Americans–and apparently Austrians–seem to think they know far better how to handle an onboard emergency than specially-trained American Airlines flight attendants. That is sickening, but it’s also a real test case that we must use to re-examine how we evacuate aircraft during an emergency.
Passengers Defy Flight Attendants On American Airlines
I wrote about an American Airlines A321 evacuation at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) last week due to a laptop battery fire. But it has since emerged that there was a lot of additional–and unnecessary–drama onboard.
Passengers Defy Flight Attendants By Opening Emergency Exit Door, Throwing Smoldering Bag Outside
The fire was contained with a laptop bag, but sufficient smoke escaped such that the cabin became hazy, and some reported trouble breathing.
Passengers were instructed to evacuate through the forward doors, but an Austrian family traveling together decided to take matters into their own hands.
Junior defied flight attendant instructions and opened the “armed” emergency exit door, meaning the inflatable slide deployed. Papa then chucked the laptop outside the aircraft, even though he was told not to.
Why did they do it? Because he felt like it.
Passengers Defy Flight Attendants By Taking Carry-On Items With Them During Evacuation
Another video shows flight attendants screaming and cursing at passengers to evacuate the aircraft and leave carry-on items behind, but no one is listening. People are seen grabbing carry-on bags and the evacuation process is painfully slow.
https://twitter.com/MarkAPrinceJr/status/1812230559013249421
Imagine if JAL flight 516 had evacuated that slowly…
It is sickening that passengers 1.) know they are to leave carry-on items behind during an emergency evacuation and yet 2.) choose to ignore those instructions.
Had the fire been more serious, passengers may have died.
A Deeper Cultural Problem
What are we to do about passengers who simply are not willing to follow flight attendant instructions?
And big picture, sure we could mandate design locks on bins, but that’s the wrong solution, too. We constantly look for ways to solve culture with technology instead of doing the hard work of repairing culture.
— Jon Ostrower (@jonostrower) July 13, 2024
Yes, I agree with Ostrower that this does represent a societal-level breakdown.
Critics might say it is like parents who fail to care for their children during the formative years and then lose all control of them during the teenage years. If flight attendants had been kind and caring in the first place, people would listen to them.
Baloney.
There are bad apples–trust me, I’ve seen a lot of them–but flight attendants are trained to evacuate aircraft..it is the most IMPORTANT reason they are present.
We have a problem in the USA where everyone thinks they know what is best. Thanks to the internet and echo chambers of discourse, we have “subject-matter experts” on everything under the sun and your training and degrees mean nothing compared to my “gut feeling” about a matter.
It should not be this way and frankly, I do not know how to fix it, but there will be unnecessary death when a big calamity breaks out onboard…people are too selfish.
CONCLUSION
A smoking laptop battery should have resulted in a quick and easy evacuation of an American Airlines A321. Instead, chaos ensued onboard, with many passengers wholly disregarding flight attendant instructions.
This “test case” exposes a dangerous risk present on every flight. Now comes the harder question of what to do about it.
Will you contribute to the problem by insisting on taking your carry-on items during an evacuation?
image: @Maticesss / X
Perhaps the Austrian was correct to throw the smoking, flaming backpack out of the plane. Having it outside is much safer than having it inside, is it not?
I guess that’s what we have to wrestle with. By both federal law and airline contract of carriage, we are told to follow FA instructions, particularly on safety-related matters.
Was there a better way? Perhaps. But were the FAs wrong? Could the plane have been evacuated in two minutes if everyone just got up and walked out the front door, leaving everything behind?
My two cents is @Chi is correct to get rid of the immediate threat : the fire . By the time the FAs finish checking their mobile phones it would be too late .
In the Army , to save everyone , the soldier on guard duty shoots the sapper . Why wait for the OD to finish his crossword puzzle ?
Must suck when you don’t have anything real to write about
Must suck to have to pay child support to your sister for the bastard child you had together. Then again, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. So a riddle for you: what do you call your father’s sister and your father’s wife? Mommy.
