UPDATE: Ex-flight attendant Charlene Carter won her lawsuit and was awarded $5.3 million by a North Texas jury. The jury found the Transport Workers Union Local 556 violated her rights as a worker to advocate against her union.
Southwest must now pay $4.15 million in back pay (as well as pain and emotional suffering) while her union must pay her $1.15 million.
A Southwest Airlines flight attendant has been fired for “harassing” her co-worker by challenging her position on abortion through the use of incendiary images.
Southwest Airlines Flight Attendant Fired For Anti-Abortion Facebook Messages
Charlene Carter was a Southwest Airlines flight attendant. She did not like that her union president, Audrey Stone, participated in a pro-choice rally with other colleagues in 2017 “with signs identifying their union affiliation.” So she let her know via Facebook. And she used graphic, gruesome images and video of aborted fetuses to make her point. This took place over five private messages. Carter also added commentary, including:
This is what you supported during your Paid Leave with others at the Women’s MARCH in DC….You truly are Despicable in so many ways…by the way the RECALL is going to Happen and you are limited in the days you will be living off of all the [Southwest Airlines Flight Attendants]..cant wait to see you back on line.
…
Wonder how this will be coded in the LM2 Financials…cause I know we paid for this along with your Despicable Party you hosted for signing the Contract….The RECALL [of the Local 556 Executive Board] is going to Happen we are even getting more signatures due to other [flight attendants] finding out what you guys do with our MONEY!!! Can’t wait for you to have to be just a regular flight attendant again and not stealing from our DUES for things like this!
…
Did you know this….Hmmmm seems a little counter productive don’t you think….you are nothing but a SHEEP in Wolves Clothing or you are just so uneducated that you have not clue who or what you were marching for! Either way you should not be using our DUES to have Marched in this despicable show of TRASH!
Stone wrote Carter back, telling her to contract her Congressional legislators if she wanted change in public policy. Carter responded, stating:
First off I do not want your Propaganda coming to my inbox…that being said I Support the RIGHT TO WORK Organization 100% ABOVE what I have to pay you all in DUES! YOU and TWU-AFL-CIO do not Speak For Me or over half of our work group…We have a RECALL right now that we want adhered to with over the 50+ 1% and growing. WE WANT YOU all GONE!!!!!
P.S. Just sent The RIGHT TO WORK more money to fight this…. YOU all DISGUST ME!!!!! OH and by the WAY I and so many other of our FAs VOTED FOR TRUMP….so shove that in your Propaganda MACHINE!
Stone reported Carter for harassment and Southwest fired her, after “telling her she cannot make a political statement while at work and cannot post ideological views on a personal Facebook page with a connection to the workplace.” Southwest added that Stone felt “harassed by the images and the statement sent in the messages.”
Flight Attendant Now Suing Union + Southwest
Now Carter is suing for retaliation, illegal termination, and discrimination under Title VII on the basis of her religious beliefs. The case is pending, but a court has dismissed Southwest’s motion for summary judgment (a request to dismiss the case for failing to state a claim upon which relief can be granted).
Note that at one point Southwest offered to reinstate Carter (ironically, after the union that Carter decried went to bat for her). Carter refused to be muzzled as part of a re-entry package and continued with arbitration, where her termination was upheld. The lawsuit followed.
No matter your position on abortion, there should be some empathy for Carter’s convictions concerning what she deems the protection of unborn life.
The way the Vietnam and Iraq wars were protested was by showing the gruesome reality of the death and carnage such conflicts perpetuated. One way violence against people of color is protested is to show the gruesome images of police abuse, like a grown man gasping for breath and calling for his mother while being murdered by a cop taking a knee on him.
That’s not so much to make an equivalency argument as it is to note the veracity of using shocking images and video to further an argument.
For someone in the pro-life camp, the whole “no one is forcing you to have an abortion” argument rings about as hollow as “nobody is forcing you to have a slave.” If you believe that a fetus is a vulnerable human life worthy of protection, then the idea that you can just leave it to the conscience of each person is not compatible with that viewpoint: a fetus is either human life worthy of protection or not…it cannot be that it is for some and not for others.
