After revelations surfaced that as many as 262 of the 860 commercial pilots in Pakistan are not really certified to fly, I wrote an op-ed calling for Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) to be blacklisted until a full investigation was completed. A PIA pilot whose credentials are now being questioned reached out to me to provide his perspective on why the picture being presented to the public is incomplete. This PIA “fake” pilot makes a compelling point.
PIA Pilot: I’m On The Fake Pilot List And Horrified
The pilot has asked to remain anonymous for the time being, though I have verified his identity as a PIA first officer. He reached out me after learning his name was on the suspect list and then finding my article about it online. Primary among his concerns is that the public has not been made aware of the specifics of what are being alleged.
This is not a matter of “fake” pilots taking to the skies. Rather, it is a matter of certification for captain.
In Pakistan, there are three levels of pilots:
- Private Pilot License (PPL) – for personal use; allows you fly an aircraft without charging any money
- Commercial Pilot License (CPL) – for anyone who wants to become a pilot by profession. This allows you to get paid, and fly any aircraft as a first officer (co-pilot) or fly any aircraft as a captain provided the aircraft’s weight is less than 5700 kilograms
- Airline Transport Pilot License (ATPL) – the highest category of license that a pilot obtains; a requirement to fly any aircraft which weights more than 5700 kilograms as a captain.
Many nations divide pilots into these three classifications, though precise definitions and requirements vary by country. To obtain each license a minimum number of flight hours and written exams are required.
An Issue Of Timing
The PIA pilot explained that many pilots now find their credentials being questioned over an issue of timing.
“Our reputation has been demolished thanks to an overzealous minister who made a statement without any fact checking. Just to give you the other side, the criteria for judging whether a license is dubious by our Civil Aviation Authority is anyone who operated a flight the same day they appeared in a written exam. I am one such case.”
The pilot is a first officer who holds a CPL, not an ATPL. He explained that he took the first of his eight ATPL written exams on the same day he operated a flight. This triggered an automatic red flag and makes him one of the 262 suspects.
“I operated a flight from Lahore to Karachi in the morning, went straight to the examination center in Karachi and gave my first ATPL exam. I passed. There is a record of me signing in on an attendance sheet with the time I walked in (I was late due to the flight, though I received no extra time to complete my paper). They supposedly have camera footage of me at the examination hall. I have since not appeared in any more exams. Still got seven more to go. Therefore, I don’t even possess the fake license I’m alleged to have!”
PIA Fake Pilot License? I Never Claimed To Have It!
He’s a first officer on a Boeing 777. He has not completed his ATPL yet because, as he put it, he does not need to. Now he is accused of having a fake license he has never held or purported to hold.
“There are dozens and dozens of pilots on this list that I can confirm have similar circumstances. People who have appeared during the day in the exam and operated a flight in the evening. For many of us based in cities where there aren’t exam centers it is easier to combine our exams with a flight to Karachi where exams are held daily, because we are unable to squeeze the days off required to fly there and appear for the papers in between flights.”
So in short, one suspect is a trained pilot with both his PPL and CPL and now stands accused of faking his ATPL, a license he has never claimed to have. Others are simply being accused of faking exams because they flew on the same day they took the exam, something that is demonstrably possible.
CONCLUSION
This “counterpoint” does not bury the issue, especially since several pilots at PIA have allegedly already come forward and admitted to holding fake credentials. But it does appear that there is more to the story and some pilots have been falsely accused.
I asked him why he reached out to me and quite candidly, he said:
“Our colleagues who are working abroad are going to lose their jobs. We might lose our jobs here. All over something unbelievably ridiculous and an abhorently reckless statement by our aviation minister. You’re a journalist, please uncover the story here.”
I’m just a blogger who loves writing about air travel, but his story sounds plausible to me and I am happy to share it here. As the situation develops, I hope he can go on the record and share more insight concerning what is going on at PIA.
