Some passengers book one business class seat or use an upgrade and trade use of the seat, splitting time between coach and business class. Is this right? Fair? Is it wrong?
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Have You Seen This Before?
On a long-haul flight from Newark to Tokyo, I found a family switching seats to share a single business class seat with three family members, each taking a turn (plus a baby). A gentleman took his seat in front of me ahead of the 13.5-hour journey. He immediately went to sleep and then got up about four hours into the flight, requested his pre-ordered meal (which they failed to execute because business class meal service remains a challenge) and he ate what he was given.
He then reset his seat, walked through the curtain behind us to coach and (presumably) his mother-in-law found the seat, set it up as a lie-flat bed, and slept for another four hours or so. She left the seat to be replaced by her daughter, the gentleman’s partner. Each passenger held the seat for near equal time, the child there just for the first stretch.
Is It Ethical?
Personally, my family wouldn’t do this. If we can’t or don’t want to spend the money or points for business or first-class seats for all of us (including my daughter) then we fly in coach or don’t take the trip.
We have encountered this before coming back from South America on coach tickets when one upgrade request cleared but not the other for my wife and our (then) lap infant daughter. We sat in the back and gave the upgrade to the premium cabin away to the next in line.
That being said, it reminds me of the Hidden-City ticket debate from a few months ago. On one hand, it’s that family’s seat to use. Other passengers and commenters have told me that because they are 6’5” tall, they should get main cabin extra seats or upgrades over my daughter because her feet don’t yet touch the floor.
I wholeheartedly disagree. It’s my seat to use how I like even if that means Yao Ming rides with his knees up against a seat while my daughter’s dangle off the edge.
Then again, I am pretty sure it violates the contract of carriage and certainly the intent of the airline. United (and any other carrier) has the right to enforce their rules as they see fit. Sharing a seat amongst three (and a half) passengers is likely a violation and the originally ticketed party should have stayed in the seat for the duration.
As a Fellow Passenger, It Doesn’t Change My Experience
The male passenger wanted to hold his lap infant for takeoff. The flight attendant got permission from the purser to allow it. Kids can be funny on airplanes and anything that keeps them calm, I fully support them.
Even with the revolving door that was 17L, it wasn’t really my problem. They weren’t noisy and my experience wasn’t impacted other than when the man made quite an emotional display regarding his meal. Then again, I decided to write a post on the matter so who am I to judge?
If it doesn’t impact me personally, should I care? Would you care?
Does it Matter if it Was an Upgrade vs. Paid vs. Redemption?
While I am raising the topic I remain undecided about the following. Does it make a difference to our readership the way the seat was acquired? Does it matter whether the seat was an upgrade (maybe they tried to clear three seats but only one made it), an award booking (subject to availability) or paid for with cash?
I don’t know that it changes anything for me, but some Facebook groups differentiate the manner by which they came about the seat regarding the rights and privileges of those passengers.
Would you share a single business class seat between three passengers? Do you think that others should be able to?
Disclaimer:
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UA has long had a policy (assuming unofficial) that you could do one mid-flight switch, but that was it…I don’t see a big deal with that. Two switches pushes a bit, but IMO still not a big deal.
Coming up every hour or so, chatting at the seat, etc. would be a bridge too far.
Like everything in life the guy got value because he was the only one doing it. If everyone in the business class did that it would be chaos and the guy wouldn’t get as much value. We see that in MS as well. People get value if others are not doing it (so banks don’t crack down. )
Most of the “disruptors” are actually assholes with very little regard for others. Some of them come up with something that benefits a lot of us (like uber, airbnb) but they start off (probably still are) as assholes with no regard for norms, laws etc.
I was listening to NPR about how put growers in california want protection now that pot is legal and the prices have crashed. They were assholes when they were growing pot illegally. It was all about money for them. Now that it is legal (which they tried to make ust for money not out of consideration of society) they want protections.
So in summary you have to think of people like this guy as assholes. They not only want to do what they are doing but want others to NOT do what they are doing so they can get maximum value.
Make sense?
@Debit – Why is the guy an asshole? How did he disrupt the fellow passengers anymore than someone who gets up frequently to use the restroom?
They not only want to do what they are doing but want others to NOT do what they are doing so they can get maximum value.
This “debate” is ridiculous. He paid for the seat, one way or another, and if they are using it to get some sleep, then so be it. Your assumption that he didn’t use it the way you thought it should be used is irrelevant. Get off your high horse, some cannot afford for everyone to fly business or first. I applaud him for being so resourceful
His ticket is non transferable. The end. All the biz classes by many diff carriers that I have been in had my name on their passenger list and that was the only person eho could be sitting there. Stop being ridiculous and don’t be a cheapo.
Non sense. Do you go to restroom in 13-hour flight? Everyone does. Does it make your cabin chaotic?
