The move by Delta Air Lines to require newly-hired flight attendants to complete mandatory community service in order to pass their probationary period is a great idea that I hope other US carriers will adopt.
Community Service For Flight Attendants Makes A Lot Of Sense
As flagged by PYOK, Delta Air Lines is now requiring all new hire flight attendants to complete community service before they are able to exit their post-hiring probationary period. Community service options include, but are not limited to:
- pulling weeds in local parks
- helping out at a food bank
- preparing food for a soup kitchen
Delta confirmed this move while also revealing that flight attendants are paid for this time:
“Newly-hired Delta flight attendants participate in community volunteer activities as part of their paid employee onboarding program. These volunteer activities exemplify Delta’s people-focused culture and our strong belief in giving back to the communities we serve.”
I think requiring flight attendants (and frankly all employees) to perform community service on their own time is an even better way, but this is better than nothing. Community service encourages empathy, sacrifice, and helps us to check our privilege.
While I do not fly Delta much, I must say that on United Airlines, a carrier I do fly very often, the new-hire flight attendants are often far worse than the “senior mamas” (I use that term affectionately) in providing good service. I find these flight attendants are more likely to hide in the galley than their older counterparts but that this problem can be overcome through (among other things) community service.
For the avoidance of doubt, I do not think community service should be for flight attendants only. I perform a lot of community at my church and look forward to my children joining in as they get a little older. As an American, I’d love to see a national service requirement for every citizen. As a lawyer, I am not sure such a requirement would be constitutional, but I nevertheless encourage everyone to give back to their community in a land that has provided them with so much opportunity. Community service can be exhilarating and fulfilling.
CONCLUSION
Delta is requiring all new flight attendants to perform community service. This is a great move to weed out problematic employees and is an initiative I would love to see at other airlines as well.
@ Matthew– Well, if this is what Delta wants, they should also provide mandatory compensation for the hours worked. I hope they get sued for forcing people to work without compensation. This is totally inappropriate.
The post mentions that they are paid for their community service
Oops, my bad. That’s what I get for skimming. Now that I know the company is paying for it, I think it’s a great idea.
I think you’re on the right track with requiring this for all employees that interact with the public, particularly pilots and flight attendants.
“For the avoidance of doubt, I do not think community service should be for flight attendants only. I perform a lot of community at my church and look forward to my children joining in as they get a little older. As an American, I’d love to see a national service requirement for every citizen. As a lawyer, I am not sure such a requirement would be constitutional, but I nevertheless encourage everyone to give back to their community in a land that has provided them with so much opportunity.”
I disagree with you strongly on this. The constitutional questions notwithstanding (and I suspect it is unconstitutional, and almost certainly practically unenforceable), while I’m sure many will gain something lasting and positive, that’s not going to be universal. You’re going to have a sizeable minority that develops resentment, towards the government mandating the service, the organizations themselves, and the communities they’re being “voluntold” to serve. And of course, you’ll inevitably have a system where the privileged and politically connected find ways to weasel out of their requirement.
I worked for a firm that essentially mandated that employees donate to the United Way and perform service for affiliated organizations. There was absolutely discontent over it, and too many who simply picked something to “get their hours in” without really believing in what they were doing. Conversely, employers who have taken more of an encouragement/incentive approach end up with a much more committed workforce where 90%+ choose to participate anyway. That’s the way it should be IMO.
I find it interesting that many on the right, who otherwise espouse patriotism, so strongly disdain national service. I pray we will never have to see what would happen if this country must bring back the draft.
I’m not entirely opposed to the carrot versus the stick approach. One of my great concerns is for obesity, which I think represents a great existential threat to our nation and will only get worse. Federal, state, and local governments are doing a horrible job in dealing with this issue and personal responsibility seems to be failing too.
I would welcome a carrot-based approach to preventative healthcare, such as tuition discounts for working out or health insurance discounts for annual preventative blood work or closing rings on Apple Watches. This problem is going to get worse and more expensive and the tragedy is that it is preventable.
I don’t think the problem is sufficient incentives or enough education around obesity. Rather, the problem for lots of Americans is cost. The government subsidies corn and wheat farmers making products like corn syrup so cheap, you see it in everything. This often means the cheapest food is often the unhealthiest food. Furthermore, it’s not like American cities encourage walking and going from a 9-5 sitting a desk or flipping burgers to driving homes without really anwhreye decent to exercise doesn’t help. Sure one can say they can do pushups in their room, but that’s one person. Obseity is also a cultural problem, it should be easy for people the walk places, helping them stay healthy without fear of a car hitting them.
If the Goverment wants to help they could start by reducing subsides for these farmers if they grow wheat and corn and subsidising other, healthier foods.
They’re being paid for this, which makes it part of training. In what way is that unconstitutional?
I’m not talking about this particular initiative from Delta. I was thinking about a broader federal program of mandatory national service.
Just curious, Matthew: What community/ volunteer service have you performed?
I mentioned that in my story…and anyone who actually knows me can vouch for that.
I’m confused Matt. Since this is paid, I don’t have an issue with it as part of training for any job. It’s at will employment so if you don’t like this part of the training program, don’t accept the job or quit.
