A leaked slide deck suggests that United Airlines is pulling further ahead of American Airlines as the preferred hometown carrier at Chicago O’Hare (ORD), but is AA on an irreversible death spiral or simply in need of returning to the basics?
Local Favorite: United Airlines Widens Lead Against American Airlines In Chicago O’Hare
Internal slides obtained by aviation insider JonNYC show a widening gap between American and United in Chicago O’Hare for local traffic, with United now holding a 22-point advantage.
In 2015, 38% of local traffic at ORD belonged to United and 39% to American. Since then, United has built up its domestic and global route network, and the numbers are telling: in 2024, United jumped to 51% of local passenger share while American dropped to 29%.
United was just awarded six additional gates at ORD (at the expense of AA, though there is potential litigation brewing) and plans further expansion, though AA is also growing again in Chicago with a new route to Madrid (MAD) having launched on March 30, 2025 and service to Naples, Italy (NAP) launching on May 6, 2025.
With United’s varied fare products (from basic economy to Polaris business class), it can continue to place pressure on budget carriers by offering basic economy fares at similar price levels while offering a wider range of premium fare products and a network that continues to grow, at least in terms of dots and lines. As budget carriers drop routes and frequencies, so can United, and the inverse is true as well. United feels prepared to win any battle against budget carriers like Spirit and Frontier, with CEO Scott Kirby effectively writing them off as unviable competition.
American Airlines is a different story. The Dallas-based carrier maintains a large hub at ORD and though it has shrunk, its connectivity provides apples-to-apples competition with United. Its loyalty program is better than United’s and its premium product, at least in terms of the seat and food, is competitive (at least when it works…).
But there’s more to the story. 2015 represented the bottom of the barrel for United. Jeff Smisek was in charge and cutting domestic routes in a strange (and failed) bid to grow through cuts. When Oscar Munoz took over and Kirby pivoted to United from American in a specially-created “President” position, the carrier began to rebuild its network from years of neglect.
As View From The Wing points out (looking at Cirium data), the percentage of local traffic reported by United tracks fairly closely with the percentage of seats at ORD that each airline operates (though in the last two years there has been a widening gap).
While United has nicer gates, more space, and utilizes larger aircraft from ORD, it is not inconceivable that AA could close the gap simply by adding capacity back, which would be an important test for Kirby’s “sticky customer” theory.
> Read More: United Airlines CEO Thinks Customers Are “Sticky”
CONCLUSION
United Airlines is pulling ahead of American Airlines in terms of local traffic at O’Hare, but I’m not convinced (yet) that it is purely due to United offering a superior overall product. Rather, I think it’s a function of schedule and network, with United adding more flights while AA has been much slower to grow from its ORD hub.
Should AA throw in the towel at ORD? Of course not…AA could start winning back market share by introducing exactly the same kind of international flights and widebody domestic service that UA now leads in…it’s not rocket science.
What AA needs at ORD (and PHL and LAX and JFK…) is a strategy that it sticks to.
ORD is the last remaining two legacy carrier hub airports and AA’s battle brings back memories of DL’s struggles at DFW leading to the closure of its hub there and reallocation of resources to NYC – where AA was the largest carrier at the time – and ATL.
AA has no choice but to fight it out in ORD. The question is how long they need to be. They have no other large presence in the Midwest where DL is the largest carrier thanks to the dual hub DTW and MSP strategy.
UA, as usual, has significant risks in dominating ORD. First, ORD is already the most expensive interior US connecting hub and it will only get more expensive. If AA shrinks further and UA gains, UA will pay a higher share of the cost of the massively expensive new terminal at ORD.
and second is that UA’s desire to fix its JFK and Florida problem via a B6 acquisition becomes much more problematic by eliminating a competitor in a major competitive market.
AA has a massive connecting hub at DFW – far larger than anything UA has. ORD is far better geographically located than IAH or DEN, the other two center-US hubs which UA is trying to grow.
and UA isn’t going to win against every ULCC and if they do, it is further evidence why further consolidation in the industry shouldn’t be allowed.
it is possible to win the battle and lose the war
“dual hub DTW and MSP strategy” – that’s an inheritance from Northwest. They, not some Delta mgmt team strategy, made those viable.
UNITED rising, and industry leading 1Q margin with the handicap of high cost and contested multi-airport hub cities. Means they’re winning on choice. Earning mine with proper wine in premium cabins – even $20 a bottle red in domestic first class not the plonk Delta serves, and an unmatched long haul international network.
Greg,
and EWR wasn’t built by UA.
What is your point?
airlines are the product of the mergers they have done.
none of which changes that DL is the largest airline in the Midwest.
and UA does have higher airport costs – and they will grow faster than other airlines as UA expands its hubs to carry more of the connecting traffic to develop a domestic system; for years, UA was too focused on adding flights to Mongolia and Greenland that they failed to notice they are the 6th largest airline to Florida. Oops. and the 4th
and UA’s higher airport costs don’t begin to offset its lower labor costs which is what drove its higher margins. Actual UA employees – the ones that deliver UA’s product – don’t care about UA’s margins given that their own personal paychecks subsidize UA’s growth.
none of which changes that UA’s incessant very public mindset to take out every competitor is not lost on regulators. There is no way that UA is going to fix the holes in its network at JFK and Florida w/o a merger. no regulator is going to allow the world’s biggest airline to grew even more when it is determined to take out whatever competition remains.