No one likes to be confronted with something gruesome, especially if it questions their worldview. And don’t think for one moment I am condoning workplace harassment. There is a time and place for these issues and badgering a colleague is not constructive, even if such discourse was invited by Stone’s choice not only to attend a pro-choice rally in her own capacity, but under the union banner.
Southwest Airlines Abortion Lawsuit: An Additional Legal Twist
Carter is being represented pro bono by Matthew Gilliam of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation. Southwest now wants him removed as counsel because it claims that he tried to intimate Stone by serving her personally (versus the union) and because the process server was carrying a holstered gun on his belt (in New Mexico, an open carry state). Southwest also claims Gilliam obtained access to internal proprietary information to pinpoint which hotel Stone was staying out so she could be served.
Opposing Southwest’s motion, Gilliam said:
“Southwest’s emergency motion seeks to deprive plaintiff Charlene Carter of her chosen counsel and punish her attorney based on nothing more than wild assertions and rank speculation.”
Gilliam claims information about Stone’s whereabouts in order to effectuate service of process was supplied on an unsolicited basis by two independent sources.
CONCLUSION
It is surprising this issue was not handled within the union versus involving Southwest. I don’t find the images or messages particularly harassing, though her poor proofreading make me look like Emily Post. It is hardly surprising why a union president would march in the 2017 Women’s March when she represents so many women who view protecting their privacy from government invasion akin to prohibiting others from enslaving them. But is is also not surprising that not everyone was onboard.
You can read a preliminary ruling on the case here. View from the Wing offered his take here.
What are your thoughts on this case? Is this a cut and dry example of impermissible harassment or the silencing of a legally protected minority opinion?
Carter sounds like a right and proper a**hole and I hope she loses.
I guess this article is your way of coming out as anti-abortion?
Not exactly. I’d encourage those in the pro-life camp to work harder at providing women who feel backed against a wall with viable alternatives to abortion. Too often, it seems, that the care for human life stops at birth, and that hypocrisy is no way to win hearts and minds. Much better to convince people through logic, reason, and actual help than force them through invasive laws…
As for your first point, are you okay with an employer firing a employee for supporting BLM or protesting the Iraq war?
What they need to do is provide better sex education and access to contraceptives in the first place. Sex education is appalling in way too many places in this country, and it leads to this desperation. That’s part of a pragmatic solution if you want to stop abortions.
Agreed. I also think that starts at home. Too many parents leave it to the schools and they should not.
Well put. Though I am pro-choice, I was also adopted. Abortion wasn’t legal when I was conceived but they did occur. Pro-lifers should be contributing to adoption providers and offering financial support to those agencies which in turn should be providing care to women in a “situation”. Some people think if it’s not their “natural child” then it’s not really “theirs”. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Rant over.
Your disingenuous use of the term “pro-life” when in fact it is anti-choice and anti-legally sanctioned medical procedure not subject to conversation by those other than a woman and her medical professional, is completely unacceptable. You are certainly entitled to your position and words, but like the questionable words and actions of the the dismissed flight attendant, I don’t think it belongs on this industry business page.
That said, your page, your rules, of course. I’m making the suggestion that you keep your abortion views off of here in the interest of keeping the focus where it belongs. And also, quite selfishly, I usually enjoy reading your work and it’s a deal-breaker for me. Thanks for considering my view here.
You’re a baby killer if you support abortion.
Also Ableton is used primarily to kill black children.
Those who advocated for abortion early on did it because of their hated of blacks. No better than the Nazis
So much nonsense.
@Aaron
Na it’s the truth.
Abortion is black genocide. Democrats love killing blacks it’s been a part of their racist history since the start.
You’re a child molester since you support Boebert and Garth
“Abortion is black genocide. Democrats love killing blacks it’s been a part of their racist history since the start.”
Even more nonsense.
Also, as if you care or ever cared about Black people.
Matthew, you said, “I’d encourage those in the pro-life camp to work harder at providing women who feel backed against a wall with viable alternatives to abortion.” We have done that already for decades with Crisis Pregnancy Centers, non-profit resource clinics for women in crisis pregnancies! Women are provided free EPT’s, medical care, counseling, and clothing and supplies. The woman is taken care of because that’s how to save her baby. Many volunteers are post-abortive women with regrets, who want to help other women avoid their mistakes. It’s untrue that pro-lifers are only pro-birth.