An Air Force Airman received the Medal of Honor for throwing the burning flares out of the airplane whilst in flight .
No , the Europeans were incorrect. The correct procedure is to have the flight attendants put the fire out then they put the laptop in a containment bag. By doing what they did it caused an evacuation and the thing about slides is they can kill ramp agents possibly if they are near. Very selfish of them for not following instructions.They should be fined
I disagree. The evacuation had already started, VERY SLOWLY. Are they supposed to wait for the other passengers to take their sweet time while the fire spreads right in front of them? Are they selfish for taking their safety into their own hands rather than following the airline’s sacred procedures?
The evacuation started because of them!!!!
It started because a laptop battery caught fire.
@Chi … Good thinking . Get rid of the fire immediately . Why wait until the FAs get their act together , if they ever will ?
It makes sense doesn’t it? Especially given how slowly the passengers were getting off the plane in that video. If I were onboard, I would certainly want to be rid of the smoking, flaming backpack as quickly as possible.
Maybe if the evacuation had proceeded quickly it would not have been necessary, but it seems safer just to toss it outside rather than let the cabin keep filling up with smoke. Assuming the FA were in their jumpseats when the fire started, they may have not been in a position to assess the danger either.
But I wasn’t there. I’m sure the FAA will get to the bottom of it.
@Chi … +1 . Good thinking . Likely better thinking than the FAs , who would possibly pull out their mobile phones to check them . Three junks are : the batteries , the laptops , and the mobile phones .
A laptop fire doesn’t warrant an evacuation. The flight attendants put out the fire then put it in a containment bag. The passengers are what caused it they should be fined.
There’s nothing about a “containment bag” in the story. The evacuation was prompted by smoke emanating from a laptop bag. And a fire in the cabin does absolutely warrant an evacuation.
They are selfish and they are idiots. Piles of people develop those procedures and they shouldn’t be subject to being overruled by whatever some random passenger thinks in the moment.
Right on. Fines and no fly list for every passenger who disobeyed the flight attendants directions. You have to make an example of these people. That Austrian kid should be jailed for his haircut alone.
Might as well throw it in the fuel tank.
Have we considered the guy was panicking about what was on his laptop and tried to get rid of it? Possibly had a few “little” things on it he didn’t want a forensic tech to find if they confiscated it. But wasn’t sure of the best way to do it.
Sounds great, but completely wrong. They do not know what flammable substances are on the ground. What if they missed and it went into the engine? So many variables. Do what the trained personnel tell you to do. It’s so simple.
Having just flown exit row from BIO to FRA, we were told if there was a fire, we would be instructed to open the doors.
Everyone assumes the FAs are “properly trained” and infallible. Training differs amongst carriers.
To the Austrian family, bravo. Better to get forgiveness than permission. I’ve seen Li ion battery fires, it can go from smoke to incendiary amazingly fast, and can burn underwater. They reacted logically.
Passengers getting their carry on bags are def indicative of our self centered, object focused culture in America.
As far as FA go, look up the recent event from DEN to Orange county. Ridiculous.
Perhaps you should stick to commenting on things you may be trained to do instead of contributing to the obvious problem of blatant disregard for authority and others safety. You and everyone who ignored the flight attendants instructions should be banned from ever getting on an airplane.
An Air Force Airman received the Medal of Honor for throwing the burning flares out of the airplane whilst in flight .
Unless the “smoking, flaming” backpack lands on top of refueling apparatus near the aircraft.
Make it a felony to take your bag with you in an emergency evacuation. That would make people think twice.
But only if your bag is worth more than $900, amirite
I don’t even think the door the son opened was armed. He said he saw “armed” on the door at boarding, but that doesn’t mean the doors are armed…on the A320 family, the word is still legible even though the door may not be armed. Really demonstrates your point about people thinking they know better than everyone else, I rolled my eyes when he was like “so I knew it was armed”.
You can see in the photo from the ground, the aft aircraft left door was opened and the slide didn’t deploy there, likely because the door was not armed because it was still at the gate. Not sure on AA’s exact procedures but at my airline doors aren’t armed until all doors are closed.
