Sara Nelson, President of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, is often called the world’s most powerful flight attendant. Her reaction to the Supreme Court decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization overturning the constitutional right to abortion is hardly surprising, but merits consideration.
Flight Attendant Sara Nelson Condemns Supreme Court Abortion Decision
Nelson embraces a Marxist worldview and posits left-wing dogma via her powerful platform as the world’s most powerful flight attendant. It comes as no surprise that she is against the Dobbs decision, for she has been warning about it for weeks.
But I found her statement quite clarifying in explaining what she views as the stakes of the issue. This helps to explain why many flight attendants, in particular, care about the legality and availability of abortion.
“The Constitutional right affirmed by the Court in 1973 to safe access and the legal right to an abortion was transformational for women’s rights and our jobs. Cabin crew fought executives who exploited our sexuality and pushed gender inequality to undermine the dignity of our work and push the value of our labor into their own pockets. We organized to define our careers, keep our personal choices as our own, and lift up our role in saving lives as aviation’s first responders.
“Choice and self-determination are at the foundation of why we formed our union 75 years ago. In the earliest days of commercial aviation, we were allowed few choices in the workplace. Every part of our bodies and our lives were dictated by management. Airlines only hired white, single, childless women under age 32 who met specific height, weight, and male defined appearance standards. Even if you met those “standards,” getting pregnant, having a baby, choosing to marry or gaining a few pounds meant giving up your job and handing in your wings. Our first demands as a union were seniority-based scheduling, to stop managers from using schedules to coerce us to choose between sexual exploitation and earning a living.
“Today anyone with the heart of a Flight Attendant can choose this career, and through our unions we have a voice and legal standing on the job to protect our rights.
“Not everyone will make the same choices, and AFA’s members hold a wide range of personal beliefs about the topic of abortion. But the right for each of us to make our own choices about our jobs, our bodies, and our futures is fundamental. That includes the right to protect safe, legal options to anyone who seeks reproductive healthcare. As union members, we understand democracy in our workplaces and in our public square. Americans overwhelmingly support safe, legal abortion. This is not just a radical assault on our rights and settled law, it is an attack against the majority of this country and the ideals upon which it was founded.
“The Justices will not stop here. They will work to strip Americans of other freedoms we have fought for. They will strip the freedom to marry from our LGBTQ colleagues and neighbors. They will strip away our rights to birth control. They have already gutted the right to vote, and our right to fair elections free of corporate influence. Our union will continue fighting for equality and freedom for all.
“We call on airline management to stand with us and for equality, anti-discrimination, and mutual respect. It is not enough that corporations espouse these principles as core to their missions – now is the time to demonstrate this commitment to their employees and passengers. This is about our safety and our freedom. We cannot work if we are not safe.”
Whatever your views on abortion, I think this letter clearly articulates why the issue is so important to flight attendants. Furthermore, I would have likely dismissed the “Justices will not stop here…” warning, but in light of Justice Thomas’s concurring opinion in Dobbs, which said the Court should next undo protection for birth control and gay marriage, her warning is not without basis.
I do want to focus on one passage, in particular.
“As union members, we understand democracy in our workplaces and in our public square. Americans overwhelmingly support safe, legal abortion. This is not just a radical assault on our rights and settled law, it is an attack against the majority of this country and the ideals upon which it was founded.”
I can’t help but to point out that Americans (and one prominent Frenchman) actually seem quite conflicted about abortion. You ask if they support Roe and the majority say yes. You ask if they support abortion in most circumstances, and most say yes. But when you get specific, more Americans support an abortion ban at 15 weeks than oppose it. The Mississippi law the Supreme Court upheld banned abortion at 15 weeks.
And President Emmanuel Macron of France took the unusual step of issuing the following tweet:
Abortion is a fundamental right for all women. It must be protected. I wish to express my solidarity with the women whose liberties are being undermined by the Supreme Court of the United States.
— Emmanuel Macron (@EmmanuelMacron) June 24, 2022
But in France abortion is only protected until the 14th week (and that represents a 2022 change to the law, which previously limited abortions after 12 weeks). The Mississippi law in question banned the procedure at 15 weeks. To be charitable, I suppose Macron was opining on the idea that abortion will become illegal and unavailable in many states as a result of this ruling. Still, Macron opposed raising the abortion limit from 12 weeks to 14 weeks, arguing “extended time limits are not neutral in terms of a woman’s trauma.” Abortion was made legal by French lawmakers in 1975, not via judicial fiat.
All that to say, if I were Nelson, I wouldn’t necessarily use majoritarian language or “settled law” to defend abortion, because viewpoints can change and do change. If abortion is a fundamental right, then precedent or the feelings of the majority do not matter: nether should be dispositive in determining the issue.
