$ and throws away the 2nd apple, he is committing fraud? I like how obedient the sheep are. Rules of carriage were not designed for this. Yes the seat was potentially wasted but if you get to your gate 1 min late and you seat was already given to someone else, would you not want to the “rules of carriage” to protect you from that instead of revolving around making sure profits are maximized regardless of shady pricing tactics. Can someone explain why A+B is less than A to begin with?
I hope they go bankrupt. All the major airlines are a disgrace.
Damn right. If you can’t agree to the rules of the ticket you purchased then drive. If you want an airline where every passenger does whatever they want start your own. I’m so tired of entitled people.
Based on United’s logic if you buy a loaf of bread the store can charge you for not eating the whole loaf. There is nothing legally or morally that says you must consum every part of a product you purchase. If you only want to use half a ticket United has no right to expect you to use the whole ticket. It doesn’t hurt United one bit if you take advantage of a loophole they created.
Mighty ironic, considering that this is the same airline that dragged a paying passenger from his seat, injuring him in the process, to give his seat to someone else because they overbooked the flight.
It may not be illegal, but one could argue the ethics of it from both sides. In any case, it’s United right to go after people who they feel are abusing the system via loopholes. And yes, 38 times in the span if a few years is definitely abusing the system.
Can’t wait for them to start going after people who book cheaper round-trip tickets but only use the first leg of the trip…
My largest problem with this is the reverse is not true in that untied will not give you a refund of ticket price of they do not live up to the contract and put you on a larger flight.
I have had that happen a few times and requested the date difference as a refund and all I got after hours of argue was a voucher for part of the difference.
Other airlines are even more restrictive. It is not unusual that you cannot cancel at all, only rebook to another date in the same class, and have to do so before your original flight. I once ate the loss on a TATL business class ticket on another *A airline due to a circumstances out of my control where I also could not figure out another date that quickly. What was my incentive? To go ahead and check in, just not show up, and hope for an IRROPs. I’m guessing the seat went out empty or someone got an upgrade. But no point in my cancelling in advance and letting them resell it.
The rules are mostly in the airline’s favor, so I don’t feel particularly sorry for them over hidden city ticketing and the like.
Its no joke. United does provide you the letter and they will go back ten years if need be. Skiplagged warns you to not use your frequent miles account for this. They also send it to collections, but you can easily dispute it because there was no “credit” given. And the bureaus have removed to charge. A person would be foolish to pay UA. While I get its against their contract of carriage…at this point if they want to discourage it, they should merely ban people from flying their planes. I have no problem using this tact, but I do not add it to my frequent flyer account. I would rather get the low cost vs. the low cost and the free miles.
Funny how this airline that kills dogs and forces elderly travelers out of planes with physical force claims to be a victim the solution is for United to only offer direct flights
I’ve never done hidden city, but have thought about the similar concept of purchasing RT when cheaper than OW and then throwing away the return leg. In any event, I can’t imagine doing that 38 times without some consequences.
We all know that all airlines try to discourage hidden city ticketing. Once or twice I doubt they will even notice. I suspect they just think they cannot ignore this when someone does it 38 times. And even if they do not really pursue the lost revenue (I agree that a court win for the airline is unlikely), sending out letters to repeat offenders like this is not really about collecting the $3K – it is about discouraging the recipient and others who read about this from doing it. And here it is on Live and Let’s Fly. Publicization accomplished.
United is the most unprofessional airline outthere I hope they go bankrupt soon or change leaders who can turn United into a respectable organization
According to your letter written about this matter. The passenger alerted (unintentionally) United to this practice they were engaging in by asking for REIMBURSEMENT of monies on the unflown leg of the flight.
If he did that, he deserved to be shutdown.
They can’t even prove the shitbag of a president is a traitor even though he has said so himself because no one can prove he is not insane as well.
Good luck trying to prove someone was trying to defraud.
“Please remit payment directly to me via credit card or a check made out to United Airlines, Inc.”
This email almost sounds fake like a phishing email lol. They asked to make the payment to “me”
Question —did UA fill the seat? If they did, didn’t they get paid twice for the same seat? Once by the person who purchased the initial ticket, and once by the person who was an overbook or standby?
Boom. Exactly right.
Why did it matter? UA had a contract with A. A intentionally violated the contract repeatedly. UA have full legal rights to pursue claim. Whether UA can limit its damages by re selling the seat, that is a different legal construction.
In the eyes of the law, penalty against A not only to cover damage suffered by UA. Rather, so that in the next available time, nobody would do what A did.
All in all, I wonder how many commenters here really know, studied, and practising law. Or maybe all just a bunch of entitled speakeasy kind of keyboard warrior? Hahahaha
It does matter because UA can show no discernible damage on the basis of this so-called breach.
Just because I can recoup some profit from damages done to me, or I can limit my damage doesn’t mean the damage is null and void. Its a different and separate legal construction.
Another stupid example: you fiddle with your phone while driving, and crash into my bentley damaging it. Just because I have insurance to repair, doesn’t mean you walk away scoot free. The act of negligence was done on your part. As simple as that….
The situations are not analogous.
Yeah… with that comment I can be assured that you’ve never “really know, studied, and practising law” either. By the way, nice grammar and spelling, Mr. James, Esq.
Those situations are not even remotely comparable. You’re either being ridiculous on purpose, or you’re an idiot. Not sure.
Rules are fine as long as they don’t apply to me…..
That is the mindset these days .
Illogical rules should be questioned.
Several results could answer such question. Maybe the rule is wrong? Maybe the understanding is wrong? Is questioning giving the right to disobey?