Since people are obviously going to try to evade the rules the only viable option is to have overhead bins that are locked. That way, people will either not bother to try or try once and give up.
Ok genius, when would you lock the bins? If your answer is anything other than “in the event of an emergency”, imagine how often locks fail and get stuck and cause a delay?
And if the answer is in the event of an emergency, you expect the airlines to install and fly locks that will almost never get used?
As a firefighter, I can tell you: We are trained that the best way to rescue someone trapped by fire is by putting out the fire. I’m not so sure that getting the smoking laptop out of the plane (the equivalent of “put out the fire” in this situation) was so wrong. Now, it really should’ve been the FAs handling the process, since they’re the “trained experts” here AND were giving everyone else directions to NOT handle the laptop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sometimes, the passenger has more info and/or more knowledge than the FA.
Airlines should consider adding to evacuation instructions “if you evacuate without bags, we will pay you $10,000!” and factor that into the price of the ticket, which might increase fares 2 cents.
The message to leave all belongings is simply not made clear enough during US airline safety videos and demonstrations. However, on Japanese airlines like ANA and JAL the instruction to leave all items on board is emphasized and the animated consequences are shown like blocking aisles and slowing down the process.
It’s a breakdown of listening to the crew, but in this case not much danger. And my beef is people not realizing bringing a bag slows you down on the slide. But a lot of hysteria here for an odd, quickly low stakes situation.
The evacuation video was taken after the fire was out and laptop out of the plane – no further danger – and the loudest dissenter was the owner of the laptop who knew it was gone from the aircraft, no more fire or smoke from the source.
And based on the line to get out, they had called for evacuation only moments before that. So maybe a few seconds of actual danger time during the evacuation call.
When it’s clear to many there’s no danger they’re going to behave differently than when the danger is unknown or clear.
Now if the laptop owner / son had listened to the flight crew then maybe a burning laptop would have remained in cabin (who knows if the flight attendant would have got gloves, etc and the bag in time) – and the evacuation would be serious. Or maybe no evacuation at all. Hard to tell.
I also don’t see anyone impeding exit with the arguing. They’re all waiting for the other rows ahead to get up and through.
We as f/a are trained in emergency situations. It state’s you are to listen to us, in any emergency. Problem is everyone else always think they know better. You need to not panic and listen to your F/A.
Sure, throw the bag out so it can set fuel tanks on fire. Some illetrate Austrian who read about armed doors is running around overriding all airline and FAA protocols for these types of emergencies.
Fuel isn’t just sitting around in big pools waiting to be lit on fire.
Must suck when you don’t have anything real to write about
Also you misspelled “illiterate”
The actions displayed kind of mirror society in general. Pretty damn selfish.
When we praise defiance of authority in our culture, we should expect such behavior.
Is it possible that the flight attendants were trying to avoid a bigger hassle that might come from a full evacuation via the emergency exits by making everyone go through the forward doors?
That said, is that REALLY the right thing to do when the cabin is filling with smoke? I sort of feel like they were prioritizing the added paperwork or expense of a full evacuation process over the safety of the passengers and going with what was more convenient for them rather than what was right.
It’s not just paperwork. People are sager on a jet bridge than they are wandering around the tarmac.
“We have a problem in the USA where everyone thinks they know what is best. Thanks to the internet and echo chambers of discourse, we have “subject-matter experts” on everything under the sun and your training and degrees mean nothing compared to my “gut feeling” about a matter.”
And the comments here perfectly exemplify this problem.
Afew thoughts here.
1) those passengers who disobey the F/A and have their bags should be placed on a no fly list. They are a danger to all onboard on any flight!
2) Do the F/As have containment bags both fore and aft in the aircraft?
Yes, one in front cabin and the other in aft part of cabin.