Point being DTW and MSP weren’t a ‘strategy’ of Delta’s implying a planned greenfield expansion by the Delta management team. The only choice they made was to keep them going, and exit CVG. DTW handles fewer passengers than it did pre merger.
And UA leading the industry in 1Q margin with the hurdles of both airport cost and secondary in-town airports competing for local origin traffic at every hub but DEN.
nowhere did I say that DL invented the dual hub Midwest strategy.
just as UA did not develop EWR as a hub.
Yet both carriers recognized the value of what they acquired which is why it is hard to understand why you want to argue the point.
UA simply gets more of its revenue from its hubs compared to both AA and DL. and UA’s revenue share in Chicago and Houston is less than what it gets in its coastal hubs including San Francisco and New York City.
Quit arguing about every single distinctive that UA has just because you think it makes them better because they posted a higher margin in the 1st quarter off the backs of their employees. The hub structure and carrier competition in every one of UA’s hubs didn’t change over the past 3 years; UA’s employees DID become less well paid relative to their competitors. THAT is what has changed.
Tim, you have spent your life in the comment sections replying to just about every topic when you have nothing left to say with “But Delta’s margins”
Well, now you can’t. Because United beat them without monopoly hubs, without an amazing credit card deal, and with full unionization…
Keep crowing about the deals the UA unions didn’t get. They have no leverage and those unions know that.
Just chill. Give United their time in the sun. They deserve it. They have done wonders and FINALLY have brought about the dream of what the merger was supposed to bring, crazy margins even in high-cost cities.
Doug Parker’s biggest mistake was firing Scott Kirby. Everyone knows it.
Delta runs a tight ship, but there’s little innovation left there. Ed Bastian is a corporate schill that needs to be shown the door.
give it up, Max.
UA does have monopoly hubs whether you understand the concept or not.
They get more revenue from their hubs than DL does. Or AA or WN.
UA’s network has always been about serving big cities. They just didn’t care about serving most of the rest of the US until they realized that their inability to get more credit card revenue is because US credit cards depend on, wait, wait, spending done in the US.
UA”s margins will fall dramatically when they have to pay industry comparable wages. Or else UA employees will have wasted money on unions while AA and WN were suckered into paying the higher wages that DL set for its union and non-union employees alike. Maybe DL ended up paying its people too much and is eroding its own margins – but as long as UA’s wage expenses per seat mile are still well below DL’s and until UA’s employees say that is ok, as long as you keep bragging about how well UA’s margins are, I’ll keep repeating how underpaid their employees are.
Take a cue from Matthew and just put the topic on the back shelf -including comparing UA’s margins to DL’s – until we get a few contracts signed and then see where it all ends up.
and as much disdain as you have for Bastian, Delta, under his leadership still leads in multiple metrics. You need only look at the DOT’s Air Travel Consumer Report to see how low UA scores in baggage handling and cancellations and how high DL scores in those same metrics to see that one quarter’s margin doesn’t change much.
“UA does have monopoly hubs whether you understand the concept or not.”
name one.
they all have competing airports or competing hubs in the airport.
Delta crows about their monopoly hubs with no competition that they co-opt local governments to operate in a monopolistic fashion with them.
United does not have that. but sure, tim. Name one airport United has without a sizable airport in the same metro or a major competitor at the airport?
DL has ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC with no competition and Delta explicitly says their profits come from their monopoly hubs. United just beat Delta on margin with none of those advantages.
You can keep arguing the same useless nonsense on every article but even DELTA says you’re wrong. They know where their profits come from and United just doesn’t have those kinds of hubs. They definitely want DEN to become that but it isn’t right now.
Moving on…
first, Max, monopolies (and you don’t even use the term correctly) is not about whether there are competitive airports in the same metro or not.
and second, you do realize that the US domestic airline industry was deregulated almost 50 years ago? If putting hubs in cities where there were no other airports mattered, don’t you think that UA should have thought about that a long time ago?
and third, AA and WN also have hubs in cities where there are no other airports so this boogey man that you want to create to show why UA succeeds and DL just has a crutch doesn’t cut it.
but let’s face it. YOU ARE COMPLETELY INCAPABLE of addressing the real reasons for why the airline industry operates.
Again.
Name one.
You can’t. All you can do is write a lot trying to ignore what I replied to. That delta has four monopoly hubs while United has none but still beat DL on margin.
Good for UA!
Tim
Stop being so offended by Delta investor presentations that SAY that DL profitability comes from their four interior core hubs.
Delta says it. Not me.
United just beat DL on margin with no monopoly hubs. You can’t even reply with one hub UA has like ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC
yet you keep writing.
Just say congrats to UA and move on. I don’t choose to fly UA much (they aren’t convenient for me but a great airline) but I can still say congrats for an amazing turnaround
Good for them. Learn to love your peers.
how about you provide a business dictionary definition of a monopoly.
and then tell us DL’s share of its own hubs – and it will be apparent that DL does not have a monopoly
but let’s face it that you don’t understand basic business principles and therefore you are incapable of understanding why the airline industry oeprates the way it does.