CONCLUSION
Why so much abortion coverage on Live and Let’s Fly? Because it is a huge issue that impacts millions, including hundreds of thousands in the aviation industry. Travel and the law are intertwined and this issue represents a seminal change in U.S. law. For Sara Nelson, her opposition to the Dobbs decision was not surprising, but her explanation concerning the high stakes of the decision sums up the concerns of flight attendants and invites further discussion.
image: @FlyingWithSara / Twitter
where were all these people during the vax mandates / mask mandates?
quid pro quo.
they deserve it…I’m technically pro-choice (No skin in the game)…but really – these pro-choice folks deserve to have their rights taken away.
You’re about as pro-choice as Clarence Thomas.
Clarence Thomas is pro-choice for the legislatures elected by the people. Why do you hate democracy, Aaron?
All polls are inherently selective. Unless you conduct your poll like a census, you cannot confidently declare what “the majority” wants without a vote.
The bigger issue is that the Supreme Court does not and should not care about what the majority wants. Congress is the democratic branch of government, given the mandate to represent the will of the people. The judiciary exists to apply the law, and in particular the Constitution, to the matter set before it. This sometimes means making very unpopular opinions because it is what the law/Constitution demands. Returning the question of abortion law to the states was the decision of the court precisely because they found no “right to abortion” in the Constitution. It now becomes a democratic issue in which the people, via their elected representatives, will decide abortion policy in their state. That is the way the system was designed to work.
The Court’s recent ruling on a New York state gun law belies all of what you said.
The difference is the Constitution allows the right to bear arms, it does not guarantee abortions. Yes, that word did not exist then and as a result the SC ruled correctly it is not a federal and Constitutional “Right”.
To expand on what Scott said, the states may not infringe upon rights explicitly acknowledged in the Constitution. This is why Kansas could ban mosques or Iowa could censor newspapers (these are fictional examples). In two separate opinions, the Supreme Court found that the Constitution did protect the right to own and carry firearms (preventing NY from infringement of this right) while it did not in any way speak to a right to abortion (thus allowing MS to regulate it as they see fit). These are in no way contradictory regardless of how you feel about gun ownership or abortion.
I haven’t seen the democrats this mad since yesterday.
Ronald Reagan: With regard to the freedom of the individual for choice with regard to abortion, there is one individual who is not being considered at all, and that is the one who is being aborted. *And I have noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.* Make no mistake, abortion-on-demand is not a right granted by the Constitution. No serious scholar, including one disposed to agree with the Court’s result, has argued that the framers of the Constitution intended to create such a right.
As far as Ms. Nelson — those crying today about “my body, my choice” because they’re big mad that they might not be able to kill babies on demand, are the same radicals who wanted a forced nationwide covid vaccine mandate on all Americans to be able to get a job & provide for your family.
@ECH what you really espouse in anti-Democratic. The majority supported vaccine mandates and most support abortion rights up to say 15 weeks. A President who didn’t win the popular vote nominated three Supreme Court justices who were nominated by a Senate elected by a minority of the population. Oh, and the Senate Republican’s who didn’t have 60 votes to pass a nomination, changed the filibuster rules to make it possible.
You can spout out whatever garbage you can about a Republic vs a democracy but the movement is towards pure democracy. Your radical views will eventually lead to civil unrest and eventually I fear the breakup of this country. I hope, but if I’m right then you wrong.
I meant to write confirmed not nominated with regards to the Senate in my above post.
The majority also were in favor of a ban on gay marriage. It was even voted on and passed in the bluest of states. So don’t ckm here and cry about what the “majority want” because thing like the “don’t say gay bill”, border security and voter ID laws have 2/3 majority support from the American people.
Also Sara Nelson is a loud mouthed idiot. We already knew that
That vote happened over a decade ago and could probably have a different result if voted on today.
From a strictly moral basis, it should not be allowed for a majority to vote the human or civil rights away of groups they don’t like.
As far as civil unrest, the Department of Homeland Security has been communicating with Catholic Churches and pregnancy centers, telling them to be prepared for a “Night of Rage” by pro-abortion groups pledging “extreme violence” the night of the Dobbs decision.
Are Adam Schiff and Liz Cheney aware? Is the Select Committee going to attend those insurrections live? Can they bring their production manager from ABC, and their teleprompters? Or are they busy already raiding the homes of those on Twitter calling to burn down the Supreme Court building? Why does the left only care about certain violence but not when it’s coming from their own side? See: Summer of love riots.
Who exactly is moving towards a true democracy as you call it, aside from the Marxist’s? you are entitled to your opinion if you hate the framers design of the Constitution and the Electoral College, but I’m fine with it, as are all independents and conservatives that I know. Key phrase: that I know. I don’t need fake polls and rigged voting machines to tell me what to believe. Nor do I care if Trump won the popular vote. We don’t elect presidents based upon the popular vote and I’m sure as hell glad massive blue population centers are not deciding elections. The framers were brilliant and I’m appreciative.