Pax who attempted to take carry on off,,,no fly list,,those who argued,,,most of the pax,,,federal charges for interfering with a flight crew,,,should make this a test case,,really follow thru,,make them realize just how self centered idiots could cost lives,,,,
The foam in the seats burns and when it does it is toxic. Will cause breathing problems or even death. Take your damn wallet and get out ASAP. THE PURSE AND LUGGAGE AS WELL AS CARRY-ONS ARE THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES.
Many, if not most, air travelers today have no memory of 9/11. Every child should have to watch a video reenactment including the chaos on the hijacked planes. Then they might understand the necessity of following orders and not doing whatever you want in an emergency.
I think they should have asked to speak to a supervisor rather than take matters into their own hands.
No time to waste lolly-gagging around .
Where was the Containment bag!!!
Who prosecutes those not following the FA instructions? Is it criminal rather than civil? Is it both? Does the FAA fine passengers who did not listen? Does the airline identify and turn over names for the no fly list? It would help to clarify here. It would very much help if there was a public announcement of what consequences were brought down on these people.
I keep my passport on my body, at least below 10,000 feet. If I jump, I jump with the passport; the rest can wait.
Sorry.. anyone existing with luggage gets on the “do not fly list”. The story makes the headlines and going forward everyone listens to the fight attendants.
*Exiting*
Take my remarks as you will. 1) Carryon bags in an evacuation. The IATA is actually in the works of changing this “guideline”, as it pertains to passengers bringing their carryon bags with them in an evacuation; whether or not their internal studies will gain traction, is a different story. But is is something that has been brought up since the 2021 Cabin Safety Conferences. My viewpoint is that, if the bag is within imminent reach, just grab it and run. Everything in the bins should simply, stay in the bins, as opening and finding the bags will hinder the evacuation. 2) This is why exit briefings are key. Most US crews will simply hold up the briefing card and ask for a yes if they’re able to help. In my case, I will take the time to give a thorough briefing, with key points being “should you hear the words “evacuate, evacuate, evacuate” and/or per crew member instruction or if I’m incapacitated, you should first look out the window; if safe to do so (insert door function here), any further questions, comments, inquiries…” passengers need to understand that they cannot and should not initiate an evacuation or use egress functions unless a full evacuation has been engaged (similar to a code 3, red lights sirens). 3) throwing the object out. Absolutely not. The ramp has several hazards and people. The ground crews working outside of the aircraft do not know if an evacuation has been engaged at the gate. By opening the slide and throwing the object out, it could’ve killed or injured someone, or worse, if there were flammable items located on the ramp (gas, oil, etc), it could’ve been bad.
4) Culture. Its arrogance. Americans are taught from an early age to be first or to always be right. In controlled settings, such as an airplane, there is a chain of authority, the passengers of which, have none. The actions and inactions by these passengers is horrible and scary. As mentioned by others, had there been a fire, people may very well of been killed because of arrogance. Unfortunately, it is always a battle, like constant Opposite Day with Americans. I think to overcome these issues onboard, especially if it causes threat to life of others onboard, those who can be identified being defiant, should face the FAA and a potential ban on the respective airline. If you can’t follow simple instructions, or have a problem with authority, you really shouldn’t be flying anyways.
Interesting re IATA didn’t know.
As for the comments about Americans…
The loudest objections were from the Austrian man who owned the laptop.
Not an American.
Actually just about every passenger speaking in that video has an accent.
Enough of the blame America – it doesn’t help anything and isn’t accurate.
Yes, the overt demonstration of individuals’ self-esteem is surely the issue here, I get how that the solution isn’t an obvious one
Seems like way too much common sense to throw the smoking bag out the door. Did the air waitress order everyone to stand up in an orderly fashion and leave through just one door, rather than using all available exits? People don’t even do that on a regular flight.
Perhaps if it didn’t cost $40 to check a bag there would be less drama like this because belongings would be stowed below. Having flight attendants scream and curse doesn’t sound too professional by the way – they need some more training.
Matthew is giving flight attendants too much credit. They are trained but that doesn’t mean they have good judgment. Blindly following orders is why some people went back into one of the Twin Towers after evacuating. It should be up to each individual to decide what is safe for him or herself, not a waiter with basic training and not the government.