Similarly, why do corn and soybean farmers get protection but cannabis farmers don’t? Because you don’t like weed? So, whether a person is asshole or not depends on your precious opinion? That sounds pretty asshole to me.
Why is the price of legal weed about the same as illegal weed? Shouldn’t the price have come down dramatically by it not being illicit in nature which drives up cost. Weed prices should be much lower than the dispensaries are selling it for.
None of the farmers should get protection. At least they shouldn’t if Republicans truly were hands off economists. But they are not. They are hypocritical assholes that are anti regulation only about certain things.
LOL. Just……..LOL. he bought the seat. He can use it however he wants.
Agreed!!!
makes sense that people with entitlement complex will push their ability to gain benefits for themselves which would destroy the context if applied at scale, because yes, despite some of the naysayers, if everyone did what this person did, the tranquility typically associated with a premium airline ticket would be gone… similar to a large group of Chinese tourists who flew from PRC to Thailand a while ago, everyone was kept from onboarding until they hand back the utensils given during mealtime, turns out everyone had kept it as souvenir… stealing small things like that works out OK when only a few does it, but doesn’t scale… from a safety perspective, switching the weight is against regulations since the Captain is in charge of that, and if you scale up a switch involving an unusual large difference in weight of passengers, it could interrupt the flight operations… so no, not ok, and to the ignorant people who thinks you “buy” a seat and can do with it what you want, boy are you wrong, but too wrong for me even to bother explaining how much… just go suck on a duck instead…
Brilliant! I have to do this on the long haul flights since I can only sleep no more than four hours anyway.
I’ve switched w my wife once midlfight on LHR-CLT. One of two upgrades cleared as we were boarding.
Flying LAX-HKG a few years back, Ricky Williams (the Heisman winner) sat behind me in biz and switched off with two ladies in the back multiple times during the flight.
I don’t much have an issue with it as long as the FAs are okay with it.
I would 100% do this. I think the execution makes all the difference- if the switch is seamless and quiet then why should anyone else care?? If the family is huddled around and the switch is loud and disruptive, then it wouldn’t be okay. That’s probably why it’s left to the flight attendants’ discretion.
Agreed. Great idea for couples on a budget and no air miles.
Years ago, as the purser on a TWA flight to Madrid, a couple upgraded to F/C using miles. Their daughters, age 8 and 11 were in J. When the F/C service started, both daughters came up to F/C and stood by their parent’s seats, eating off of their plates. I politely told them that could not continue. The wife demanded to “see it in writing”. J was half empty and I offered to reseat everyone together there. Offer refused. Ultimately, “mom” started a screaming match in front of other F/C passengers. She sniffed and huffed for the rest of the flight, but I firmly returned the children to their assigned seats. I also wrote our frequent flier staff about mom’s disgusting behavior. Never heard a word.
Why’d you have to do that?! I don’t get it. If the kids were decently behaved, then there’s no reason that they shouldn’t be able to sit with their parents in F for meal time.
Sounds like you were just upset that they upgraded using miles. Shame on you!
Aaron, did you read that all the way through, where he offered to seat the kids in first class?
The children stood by their parents’ seats to eat off their plates. No one, children especially, should be standing blocking aisles while in flight, much less during a meal service. That safety issue alone should have been more than sufficient reason for that huffing, puffing, indignant and loudmouthed mother to shut up and put her children back in THEIR seats, buckled up.
Wow! I think the ladies behavior was inappropriate. Though, I do agree that if you say I’m breaking a rule, prove it to me! Don’t persecute me for something you THINK I’ve done wrong.
Passengers like this lady make the entire environment toxic and unpleasant for others. The way she handled it was absurd.
Thank you Larry! As a paying FC passenger I don’t want somebody’s kids standing in the aisle occcupying space and getting in the way, that DOES in fact interrupt my quiet enjoyment of the experience.
“came up to F/C and stood by their parent’s seats, eating off of their plates.”
That is just…wrong on so many levels.
I’m only replying to this thread because it seems relevant. Why would parents or the airline allow the parents to sit in 1st class and leave 2 YOUNG children alone in cabin class? Is it the FAs job to baby sit? I think it’s just irresponsible parenting.
I’m sorry, but I find it utterly disgusting that you raise a concern with this situation. As you pointed out, this has no effect on other passengers. So why would you care? While I’ve always had enough points to fly my entire family in business class, I find nothing wrong with that family stretching their hard earned money the way they did. Again, very disappointed you raised a concern with this. Feels like affluent privilege talking…
^Someone didn’t read the article and really wanted an opportunity to bluster. Go read the author’s opinion Jason, then try again.