My views are not radical. Killing the unborn is radical. Clearly hoes are mad. Until the pro-choice crowd realizes that they can avoid 98% of abortions by making better choices, they will stay mad.
Just saying as a current gynecologist at a top-10 medical school in the US, a cell is considered a living organism, or a living thing and cells are the building blocks of life. So, killing a cell is basically killing a life in terms of bioethics.
Also, going to put this out there, there are plenty of ways to prevent abortions, which include using protection, medication, contraceptives, and the most effective one is not having intercourse at all. If you don’t choose to have intercourse in the first place, you won’t need to worry about pregnancy or abortions from the start.
100 percent. when a pregnant mother is murdered, it’s a double homicide. when we find bacteria on some planet, it’s life. but the fetus? not life. the OnlyFans generation clearly understood the injection assignment when it came to vaccines, but not when it comes to sperm.
Which top 10 school?
And what about all of the gynecologist who disagree with you?
Also, why are women who are raped not given an exception to have an abortion?
Rape victims don’t choose to have sex. Ps. Funny how you can’t even spell the name of your claimed profession correctly.
What civil unrest and insurrections?
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1540662679697629186
https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1540547226879102980
https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1540532729674186752
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1540661723740471298
https://twitter.com/Anonymousones11/status/1540516822562181121
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1540543869674291205
I’m sure they are just getting started for the weekend.
First of all, the majority of women who have abortions are married, so this isn’t about “hoes” (which is incredibly sexist and completely undermines anything you have to say). Second, by criminalizing abortion, uninformed and untrained legislators (who believe myths about reproductive science like ectopic pregnancies can be reimplanted in the uterus) are making it risky for doctors to perform abortion adjacent procedures necessary to save the lives of actual living human beings.
For example, there are many circumstances where a fetus might still have a heartbeat, but doctors have determined that the fetus is “incompatible with life” (a medical term which means 0% chance of survival). Because having a dying fetus in the womb is risky for women and the risk of serious complications or death increases every minute longer the fetus stays in there, most doctors would recommend aborting the fetus and removing it before anything goes wrong. Now doctors are going to be afraid to remove the fetus until its “heart” stops beating because a court (once again of non-medically trained judges) could find them guilty of abortion, even though there was no chance the fetus would survive in or out of the womb. Meanwhile women will die of sepsis waiting for the fetus to die on its own. This happens more often than you think, in fact its the reason why Ireland recently voted to allow abortions.
The point is that there are so many more reasons than women be hoes women choose or need to have an abortion. As I mentioned married women get a majority of the abortions in this country, many of whom already have children. Most commonly, they worry that they and their spouse don’t have the financial resources to afford another child and want to protect the kids they already have. The point is, you don’t have the right to judge them and you don’t have the right to replace the judgment of trained medical professionals with your own.
Hoes be mad is what many people are saying in the younger generations. And there is much truth in it. Again, you’re trusting numbers and polls that state married women have the most abortions. But we don’t really know that for sure. I’m not sure we can trust anything to do with PP. Are are really just supposed to trust their numbers with all of the shadiness and evil that surrounds them? Come on, man.
While judgement and family planning are real issues, the bottom line is that abortion is not a constitutional right. Roe was decided wrongly. It has now been corrected. I can’t help the brainwashing and propaganda since then, but many of us are aware of it. See: Sanger.
This is a personal responsibility, self-gratification, and restraint issue, as much as it is a privacy and medical one. There are ways to avoid pregnancy. If you don’t want to get pregnant, there are ways to avoid it. But people don’t want to hear about personality responsibility and restraint. That is the bottom line. yes, I understand rapes and valid medical issues happen.
But the constitution does not offer the right and so now it’s up to the states, as it should have been all along. This is a states rights case as much as anything else. Look, we are all adults here. I would guess that most abortions stem from unplanned pregnancies that happen due to the heat of the moment. Yes, lust is real and humans are mammals. I don’t deny that part of sexuality. But it come down to personal responsibility and restraint on self-gratification for the huge majority of cases.
There are many methods to avoid pregnancy. They just require responsible restraint of self-gratification. These methods are apparently not taught anywhere anymore.
@ ECH I don’t really give a **** about your views. Your views are why this country is so polarized. It’s why people think Trump was illegitimate but your too stupid to realize that.
My views are commonly held but you’re entitled to your opinion. Planned Parenthood was originally called The Negro Project and was founded by Sanger, a white supremacist eugenicist who believed Black babies needed to be killed to preserve the white race. The Roe ruling was a continuation of that program. speaking to the KKK she gave a eugenics approach to breeding for “the gradual suppression, elimination and eventual extinction, of defective stocks.. those human weeds which threaten the blooming of the finest flowers of American civilization”. Her words, her autobiography. So blame it all on me – that’s your opinion and your ignorance. Not mine.