> Read More: European Union Bans Pakistan International Airlines – Is Canada Next?
image: PIA
It does not appeal. This is one of the bad practices which the previous govt s especially PPP had been following. Now everyone has to pay the price now. This is just the beginning! YOU WILL HEAR MORE STORIES about docters and other professionals.
Mr Mathew US loved to have their puppet govts every where. So if no govt pays interest to US is objected by US. Pakistan had many leader’s that dictated interest of US. So now this issue is in part of US. You can not control the world. Then expect world to give merits a top priority. Now pakistan has no puppet govt. They are doing what it can to have merits. So don’t punish the present govt. Who has no interest of US. Pakistan has so many problems because of these puppet govts. Pakistan can succeed as pakistan interest matters not US. It is US who looks after it’s interest not anyone’s interest.
Very well said bro
Fake credentials amongst Pakis and Indians of various professions, not only airline pilots, is nothing new. Engineers, medical doctors, etc – is relatively common, and gives those countries in particular a bad reputation.
So in essence he was NOT licensed to conduct that flight. Nice but worthless description: yes, a ‘no-licence’ cannot be fake. What a load of bulldust.
This is clearly more complex than is being presented in the media. Doubtless there are some with simply fake credentials, falsified logbooks maybe, some who’d never sat the exams. This FO appears to be in a different scenario. He was flying as a First Officer, not the legal commander of the aircraft, on a CPL/IR licence with a presumably valid type rating on the 777. There is nothing illegal about that. Many European airlines uses to hire FO’s with a CPL/IR, not an ATPL, and we’re given ‘ATPL leave’ to go and pass the ATPL groundschool exams. The differences between the two groundschool syllabus are not great – climatology as well as meteorology for example. This guy sounds like he’s been unfairly caught up in the dragnet…
Mike ! Dont mix Pakistanis with Indians ! The most unfair comparison. Similar to comparing Cuba with USA.
Rajoo, do you remember the Aurang Abad plane crash of Air India in which the pilot was being intimate at the time of take off and the plane crashed?
You’re government currrntly is a puppet of the Chinese and the Taliban. See how Imran Khan called Osama Bin Laden a martyr.
You Imran haters have nothing better than condemning him ! If he called OBL martyr, what is wrong with it? I believe there
are hundreds of thousands who consider him martyr. If you have a bone of contention against IK, pl use some credible point.
They will take this issue to court, verdict will be in their favour. The aviation minister will say he was misguided by his reporting team. But the credibility and job of hundreds of hardworking professionals would already be destroyed.
This issue has nothing to do with the USA or its puppets. Imran Khan is a even a bigger puppet as he gave all the decision making power for Pakistan’s economy to IMF.
I really do not believe this is the whole truth. The people at the helm of affairs are no idiots. I have relatives who worked with PIA, and they have their versions. It was a whole lot of nepotism and worse.
He’s not remotely qualified… 5700 kilos is 12,566 lbs. One engine on a 777 weights more.
Further, it mentions nothing about being qualified on that particular airplane. Just cause you have a license to fly those weight airplanes, doesn’t mean you have an endorsement for the fleet type…
Scary dangerous…
Richard,. He is not qualified to operate those heavier aircraft as Captain. He is qualified to operate as a First Officer any aircraft of any size with his Commercial license. This is similar to how the U.S. (especially regional carriers) did things until just a handful of years ago. As to your second point of type rating, I am not aware of any claims of malfeasance for that procedure which is usually distinct from the licensing process.
Richard, you read it wrong. A CPL allows you to operate as a CAPTAIN anything under 5700kg but you may be a first officer without weight restriction. If all correct, this would not be a violation. Presumably he has the type rating for the aircraft in question because the accusations were that people didn’t have the correct licenses, not ratings.
What ever it is damaged has been done now. I will definitely think twice before flying on PIA.
The case is very simple and straight, if you don’t have ATPL, you shouldn’t be allowed to fly big planes.
This is the truth. Aviation minister needs to resign and write an apology.