If merely reading an article makes you utterly disgusted, you must be disgusted literally ALL the time. Can you provide some examples of things you’ve read that don’t disgust you? What about the nutrition facts labels on WheatThins? Disgusted? Or, say, shampoo ingredients? Also disgusted? Boy, best not to read the news right now then because yours in for a real doozy! You’ll be so disgusted you just might implode as some sort human disgust blackhole, sucking matter and light and reasoning and – most importantly – hyperbole out of nearby humans.
TL:DR – Get a grip.
@larry above – wow, what a story. I have had plenty of EK and EY flights and even an LH flight where staff/nanny/kids come up from a lower class into F. Into C, it doens’t matter quite as much, because the cabin is much larger, but any extra movement in F is noticeable. To put my actions where my mouth is, I have ended up with a few situations where I was in F and my family in C or v.v. and we’d always “meet” in the lower class. That is the way to do it. Nothing wrong with spending time together, but NEVER in the higher category cabin. Also I get VERY annoyed when Y pax use J toilet. Especially since I’d never do that myself, and in the few times it’s been urgently necessary (mid-flight during service) I got denied…
Oh please! A few airlines even have a place for an accompanied passenger to sit for the meal by the F class seat. During the meal if an 8 and 11 year old kid that’s fairly behaved is in the cabin, nothing’s going to happen!
I fly premium classes myself and I never mind if a well behaved kid is spending time with the parents in the premium cabin, even if they themselves are sitting in Y.
You don’t have to be so stuck up just because you paid lots of money for your seat.
“A few airlines even have a place for an accompanied passenger to sit for the meal by the F class seat.”
Which airlines have that?
No. Passengers in F should stay in F, J in J, other than for the briefest time. I recall having Rafael Nadal’s butt more or less stuck in my face for an extended period , when he decided to come from F into J to chat with some friends and stood in the aisle, forever. I was tempted to shove an ice cube down his pants, but thought better of it.
I actually believe that this is a completely ethical practice, so much that I wish airlines offered this sort of option for really long flights off their bat. There is nothing wrong with this idea as long as there is not a major disturbance caused by the constant switching of seats. Personally, I believe that the family in your post did nothing wrong.
Yeah, if the FAs have no issue with it…not sure why you do.
Don’t most business and first class seats actually come with an ottoman or other side-seating for a visitor? Most airlines promote this feature in their advertising and show two people dining together, for example. So surely they must promote this behavior? Can’t possibly see anything wrong with this as long as other passengers are not disturbed.
This ottoman seats allow eating together (spend time togehter) on one table in first class is ment to passengers from the SAME cabin class/section, NOT from an other cabin class/section!
I’ve actually asked if I could do this on a flight between YYZ and PEK on AC before. I was in J and my brother was in Y. I wanted to do a switch part way through and the FA said no. Paraphrasing it, she said that people, including myself, paid a lot of money to sit at the front and that the rule was there to respect that. It seemed fair enough to me, but I could also understand makong exceptions to that.
My wife and I do this all the time on United. We ask the FA if they are cool with it and we always do it outside of any service so it doesn’t cause disruption. So far no problems and it’s been a great beenfit. It normally happens as a result of an upgrade not clearing.
I recently flew on an el al flight, paid business class seat. When I booked my husband’s ticket on the same return flight, no business class seats were available. After asking permission to do do, I switched seats with him for about an hour.
Thank you El Al.
Where does it stop? I book a business seat and rent it to 3 different people in coach. Each of the 3 drink their fill, nap, etc. I end up recouping a chunk of money. Ok?
I’m imagining an app where I could ‘sub-let’ my lie-flat seat to a Y or PE pax for a block of hours.
Maybe I could make enough to pay for my ticket?
😉
this is ingenious! #troublemakers aka #disruptors make the world better!
Hmmmm,good business idea
If you don’t cause an unreasonable amount of noise, or use the switch to consume an unreasonable amount of food/alcohol; there should be no problem and FAs have no business telling you to not switch (unless there is some weird safety aspect, perhaps emergency exit stuff, but essentially there isn’t any).
My wife and I do this all the time on United. We ask the FA if they are cool with it and we always do it outside of any service so it doesn’t cause disruption. So far no problems and it’s been a great beenfit. It normally happens as a result of an upgrade not clearing.
Call me old-fashioned, call me an asshole, whatever. If you aren’t assigned the seat, you don’t belong there. I pay for my seats, and I hate seeing people trying to get things they didn’t pay for.
I also hate economy customers using F or J lavs too.
I also also hate DYKWIA upgraders.
Ok. Just understand that those same people in Y are paying for your salary whatever you may be doing, and they’re also paying for the flight too. Without those so called Y people you wouldn’t have a way to fly.
Not necessarily true. I usually fly LON to JFK on a very nice plane that doesn’t have any Y passengers!
“those same people in Y are paying for your salary”
You don’t know that.
“Without those so called Y people you wouldn’t have a way to fly.”