My my @ECH. I have been called a lot of things but rarely ever ignorant.. I guess your arrogance is matched only by your ignorance.
It’s really not personal, Arlington. I am not trying to argue with you or insult you. However, the formation of Planned Parenthood and it’s goals are well documented. If anyone takes the time to research those goals and the individuals involved, I believe they will see why so many of us are happy that Roe was struck down.
You miss the point ECH. Our values don’t mesh so I fear we are talking past each other. Your responses are all scripted stock conservative ones. I for the record am a moderate Democrat. However, I am for democracy with a small D. The moment you started sprouting Founding Father’s and brilliance you lost me. I stopped reading. When you used the word Brandon I stopped reading. To relate to others who don’t share your views, then show some modesty in your writings..
I will work on that. Apologies. Just frustrated with the state of things like we all are.
“You can spout out whatever garbage you can about a Republic vs a democracy but the movement is towards pure democracy.”
Which would make the strikedown of RvW appropriate then. Let the states decide. Same thing with remarks about how Trump won via the Electoral college not making his SC picks valid: The Electoral College was a Constitutional Mechanism. Let the states decide.
Though this topic is out of discussion for a travel blog, but at the same time those that travel sufficiently to appreciate elite travel will tend to chat about this in lounges if we can do so in a civilized manner. My father told me that one of his working class friends back 50 years ago got stabbed in a bar fight. Hopefully, we can be more civilized in our discourse.
My take on abortion rights in general: About 20 years ago laws were passed to make someone attacking a pregnant woman and causing her fetus to be harmed to be the same as a double felony assault. A feminist at the time winked and said “It’s wrong to harm THE FETUS OF ANOTHER.” (my emphasis.)
She regarded the fetus as her chattel with rights when she desired to keep it and when she didn’t, it was nothing.
This wasn’t just in regards to, (alls caps) HER BODY, but even after birth, she proudly rationalized that the child should be used to get welfare or child-support (lest it come to harm in her custody for lack of resources)
Many of us here are parents and it’s interesting how there’s a dichotomy of situation for children: Some parents “helicopter” parent their kids and put their kids before their own interests (as it should be, but sometimes to excess) while others exploit or abuse their kids and use “parent’s rights” to claim to be victims of Child Protective Services.
I suppose with all the awful things I’ve seen people do to kids and to the world in the name of social status and self-importance, abortion is probably the least of it.
They’re not killing babies. They are aborting fetuses.
Aaron is happy to kill millions of black fetuses. The Spirit of Sanger lives on!
They’re meant for each other!
Sara Nelson has a black lives matter icon in her twitter profile.
Does she know that abortion has been used for decades as a way to genocide black people? 20 million black babies have been exterminated because of abortion.
Exactly. Margaret Sanger, the founder of planned parenthood, was a eugenicist (which is basically a Nazi) and created abortions to reduce the non-white population, yet her work is celebrated by people who claim to be “anti-racist” and “tolerant.” It’s the same thing as supporting the tenets of socialism but criticizing North Korea’s human rights violations when North Korea is a Socialist country (in 1994, they changed the country’s constitution and country structure from Communism to Socialism and are considered to be the closest thing to a pure socialist state according to current scholars). This is coming from a Black dem by the way.
What asinine nonsense about Margaret Sanger and PP. Fake news at it’s best (or worst?).
Do you even Google? NYT: Planned Parenthood in N.Y. Disavows Margaret Sanger Over Eugenics.
Ms. Sanger, a feminist icon and reproductive-rights pioneer, supported a discredited belief in improving the human race through selective breeding. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/nyregion/planned-parenthood-margaret-sanger-eugenics.html
You cannot argue with leftists who use mood affiliation instead of reason. They reject facts and hate the Constitutional system. Try mockery instead. Reveal them to be the ridiculous, hysterical hypocrites they are.
Have tried different methods but nothing seems to get through..
Er, those women chose to have abortions. Nobody forced them to as it was their choice.
So no, no genocide here.
You’re gonna be happy ain’t ya pappy. You’ll rape the kids like your masters in the southern Baptist church and then force them to carry babies to term because “it’s gods plan”. That’s one sick god you have.
WTF is AOC and Sara Nelson doing in the first photo cheek to cheek? There is a pandemic going on. Some people DIE. If they have so bad judgment, the rest of what they have to say is garbage. And FA say “we’re here for safety”. Safety to get COVID?
The unions should stay out of abortion and stick with airline related issues. Individuals can express opinions but the union should have no opinion. Otherwise, they should also express anger about the mass shooting in Norway, Taiwan being harassed by the Chinese PLA air force, the new Super Tax in Pakistan, and the flooding in India.