This PTI Government Aviation Minister is FAKE by himself.He even can’t speak urdu properly.
PIA Pilots are professionals and have proper trainings.
You have no understanding of the technicalities if the issue. Please don’t post uninformed comments
Wish we all do our homework before making comments/accusations.
I haven’t heard anything like this before but our country minister is stupid. I request to the Army General to stop such things which spoil our reputation.
The minister is uneducated about flying & it’s training. He should be briefed. The concerned department should be questioned.
A year before, same thing happened in India also, but no body bothers. Their pilot are still flying. To me, it’s a dirty politics to lay off the staff from PIA. The pilot are being punished for not being obedient to the govt.
Brother our army general is also on fake I mean an extension of three years just because he is running the govt being invisible.
Again clearly a politcal agenda. Obviously anti pti gave this pilot courage to contact this blogger.
Do 5hese pilots suggest they cant even ask for a holiday on the day of their exam? Redicuous point only that can come from corrupt people. Weather politcian or pilots affilia5ed with them.
Well it’s common practice to blame the past governments for any problems arising presently. PIA has been running poorly with health & safety issues for many years. Including bad service & price hikings This government had 2 years to sort out most of the corruption in the airline industry before any incidents. It took 3 accidents & loss of 100s of innocent lives & still haven’t come to any real facts & figures
Forwarded:
Mr Abdul Jaleel on Induction into PIA by Benazir & Zardari..
Nothing is more shameful than this news that PIA is manned by Pilots with fake liscences/degrees who have made their way into the organization through Tests under proxy arrangements.. What a big fraud committed under state sponsored arrangements, specially during the ransaking and disgraceful days of PPP Rules.. This evil practice of recruitment was started back in 1988 with BB, Naheed Khan and Zardari making huge sums in the process.. The Ehtesab Commission under Late Justice Mujadid Mirza instituted references against BB, Zardari & Ahmed Sadiq and many others.. under charges of corruption and misuse of authority..
Zardari used to charge Rs I Million for the lucrative seat of a Pilot.. Since I was associated with Ehtesab Commission in the capacity of Chief Staff Officer to Justice Mujadid Mirza, I was a witness to many such frauds. These cases were shuffled between our various institutions, namely the Ehtesab Bureau and respective benches of he High Court.. Tariq Khosa made a detailed report as an Inquiry officer (IO) and recommended strict actions against all the culprits..
BB used to issue orders under her signature on Yellow strips… without putting any remarks on the file.. Ahmed Sadiq would put up a full note under his own signature..
During his cross examination in front of Justice Mujadid Saheb, he admitted that BB & Zardari used to charge fixed amount for such inductions…Almost 1600 such candidates were taken in senior positions by relaxation of the rules. References was filed against both Zardari and Benazir in the High Court bench, that was later withdrawn under NRO… This was a very big tragedy for our premier national institution…. Just imagine who now would give any credibility to PIA in international market after the disclosure of this scam by the international media like CNN, BBC etc…….. Severe punishment should be inflicted upon Fazal Pitchu, brother in Law of Zardari who in his capacity as Additional Secretary incharge Civil Aviation, made huge illegal appointments… He was the worst face of Zardari in the domain of Civil Services. He was never from the DMG Group but illegally inducted from the Provincial Civil Services of Sind… without any test or interview…. God knows how many more accidents could happen if we, even now fail to purge these fake degree holders in PIA….
Abdul Jalil
PSO to
Justice Mujadid Mirza,
Ehtsab Commission
This gives an inside story on degeneration of PIA over two decades starting in the late 80s. This first hand account is written by the principal staff officer of then judicial committee:
Forwarded: Mr Abdul Jaleel on Induction into PIA by Benazir & Zardari..