UA gets more revenue from its top 4 hubs than DL does. DL doesn’t have monopolies. UA has hubs in large markets and gets the highest share of revenue in those hubs, just as DL does in its hubs.
The difference -which you clearly are incapable of understanding – is that DL like AA and WN – get half of its revenue OUTSIDE of its hubs. UA is nowhere close to that amount.
THAT is why they are working overtime trying to push their way into the 150 domestic cities that they didn’t think were important enough while they were chasing routes to Mongolia and Greenland.
the only one that needs to move on is you who are incapable of admitting that UA will have to spend $1 billion more on labor expenses in order to compensate its employees comparable to AA, DL and WN.
UA’s margin will fall below DL’s IF they paid their employees those kinds of wages.
UA’s unions – the ones you think do so much – are not about to give up the productivity gains that UA wants in order to get DL’s labor rates.
UA’s financial success RIGHT NOW is because their employees are underpaid. The longer you continue to argue w/ patently false statements such as about monopoly hubs – and you don’t even use that term correctly – I’ll keep up the argument.
“how about you provide a business dictionary definition of a monopoly.”
So this is where we are…?
You claim United has monopoly hubs.
When confronted with the actual facts that EVERY UA hub has a hub competitor or a major nearby airport.
Now you want a business dictionary? You can’t actually be this tragic?
You aren’t worth a reply. This is stupid. We both know ATL/DTW/MSP/SLC are monopoly hubs. Delta nearly calls them that in 2021/2022 investor presentations to try to get investor confidence.
United has none of that but still beat UA on margin this quarter.
Move on… This honestly just starts looking so stupid for you.
A business definition for “monopoly” hubs when Delta literally says that’s their strategic advantage to investors?
*still beat DL* 😉
And Again.
NAME ONE, Tim.
ONE. There is no UA equivalent to ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC.
But UA still beat DL on margin. Meaning, structurally, DL is behind UA even without every monopoly hub advantage…
That should be impressive. and It is.
It’s remarkable watching Tim Dunn try to cope with UA’s rise to the industry leader. An analyst even referred to UA as the flag carrier of the US on last week’s earnings call.
Everyone knows what’s happening, Tim just wants to live in an alternative reality. It’s not 2015 anymore Tim, there’s a new sheriff in town at UA.
yes, a sheriff that doesn’t care about paying his people industry comparable levels
and a sheriff that is so sensitive to criticism that it sends its minions onto the internet to trash anyone that dares speak ill about UA.
It was the exact same practice that America West did and carried to US and AA – and now that the same group of deeply insecure people are running UA, it follows there.
If UA is as good as it thinks it is, then they don’t need people incessantly shouting from the rooftops how great UA is – and how everyone else has to fail in order for UA to succeed.
and regardless of what any analyst thinks, there is no single flag carrier for the US.
and it doesn’t change that UA flies more ASMs than anyone but still can’t generate more revenue or profits. even on the Pacific – using the fake DOT numbers according to Max, DL generates more profits on a smaller international network.
The big picture is that UA is more willing to take bigger swings at the plate while AA is satisfied with advancing the runner to second base on a bunt and perhaps even scoring on an error.
AA’s retreats at ORD cost them a bunch of my business, and they would have lost even more of it if not for the AA miles being more valuable than UA miles for my flights to/from/via ORD.
Even as I prefer the AA lounge food options over the UA lounge food options at ORD since I get flagship dining at ORD even when flying in economy class on the airlines but only get regular UA club food when flying in economy class on UA/Star Alliance, UA is the better airline of the two for me to fly to/from/via ORD.
Oh, okay. I suppose American is pulling ahead of United in Dallas and Phoenix?
despite the incessant chest-beating by UA’s fans, UA still generated less domestic revenue than either AA or DL in 2024.
As much as it would to have one, UA will never have a hub like ATL or DFW
UA has EWR, IAD, ORD, DEN and SFO. That UA mix usually works better for me than DFW and ATL.
“despite the incessant chest-beating by UA’s fans, UA still generated less domestic revenue than either AA or DL in 2024.”
Are your responses now getting this desperate that now you just have to say “delta is bigger than United domestically” to say anything?
ok. Delta is bigger than united domestically. so? That means nothing and if you know anything about United’s domestic plans, that probably won’t be the case for long. AA is bigger than Delta domestically… so?
it is just as material as the incessant chest thumping about how big UA’s international network.
and despite all of the ASMs that UA flies, its total revenue doesn’t beat DL’s.
DL didn’t invent the credit card loyalty program but it has perfected it – just like alot of other concepts.
and by the time UA gets a good CC deal, DL will be making a billion dollars more in profit fixing all of the new generation engines for other airlines given that it has US airline exclusivity.
as much as you think that DL is at risk of being overtaken, DL is ALWAYS two steps ahead of the competition.
“as much as you think that DL is at risk of being overtaken, DL is ALWAYS two steps ahead of the competition.”
You seem to think I care who wins. I really don’t. I know why DL is profitable. Lots of reasons for it.