Picture is from 2019.
Make the pilot wear a condom on layovers, it’s not that difficult.
Or are these women unable to say “No”?
The OnlyFans generation is clearly unable to say no. I guess they weren’t paying attention in biology class. When someone injects sperm into their vagina, pregnancy is bound to happen. The pro-life crowd needs to change the phrase ‘God will not be mocked to Biology will not be mocked.
Or just mind your own business if and when a woman chooses to get an abortion, for whatever reason.
Actually “Aaron” I’m not against abortion because the majority of those killed are minorities and poor and from irresponsible women and sperm donors. So we are all going to pay in the end for this decision. It’s just another sad indicator of how lazy, irresponsible and unable to say no many women are today.
Hopefully this decision make some more responsible but I’m not counting on it. The women getting knocked up unplanned are weak and too lazy to change or make a stand with a guy they just can’t say No to.
You do know that a majority of women who have abortions are married right?
You know contraceptives are widely available, right? You know wives probably know where babies come from, right? Sorry, fetuses.
“first responders” in her statement tells me a lot however… I always thought part of the job of a flight attendant was to try and protect people from death. They even remind us that they are primarily there for our safety. I guess they are as long as you aren’t an unborn child. Most of what this Marxist union power broker does is to secure her power, and her political agenda.
You can’t be an avowed Marxist and talk about the benefits of Democracy.
The two can’t exist in the same space because Marxism is all about subjugation of the individual.
First, and I say this as someone who really couldn’t care less if a someone gets an abortion.
Second, I’d be willing to bet that a majority of people who are up in arms about this ruling have never read the original ruling, never read the opinions of all the justices, never read the opinions on the ‘overtunring’ and probably don’t understand the first thing about constitutional law or the role of the supreme court. So if you fit into the group I’m describing there, you should just keep your mouth shut because there’s no way you have any clue what you’re talking about.
As a matter of constitutional law, the court has simply let the decision up to state. There are comments here about what the ‘majority’ of Americans want. Well, the country is a conglomeration of state that the founding fathers believed should have relative independence our government + the constitution were set up to enforce this ideal. If a majority of Texans think abortions should be banned, why should they be forced to allow it just because a mjority of New Yorkers think it shouldn’t be? And vice versa, why should New York have to ban abortions just because some other state thinks they should be banned? Overturning RvW actually gives the liberal states the ability to further loosen their abortion policies while it gives the conservative states the same right to restrict or ban. Why is this concept such a difficult issue for people? The supreme court rules on constitution interpretation, not crying people on the court house steps or what’s trending on Twitter.
The real irony is the same group of liberals who are fixated Jan 6th as an act of insurrection meant to overthrow the government (you have to laugh at anything who think that was actually a possible outcome) have no problem trying to intimidate supreme court justices to rule the way they want. Does anyone else see the irony? Trying to intimidate a judge to get a ruling you want undermines the very nature of our judicial system the same way liberals claim republicans tried to use intimidation in regards to the election.
In regards to women’s rights – we all know how babies are made – if you’re that scared of getting pregnant, then don’t!!! or move to a state where you can get one, it’s one of the many freedoms you have by living here. If you don’t like it then move to one of those other countries that has really liberal abortion laws (sorry, I can’t name one – are there any?) As for the rape/incest argument – can someone tell me what percent of abortion seekers that actually is? I doubt it, but I bet it’s a very small % – so yeah, let’s base laws that govern tens & hundreds of millions of people on a very small select group.
Corporations should stay out of politics, stay in their own lanes. I hope DeSantis is the next president just so he puts these companies back in their place. I don’t want to hear United Airlines’ feelings on race or some flight attendants opinion on abortion. Do your damn jobs instead. How about focusing on flight delays and cancellations? I can’t even watch a Netflix show anymore without the first lines being how white Americans are so awful because of slavery. I have news for you, a ‘majority’ of white Americans didn’t even come to this country until after 1900 and had nothing to do with slavery. Also, we love to leave out the fact that the most brutal parts of the salve trade all took place before there was a USA for HUNDRES of years under countries like England, France, Spain, Portugal, etc…why isn’t anyone burning the Spanish flag in the streets? Why aren’t blacks going to Portugal for reparations, but instead coming after me?
The outrage over the ruling is just another reason why I turned squarely red – the liberals are the biggest group of ignorant, hypocritical idiots and want everyone to think like them, yet say they are all for inclusion of everyone’s views. They are no better than the Christian right – they are a cult of a different name.
This is all such garbage – the supreme court did us all a favor by overturning this. I can’t wait to go through an election cycle without all the screaming about the next president being able to overturn RvsW. May we can focus on issues that actually effect all of us. Getting pregnant is more often than not a product of personal choices, live with your decisions.