Nothing is more shameful than this news that PIA is manned by Pilots with fake liscences/degrees who have made their way into the organization through Tests under proxy arrangements.. What a big fraud committed under state sponsored arrangements, specially during the ransaking and disgraceful days of PPP Rules.. This evil practice of recruitment was started back in 1988 with BB, Naheed Khan and Zardari making huge sums in the process.. The Ehtesab Commission under Late Justice Mujadid Mirza instituted references against BB, Zardari & Ahmed Sadiq and many others.. under charges of corruption and misuse of authority..
Zardari used to charge Rs I Million for the lucrative seat of a Pilot.. Since I was associated with Ehtesab Commission in the capacity of Chief Staff Officer to Justice Mujadid Mirza, I was a witness to many such frauds. These cases were shuffled between our various institutions, namely the Ehtesab Bureau and respective benches of he High Court.. Tariq Khosa made a detailed report as an Inquiry officer (IO) and recommended strict actions against all the culprits..
BB used to issue orders under her signature on Yellow strips… without putting any remarks on the file.. Ahmed Sadiq would put up a full note under his own signature..
During his cross examination in front of Justice Mujadid Saheb, he admitted that BB & Zardari used to charge fixed amount for such inductions…Almost 1600 such candidates were taken in senior positions by relaxation of the rules. References was filed against both Zardari and Benazir in the High Court bench, that was later withdrawn under NRO… This was a very big tragedy for our premier national institution…. Just imagine who now would give any credibility to PIA in international market after the disclosure of this scam by the international media like CNN, BBC etc…….. Severe punishment should be inflicted upon Fazal Pitchu, brother in Law of Zardari who in his capacity as Additional Secretary incharge Civil Aviation, made huge illegal appointments… He was the worst face of Zardari in the domain of Civil Services. He was never from the DMG Group but illegally inducted from the Provincial Civil Services of Sind… without any test or interview…. God knows how many more accidents could happen if we, even now fail to purge these fake degree holders in PIA….
Abdul Jalil
PSO to
Justice Mujadid Mirza,
Ehtsab Commission
If his name there and he was on flight on exam day is also a big question mark how he clear that exam and who had given him green signal and vice versa all shoul be punished and bring to the court of Justice. This is very very bad impression in entire world and I saw many articles from foreigners and they said they will never fly in PIA again make me feel shameful as well. If they are not guilty then why they are worried to face legal action?
Regardless what he says he must not be allowed to fly a Boeing 777 because he has not finished exams. Every pilot must have a type rating in the airplane he or she is flying and therefore he broke the basic rules of safety. Pakistan Airlines must be shut down because it is the worst Airline as far as that safety is concerned. I’m i
a Pilot in the United States and I know the rules. You must take all the exams for airline transport pilot and pass them and then take a check ride with Federal Aviation Administration and then take a check flight for Triple 7 after proper training. All boils down to corruption and politics. You do not need 856 pilot to fly 23 airplanes.
Hold your horses Mr. If you’re a pilot then you should know that one can fly B777 as a first offices/co-pilot with only a CPL license, which the guy is doing. He’ll need to do his ATPL for a command later in his career. There is technically nothing wrong in the story that the fellow has shared so it is plausible.
There is more and more information coming that the PakCAA IT dept ran some kind of a logic check and WRONGLY picked up many names which had some other duty the same day that they gave their exam. Though it is absolutely possible, these fellows got wrongly accused.
I just feel some culprits wants to divert attention from recent PIA incident and to save their jobs, they put the whole Airline image on stake. I believe before they question pilots, the whole management should be corrected starting from GHULAM SARWAR! I still support PIA!
Please read the article again.. On CPL license he can fly any Irpkane as a co-pilot.. For taking a 5700+ kilo flight as a “Captain” the higher ATPL license is required..
Not true Parvez… one can train for and hold a Type Rating with a Multi-Engine CPL/IR. They can then fly as a First Officer on that type, and sit the exams for the ATPL while they work as an FO. Once passed as long as they meet all other requirements (100 hrs night flying etc), they can apply to do the ATPL skills test as part of their 6 monthly Boeing 777 simulator training as an LPC (License Proficiency Check). The ATPL is issued a few weeks later.
