Leadoff questions: if the treatment of Dr. David Dao was so immoral, why didn’t any of his fellow passengers try to stop it or also leave the flight in protest?
In discussing this issue with my wife, a psychology student, she referenced a number of classic test cases that led to a similar result. Maybe I can convince her to write an article on this area beyond my expertise, but I’ll at least put the topic out for discussion.
We human beings can be horrid creatures. Indeed, my leadoff question can be applied to far more horrific atrocities of human history, but let’s stick to this particular man on this particular flight.
Video details the man being dragged off the plane, bloodied and whimpering. As he darts back on the plane moments later, his look of desperation is palpable and confirmed by his cries to “kill me”.
Examine the video as he is dragged off. Passengers are shocked, but sit passively watching. Many film the incident, making the incident akin to spectator sport. The most passengers can muster is gasps of shock or small statements of lament.
Was it simply a respect or fear of law enforcement? Was it out of fright? Or was it out of selfish indifference?
Why didn’t anyone give up their seat after Dr. Dao repeatedly refused to give up his? Forget the fact that he had started his day in Los Angeles or had patients The following morning. Did no one have compassion for a clearly troubled man? Or did passengers think, “Well your wife got off, so why can’t you?”
How Would I Have Responded?
I think about how I would have acted had I been on the plane. In almost all cases, I would have been the first volunteer to relinquish my seat. I can work remotely and my time is not wroth $800/day…yet.
But assuming that I had remained on the plane I hate to admit I probably also would have remained silent. I certainly would have been recording the interaction for this blog. And if I am honest with myself, I likely would have held my tongue for fear of endangering my lifetime flight benefits as a United MillionMiler. That’s selfish.
CONCLUSION
While I still internally debate the legality of Dr. Dao’s removal, I do not debate the immorality of his removal. No one should be dragged and bloodied over an airline seat dispute. I do question why no one stepped up to help him, but if honest, have to admit I probably would not have helped him or stood by him either.
How about you?
More coverage:
Doctor Dragged Off Oversold United Flight
United CEO Addresses Bloodied Passenger Incident
I’ll Defend Oscar’s Note to United Employees on Flight 3411
Royal Jordanian Trolls United Airlines
Is Oscar Munoz in Danger of Losing His Job?
Details Emerge on Identity of Doctor Dragged Off United Flight
What United CEO Left Out of Apology
Emirates Shames United With Powerful Ad
Must See: United CEO on Good Morning America
One New Video, Two Competing Narratives – Passenger Interaction with Police Prior to Ejection from United Flight
My heuristic would be: to what end?
I see no other end once the police become involved than multiple people winding up bloody, arrested, or worse.
Besides, plenty of people did do something – they recorded it and pleaded with the “officials’ on board. As someone else pointed out on a previous blog post, the fact that they were upset and not clapping or rejoicing was an early indication that the removal was entirely unwarranted.
He was upright, running, breathing, talking (not making any sense, but still talking), not in any apparent danger of exsanguination, so there was no emergency that required the intervention of an untrained bystander to save his life.
Combine that with the fact that he was involved in an altercation with law enforcement, I think the smart thing to do was to stay out of it, other than video what was going on.
People had no way to know if he would try to hurt someone. Honestly, I wouldn’t have wanted his blood all over me, since he didn’t need my help to save his life. If he were unconscious on the ground, different story, and I would have jumped in to try and help.
Immorality of his removal ? Exactly what do you suggest they do to remove a passenger that doesn’t want to be removed ?
Matthew, when you are older and have a child prepare for this. You will be at the grocery store and they will want some candy. When you say no, they will plop down near the register (where the candy is well-placed) and throw a tantrum. Are you going to 1)buy them the candy to avoid embarrassment, 2)stand there and wait to see if they change their mind or 3)grab them by the arm and forcibly remove them to the car ? Be careful of the precedent you set.
@Greg – I call BS. You’d have sat there like everyone else (the guy was basically unconscious during the dragging).
The immorality is not in the removal but the way in which he was removed. That be has to be bloodied–even if “he was asking for it”. Can’t we be better than that?
Again, how do you remove someone from an airplane seat that doesn’t want to be removed ? They didn’t strike him, did they? Or tase him? Seems they grabbed his hands and pulled. Dr. stopped using his full force and was pulled across the aisle and into the seat.