Agreed, these are all good things.
I admire and respect Miss Carter for standing against the abortion issue.
I can not agree with a union pushing their opinion for abortion by using funds designated for the flight attendant who pay these died. I also thank the Lord for attorneys like Matthew who are willing to step in and represent a woman that has been given a gag order from her union and employer which violates her freedom to believe and stand against this horrific cause.
I know the Lord will defend Miss Carter. All I can say is what would you do ? I would do what Charlene did. This is wrong and it is a very wrong to fire her for voicing her belief. Thank God there are still brave women and men that will defend life.
I don’t think it’s right that anyone can silence a person and at the same time push their own agenda. Have we become a communist country? This is America!
Lynn deLambarri
I disagree,
She will win!
She is quite a woman to stand up to all of you that see no wrong in killing children.
When you stand before God some day , you will have to give an account .
And you will have to tell God why you feel 10 year old rape victims should be forced to give birth. Then God will send you to hell because there is no good reason
its not the babies fault it was made via rape.
You mean the fetus. It isn’t a baby until it is born.
A person’s life, rights and importance derive from his or her humanity, not from what anyone else thinks. Saying “I am important, but you are a nonperson” opens the philosophical door to slavery, eugenics and a host of unspeakable ills.
She won the lawsuit and killing babies is an ahole move.
Abortion is healthcare and has nothing to do with killing babies. I hope she loses in the end.
I’m not a zealot on either side of this debate, but dismissing this as “healthcare” is so immature and unhelpful. This is a complex issue, hence the divided public opinion and intense national debate for decades.
If this is about the Women’s March that happened the day after the president’s inauguration, that was NOT just a pro-abortion march. So I think that Carter was a little ridiculous to go after the union president on her anti-abortion grounds. That’s a bit much.
That said, I was here in DC for the women’s march. Not sure I’m onboard with somebody going on the union dime and marching (if that’s what she did?) She probably should have just gone and marched in an individual capacity.
Either way, assuming it was the women’s march (which was not a pro abortion rally), then I think the fligth attendant Carter’s e-mails were VERY out of line and this think could have been handled in a more appropriate manner.
There is no equivalency in the comparison of the pro-choice/pro-life debate with slavery, ending the Vietnam war, or police brutality no matter how you spin it.
The bottom line is, no one in their right mind wants an abortion. Abortion is a medical procedure and entails risk to maternal health. Abortion can leave psychological scars on the woman, her partner, her family and friends.
Abortion is a last resort in the absence of viable alternatives. Until improvements in education, accessibility of women’s health and contraception, or post-birth solutions such as community support systems and adoption, the law must not make it harder for someone to make the difficult choice to abort.
To compare it with slave ownership is disingenuous. The people who owned slaves wanted to own slaves for selfish financial benefit.
A medical procedure? Well I guess the death penalty is just a medical procedure too. One can argue at what point life begins: is it conception? Is it when a heart beat is detected? Is it the moment of birth? Reasonable people can disagree (or at least they used to be able to), but if a child is aborted after someone considers life to have started, that person is going to view it as murder. Personally I think the practice of partial birth abortion is absolutely disgusting and probably murder, and should absolutely not be allowed, but abortion within the first month or so is not so abhorrent…but that still leaves a big grey area in my mind about what should be allowed and shouldn’t.
In any case, the union has no business spending member dues on political causes that have absolutely nothing to do with their work.
This conversation is actually Verdi g of course, but FYI there really is no medical term called “partial birth abortion “. It was a term created by anti abortion activists. It’s not a recognized term or procedure used in any medical text book, operating room, or by medical professionals.
You’ll notice I refrained from using charged terms like “pro-life” or “anti-choice” in my post in order to present the issue more neutrally, but whether called intact dilation and extraction or partial birth abortion, the procedure is the same. Do you favor a law similar to what New York recently passed that absolutely protects the right of the mother to have an abortion up until birth?