This is standard accros the world including the EU, where I am licenced. This guy is doing what most of the world does, as normal, and it is perfectly safe.
What an absurd argument! What is wrong in taking an exam on a day that you also flew as First Officer! Of course, if the flying time & the exam time were the same, then it is a different story. The guy mentioned he took the exam AFTER his flight.
But how does it matter? Bottom line is this pilot does NOT have an ATP license. Taking the first test of 8 does not mean you have an ATP license and you should not fly where one is required.
He is NOT flying where at ATPL is required… he is a First Officer and that only requires a CPL which he has and can fly as FO on ANY aircraft he’s rated on. The ATPL is if you want to fly as Captain on the larger aircraft.
As a First Officer he is supposed to operate the aircraft in case captain is disabled/dies. Can he handle the Captain’s duties? First Officer does not mean just lowering/raising undercarriage or flaps. He should be qualified to operate as captain, which requires ATPL
That is an impossible standard. You can’t grow captains out of no where. The US Air Force is the same… The copilot has had the same tests or training that the captain has taken.
Apparently, you are ignorant of the laws! The expert has testified that this is the practice all over, including the US!
But that’s the point. He wasn’t TRYING to fly where an ATPL is required. He’s a first officer working as a first officer with the correct qualifications to be a first officer. So why should his credentials be questioned? If he were flying as a captain of a 777 without an ATPL that would be a problem. But he’s not. In other words, Pakistan is now investigating a lot of pilots that don’t need to be investigated which is making the story look even worse than it is.
ATP license is not required to fly B777 as a first officer. The guy holds a CPL which is sufficient.
The guy doesnot need to have ATPL license to fly b777 aircraft as a first officer. He has a valid cpl license and the type rating is on that license. People need to educate themselves first before posting such comments.
Flying a commercial transport means hundreds of civil life’s are at stack. there should not be even 1% doubt in the ability of the pilot to safely fly. Furthermore there should be period test examination of the pilots.
This is totally concocted story published by Matthew Klint.
How can one fly an aircraft 777 and is going to Exam center to attempt the exam for ATPL. Who gives him permit to fly 777 even without ratings of 777 and ATPL certifications.
Totally bulshit and deserve to be treated justly.
Zeeshan,
You apparently do not understand how pilot licenses work. The pilot who contacted Matthew is flying as a First Officer and does not need an ATPL to fly as a first officer. He is rated on the 777 as a First Officer which is different than being rated as a Captain.
As a professional pilot this story seems very plausible to me. That pilots would choose to take an exam on a layover given the constraints he mentions rings true. Frankly the number of “fake” licenses always struck me as being high and the pilot’s story explains very well why that is the case.
I can also believe that given the recent accident which was pilot error on a truly epic scale (and that’s not a good epic but a bad epic) that some politician would be looking to score points and perhaps divert attention from other issues.
Matthew has done a nice job covering this story. His original story calling for PIA to be blacklisted was a fair response given the accident and what was being reported regarding pilot qualifications. Similarly this article is a very fair and well down article covering the other side of the story.
You have no idea Mr Gondal what you are talking about. He is a first officer and doesnt need an Atpl. He is a type rated 777 first officer and hence is flying one.
He could be next in line for a promotion to ATR command and hence has started appearing in ATPL papers. Please please check before you comment.
So he’s the FO on a triple. Does his CPL qualification allow him to fly that aircraft should the captain become disabled?
Yes he would be perfectly capable in an emergency where the Captain becomes disabled of flying the aircraft to a nearby field and landing it safely. Its one of the principle reasons we have two pilots on airliners.
Indeed as a CPL holder her can fly any aircraft type as a copilot / first officer that is endorsed on his license, which in this individual’s case is a B777. He has been trained accordingly and qualified as a first officer.