As an actual lawyer, I can tell you that Alito’s opinion was one of the most ahistorical, anti-constitutional, idiotic opinions with no basis in law or precedent. His sole rationale for overturning Roe is that the people who passed the 14th amendment in 1868 didn’t believe there was a right to abortion and thus the 14th Amendment doesn’t protect abortion. Those same men also didn’t think women had a right to vote or own property and they didn’t believe spousal rape was a thing. I might here also add that no one in 1868 thought that the Second Amendment guaranteed individual gun ownership for self-defense and that right only existed because Scalia decided to make it up, but that doesn’t really seem to be a problem for Alito. You can’t just overturn a precedent because you don’t like it, there has to be a significant change to the facts or the law to justify it. None of these were present in this case.
Furthermore, spare me the garbage about how it’s only giving the states the right to decide. If we let the states decide everything there would still be slaves or at least Jim Crow laws in the South and New York and California would probably have banned handguns by now.
Finally, you are an idiot if you think this will be the end of abortion being an election issue. If anything its going to be more dominant. Now that politicians have the power to ban abortions, it’s going to be a race to the bottom with conservative candidates in state elections trying to pass the cruelest abortion laws possible and on the national level, not a single Republican will get elected without vowing to pass a national ban on abortion (which SCOTUS won’t do anything about despite claiming they just wanted to “let the states decide”). Democrats are also going to be forced in a far more pro-choice position than they were previously. When Roe was in place, many Democrats didn’t have to focus that much on abortion, because it was a protected right, now that Republicans actually have the power to deny access to abortion completely, abortion is going to be at the forefront of every Democratic campaign and many who were complacent about abortion rights are suddenly going to treat it as a much more pressing issue than before.
…which will drive even more away from their party than Brandon has done for them.
Well said, @chasgoose!
I’ll assume you’re some kind of ambulance chaser and not a constitutional lawyer. States DO decide their own laws, in fact they have entire state governments which are called legislative bodies that create those laws. Courts are not legislative which means they don’t write laws. If someone wants to challenge a state law the supreme court looks at those state laws and judges them by rights guaranteed in the constitution (not public opinion). The recent NY gun ruling is a perfect example. Like the outcome or not, the supreme court felt that the right to a gun was too restricted by NYC based on language in the constitution not what protesters want. If the public wants to change the language of the constitution regarding gun they can do so through an electoral process until there are enough elected officials to do so. Until that happens I would assume it’s not actually important enough to enough people – same can be said about abortion. If it were really so important to so many Americans we’d have enough members of our legislative bodies to add an amendment guaranteeing it. They probably don’t teach that in ambulance chasing school.
Your comment about slavery still being in place if states could decide is meaningless – there is language in the constitution which specifically bans slavery in the 13th amendment. The constitution applies to everyone and in order to get that language in there, our country had to go through what’s called a legislative process. The supreme court did not abolish slavery. If the 13th amendment didn’t exists, yes states could still decide on their own. So which amendment specifically mentions a right abortion? The foundation of the United STATES is that the states should generally be self governing with certain things that apply to all states as outlined in the constitution. Answer this hypothetical – if 100% of people in California wanted abortion legal and 100% of the people in Texas didn’t (they are the two largest states) in lieu of abortion being specifically guaranteed by an amendment – how should it be handled? You don’t think states should be able to decide (even though, as previously mentioned it’s the foundation of the union) then which state should decide and how?
If a national ban on abortions does become an election issue then I guess we will see what a majority of Americans want. What if it were put to a vote and it turned out 60% of voters wanted an outright ban – would you be ok with that? We are a democracy, majority rules. I’d ask the same question of someone on the other side. Again, that’s a legislative issue. The supreme court does not rule on what a majority of people want, it rules on an interpretation of the constitution and if we want something added in, it’s done legislatively (like the abolition of slavery).
Kicking the decision back to states is exactly what the court should have done and nothing in your response seem to explain why not other than to say you disagree with Alito’s opinion for overturning the ruling.
You also were quite silent on the point of pregnancy being the result of personal decision (unlike being born black, or a woman), meaning pregnancy can be avoided if you are scared of not being able to get an abortion . We are all up in arms about an issues that is totally avoidable. Why not hold people accountable for their decisions? What if it were scientifically proven that a fetus could feel pain the equivalent of you being stabbed to death? Keep in mind that rape/incest/failed contraception of the exceptions, not the majority of abortion seekers.
I reply to a different comment about how you are totally wrong if you think that most abortions are just because slutty women can’t keep their legs closed (also what about the men in this scenario, do they have any personal responsibility to support women who will now be forced to carry babies to term?).