But they also just got overtaken. We’ll see if it lasts, but Delta has a mediocre CEO, United does not.
but again. You’ll likely be offended at 2Q results whoever comes out on top. I won’t because I don’t have a dog in the race. You seem personally offended when delta loses. Find a new hobby.
You don’t get it.
UA employees are offended that not a single union has a current contract. The absolute worse in the US industry.
If you praise that kind of CEO, you highlight how anti-employee you really are.
“UA employees are offended that not a single union has a current contract. The absolute worse in the US industry.”
Are you actually this ignorant or just this dumb to hope you can say nonsense without comment?
United has lots of unions with current contracts. Just two horribly mismanaged unions that don’t have contracts, but it’s also one of the few benefits of unionization — unions that can’t get over themselves. But it’s a normal part of negotiations and Sara Nelson is an idiot that should be fired.
every single one of UA’s large non-pilot unions will have contracts that are amendable by the summer. 65k employees representing 6 workgroups and 3 unions is not just about Sara Nelson and the AFA who can’t get a contract for UA FAs, let alone the DL FAs she thinks she is going to win over – at personal cost and loss of salary to DL FAs.
none of which changes that, bad union leadership or not, UA’s costs are not what they would be if they matched AA, DL and WN’s pay scales. And UA loves it that way.
And UA’s margins will not be the same.
thank you, again, Max, for confirming that you are a UA management employee – no wonder you use a fake name.
“thank you, again, Max, for confirming that you are a UA management employee – no wonder you use a fake name.”
lol. You’ve been calling me aa management for so long.
Now I’m United?
Pick a lane. This is such a lame accusation from a fired delta employee. You didn’t know how to respond to another person the other day and this was your lame reply too. Give it up and admit when you’re wrong. Go to bed, loser.
And again. Thank you for confirming you’re wrong, that there are amendable contracts coming up at UA (are we going to start talking about delta employees that don’t have a new pay raise?), but they aren’t amendable. You can’t possibly be this outspoken but this ignorant about union contracts.
Are you?
doesn’t really matter who you work for – you are management and you are hellbent on trashing anyone that presents the truth that you don’t want to hear.
normal people that comment on the internet don’t use Diio. It is a tool for industry professionals
And you shoot down publicly available data that you don’t like.
and misuse terms you don’t understand.
btw, you do realize that AS just pulled out of three directly competitive markets. UA’s market share is growing and yet UA thinks it should be allowed to acquire B6.
UA can follow DL’s product strategies but its management is incapable of looking far enough down the road to realize it will have to live with decisions previously made – including Kirby’s own decision at US to swap slots with DL at LGA and DCA and the evil Smisek’s decision to leave JFK.
but Kirby has been CEO of UA for the better part of a decade and has been much more focused on announcing service to exotic cities around the world – but forgot that Florida is one of the largest markets in the world if it were its own country – and UA is #6 in the FL market.
I can see the big picture while you nitpick over a few percent here and there. You can’t see the forest for the trees.
UA might well gain even more share at ORD – but it will be left holding a big bill that more than offsets the revenue that UA will carry from ORD.
AA will have the last laugh at ORD.
“As much as it would to have one, UA will never have a hub like ATL or DFW”
Which as a primarily domestic CUSTOMER based in chicago, is exactly what I want. I like that I can get to LGA for a single day business trip in Manhattan for less than half of what it costs from ATL
you do realize that DL’s revenue share on ORD-LGA is right at 25%, the same as AA and UA’s?
You realize there are actual stats for this, right?
Do you think people just are too dumb to look?
ORD-LGA
UA: 42%
AA: 24%
DL: 21%
Try a little harder if you want to keep lying with stats you don’t have.
and before you try to act cute by talking about revenue
United’s revenue on the route was double delta.
You need to go back to a place where you can share your fake BS. You’ll get called out with facts here.
that is NOT the local LGA-ORD revenue share, Max.
and since you are convinced you have all of the answers, how about you tell us the revenue share for every market that DL operates from ORD? there aren’t that many so it shouldn’t take you much time.
and then you can do the same exercise for UA from one of DL’s “monopoly” hubs
If you want a diio membership, tim
go buy it
I’m not your minion.
If you don’t want to buy it, then don’t make up fake facts without the info. It’s very easy to refute.
I have to admit though, this rebuttal attempt is lame even for you.
Do better.
and it is the actual revenue share from Diio.
Where’s your fake info from, tim?
Don’t be mad when you get called out for knowing very little. most of us know it about you.
But you don’t get to spout fake info without backup.
You’re just wrong. Tell us. Where is your info from? Care to just admit you’re wrong?
And if you are so certain you are right, then tell us the revenue shares that EVERY market that DL flies from a UA hub and UA flies from a DL hub.
You won’t because it proves your theories wrong.
and thank you for confirming that you are a management type. Diio is not cheap and it is used by management. YOU are in airline management.
and yet you are clueless about basic business principles – such as what monopolies are and are not.
thank you for outing yourself.
:And if you are so certain you are right, then tell us the revenue shares that EVERY market that DL flies from a UA hub and UA flies from a DL hub.”
lol. go by your own membership, loser
you’re drunk and only prove what I’ve always said about you.
Go get your own membership if you want to go look at share between every DL and UA hub lol.