Now for him to command or be a Captain on any aircraft that weighs more than 12500 lbs or 7500kgs he needs to have an ATPL, after which the airline as per their policies and experience criteria trains him to become a Captain.
His explanation makes sense that he flew in to appear for the exam as he may have been based Lahore, and the exam being held in Karachi. There’s a footage to prove that, and he’s signed an attendance sheet.
The charges leveled need to be thoroughly in depth investigated; otherwise many stand to loose their livelihood hood in the country and abroad, whilst the country’s regulatory authority stands to loose all credibility.
To all desk-sperts, he operated a flight the same day but later, after he took his exam. So he wasn’t at two places at the same time. The algorithm used is just limited to link days and can’t see how it is different timings. Then again it’s also the utc time and local time issue, the algorithm hasn’t flagged some ppl who claim they did the same thing, so this proclaimed rock solid software is erroneous as well, which was never beta tested and flagged names of dead pilots too. The examination hall had cameras and thumb impression system for biometrics. The camera was also linked to higher ups office, DG or DDG (not sure which one). After all this if there was some cheating going on then get these higher ups to questioning instead of calling an individual after 2 years and asking him why he did 2 things in one day. And btw in his off time he is allowed to take any exam or read a book which isn’t a company requirement, it doesnt affect his duty limits. ALTP wasn’t required by the company. Use your brains please, why would someone pass 7 exams having more than 90 percent marks and cheat in the eight, I wouldn’t if I have even slightest situational awareness and risk rationalization sense in life. Have an open mind, look at the bigger picture and trace the history a bit.
Elders
Absolutely correct. The first officer has given Matthew the correct picture. Some people on this forum dont understand how this works.
There are Rules and Rules. Be it driving on the road or in the skies. Somehow, certain Cultures have decided that these Rules are often open to interpretation and/or manipulation. Who knows which Cultures or Territories decide how they interpret the Rules? Can we all work that one out?
I was an aircraft maint mgr n worked fr pan am, iran air and gulf air. I want to clarify first that pia
Pilots n aircraft ground engineers
Are well trained n they get 3 moths training. Engrs then go thru written and oral exams which are
Very much equivalant to british sys.
During the poer of ppp, i saw a mass influx of new employees in
Airport civil aviation authority, pia
Traffic dept , caa higher auth.
It probably gives a time frame to
Those investigating for the recruitment of many staff in pia traffic, civil aviation,n engineering dept. Without proper qualification.
An influential politician will not see qualifications but can get the
Right people recruited hoping That
They might learn to produce.
To be fair to pilots, now that the investigations have started, they shud be respected n treated fairly.
The aviation ministers diclosure
Of fake polit lisences was immature and without much background. I agree that pia a320
Crash was pilot error but there are
Many workd wide accidents which resulted in loss of precious lives. But no one cried n said i will not fly
This or that airline. Some one in govt pls have a thoro understanding of pia lisc sys. Then make the right decision
The basic problem lies with selection and training. PIA under Nur Khan’s brilliant leadership became such career-to-sart-and-stay-with organisation that Pakistani elites would want their brats to become pilots, by hook or by crook, muscling for their way into pilot cader. It is an open fact and no one can deny that these spoiled kids found a short-cut to a bright career regardless of qualities required to become a pilot. This is the same clout that has their grandchildren now flying PIA planes. This elite mafia controls PIA from within and flouts any standard meant for accountability and discipline. Pilots found drunk during flight operations is just a tip of an icebrg which never got any stern action except for a slap on the wrist. They have always taken things for granted and are used to desiring and getting what they don’t deserve in the first place. Flight training is a perk enjoyed by elites as they bankroll flying clubs for their delinquent and narcissistic, pampered children who are mostly school or college dropouts. Many of them will fail psychological and stress test, yet they are pilots, thanks to auto-pilot feature, otherwise there would have been much to see. Ironically, their personal car drivers would have to keep a valid driving license to pick-and-drop their kids off at the school.