Where was the pilot before all this happened? Couldn’t he/she have said the flight wouldn’t be going anywhere or would be cancelled if there weren’t enough volunteers.
That’s a silly comparison. My child always wants candy @ the checkout & I deal with it; buy it if he was super good, don’t buy it normally. But, that’s irrelevant.
The issue is not childish behavior of a passenger
The issue is about US and Airlines. Police should be used to come in and protect us from terrorists or any unsafe action by any person on an airplane.
Police should NOT be used over a seat dispute.
Are we Nazi Germany? Should we call the Stasi from East Germany every time some kid does not want candy?
Is that who we are?
This has to change.
it’s really typical behavior of so-called “Christians” – pretend to be concerned, but never actually doing anything about it
But what would you have done?
In most situations where something happens on a plane, only a few people close to the scene are often aware of it until it’s done. For those who were alert early on and watched it go down, the positioning of the additional two (?) police officers was a successful tactic for discouraging anyone else from getting involved. And there’s that deference to authority effect that is in my experience intensified on an airplane. That’s a good thing in a steel tube.
Anyone who says they know what they would do is wrong. What I hope I would have done at a minimum is speak softly in the doctor’s direction along the lines of “take it easy, be cool, sir.” Game theory notwithstanding, I’m somewhat confident I would have volunteered to give up my seat before things escalated in the first place, unless a job or a family emergency was awaiting me.
One angle that interests me about the many photos/videos that result from people’s phones in these cases, is that you never seem to hear about aircraft crews cracking down on people using their cameras, which does happen sometimes in the most innocent situations where a passenger is shooting video in the cabin.
What could I do if I were there? Try to stop a law enforcement guy? Argue with the FA? Anyone that tried to do anything would only have everything to lose. As I mentioned in many posts since power was given to airline personnel to make your life miserable at their discretion I changed the way I behave when flying. From the moment I step on an airport to the moment I leave the other one I am silent and watch my moves. I only say something if I am asked something. I try not to engage in any conversation with seat mates (unless they start and I feel like chatting with the person). Thus, in the case of what happened on the United flight I know I would be shocked but quiet. I would not say a word and probably not even film it to preserve myself. Yes, it may be selfish but I would avoid putting myself in trouble. I used to love traveling by air and I now hate it. It feels like I am stepping on eggs because anything you say or anyway you act may be interpreted as a threat by people like the ones that called law enforcement to “re-accomodate” this passenger.
Maybe they ought not have that power to make our lives miserable.
As long as we are acting right,the Flight and cabin crew should leave us the heck alone. And not have the right to use cops like Storm Troopers. Its like dealing with honeybees. Leave them alone, they’ll not sting you. Simple as that
The same reason people don’t help bank robbers when the police are putting them in the back of a police car. This man had NO respect for authority. If he had coupled he would be in this stimulation. Even now he still has “it’s all about me” syndrome with ambulance chasing lawyers.
I agree completely. The passengers was being a jerk. A four year old would not throw such a tantrum. It’s okay to complain verbally about the injustice. But going limp? Screaming like a child? Come on.
I think many miss my point, perhaps because I wasn’t clear. We can all agree it would be stupid to try to interfere with the police. But I would have been impressed if another passenger or several passengers had voluntarily left the flight after the incident.
*After* the incident? How would that have “helped the bloody passenger”?
I highly doubt the fact that when the officers entered the plane to do a job that the airline requested they were on a mission to “bloody” the passenger. Are you honestly inferring they huddled up in the jetway and said ok boys today’s the day, we finally get to knock out some teeth and cost an airline $600m in the next few days?
You would have sat there in silence just like everyone else, maybe even worse you were silent because you were worried about your precious status. Give me a break.
The same question could be applied to the airline employees that remained silent during the altercation and did not recognize the signs and symptoms of a person in mental/emotional distress.
Agree. Isn’t the captain still in charge? Or are they not paid enough to make decisions.
hi matthew, while it’s impossible to predict one’s reaction ,unless you’re constantly trained to react due to certain profession (medical/emt; firefighters, military) , most of us are don’t know how we will react but also are fearful due to our lifestyles.