You’re such a loser.
Go back to your marg.
But again, Tim.
I said where my actual data is from.
Where is your fake data from?
I heard you ask for half of Diio data that you don’t have
Where’s your fake 25% info from? Did you make it up?
you use UA’s data subscriptions to argue w/ people on the internet about how great UA is and how bad DL is.
all under a fake made-up name
Priceless. Just priceless.
lol.
I use data to reply to your BS.
DEFINITELY NOT paid for by UA. But what an interesting way to admit you have no data and I do.
How much else of what you say is absolute BS based on nothing?
To reply to a fellow user that doesn’t use his real name, Tim Dunn.
Don’t pretend Tim Dunn is your real name. You know we’ve already been over this and you drunkenly already admitted it isn’t.
Don’t pretend otherwise.
as usual, you resort to personal attacks when I prove that you are the fraud…. you are the one that decided to tell us all that you have access to a Diio subscription – which explains perfectly why you shill for UA.
and you are just one of many UA execs.
and in case you aren’t aware, DOT domestic O&D data is available on their website. and it is the data that directly feeds Diio and other systems.
and I have downloaded the massive DOT files and processed them.
every day people don’t have Diio subscriptions. but you do and you outed yourself in order to win an argument – and you lost the war.
You are a UA management shill – just like dozens of others on the internet.
I have had a lovely day exposing you for who you are, Max.
Personal attacks?
Is tim Dunn now your real name despite years of saying it isn’t and also using other fake names?
Tim Dunn’s trolling is insufferable. Good god.
I would not deem it trolling, but his posting definitely seems to generate some excitement on boardingarea.com blogs. He is very committed to cheerleading for Delta, and that cheerleading often enough includes his considering some facts about Delta’s competition. I am always skeptical of cheerleading by company loyalists but contributions from company loyalists aren’t all bad.
Who in their right mind would ever choose to fly out of ATL or DFW (much less MSP or Detroit)? Only if you lived there and had to.
I used to cringe when I had to go through those airports and deal with Delta. Delays, crappy secondary flights and the most user unfriendly, greedy airports in the 1st world.
ATL I agree with.
DFW isn’t that bad. At least it isn’t a trailer park mismatch like ATL 😉
I think MaxPower just owned Tim. The latter has staked his life on Delta. If Tim really wanted to see a CEO he would visit Emirates.
It’s not owning. It’s just informing others of who Tim is and who he isn’t. He posts so dogmatically that it’s important to use real data to refute his idiocy. It shouldn’t have to be this harsh but when someone so dogmatically posts incorrect data as fact, you just have to be factual in reply.
Airliners.net, Cranky, and OMAAT have realized this. I have no idea why a great blog like this one welcomed him. Tim has gone off on this site before as “beneath him” before he was banned elsewhere.
Tim was fired by Delta, the company he cheerleads.And he’s banned across most of the aviation sphere. That should tell everyone everything. But the average person doesn’t know that and it’s easy to refute him.
He’s easy to beat on facts. He doesn’t use them. He has a lot of opinions, but few based on reality or actual data beyond the overall fact that, historically, delta has been very profitable, something delta says is due to their domestic monopoly hubs.
you mean you use UA’s data subscriptions that you as a UA management employee have access to in order to argue w/ people on the internet.
Under a fake name.
all the while arguing that publicly available like DOT earnings by geographic region is fake and made up.
You do live in an alternate reality, max
so glad that you followed me over to LALF so we could get to who YOU really are.
“you mean you use UA’s data subscriptions that you as a UA management employee have access to in order to argue w/ people on the internet”
I’ll admit. You make me laugh. You’re proven wrong. Now I’m a UA employee after being an AA employee, per you, for years.
DOT earnings are real, but you don’t understand revenue accounting. You just don’t know anything about revenue accounting or how it’s reported.
You’re an ignorant person pretending to know something who knows nothing.
you then resort to insults that I’m a UA employee because you have no other reply. lol
It’s honestly amusing but just so stupid and tragic.
Do you really find it better to keep digging your own hole vs admitting when you’re wrong? This is just tragic.
you are in full CYA mode.
regular people that debate on the internet don’t have Diio subscriptions.
Tell us who you are and why you have one.
The DOT does publish profitability by global region and you have repeatedly said it is fake.
YOU don’t understand basic math or how the DOT operates.
All they do is collect the data from US airlines and publish it. UA submits its own revenue and cost data and the DOT just calculates the public profit.
The pie is not any larger no matter how the revenue is allocated to any region.
I have asked you REPEATEDLY to tell us how the DOT’s profitability by global region should look if you don’t like the numbers – and you consistently freeze up.
Because you know that ONE is STILL ONE, no matter how it is divided.
UA simply runs its international operation at far lower levels of profitability and has for years.
DL made 30% more profit in 2024 on a smaller international operation than UA.
You can’t stand to admit that kind of data – or logic is correct.
and yet someone gave you access to Diio. you sure didn’t buy it just to argue w/ people on the internet.
lol
You’re too much
Get a life loser
You get owned for making absolute BS up about markets like lga-ord because you think you won’t get called out on it.