All those who are critical of what the Pilot said to the Author are blinded to the fact tbat this Pilot and all others operating in Pakistan Aviation sector follow Rules & Regulations set by PakistanCAA PCAA in general and by their employing Airline in particular. PCAA holds over-sight over all Rules & Regulations set by each Airline operating in Pakistan. PCAA in-turn abides by Rules & Regulations guidelines set by ICAO and FAA. In this case PIA is being discussed as the pilot who spoke is employed by PIA so firstly whatever way the Pilot appeared in the exam was known to PIA as tens of other PIA pilots would have also appeared in exams like him, operating flight & appearing in exam on same day, before him and after him. Secondly, if PIA allows a co-pilot, without having ATPL, operate a commercial flight then how & why is the pilot at fault ? & PIA can not have such a rule in place without it being sanctioned by PCAA, which again can not be in clash with ICAO regulations. The said pilot has only stated/narrated his own story which again must be the story of many other PIA pilots so if anyone is to be questioned that is PCAA & PIA. But again, both these independent organisation’s would never have a rule or regulation which would be callous or contravene globally accepted aviation SOP’s for pilots & co-pilots. But still it will be in fitness of things to address this matter once and for all and to do this the microscope should first be focused on PCAA’s work and workings starting from 1980 till date. PCAA is the Manager of Aviation sector & if it has sanctioned favors to PIA or pilots over the years, then PCAA & its officials, retired or serving, should be publicly held accountable and their names and designations should be exchanged publicly & freely just like the names of Pilots are doing rounds in public, without any reason assigned or proof.
Dear Syed Saad, this is also blind to the fact that there are several notices that PCAA issued in the past but only got minimal attention due to PALPA’s interference in favor of its pilot members with the connivance of disciplinary board having politically connected influence in hiring of employees in the late 80s up until now. The problem is acute in every department of PIA due to hiring of non-technical staff for technical positions, assuming a few technical courses later on would be enough for their technical roles. PIA was a trend-setter that gradually turned into a Golden Goose by politicians who rewarded their party workers with thousands of artificially created jobs in PIA. The rules were never followed and nepotism was widespread as it was all about the network based on political, family, and friends influence. Simply proving that the regulations allowed pilots this relaxation or mismanagement because of all that is like passing a buck, which in fact stops at those who are actually part of internal network operating in PIA for decades.
Nice article. I wish there was more to the story to read.
What else is missing?
So the guy has a CPL and let’s assume a type cert for the 777. He’s an FO.
Capt has the required ATPL and he is incapacitated I flight.
Who captains the plane now? Not the FO he not qualified! Thus why all heavy aircraft commercial pilots must hold an ATPL.
He therefore doesn’t meet the required standard for heavy aircraft operations.
Mr. Perrin, just because you feel something should be the case doesn’t mean that it is. That’s not how reality works. A FO is not required to have an ATPL. End of story. If you strongly believe that a FO should be required to have an ATPL, I would suggest that you lobby the appropriate regulatory body to make it happen.
What ever it is damaged has been done now. I will definitely think twice before flying on PIA.
Dear Arif, this is the whole point that goes against rationality. The interest group PIA work their way through manipulation with regulatory bodies and become scot-free by saying that it was in the regulation so we were not at fault at all, rather it was the regulators who are to blame. This modus operandi has recurring pattern in other sectors of the country’s economy as well where these interest groups colluded with regulators who were politically appointed individuals to safeguard their interests, no matter how absurd or ridiculous those may sound.
Matthew, you’re spot on. My wife is a FO on the B777, has taken one exam of the 8 required for the ATPL, and we are horrified to find her name on the list. She has an impeccable safety record, and has consistent satisfactory ratings in all transitions and sims for all types she has been rated for. She’s also not the sort of person who would operate a flight on the day she took an exam (more likely to kick back and chill for the rest of the day), so the only plausible reason we can think of is that she perhaps had a regular medical check up that day. This is not even the annual full medical board, but one of those medical checks where you pop in, have your weight, blood pressure etc checked, and pop out, so it is possible that this happened after she took the ATPL part 1 exam. It’s insane that the list has been published without even a discussion with her, or any of the other pilots for that matter. Not only that, but the list apparently includes names of deceased individuals in addition to other inaccuracies. Just the casualness with this list was disclosed makes me suspect that there are other motives at work than a desire to unearth fake licenses.