We live paycheck to paycheck in the western world, so any threat to ones reputation, as in jail by police could cause you to lose job. Just like how many people work in jobs or companies that they truly hate but have no “balls” to stand up. We are so not financial independent and that’s part of the problem,
They did report that high school teacher with students got of… curious if it was due to training to avoid kids seeing violence or fear of kids parents or truly walking out due to what was seen
Although I find it all appalling, one option that I have not heard raised is why his wife did not offer to take another flight if seeing his patients was that critical. As a surgeon, I probably would have asked my husband to volunteer to take another flight if I had patients or surgery the next day. No difference than if my car broke down and I could not get to work. I would ask my husband to come take care of the car so I can get to work.
Anyway, your girlfriend should also be aware of something called the “bystander effect,” where those around are not helping during events even more horrific.
I thought his wife was one of those that was also chosen to be bumped. She was the 3rd person to leave the plane. I presume that’s why there was an empty seat next to him in the video of him being dragged.
I thought the computer randomly selected 4 people. I would not be so random if it’s from the same family, unless they randomly selected 2 couples.
Anyway, I saw a video of her just following after him as he was being pulled off.
Yea, Im curious about how their random generator work too. How much of it is decided by the computer, and what is left to the liberty of the gate agent? From what news reports are saying, the other two passengers bumped are also a couple. Probably not a coincidence. https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2017/04/12/random-computer-search-really-blame-uniteds-removal-debacle/100351720/
According to this article and from what I gather, the computer does not really pick randomly. The system basically picks the least valuable passengers to the airline to be bumped. So I imagine every passenger is ranked based on some set of criteria, and depending on how passengers they need to bump for an overbooked flight they will just go down that list.
Stupid title and a stupid article overall. You start with “Why Didn’t Anyone Help the Bloody Passenger” and go on to say you wouldn’t have done anything either – though you would have accepted the $800 voucher. Our freaking hero.
Did you really think someone was going to say “I would have jumped on the police and stopped them”? There was nothing to be done other than let it play out and now the court system will handle it. What is the point of this article other than to say you would have done nothing just like everyone else on that flight? I guess you just needed to post something since all of the other travel bloggers already posted something. Sad.
Yes TM is right, I think the “bystander effect” is most relevant here.
I don’t know if you were trying to get at the electroshock studies, but that is a different situation. That would be if all the bystanders were also dragging him and participating actively. So I don’t think those studies are relevant.
My feeling is that most people did not intervene, because of the violent removal & physical injuries sustained– again totally shocking even to watch on video, as most of us never thought that could happen to a nonviolent passenger, and I’m sure it was worse watching it in person. Also security officers in uniform were involved, so of course no one wants attention put on themselves w the folks who just did this. Also, I don’t think it would’ve been clear to me, were they also trying to arrest him in the process? So I wouldn’t want to interfere with that.
So people watched and were internally horrified and disgusted. That came out later, after everyone safely got to their destinations and in the privacy of their own homes, posted the videos and posted their discussed on social media.
I’m going to guess that some of them were fearful and will say that they were traumatized. It would not surprise me one bit if passengers who witnessed this are going to sue United as well, for being forced to witness this man’s physical torture. You also have a band of high school students, whose parents were not on the flight. I am sure those parents are pissed off as well, and not surprised if some of them are considering suing United.
To be fair, I’m not sure that security officer imagined at all it would’ve been this bad. Maybe he estimated that the guy was thin and light, and that he could just pull them out of his seat. He probably didn’t realize how old he was either. Now that we know he is almost 70yrs old and elderly, anyone would have taken more care in removing him. If United really wanted to go through the legal route, I think the right way to go would have been to ask the Chicago police to come and arrest the gentleman. I bet the Chicago police would push back a bit and ask them to find an alternative solution, before they went in and used force. Also in a non-urgent situation where he is not violently threatening, and with the police realizing how badly a forced removal could go, I would think that the procedure would be to get everybody around him or even all the passengers off the flight before they actually physically removed him if he was resisting that badly.
Also agree that he was not in need of CPR, but I would have been very concerned about him first for losing consciousness as he was dragged down the aisle, and later because he was so confused afterwards. And if you were on the flight, you would’ve known he wasn’t confused before the removal. I would’ve been concerned about his head injury and whether or not he was having bleeding in his brain from it.