It was literally made up to be an ass to another poster. Now you’re mad that someone with data said you made it up, which you absolutely did.
And your counter is “how dare someone have data to prove me wrong”
And I was an AA employee?
Now I’m a United executive ? lol
I’m neither. But don’t make stuff up, tim. You got called on it and you always will when you lie as you do.
Grow up
I’m not an AA or UA employee
You need mental help
I understand dot data very well
And as I’ve said. It says which airline is the most profitable overall.
There’s zero requirement to report revenue the same way. I don’t need to fix dot reporting requirements to tell you what it is and isn’t. You’re the one that claims to use it as fact despite being told what it represents.
Your own lack of knowledge is not my issue. My issue is you lying to others about something you know nothing about.
The only thing dot geographic data says is how profitable a system is. That’s just it. Revenue accounting is a real thing, pal.
Learn about revenue accounting, numbskull 😉
Otherwise, stop posting about something you know nothing about
you’re a fraud and a UA management shill.
You outed yourself.
and so you, as usual, call me names when it is you that wasn’t smart enough to know what you were doing.
UA made less money on its entire system – including in the 3rd quarter when DL melted down w/ CrowdStrike – and DL’s profit margin on its international system is higher than UA’s – which is why UA made less money in 2024 on their entire international route system than DL even though DL flew about 30% less international ASMs.
but I am supposed to be the one that isn’t smart – while you not only outed yourself but can’t understand that ONE is ONE no matter how it is subdivided?
you had a horrible day chasing me around the internet. and I OWNED you.
Enjoy your night.
This is a stupid conversation and back and forth.
When you have data to back up what YOU said, come back to me. Otherwise, your ignorant and weird management claims are just amusing and a very funny way to make me laugh. Thanks.
If you want to lie with stats, don’t be mad when you get called out for literally knowing NOTHING and saying stuff as “fact” this is a flat out lie. lol
But sure. Call me AA management. Call me UA management because you just make up nonsense.
Night night loser
Does anyone remember St Louis?
When AA purchased TWA, St Louis was to be an alternate to ORD for AA.
Eventually, AA folded at STL and WN filled in the void.
Looks like AA got distracted.
AA closed STL hub after 9/11 tragedy.
I don’t think a lot of people realize what a truly incredible internet troll Tim Dunn is. I’m not saying that as a pejorative. I mean legitimately, he is an unbelievably talented guy that is able to drive people into near insanity and into wasting hours of their time trying to argue with someone who is just sitting behind his keyboard laughing at them all.
Tim isn’t really a Delta fanboy. He means none of it. For all we know he’s an AA frequent flyer. But he’s found his corner of internet fame-dom in the creation of this character he plays, and he does it brilliantly. How can you guys not see this? It’s satire. And frankly so subtle and well done that it’s some of the best I’ve ever seen.
So to Tim: Bravo. Consider me a fan, and I will count it an honor if you reply to this post in character. Let me have it, lol.
To everyone else, for gods sake calm down and take a deep breath, and just enjoy the artistry.
I do get a laugh out of watching people run from website to website trying to argue w/ me.
esp. when they out themselves and then try to call me names.
and I have always watched the airline industry as a business.
Deregulation was very much in my lifetime. I have way more knowledge and history than a whole lot of people here will ever have – and I don’t need to look up answers on someone else’s Diio account.
It is a shame there aren’t more people with the emotional intelligence you have.
If there were, I would have nothing to do.
just back up your fake facts, tim. 😉
it’s not tough
you can’t stand to admit you have been played… just as you are all the time.
other people – a few of them – can figure out that this is all a mental exercise for me.
Frauds are flushed out w/ little effort.
Do you really think it was worth blowing your cover to prove me wrong by 17% (the difference between the 25% share I said that UA in ORD-LGA and the 42% actual?)
You couldn’t help yourself in running to your Diio subscription to prove me wrong – and you proved that you are a mgmt shill in the process – which is exactly what I was certain to be the case anyway.
normal people don’t have Diio subscriptions.
normal people do read DOT data and know that ONE is STILL ONE no matter how many pieces you slice it into.
admit you were whipped and walk away, Max.
I’ve had fun today. So much better than chess.
Lmao
You really are so stupid, tim
Believe what you want.
You’re an idiot
Thanks for making me laugh going to bed
You think you’ve exposed a united exec tonight
You really are an idiot
But thanks for the laugh. And the lame attempt to use my data to seem smarter. It only shows how little you knew when you tried to be a jerk to be another poster on lga-ord.
Are you really this lame? Lol
How about you NOT make random data up?
You got called on it because, just like everything else,
You simply lie because you actually know nothing as you were exposed today.
Try to not lie
Maybe you’ll have Better luck
You got owned today, this is absolutely tragic, even for you
Again
As much nonsense as you put out there about “my blown cover “ lol
Sorry. This is just so stupid and funny but you’re also an idiot that lives in his
Still
Explain to us how your ord-lga example was ANYTHING but made up
We’re all waiting
BACK UP your fake stats
With literally anything. Where did you random ass lga-ord stats come from? Do you make Every other bit like that?
I’m not surprised but tell us where these stats came from?