You really should educate yourself on who is having a pregnancy termination in the third trimester. It isn’t women who just changed their mind or just couldn’t get around to it… It’s women with nonviable pregnancies who face health consequences for carrying the pregnancy forward… They don’t just remove a normal healthy baby and bash its head in, as the lunatics will suggest… You just became a father again. If the doctor had told your wife that she could die if the pregnancy continued, I find it hard to believe that you would espouse the same belief. You’d be checking your options, making the right decision for your family. In the same situation, you and all the other anti-abortiin folks would justify it to yourselves by saying that your situation is “different”. Guess what? It isn’t
I don’t understand why you continue to presuppose what I believe or assume that I don’t know why most third trimester abortions occur. I’ve wrestled over this issue for 15 years and invested so much time into understanding it. I’m not making the arguments you think I am. And to answer your question, by all means, as long my wife was onboard, I would seek to terminate a baby in the womb if it threatened the life of my wife. That is self-defense.
I will note that “most women seeking later terminations are not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment.” I also note the difference between an abortion after week 20 and a very late term abortion.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1363/4521013
So you won’t mind financially supporting families which have kids they don’t want / can’t afford. Oh right. Then you’ll suddenly turn libertarian. Trumpian hypocrisy once more.
The state already supports children born to parents (all too often single parents) who cannot adequately support them. Eliminating that support would remove an incentive to have such children.
Well , there is a solution… stay celibate until your married or adopt the child out.
There’s many families that are not as lucky to have a child. They pay thousands to adopt out of the country .
Yea, tell 10 year old rape victims to remain celibate. Wait until God tells you that you were wrong to be pro-child pregnancy and sends you to hell. Boy will your face be red
How about men get reversible vasectomies instead?
Abortion being a medical procedure is like enslaving every black person in America and calling it a reparative employment structure.
Abortion is the murder of babies.
It’s murder ( legalized) the solution don’t give your self to that life style and than it won’t happen. It’s not the child’s fault. Many want to adopt and would love to have a child. They have made it convenient so that a woman can drop the child off at a hospital and I believe a fire Dept..
If only that 10 year old didn’t live such a promiscuous lifestyle, right? Why do you want 10 year olds to be forced to have babies?
It’s not murder. You can’t kill something that hasn’t been born.
So much nonsense.
Ableton is so much worse than anything you’ve listed. Especially since it’s used as black genocide.
“Especially since it’s used as black genocide”
What a ridiculous, asinine comment.
Also stop pretending you care about black people.
Your article seems to be defending Carter which I think is wrong. The FA was not fired simply for her viewpoints but instead where and how she expressed those viewpoints.
The messages Carter posted about Stone were completely inappropriate and disrespectful. Would you like to be called a “propaganda machine”? How don’t you consider this harassment? Would you like to receive rude messages with words like “disgust” in all caps? I get she was angry, however, there was a better way of handling this.
This is also not some friend or relative she is having a debate with. This is a co-worker. It is completely unprofessional to send these messages or photos to people you work with.
If Carter was respectful, I would share some empathy even though I lean pro-choice (mainly because pro-life laws don’t really prevent abortions and instead lead to unsafe abortions). However, in this case she deserved to be terminated.
Whatever her pet issue, I don’t see the language as out of bounds when directed toward a peer leader. That’s not the way I talk to people, but I see her genuine passion, which someone should be able to overlook in an elected position representing a constituency with a wide range of views.
With that argument it seems like Donald Trump is passionate about everything.
Honestly, one big takeaway from high school English class is that you have multiple ways to transmit a message. If you are passionate, you can use certain words to create a tone. But a mix of all caps and name-calling is just plain childish. Sending inappropriate photos just makes things worse. I think your pro-life views and current political tensions are impacting your perspective this time. This is a clear case of workplace harassment.
Yep, Neil gets it, Matthew completely misses it. Leave out all the specifics about the issue at hand, Carter comes off as completely unhinged, and over-the-top unprofessional. It’s got nothing to do with the specific issue, and everything about inappropriate decorum. No matter what the specific issue was, that kind of rhetoric and communication style is completely inappropriate and HR-worthy in any business. Blinded by her vitriol, she was just spewing hate.
+1
Matthew is choosing to miss your point since he’s way too bright to just misunderstand. As a result, he chooses to rationalize his perspective. I’d hoped for better, since no sane woman has an abortion for fun, but he’s entitled to his opinion. It doesn’t matter where your stance on the issue lies, Carter was fired for being deranged not for holding an opinion.