You redeemed yourself (just a little) after the last “exposé”. This isn’t a counterpoint, it’s the true picture. Everyone has been wrongly accused all due to poor administration of Civil Aviation. On the list, many of the pilots fly for other carriers so there is no way the licenses were unverified, some are deceased, some retired. I hope you realize that Pakistan is getting hammered from every possible corner right now. A political analyst once said that if Pakistan wants to remain, it must go to war with itself. Too many invisible hands in the country, tearing it apart.
PIA, at one time was one of the top airlines. It was known for its sophistication and class. They had great pilots. They helped in establishing Emirates airline. Now look where Emirate stands, and where do we stand. PIA has deteriorated and the irony of it is that every new government that has come, looked for its own interests. They recruit their own people, have their own politics. The amount of people PIA has recruited, is more then what they require. That’s why PIA is so burdened and financially they are going in loss. I hope the present government can help our national carrier get back on its feet and restore it to its former glory.
Dear Mathew,
In hindsight 20/20….
The issue is not just about CPL vs ATPL, it’s much more deep. Sorry, it’s a matter of human lives, no holds barred anymore, therefore, the following links from the media are being shared here, exposing substandards wreaking havoc with human lives.
https://twitter.com/DoreenKiani/status/1276789292438822912/photo/1
https://en.baaghitv.com/criminal-pilots-involved-in-the-downfall-of-pia/
https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://en.baaghitv.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Pilot-Suspended.pdf&hl=en
https://twitter.com/creedplus/status/1275812305759019010/photo/1
https://twitter.com/creedplus/status/1275812305759019010/photo/2
https://twitter.com/creedplus/status/1276190847571300354/photo/1
https://twitter.com/creedplus/status/1276190847571300354/photo/2
Here are some facts which are dreadful to even think about:
1- Sims are not considered important as training hours spent there are not counted toward flying hours.
2- Many co-pilots have actually been “flying” planes with impunity, so much so that some of them even reached their retirement.
3- There is a mentality around knowing just basic essentials of flying a passenger airplane.
4- Completing all eight papers seemed impossible to many due to weak academic background, complacency, and mentality of taking short-cuts in life since the beginning.
5-Appearing in a few papers was just a placebo to show PCAA (which was also mellowed in tone and compromised due to political interference) that the pilot is on that path of passing exams. No where else in the world does this work like that.
PIA was once one of the top airlines with class and sophistication. It had great pilots. It helped establish Emirates. Now look where Emirate is and how PIA has deteriorated. Any new government that comes recruits its own people and thinks of its own vested interests and politics. PIA has a certain amount of posts and seats on which people should be working. But it has an overload of recruited people. It has employees beyond its capacity. So that’s why our national carrier is burdened and going in financial loss. I hope the present government can salvage what is left of it an bring it back to its former glory.
They will take this issue to court, verdict will be in their favour. The aviation minister will say he was misguided by his reporting team. But the credibility and job of hundreds of hardworking professionals would already be destroyed.
Unfortunately, there’s a nexus in judiciary, provincial government and PIA employees and pilot unions. The same maneuver used to oust its chairman when he came down hard on shoddy practices in PIA. The employees are definitely playing a blame game as the situation has become catach-22 for them with the release of documents and warning letters. But please, don’t plead for jobs when hundreds of families were destroyed and the airline reputation went down even below the worst performing airlines just because of cronyism.
Yeah You are right Rajoo, india has 4000 fake pilots, almost 10 times more than pakistan, there is no comparison