I can’t blame people for bringing their smaller bags when there is no real immediate danger. It’s easy to say for someone to leave their passport, their money, their documents, and potentially their heirlooms and sentimental jewelry but if that someone has his own heirlooms in a small carryon bag, I bet he or she will try to take it with them.
Suppose a massive amount of jet fuel was leaking from the plane. Sure, toss out a flaming laptop. You know best. Ignore the person who has had hundreds of hours of training and thousands of hours of flight time. You all know best. How about the next time you’re on a bumpy flight, ask the pilot if you can take over. Why? Because your youtube comments are so inciteful, that qualifies you.
Maybe if so many flight attendants didn’t act like power tripping little Stalins the passengers would be more apt to listen to them.
It’s a breakdown of trust in flight crew. Since Covid-19 they’ve become enforcers, an approach that failed at a critical time. I get why the shouting was ineffective. Something has to give.
Everyone knew it was a minor issue, absolutely nobody wanted to leave their luggage for such a minor issue. Second not a single flight attendant in existence is smarter than me or more physically capable, I’ll be doing what’s best for me, period. It’s not like they get some super advanced training, they are really just low IQ women for the most part. It’s common sense to throw something out of the cabin that’s smoking. Stop making flight attendants sound like they are super agents of skill and bravery, most now are DEI hires and low IQ mutants.
It’s hilarious to me, the amount of people who think tarmacs are covered with open fuels on the ground
I was through an airport a few months back, full ground stop and evacuation because of an over fueled plane that had run out onto the tarmac.
If the plane was still at the gate when this happened, THEY SIMPLY SHOULD HAVE CARRIED THE OFFENDING BAG OF THE PLANE!!!
Training can save lives, but bad training can cost lives as well. Sometimes, common sense needs to override training.
@Chris … “carry the burning bag off the plane” ?
( And burn down the terminal ? )
An Air Force Airman received the Medal of Honor for throwing the burning flares out of the airplane while in flight .
Fines and/or jail time might make a difference!
This has occurred numerous times. In an emergency, people take their luggage. This is a simple, but extremely important, test that some people fail. Making it a felony or civil fine likely will not make a difference. Banning them from ever flying again might. I certainly do not ever want to be on aircraft that failed the evacuation test. Not telling how many people they could injure or kill by their failure. Might even be me.
I have seen a laptop explode from a faulty battery. It would have killed a number of people if one employee had not grabbed it and put it in a closed office.
When it exploded, it caused $20,000 in damages.
Yes, the actions of passengers grabbing their luggage was wrong. But getting that laptop off the plane probably saved lives.
The truly sickening part of this is how poorly the article was ritten. Get some sleep, fix it and then maybe it will be reedable.
Looks fine to me.
* Written.* * Redeemable*
At an absolute minimum, errant passengers should be banned from future travel.
You can’t change people’s behavior in times of panic. And you can’t say that this bad behavior is only by Americans although there are certain ways that you can attribute to Americans, but not here.
The flying public largely lacks respect for what it takes to travel anywhere in the air, at 36,000 feet, and do so safely. Passengers too often are rude, dressed inappropriately and loathe to pay attention to instructions. The video of the Soviet aircraft in flames, and the pilot’s contention that lives were in the balance RE speed of evacuation, should be a lesson to all of us who fly. Put your phone, food, drink, book, computer, whatever, aside when flight attendants give their safety briefings, even if you’ve heard or seen the same briefing a million times. Don’t be embarrassed to look at the card in the pocket in front of you. Ditto for emergency row exit instructions. Make eye contact with the flight attendants. Show you care and understand. Respect what it takes to be up there and do it safely for hours on end with people cramped in tiny spaces. And if, God hope not, something happens: Listen, follow instructions and act quickly. Every bit of stuff you have aboard any airplane at any time and any place can be replaced. You cannot.
Mom of a commercial pilot.