Not according to Matt… “I don’t find the images or messages particularly harassing”… Your BS anti-abortion propaganda is misleading as well. The problem with wanting us to believe that the anti-abortion (yeah, let’s not let their branding exercise as “pro-life” work) is really about protecting vulnerable lives is that these are the same individuals preventing funding for contraception or health care/support for these children once they are born. Your tone is entirely too sympathetic towards these American “Christian” Taliban. I put it in quotes bc there’s absolutely nothing Christian about being anti-abortion. Abortion existed in the time of Christ, yet he makes no mention of it. The Bible says a whole lot about divorce but none of these fundies have a problem with that. Along with your recent description of the “kind” Ted Cruz, I guess you’re showing your true colors. It’s a shame because your content is usually pretty good
Yeah, all that, too.
Seems he’ll do anything to stir the pot and get clicks, including being intellectually dishonest.
@MaKR: Didn’t I point out that hypocrisy long before your comment? I’m not sure it makes the case against abortion any weaker from a moral position for one who holds that view (one does not depend upon the other), but from a practical matter it certainly does. I’d also suggest that the failure to comment on something does not indicate tacit approval. Also, opposition to abortion and the death penalty can be on humanistic grounds without invoking any deity, let alone a Christian understanding of one.
Yes but you never hear of any religious or humanistic justification for abortion except for a Christian one… And the Venn diagram between those against abortion yet for the death penalty is a lot closer to a simple circle than the opposite
Dick, I strongly disagree with you here. You think someone with 20 years of seniority and an otherwise unblemished record should be fired over the four Facebook private messages I shared? I don’t. She’s a crackpot right winger, that’s clear. She’s not respectful and ultimately not very constructive in trotting out tired tropes about her political enemies or causes she disagrees with. But come on, it seems pretty intellectually dishonest to claim this isn’t about the specific issues she was raising, especially because that is what Southwest focused on when it fired her (attacking unions and abortion in a public forum).
Yes, she should. Because she f’d up big time. Sending colleagues pics of disgusting photos is harassment.
Maybe her strongly-held belief on when life begins means that she felt obligated to challenge those union leaders with some disturbing pictures when they were advocating for what she viewed as immoral…
Carter has more courage to do the right thing and stand up for an innocent child . Courageous girl. She right.
Who’s standing up for 10 year old rape victims? Not you
But it was OK for union leadership to express their viewpoints about pro-choice at a rally, where they clearly identified themselves as linked to the Union and Southwest?
Granted, the FA used some insults that were probably not wise, but talk like that within the union is I’m sure a daily occurrence. This is such a transparently fake claim of harassment. Her real reason for termination was disagreeing politically.
The Bible is the written word of God.
You write your own Bible but Gods word will stand over what a persons views are .
Jesus said: I knew you I formed you in your mothers womb. He also said There are seven things God hate. One is taking the life of the innocent . There is a way that seems right to a man but God said that way leads to destruction.
All I can tell you is that we are going to stand before God one day. Who will you honor? Self or God?
What id Jesus have to say about rape victims becoming pregnant by the person who raped them?
Great post as always Matthew. I truly respect how you take a rational approach to this kind of news.
And I thought I had a dry sense of humor.
I wasn’t joking.
Oh.
Oh.
Thanks Gabriel.
Life was much better before social media. Seriously, you now cannot separate your personal life from your work. People are always watching and judging you. I just stay away from social media and if I feel I need to make a comment based on my personal opinion I do that in person to the person I want to get the message to.
“telling her she cannot make a political statement while at work and cannot post ideological views on a personal Facebook page with a connection to the workplace.”
Correction: You cannot make a political statement at work or post ideological views on FB if they contradict the tenets of the far left. Lefist politcal statements at work are not only tolerated, but encouraged and championed in most companies. This is the world we live in today, a leftist fascism.
I would defend this FA had she been the pro-choice one. Her language does not rise to cause for termination, as eye-rolling-in-your-face as it was. Southwest should not have been involved with this squabble within the union.
Thank you Mr Klint,
It’s not only about abortion. It’s about our freedom. Now we are seeing BLM , killing , stealing, and destroying cities.