My confusion is so you encourage this for every job that comes in contact with customers? And will you institute this for any employees you and your company hire? Or are you just singling out airlines? Should say, McDonald’s also do this with new hires? If not, why?
Working at McDonalds is far worse than community service…picking up trash on the parkway would be a godsend, I would think.
At my company, we did team-building initiatives that included community service – so they were paid for their time too, but that represents an important element of corporate responsibility and trying to promote the best from your workers.
@Matthew: “I think requiring flight attendants (and frankly all employees) to perform community service on their own time is an even better way” and ” I’d love to see a national service requirement for every citizen.”
Wow. Strongly disagree. What if they can’t afford to do that? Speaking generally here (beyond F/As and DL), but so many households barely scrape by, and you want them to give up their precious time for FREE? Even with FT jobs, not everyone has the luxury and privilege of doing community service when they can’t afford housing, food, medical expenses, etc. What about the extra time away from home without childcare?
I think incentivizing (and compensating for) community service is fine. Making it a requirement, not so much. And DL is only paying 4 hours for a full day’s work. That’s not cool.
@Tennen: Well, I guess we are going in a political direction here in terms of the discussion.
Any company with employees who work full time who cannot afford housing or health care should be heavily taxed and fined.
Health care is a travesty in the United States.
To borrow the words of Winston Churchill:
But I think it is ridiculous that people think that this system just sustains itself through tax dollars. Our country is sustained through citizen participation and care. I am a firm believer in subsidiarity, but I hate it when people think their “hard work” made them a success when that is but one (key) element. The infrastructure and systems in put in place long before any one of us give us a venue in which we can thrive. But that system needs preservation, which is why I am institutionalist and want the 1/6/21 perpetrators to hang (and also why I believe those smash and grab thugs here in California should be summarily executed).
National service should be something that every one does on their own. Sadly, people are too selfish (too busy is a cop out).
@Matthew, well, at least we do agree on some/most things in your reply. 🙂
One thought on the national service aspect. If it were implemented like jury duty (but much better), then it *might* work (but probably never will…). Even one day of community service a year from a portion of the population would be huge. I think the biggest issue is culture. As you pointed out, people are selfish. :-\
@ Matthew — Wow. I didn’t realize we thought so much alike!
Frankly, I don’t understand. Let me read this again. By doing this, Flight Attendants are treated like former jail convicts, doing community service.
Flight attendants and ANY people working with the public need to get some knowledge of people’s behaviour such as taking a certificate in human psychology on how to deal with anger, anxiety, and fear as well as dealing with physical health problems such as heart conditions, strokes, drug overdoses, diabetes, etc.
I think it is a travesty that you see community service, which does indeed sometimes include menial labor, as being treated like a jail convict. All work, when done for the betterment of others, is noble work.
As a flight attendant… with the terrible work rules and long duty days; not to mention many fly high-time flight schedules, the LAST thing one is going to do on a day off is community service. Totally insane.
Insane? You think others should do the work for you?
I will start by saying I am NOT a flight attendant (but have friends who are).
I honestly think you should try a day in a flight attendant’s work day (even better, a week) and you will see how many times their schedules change due to weather/maintenance/crew rest/delays due to FAA initiatives/ diversions (not necessarily weather, could be medical emergency or misbehaving passengers) and then see if you have the energy to go serve others in the way it’s been described.
Also, one thing is being paid for it, but you say they should do it on their free time (who picks up the tab for child care, for example?)
I think it’s inhumane (and most likely illegal) to make someone work for no money when they have a job BECAUSE they need money.
By what you shared, seems you are a great guy who helps others in his free time. Free being the key word here.
I will end this here. But please consider walking in their shoes. It will change your perception and your perspective.
If there is a problem at you can make this happen, I will do so. Would love to do it.
I believe this is part of training? Not being enforced as a part of later standard employment? But of course you are triggered by anything and everything as a flight attendant.
If I’m AFA I’m saying Thank you!!
I am for encouraging it but not making it mandatory. I know quite a few flight attendants (and more broadly a lot more airline front line employees) who would be in an income or social class that would benefit from being on the receiving end. I had this round and round at a former employer… you want me to have community service event during a certain week for my location. Okay, we are a 24/7 operation so therefore even being volun-mandatory you at best are going to get 1/3 to 1/2 of the workforce, or try and stretch something over an all day time frame but who wants to go do a service event with their coworkers after working 330am to 1pm? Or getting off work at 1am, and coming in the morning before going back and doing it again? On off days, they had child care obligations or other jobs, or picked up overtime at our company because we were short staffed. Next idea: Well have a food drive! Okay, so they can use their EBT to buy canned goods, put them in the box, then go shopping themselves at the food pantry? Habitat for Humanity? Who is going to build them a house to get them out of public housing?
This is all well intentioned but making something broadly mandatory especially to entry level hourly positions is a hard sell. I say this as I’m on a Delta plane right now having coffee in a recycled cup with some odd type of sweetener that isn’t in a blue or pink or yellow packet, and a bamboo stir stick, with organic vegan gummy bears (that take like matter) because well, Delta. Did you know Delta know has beekeepers on the corporate payroll? Beekeepers! At HDQ they have beehives! This is all gonna make the next cost cut round easy when they could probably whack 20% of merit positions and not impact the operation.
