Sometimes stories are not what they first seem. A female passenger claims a United Airlines flight attendant threatened and shamed her when she refused to move seats for a Jewish passenger on a flight from Tel Aviv. But now the man has come forward and claimed the woman is a liar and there was no religious discrimination. A video of a galley conversation with a flight attendant has also emerged. There’s a fair bit to unpack here.
Woman Claims Gender Discrimination On United Airlines Tel Aviv Flight But Seatmate Says She Is Lying
Let’s first review what both sides agree on:
- The incident occurred on August 15, 2023 on UA85 from Tel Aviv (TLV) to Newark (EWR), operated by a Boeing 787-10
- A woman was asked to move seats by a male passenger wearing a yarmulke
- She refused, claiming gender discrimination
- A flight attendant intervened and threatened to cancel the flight
Now, let’s first examine what the woman, Israeli journalist Neria Kraus, claims:
- Her Haredi Jewish seatmate tried to “force” her to move seats so he would not have to sit next to a woman
- An United flight attendant, who was Israeli, approached her and yelled at her, warning the flight would not take off
- Three “amazing” seatmates, including two Israeli men and a women, supported her
A @united crew member yelled at me that the flight to NYC won’t take off because of me – after I refused to Ultra Orthodox passengers’ request to change my seat. I was told the flight might touch down in Egypt and it would be my fault. What a humiliating event for me as a woman.
— נריה קראוס Neria Kraus (@NeriaKraus) August 15, 2023
But the male passenger claims:
- On the United 787-10 (3-3-3 configuration in economy class), he was seated in the center section on one aisle set, his son in the middle set, the woman on the other aisle seat, and his son’s friend on the aisle seat across her
- He asked her to switch an aisle for aisle so that his son and his friend could sit next to one another
- When he removed his cap to reveal a yarmulke, the woman falsely assumed she was being asked to move for religious reasons and began screaming abut discrimination
- He then politely told her she did not have to move, but she kept yelling
- A flight attendant turned up and said that if they were fighting, the flight would be cancelled
Here are the words of the man directly (in English):
טוב גבירותיי ורבותיי כתבת חדשות 13 נריה קראוס סיפרה אתמול ש״חרדים רצו שהיא תעבור מקום בטיסה בגלל שהיא אישה״, היא צילמה את האדם הזה שהוא בעל משפחה ואדם מאד מוכר בברוקלין, הציוץ שלה הגיע למעל מליון צפיות וגם להחברים שלו שנדהמו ופנו אליי במשך כל היום, ״אין סיכוי, הבן אדם הזה מארח… pic.twitter.com/KkC4M1aYKP
— daniel amram – דניאל עמרם (@danielamram3) August 16, 2023
I agree with One Mile At A Time that to shame a woman for not changing seats or to shout at her and claim that her unwillingness to switch seats will delay the flight is absurd and beyond basic human dignity. I’ve written about these sorts of incident before…there are certain sects of Judaism in which males believe they cannot sit next to female passengers (unless she is a spouse or sibling). This is called Shomer negiah.
> Read More: EasyJet Settles With Woman Who Was “Forced” To Move Seat To Accommodate Religious Passengers
> Read More: Would You Have Switched Seats?
My fist instinct was to side with Ms. Kraus here because of a follow-up video she posted in which a flight attendant appears to apologize to her and back up her account of what occurred onboard:
בואו נשים סוף להתרת הדם והשקרים. הנה קטע של שיחה על המטוס עם דייל שנכח באירוע. הוא שאל מה שלומי וביקש להתנצל. והנה הוא מספר כאן הכל. והכל ברור. כל מה שאמרתי אמת. כל היתר – שקרים. פשוט תצפו בעובדות לנגד עיניכם. pic.twitter.com/qnVfIbg4uP
— נריה קראוס Neria Kraus (@NeriaKraus) August 16, 2023
But I am simply not sure…
CONCLUSION
A viral story shaming a United flight attendant for making a female passenger switch seats to accommodate an observant male passenger has been called into question. That male passenger in question has now voiced his side, which represents a very different account of what occured. But I want to think Kraus’s account is more accurate based upon a just-posted video of a conversation with a flight attendant in the galley, but I have my strong doubts.
If your religion requires certain seating arrangements on airlines, it is incumbent upon you to take care of it in advance and even book extra seats if necessary. But asking someone to swap and aisle for an aisle seat so that a party can be seated together does not strike me as unreasonable.
Dan from Dan’s deals is doing an investigation and posting about the interviews he has had from eye witnesses
Can follow here
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/united/eyewitness-shares-saw-happen-united-flight-85-no-discrimination/
This is absurd. She screams discrimination because a man asked her to switch seats (because she was a woman).
What a snowflake.
Matthew, while you did better than Ben and rush to post while not allowing time for other witnesses to speak out, I think you still got the story wrong. A. It can’t possible be discrimination when the man was initially seated next to a MALE, therefore it is clear that when he asked to switch it was nothing to do with female vs. male but as the man himself stated and backed up by multiple eye witnesses, in order that his son should be seated near his friend, In fact, a 3rd party, a FEMALE, at that, ended up sitting next to him, So much for discrimination! B. Multiple eye witnesses support the man’s version of the story, as documented by Dan @ Dansdeals and this journalist was simply looking to stit things, unfortunately.
The father asked for his son because the son wouldn’t even talk to a woman.
That is not what happened. None of them were initially sitting next to a female. It has zero to do with sexism. This journalist took the opportunity to create a massive scene, and then won’t back down because of her ego, even when it is clear that she instigated the whole thing.