I’ve noticed that the airlines are now allowing BKM pins that they provide to the crews to wear on board. Isn’t this just a little about politics?
Her cause is worthy this organization is everything but worthy.
Don’t misunderstand . I have many black friends. I stand with them on true issues Of persecution but I can’t in good conscience stand with an organization that is using black people to win an election and create fear and destruction.
My point being is that they can’t push their agenda but she can not!
Thanks you for helping her. God sees everything and He will bless you. You have courage just like Charlene has.
What I meant was . They can enforce their agenda but others can’t reject what they say. A little one sided don’t you think?
I am shocked at some of these posts . Has everyone lost their minds? Abortion is legalized murder.
I stand with Charlene Carter .
You stand with the rapist that impregnated a 10 year old. Maybe next time it’ll be a 5 year old. Then you can really celebrate
“Now we are seeing BLM , killing , stealing, and destroying cities.”
Really?
“Don’t misunderstand . I have many black friends. I stand with them on true issues Of persecution but I can’t in good conscience stand with an organization that is using black people to win an election and create fear and destruction.”
Statements like that usually are not true, they tend to be made by anonymous alt-right and racists online as a way to justify their own racist and bigoted comments online.
Facism, coming from a Trump Worshipper…what a joke.
As always, enjoy being on the wrong side of history…see you at the polls!
TDS-addled UA-NYC doesn’t understand that he sides with the totalitarians. Even the non-woke liberals see the Maoists on the left for what they are.
https://www.cato.org/publications/survey-reports/poll-62-americans-say-they-have-political-views-theyre-afraid-share
These trumpers think telling you not to be an A-hole or wear a mask in a pandemic is fascism, but trying to overturn elections is just plain old democracy.
Awww. Ickle Trumpists has ignore their Dear Leaders fascist tendencies. Because they hate everyone who Dear Leader hates. @WR2
You are right.
We live in a world that only the liberal views are accepted. It just shows us how far we have slipped away from a Godly society. Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord. If we want His blessings He must be listened to .
This is still America . I choose freedom and liberty and true justice. And justice for all.
God says , Be renewed in the spirit of your mind .He said if you love me , you will keep my word. The choice is yours! I choose Jesus.
Some day God will judge and He will say to some “ Go away from me I never knew you”
God is Holy. His word Trumps the opinions and choices of all.
These people that choose to take the life of a child have no fear of God and no respect for life.
You are right this is America, which is a secular nation not a Christian one. Freedom of religion also includes freedom FROM religion. It’s too bad so many white Christian nationalists are too stupid and intolerant to understand that.
That said, I always find it funny when they get their panties in a twist about “sharia law” when they all would impose their own Christian version on us if they could.
Let me guess, you are also pro death penalty
Abortion is a wedge issue. Nobody is undecided and there’s little value in debating its merits online.
I do; however, believe that sending pictures of fetuses that have been aborted to attempt to further your point is incendiary. Seeing innocent protestors beaten is disturbing, as are war photos, but there’s a reason dead bodies are covered up in traffic wrecks and snuff films are illegal. There’s a line, and I think showing aborted fetuses to a co-worker crosses it.
There was no dialogue in this case. Ms. Carter started a conversation that was clearly unwanted. Ms. Stone attempted to diffuse the situation, and Ms. Carter wouldn’t accept it.
What does abortion have to do with this? The FA was terminated because she sent offensive material to another coworker. If the FA wants to complain about the pro-choice involvement, she can certainly make the statement to the union and the company in a non-graphic way. Targeting a specific individual and sending videos or images that would be construed as offensive is something that invites corporate action.
If an employee sent gay porn or other similarly offensive material to a conservative Christian employee because their organization is pro-Christian (like Hobby Lobby), I suspect that sender would be disciplined or terminated. So what’s the defense of the FA’s action here?
Who determines what is offensive?
The people that sign your checks.
And you’re okay with it being communicated and enforced in a selective way?
You can’t seriously think that this woman’s behavior wasn’t a fireable offense (or at least meriting a warning). If I received an e-mail from a colleague with that unhinged tone, I would have forwarded it immediately to HR demanding the company intervene. I try not to talk politics at work, but if it comes up with someone and we disagree, it should be expected that both of us remain civil. I wouldn’t be surprised if this wasn’t the first time the woman has behaved unprofessionally either.