Deltas f/as are the best in the US because they are non union.
All unions do is keep the trash employed. We need union reform in this country so that businesses can fire employees who organize them and replace them.
I also think we should allow illegals and asylum seekers in this country to work.
If the FA’s reading this thread (you know who you are, I know you guys lurk in here) think this is equivalent to a court ordered community service for misdemeanor, please jump on over to AA or UA if you’re not already working there. I heard picketing and bitching is their preferred way of serving the community.
I’ve worked (volunteered) in food banks and soup kitchens before. While most “customers” are nice, you do get to deal with that certain crackhead once in a while; they can think of that as training, a worst case scenario when they see the next #TMFINR on board.
@ Jan
Good & truthful snark. Always appreciated here.
This is absolutely disgusting. I would neverrrr.
Hope delta gets sued in the courts over this. Who would ever “ you have community service to complete “…. like the community service isn’t dealing with these individuals on flights everyday. Lmao, right .
What have you done for your country?
My company would twist your arm to participate in United Way. Some got dinged in the ranking process for not participating.
Once the scandal broke about the head of UW living high on the hog, most volunteer requests were stopped cold.
Foolish that employees got hurt for a corrupt cause.
Never been a fan of forced volunteering, not since I the required “community service” hours required for my catholic high school (Which I largely faked).
@Chi Hsuan
Woods Academy? And all the while I was driving the kids to animal shelters, where the work wasn’t different from the their actual chores.
No, just some school in Nevada that you’ve probably never heard of
I think if you work and pay taxes from your earnings, that is more than enough to satisfy community service as a citizen.
I have always admired the Euro approach of mandatory service, military or community. I think it’s an amazing opportunity for young people to achieve a sense of purpose within a community and to build character. It’s a shame that it will likely never happen in the U.S. as it might just be the one thing that calms the nerves of so many.
As to employers doing this? I’m not sure. It will be interesting to see if it truly has impact. Personally, as to airlines, they might be better served in having new hires working for a month at another airline overseas as an intern to truly understand service levels elsewhere.
Stuart, the union would rather dissolve before it allows training from an airline that actually respects service. Dream on. I like the idea of community service. I would enjoy seeing a tax incentive for families that participate.
Is it truly “service” if it’s paid and required?
As someone who already puts in 200+ hours of annual community service related to middle school civics education programs (and does so with joy), I am strongly opposed to any effort to make community service a job requirement, especially when an employee is compelled to support a particular initiative (like United Way or Susie Komen, both of which are essentially corporations). Any time I’m forced to work on community service projects for which I don’t have a passion (or are unsuited to my skillset), is a waste of my time. These initiatives punish people who already are civic-minded.
I suspect the percentage of Americans performing community service is much higher than you think.
And obesity is not the greatest threat to the United States. The poor state of civics education is.
@Ryan
I agree with you statement about being forced to participate in community projects. I got roped into painting a house for someone who was not very thankful. Left me with a cynical view of the agency in question.
Habitat for Humanity is another agency that I question. Have seen news reports of recipients loosing the house due to debt or other waste.
Another irk is when when senior leadership & HR show up when the photographer is present. Once the photo shoot is over, so are the members of the C-Suite.
I think it’s easier said from the stand point of a professional, lawyer for example. Easier said from corporate. I don’t think that many new hires want or will pull weeds etc. It all leaves a bad taste in the mouth to me. While commendable, public service is not the same when someone is forced into it.
Matt, aren’t you supposed to be a learned scholar, attorney or something? Delta wants to pay employees their wage to do some menial stuff before getting on the job-fine. But you say having employers require employees to do community service “on their own time is a better way”?
Well riddle me this: how tf is it “their own time” if they are required to do it as a condition of employment?!? I think the NLRB might have something to say about that. And rightfully so.
You signal a wafer-thin shell of virtue, under which lies pure, unadulterated tyranny!!! I hope you own a business, try pulling what you propose with your own employees, and reap the whirlwind.
My advice to you is to defect to a communist regime. You’ve got the right stuff. Certainly not too big on the whole individual rights and freedom thing.
Your lack of patriotism is detestable. You sound like the type that would flee to Canada if the draft ever returned. One day you’ll realize that video games in mommy’s basement is not living.
You know what entity most strongly opposes a draft? The military.
The last thing a non-com, lieutenant, or captain wants is a squad/platoon/company full of guys who don’t want to be there.
I do not want a draft either (speaking as a former USAF reservist). My point was what would happen if it became necessary…I shudder to think.
Mandatory is not a good word in any workplace! What a communist ideal this is. Forcing community service is punishment whether it’s paid or not, I feel that the people running the show at Delta are pretty intelligent, but this stunt will surly backfire on them. Try that In a union environment they would have a strike on their hands. As for you Matt? Encouraging companies and government to exploit their workforce is shameful.
Is the draft communist?
Yes it is. And so are you
And that makes you…an unpatriotic, lazy, apathetic, grifter?
And at the very least, extremely selfish and ungrateful.