The only good thing about this situation, is that you are right, it forces us to think about what we would have done. I think if I was a passenger, I would have stayed and gone to my destination. Now if I see something like this again, I’ve decided that I will protest by refusing to fly with them. Yes, that would probably mean having to pay for an expensive last-minute ticket to wherever I was going, but it would be worth it.
I was at first totally on the doctor side as he seemed to be a victim.. Not totally, after I read more.. I agreed “No one should be treated this way” but most of the people look at one side. What if they are an employee of United, if they are one of the crew member who was assigned the task to work on another flight that an airline itself risk of cancelling a flight due not enough crew member and now maybe from one person who won’t give up his seat. If I am Dr.Dao, I would ask why and for all the reason in the world as being a doctor who should care for others well being. I would think about people who may be emergency in another flight and I would let go my seat for the flight crew. And if Dr.
Dao really can’t let go his seat because he needed to go home as he cried in a video..I would not just recording a video but I would stand up and volunteer myself to get of the plane. At the end of this..I still agreed ‘no one should be treated this way”, but now that Dr.Dao and his family is taking advantage of a media showers to get a millions bucks from a lawsuit against a company (Thanks for those who posted a video) I can’t help not feeling pity on him.
Everybody jumps to criticize Dao for not wanting to give up his seat and go home. If the airline screwed up their employee schedule then why is it the passengers problem? There are a lot of other airlines out there, why didn’t United book their crew on a different airline and pay the money for the flights so that their crew was where they needed to be the next morning? This would have been a small write off and the paying passengers, like Dao, that showed up for their flight would not have been disturbed. United needs to stop throwing their ‘power’ around and treat people with respect.
I have been wondering about the lack of engagement of the other passengers since the event. This sort of blind obedience is frightening, and the bystander behavior looks like Genovese Syndrome. When the government gives prodigious power to corporations, they have the right to abuse their consumers. Atrocities are allowed to happen by those that stand by and say nothing (or in this case weakly protest).
I strongly concur no one should be treated in that manner. However, I may have erred on side of caution, although itmay sound selfish, but I feel that I can voice my displeasure or complaint once the matter was resolved.
My rationale is that in these days of terrorism, we may not have the full story upfront the reason for his being removed. It is plausible that they were using the overbooking as a cover story to remove a passenger rather than claiming a criminal intent. Having said that, I can see many passengers, and I probably would have as well, spoken up saying what are you doing…stop…that’s not necessary… I do believe there were some passengers saying that they would offer up their seat but they were disregarded at that point. I also believed that at least half of the aircraft disembarked in anger and they ended up asking everyone to deplane and was later put on the plane again three hours later.
Not making excuses for anyone, I think it became a matter that too many hands got into the pot…United Airlines, Republic Airlines, Airport Security, Police, and so forth got involved. Another question is if the bumping was made necessary to fly another crew…and they were facing resistance, why didn’t they put them on another flight where there may be volunteers or complaint non-volunteers be more readily available? Again…it’s easy for us to do Monday Quarterbacking as we weren’t there in person.
@Matthew, do you know if his wife got off the flight as the third passenger or not? I’ve read conflicting reports. One I read just said she was sitting one row behind and across the aisle and followed him off the plane. Who was David Dao speaking to before he was dragged off?
if i were to travel alone, no hurry to get back home til the next day, sympathy to Dr. Dao’s predicament, and consider to give up seat for him, but felt that a $800 voucher is not worth all the inconveniences, would have thought to ask that United to consider to offer a higher comp; may never hurt to ask…
if United were to say no, i’ll be honest here that i wouldn’t give up a seat.
but probably too late, as united can’t fly with Dr Dao’s bleeding & injury
Am I the only one that thinks this type of non-involvement is something new, because it’s not, it’s been around for awhile. When did we become a society of ‘help thy neighbor’ to a cold, callous, fearful, trembling bunch of POLITICALLY CORRECT obedient lemmings?? One guy a row or two ahead of Dr. Dao was stone faced looking forward like absolutely nothing was happening around him. He mights as well have been sitting there reading a magazine. Another did the same when Dr. Dao was in a frantic muttering state running toward the back of the plane. Back to your question – what would I have done?, probably at least loudly protested – verbalized like those two women did…..because I’m pretty sure from the video that the thug/ bouncer/ caveman/ guerrilla that dragged him off would have taken a wide hard swing at anyone else in his way.