Also, like it or not, abortion is very much an employment issue and it shouldn’t be controversial for someone who’s job is to advocate for her fellow flight attendants to advocate for them to have the freedom to make their own choices about their reproductive health and their careers.
If you have to ask that, then perhaps you haven’t been around the corporate workplace much… For reference, most organizations would consider offensive content to include: content that is defamatory, obscene, pornographic, gratuitously violent or otherwise offensive… technically, I presume that dead fetuses/babies/humans would fall under obscene or gratuitously violent. In all seriousness, that definition is up to the legal and HR team, and if you are employed by that company, you agree to all the stipulations and definitions in your employee handbook and policies.
You can argue the definition of offensive all you want; in this case, the employer, Southwest Airlines, deemed it offensive. I’m presuming in court, that definition would also hold water. The fact one employee was harassing another with offensive content seems to give it grounds for dismissal.
Hobby Lobby sued and was able to get the Supreme Court to agree they don’t need to contribute to woman’s contraception based on their beliefs. Those employees that wanted contraception covered are basically told to pound sand. Why can’t Southwest Airlines support a pro-choice position? More importantly, what gives the FA in question the right to harass another employee due to difference of opinion?
Carter attacked Stone. She threatened her, accused her of corruption and created a hostile work environment. That is all. Mr. Klint, either you ignored the facts for clickbait’s sake or I don’t know what…
Try again. That’s not what Southwest gave as its reason for firing her…
Personally, I believe the FA was completely out of line & definitely should have been fired. It was VERY much harassment. Spewing hate to an individual with a different opinion, to me, is completely NOT OKAY within the confines of work. We all have our beliefs & opinions but it is not our place to force them on our co-workers (or friends / family either for that matter …but a different story).
But don’t you see that is exactly what the FA felt she was subjected to when her union leader voiced support for causes she opposed under the supposedly-inclusive union banner?
The union leader spoke at an event that was addressed to the public; she did not single out a specific individual. The FA that sent those videos/images targeted that specific union leader… Was that FA so triggered and such a snowflake that she had to take it out on an individual? Her only recourse was to send inappropriate videos and images?
There are ways for her to raise her concerns; form an employee group, petition the organization, etc. But she chose to harass an individual. That person then filed a complaint and the company chose to take disciplinary action… That’s how these things work… It’s not about politics or religion, it’s about addressing valid harassment claims before the company can be found liable for inaction.
Exactly.
Abortion is an employment issue, it effects the careers of women full stop. It’s completely relevant to the union leader role. Anti-abortion is a personal and often faith-based issue that has no place in the work place.
not wanting to kill babies is not a “faith-based” issue.
Notice how I didn’t say only faith-based. Also to the extent religious freedom for anyone but Christians still matters in this country, most practicing Jewish people do not believe life begins at birth, so all of these new abortion bans are religiously discriminatory.
Either way, the main point is that if you don’t want to get an abortion, don’t get one. Until then, you don’t have any right to impose your personal beliefs on anyone else. If we knew for a fact life actually began at conception this would be a different conversation. There’s no definitive point where life begins before a baby is actually born, so you don’t get to impose your own theories on the subject onto other people. The only people that should matter when deciding to get an abortion are the pregnant women and her medical providers.
Wins lawsuit? Judge Scholer denied in part some claims on the Motion to Dismiss. I’ll say at least both sides have a very non-partisan Judge. Scholer was nominated by both Obama and Trump.
Geez!! I was getting my popcorn ready but already missed half of the movie. LOL!!
I’d ask to leave the aircraft if I knew these two women were working the flight. Be horrible and in an emergency? Who knows how they would react. They both need to stay home.
Fact: pro lifers are happy when 10 year old rape victims have to carry their rapists babies
Pro-baby killers are happy when 20 million black babies are aborted because behind closed doors they are massive racists.
Your scenario is false, mine is true. The Indiana attorney General also published the doctors name so people like you can shoot him or her in the grocery store or at a parade, which is what people like you do.