Your reply seems to be that maxpower@united.com is a c suite email
Which is beyond stupid. But funny and amusing
But also part of your normal paranoia
What was really nice about this website is there was no Tim Dunn. But now that he’s been banned from OMAAT he shows up everywhere.
Agreed. There’s not constructive dialogue in his comments.
Agreed x2. How does someone turn a post about UA vs AA at ORD into a post that is all about DL? I think Tim would be welcomed if his comments were more neutral and far less about DL, especially when they aren’t the topic to begin with. It just can’t always be about them and they can’t possibly always be perfect or right.
One overlooked thing about the AA collapse at ORD is that they laid off their entire Chicago-based corporate sales staff. No more local people visiting local corporate sales offices meant UA could pick those companies up easily. It was a strategic mistake that will be hard to reverse.
let’s be clear that AA dismantled its sales force around the country. DL took advantage of that to further solidify its lead at LGA and JFK and then spread it to LAX. During covid, DL focused on BOS where it has left AA and B6 in the rearview mirror and is now doing the same in AUS.
UA couldn’t help but see why DL continued to benefit from AA’s failures and figured that they should get a larger piece of the Chicago market.
but ORD is and always has been a large connecting hub just like ATL, Dallas and Denver – going all the way back to the CAB days of controlling US air transportation.
ORD is the LAST hub that any airline should fight to win. It is already much more costly than any other hub per passenger and the expense will only go higher.
AA may or may not be able to maintain a decent share of the local Chicago market without bearing a large share of the ORD rebuilding expenses.
UA can fight to win DEN and it will make economic sense. Growing IAD and IAH both could strengthen UA”s network position at competitive costs.
ORD will never be an economically viable competitor to ATL, DFW, DTW and MSP.
Winning ORD will be at best a pyrrhic victory for UA.
Tim Dunn is basically an adult incel. With extra tiny hands.
cairns,
let’s be clear that replies to Matthew’s articles esp. about the big 3 have shot up since I appeared – not because I am here but because there are a small army of people that follow me around the internet trying to prove me wrong.
I’ve been following the business of the airline industry for half a century and “playing” on aviation social media for half that time.
as Kab can see above, I figured out a long time ago that airlines create enormous loyalty esp. among their employees; there is no other industry where people blindly follow their leaders like airline employees do.
and there is a very real history in the US airline industry of some mgmt teams that can’t stand to hear or read criticism.
There are people that participate in aviation social media whose identity to their airline is stronger than their loyalty to their mother. I know the big picture of the US airline industry. And I really don’t care about the market level specifics of ORD-LGA; but raising the point served to flush out a management lackey that hides behind a fake user name even while saying that about me.
If what I say isn’t fact, then it should be able to prove it wrong based on facts – not just on details but across the macro-level. Diio doesn’t provide data on labor cost efficiency or competitive labor rates. Most of these discussions go way over some people’s heads but those that do grasp the details will do everything they can to obfuscate the truth they don’t want spoken.
J have no loyalty to anything but the truth. DL figured out 20 years ago what it needed to do to turn itself around and the rest of the industry has been playing catch up since. UA has made the best run but they simply are nowhere in DL’s league in terms of sustained profitability on a comparable cost or service metric basis.
Of course, UA has shown dramatic improvements – largely by copying strategies that DL implemented over the past 20 years. DL’s strategies aren’t patented and DL can and will have to come up w/ more to keep its lead. and they very well may fail to maintain their lead. The Roman Empire failed. The British Empire is a fraction of its former self.
as long as some people are determined to argue with the facts that I present, whatever site I show up at will benefit.
Huge eye roll
You do think quite highly of yourself and apparently I work for United now lol
Happy Easter, tim
first, I don’t really care who you work for.
You are an industry network related professional. Normal people – not even regular airline employees – have access to – let alone know how to use Diio.
You were so desperate to prove me wrong that you proved you are a management type – which is why you poop on any suggestion that UA’s employees are underpaid.
and Happy Easter to you.
It will make for a happy day after Easter and the day after that and the day after that if you would curb your incessant need to call me names and try to prove me wrong just because you don’t like what I have to say.
If your self-worth is so heavily wrapped up in what anyone has to say that you need to trash them to try to keep them silent, the problem is not me but you.
If it is just an opinion, who cares if it is not your own.
If it is fact that you don’t agree with, state your facts and then let the chips fall where they may.
When you spend as much time as you do arguing about how all of the facts that I present are wrong and yet you can’t make the bottom line result work, it is pretty sure that your random collection of facts doesn’t tell the story.
I do get a kick out of watching you get as wrapped around an axle as you do. Nobody on the internet tries as hard to prove me wrong – and in the process only validates that what I said all along is true.
Internet social media is infested w/ a bunch of airline management people that can’t stand for anyone to speak the truth they don’t want to hear or read.
If UA or any other airline is as good or bad as you think they are, whatever is said on airline social media won’t make a flying frog’s worth of difference. everyone will know.
The facts tim
Bring them
Don’t lie or you’ll get called out on it. Like you were in this thread.
This isn’t tough.
But you did give me a great laugh about my perceived career path
Thanks
It made me laugh
Don’t lie to be an ass about what you don’t know.