Also, I’m a corporate/securities lawyer who works at one of the top law firms in the country (there are very few “constitutional lawyers” out there and about 90% of them are law professors), and I can tell you that you are completely wrong again about the NY Gun case (Bruen). There is nothing in the Constitution or the Second Amendment that requires the right to individual gun ownership. No one thought that at the time of the ratification of the Bill of Rights and no one thought so until 2008 when Scalia made one up in DC v. Heller. Bruen starts with the faulty premise that such a right is expressed in the Constitution and then just gets dumber from there. Similar to Alito in Dobbs, Thomas simply makes up a nonsensical rule to arrive at the outcome he wants that has no basis in precedent or the Constitution. He basically argues that only restrictions on gun ownership before the 2nd amendment and up to around the Civil War can be instituted today. He then concludes that nothing like the New York law existed (despite multiple evidence that such laws did exist within Thomas’s arbitrary window) and thus the New York law must be struck down. You couldn’t come up with a worse-argued decision if you tried (Dobbs comes close) and its clear that Thomas didn’t try. Maybe try reading the Constitution and Supreme Court precedent one day before just parroting partisan Federalist Society nonsense.
Alito knows better than you. He’s a supreme court justice not some quack lawyer like yourself
Alito is proof that even supreme court justices are quack lawyers.
I’m chuckling at Chasgoose’s opening “As an actual lawyer”. How about this then? Let lawyers decide if women can get an abortion, not women themselves since “lawyers” like you think that you know better than us peons, yes? 🙂
Your representation of the decision is inaccurate. The argument is that there is no equal protection clause to an abortion because men can’t abort (wink, except for trans-men). Your rational mirrors that of Sotomayor: You think the ruling is unjust so it MUST be unconstitutional because you disagree with it. Or it will lead to worse things because The Constitution doesn’t preemptively outlaw all bad things so new rights need to be made up by the courts.
Now THOSE are dangerous precedents to set.
I’m chuckling about the FA union taking this on as an issue since FA’s certainly can take advantage of abortion tourism better than anyone. Speaking of concerns about civil rights: A typical leftist regards a poor white male redneck living in a trailer park in Tennessee as a “privileged” (therefore oppressor) loser to be mocked and ridiculed but now they’re crying because his girlfriend may not be able to afford to scrape enough money together for a Southwest ticket to Chicago. Fiddle dee dee.
“First, and I say this as someone who really couldn’t care less if a someone gets an abortion.”
Your long winded post belies that statement.
post is on point Jay Allen
I support abortion precisely because it helps us if all people like Sara Nelson, AOC, and every leftist get abortions every time they are pregnant. The biggest argument in support of elective abortion is only evil people get them. The people protesting/rioting/participating in an insurrection the ruling are the very people that abortion is designed for. Fake Jesuit Christianity is why we have groomers teaching 6 year olds and our daughters going to schools with rap stars sitting next to them. Not every life is precious.
I’m happy with the ruling because it upsets the evil people but do see stopping evil and toxic people from aborting in some states is counterproductive. Smart conservatives would use propaganda to shun and shame leftists for staying in red states or moving to red states. We want leftists out of red states.
Personally I think its evil to care more about a parasitic clump of cells than a living, breathing woman, but do you.
A life is a life.
You are evil.
No. You’re the evil one. You want to rape kids and force them to have those babies,
“The biggest argument in support of elective abortion is only evil people get them”
Nope. Not even close to reality.
Also, “groomers”? I guess we shouldn’t be surprised, given your past homophobic statements.
https://www.instagram.com/gaysagainstgroomers
https://twitter.com/againstgroomers
Ok, ECH…you are starting to make me think Acura has made a return.
Please see these guidelines:
https://liveandletsfly.com/comment-policy/
Ah yes, those sites…where the majority of followers aren’t gay in any way, and the founders of the site aren’t gay but try to fool people into thinking they are a gay site to avoid being accused of being homophobic.
The founder of this site is a lesbian couple and they have many supporters both gay and straight. The tide does seem to be turning.
https://instagram.com/gaysagainstgroomers
Matthew, please do better. You may disagree with Sarah Nelson, but calling her a Marxist is incorrect and it makes you look ignorant, which I know you aren’t. Labor unions are a fundamental part of any functioning capitalist society and while some can go a bit too far in their rhetoric, it’s still better than letting employers run rampant and take advantage of their employees.
You seem to think “Marxism” is a bad thing? She seems to be Marxist and I think she would proudly say so:
https://twitter.com/FlyingWithSara/status/1540425423175258112?s=20&t=kMwQRTV9r31vRDmNAtRF5A
Which is a very reasonable position.
But since it is none of my business then my tax money shouldn’t be given to Planned Parenthood to finance abortions.
Planned Parenthood is welcome to use private funds because someone chose to donate and have their money used to provide abortions.
And lastly…there must be some limits because it is barbaric to abort a viable child.
No moral society can tolerate ending a pregnancy at 30 weeks.