Democrats were pro-slavery and pro-Jim Crow. Democrats waged the War on Poverty, destroying black families. Blacks comprise a little over 13% of the US population but have 38% of all abortions. Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist who supported sterilizing those deemed “unfit” to reproduce. Somehow these sterilization programs disproportionately affected black and brown “people with a capacity for pregnancy.” Even the president of Planned Parenthood admits that Sanger is “problematic.”
A lot of the trigger laws restricting abortion were written without the expectation that they would ever go into effect, so they could very well be poorly written. That being said, the story of the 10-year-old girl who was raped is horrible, but the product of the rape is also an innocent. Need I remind you that the rapist is an illegal alien from Guatemala? Sending their best, eh? Doctors’ names? Did he put out bounties for the locations of Supreme Court justices who have had credible threats made against their lives?
You imply that liberals love black folx and conservatives hate them. Why is it that black folx keep dying in blue cities? Why do they keep suffering under liberal government policies? Why did the Bad Orange Man gain support among all sorts of minority groups? Are you going to decry Hispanics as white supremacists when Democrats get obliterated this November? It would seem the Great Replacement is backfiring on you. The dream of the Great Reset is still alive, though, comrade. Keep your head up. Europe can still freeze and starve this winter!
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/17/opinion/planned-parenthood-margaret-sanger.html
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/state-indicator/abortions-by-race/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D
Democrats were pro-slavery and pro-Jim Crow. Democrats waged the War on Poverty, destroying black families. Blacks comprise a little over 13% of the US population but have 38% of all abortions. Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist who supported sterilizing those deemed “unfit” to reproduce. Somehow these sterilization programs disproportionately affected black and brown “people with a capacity for pregnancy.” Even the president of Planned Parenthood admits that Sanger is “problematic.”
A lot of the trigger laws restricting abortion were written without the expectation that they would ever go into effect, so they could very well be poorly written. That being said, the story of the 10-year-old girl who was raped is horrible, but the product of the rape is also an innocent. Need I remind you that the rapist is an illegal alien from Guatemala? Sending their best, eh? Doctors’ names? Did he put out bounties for the locations of Supreme Court justices who have had credible threats made against their lives?
You imply that liberals love black folx and conservatives hate them. Why is it that black folx keep dying in blue cities? Why do they keep suffering under liberal government policies? Why did the Bad Orange Man gain support among all sorts of minority groups? Are you going to decry Hispanics as white supremacists when Democrats get obliterated this November? It would seem the Great Replacement is backfiring on you. The dream of the Great Reset is still alive, though, comrade. Keep your head up. Europe can still freeze and starve this winter!
Sort of misleading headline, don’t you think? She was not an abortion advocate but that is how your headline reads.
How about everyone – left and right – leaving politics at the workplace door?
When I was 20, I had a number of mentors who were 50 and above and some of the wisdom I picked up from them was “If you can’t contribute something useful to others, or even yourself, consider keeping your mouth shut.” It’s something I practice even on anonymous debate forums where I sometimes will write a whole comment out and say “Well, I don’t think this is all that great” and just delete it. There’s a reason even, or especially, the best authors had editors.
So at work, I strive to not unnecessarily alienate people particularly if I’m unlikely to change their mind or worse, even harden it. I found that changing the subject by asking for advice typically gets someone blabbing on their expertise on something and quickly forgetting what they were talking about and feeling better about themselves. (Look! I am enjoying sharing my experience and what I think is wisdom and that releases endorphins.)
Generally, it’s wise to just be amiable and cordial most of the time really particularly at family dinners, work, and shared environments such as planes. Interestingly, the safe places people discuss politics is usually with like-minded people, their friend-groups they’ve filtered, and so there’s not too much polite but spirited debate and perhaps that’s reasonable since much of the time, it just degenerates into a shouting match anyway. I do have a few forums I participate in with a wide variety of opinions and cherish them because I can engage in open, contextual debate and sharpen my wit and understanding on the issues. You don’t develop intellectual taste buds by eating at McD’s every day.
In the past, sometimes I’ve kicked people down for inappropriately arguing an offensive (to me) political viewpoint at dinner (but in a genteel fashion) and I am slowly coming to regret that. I think changing the topic in an adroit manner is in some ways, more educational because perhaps a week, month, or even a year later they realize I “shut them up” without them realizing it.
“Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.” — Winston Churchill