You make it too easy to call you out on your BS
If you’re gonna lie
Like you always do
Don’t make it so easy to prove you wrong
There are many that know how your BS Is thrown around
Nobody is following you around the internet Timmy. The fact that you’d even think that tells us what a moron you are. Most of us want you to leave. You’re just an annoying little louse without facts and a lot of BS.
it’s pretty obvious that there are people that have followed me from one site to another and chosen to argue w/ me here where they previously did it elsewhere.
You would have to have your hand completely in the sand to not see it.
I’ve been on this site far longer than you, tim
You’re the one that said this site was beneath you on other sites. I’ve always been here
Getting banned by other sites doesn’t make you a savior here
It makes you new trying to ignore what you’ve said about this site
Find a new way to troll, tim
But again. You got called out on your lga-ord lies. And went off on some weird rage about United management
Honestly funny then woke up Sunday morning continuing your crazy hope.
What else do you lie about ? What data do you use for anything you say?
I’ve known this for some time. That you like to just lie to make delta look better. And just say anything without substance.
The simplest data check you said was debunked… easily. And your response was not that it was wrong but that it was a UA C suite employee coming at you lol. You didn’t admit your complete BS in data at another poster busy instead came at me as someone who had data.
Cite your sources. You know so little about the industry, you make it obvious why delta fired you.
you aren’t interested in a Happy Easter or Merry Christmas or anything else – so quit stating what you clearly have no intention of doing.
yes, multiple people participate on multiple sites.
You and you alone have made it your life’s work to take out anyone that dares say something that you don’t agree with.
You are emotionally incapable of allowing someone to say something fact or opinion – without turning it into a personal assault on them.
why is it so hard for you to state what you believe and then walk away?
You incessantly hurl insults and yet it is YOU that repeatedly turn every conversation w/ a fact that you don’t like into a personal attack.
The problem is YOU, Max.
and the sooner you admit that, the sooner you will find true satisfaction in life.
I couldn’t honestly care less whether DL or UA is #1 or #111. I care about being able to say what I believe and not be incessantly stalked by someone that can’t stand to allow anyone else to say their piece.
You are a management shill and THAT is what motivates you to drop into full-scale attack mode. Your devotion to your employer rules your life and your behavior.
Don’t wish me a Happy Easter and then act like Judas.
Just admit when you lie and make up fake data then apologize and walk away.
Don’t double down on your own lies and hurl insults to defend yourself when you’re called out on them.
Hope you had a great Easter.
you truly aren’t capable of admitting that you were set up in an argument about market share to force you to show your hand about who you are – a management tool using professional tools.
It should be obvious that there are no markets where 3 carriers have identical shares. A basic count of seats on ORD-LGA and any other route should make it clear that U is doing everything it can to push AA out of the Chicago market. If DL has half the share and half the revenue, then DL and UA get just about the same amount of revenue per passenger. DL is not interested in a share battle when UA clearly has no yield advantage.
and you continue to clearly refuse to admit that there are clearly markets like ATL-ORD, IAH-DTW and ATL-EWR which are hub competitive routes where DL is clearly the largest.
You are part of the legions of AA and UA lackeys that infest aviation social media because, just like at HP, AA and UA can’t stand if anything negative is said about them.
I use publicly available data – and can do basic math – which is what any non-industry contributor to social media does.
You use professional tools to argue details that no one except management cares about. and even then you cherrypick whatever results you need to prove your point -but can’t answer the big picture – which your cherrypicked data doesn’t support.
UA might well win the battle against AA at ORD but doing so will not only leave UA stuck w/ a far bigger bill for the cost of operating at ORD than for any other airport and UA will never ben able to fix its structural holes in its network such as at JFK and to Florida without a merger or acquisition which the DOJ is not about to let happen when UA continues to bulldoze competitors out of the market.
and, AS is reportedly leaving 3 more direct UA competitive markets, proving that UA can and does dominate its markets – as close to a monopoly as you know how to use the term – even as Scott Kirby cries about the markets that UA can’t serve – JFK – and touts Mongolia and Malaga service to the exclusion of Florida.
learn to accept that other people can see the big picture and who really are – and what you have to do to prove other people wrong even as you argue against publicly available data including that which shows that UA earns substantially less per seat mile on its larger international network than DL.
“you truly aren’t capable of admitting that you were set up in an argument about market share to force you to show your hand about who you are – a management tool using professional tools.”
You’re such a master at sneaky set ups. 😉
How do you even come up with this sort of stupid comment? lol.
“and you continue to clearly refuse to admit that there are clearly markets like ATL-ORD, IAH-DTW and ATL-EWR which are hub competitive routes where DL is clearly the largest.”
Not you trying to change the topic to something no one has even talked about lol. Of course Delta is the largest carrier on some routes. Who said they aren’t? I’m simply noting that you stated as fact that UA, AA, and DL are all 25% revenue share on ORD-LGA in an attempt to be rude to another poster.
You’re wrong just like you are about much of what you say and write. Because you just make things up.
Happy Monday. The things that go through your mind never cease to entertain.
No, i stopped going to other blogs to avoid you.
wow, it is impossible to read the comments these days…if you prefer to tune out Tim Dunn and MaxPower, maybe they should get a podcast?