I can’t wait till this goes into a courtroom and as an aside, I don’t think Oscar Munoz or other UA employees doing S.O.P. should take the heat for another airline – REPUBLIC UAX – where is that CEO ?? or the animal that called himself a policy or security person ???
Additional comment to my post – what I mean is give us the names of the Republic CEO (though he is found if googled) and the name of the “cop” that did all this damage.
Thanks for writing this, it is such an interesting psychological question. As soon as I saw the story on tv I thought, uh oh, if I was on that flight I would have stood up and blocked the security people dragging that guy along. I would have said, “guys, you’ve taken this too far. I can’t sit and watch you injure this man. You need to stop and think”. I suffer from the reverse of bystander syndrome, which is stick-your-neck-out syndrome. I told my husband, who said, “what if they had been removing a terrorist?” This is probably why everyone was so passive. The whole terrorist thing immobilised them. I pointed out that he obviously was being removed for the company’s convenience, not for any terrorist risk – the announcements would already have made that clear.
I’m Australian. I can’t imagine Australians sitting through that particular episode. Australians don’t take kindly to abuse of authority and we are a stroppy lot. But, who knows? Until I am there – or my countryfolk are the ones flying the plane – we just don’t know. A psychological quandry indeed.
While I was apalled by how Dr. Dao was treated, let’s remember two things:
First, few folks can afford to lose an entire work day. If I take any flight but the last flight of the day, I’s because being at work early the next day is important to me.
Second, and more importantly, even though it was appropriate for Dr. Dao to make his removal difficult, I would have been a third party. My physical interference on his behalf would have constituted an open and shut felony on my part – interfering with the operation of an aircraft. It’s one thing to engage in civil disobedience and get arrested for it, but when anything happens on an aircraft, the Feds have a cell waiting for you at Leavenworth.
Uh..no.They would have been interfering maybe with LEO’s if they had tried to protect Dr. Dao. AFAIK the Cabin Crew or Pilots did not try to assist the Cops. So they would likely not wind up at Leavenworth. But to be honest,it would have been risky to try to help Dr Dao. But at any event,United Airlines’ good name is forever smeared with the innocent blood of Dr. Dao. Their reputation is in the kitty litter pan now. And Oscar Munoz and the other airline CEOs were told by some Congressional subcommittee that if they don’t treat their passengers right willingly, the Feds will force them to. And at least it wound up on video, and it spread across the country and world like a full fledged conflagration. Like fire, Hellfire.
The Airlines have used 9/11 and security as a reason to mistreat Air Travelers for much too long. Our civil rights need not fall flat when we board an airliner,sit down,and put our seatbelts on.
I’m sorry if this sounded preachy. The Captain does have the last word. But our civil rights need remain in action
Bumping and overbooking must cease
Uh..no.They would have been interfering maybe with LEO’s if they had tried to protect Dr. Dao. AFAIK the Cabin Crew or Pilots did not try to assist the Cops. So they would likely not wind up at Leavenworth. But to be honest,it would have been risky to try to help Dr Dao. But at any event,United Airlines’ good name is forever smeared with the innocent blood of Dr. Dao. Their reputation is in the kitty litter pan now. And Oscar Munoz and the other airline CEOs were told by some Congressional subcommittee that if they don’t treat their passengers right willingly, the Feds will force them to. And at least it wound up on video, and it spread across the country and world like a full fledged conflagration. Like fire, Hellfire.
The Airlines have used 9/11 and security as a reason to mistreat Air Travelers for much too long. Our civil rights need not fall flat when we board an airliner,sit down,and put our seatbelts on.
I’m sorry if this sounded preachy. The Captain does have the last word. But our civil rights need remain in action
Bumping and overbooking must ceaseSorry, I needed to get this off my chest.
Sorry if I double posted!By the way I always am a good law abiding American, I just think it was awful what those LEO’s did to Dao. He had a right to his seat!