I don’t see her advocating state ownership of the means of production anywhere. She merely advocates capitalism that works for everyone and not just the wealthiest of us. Calling labor unions Marxist is a smear created by business owners who don’t want to treat their employees fairly.
Also, even if she were Marxist, what does that have to do with abortion?
I’d say her Marxism is less about state ownership of production (I’d simplify that concept to communism), and more a theoretical framework (dialectical materialism) to understand class relations and social conflict.
It certainly informs her worldview, including the relative valuations of life and liberty and the reduction of abortion to a liberty interest and an effect of males trying to enslave females.
“Speaking to the Chicago Democratic Socialists in May..” https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2019/12/12/afl-cio-politics-union-flight-attendant-sara-nelson-president-trumka-082739
was supposed to be a reply to chasgoose
Democratic socialists aren’t Marxists. Last time I checked the Democratic socialist countries like the UK, Germany, and those in Scandinavia are still functioning capitalist democracies.
except the democratic part in socialists here is a facade and not the true goal. actual socialism is.. a la Cuba, Venezuela, et al
it can’t be any worse than what is passing for capitalism these days.
If we had less government, we’d have better capitalism. Before progressivism took over the leviathan, total government expenditure (federal, state and local) was under 10% of GDP. Now the government thinks it can dictate all aspects of our lives and progressives are the ones welcoming the intrusions.
ECH and Jay Allen///right on!! We are missing one point…Rape victims get the Plan B pill immediately, causing one not to need an AB……. The Morning ater-{lan B is out there for free and in most college campuses!!
I don’t know a lot about Plan B but just reviewed it and it does seem like a viable option with it being available over the counter and available to both men and women per Planned Parenthood: “It doesn’t matter how old you are and it doesn’t matter what your gender is.”
Angry sky gods demand that the government decree reproductive decisions for women.
No killing babies has nothing to do with religion
How many of the hundreds of thousands of unwanted children living in foster care have you, or the religious Supreme Court justices, adopted? Religion is the beginning and the end of extremist opposition to abortion. Whether it’s because life is perceived as sacred or fear of *insert your angry sky god here* only the religious will force women to have unwanted children then take no part in caring for them.
“WORLD’S MOST POWERFUL FLIGHT ATTENDANT CONDEMNS SUPREME COURT ABORTION RULING”
BFD as if you have nothing better to report on
Might be more interesting if this related to FAs. Perhaps FAs need more abortions because they sleep with pilots on layovers? Or maybe Sara will pressure AA, UA DL – which have significant ops in hick southern states – to provide free travel for FA abortions? Just a general screed on a highly charged topic from a left wing feminist doesn’t add much to the debate.
I certainly hope we don’t forget my recommendation to castrate anyone that has more than two kids. given this ruling, I think we should just have castration stations setup outside churches and enable castrations every Sunday after mass. The american christan Taliban are certainly the group that will meet the requirements for castration.
Castrate american christian Taliban.
Hope you get cancer
If your father had been castrated on time, we wouldn’t have to deal with you now.
That’s so Christian of you dear child diddler
All of a sudden the left can define what a woman is.
Doctor: Sir
Patient: Excuse me doctor it’s ma’am
Doctor: OK ma’am, you have prostate cancer.
We are going backward in time. Its 1973 all over again. Inflation, high gas prices, and questionable civil rights. That’s America for you.
This is the first thing that Sarah Nelson has ever said, ever, that I agree with.
The comment sections about this topic makes me wonder what anybody has to say to get their comment removed
You haven’t seen the comments I’ve blocked or removed…
Fair point
Who in the f*** cares?
It’s ‘sparkling wine’, not Champagne.
Do your job – Get me a pre-departure beverage and some hot nuts.
World’s most powerful sky waitress. Remind me why anyone would care what ain wage clown has to say?
Lol, hoes mad.
Can’t just be me who has seen that phrase. It’s all over social media.
This is the kind of ‘politicization of everything’ type of post that I wish wasn’t on this site. Your justification for it being here as “because it is a huge issue that impacts millions” is extraordinarily weak sauce, though not really surprising. It’s your blog, of course, so do with it what you want. It certainly generated the comments.
You must be new here.
News alert for the typical reactionary American Idiot : the Supreme Court didn’t ban abortion. It simply moved the question back to the states. Sadly, the riots and threats will continue by the American Idiots who haven’t a clue as to how government works. You can’t cure ignorance.
OMG, who cares. Nothing was outlawed, just returned to the individual states. We are a federal nation, that is how it works.
Your site is a daily read. If you don’t agree with someone’s politics, don’t be so histrionic. Just because you do not agree with her, does not mean she is a Marxist. Turn down the language and respect people for their differences.
I really don’t understand why “Marxist” is a bad word or insult. Can you explain?
The political positions Unions and their leadership such as Sara Nelson take are an excellent reason for right to work laws.