Maybe, but they still shouldn’t using F or J lavs if they’re economy passengers only (though I’m not against people traveling together and switching seats throughout the fight once or twice if they’re in different cabins).
What does this even mean? Are you assuming that Drank is a business owner and that people on that plane make him money, whether as employees or customers?
Is that actually what you’re trying to say? If so, you have some deep issues and should get that chip on your shoulder checked.
That last part is equally asinine: are you actually attenuating this such that you thought referencing an alternate reality where poor people don’t exist was a good point? You poor, tortured soul.
I have done a few times with my wife on UA flights. As mentioned by some I think the policy at UA is you can change seat once during the flight and not multiple times.
Agreed it’s all in the execution. Obviously sharing a seat for recouping costs (some sort of app) is completely beyond the pale and not the situation above. Again, as long as the execution doesn’t affect the other passengers (subtly & finesse) and FA’s do not have an issue, then by all means, share away.
I’m a stickler for rules – I’m one of those people who get a paper ticket and read the fine print on the back! Lol …mainly because I want to be aware of my rights as a passenger. But, I’m also a stickler for exploring loopholes, unwritten ruled (“traditions”) and challenging society norms.
My two cents, if people are pleasant and courteous, while not bothering other passengers, I have no problem with it as long as it isn’t against the rules.
First off, let’s also remember the sanctity of C class, NOT. My recent long haul United flight was marred by the FA negotiating personal payment for inflight upgrades. Kind of disgusting to those that paid the legal way. Frank also ruined the flight for me in other ways.
If the switch is done quietly and within normal limits it sounds fair but I am sure some FA would raise a problem. The closest experience I had to this was on JETBLUE. I politely made room for a FA to pass me by pushing into an empty row. rather than thanks I was scolded as it seemed I was trying to sit in an extra legroom row without paying. This was after a 6 hour delay/meltdown of JetBlue operations in South Florida.
On a BA flight to LA a couple of years ago (upper deck, second J cabin, half full), the lights were dimmed about 3.5 hours in when lunch was over. A couple came through from the back of the plane (Y or PE) and sat in a couple of empty seats. People had moved around, and the FAs didn’t notice. The way they timed it, I guess they do this regularly.
I told one of the FAs that the guy in the seat next to me had moved forward. He came up with some lame excuse about needing space, but he was sent packing. His companion stayed put in her seat across the aisle and started at me. She was soon moved to.
If you want to fly in a premium cabin, get a premium ticket.
A rear facing seat is useful sometimes!
My personal opinion as a very frequent (economy through long haul first) flyer with lifetime status:
If they are simply using the seat I have no problem with it. One seat, one person. It’s really irrelevant whose rear end is planted in it. However, if they’re switching out during meal service, etc, with the expectation that they each get a business class meal (or whatever perk) when only one has purchased it (whether it be with cash or points) that’s another issue entirely.
Basically, I don’t have a problem with seat swapping as long as it’s not being used to abuse the system.
I’ve never done it, but I always thought the generally accepted etiquette is that one discreet mid-flight switch is fine. (As long as its not being abused to double-up on meals or drinks.)
Absolutely not.
That ticket belongs to one passenger. End of.
Whoever has bought it needs to use it.
All the carriers I have experienced won’t allow it anyway and I side with that.
Imagine a long haul flight in a fc cabin, having people coming back n forth to Switch several times during the flight. When more than one cheapo does it, other cheapos will follow.
Stop being a cheapo.
Buy a seat and stay there.
Please.
No. It’s cheap, vulgar and tacky. People purchase premium seats for the comfort and quiet. That should not be compromised by interloping cheapskates shuffling around on shift changes. They want their cake and to eat it too: let them eat cake in economy.
Yes! Finally something about provisions definition.
Ridiculous! Why would anyone care? They didn’t bother any other passenger, except maybe being smarter than the entitled frequent flyer with a blog.
Then again, seat numbers used to identify corpse in case of accident, and switching can cause your corpse to be unidentified.
Reading the comments of some of the so called upper classes here who have only contempt for those with a lower standing, make me feel that the time is ripe for another people’s revolution like the french revolution.
Off with their heads those who have no empathy for the poor and downtrodden.
As long as they don’t disturb anyone who cares. I’ve done the same thing. Requested upgrade for me, wife and kid but only mine cleared flying from London to Chicago. I sat down for take off and then switched with wife so she could sleep. Nobody complained or wrote about it.
Well, this one particular blog writer seemed very interested on such issue, even tough nobody complained about it, even FA. Who knows….
People should stay in the class they bought. If you want people to come up from Y to J to eat off your plate, get a drink or any other reason, you should have bought them a ticket in J. It is often disruptive, especially on overnight flights. That said, it is not my duty to enforce that. It is the airline’s, specifically the FA’s, duty to enforce that – if they wish. I’ve seen FA’s call out passengers on this.