Humans will be judgmental and discriminate to anything, unfortunately. Man, woman, race, religion, anything.
FLYING HAS BECOME more of a course in Social Psychology. Or ‘fine cuisine’ whichever way you want to look at it. lol.
Matthew should sick to his ‘Flying and Fine Cuisine’ critiques instead of dabbling in Social Psychology, lol. !
thats “stick to”…(we need editing capability, Matthew, thanls! lol,)
If she’s indeed lying, there’s a few travel blog grifters who seriously need to wonder if it’s time to sell the business and retire with that wife of his (General Motors) and their accessories (Unwashed Dog and Kilometer).
Is there any benefit in sharing an image of the man and woman?
To me it feels like nothing in your post benefits from this picture. So why are you sharing pictures of (maybe) innocent people who then can be shamed for their supposed behaviour?
If it was you Matthew, falsely accused, would you like to see your face on every news site?
She lied. Switching aisle seats is such an easy thing to do and would benefit everyone – except for this lying prima donna – what the hell is wrong with these selfish, entitled liars is beyond comprehension.
To those who say she is lying, what do you make of the her galley conversation?
The video doesn’t provide much evidence. The flight attendant was merely repeating the story as he heard it from fellow fliers who heard the woman yell “discrimination.” The flight attendant did not witness the exchange and could not possibly know exactly what happened, other than through hearsay- whoever screams louder..in this case, the woman.
There is not much to see in that video besides the FA trying to get her to feel “heard”, and getting her to calm down. The FA has absolutely zero knowledge of what actually happened, and even if she did, had no interest in engaging in a combative conversation with someone who was clearly unhinged. De-escalation is the name of the game. What matters is multiple eyewitnesses who saw what actually happened.
To those who say she is not lying, what do you make of the numerous witness accounts that Dan has shared on DansDeals?
Matthew, one thing that I admire a lot about your blogging in general is that you try to get the whole story right and maintain balance. In this case, I think you missed the mark though. Have you had the chance to read through all of the coverage which Dan has done on this story?
There is no indication from her tweets or the stories put forth by the other passengers that any flight attendants heard the reason for the seat switch request. They only got involved after she refused (and by 4 accounts so far, made a scene).
What the galley video shows me is that she was surreptitiously recording conversations throughout the flight, and this is the closest she got to corroboration. Her story falls flat.
What is undisputed:
1) The man she posted a photo of (which was seen by millions) sat next to a woman for the flight!
2) If you look at Jewish travel forums – such as Dansdeals – when the story broke, even before the video of Nigel was published, Orthodox Jews immediately doubted Neria’s story because it didn’t pass the sniff test.
3) Three unrelated passengers have corroborated his story, but none have corroborated hers.
The video, as well, doesn’t provide much evidence. The flight attendant was merely repeating the story as he heard it from fellow fliers who heard the woman yell “discrimination.” The flight attendant did not witness the exchange and could not possibly know exactly what happened, other than through hearsay- whoever screams louder..in this case, the woman.
So it’s he said vs she said so far?
By now there has been eyewitness reports from people who were right there. As linked earlier from Dansdeals.
The direct cause of this problem is the government banning people from starting and operating airlines for specific groups. If Orthodox Jews want to start an airline that only caters to Orthodox Jews and has strict protocols about male/female seating, why would anyone have a problem with this. If Gays or Whites want airlines that only sell tickets to Gays or Whites, why shouldn’t they be able to create and operate them if every group is free to start their own airlines that cater to them. As long as people are denied the freedom of association to do business with whom they please, there will always be these problems and commotion. If gays want to start a bakery that only sells cake to verified gays, why as a straight person would I want to ban them from doing so.
“But asking someone to swap and aisle for an aisle seat so that a party can be seated together does not strike me as unreasonable” is it reseñable to scream if someone refuse to move?
It is not mandatory to agree to change one’s sit.
Correct. But the reason seems clear enough to me: not because she is a woman.
Switching aisle to aisle is not necessarily a fair deal. Given the ABC-DEF-JKL config, when you’re traveling alone in F, you may or may not have to get up to let E out. But when you’re in J, you’re obligated to let KL out. So to her this was a bad deal.
Hahahaha, please more of the wonderful commentary, I can’t get enough. Joe six pack from Little Rock and Karen complainer from Orange County trying to deconstruct the intricate mechanics of what these crazy jews are up to is just fantastic. Lord knows even Moses himself couldn’t make sense of it.
Yeshiva is getting ready to start back up in the Five Towns, got to get the youngins back.
Keep your derogatory comments to yourself. You have no class.
Easy solution: All Haredi should fly El Al… they definitely know how to deal with these situations. I was working to and from Tel Aviv as a Flight Attendant and Service Manager years before either United or Delta were flying there. We often encountered these scenarios during boarding with Haredi Jewish passengers. Apparently, several groups of the different Haredi sects preferred TWA because we were more “accommodating “ than El Al. True story.
Jews… if you can’t beat them, burn them…
Matthew, Did you proofread this article before publishing?
Let me answer your question with a question: what did you find?
Just look at the man- he is clearly not haredi. He is simply wearing a kippah and would have no objection about sitting next to a woman
It happens to me before, and to other freinds. Haredi men needs a bette impulse control training or book empty sits.
Now they want to keep womb in the back of the buses on in certain days only in national parks
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/12/world/middleeast/israel-women-rights.html
I would believe her if she wasn’t a journalist. Journalists, working in a rapidly declining industry, are prone to exaggerating and creating their own clickbait because it’s the only way they know how to make a living in a world where loudness takes precedence over truth.